Ares Armor CEO After ATF Raid: We’ll Be Back In Biz Monday

(courtesy Russ Carlson)

Ares Armor CEO Dimitrios Karras posted an update on Facebook: “The ATF did execute a search warrant against all of our buildings today. None of our employees have been detained or arrested. We will be open for business tomorrow. We will be back up and shipping out orders on Monday. We wholeheartedly believe that they are WRONG in their actions and we will be relentlessly pursuing remedy through the courts. Quote from an ATF Agent during the raid ‘searching is fun! paper work sucks.’ Maybe the ATF thinks the Constitution is part of that paper work that sucks… Despicable behavior on their part. This is just the beginning! Thank you all for the support!” Yes, well, how many people will be ordering “untraceable” 80% AR-15 lowers from Ares now, given the ATF troll through Ares’ records? [h/t DrVino]

comments

  1. avatar Bill says:

    If I were in town and had cash in hand and a baseball cap, sure.

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      I bet they can hook you up with a baseball cap also.

  2. avatar Ben There says:

    Having some experience with ATF/Homeland Security Raids, I can say they consider the Constitution and your rights as completely irrelevant. If they want you, then they do whatever they want and the courts usually will do nothing about it. They know how to lie in an Affidavit and use weasel words to mislead Federal Judges to authorize a raid. If possible, they may well fabricate evidence after the raid. I wouldn’t put it past them to drill out some of the receivers themselves, then say that was how they seized them.

    1. avatar neiowa says:

      They work for Eric the lawless Holder. Enough said.

      1. avatar William Burke says:

        aka “Eric the Blackhearted”.

    2. avatar Nighthawk says:

      If they really are doing this and there is evidence of such, this is an actual whistle-blowing I am concerned with.

  3. avatar Tommy Knocker says:

    America disapppeared beneath the waves. The life guards never swam out to save it. Its gone.

    1. avatar Gene says:

      The life guards have no duty to protect individuals.

      1. avatar Nighthawk says:

        If that’s the case why do you put them in charge?

        1. avatar Gene says:

          Because someone has to look good with Zinca on the nose?

  4. avatar Dracon1201 says:

    Yes, well, how many people will be ordering “untraceable” 80% AR-15 lowers from Ares now, given the ATF troll through Ares’ records?

    Okay, really? Ares Armor is no safer than any other 80% lower store. To claim that Ares is the sole target is absurd. The ATF can raid any store they want apearantly.

    I might actually buy a lower from them because Ares was actually trying to defend their customer base and didn’t willingly give up the list.

    1. avatar stormchaser says:

      Since the 80% lower is not a firearm, there would be no reason to keep records and knowing about the impending raid, I’m sure there were no records of their sales.

      1. avatar styrgwillidar says:

        Cash. Cash. Cash.

      2. avatar Pablo says:

        They’ve got shipping records and card customer records. Cash is king, if you can walk in.

        1. avatar Jay North says:

          Bitcoin is even better for anonymity.

    2. avatar Paelorian says:

      Absolutely. Ares Armor founder and CEO Dimitrios Karras said in his Nutnfancy interview the other day (at 41min26sec) that they spent $20,000 on legal fees in one week! They’re righting the good fight and I would absolutely not hesitate to support their business. Though I’d prefer to pay cash if I was buying a piece of material large enough to be machined into a firearm.

    3. avatar Andrew says:

      Scary sh*t. I officially have joined ranks with the “paranoid masses” on this one – I did an 80%, from another well-established 80% provider just up the left coast there.

      The ATF’s argument hinges on the words “substantial effort” – i.e. an 80% receiver requires substantial effort to turn it into a firearm. This definition has swayed wildly back and forth over the years through various court cases with one definition (going from memory here) 40k worth of machine tools to a few hours in a home workshop.

      In their affidavit the ATF claimed that Ares was substantially in the business of producing firearms even though the ATF THEMSELVES has ruled multiple times that an 80% receiver is no such thing.

  5. avatar mrvco says:

    The best plan would be to order a box full and give them away to all your friends, family, coworkers, etc. Yeah I ordered 100, but good luck tracking them down.

  6. avatar jdb says:

    Ya know, I hope they were smart and had their data located somewhere else. If they knew this was coming they should have cleared their computers and used a VPN to access offsite data storage. Sure, the NSA could possibly watch all of that, but now a raid yields nothing but blank computers essentially.
    Regardless, the ATF could get credit card data from their merchant processor – that would offer a lot of probable purchasers.

    1. avatar Gene says:

      So,e considerations – at that point, you have to worry about where the data is stored, their laws (e.g rexords management requirements), relationship with US (you’d want that country to tellthe US ‘No’ to any requests), data tapping in international territory, reliability and availability for the transport and servers. Toigh problem to solve.

    2. avatar John says:

      Did they even know truecrypt existed? The FBI cant crack it.

      1. avatar neiowa says:

        Don’t think the Obuma branch of the NSA can’t/aren’t breaking anything in existence?

      2. avatar Will says:

        Don’t be so sure. Did you never hear the amount of funds they have invested in their digital programs? A whole division dedicated to cyber-encryption, working on encryption algorithms that make what is only legal to use within the US borders seem like a sheet of paper to a knife blade.

  7. avatar Mark says:

    Did the ATF actually get a list of Ares’s customers or not? From what I’ve read I’m not sure at this point.

  8. avatar John L. says:

    “Yes, well, how many people will be ordering “untraceable” 80% AR-15 lowers from Ares now, given the ATF troll through Ares’ records”

    One more, as soon as to get to my home computer.

    If nothing else it’s something I can do to show them support.

    1. avatar sven_va says:

      Registering my support with my wallet shortly. No interest in a lower right now, but they have some other neat stuff.

      1. avatar Other Don says:

        I’m digging the “keep calm, build on” T-shirt for all the chive fans! It kinda fits well with the moment too!

        http://aresarmor.com/store/Item/Tshirt-BuildOn

        http://aresarmor.com/store/media/ecom/prodlg/Tshirt-BuildOn1.jpg

        1. avatar Stinkeye says:

          I kinda think that shirt is a reference to the “Keep Calm, Carry On” posters from England during WWII, not a website dedicated to pictures of funny cats and jiggly girls.

          Not that there’s anything wrong with the cats or girls, mind you.

    2. avatar Michigan Guy says:

      I will be purchasing one also with a credit card for no other reason than to spite the agencies involved!!

  9. avatar Kyle says:

    If I were Ares, from this day forward I would not keep any records that link purchasers with purchase. There is no law saying that you have to keep any record for non-firearms which is what an 80% receiver is. That would piss off ATF sure, but they couldn’t do shit about it. If you keep records somewhere, despite what people think, you can be compelled to produce them.

  10. avatar Excedrine says:

    “Yes, well, how many people will be ordering “untraceable” 80% AR-15 lowers from Ares now, given the ATF troll through Ares’ records?”

    I still would. With my check card, no less. Good luck cracking a 6,500-lb. Graffunder safe, too, while you’re at it. That’s all I’ve got to say.

  11. avatar cubby123 says:

    What did you expect they are under a liberal administrstion with an Obama clown running things.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      So that’s where that money that was supposed to go to deporting illegal immigrants went! Don’t you feel safer?

    2. avatar Tommy Hobbes says:

      Do you think it will be better under a conservative administration? Does anyone think a Trump administration will rein in the abuses of ATFE? Strikes me that this agency,as others. has a life of its own and civil liberties be damned. All very sad, frightening.

  12. avatar Dirk Diggler says:

    Who says you have to use your real name or address to order one? So sayeth Mr Diggler

    1. avatar JeffR says:

      I think I am going to get an Amex gift card. I have presents to give. Now, I just have to decide where to ship them ….

  13. I would love to see the ‘restraining order’. I am surprised they did not post it on their website.

    I have no love for the ATF but I tend toward the skeptical.

      1. Thanks for that. I checked their site briefly but I didn’t see it. I admit I did not spend a lot of time searching for it.

        It certainly looks to me that the ATF violated the order. But as was mentioned in the article the order is just a piece of paper. From what I have read on court decisions the order gives the person a ’cause of action’ in court, so they will get to sue, but it doesn’t really prevent the action that is being restrained.

        Of course, in the follow-up lawsuit the court might ‘order’ the ATF to destroy all records. But how would we know if they have or haven’t….

      2. Some sites are reporting that the warrant that was served was part of a criminal investigation concerning the recent news of a group that was manufacturing firearms from 80% lowers and distributing them. Apparently the warrant may be sealed, but I would assume that the ATF had to have some type of ‘probably cause’ to connect that with Ares. If so, the entire EP Armor polymer lower thing might have been a ‘smoke screen’ to hide what they were truly after.

  14. avatar T says:

    I hope Ares products sales out and gets a boatload of customers just to spite the ATF. We stand by you Ares.

  15. avatar Jeremy says:

    “how many people will be ordering “untraceable” 80% AR-15 lowers from Ares now”?

    Well I just did, for no other reason than to show support for them and to give the ATF the finger.

  16. avatar Hannibal says:

    If I lived there I wouldn’t mind buying one. In cash. With a baseball cap, as someone above suggested.

    Just for fun, mind you, if I come within twenty feet of the machinery needed to make it operative I would probably lose a finger.

  17. avatar Shawn says:

    Can I order one of those shirts or is that just for you and your employees? lol.

    1. avatar Gene says:

      Yea, and another that says “ATF says a dimple is a hole”

  18. avatar kosherbacon says:

    EP armory, who got raided without warning a few days ago, says their customer list is safe

  19. avatar fuque says:

    Somebody will get fed up enough to fab up about 10,000 drop in Auto sears and Lighting links and dump them on the public nationwide, As an answer to these thugs and their raids…

    1. avatar Bill says:

      There are torrentable files out there giving exact, DIY instructions on just how to do this, it’s surprisingly simple, or so I’ve been told.

      1. avatar fuque says:

        Very, Very simple fab… Just takes someone with nothing left to loose and sick of the heavy handedness.

  20. avatar Ralph says:

    I’ll give my 80% lower business to Ares right after I give my credit card information to Target.

  21. avatar Accur81 says:

    I am very upset about this raid. I’ll be purchasing at least one Ares T-shirt Monday. Last year I gave about $800 to pro-gun causes / politicians and about 10x that in guns, ammo purchases, and range fees. I will not do business with anti-gun companies (I’m looking at you HK) if possible.

    Please support Ares, the NRA, Calguns, NSSF, FPC, and each and every gun company which does not willingly comply with ridiculous government statists. I pray that it goes no further than donations to pro-gun causes and court cases.

    1. avatar sota says:

      Please, educate yourself.

      The ATF consulted magazine editors, hunting guides, state game commissioners, and competitive shooting groups to determine whether certain rifles were importable under the ’89 import ban, and taking into consideration the “sporting purposes” test. On multiple occasions, the ATF asked them if rifles such as the SG550, FN FAL, AK-47, etc. had any useful “sporting purpose.” When polled directly in 1989, 0 (zero) of 14 magazine editors responded in the affirmative. When polled directly in 1997, only 2 of 13 responded that such rifles were appropriate for the hunting of medium to large game (why the ATF decided to exclude the hunting of small game from their report is not stated). Of 70 magazine articles reviewed by the ATF (again, the selection process is not described), only one described what the ATF calls “large capacity military magazine rifles,” or LCMM rifles, as being “excellent” for hunting. Two others described 7.62×39 as being acceptable for hunting. The ATF also put down the idea of action competition shooting as being sporting, for the simple reason that it wasn’t “traditional.” What else is interesting about this position paper? Well, of the manufacturers, trade groups, and so on that received letters from ATF seeking their input, exactly one company made an active attempt to stop what they saw coming. This manufacturer placed an advertisement in Shotgun News, attesting to how useful their firearms were for various sporting purposes, and encouraged owners of their firearms to write ATF with accounts of how they use their products as sporting arms. Which manufacturer was this? HK. That’s right. The one company to step up and say “This isn’t right,” was none other than the much-vilified Heckler & Koch (see page 115 of the PDF linked above). The magazine editors? A few attempted to tell ATF the truth – good for them. The rest were perfectly happy to watch “those other guns” get banned. – See more at: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/09/02/hk-hate-you-import-export-laws-vs-people/

      HK does NOT suck, and they DO NOT hate you.

      1. avatar Accur81 says:

        Still not convinced regarding HK, but that is some interesting stuff.

      2. avatar Molon says:

        The Constitution doesn’t say for sporting purposes…it says any arms…

      3. avatar Will says:

        HK delivers a mixed bag then as certain firearms are “not intended for civilian use” and any civilian version they may later produce is a bastardization of the original.

  22. avatar scoutino says:

    I wanted to show my support to EPARMORY and Ares Armor by buying couple of the 80% poly lowers, which are the cause of all this mess, but they are nowhere to be found.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      The ATF has them all. Go to Mexico; you can order from the ATF from there.

      1. avatar Dustin says:

        +1 That’s fantastic! New shirt reads:
        “I went to Mexico and all I got was a free gun from the ATF”

  23. avatar Spaceman Brown says:

    Is that T-shirt available for sale anywhere?

  24. avatar Jus Bill says:

    I wonder what they would do with a customer list that resembled the names and addresses of the legislature of a certain state in the Northeast that started with a “C.”

  25. avatar ChuckN says:

    Just think of the capital and PR Ares could raise if they
    market that shirt with their own trademark.

  26. avatar Jake Tallman says:

    The lesson I’ve taken from this is that the government absolutely cannot be trusted to obey the law when it comes to raids, especially if they’re trying to figure out who owns a gun. I guess the lesson is that you should buy firearms from the black market.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      Then you have a lot to learn, The ATF got a “clarification” to the TRO specifying that it was allowed to request and execute warrants—and that is exactly what it did. it will be interesting to see what the affidavit in support of the warrant says–if the ATF hasn’t sealed it to prevent more publicity.

    2. avatar Stinkeye says:

      The government absolutely cannot be trusted to obey the law. Full stop.

  27. avatar Maineuh says:

    That line about the constitution is a good one. Cryptic. Chilling. Right on the money.

  28. avatar speedracer5050 says:

    Ares will get my business ass soon as I can do it!! AR10 I hope in the works soon!!

  29. avatar disthunder says:

    If I end up in SoCal anytime this year, I would absolutely swing buy and throw some cash down for a lower. And I don’t even like ARs!

  30. avatar Nighthawk says:

    ATF raids Ares, meanwhile Oakland has hoods opening fire on the street and scaring off the cops, you know none of them can legally own any of the guns they have, but ATF has to go after someone selling 80% lowers? Because criminals have machine shop skills?

    1. avatar Mike says:

      ATF raids gun shops, and law-abiding gun owners, because these won’t shoot back.

      Oakland gangs, however, are heavily-armed, willing to use those arms against cops, and well-connected with local, county, and state politicians. Urban gangs are a key component of voter mobilization efforts on Election Day. Scratch my back, and all that…

  31. avatar Ontheotherhand says:

    Check out Ares Facebook page, they’re doing a pretty good job of making light of a shit situation.

  32. avatar SteveO says:

    Wouldn’t it get interesting if all of the agents, supervisors and directors who had any remote function with this type of raid (intel on customers/ list) somehow end up with having their personal information released for public viewing. Addresses, phone numbers….

  33. avatar Closet Gun Nut says:

    Well at least for once the ATF didn’t start a really big fire and burn the place down.

    See how nice they are?

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