First of all, sorry for getting the town wrong in an earlier version of this post. Second, huh? What does ANY police force need with an MRAP? I mean, if it gets to the point where you need a humongous armored personnel carrier to “solve” a violent situation, it’s time to call in an air strike. (Note to local police: don’t get any ideas.) There are plenty of smaller vehicles that can do this job as well, not to mention individual officers sheltering and maneuvering behind a ballistic shield. Yes there is that. As Baker Ballistics points out, an active shooter or hostage situation requires speed, surprise and violence of action. Given the size and lack of maneuverability of an MRAP, once the initial surprise wears off, what? To quote the Prez, these weapons of war have no business on our streets.

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93 Responses to Incendiary Image of the Day: Another Day, Another MRAP Edition

  1. I presume this is all part of the Pentagon’s massive giveaway program, whereby local governments can acquire “surplus” military equipment for next to nothing.

    It’s actually a good thing that the local agencies brag about these acquisitions, because it sheds light on the massive waste at the federal level that should incense every tax paying American.

    • The local towns should have to purchase these vehicles at anywhere between scrap (~$2,000) and “retail” (~$500,000 when new) value.

      The proceeds should then reimburse the taxpayers who are NOT in the locations that “benefit” from the vehicle that they paid to manufacture through Federal income tax.

    • Acquisition costs are trivial compared to the maintenance and operation costs. Oh wait…. this is taxpayer funded so it’s a justification to increase the budget. I wonder how much harder this stuff is on the roads. Wonder if the State Department of Transportation needs to increase their budgets, too.

      • If they were able to run that pile of junk hard for a year, three things would happen:
        – There would be no paved roads or intact bridges left in the vicinity
        – There would be a local shortage of diesel fuel
        – The town would broke paying for MRAP upkeep and fuel

        • This reminds me of a story my father in law told me about being in the Air National Guard in, I’m guessing here, the late 50’s or early 60’s. He told be they received a P-51 Mustang and flew the shit out of it for the first month and used up their yearly fuel allowance. No more flying for the rest of the year!

    • Odds are all they need is somebody, anybody with a .38 snub nose revolver. Most of the time the shooter turns their gun on themselves at the first sight of another firearm.

  2. The military are pushing these MRAPs to the state, county and local police departments. I believe it is a way for them to ‘moth ball’ these vehicles. Saginaw County (MI) got one, and the Sheriff said he doesn’t expect to [i]ever[/i] use it. He said that as part of the ‘deal’ they also get parts for free, and he has NO maintenance budget for the vehicle, he intends to pay any maintenance bills needed out of drug forfeiture money (the same place he got the car he drives, and the one before that). He stated that the contract also stipulated that if the Sheriff’s department ever doesn’t want the MRAP anymore they have to return it to the federal government, they may not sell it.

    What was never stated was whether or not the federal government retained the right to ‘call up’ the MRAPs if they were ever needed again, or if they need to be kept at a set ‘readiness level’.

    • The Sheriff is a fool or lies. All maint and upkeep of equipment transferred under the 1033 (or LESO) program area resp of the gaining agency.

      At present there are vast quantities of new MRAP repair parts being surplused by DOD, Including engines, transmissions, axles etc (civilian parts). If you want a heck of a deal on IH, Mack etc engines work thru the listings at http://www.govliquidation.com (or for gov’t agencies/nonprofits at http://www.gsaexcess.gov).

      DOD didn’t have MRAP in 1950/2000 because stupid nonsense. Armored supply trucks? Politicians forced DOD to spend BILLIONS on the POS late in Iraq. On the Right because thought would improve our warfighting capability and help win the war and the libtard opportunists on the left out “supporting our boys (and girls)”

      Then, and now, stupid useless unsafe POS and DOD is dumping them wholesale.

      • Not saying I am a fan of every local PD getting one of these, but I have to disagree with the premise of your post. These vehicles saved hundreds, possibly thousands of lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. Expensive? Yes. But what dollar figure would you put on the lives saved?

        • Yeah, but how many mined roads are encountered CONUS? Different strokes for different folks.

      • How is the LEFT position of “supporting our boys (and girls)” [with decent protective gear to keep the troops in good working order] incompatible with the contard position of improving our fighting ability?

    • The MRAP are based on vehicles developed by S African. As the Cougar and Grizzley. The first US “MARP” were identical. Don’t recall if bought from S Africa or if we copied them.

    • Any armored vehicle is pathetically weak against someone with a molotov or two. That is the reason there is usually ground troops near tanks, APCs, IFVs and the like.

      • Do you know what an APC or an IFV is…??? Or are they just acronyms you’ve picked up along the way…???

        • Armored Personnel Carrier (APC)

          Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV)

          General gist of things is that they are big, armored, slow-moderate and are susceptible to molotovs, like all armored and slow things.

          Doesn’t take a lot of searching to find footage of either burning.

      • Most glass containers are a gallon, tops, most of which would spill on the ground.

        What’s left would burn out before anything apart from an external fuel tank went, and our vehicles don’t use external tanks.

        Tanks especially are more’n a tidge resistant to the namesake of Molotov.

        • You didn’t get it.

          You mess up the wheels/tracks. Then they can’t move. Sooner or later someone has to exit. Either because of basic needs or because of human curiosity.

          Besides, you can always throw more. 1 or two is usually enough for anything with wheels (the rubber melts).

  3. The Economist — Why America’s Police Are Becoming So Militarized
    http://www.businessinsider.com/why-americas-police-are-becoming-so-militarized-2014-3

    “It would be easier to determine who is right if police departments released more information about how and how often they deploy SWAT teams. But most are extremely cagey. In 2009 Maryland’s governor, Martin O’Malley, signed a law requiring the police in his state to report such information every six months. Three published reports showed that SWAT teams were most often deployed to serve search warrants on people suspected of crimes involving drugs and other contraband, but the law is set to expire this year. Utah’s legislature has passed a similar measure; it awaits the governor’s signature.”

    Flemington, New Jersey has all of 4,500 people. It hasn’t seen a murder in well over a decade.
    But it does have its own SWAT team. And now the town wants to buy assault rifles for its regular patrol cops, too.
    http://www.theagitator.com/2012/09/25/the-militarization-of-mayberry/

    There is no reason to have so many SWAT teams. It is a waste of tax payer money. In my area, there are 6 communities who share a SWAT Team and those six communities represent about 240,000 residents. Each town has one member on the team.

    The BS is when SWAT Teams are used for search warrants on non-violent offenses or as we read in these pages some time ago, the Dept of Education of all govt entities used a SWAT Team to go after some unpaid student loans — WTF! Why does the post office have their own SWAT Team? Again, really?

    Often I feel these are to justify the increased cost of department or security theater.

    Really, there needs to be push back and rethinking. These MRAP and SWAT teams are band-aids for better training of general officers. In Flemington, NJ and Washington, LA, there is not a terrorist hiding under every rock and should one be found, seems like calling in the state PD would be sufficient for smaller towns/communities — it is such a waste of money. The initial cost may be cheap, but long term it will get expensive

    • Utterly true. I’ve been covering cops and crime for newspapers for the past 20 years. The SWAT-style responses have risen to absurd levels.

    • Since the President is forbidden from deploying the Army on American soil, they’re doing their best to turn the local police into armies. They already have the “correct” mindset (the public are just criminals I haven’t caught yet) and now they’re getting the tools (automatic weapons, heavy-duty body armor, armored vehicles, etc).

      • ^^^ Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner! What we need is a Posse Comitatus Act 2 that states no domestic police force (including the Feds, no more exemptions. The 14th Amendment should really count for something but that is a subject for another day) can have any weapons that law abiding citizens in their district/region/whatever cannot legally own.

    • Exactly.

      To play the part of Devil’s advocate here, RF sounds a lot like anti-gun people in these police armament pieces.

      Why does a police dept. NEED an MRAP? Why do you NEED and AR-15?

      ^ See what I did there.

      The fact is, it’s a cool vehicle and people want one to drive around for cool-guy stories. I just wish it were not so cost prohibitive for civilians to get ahold of stuff like this.

      As it is, I will probably have to settle for a WWII APC in the next year or two since tanks and more modern armored vehicles cost an arm and a leg (not to mention the maintenance costs).

      • Hold the phone, there, just for a minute.

        Anti’s argue against private ownership and concealed carry in part on the premise that we normal plebes cannot be trusted with such weapons…the old blood in the streets argument.

        That argument fails the test of “verifiable fact.”

        Most folks against the militarization of civilian law enforcement argue against the abuse against the citizenry…which CAN be verified in cases of SWAT no-knock raids against the wrong house, excessive use of force cases, etc.

        Factor in the problem that when these abuses do happen, they are often accompanied by “immunity from prosecution” and I think it’s clearly an apples to go carts comparison.

        • I am not disagreeing with you, but an MRAP is a tool, a soulless, inanimate object just like a gun.

          The heart of the issue is the abuse you mentioned.

          I would prefer to focus on the root of the problem which is our American law enforcement culture.

          Quite frankly, if the police had had the ability to buy an MRAP or anything like it 100 years ago, they would have jumped at it too. Why? The same reason you or I would.

          They’re cool.

          I would not give a crap if all the LEOs had their own private tanks if they obeyed the laws they are sworn to enforce and were held accountable under those same laws. So how about we stop focusing on the gear and start focusing on the lack of accountability?

          I cannot get behind not allowing LEOs to have armored vehicles when us civvies can get ahold of similar vehicles without too much fuss.

          Sure, there is the waste/expenditure of taxpayer resources issue, but once again, that is another matter entirely.

        • Not to mention the small detail that I’m not forcing any anti-gun folks to buy my guns and ammo for me.

          Police departments most definitely have a requirement (or should, in a sane society, anyway) to demonstrate “need” for any equipment they spend tax dollars on. Otherwise, why not just ramp the cop budget up 10000% and replace all the patrol cars with Abrams tanks and Apache gunships?

          Police departments everywhere are crying that they “need” bigger budgets, then they spend the money they receive (OUR money) on useless toys like these MRAPs.

        • I’m not sure I want the police in general operating on a “I want to do it because it’s cool” (not to mention “and because I can”) frame of mind.

        • “I would prefer to focus on the root of the problem which is our American law enforcement culture.”

          Agreed.

          I would add, however, that if that culture were “properly” addressed, it would also solve the issue of nearly every department having/getting an MRAP or other military style vehicle.

          The two issues certainly go hand in hand. It’s a culture of aggressiveness against the citizenry that leads to the desire to acquire such toys as a matter of policy.

      • There is a difference. I can spend my money how ever I choose (within the law). The municipalities get there money from us, and must (should…but don’t?) justify their expenses with either a need or a R.O.I. Going into Government finances run off topic for sure, but I think in this case is a clear distinction between the difference in us versus them.

      • Dear Bear,

        As citizens, it is our responsibility to decide what the government needs.

        It is not the government’s responsibility to decide what the citizens need.

        Do you understand the distinction?

      • Everyone who responded:

        Please note my earlier reply where I outline the fact that the fiscal issues involved are a separate matter entirely.

        Plus, some of you must have missed how some of these MRAPS have been given to the police free. No taxpayer burden.

        Look, I know it’s more fun to be dramatic and sensationalize everything, but the fact is some depts. have huge surpluses to use on cool toys too.

        The problem is NOT the tool. The problem is what is done with those tools.

        Geeze, I swear some of you sound exactly like anti-gun people on every issue except guns.

      • Bear, The difference in your argument is that I have a right, not a need, for an AR-15. The police is part of the Government as as such, the police department does not have rights. Governments have powers, granted by We the people, not rights. Your need argument doesn’t hold up.

        I have a problem with the Po po having anything that we cannot have. Most of our (Peoples Democratic Republic of Kaliforniastan) gun control laws were passed after exceptions were made for the police. Without those exceptions most of our gun control would not have passed.

        And when was the last time you saw a police car taken out by a IED? Not likely in the good ol US of A

  4. ” To quote the Prez, “these weapons of war have no business on our streets.””
    1st time I’ve agreed with anything he has said.

  5. Our county sheriff took possession of one just recently. As I understand it the military GAVE it to them at no charge. When the government wants to give you sh!t you take it. Otherwise they may not offer you something you need in the future.

    • Sort of. The cops get the vehicle (or M16) for no cost. But they have to transport it from wherever bock to new home. With Obuma closing the military HUGE qty of equipment available. But they don’t just give it to the new agency. You have to go out as REQUEST it. For cop program is LESO (1099)
      For example see Wi http://www.wi1033.com/ Most states fund a office/program to hold the cops hand in making requests etc. Notable has been frequent graft over the years. After a couple years most equipment can be sold (not (in theory) weapons, HMMWV, jeeps, MRAPS) and the $ disappear into the donut fund.

      Similar program for Fire Depts where we (I’m a Vol Fire Chief) can get trucks, pumps, generators. Started as a Loan program after Korean war. I’ve substantially reequipped and upgraded my FD (and others in the area) using the program. I have to find, request, transport and modify for FD use. Big IH wildland truck, Ford F900 water tanker. These are almost exclusively rural vol FD with no $ (like $10-35000/yr budget). Get a nice 20yr old truck, vol labor to convert and then run it for another 20yr. NOt this is NOT the way cop work (all well paid union types). Cops long had high priority on equipment (skimmed of the “good stuff”). A few years ago FD got a equal treatment in priority.

    • The thing is, is that your Sheriff doesn’t need one. NO police department does, ever did, or ever will.

      • You know that for a fact right? I mean you have vast years of experience in LE and have an idea of the man power and equipment that a PD or Sheriff’s Department needs to operate right? You’re not just talking out of your ass?

        • I know they are civilians just like the rest of us and they should not be treated differently. Including access to weapons. Something about equal protection under the law. Refer to the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. I’ve often heard it referred to as “The Law of the land” You may have heard of it.

        • Well, I DO have experience in law enforcement (do you?) and I’ve never seen a situation where an armored vehicle was NEEDED (as in the only or even the best solution to a problem).

          That’s not to say such situations don’t exist anywhere, but I seriously question the average agency really needs these to get the job that the communities they serve fund them to perform.

          MR in MRAP = Mine Resistant. So, you got some numbers on how many mines the average LEO faces daily, or even in his CAREER?

      • Do you NEED an ar-15? Do you NEED a 2 liter of soda? Do you NEED anything above a V-6 engine?

        ::eye roll::

        • Individuals have rights, which trump the “you don’t need that” argument. Doesn’t matter if I need a second handgun or not, I have the right, as an individual, to own a second handgun. Governments do not have ‘rights” in the same sense. Governments have obligations to the individuals they purport to serve. Governments have responsibilities to the individuals they purport to serve. Governments have powers, but legitimately only those powers granted to them by the individuals they purport to serve. Your comparison of governments and government agencies to individuals vis-à-vis rights vs. needs is nonsensical.

        • Need should be the measure for PD’s. They are not spending their money, they are spending ours.

          Need has nothing to do with which firearms a citizen buys with her own money. The government has long agreed. Machine guns figure as part of many collections and commercial protection arms.

        • @Roping: They’re free! Read the articles and comments!

          What, if you are offered a free MRAP you’re going to say no?

        • ::Face palm::

          Ok, I will no longer challenge the tin foil hat wearage in this thread.

          Just one more thing to consider: A lot of police are good guys who believe in the Constitution. In case of a theoretical civil war, some of those MRAPS might be on the side of liberty.

          Just food for thought.

  6. You guys have this all wrong. The small town MRAP’s have a very reasonable purpose. They are there to help get the mayor out of town safely at such time as it hits the local newspaper that he’s just been indicted for graft. In other words, it is a life-saving vehicle.

  7. Times have changed since the 1950’s. Your average criminal is more violent, savage, viscous, and without remorse or conscience. Have you never heard gangster rap that glorifies killing cops, raping women, and shooting your rivals? The police are doing precisely what so many 2A supporters are doing–they are up-armoring against perceived violent threats as perpetrated by the criminal elements in the black, illegal immigrant, and illegal drug societies. Why else is concealed and open carry sweeping the nation?

    I don’t mind the police being better armed than they were previously. Would you also take away their bullet proof vests, handcuffs, flashlights, and Tasers to put them on equal footing with the criminals? I want the boys in blue to go home at night; the drug dealers or criminal I want off the streets.

    For those of you whose only stupid retort is ” May your chains rest lightly upon you” I say that “They are the chains forged in the fires of liberty, hammered upon the anvil of freedom, tempered by the writings of our Founding Fathers, and made more precious by the blood of Americans who fought to prevent the tyranny of the wicked over the righteous. They are chains of the purest gold.”

    • Bad analogy–gold handcuffs are still handcuffs, to keep you from doing something you would otherwise want to do. And as I understand it, those “high powered ” centerfire .22-some-odd “assault rifles” that the cops are supposedly tooling up to face still figure in a miniscule number of crimes. There’s a reason our forbears did not want the military being used as domestic police, and turning domestic police into the military is not a good answer.

    • To be clear, it is not the use that anyone has issue with, it is the abuse many of have a problem with.

      There is a need for SWAT, but many departments take it too far and there is zero accountability for the use of SWAT.

      The police have a difficult job, often without the respect they deserve — however, there is also a lot of abuse in the system as well and that is what is being called out here as well. There are smarter ways to do things.

      Tell me, why does the U.S. Education Department have SWAT team?
      http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/2011/06/beware-the-us-education-department-swat-team

      Why does NASA have SWAT Teams? Why do towns with less 5000 people have SWAT Teams?

      Are these teams used everyday? Seem like some consolidation and accountability needs to be put into the system.

      I love to see a report of every SWAT team and when it was used and why — how often does the EPA and the Post Office need their SWAT Teams? Why are we sending SWAT Teams after cattle rangers whose only crime is some cows eating and pooping on some grass?

      Yes, there is a need, it is the over use and abuse that is only in question

    • “Your average criminal is more violent, savage, viscous, and without remorse or conscience. ”

      Beg to differ, or at least challenge that that is a gross assumption.

      Clyde Barrow was not exactly a sweet heart as but one example.

      How often are these things used against the folks you describe anyway (rap listeners that glorify cop killing)? Pretty much never?

      Do you want to know what is REALLY different about Law Enforcement now compared to mid-20th century?

      For one thing, the cops are disconnected from the community they serve (supposed to serve). There was a time that cops were neighbors, they ate at the local diner, they shopped at the corner store and their children played with other children in the community. They walked on foot and talked to people.

      They were INVESTED in doing their job without becoming the enemy.

      They also had to solve problems without all the toys of today; they had to think fast, talk fast and act fast. Were they perfect? No. but neither were they amped-up hotheads that viewed everyone around them as the enemy.

      My Da was a cop starting in 1954; he moved from ‘active duty’ to training in the mid-70’s and retired in the 90’s. He talked often about how much things changed, and I’d wager he’d roll over in his grave to see what it’s become in the last 20 years.

      Cops don’t need military toys to be effective.

      • This is one of the best posts I’ve ever read.

        I like most small town cops because they are neighbors, and neighborly. They are very much a part of the community. They are not arrogant, nor are they bullies with a lot of firepower and a lot of “friends.”

        Even NYC cops used to be this way when I was growing up there. They walked a beat. Everybody knew their names and they knew everybody.

        Then somebody told them that they owed allegiance only to their union. That was the end of police-private citizen cooperation.

        • ^^^ What Ralph said. And about the NYPD when he was a kid; I had the same experience with them. I think they started to become union enforcers in the 60s.

      • All of you that talk about police as if it were Mayberry back in 1950 should have tried being black in one of those cities.

        Then come back here and talk about the good old days.

        • What in the world does that comment have to do with the [shall we say, unproven] assertion that police need military hardware now because criminals are more violent these days?

        • Hannibal, Mayberry? How about my paternal grandfather was CPD (as in Chicago). My maternal grandfather and his brother were Chicago-adjacent County Sheriffs. JR has it dead-on correct. My grandfather used to graphically explain some really terrible things he wanted to do to Darryl Gates and the rest of the LAPD that was turning cops into “filthy stormtroopers” (he did WWI & II so…).

          The police knew their jobs, did their jobs, and even with all the corruption (and boy was there) if you weren’t a real criminal, you had little to fear. There weren’t 50% too many cops standing around, ordered to generate some revenue, or make some arrests. They knew the best thing they could do was be part of the community, and exercise good judgement.

  8. A ballistic shield, victim evacuation, maneuverability ease of entry and exit may be easier to accomplish with a surplus Brinksmanship armored truck. For at least 99% of what a local police force would require. I think an MRAP puts the police into a combat rather than service frame of mind.

    • I recall the saying at the time: “Mayor Goode, please don’t drop that satchel charge on me!”

      Based, of course, on Charles Mingus’ song, OH LORD, PLEASE DON’T DROP THAT H-BOMB ON ME.

      Go drop it on yourself.

  9. “the police are the ones that have to respond, you cant have the military respond”

    Not much of a difference at this point guy

      • ahh I can see why that new rule was put in place with hostile idiots like you

        MRAPs, all the other wonderful gadgets, NYPD claims to have anti aircraft abilities. zzzzz

      • That difference [in some cities]: the cops are unionized. And THEIR highest priority is to go home safe and sound at the end of their shift so they can yell at the neighbors.

  10. They’re too expensive to keep, that’s why the military is getting rid of them. They will bankrupt cities.

    • I predict that in 10 years every VFW and American Legion post will have one in front of their hall. And one in every park.

  11. A waste of money at the federal level subsequently becomes a waste at the local level. MRAPs abound, SWAT teams proliferate, and the federal budget still isn’t even close to balanced. The taxpayers and minor misdemeanants / BS felons that “trigger” SWAT responses are the real victims.

  12. “…if it gets to the point where you need a humongous armored personnel carrier to “solve” a violent situation, it’s time to call in an air strike. (Note to local police: don’t get any ideas.)”

    Too late. I can see the new traffic enforcement helicopter. Start with a Russian Hind…

  13. Kent, the MRAP has seen limited use in Afghanistan due to the terrain, hell, the Toyota Hilux is better suited for those roads then an up armored Humvee. The road system is also just crappy, especially in the mountains. The MRAP is an unmanuverable top heavy SOB that will flip if you take a corner at any speed other than a crawl. They did save lives where they’ve been used, but I’m sure if you dig deep enough you will find stories of guys being killed when they flipped. All in all, you be better off with an armored suburban or Humvee, they also for in a wider range of rolls.

    • Don’t inject actual facts on the ground into a theoretical discussion. Harshes the mellow, or something…

  14. Yes they need it for martial law, and a possible civil or revolutionary war here, as well as if they are given the money for it,,,,,

    • Time for me to start working on my sugar rocket propelled shaped charges. In fact, rather than sending them income tax I could move that funding to this project.

  15. AS a 10 year military veteran and a 20 year Police veteran IMHO police don’t need MRAP’s. Its just the latest thing 1033 is giving away. Too much fuel, maintenance and insurance. Too little need.
    Those monsters wouldn’t get up the driveway of half the standoffs and search warrants we do.
    As far as weapons go, there have been M16’s, 1911’s and shotguns at different times.

    What another poster said is true. If you don’t want to justify to some liberal gun grabber why you need an AR15 and 5000 rounds of ammo, then don’t question the weapons I carry on duty. It’s my life on the line and I will carry whatever I need to protect it.
    Many departments convert the M16’s to semi only. That is an allowable modification so long as you retain the auto sear. Most departments prohibit automatic fire (Mine included) for obvious reasons. About 95% of officers who carry a patrol rifle carry M4 types to allow for sights, lights and such. The M16’s are hard to adapt that way. We don’t have any 1911’s, most carry Glocks or Sigs.
    Our shotguns are regular Mossbergs or Remingtons.
    There are a few .308 rifles around and I think the County SO still has some MP5’s somewhere but I don’t think they are issued out. We don’t have a SWAT team anymore. No need.

  16. First, the govt doesn’t give away Mil-Surp for free. At least, nothing that hasn’t been paid for, and then some, from our confiscated taxes. If “our” Congress wanted to stop the govt charity MRAP give away, they sure aren’t doing much of anything to stop it.
    Second, I’ve got a MilSurp Deuce and a half built in 1984 now 30 years old. Most of these MRAP’s are next to new. At $500,000 a piece, that’s like giving away a Ferrari Enzo to the police. Would anyone stand for that wasteful nonsense? At least you could chase speeding perps with the Ferrari and pay for it with the revenue generated from traffic tickets. The MRAP’s do not generate revenue, they generate animosity and distrust from the public on yet more deficit spending of money we don’t got, and the subsequent militarization of the police.
    Thirdly, If anything, we should give them to our Border Patrol agents so they won’t get killed by the Fast & Furious guns that are still showing up in crime scenes on both sides of our Southern border. These were built to serve American soldiers and American interests. The MRAP is an expensive parade vehicle for a town of only 7,000 people.

  17. An Armored Humvee would be more than enough for a Police Department. Something along the size of an armored Land Rover Defender would be even more practical, must be cheaper to run. Maybe just buy surplus bank armored vehicles.
    Could the National guard just come out a loan one to the Police for that once in a lifetime where they need an armored car.

  18. Just once I’d like a reporter to ask the senior LEO which would get to the scene of a school shooting faster – and MRAP or a Crown Vic? When seconds count, I don’t want my first responders wasting time climbing into a vehicle that will get them to the scene 10 minutes after the news vans do.

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