Joe “The Plumber’s” Open Letter to the Parents of the Victims Murdered by Elliot Rodger

Joe the Plumber meets Barack Obama (courtesy telegraph.co.uk)

The following is Joe “the Plumber” Wurzelbacher’s open letter to the parents of the victims murdered by Elliot Rodger:

I’m not talking here about the three tragic murders Rodger committed by stabbing before his driving and shooting spree; I speak now only to the families of the gunshot victims in Santa Barbara; It’s a tragedy. I am sorry you lost your child. I myself have a son and daughter and the one thing I never want to go through, is what you are going through now. But . . .

As harsh as this sounds – your dead kids don’t trump my Constitutional rights.

Richard Martinez, whose son (Christopher) was among the murdered, choked back tears at a news conference, blaming politicians the next day: “The talk about gun rights. What about Chris’ right to live?” Martinez said – and much more.

There are no critical words for a grieving father. He can say whatever he wants and blame whoever he’d like – it’s okay by me. You can’t take a step in his shoes – at least I can’t.

But the words and images of Mr. Martinez blaming “the proliferation of guns”, lobbyists, politicians, etc.; will be exploited by gun-grab extremists as are all tragedies involving gun violence and the mentally ill by the anti-Second Amendment Left.

As a father, husband and a man, it is my responsibility to protect my family. I will stand up for that right vehemently. Please believe me, as a father I share your grief and I will pray for you and your family, as I do whenever I hear about senseless tragedies such as this.

We still have the Right to Bear Arms and I intend to continue to speak out for that right, and against those who would restrict it – even in the face of this horrible incident by this sad and insane individual. I almost said “Obama Voter” but I’m waiting for it to be official.

I noticed the mainstream media have stopped the practice of immediately reporting the psycho maniac is a conservative Tea Party Republican Christian. Guess they’re sick of having to hide being wrong every time when it comes out the whacko votes Democrat?

Mr. Martinez and anyone calling for more restrictions on American’s rights need to back off and stop playing into the hands of the folks who merely capitalize on these horrific events for their own political ends.

They don’t care about your family or your dead children at all. They sound like they do, whereas I sound uncaring and like I say, harsh. Don’t be fooled – I care about your family and mine. The future of our very liberty lies in the balance of this fight.

In conclusion, I cannot begin to imagine the pain you are going through, having had your child taken away from you. However, any feelings you have toward my rights being taken away from me, lose those.

Sincerely;

Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher

PS: To the parents of Elliot Rodger’s stabbing victims: I’m very sorry for your loss. I’m sick to death every damn time I turn around and some poor soul with obvious violent mental sickness is allowed to exact this kind of pain on a family.

Elliot Rodger deserved help, yes – but your child deserved so much more. I’m very sorry and sad for you.

——-

Joe “The Plumber” Wurzelbacher crashed on the scene in 2008 when a chance run-in with then candidate Barack Obama allowed Joe to confront the soon-to-be president on his tax-and-spend Socialist philosophy. Joe is founder of JoeForAmerica.com.

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About Robert Farago

Robert Farago is the Publisher of The Truth About Guns (TTAG). He started the site to explore the ethics, morality, business, politics, culture, technology, practice, strategy, dangers and fun of guns.

97 Responses to Joe “The Plumber’s” Open Letter to the Parents of the Victims Murdered by Elliot Rodger

  1. avatarformer water walker says:

    Bravo Joe! I couldn’t say it any better.

  2. The BEST thing that the PRO-GUN world could do — is begin a MEDIA PLEDGE to *NOT* mention the shooters name, run his videos, post his picture or publish his “Manifesto”. What did the shooter want above all else? FAME. He got it.

    Whats-iz-name should have been” The Sandy Hook Shooter”

    • avatarTex300BLK says:

      ^^ This ^^ I turned off the television a couple of times this weekend because the unbelievable amount of publicity this dickhead got all weekend long.

      I would say the overwhelming majority of America cannot remembersthe names let alone the faces of the victims of this senseless violence, but everyone almost certainly remembers the name and faces of the sick individuals who perpetrated it. Shameful… is the only way to describe this.

  3. E*** R*** deserved help — he got help — THAT is the problem. Medications that turn small numbers of people from depressed to insane.

    • avatarDJ says:

      I would argue that he got help but it wasn’t the help he needed.

      He needed to be involuntarily committed. When his family thought he was such a menace to public safety that they requested law enforcement speak to him, they could have had him committed. They didn’t.

      From what I’ve read they KNEW he had serious problems and was at risk of committing violence. They could have done something about it. They went looking for him the night of the shooting – but by then it was too late.

      You guys all know I’m not very PC, so I’ll just say it – If Mr. Martinez was so worried about his kid, Mr. Martinez should have had him safely institutionalized. That’s not an easy decision to make, but that would have been the right one. His son would still be alive, as would all of his son’s victims.

      • avatarMike says:

        FYI, Martinez is the father of one of the victims, not the perp. I think you mean that Rodgers’s father should ahve had him committed.

        • avatarLarry Atchison says:

          Somebody should have put him down before this
          . This piece of garbage should have been aborted . ( at some point )

        • avatarneiowa says:

          Rodgers family should have not even BEEN in the US. British citizens with no apparently useful skills to contribute to the US economy. Why are they in the US?

          Mr Martinez – you chose to live in a free fire zone. Did you teach your child situational awareness? any selfdefense skills? did you remove yourself from stupid places?

        • avatarDJ says:

          My error.

          I’ll let the rest stand for itself. Look it up – the family knew this guy was a risk to the community, but they didn’t take action to protect both him and the community.

      • avatarprotaganis says:

        Sadly, involuntary commitment is extremely hard to accomplish. There are hoops to jump through and examinations to be done that take an inordinate amount of time. This is backlash from the habit of dealing with anyone who was “out of the norm.” being committed (sometimes for profit, sometimes for convenience) in the late 1800s to mid 1950s (roughly). As someone who’s had extended family cross over the line and commit a heinous act, I wish they had made it easier to accomplish.
        Unfortunately there’s no easy way to accomplish it without asking some very tough questions and working through some very difficult issues from the history of psychiatric treatment. Hopefully, someday, we’ll understand enough to balance these people enough that they can live a full and productive life.

      • avatarTxGal says:

        “they could have had him committed. They didn’t”

        No they could not have had him committed. He was 22 yrs. old. It would require being apponinted as his legal guardian. Getting a guardianship over an adult is a complicated process and once he was served with notice of peition filed, he would have just upped his deadline for murder and mayhem.

        • avatarGP says:

          Clayton E. Cramer at pjmedia.com has an excellent review of California’s commitment procedures. This could have been avoided.

          http://pjmedia.com/blog/california-has-enough-laws/

        • avatarDJ says:

          Good link, GP, but I disagree with one statement in the link:

          “He might have received the treatment that he needed to recognize the insanity of what he was planning.”

          Or not. Some people are just evil, and the only way to protect society from them is to lock them up. This guy definitely needed to be institutionalized. Whether he could have been helped is unknown, and, frankly, secondary to the fact that he shouldn’t have been out on the street able to carry out his homicidal fantasies.

        • avatarWilliam Burke says:

          Yes, they waited too long to do anything useful. Now let them mourn, if they are capable of it. I suspect they are merely embarrassed at the negative exposure.

    • avatarRalph says:

      Reports are that he refused to take the drugs.

      • avatardoesky2 says:

        There used to be a day when the doctors were in charge of the insane asylum instead of the patients. Evidence item #45,675 of how Leftism has degraded America.

      • avatarBob says:

        When a competent Medical Doctor has determined that a person is violently insane, if that person refuses to take his anti-psychotic drugs, then that person should be involuntarily committed. The mental hospital will force him to take his drugs, and keep him confined for the protection of society.

        The bottom line is: Society must be protected against people who are violently insane. This point is self-evident and not up for debate.

        • avatarWilliam Burke says:

          Okay, but one question: how is the prescribing “doctor” supposed to monitor his “patient” enough to know that he’s not taking his meds?
          Have you ever had a doctor who monitored his patients that closely? I know I haven’t, nor have I ever heard of one.

        • avatarBob says:

          Weekly blood analysis? Weekly meetings with the patient to verify no craziness? I don’t know, I’m not a specialist in that field.

          We need a law that makes the doctor liable for negligence in monitoring his patients who could become violent. If the family or a neighbor or a friend says the patient has stopped taking his meds, then he can and should be involuntarily committed.

          We didn’t have this problem 30 or 40 years ago, because the mental health system worked to keep violently insane people off the streets. It could work again.

          We all know the main motive for mass shootings – insanity. We know the cause – a broken mental health system. We certainly can find the solution. Why don’t we do it? Political Correctness (Progressivism?) is preventing us from accepting the facts and performing the necessary actions.

        • avatarWilliam Burke says:

          “We didn’t have this problem 30 or 40 years ago, because the mental health system worked to keep violently insane people off the streets. It could work again.”

          You are correct. Sort of. But we had a PLETHORA of John Wayne Gacys, Charles Mansons, Tex Watsons, Charles Whitmans, Green River Murderers, Zodiac Killers, Richard Ramirizes, Ted Bundys, Zodiac Killers… Jeffrey Dahmers….. Henry Lee Lucas, who confessed to literally HUNDREDS of murders… but probably lied about half of them.

          Am I making my point? Since 1969 – random starting point – we have witnessed horrific serial killings THAT ACTUALLY dwarf anything seen in this century! Mass shootings PALE before what was seen 40, 30, 20 years ago.

          WTF difference does it really make if they snapped their victims’ necks, decapitated them and put the heads in the deep freeze, chopped them and gutted them and cooked their organs and ate them (Ed Gein), or butchered drifters by the dozens (This is as far as I’m going!)

          AND WE’RE CONCERNED ABOUT people too young to study this brutal history of the second half of the twentieth century, and think a multiple SHOOTING now and then, many contrived incidents, IS AS BAD AS IT GETS?

          Stupid, STUPID, history-ignorant fools!

        • avatarNate Prentice, MSW, LCSW, CAS-PC says:

          Uh, I was doing social work back 25-30 years ago. The media hadn’t discovered the money that could be made from advertisers from lone gun shooters yet, but we’ve had them for a while. Trust me, the mental health system was doing an even more terrible job back then due to not having access to SSRIs such as Prozac, which do a great job with minimal side effects for the vast majority.

          The reason the mental health system is doing poorly is because it is incredibly underfunded. Up until the mid 1960′s, institutionalization was the main treatment. In the 60′s, community mental health centers started popping up with the advent of medications, and people were able to be treated outpatient. So, the hospitals let out their people and closed, and the community mental health centers were left to deal with them.

          Great idea, but not funded.

          Let me make this real for you. Psychiatrists are among the least paid specialists in medicine. As a social worker, myself, I just broke $40,000 dollars this year doing psychotherapy after 25 years in practice. In 1989, when I started, I got a well-paying job with my Bachelor’s in Social Work at $17,000. Now I have a Master’s degree in Social Work from an Ivy League school, two years post-master’s training in pastoral counseling, clinical hypnosis and EMDR (treatment for PTSD) training, and the 25 years of experience, including supervisory experience, and in 1989 dollars I’m making $20,682.34, according to http://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=17000&year=1989. $2500 more. Wow.

          Luckily for you and people who need mental health services like the scumball from San Diego, we counselors are so well compensated.

          Don’t get me wrong, I’m a gun guy through and through, for all the right reasons. I’m also a great therapist and I’m sticking with it. But I have no love lost for Ronald Reagan, who utterly gutted the mental health system in the 80′s. Remember the homelessness problem of the 80′s? Where do you think a large number of them came from? That’s right, institutions who were not able to get them set up with aftercare due to there being no money for aftercare. Thank you, Mr. President. We haven’t recovered from that, and we can’t keep good people more than 2-3 years on average to counsel the mentally ill due to the fact that a person’s gotta eat.

          And don’t ask me how much less addiction counselors make. There’s a reason I didn’t stay in that field.

          You want good behavioral health services for people? Pay for it. Then we’ll compare today to the not so golden days of 30-40 years ago.

        • avatarpaulWTAMU says:

          We also had a lot of people committed because they violated social norms, without being a threat.

          Pro-gun people should be *glad* forced institutionalizing is damn hard to do. It’s based on pre-crime for gods sakes.

        • avatarNL says:

          That’s statist talk. Yeah, let’s let the state lock up everyone deemed insane, Soviet-style. There’s nothing stopping the state from designating pro-2A people violently insane.

          Unlike you, I don’t support the infringement of rights for safety.

    • avatarWilliam Burke says:

      It was the wrong kind of help, for certain.

      • avatarArdent says:

        For some reason it seems to catch our attention more if you kill 5 people in a day than if you kill 50 over 10 years. Certainly if you use a gun and do it in a public place the media will force feed it to us. The MSM is only a symptom though, it’s geared to shallow, drama and sensation seeking people who don’t regard being particularly knowledgeable about anything as much of a virtue. There are a lot of really, really stupid people in the world, quite a few crazy ones and a few who are pure evil. The first need stewardship, the second treatment and the last need to be put down. In the meantime all we can do is try to make sure that the masses of the chronically ignorant don’t screw everything up so bad that we’re left either without the means to protect ourselves from the crazies and the evils, or so broke that we can’t afford the means in the first place.

  4. avatarcraig says:

    An anti-gun democrat telling me I don’t need a gun or can’t have a gun to protect myself or my family is like me telling them they don’t need or can’t have an airbag in their Volvo or an alarm system in their house. Why do you need an alarm system, the world is a safe place??? Ya, try calling 911 and asking for help when a car runs a red light and t-bones your family.

    • avatarWilliam Burke says:

      A wise man once told me, “don’t bother trying to talk sense to the senseless.”

      That wise man was me.

      • avatarTerry Hoover says:

        World, it is time to try something else. Get a concealed carry permit. A good guy with a gun could have stopped this idiot.
        Nothing else has worked, time for a different approach.

  5. avatarRob Aught says:

    As a father I was shocked to hear Mr. Martinez’ anti-gun rant talking about the death of his child. I feel for his loss and I understand maybe being less than rational, but if anything were to happen to one of my loved ones I am going to be much more aggrieved over the why than the what.

    It does not matter to me how my family was killed, only that they would be gone. I do not want to ever live in that reality, but I would struggle to understand why anyone would do such a thing. I know this because I struggle with the thought that anyone would WANT to kill my family or anyone’s loved ones in the first place.

    The method does not matter.

    I am also furious that -
    The fact that 3 of the victims were killed by a means other than a firearm does not seem to be important to anti-gunners
    The fact that an automobile was also used to injure many people does not seem important to the anti-gunners
    The fact that 4 of the 6 victims were actually male does not seem important to the feminists
    The fact that more people probably were killed over the weekend in Chicago does not seem important to the progressives

  6. avatarPaul53 says:

    1. We have a violence problem, not a gun problem.
    2. Badly depressed people don’t kill themselves or others. They just don’t have the drive.
    3. Anti depressants don’t work over night. They take weeks or months to bring a person out of depression to a normal state. It is in this transition from depression to normalcy where the now partially depressed person may be a danger to themselves or others. They are still partially depressed, but now they have the energy or drive to do these things. Anti depressants are not the cause of bad behavior.

    • avatarRob Aught says:

      Do we have a violence problem? UCR stats show an ongoing decrease in violent crime.

      • avatarHannibal says:

        We have a media problem. And it’s not just CNN.

      • avatarPaul53 says:

        My attempt to get people off the backs of people of the gun. I wish we could refocus the national attention on violence in general. We know if guns disappeared tomorrow, there would still be violence. I believe that it would be more useful to find and address the causes of violence rather than focus on guns. My little attempt to improve the world, pivot the energy of the anti’s to a better cause, and live happily ever after I guess.

        • avatarPaul53 says:

          The Boston Marathon bombers used pressure cookers. Violence. No guns.

        • avatarDerryM says:

          I think you are missing the point that the anti’s have no interest in anything other than taking “guns” from the people, in general THEY are the ones that keep the conflict focused upon guns and the barrage of propaganda aimed squarely at gun owners, not knife owners, pressure cooker owners,, pointy stick owners, or any other possible arms owners.

          So, your well-intended effort to broaden the scope of discussion will not play in their theater. Further, they, apparently, believe that the gun is the source of the violence, as if the gun emanates some invisible, demonic force that makes hapless humans want to maim and kill in a berzerk bloodlust that can only be stopped by taking the gun away from them and never letting them touch it again. The logic of your endeavor fails when it intersects their medieval superstitions and blindass ignorance.

          Fortunately, POTG do understand the issue is the violence people create out of their own minds and has nothing to do with any “Ju-ju” emanating from an inanimate object.

        • avatarBrent says:

          Actually the boston bombers did use guns. They shot that campus cop and had a couple shoot outs with the police.

      • avatarBob says:

        As long as there is any violence, we have a violence problem. The fact that the problem is decreasing, does not mean the problem is going away. If the violence continues decreasing, we may eventually be able to call it an insignificant problem, but it will still be a problem.

        The antis tell us that the violence problem is getting worse. FBI national crime statistics tell us that is a lie. Antis also seem fascinated by mass shootings, even though they represent an insignificant part of the violence problem, and the number and scale of mass shootings are also decreasing over time. The antis concentrating on mass shootings is at least a half-truth or a lie-by-omission, if not an outright lie.

        • avatarWilliam Burke says:

          “The fact that the problem is decreasing, does not mean the problem is going away.”

          Okay, then. Tell us how, if you will, how measurably falling crime rates means something other than decreasing crime rates.

          No one expects it go away completely. So I fail to grasp your point. Are you saying decreasing crime rates is a meaningless thing?

        • avatarArdent says:

          I believe that at a subconscious (I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt) level there are a lot of anti’s who get excited when there is a mass shooting.

          If you’ve defined yourself as pro gun control then your definition of progress has to be gun restrictions. In the past mass shootings have given them the momentum to ‘do something’ about guns. The actual effect has no importance, gun control, for many in the movement, has become it’s own end, not the means to some other thing. They either can’t or wont think that nothing needs to be done ‘about’ guns regardless of the overwhelming evidence that guns save more lives than they take and that violent crime is continually falling.

          Theirs is not a well thought out position but rather something like religious faith, no amount of evidence will ever change their mind and the issue is of such critical importance (to them and their ego) that any means to the end are acceptable, even ‘waving the bloody shirt’.

          To some anti’s, a mass shooting is like their team scoring a touch down. It’s actually progress in the right direction since enough mass shootings, to them at least, mean eventual gun bans, and for a while they may have been right.

          They aren’t able to see that the game has changed. Heller pretty much says that you can’t ban blanket types of guns that are in common use, which protects the most likely targets of a federal level ban. But it’s not just that, it’s that so many and more diverse people have taken up guns as a hobby, a lifestyle or a tool of personal protection. There just isn’t any mass sentiment that guns are bad outside of the liberal echo chambers of the major cities. The way the congress is configured these cities can’t stock it with enough gun banners to get anywhere.

          The momentum has shifted and the ball is in our court. If anything more relaxed gun laws are the norm across most of the country that isn’t in the NE corridor or California. Even CA and HI are apt to end up as shall issue CCW states and that alone will start to wear down the opposition to guns there. IL has been arm twisted into a shall issue state . . .Gun rights really are the third rail of politics if you aren’t firmly in a deep blue district. If Gov. Christie thinks he has a shot at the Republican nomination he’s an unbelievable fool. His gun rights record alone is enough to absolutely destroy him in a primary race. It might fly in Jersey, but at the national level the push back is such that he’s committed political suicide already.

          There just isn’t consensus on more gun control nationally and more mass shootings isn’t apt to change that anymore. I think that the facts might actually be sinking in; that gun control laws don’t prevent mass shootings and that murderers are gonna murder so to speak. If anything there is a shift to being armed for personal defense and the creeping realization that GFZs are not only ineffective but just a bad idea.

          I think the think that the banners missed was the internet. Where else can a right-wing Christian fundamentalist, an atheist libertarian and an agnostic democrat who’s only commonality is support for the 2A meet? Distance, time and different cultural and lifestyle, even philosophical differences no longer separate us, nor does age or race. Every state has multiple guns rights organizations with membership and funding growing steadily, the internet allow for this. The anti’s have. . . VPC and Brady? Tired old organizations that have screamed the sky is falling so many times that not even the liberal news media really listens anymore? MDA, a fully externally funded national group that can’t rally as many members as the board of directors at the NRA? MAIG? Really? Half their members don’t know their members and the other half are felons.

          The fights not over, not by a long shot, but we’ve broken out of our beachhead and secured a major port. Now the momentum is ours and time is on our side.

  7. avatarSouthernPatriot says:

    Joe I am with you in heart and mind. Agree completely. I also like the addendum concerning the murders by stabbing which total the same number as those murders committed by shooting and preceded them. I wonder if the leftists will soon start a anti-knife lobby, or their will be Moms against Knife Violence or similar.

    • avatarMudPuppy says:

      Only after the guns are banned. Just look at Britain’s crusade against knives now that guns are “solved.”

      • avatarDerryM says:

        Interestingly, I was just told by an American Businessman who travels to the PRC frequently that they have a horrendous murder/injury rate involving knives and edged weapons. Once in awhile, one of those stories surfaces here in the MSM, but this fellow says it’s pretty crazy how many Chinese stab and slash each other to death or grave injury daily. The Government suppresses reportage fiercely, and there are no official statistics that represent what is actually happening.

        If there are several hundred million guns in private hands in the U.S., there must be tenfold the amount of edged weapons, or more. Taking a quick inventory of edged items in my house I came up with 85, which far exceeds the number of firearms of all types I own, and that does not include table knives that are edged but not sharp edged. Oh…and don’t forget “pointy sticks”…

  8. avatarwoody from ny says:

    +1 Paul

  9. avatarCharles says:

    No matter what you do, you will NEVER be able to stop gun violence. Yes I mean NEVER. Yes it’s tragic when a person known to be mentally ill, still is able to kill with a gun, but he proved that he didn’t NEED a gun to kill.
    He would have and DID kill without one. A person willing to kill for whatever reason will do so with or without a gun. Those that want to take our guns away cannot see past their own grief (I can’t say I blame them for that) and the politicians are more than willing to just rip our 2A rights away because of it, without so much as a second thought. We will not stop fighting for our right to keep and bear arms anymore than they will stop trying to prevent gun violence.

    Those of you that think I am wrong, think about it.. There will always be gun violence until there are no more guns world wide and that will NEVER happen, so there is always going to be someone willing to buy, sell, trade, import, export,barter or steal a gun from whatever source they have to to get one.

    The only thing we can do is start treating criminals like criminals instead of just simply mistreated or misguided souls that supposedly need our help to straighten them out. Stop letting violent offenders out on the street. Obama himself supposedly let go about 3000 illegal aliens with some sort of criminal record. Yet there is very little coverage or outcry on that. Go fiugure!

    • avatarDerryM says:

      “Those of you that think I am wrong, think about it.. There will always be gun violence until there are no more guns world wide and that will NEVER happen, so there is always going to be someone willing to buy, sell, trade, import, export,barter or steal a gun from whatever source they have to to get one.”

      Absolutely right! Well said!

      • avatarPaul53 says:

        Or knives, or pressure cookers, or razor blades taped to playground equipment, or C4 in a kids toy, screw drivers, box cutters. I agree with your point whole heartedly. I just believe a more global approach to violence is needed. We don’t ban planes because they can crash. We research the cause of crashes and try to eliminate it. Let’s investigate the causes for all violence and take steps to eliminate them.

        • avatarWilliam Burke says:

          Are you suggesting violence needs special attention because it is a huge decline? Are you familiar with “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”?

          Maybe the point is to “fix” it so it climbs again?

        • avatarBob says:

          Unfortunately, the causes of violence are Human Beings. Violence is an essential part of our human nature. The problems occur when that violence is used in ways that hurt other humans.

          What I’m trying to say is that you can’t eliminate violence, because it is a part of our humanity. You certainly can’t analyze a crime in the way the FAA analyzes an airplane crash, and come up with an equipment/procedure/system solution that will reduce the chance of it happening again. The violence problem is much more complicated than an airplane or train crash, and infinitely harder to fix.

  10. avatarNot Me says:

    “CONTROL YOUR KIDS – NOT MY GUNS” Shirt

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/www.ebay.com/itm/131200413880

    • avatarPaul53 says:

      AMEN! Somebody gets it! The link didn’t work, but I’ll find that shirt and promote the heck out of them! Thanks.

  11. avatarRich says:

    “your dead kids don’t trump my Constitutional rights.”

    Yeah, those kind of statements sure help to win over people to our side. Another genius along the lines of the ones who open carry in chipotles in the low-ready.

    • avatardoesky2 says:

      Works for the left…The million dead fetuses don’t trump their (made up) right.

      Of coarse the Left has the little advantage of controlling 99% of the media.

    • avatarAnother Robert says:

      I am afraid you are right. Although the concept is certainly valid, the delivery is, to say the least, problematic. A criminal lawyer, however, should not only be able to see the sentiment, as others have pointed out, they pretty much make their living by it.

    • avatarWilliam Burke says:

      I am confused as to what you think it is that we should actually be saying to them.

      Here’s your chance. I won’t ask but once.

    • avatarNate Prentice, MSW, LCSW, CAS-PC says:

      I’d agree with Rich’s point. Terrible and tactless delivery. But then, this is another no-win scenario for the most part.

      Commitment is not that hard a thing to do. There certainly was precedent from the mom and the social worker who called for help. As a psychotherapist who has been involved in these kinds of situations, I’m annoyed with the cop who clearly should have called in mobile crisis and let them make the call.

      However, the guy was clearly a sociopath (I watched the video–he’s the real thing). Sociopaths can talk their way out of most anything.

      Guys, we can’t stop ALL violence. It’s been with us since Cain and Abel. But we can reduce these particular kinds of acts through advocacy for mental health treatment, destigmatization, and education/prevention work. And we can reduce it through lawful, responsible self-defense.

      • avatarWilliam Burke says:

        I fail to find the slightest “tactless” thing about it. You are seeing what you want to see.

        And it kinda pisses me off.

        • avatarHannibal says:

          If you don’t see anything ‘tactless’ about any sentence that begins with ‘your dead kids…’ then you are severely out of touch with society and perhaps humanity.

  12. avatarRalph says:

    Martinez is a criminal lawyer. I’m sure he’s heard of the Constitution, and I’m sure that he’s been responsible for putting at least one scumbag back on the street where he probably harmed someone else’s child. And if so, that child’s parents probably said “sure the accused has rights, but what about my child’s right to live?”

    • avatarAnother Robert says:

      And Martinez would probably say, “your dead child, your raped daughter, your maimed mother doesn’t trump my client’s Constitutional rights.”

    • avatarNL says:

      Oh please leave the kneejerk comments to libs. If you want mob justice, move to Somalia.

  13. avatarMack Bolan says:

    It’s an over used cliché, but “Freedom isn’t Free”.

    It’s not just the folks in the military that are responsible to pay the tab of freedom when it comes due. Sometimes the citizenry must foot the bill. Sadly most people don’t see it that way.

    Too many people see freedom as something they are entitled to, paid from some slush fund filled with Joneses, Johnsons, and Smiths. They blissfully enjoy that freedom unaware of the many who both voluntarily and involuntarily were offered as tender.

    But when the check comes due and the tender bears the name of someone they know or love, freedom means nothing, sacrifice is for someone else, and freedom is a sacrificial lamb to satiate their grief.

    American’s need to toughen up, and the families of those killed need to see the death of their loved ones as a debt paid, and a sacrifice made to the greatest cause of all…liberty.

    • avatardootdootbeep says:

      Wow, you are seriously saying random victims of a shooting are required to ensure we still have gun rights? Are you insane?

      • avatarStinkeye says:

        I don’t presume to speak for him, but I don’t think he’s saying that shooting victims are “required to ensure” anything. He’s saying that, if you have true liberty, some small percentage of assholes are going to abuse that liberty to harm others. It’s the “cost of doing business” in a free society. It’s not a necessary component to liberty, but it is an inevitable result of having that freedom.

      • avatarDerryM says:

        He is making the same observation as Thomas Jefferson, who wrote:

        “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure. ” Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, Paris, 13 Nov. 1787

        It is a harsh but necessary reality. The reason it does not play well with the anti-gun crowd is that THEY would cut down the “tree of liberty” and burn it at the alter of the Tyrants they grovel to. There’s no point in making these sniveling thralls feel all “warm and fuzzy” by mincing words and offering flowery or veiled rhetoric. They need to plainly understand the truth of the principles we embrace and will uphold now and for all time.

        Read the entire context of Jefferson’s quote here:

        http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/The_tree_of_liberty…%28Quotation%29

      • avatarHannibal says:

        Wow, way to completely twist someone’s point around.

        • avatarDerryM says:

          Okay, untwist it for me. If you think maintaining our right to keep and bear Arms will never entail the consequence that some unbalanced, or evil, person will ever kill an “innocent” person now and again, I’d like to hear you argue that.

    • avatarWilliam Burke says:

      The citizenry ALWAYS foots the bill.

    • avatarSkeptical_Realist says:

      “Freedom isn’t Free”

      Freedom costs $1.05.

  14. avatardoesky2 says:

    Once again shows you how the average plumber is smarter than any Democrat politician or president.

    I wish there was a third option on all voting ballots and that would be….random person chosen from the phone book

    • avatarWilliam Burke says:

      “None of the above” is better, and is actually a choice some places. It’s the ultimate no-confidence vote.
      “We don’t approve of the choices you offered. Please start over and try again.”

      And one day, “none of the above” will win an election. It’s the moment the political sphere dreads the most.
      And it’s inevitable.

  15. avatarJOE MATAFOME says:

    They keep blaming mental health and the lack of treatment. Some people are just plain EVIL, and nothing can be done to help evil lowlife scum. This moron was evil and I guess evil people can be nuts, but you’ll never change or stop their evil ways. Guns have been used to stop evil throughout history, and that will never change.

    • avatarWilliam Burke says:

      If someone gave you mind-warping drugs that made you totally unaware of what you were doing, and you killed someone, would be be “evil” at that moment? I’m not excusing his actions; I just think somebody should ask, and someone should answer.

      • avatarHannibal says:

        “If.” We have no way to postulate that such a thing occurred.

        It raises the question, why are there so many people who have similar medications that don’t go around killing people?

        • avatarWilliam Burke says:

          Because your pharmacist wants you to know that side effects do not effect every person taking a drug, or else they wouldn’t be able to prescribe it. That goes for ANY drug.

          And it goes without saying that not everyone will experience EVERY side effect. Do you really know nothing about side effects? I’m not buying that. You may think you’re being coy, but it’s a massive fail.

      • avatarArdent says:

        Your post made me think of Project MKULTRA. The CIA actually dosed random US citizens with LSD, without their knowledge or consent, to see what it would do to them. Every time you get so far out of bounds that I think you must be insane I think of MKULTRA and accept that no matter how nutty it sounds, some very strange things do happen, and sometimes it really is a conspiracy.

  16. avatarJohn says:

    I don’t think this aggrieved parent understands the ramifications of what he desires.

    Aside from all of the social and political implications and the end of many ways of life, he basically desires for government thugs to show up at 90 million gun owners’ doorsteps and be willing to murder the occupants for their guns. Ostensibly to “end gun violence”.

    • avatarWilliam Burke says:

      Either it’s 100% grief talking (most likely), or he understands the disarmament message to some degree. I’m going to give him a pass on the latter.

      But I’ll say this: if, god forbid, this happened to my daughter or grandson, and the press comes slithering in (inevitable, to say the least!) to get a comment from ME, they’ll be met with a 12-guage shotgun.

      There is NO WAY they’re getting one word out of me, other than, “if you don’t get outta my face in ten seconds, someone’s going to the Trauma Unit!”

  17. avatarKevin J says:

    The media loves these stories. Have you been to cnn in the past few days? It’s rediculous! They are covering this a-hole more than they would an actual hero. It’s sick. Every little tidbit about his life is front page news.

    • avatarWilliam Burke says:

      I DO NOT watch CNN, PERIOD. For the same reason, I do not watch MSNBC. I don’t need to be shooting up my good old Sony Trinitron (a classic car, by now!).

      As long as I don’t watch, I’m a good boy.

  18. avatarUnapologeticallyAmerican says:

    The 3 that died indeed were tragic. So were the 40+ that died this weekend in Chicago. Notice the media doesn’t mention them. Why is that?

  19. avatarChubby says:

    When Joe the Plumber said that his rights aren’t trumped by someone’s death, he just a truck load of fuel to the haters to throw on fire. That one sentence destroyed everything he said.

    Tip for Joe the Plumber; A closed mouth gathers no feet.

  20. avatarlabman57 says:

    Sam “My name really isn’t Joe and I’m not really a plumber” Wurzelbacher is a spotlight-seeking opportunistic political poseur, desperately in search of something relevant to say … you know, kinda like Sarah Palin.

    This knuckle-walking asshole has been overextending his “15 minutes” … since the day McCain attempted to make him the ‘poster boy of Obama-phobia’ back in 2008 … you know, kinda like Sarah Palin.

    • avatarWilliam Burke says:

      You just saw him on what channel? I didn’t think so. Exaggerating will cause others to think you might be of simple mind. Better to not confirm their suspicions. Next time.

      No fan of “Joe the Plumber” at all, and I seldom read anything he has to say; I delete ‘em on sight. But what he said was very precise and measured. There was NOTHING inflammatory about that open letter, and you think there was, you need an anti-inflammatory for your psyche.

      But lord, the guy looks like he’s aged 25 years in the last 5.

  21. avatarYngvar says:

    After watching Youtube videos the loser concluded that perpetrating his ‘Retribution’ on the typical party days/weekends was sub-optimal; too many cops. Armed cops. To easy to get shot before killing ‘enough’ people. Now if nearly everyone walking the streets was armed or possibly armed, I wonder what his calculus would be.

  22. avatarKap says:

    In today’s liberal utopia you cannot use Corporal punishment as discipline! according to liberals and most California Left wingers, people do not do wrong silly! in this case it was first a knife, a Car and then a gun! anyway the perpetrator didn’t get a chance to donate to the Gene pool so he freaked. but it wasn’t his fault, poor baby, must have been LSD in his meds or Porn flicks that got him all worked up. any way I think its the Department of Motor Vehicles fault as they let him drive, that means they were accomplices along with the Sharp instruments Maker, Maker of clothes,maker of shoes and Automobiles, if not accomplices at least facilitators! I feel for the Victims but nothing for the perp! nor his family as they sired this twisted thing and did not do well by him! now trying to scape goat anything that they can

  23. avatarSkeptical_Realist says:

    I can’t figure out why these mass shooting events are always reported as “tragedies”. The appropriate word, in my opinion, is “atrocity”.

  24. avatarMina says:

    no one wants to hear my take on why this kid was so messed up.

    • avatarWilliam Burke says:

      :( How sad!

      I’m guessing you’ve failed to provide it. What do you want from us? That’s the poutiest post ever.

      I gots no use for pouting. So put up or shut up, dammit.

  25. avatarHannibal says:

    I’m pretty sure that “trump my rights” line has been said before.

    Anyway, I agree with it but I have to imagine there’s a better way to put it.

  26. avatarDavid_TheMan says:

    Involuntary commitment is a ridiculous option, but knowing the statists on this site I’m not surprised it is being mentioned.

    Yet the same people supporting forced detainment of people who have broken law then claim they are about the consitution and cry and whine repeatedly about their 2nd amendment rights and obama taking their guns and making them buy healthcare.

    which is it, are you for a free society or are you not?

    You can’t and will never stop crazy people from doing crazy things, the best thing you can do is allow people the ability to defend themselves from the crazies when such things occur.

  27. avatarAustin Cooper says:

    I’m going to go ahead and call that this kid who killed all these people was never spanked or disciplined.

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