Daily Digest: Tiny Little Rockets Edition

gander-mtn

About a year ago, outdoor retailer Gander Mountain launched several stores with a new concept. Instead of their typical wide variety of outdoor equipment and clothing, the half dozen new stores would be 30,000 square feet of nothing but guns, gun accessories and gun-related gear. However, with the falloff in gun sales over the past few months, they are backing off that idea, and remodeling at least some of the firearms supercenters to a new “flex” retail concept, bringing back in camping, fishing, boating and seasonal gear, most recently in the grand-reopening of the store in Grandville, Michigan. This follows a similar relaunch of their store in Toledo, Ohio . . .

and will presumably continue throughout the remainder of the new concept stores. The former guns-only stores will still have a heavier focus on guns than a standard Gander Mountain, but clearly there does not yet seem to be a need for the gun store supercenter concept.

Your Lockdown of the Day™ comes from Rancho Cucamonga, California (one of my most favorite towns-I’ve-never-been-to). Day Creek Intermediate School was locked down for about 90 minutes today starting at about 3:30 p.m., following a report of “at least one armed man on campus.” In an interesting move I haven’t seen before, students were actually released in an “orderly” fashion about 45 minutes after the lockdown started, with sheriff’s deputies completing their room-to-room search by about 5 p.m. No armed man or men, or evidence of their presence was found. Deputies and a sheriff’s helicopter remained in the area for a time after the search was completed, and no additional details were available.

The gun store in Killeen, Texas that sold both Fort Hood shooters their guns is taking a lot of heat, but it doesn’t seem to be affecting their business. Guns Galore is getting hate mail and phone calls, some asking if they’re happy that more people are dead, but the aisles are still full of shoppers, both in uniform and out. It’s no great surprise that both guns came from this store, as according to the article over at cbs12.com, it’s located only about 2 miles outside Fort Hood, and is the only place in the area other than pawn shops where guns are available for sale. According to an employee at the store, Guns Galore has a strong record of complying with federal regulations, and counts several local law enforcement agencies among its customers. He said they will turn away potential buyers if something doesn’t feel right, but said, “I can only control what goes on inside this facility. Once a person leaves a door, it’s beyond me.”

The Yankee Marshal takes a shot at the FN Five-seveN, calling it the most worthless expensive handgun on the market, and “all hype” and “all marketing.” I’ve shot one quite a bit, and they’re pretty amusing. They make a lot of noise (and I mean a lot), but have very little recoil. They’re interesting, to be sure, but maybe he’s onto something here. I mean, as much fun as I’ve had with it, I’ve never quite gotten around to getting one of my own, because there has always been something a little more interesting that was higher on the list. What say you? Is the Five-seveN basically worthless for any actual purpose other than because it’s neat, or does it just come down to De gustibus non est disputandum (that’s Latin for “Don’t yuck someone else’s yum).

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comments

  1. avatar Mike Crognale says:

    I’m a fan of the caliber. That said, I found the handgun grip to be uncomfortable. It’s just a bit too big for me to get a comfortable grip. My PS90 now is a different story. I love that rifle.

    1. avatar Hobbez says:

      I agree. I own both. My sbr ps90 is my go to for everything but hunting, especially sporting my own hand loads. It sits by my bed at night and graces a hook in the shop when I’m open. My FiveseveN on the other hand, is just kind of a collectible oddity for me.

  2. avatar PGT says:

    I loved my FDE FiveseveN and OD PS90 combo. I loved selling them for $7200 during the height of the derpitude even more. I always said I’d buy again when the prices came back down (they have) but have found other items more interesting (for now).

    The thing that’s great about both are the ultra-fast followup shots….you can easily point shoot and walk your rounds in like you can with a 22LR. At $.45/rd, that’s probably not the most fiscally responsible way however.

    1. avatar Danny Griffin says:

      $7,200? LOL. CTD had a boatload of PS90’s w/red dot all colors for $1,500 a week or two back, and Gunbroker has them now for $1,300 NIB. Gunbroker also has Five-seveNs for $1,150 which is still a little high compared to the $950 – $1,050 they were going for. But both together are still under $2,500. That’s a long way from $7,200!

      1. avatar DavidT says:

        He sold them during the panic just after Sandy Hook, when (almost) everyone would pay any asking price for EBRs. Today, he says, the prices are more normal.

        1. avatar Danny Griffin says:

          I understand that. I was just expressing my surprise that even after Sandy Hook he could get that kind of money. Of course, there were rumors people were paying $60, $75, even $100 for a 30-round PMAG, and we all know CTD had 1,000 round boxes of 5.56 for $1,000. They are selling that same box right now for $399.

    2. avatar Andrew says:

      $7200???

      Well played sir… well played.

      Hehehe… “the derpitude” – probably the most accurate description yet.

  3. avatar Sixpack70 says:

    I think Killeen has two gun stores now from someone I know who lives there. For the most part, Guns Galore was it. They had thousands of guns available. Some of their prices were high but a lot of their rifles in 2009 were market price or lower.

  4. avatar Excedrine says:

    FN Five-seveN: recoils like a 9, but sounds like a full-house 10.

    1. avatar Wyatt says:

      And hits your target like rimfire.

      1. avatar Jacob W says:

        And hits your wallet like .45

  5. avatar bob says:

    gander prices are high. if they wanted to sell more guns/stuff they would price them at market/lower prices.

    1. avatar neiowa says:

      Got that right. The store in my area is way overpriced on firearm. Used are typically twice what should be. Maybe they want to dicker? Overpriced shotgun ammo by the case and the rest of the shelves filled with empty 7.62 steel ammo cans @ $20ea

    2. avatar Sixpack70 says:

      Last year was the first time I have walked into a Gander Mountain, it was also my last time. I wait for deals and sales on Cabelas stuff in the Gun Library. I’ve been happy so far with good prices. Some things are prices high so I wait until they come down on price a bit.

    3. avatar lowhouse5 says:

      Bingo.
      I’ve spent the last two years making sure I haven’t overpaid on anything firearms related.
      My patience has served me pretty well.
      Sure as hell not gonna start overpaying now.
      I’d go to browse but not buy.

    4. avatar Nathanael says:

      Ding ding ding! Where I live, there’s a Gander Mountain in the same shopping center as a Cabela’s. The latter is always doing much more business, so much so that I’m not sure how the Gander Mountain store stays open. I go into the Gander Mountain much less, and have hardly bought anything from them, and everyone else seems to be doing the same.

    5. avatar Matt in FL says:

      GM has pretty much the highest prices on guns of anyone in my area, as well.

      1. The local Gander Mountain reopened as a firearms super center and had the most beat up Type53 mosin I have ever seen, they wanted 250 for it. The stock was awful and the bore was so dirty I couldn’t tell how good the rifling was. I tried to talk them down figuring it might make a good project gun at the right price, but they flatly refused to negotiate.

        I haven’t been back since, their prices are comical.

    6. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

      Gander isn’t too prominent in Texas. There are only about three locations in the greater Houston area. I wouldn’t expect one on every corner, but still.

      You guys are right, they are expensive, which I’ve never understood. They have huge gun inventories even in just their regular stores. The entire back wall is a counter, plus half of the adjacent wall, too. New and used. Yet, they’re always a good 10-20% higher than Academy right down the street for common models.

      Their ammunition is expensive, too, but they do seem to have the widest variety out there, in terms of brands, calibers and type. My experience with their shotgun shells is different, though. Very affordable whether in bird or buck sizes.

      One big plus for Gander, though, is that their stores here have little conference/training rooms. They make these available for free to, among others, local Friends of the NRA groups for meeting, planning events, etc.

    7. avatar Stinkeye says:

      I’ve only been to Gander a few times, and every time I’ve been shocked at the used gun prices. Usually very close to full new retail price, for guns that have obvious holster wear and other signs of use. They had a handful of Polish P-64s they were asking $319 for last year. Insanity.

    8. avatar raw_toe says:

      I have a hard time seeing how Gander stays in business. The one closest to me is across the street from an Academy Sports, within a few miles of a Bass Pro shops and god knows how many WalMarts are nearby. Every one of those stores (even Bass Pro!) completely spanks them on price.

      I was looking for a limb saver recently… WalMart – $21, Academy – $29, Gander – $39. That kind of price discrepancy is pretty much across the board at Gander Mountain. Nice place to browse, considering the selection and the fact that the one near me is usually never busy, but it would take a hell of a deal to get my to buy something.

    9. avatar Dilby says:

      A friend of mine “works” in the gander mountain firearms department. I say “work” because he is still on the payroll and still getting discounts but actually has not worked a day in several months.

      Gander does have higher prices. No, the person behind the counter really cannot do anything about it. Corporate dictates what they charge. Gander shines in their selection and quantity. They likely have the gun you want, and another unmolested one in its box, in the back. Most people that come in to gander to buy guns are not “gun people.” They are not sure what they want and they are intimidated by a small time gun shop due to not wanting to look like they do not know anything about guns.

      I will say that they certainly are still doing their part in keeping america armed with High Capacity Salt Rifles.

    10. avatar PGT says:

      I paid $449 after MIR for an 870 Express Tactical w/ XS sights and tactical choke. I did a double-take as it was the only “deal” to be had and it was precisely what I was ready to buy (my LGS all wanted the $599 MSRP).

  6. avatar CV76 says:

    Gander mountain sucks. Their “firearms” section is bare. Shelves in disrepair and looks as if it’s managed by trolls.

  7. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    The ammo for the five-seven out of the pistol is pretty useless. After going through anything, the jacket separates from the lead and barely penetrates gelatin.

    1. avatar Danny Griffin says:

      You’re not using the right ammo.

      1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

        Last time I ran across the right ammo, the guy wanted $400 per box.
        I politely declined.

  8. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

    The concept of the 5.7 has always intrigued me, just not enough to buy one. It has occurred to me that a .44 magnum from a longish barreled handgun and a .556 round have about the same muzzle energy and the tumbling, disintegrating .556 bullet has pretty similar effects as a heavier, mushrooming handgun bullet at lower velocities. Scale down the .556 to something to 9mm+p or 40S&W power from a handgun and I’d probably be a buyer, but the 5.7 falls a good 1/3 short of that, and I’m not sure the tumbling/disintegrating effect would work at the handgun velocities. The .556 (so I’ve read) needs about 2500fps. to work properly at least with the XM193 stuff. Maybe a 4.5mm ramped up to 400+lbs/ft of energy from a 4″ barrel – 30gr. @ 2500-2600fps.? Now drop the price $250 (from the FN) and come up with some cheap ammo for less than 50 cents a pop and I’m a buyer.

    1. avatar SH says:

      “.556”? That’s even smaller than .9mm! 🙂

    2. avatar Nick D says:

      Governer,
      How does your .556 caliber ammo compare to .50 BMG? And where can I find some?

    3. avatar Dilby says:

      Check out a Rock Island .22 TCM.

      Ammo is cheap enough (~$23.00 / 50)
      Better ballistics 40gr @ 1800 fps.
      17 round double stack 1911 frame
      9mm conversion barrel included for around $600.

      I also will state that the first Fort Hood shooter was very effective with a FN 5.7. A majority of his central mass hits resulted in kills.

  9. avatar Bob says:

    FN Five-seven?

    Why would I want that? .22LR is cheaper (the gun and the ammo), more easily available, and more effective.

    1. avatar pyratemime says:

      You can find .22LR?!

      1. avatar Tile floor says:

        Past four months or so I’ve had no problem finding it it wal mart

        1. avatar Jay Williams says:

          You obviously don’t live in Tacoma.

  10. avatar C says:

    Gander mountain kinda blows. They’ve a good selection but their accountants have too much power.

  11. avatar Danny Griffin says:

    I have two Five-seveNs. It’s my carry gun 95% of the time. The other 5% is a .45 ACP or .40 S&W depending on circumstances.

    As for ammo prices, I buy cases when I can get it for $0.30 – $0.35 a round (FN 197SR plinking ammo). Unfortunately FN had some manufacturing slowdowns for a while, then the whole Obama/Sandy Hook thing happened and everything dried up. I still have about 1,000 rounds left, but need to replenish soon. I use EA ammo for SD.

    1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

      It’s plentiful around these parts. My last case was I think 20 bucks a box.
      Even the local department store has plenty. But their price is 25 a box.

  12. avatar Swarf says:

    So calling in a “man with a gun” is the new “bomb threat”? Good for you kids, ya little twerps.

  13. avatar Roy says:

    Yes, they have lots of guns, and fuckall for reloading equipment and supplies, at least in my neck of the woods.

  14. avatar Scott P says:

    The Five-seveN was designed to shoot AP ammo that we are barred from owning because of Reagan’s ban on pistol ammo with that capability. Therefore we are stuck with neutered rounds to comply with federal law.

    People would be singing a different tune about it if we were allowed the proper ammo for it.

    1. avatar Danny Griffin says:

      You’re not stuck with FN ammo, you know.

  15. avatar Rich Grise says:

    “sold both Fort Hood shooters their guns ”

    Presumably, they had their proper permission slip from Der Fuehrer, right?
    /sarc

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      I seem to recall that one of those guns, used to great effect, was the FN Five-seven. Did I remember that wrong?

      1. avatar Danny Griffin says:

        Nidal Hasan used a Five-seveN to kill 13 and wound 32 at Ft. Hood.

        1. avatar Roscoe says:

          ‘Nuff said!

      2. avatar Cliff H says:

        I have to comment, from a purely technical standpoint, that a man with a gun and lots of ammo in a room crowded with unarmed victims, who wounds more than 2 1/2 times as many as are killed, maybe doesn’t say much for the capabilities of that caliber or weapon.

        Thank goodness he did not understand that and the folks at the gun shop did not point it out to him in advance.

        1. avatar Michael says:

          Anyone know what ammo Hassan used 195, 197?
          His kill to wounded ratio was about the same as the 45 Lopez used.

  16. avatar Alex in IL says:

    I think I’ll politely disagree with the Marshal. The 5.7 was designed as a small, fast, armor-piercing round. It’s a niche thing really. It isn’t a niche that I need, but I am glad that it is available. I personally would rate it as worth 2 and 1/4 f*cks.

  17. avatar Xbonesrider says:

    GM is about the only large gun shop in my area. Prices on guns aren’t too bad, in fact I got a few good deals on a pump shottie and lever action rifle. Selection ain’t bad but ammo prices are a total ripoff. Walmart and Bass Pro are way, way cheaper. About the only ammo I buy from GM are the 7.62 spam cans. Still high but competitive once you figure in shipping.

    Once nicety is they have the GM academy training facility and it is the cat’s meow. Virtual range, live fire range, shoot/don’t shoot VR simulator room, classrooms, etc. Even our local LEO’s use it because its just that good.

  18. avatar Stinkeye says:

    FN Five-SeveN? I liked it better the first time, when it was called the TokareV…

    1. avatar Andrew says:

      I also was searching for somebody else who was thinking this…

      Although frankly the tokarev ammo is just as, if not more, expensive than that ol’ frenchy 5.7.

      Cheapest 7.62×25 I’ve seen so far on gunbot is .40 per round… 🙁

      1. avatar jwm says:

        When I had my Tok the iron curtain was still in place. If you could find a box of shells it was 15-20 bucks a box. .38s could be had for 3.50 a box and .22 was about .50 per fifty.

        None of us trusted our issue m16s so we bought just about any handgun we could find as a backup.

      2. avatar Nick D says:

        5.7 isn’t French, it’s Belgian. It comes with waffles, not crepes

  19. avatar Ben says:

    The new Cabaelas in Grandville is explain aroun enough why the overpriced Gander MTN is doing poorly. I’ll never go to a GM again after they tried to sell me a used G19 for $600!

    1. avatar LC Judas says:

      I went to one in PA a while ago. Call this 5 years or so. They had used with some heavy holster wear Glock pistols for the tune of $550 and I wasn’t too savvy but i still thought that was screwed up as Hell when I got ripped for my Glock (first gun a few years before this GM trip) for $580 new.

  20. avatar Michael says:

    Gander Mountain prices are high, often above MSRP, but they do have some good sales and exclusives.
    I like the FiveseveN, often carry it. I would like a bolt gun for it.
    Agree with the Tokarov, a modern pistol for it would be great.

  21. avatar Jordan S Zoot says:

    I had an FsN and an AR57…and lucked into 20K rounds of SS192. The FsN is certainly not anything like a .22 pistol get that idea out of your head. Having said that…I finally realized that I don’t have any real use for the pistol….its size makes it a non-choice for concealed carry, the cost of ammo makes it a last choice for plinking so it went to gunbroker.com and put $1750 back into my wallet. The AR57 is an SBR with a 10.5 barrel and uses the same 50 round mags as the PS90. It makes for a damn nice home defense carbine.

  22. avatar Sam says:

    I’ve been to 3 GM’s in Pennsylvania, and each looked like the other, empty shevles, torn up floors, bad lighting. It looked like they bought existing stores, put up some pretty signage out front and then didnt spend a dime inside. They definitely didnt look like the one pictured!

  23. avatar racer88 says:

    I have a Five-seveN. I think it’s pretty cool. Is it worth the price? Is it as “worthy” as other pistols? Maybe not.

    Here’s a thought that may be in favor of it having SOME use. What about for those who are recoil-sensitive (like my wife)? Every gun is a compromise in some way. There’s no universally perfect gun. I once made the mistake of letting a LGS sales dude talk my wife into a S&W Airweight .38-SPL snubby. What a WASTE that was! No doubt, my wife could inflict more damage on an intruder with the Five-seveN than the Airweight.

    1. avatar Jordan S Zoot says:

      Especially if you get your hands on a load of SS190.

  24. avatar dave webster says:

    Why is this article about three half-assed topics that don’t fully address any one?
    Poorly written.

    1. avatar Stinkeye says:

      di·gest (n): a summation or condensation of a body of information

      You learned a new word today!

    2. avatar Matt in FL says:

      Because its a Digest, and it’s for the smaller stories that don’t warrant a full post. Sometimes they incite discussion, sometimes not. And sometimes, the ones they just amuse me. I’m sorry it didn’t meet your lofty expectations.

      If you’d like to see any of them better addressed, you’re always welcome to submit a piece of your own. I’m having a little difficulty finding time to write lately, so now would be an opportune time for your contribution.

      1. avatar Danny Griffin says:

        How do you go about submitting a piece here? I write and publish a firearms rights newsletter. I’ve had stuff on Ammoland and other places as well.

        1. avatar Matt in FL says:

          Email to guntruth@me.com, straight into the email is fine or Word format. Whatever.

  25. avatar Steve in MI says:

    As someone who works part time at Gander, I see good and bad points. Gander is competitive on some guns (Ruger, Smith) not so competitive on others (Glock, HK) but they do have good sale prices. I’ve also seen good and bad deals on used guns, it depends on the stores gun buyer. On Ammo, they can be high and even the employees rarely buy unless there’s an add.

    BUT, Gander is the largest firearms retailer in the country. They do introduce a lot of first time buyers who can be intimidated by open carry in many LGS to their first SD firearms. They have made a strong stand for the Second amendment and didn’t price gouge during the Newtown affair like some LGS, big boxes, or web stores. They didn’t cancel orders for AR’s that they already taken deposits on or pull all their black guns off the floor like many of the big boxes. In fact they tried to get every one they could get their hands on. Are they the perfect gun shop? Probably not, but as far as big boxes go the only one that is competitive in the MW in selection is Cabelas which has a lot less locations.

  26. avatar Your Friendly Neighborhood Anon says:

    I live near the Toledo Gander Mountain store and I really like what they did with it. One of the only places that has the more “desirable” items in stock almost always.

  27. avatar SH says:

    The Five-seveN function is the complementary sidearm for the P90/PS90. By itself, I can understand the meh attitude. I owned both before the tragic boating accident and they are a fun and easy to shoot. Is it worthless if it is fun?

    1. avatar Danny Griffin says:

      This is the part I never understood. Unless you are Secret Service who have to hide the P90 under your suit coat, why would you want that over a more substantial rifle like an SBR AR-15?

      I think the Five-seveN pistol, coupled with an AR-15 SBR, are a great combo for SD. I guess the advantage of the P90 is sharing ammo, though.

      1. avatar racer88 says:

        Who said one has to choose the PS90 over an AR-15? Or any other rifle? Some of us prefer not to choose just one over the other. Why not have both? Or more? Variety is the spice of life! 🙂

  28. avatar Tommycat says:

    Gander Mountain: Meh, not a good idea to become a pure gun store, when you sell for more than anyone else in the area. Unless you’re cheaper, they’ll go where they know they’ll get the best deal. Include camping and hiking stuff, and you’ll get people who came in for a tent, and walk out with a tent, a set of boots, and possibly a new rifle.

  29. avatar Jim Jones says:

    Gander Mountain gun stores might have fared better if their ammo prices were more reasonable. They charge way too much for ammo, and that was before Newtown. The only retailer, other than Wal-Mart, that I find charges reasonable prices for their ammo is Cabela’s. Guns get people in the door once in a while, but ammo keeps them coming back often.

  30. avatar Clayton says:

    5.7 comparable to .22? because there are so many .22 that penetrate armor. I am sorry just another example of people listening to a guy because he has a youtube channel. the 5.7 has a tiny niche, as tiny as it is it is there. armor piercing with 9mm? 45ACP? good luck.

  31. avatar Roscoe says:

    Re: FN 57 video; What’s the first image I see but of a man in a t-shirt with the word “WHINY” emblazoned across the chest.

    That’s about right.

  32. avatar Ardent says:

    properly loaded the 5-7 is a wonder, a handgun capable of defeating soft body armor. With US legal ammo however it’s an underpowered under achiever beat out by anything 9mm and above. Great idea, and still useful, if one can source appropriate ammunition.

  33. avatar Shannon's Pimp says:

    I lived outside of Orlando for about two years. There are several Walmarts, one Bass Pro, Dick’s and Gander Mountain in the area. I went to Walmart all the time, the one nearest Disney had the BEST ammo prices and lots of inventory, probably due to the LOADS of tourists shopping there buying everything else. I would go to Bass Pro about twice a month. I stopped going to Dicks’s due to the ridiculous policy of asking for identification when buying firearms related items like holsters, slings, etc. I went to Gander Mountain once. Everything in that store was over priced. Ammo and firearms were outrageous as was using the very nice shooting facility there. Moreover, the help in the firearms area were less than pleasant.

  34. A common tree in Austin known to resist termites is the familiar mountain cedar (actually a member of the juniper
    family).

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