CarrieNation

I’m going to be blunt: I’ve consumed alcohol while carrying. I have no qualms about doing so. I will continue to do so, wherever legal. Whenever I bring up my take on drinking and carrying, I get sneers. “It’s against the law! You’re going to go to jail! You should drink Coke or iced-tea!” The first two statements are patently false (at least in Texas) and the last statement elicits a proxied scolding from my retired CIO father; “You don’t have a soft-drink when you go out to dinner! What are you, twelve?” I am also convinced that whenever I break proper decorum, Letitia Baldrige rolls in her grave . . .

When I go out for oysters on the half shell and steak, I order a Stella Artois. It compliments my food, it doesn’t inebriate my mood. While some may begrudge my taste in alcohol – and to those who do, I will gladly debate the merits of my choice in beverage – others will lambaste me for the simple fact that I would even consider consuming alcohol whilst carrying a gun.

For some reason, a portion of the pro-gun community changes from Carry Nation to Carrie Nation whenever someone so much as hints at taking a sip of alcohol and legally packing. All sorts of “facts” are spouted with very little truth to back them up. It reminds me of the lies told by the temperance movement. “A sip of alcohol turns a man into a feeble-minded idiot,” becomes, “A sip of alcohol turns a Person of the Gun into Charles Whitman”.

The automated response of “Guns and Alcohol Don’t Mix!” needs to go away. It’s antiquated teetotaler dogma. Not everyone who consumes alcohol is looking to get drunk. Consuming alcohol in moderation while eating a meal or having a social drink does not significantly impair one’s motor skills nor does it sufficiently changes one’s disposition to the point that they need to be disarmed.

By now, a percentage of readers are either Googling or have already Googled the laws concerning alcohol consumption and carry in Texas because they’re certain that I’m in violation of the law. Their CHL instructor probably told them that consumption of alcohol and CCW was against state statute. Except it isn’t and your instructor injected their personal opinion into the class instead of giving you the facts. Let me save you the work:

Refer to item #35

For those of you who want the full definition of intoxicated, click here:

The law states that if you are drunk or acting like a drunk, you are in violation. If you act like a drunken ass with a firearm, you get treated like a drunken ass with a firearm. The laws regarding carry and alcohol obviously differ from state to state. Some state laws concerning guns and alcohol would make the dry politicians of the 1920s weep with joy. Thankfully, complete prohibition of alcohol consumption and handgun carry is not the law in Texas.

Nevertheless, the letter of the law will not stop some from interjecting their absolute moral certainty into a situation. A legal matter now becomes a personal one. In my experience, those arguing against carrying while consuming like to bring up familial stories in the hopes of guilting me into supporting their wrong opinion. Usually, it’s about grandpa being a habitual drunkard and shooting himself or a cousin who was jilted by their lover- and also a drunkard- shooting someone who had done them wrong. Sometimes I’ll get the rare bird, who will acquiesce. “Well, drinking while dining is one thing, but you should never carry a gun into a bar.” Oh really?

Maybe Austin’s live music scene has altered my perception, but one can go to a bar for something other than the alcohol. Also, you don’t have to get drunk at a bar. An individual can control their actions. Unbridled hedonism doesn’t have to be the ultimate Friday night pursuit, though it can be and for many walking down Austin’s beloved 6th street on any given night, it frequently is. Bully for them.

My issue is that the law was written as a one-size-fits-all solution. I don’t go out to get drunk, why should I be treated like a frat boy on his 21st birthday? I have self-control. Drinking alcohol is not the same as “getting drunk.” As it stands, I will have to keep my eyes peeled for the 51% signs, because according to some, carrying while in the presence of abundant alcohol necessitates drinking all of it until I’m in a stupor.

What it comes down to is another case of, “I support the Second Amendment but….” Your right to defend yourself does not end just because you imbibe alcohol or frequent a place where others imbibe.

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207 Responses to Guns and Alcohol Don’t Mix…Except When They Do

    • it’s suprising how many people think that you do get drunk off of one drink. i have carried and drank(only a little never go full drunkard) and even then i had to worry.there are stupid people and you may be defending yourself and it may be legal but i dont know a single person that will believe “i only had one drink” let alone a jury. they will see it as 2 drunk people shooting at each other for no reason but being drunk

      • The issue is more complex than that; I had some newly-minted Sierra Nevada Bigfoot Barleywine Ale this weekend. No big deal? It’s 9.6% abv. I can take a shot or two of 101% Wild Turkey and not be drunk, because I have familiarity with it.

        But a BEER? One of those doesn’t make you feel drunk, right? Not so, with a Bigfoot! It’s all about expectations, to a degree. I expect I can tolerate two shots of bourbon; and I do NOT anticipate feeling a certain wreckage from one beer.

        It is what it is.

    • Absolutely agree. But then, the same logic applies to drunk driving laws (and their zealous prosecution via checkpoints, mandatory vampire stops, etc).

  1. I personally can’t drink alcohol, but more power to you. Guns and alcohol can both be self-regulated with one same principle: Responsibility. Personal responsibility is paramount. It cannot be trumped, by any law, regulation, sign, piece of paper, or disgruntled looks whatsoever.

    Drink responsibly, carry responsibly.

    • I can drink- but refuse to do so when carrying. Which is pretty much always.
      I’m a lightweight. I know it. One beer and I am dizzy, with poor motor control and judgement impaired enough to know I’m impaired.
      So for me, with my physical reactions to small amounts of alcohol, I do believe that guns and alcohol don’t mix.
      As long as you can enjoy alcohol responsibly, I see no big reason for a person not to.

      • I am a lightweight as well, but I only discovered that in my youth when I couldn’t take even one shot of beer without feeling heavily inebriated – just like you apparently, so I have to say I am sympathetic to this at least!
        Unrelated to this is my personal commitment to the Buddhist Five Precepts and the main reason I don’t drink, as the texts say: “for it is the basis for heedlessness”, and I’ve had several occasions to see it proven true. Can’t really call myself a religious person, but I found something that appealed to me in Buddhism. I’m non-violent at heart, but I want to prove that one can like guns (wouldn’t be here if I didn’t), and be a normal human being while also being aware of our rights, as human beings. Some may call it God-given, others call them natural, but I digress; you guys know this already.

        With that said, the Five and my personal beliefs are just that, personal. May you and everyone else follow what you feel is best for yourselves.

    • Yup. I used to be a heavy drinker, to the point where it was getting detrimental to my health. I needed medical help to actually stop, because when I quit cold turkey I started getting seizures. So they got me through that, and I haven’t had any for a little over a year now. But on Xmas they had egg nog in the office and I figured one couldn’t kill me. And I was kind of surprised how quickly I noticed the effects on my system, and it turned out that one was actually enough; half-way through the second egg nog I quietly set it down and went back to coffee.

      So, yeah, I now know what it means to drink responsibly, and it’s just like shooting responsibly. On the 1 1/2 rum-spiked egg nogs I had, I still would have trusted myself to shoot or drive safely, but any more and I’d just stay home.

      • You have my respect for getting a handle on the thing before it took your health or anything else.

      • The fact that you went overboard for a long time, got sober, and had another drink once and sat it down without going off the deep end is extremely impressive. You have earned my respect.

        • The only part I found impressive is how sensitive to alcohol I’ve become in only a little over a years’ time. Stopping drinking when I did was really just a matter of necessity. And I’m a pothead, so I’m not missing anything in the buzz department! ;-P

        • Oh, please don’t pat me on the back for finally learning how to behave like a normal person! It only took me 65 years to reach adulthood. 😀

      • One more reason I’m voting Rich Grise 2018! (Goodness I wish I was old enough to run for VP)

        … There’s a few now. I disagree with some of your (Riches’) opinions and stated courses of action – but that means I’m an individual rather than a puppet.

        Individual responsibility and critical thinking are the basis of the American Republic. Props to you for understanding and abiding by your own limitations.

        • (Goodness I wish I was old enough to run for VP)

          I’ve been twittering Sarah Palin from time to time to ask her, but she hasn’t answered yet. Now I hear somebody’s trying to get her to run for something else somewhere; I’ll start trying to pester her again after the midterms and stuff. I think it’d be a stitch; Actually, McCain almost made a joke out of her, but when you look at what we’ve had – she’s more of a mensch than Dick Cheney and Joe Biden put together!

          And I love her malapropisms1 ‘Refudiate’ indeed!

      • Drugs and guns don’t mix! Especially from a legal perspective. It’s felonies all the way down.

    • I drink. I don’t drive. And I carry infrequently. I’ve taken a sidearm on highway trips, and I’ve never not carried on camping trips.

  2. Carrying and the drive home. Two reasons to have no more than two drinks in an evening when I go out.

  3. This is the same reason I oppose open container laws. You can drive while having a drink and not be drunk or a menace to society.

    • +1

      Open container laws are idiotic and worthy of civil disobedience.

      If you can’t be trusted to carry a firearm or drive a vehicle after a couple of drinks, it’s unlikely you could be trusted to do those things sober.

    • +2

      I think open container is little more than a traffic ticket in my state but I’ve never thought to find out. I can wait until I reach home.

      • In Montana, just make sure to hand your beer to the passenger when you get pulled over. Passengers can drink (in the vehicle) but the driver can’t.

  4. A drink while out is just that. If you order Sprite while you carry you are not only sober but likely not complimenting your food well. Drinking and getting drunk are the same amount of related as driving and The Indy 500.

    The rules for one are not similar for the other but in basic mechanisms of action. Think about it.

    • Hey! Some of us like sprite!
      And also- some of us are sensitive enough to alcohol that an “adult” drink may inhibit our ability to taste quality food… So mileage may vary.

      • Well I said that to defend an alcoholic beverage while eating. Personally, I have drunk a few hundred gallons of Sprite. It doesn’t add to any dish really.

        But I drink Sprite at dinner because a $5 drink you can’t refill for free versus a $2.30 soft drink you get bottomless is sometimes the deciding factor.

        Mileage always varies. Never underestimate the value of a heavy or light foot.

  5. Stella is also great with a steak, but I find that is has to be draft. The bottles or the cans just never taste the same so I don’t drink it at home.

    The second poster, Karina perfectly summed it up. This is all about responsibility and having a couple of drinks does not mean one is irresponsible. There’s a huge difference between enjoying a drink and getting drunk.

    • Scotch, man! A good solid scotch won’t get overpowered by any steak seasoning. Plus, it’s low-carb. It goes well with cigars, too.

      Although a Stella and steak isn’t bad.

        • A spicy Tatuaje, or anything by Pepin Garcia! Pepin blends them both (though Tatuaje is by Pete Johnson, but expect similarities!)

        • I think spiced rum pairs well with “Can I return this for credit?”

          Back in college, the roommate liked spiced rum, specifically Captain Morgan, but didn’t actually drink that much of it. I can’t stand the stuff. There were a couple quarts and a partial 750 in the liquor cabinet. One night someone brought over a handle of Captain, and it never got opened. A week later, I took that handle to the local Albertson’s liquor store and talked them into letting me return it for credit, which I then used to buy a bottle of Blanton’s. And peace reigned throughout the land.

  6. That photo reminds of an old W.C. Fields quote, “It was a woman who drove me to drink…and I never did get to thank her for it!”

    • “I always carry a little dram on the hip… in case I see a snake. Which I also carry.” -W.C. Fields

    • And for you crazed history buffs, that is a photo of Carrie Nation in her later years. A good book on her temperance crusade is “Vessel of Wrath” by Robert Lewis Taylor.

  7. Do whatever you want, however it is not an opinion that alcohol impairs judgement and reaction time; two things you don’t want if you are in a bad situation.

    If you are in a shooting and you have any alcohol in your system and the other person doesn’t guess whose word is more credible, and enjoy being described as a raving drunk at your trial.

      • Except the upside of not having spent my entire life denying myself one of life’s simple pleasures on the minuscule chance it will be used against me following a black swan event in my life.

        • Agreed. I have been carrying (at least from time to time) for 50 years now. From time to time I have been drinking to some extent (including the occasional knee-walking drunk). There were no licenses, therefore there were no rules. Never needed any interpretations since no problems ever came up-knock on wood. But I quickly understood that, sober, I would interject myself and my arm into any life-threatening attack, like a kidnapping, random shooting, etc. With a bit of booze, and then more, my willingness would devolve to engaging someone attacking ME, f**k anybody else, and beyond that to offering my arm to someone else. Note that NONE of that involves wildly waving a gun around a bar or shooting the lights out, whatever. And as a result, I have never been challenged for carrying, despite downtown NYC and DC and Chicago. After as little as one drink, depending on where I was, I determined to allow a shooter to shoot several people before I engaged, removing any incentive to prosecute me unless I shot an innocent. Make up your own rules, just be sure they make sense!

    • Perhaps you just made the most important point.

      Sometime between now and the end of the last ice age, as a young law enforcement officer, I went through a very good series of classes called Street Survival. The last of that series dealt with what happens in the aftermath of a (hopefully) justified shooting. As you point out, your blood alcohol level will be tested. You will be tested for the presence of drugs; prescription and otherwise. In today’s social world, everything on your Facebook page, Twitter feed, etc., will be evaluated. Criminally and, most certainly, civilly, all of that information will be attempted to be used against you.

      May sound fun now, but I read somewhere that that your defense costs in the aftermath of a shooting can easily run $250K. I have no problem going there if the life of someone I love or my life is mortally threatened. But I see no reason to muddy the waters in the the aftermath of what will be a life altering event.

      No, I’m not a tea totaler. I am very fond of aged single malts, hand crafted straight Burbon, and good dark craft beers. But I choose not to consume them while carrying. Note, I said I choose. My path doesn’t have to be everyone’s choice. But, just as it is an individual choice to carry a firearm, it is an individual choice to drink. You will be held accountable for both. Choose wisely.

      • And what if you have nowhere near that $250k (plus time not making fun paper) to spend? And “public defenders” aren’t exactly inspiring?

        Just sayin’.

    • I agree, except I don’t drink because I like an unpickeled liver…I don’t smoke…I don’t… nobodies perfect.

    • Not a pleasant experience, I’m sure, being described as a raving drunk at your trial. Although, it’s probably preferable to being described as a swell fellow at your funeral.

      • I’d rather be judged by twelve than turned down by those three prudes who are all wearing the same outfit…(hiccup)

    • Exactly. No one says a beer makes you irresponsible or drunk, but perception is reality in this case. If anything happens….anything, with your firearm, and you had so much as a sip, it will be impossible to convince anyone it wasn’t a factor. ‘It was only one’, or ‘It didn’t affect me’ will have absolutely no credibility.

      • When your BAC reads about .01, you can scientifically say that it isn’t a factor. After 3 or 4, it becomes a major issue. I have drank while carrying, but severely limited myself because of that fact. It is a matter of responsibility and self control, and knowing your limits.

    • I have to agree with Manimal. A couple of drinks with a good meal over a couple of hours are probably ok. but just being SEEN drinking before you are involved in a shooting will cause you a WORLD of hurt. Imagine an airline pilot have a brew with his cheeseburger at the airport just before a flight. His job is toast. Imagine a police officer in uniform having a drink with lunch while on duty, imagine a doctor having a drink with his meal before surgery. Not worth the risk in my opinion. And in the public’s eye, or in the court room you can not justify that drink if involved in a shooting. But it is your choice, and good luck to you.

      • One major difference: A police officer, a pilot, and a doctor CHOOSE to do those things after their drink. If they get smashed and kill someone (or several hundred), it is their fault because they KNEW what they were about to do. A lawful CCWer does not choose to be violently confronted.

  8. Wait a second…what’s this personal responsibility of which you speak? Who are you to think you know better than your elected representative? I’m pretty sure politicians/experts know what’s best for you as an individual.

    • I know you are being sarcastic, but it is sad that some people actually think this way. As if elected officials are all knowing. Most are self important sociopaths who know very little about anything, but are so oinonated and emotionally driven they feel a need to pass a law. This happens on both sides of the aisle.

      • Sarcastic? Moi? 🙂

        What’s most amazing to me about statist types that think govt should be in charge is that those elected officials who supposedly “know better than the people” are…people.

  9. Even if I had a solid buzz going, I wouldn’t pull out a gun for no good reason, and I don’t think most people would. I don’t drink and carry though, since I don’t think it’s worth the risk of losing my permit.

    Dead drunk, that might be different. Doesn’t matter to me personally; haven’t been dead drunk in more than a decade.

    • I forget what state it is but one allows you to carry while drunk. The stipulation is you may not handle your firearm unless you are drawing it in self-defense. And I’m perfectly good with that.

      • I think you’re thinking of Florida’s law:

        It is unlawful and punishable as provided in subsection (4) for any person who is under the influence … when affected to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired, to use a firearm in this state.

        “Use a firearm” is defined as:

        …to discharge a firearm or to have a firearm readily accessible for immediate discharge.

        “Readily accessible for immediate discharge” is defined as:

        …loaded and in a person’s hand.

        And then the kicker:

        This section does not apply to persons exercising lawful self-defense or defense of one’s property.

  10. All well and good, and I have to agree that your right to have the proper self-defense tool on your person shouldn’t evaporate because you have a beer or whatever with your steak. So take this as just a cautionary note: in something like 20 some-odd years of prosecuting and adjudicating drunk driving cases, I can’t think of one right now where the defendant intended to get drunk.

    • Good point, and I am sure you might be able to shed light on this, but those same people probably did get drunk habitually, and never intended to. In college, I never intended to get drunk, but when a party lasts 4 hours, and the beer is free, we tend to keep drinking until we are drunk. These days I know my limits, the drinks aren’t free(they are quite expensive actually). So my limit is one or two. I also hate even having a buzz to be honest. In essence I have turned into a serious lightweight, and I don’t think that is a bad thing.

  11. I limit my alcohol consumption when I’m driving and when I’m carrying. I won’t drive impaired or carry impaired. I will enjoy my alcohol responsibly while I carry, as long as it’s legal to do so.

    Ya just gotta know when to say when.

      • Of course. And I carry everywhere, because there are few restrictions in MA on where a person may carry. It’s true.

        • Partly propaganda (insert possible sh!tstorm here) and partly reality.

          I do not advocate for either party – it’s those who have already been subsumed by the establishment who advocate for two different (read as: the same barring media spin) flavors of bull excrement.

  12. Well said Michael. Like your writing style. A small amount of alcohol might relax you and make you less aggressive. It’s only in larger amounts that it becomes “canned courage.” As a career ER nurse I’ve won many sodas at work guessing peoples blood alcohols. You use alcohol in a civilized manor. The laws about alcohol indeed weren’t made for you. They were for the people who I’d associate with nights, usually tying them to stretchers. Usually if I tied them down, the Maine, New Hampshire, Texas or New Mexico police dept would leave them in my care, not under arrest or ticketed. Saved many people court time that way. Since you and I wouldn’t cross paths normally, it gives me hope for civilization that there are people like you.

  13. Don’t drink. Did in the past. Don’t care if you drink or not. I play the stupid rules. Avoid stupid people in stupid places doing stupid things. Seems to work for me.

    As to hatchet lady. Looks like my first mother in law. Maybe a little sweeter.

  14. “You don’t have a soft-drink when you go out to dinner! What are you, twelve?”

    Possibly one of the more asinine statements I’ve seen in a while. Go ahead, have those three martini lunches. I’ll be glad to negotiate my deal with you in the afternoon.

    • I’m pretty sure “three martini lunches” goes well beyond what the author was talking about here. (Though there are, of course, those that can handle three martini lunches just fine.)

      I’m equally sure you already know that.

        • God, Ralph, I love you man.

          I scrolled up looking for where I was mistaken, where the author mentioned three martinis, and I couldn’t find it. I scrolled back down to your comment, because maybe I misunder…. “OH.”

          I see what you did there. It took me a while, but I see it.

        • God, Ralph, I love you man.

          Well, I’m fond of you, too, but just plain “Ralph” will do.

  15. I view it like driving. Provided the legalities agree, if you’re ok to drive you’re ok to carry.

  16. If we trust responsible citizens to leave their firearm in their car before heading into a bar, then we can also trust them to be responsible with a firearm if they are drinking. Saying it another way, if we do NOT trust a citizen to be responsible while drinking and armed, then we should NOT trust a citizen to leave their firearm in their car before heading into a bar.

    You cannot have it both ways. Either you trust someone to be responsible or you don’t.

      • Sigh. My car has an alarm, my house has dogs. Am I asking for trouble for leaving guns locked in my house when it is unoccupied?

        The only thing asking for trouble on my car is the “Extremely Rightwing” sticker from LaRue Tactical.

        • Dude,
          Magnetic bumper stickers.
          I have a rainbow and a coexist sticker if I absolutely have to drive to Portland.
          Coexist is spelled out with guns.

        • Fun fact – bumper stickers make you more likely to be a ‘domestic threat’.

          Please, don’t believe me because I said so – look it up yourself.

          If you’re fairly paranoid, borrow a library card and still look it up.

  17. I don’t carry if I’m going to a bar. God forbid a situation arises and you are compelled to draw your weapon, forget pulling the trigger, you will be cast in an indefensible light even if you are sober as a judge and you adversary is blotto. But then again I drink at home or at friends houses. Cheaper, select company, clean rest rooms, less chance of a DWI, and no assholes who shouldn’t be allowed to say alcohol let alone drink it.

  18. My state is 0.04%BAC (MN), before you’re carrying under the influence (CUTI?). I consider that a 2 sips and done. Not a huge drinker, anyways – once or twice a year I’d get buzzed. Buying alcohol at a business cuts into my ammo budget.

  19. I treat carrying the same as driving. I shouldn’t drink too much to hinder either. If I am going out to get hammerfaced I will leave my keys and gun behind.

  20. With the recent emphasis on TTAG about avoiding giving “antis” fuel for their fire, this article seems to be wildly inappropriate. While I agree with the authors thoughts on self control and personal responsibility, that will not be the main idea taken away from this article by many people. Unfortunately, it will be “drinking and guns are fine” and that is, unfortunately, exactly the headline fodder that we should be trying to avoid.

    • Nope. I firmly disagree with that entire train of thought.

      (For the record, I disagree with the “recent emphasis” of which you spoke, as well.)

      • “This new, stricter policy – designed to deny the enemies of gun rights ammunition for their campaign of civilian disarmament – remains in effect.” Robert wrote this about a week ago in reference to ad hominem attacks. This policy was instituted because antis were trolling the comments for ammo. We shouldn’t make it easier on them by putting the ammo in the headline.

        • I think you misunderstood me. I know exactly what you were talking about when I made my comment, and that’s why I responded the way I did. I disagree with the new stricter policy, and I disagree with you that this article is wildly inappropriate, either under the newer policy or the older one.

          As soon as any policy of appeasement prevents us from having an adult discussion about adult issues, my response is and ever shall be a resounding, “Fuck that noise.” This conversation (alcohol & guns) is one that comes up regularly, and rightfully so. I don’t give two shits what some pearl-clutching, wine-swilling (but only in private) soccer mom thinks about the title of the post, and if someone tries to use it against us, well… that’s life in the big city.

        • While I agree with Matt’s attitude, I’m tending toward Mark’s POV on this one.

          I disagree that it’s a “policy of appeasement;” rather, it’s a policy of civility and it invites us to be better than our enemy. However, if the whole point of the anti-flaming policy (wow that almost sounds like a policy that encourages flaming the antis) is to have meaningful discussions without providing ammunition for the antis, then this article, while it doesn’t violate the flaming policy, definitely gives the enemy ammunition, even if it’s just a CA magazine-sized bit.

          However, it’s got some of the best comments I’ve read in a while — an actual discussion instead of 84 echo-chamber comments saying, “Yea! Gun rights! ‘Murica!” (btw, I love gun rights and am guilty of saying “‘Cause “Murica” all the time).

          Maybe this issue would have been better presented as a Question of the Day. Such a firm assertion that it’s silly to think that there might be a problem with drinking and carrying seems slightly brainwashy to me, especially when this article fails to explore the issue in depth.

        • Well, if I told Mark Smith that he was a %$@#!+= piece of %$#& and he could kiss my ^##, that would violate the new TTAG policy. But if offered to buy him a drink, that would not violate TTAG’s policy. But it would violate mine.

          Get it now?

    • I think they would probably pull quotes from the ct police thread where people were wink winking around bombing the police in a exceedingly thinly veiled way before worrying about this article.

  21. When I go out for oysters on the half shell and steak, I order a Stella Artois. It compliments my food, it doesn’t inebriate my mood.

    One word: Beck’s. Seriously, I see nothing wrong with drinking responsibly. It’s a sign of maturity.

  22. You sir are plain downrite wrong. You have no such right to defend yourself when you have drunk the demons rum. Although not complete your right is suspended when :

    You are tired
    You have taken a prescribed medicine
    You have a disability
    You are angry
    You are in the dark
    You don’t know your assailant
    You are not the same sex as assailant
    You are gay
    You are not gay
    You might be gay
    You are big (no jokes pls)
    You are a woman
    You are a Veteran with PTSD
    You are a veteran without PTSD
    You are a Republican
    You are a communist
    You are a Democrat (hmmm I have to think about this one)
    You go to art galleries, museums, or listen to operas.
    You drive too fast
    You take a plane
    You take a train
    You take a bus
    You believe in Bigfoot (or the Blue Fairy and Tinker Bell)
    You have seen a UFO
    You are a Democrat (yeah I do think that needs to emphasized)

      • And you know what? I have actually heard just about every one of the above in conversations thru the decades. Serious ! How freaking crazy is that?

        As a sidebar, I have about as much respect for the Kennedy family as I do a bunch of cockroaches in the kitchen. BUT all this past week I listened to one of the tribe being prosecuted by a New York DA for taking a sleeping pill just before jumping in her car in a rush. She crashed her car on a crappy highway early in the morning. The jury dismissed the case in about 6 minutes of deliberation. She faced a YEAR IN JAIL as a result. As I write this, I have 6 bottles of all sorts of medication in front of me. You think in the last couple of years, I haven’t taken a pill I should not have? Of course I have. But to think that some such error could help send me to jail is sickening.

        It just goes to show you how the legal system is wiling to use WHATEVER IT NEEDS to prosecute you. So I just warn everyone to be prepared if you are involved in a DGU. They are going to crucify you.

        • That was “interesting” Who in the dem establishment did she piss off? Vote for a Republican? Speak ill of Hillary? Has to be a back story.

    • Great list! However, I’ve got a couple more:

      -You are too old.
      No offense to the very OFWGs out there, but plenty of older folks are permanently “impaired” by the natural aging processes. As we get older, our senses become dulled, our motor skills fade, and our critical thinking abilities erode away.

      -You have been struck in the head
      Depending on the severity, a hard hit to the head can impair you more than a case of beer. You better not use a gun to defend yourself if you’ve been punched in the face or had your head bashed against the pavement.

      We shouldn’t lose our right to protect ourselves because we don’t have the physiology of an Olympian rocket scientist. In no way do I advocate drinking and carrying, but I think there is is a certain recklessness in defining these arbitrary circumstances limiting when people can and can not carry a tool to defend themselves. If a criminal knows about the limits created by these laws, it makes picking defenseless victims easier.

  23. reloading and alcohol definitely do not mix. the grandpa of a buddy of mine reloaded an entire batch of .308 while drinking heavily. long story short, an entire batch of .308 was loaded with no powder.

    now carrying while drinking… just know your limit and carry on.

  24. Here’s the problem.

    We know that alcohol doesn’t turn someone into a stark raving maniac.

    That being said, Suzy Soccer Moms idea of “responsible consumption while armed ” is .00 BAC . That can be a problem if a mugger decides to make you a target at Zero Dark Thirty . Let’s assume factually that booze or no, the bad guy brought his own demise on himself. The prosecutor will likely disagree when your BAC comes back post incident. Consider the civil tort side, which regardless of your criminal case , it can be argued that you shot a poor “honor student ” in cold blood because you were ‘drunk’.

    And your jury will be 12 people who think guns and booze never mix under any circumstances.

    There’s gambling, and then there’s drinking and carrying.

    • “We know that alcohol doesn’t turn someone into a stark raving maniac.”

      Based on 32 years as a law enforcement officer, I respectfully and whole-heartedly disagree with that statement.

      • Whelp, my 21 years in LE has taught me something different. That stupid people who make bad decisions do so regardless of being under the influence. I will grant you they do seem to make stupid choices more easily when drinking. But many people drink responsibly and never have a problem.

        • 13 years in LE, here. Alcohol just removes inhibitions. It makes a$$holes even bigger a$$holes, but doesn’t turn decent people into psychos.

  25. Carrie Nation’s wearing her purse like primitive body armor. Can’t believe anyone was going to take a shot at THAT.

  26. I had the pleasure of getting three minor in possessions. I had to attend alcohol school for each offense.

    They did the cone zig zag driving thing w/o any alcohol then ramped it up, in a huge open lot of course.

    Whether you believe the “states” experiments or not, it was proven that one (1) drink impairs your driving, specifically in the lap times and control through the cones. If one beer can cause you run over a cone, can it cause enough, though little, judgement impairment while you CC……..? Not in the you are going to shoot up the joint (funny) way, but your reaction time protecting your loved ones.

    • Like I said, pretty much no one intends to drive while impaired. It still happens all the time. And it ain’t the “dead drunk” ones who cause the accidents so much, they are the ones who never make it out of the parking lot or fall asleep at the traffic light. It’s more the ones who are “buzzed”, solid or otherwise. But I don’t drink at all, so maybe my perspective is lacking.

  27. In the FL we cannot carry in a bar. hey you know yourself better than anyone drink to a level you feel comfortable with and i won’t argue.

  28. When I went through the CHL class in Texas the phrase ZERO TOLERANCE was emphasized. It was explained that if you are stopped while carrying and are found to have alcohol in your system, even below .08, you could lose your CHL. Correct me if I misunderstood this.

    • That’s not correct, and he probably told you incorrect info. You aren’t allowed to be intoxicated (no specific BAC is stated though). Mine was taught by former law enforcement(old school LE; the kind that if you had to get pulled over you would want it to be this guy) so he really harped on exactly what the law was. He basically told us that drinking while carrying probably wasn’t a good idea though since he recognized that some cops could go on a power trip and claim you were “intoxicated,” and if there was alcohol in your system it would be your word against his.

      • What he said.

        There’s no stated BAC in the law for drinking and carrying, or an outright “no drinking allowed” clause.

        But, there is that highly subjective word, “intoxicated.”

        Drink and carry at your own risk , just make sure to carry bail money too.

  29. In Iowa your free to drink and carry and even sit in the bar side of the bar up until you’re blowing .08% BAC. Seems to make sense to me, a motor vehicle in the hands of a drunk is just as dangerous as a firearm.

    • Likely the once a year New Years Eve drunk is WAY more of a hazard that anyone else. Why I ALWAYS stay home Dec31.

      This same “zero” PC bilge is also rampant with “experts” in the fire service and similar impact. Sat night and have smelled a beer within 8hr should not respond to a fire call. Should let the neighbors house burn to the ground rather than respond. Not even if perhaps riding rather than driving the BRT. More Progressive BS,

      • A couple of years ago I actually got pulled over at 1:30am on January 1 because one of my license plate lights had burned out. Fortunately I had quit drinking around 10:00 and probably would have blown about a .02% by the time I left. The LEO didn’t even ask if I’d been drinking, but I bet any other night of the year and he’d have never pulled me over.

        I think the zero tolerance BS is mostly due to our litigious society. Everybody’s looking for any excuse they can find to sue someone.

        • Well… how much difference is there, really, between those Mad Mothers, and Shannon Watts’ crew? Both want to relieve you of personal responsibility, and make the State your Lord and Master.

      • I feel the same way. And add St. Patrick’s Day, coming up. I choose not to drive. I drink. At home, or at a friend or neighbor’s house. I will ride drunk, but not drive. That’s how I got to be 66 (tomorrow).

        Anyway, NYE and SPD are for amateur drunks, strictly. They disgust me. If I’m home, I know when to stop and go to bed.

  30. I don’t drink and drive, not even one drop.

    My company insures myself and my truck, so I must maintain a good driving record, or I’m looking for new employment. Legal limit or not, it’s just not worth it, so I’m always DD.

    Same goes for carrying while out and about, legal or not, it’s just worth not it. My gun insures my safety or my family’s safety, having a drink with dinner isn’t important enough to risk that, so I’m alway DC (designated carrier.)

    Now, having a few while I’m carrying at home, that’s another matter all together.

    I’m plenty comfortable with that, nothing like some steaks on the grill, a beer in the hand, and gun on the belt. ‘Murica!

  31. I drank until 2000, then had to give it up because of medications. Alcohol effects different people in different ways. No rule can apply to everyone. There were times that I would have received a DUI, if I had been stopped. I wasn’t carrying at the time (lived in Kalifornia then)
    Why do you suppose pilots are restricted so much when it comes to drinking before their flight? If you carry and drink at the same time, you are flirting with disaster. You will probably get by without any problems most of the time, but why take a chance, it’s a gamble that could cost you heavily.

    • Because a large % of “aviators” are marginally responsible frat boys with impulse control issues? In particular including those that came out of the military postwar when the FAA regs were written. “Crewrest” being established as the period before the next flight for getting drunk and deflowering hot young stewardess (this being long long ago before “flight attendants” when a stewardess was an attractive biological woman).

      • I’ve read about this. It’s true, it seems. I must say, I’d prefer a buzzed veteran of 30,000 hours piloting my plane than a 5000-hour, antsy, wet-behind-the-ears one, in a nasty situation, such as the Sioux City landing.

        Not saying they were impaired. Likely they weren’t. But I am amazed at how many lives those brave flyboys saved that day, while plowing through an Iowa cornfield.

        • I see you don’t know much about aviation. A guy with 5000 hours is no dewy eyed kid. Let take a Navy P-3 jockey. 5000 hours equates to about 3 years of flight time or six deployments. That would make a squadron commander. Hardly a newby

      • Nah. The “no drinking within x hours of flying time” was a demand of the stewardess union, who complained that drunk pilots couldn’t get it up. As for de-flowering, don’t think many of them had flowers.

    • Why do you suppose pilots are restricted so much when it comes to drinking before their flight?

      Because we don’t want them high at 35,000 feet.

      Wait. Let me rephrase . . . .

  32. I don’t mind someone drinking responsibly (that is not getting drunk) and carrying or driving. As long as you don’t overdo it.

  33. I am among the tried-and-true shooting tipplers. I can’t recollect ever shooting in my adult life without a mild snootfull. Or worse. But I’m fortunate if I shoot twice in five years, so I like to make a fun time of it.

    No one has come even close to being shot. Some targets were narrowly missed, but an excellent time was had by all.

    Okay… I’m not an oyster fan. Rockefeller-style was the last time I’ve had some, probably 30 years ago.
    A big ocean scallop fan, YES I AM! I had Thai last night, THAI HOT (“not for blue eyes”, as a waiter at Thai Taste in DC once tried to convince me; FU! I want what YOU eat, a-hole!). And I got it last night. Hoo boy. My birthday dinner. It rocked.

    But if you want a wine with oysters on the half (though I’m not so much a wine guy today, I used to manage a wine store), try something like a crisp Sauvignon Blanc, or even a spicy Gewurtztraminer.

    • I’m fortunate if I shoot twice in five years

      Twice in five years? Are you sure you’re talking about shooting a gun?

        • Wow. If I go more than 2 weeks without smelling burnt powder and hearing metal sing, I will call in with an eye problem.
          I can’t ‘see’ myself coming in to work.

  34. Two things. First off, in Belgium, Stella is the beer you find lying at the bottom of the metro tracks in a paper bag or in clusters of empty cans in the bushes behind the schools. I lived there for two years so I have a little experience. Maes and Jupiler were held in higher esteem. That said, I grew up like every one else here in the States drinking Miller and Budwieser and dammit, I like Stella. My problem is paying “premium import” prices for it. So don’t apologize for drinking it, just know that you’re paying too much for it.

    Second, carrying while drinking. I applaud you for taking the stand. Certainly that will be differnt for anyone and if you do, you take on an additional responsibility. But IMHO, no different than when you decide to drink and then drive. You have to be mature and know your limit, in other words – moderation. Not everyone can handle it. It’s not for everyone. And we all here about the cases where a person got drunk and bad decisions are made. But in truth, that happens anyway.

    • Stella is the beer you find lying at the bottom of the metro tracks in a paper bag or in clusters of empty cans in the bushes behind the schools

      So see also Fosters, Corona……. Amazing the results from just jacking up the price “marketing”.

        • When I lived in Taos, the Walgreen sold Tall-Boy Becks in the 4-packs, made in Texas (Pearl Brewery?) for under $4. Less than 3 years ago.

          It wasn’t up to the Rheinheitsgebot Krautbrau quality, but it wasn’t bad at all. My daily regimen was a quarter-pint of Wild Turkey and a 4-pack of Beck’s. I can’t find quarter-pints in Virginia. Which is a shame.
          a quarter of the WT is just perfect; I don’t enjoy much more that that.

          What is this, THE TRUTH ABOUT HOOCH?

      • You guys seem to think that Bud and a Miller don’t get exported to the world as “the American beers”, making everybody and their brother worldwide think that American beer sucks. What I wouldn’t give for a good Stone Brewery keg when I am traveling…in any case, this is the case everywhere.

        I think it’s a rule somewhere that the only beers a country can export have to be the crappiest/lowest common denominator brews. It’s a tragedy. Fixing this would do more for world peace than Gandhi, Mandela, and Ron Artest combined.

    • ANY import is going to cost you more than in the country in which it was produced.

      You pays your money and you takes your choice. Was that POGO?

      Here in VA, the Sierra Nevada Bigfoot Barleywine Ale just arrived. A seasonal brew, 9.6%. Take care when consuming! I got some for my birthday, plus Young’s Double Chocolate Stout, a spectacular brew, if you’ve ever had one. If you ever have, you know. I’ve had several Chocolate Stouts, and this is head and shoulders above the rest.

    • All beers are swill since Hamm’s, Lone Star and Dixie stopped brewing their own.

      And please — never, ever pour me any of that Anchor Steam sh1t. It actually tastes like it might be steam from an anchor.

      • Ralph, I remember Hamm’s, “From the Land of Sky Blue Waters”, originally from MN. Then brewed by Olympia, (“the Coors of of the Columbia River Valley”/sarc), and now by Miller. I drink the High Life on occasion, as I do PBR. Both made at the same brewer now, apparently.

        I also fondly recall National Bohemian (“Brewed on the Shores of the Chesapeake Bay”). Now mostly unavailable in Central VA, but on tap at the Washington Nationals’ ballpark…

        But today, I’m sippin’ on the Sierra Nevada Bigfoot. “Heady” doesn’t begin to describe it.

      • The Hamm’s commentary brings back some pretty vivid memories, for sure. Funny thing – I didn’t much care for beer when I was younger and would actually prefer to sip from the huge bottle of Gilbey’s gin that my grandfather kept in the root cellar.

        He also had a 12pack of Hamm’s in the basement fridge at the farm that sat there for a good ten years. At LEAST ten years. i think I might have been around 16 or 17 at the time I finally decided to partake of a can, and man let me tell you that was NOT a refreshing taste at all!

        Fast forward almost 30 years and I can chuckle about it now and enjoy a cold pint of Coors at this very moment, but back then it didn’t seem so amusing.

        Tom

        • Coors. The beer for Americans who love their beer sans any flavor. Same with Olympia. WTF IS it with Americans who “like” beer, if it has no flavor whatsoever? That’s why Coors Light is such a joke… a flavorless beer, with the flavorlessness taken out!

          When it comes to beer drinking, Americans are total weenies. Go to GB for beer, ale and stout. Go to the Czech Republic, or Deutschland. But Europe, Japan or anyplace abroad is NO place for American “beer” “enthusiasts”. GOL DANGIT.

  35. I like beer a lot, but I’ve never had so much of it that I thought my beer was complimenting my food.

    Ms. Stella to Mr. T-Bone: “You’re looking really hot tonight!”

  36. In Virginia, one may not consume at all while carrying concealed, but may drink as long as not to drunkenness while OC’ing. The commonwealth has a lot of asinine liquor laws

    • That one irritated the crap out of me (who doesn’t own an OWB holster) when I was last there, as my friends and I spent one full day doing brewery and winery tours. I was driving, so I was already sipping low and slow, and I ended up just leaving my gun at home, because tucking my shirt behind my IWB just so I could drink seemed stupid.

  37. Pennsylvania has no law whatsoever regarding intoxication and carrying a firearm. There is no restriction on going into a bar or restaurant that serves alcohol, while carrying under a Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms.

    Somehow doesn’t seem to be a problem. If people are dumb enough to get inebriated and do stupid things with guns, they tend to find themselves prohibited persons pretty quickly.

  38. The vast majority of all anti-drinking laws come from the same source, the temperance union types, who are dead-set against anybody drinking. Ever. If they had their way, they’d put the Pope on a 12-step program. And driving a car would be like flying an airplane: 12 hours, minimum, bottle to throttle.

    That’s why almost all alcohol regulation is so absurd. The people writing the laws have an irrational view of alcohol consumption, and they don’t have a clue where their religious dogma ends and where public safety begins.

    Do you only carry the spare tire in your car when you intend having a flat? Or remove it if you’ve had brew or two? Me neither. Nor do I disarm, ever, unless there’s a metal detector or a pat-down coming my way. Even if I’ve had a couple.

    • DAMN! You’re a man after my own heart. ENOUGH prissy lawyer nonsense! ENOUGH of Mothers Not Minding Their Own Business…..

  39. It wouldn’t surprise me if many people who drink a fair amount daily believe they can’t shoot well if they haven’t had at least a wee dram. I’ve seen that. Perhaps they are right. As to what amount is fair, that depends on the judge.

    • Yeah… I’ve thought I couldn’t shoot straight while tippling. And proved myself wrong.

      I’ve also thought I could shoot good while sober. And proved myself wrong.

      Good things are complicated, I guess.

  40. Sounds like no one here has ever truly lived. Not once have I heard the glorious MD 20/20 mentioned. I thought all the fine taste in firearms would extend to a fine taste in alcohol. Color me disappointed.

    • HAHAHA! My good friend, the musician Michael Hurley (now living in Portland, OR), had a van he toured in, named ANNIE GREEN SPRINGS!!! Remember that one? I never touched the super-cheap stuff… well, maybe once or twice, at a Fiddler’s Convention. When my lips were dry. And the moonshine had run out.

    • In my youth, when money was scarce we drank stuff like Brown Derby beer, Mad Dog, Tyrolia, Spanyada, Boone’s Farm. All the weed we could get then(before I enlisted) was local grown and not much account. Cocaine was out of our price range and needle scared me.

      We were paying 10 cent a bottle for San Miguel beer in the PI. Now it’s imported and no doubt a little more expensive.

      As regards Hamms and Olympia beer. Hamms had the logo”From the land of sky blue waters”. Hamms had a cartoon bear for a mascot. Oly had the logo “It’s the water” with a stylized waterfall with a lucky horseshoe around it.

      I had a T shirt that had the Oly waterfall and the slogan “It’s the water” with the Hamms bear standing there pissing into Oly’s fabled water.

      • @jwm

        They took the formaldehyde out years ago and even have a premium brand for San Miguel now. It’s not that bad.

    • I knew some homeless alcoholic bums who wouldn’t touch Mad Dog.

      Personally, I was weaned on Thunderbird. Not that stuff is nothing more than strained panther piss with a splash of rubbing alcohol.

      • Never stooped to either. Close, though, on a road trip to the Berryville (VA) Bluegrass Festival. RIP, Carlton Haney, greatest promoter ever.

      • They ain’t no bragging rights to drinking Mad Dog or Thunderbird. Just ain’t.

        I had an uncle that made world class shine. My mother and the other church going members of the family forbid me to see him. I snuck over and saw him every chance I got. He had no problem at all letting a 12-13 yo have a pull off the jug. He also somehow managed to aquire a tommy gun and half a case of pineapple grenades. There was a lot you could get away with up a holler in WV.

        That man could not take anything in life serious. I still miss him. Every kid should have one crazy uncle.

  41. I often do when I’m at home(unlawful to carry at .02 and above In my state) but as was stated by the writer, having a single drink or two with dinner is extremely different than getting drunk.

    Once I start to feel the effects at all, I’m done, like to be able to keep a fairly level head at all times.

    • I don’t believe the wee toke is near as damaging as alcohol. I don’t do either these days but I had some experience with them in my younger days. My wife, a church going tee totaller who has never drank or toked thinks weed, at least, should be legal.

        • <stoner joke>
          This stoner was cruising down the freeway, minding his own business, not speeding or anything, and he sees the gumball machine. “Oh, Sh!#.” So he rolls down all the windows and lights a cigarette. “Evening, officer.” “Evening, sir. Do you know how fast you were going just then?” “Uuuummm, seventy?” “No, guess again.” “Uuuuummmm, seventy-five?” “[suppressing a chuckle]No, you want me to tell you how fast you were going?” “Uuuummmm, yes please?”

          (pause for effect)

          “SEVEN MILES AN HOUR!”
          </joke>

      • As a pothead, I know I’d be at least as reluctant to go driving or shooting while stoned as I would tipsy.
        Other than that, pot is harmless. It just makes you feel good and makes everything funny. The Puritan-driven drug warmongers just hate to death the fact that pot causes pleasure and there is no built-in punishment. So, to be nice obedient little minions to their God, it’s their self-righteous duty to see to it that we get punished for our sin of pleasure without consequences.

        And the bloodthirsty warmongers fear and hate it because it makes us peaceful.

        I think that’s what they fear about Libertarians – our secret plot to leave you alone.

        • “Puritan-driven drug warmongers”

          DAMN! You nailed THAT one, Rich! Even my gun-despising “Liberal” friend if 45+ years agrees that ‘Merica never totally shook off her Puritan beginnings.

          Of course, *I’M* the REAL Liberal, in the true, Jeffersonian sense of the term.

  42. Thank you. I knew I couldn’t be the only one who carries and drinks simultaneously. Out to dinner or a social meeting, I’m going to get at least one or two scotches neat. A couple of drinks are not going to obliterate my self control, nor am I just going to whip out my iron and wave it around while rambling. Even while inebriated I still know what the consequences are for acting foolish.

  43. Some people can have a few with no problem. Some people try to open the airplane door at 30,000 ft. because they took the first one. Texas lets the individual decide. Personally, I would rather that people not carry if they are consuming alcohol but that is not a decision I can make for anyone but myself.

  44. I live in Georgia, where you can drink all you want while carrying, and the only offense while intoxicated is discharging your weapon, except in the defense of life, health, and property. Of course, waving your pistol around and pointing it at people is already illegal and it shouldn’t matter whether you’re intoxicated or not, so Georgia law is very logical and lets the adults be adults. Hopefully the new pro-gun legislation passes here so that I can carry in churches and bars, among other benefits.

    • A very sane, bright attitude. You go, Georgia! More states need to follow this sort of rational approach.

  45. 1. In CA it is neither against the law to carry in a bar nor while drinking. Technically not even while intoxicated…yet the standard DOJ application for CCW says it is prohibited in both of those cases. This is actually nonsense. The Sheriff can add restrictions to a license, not the DOJ. I think by inserting a non-law as if it were a law into the standard app, they effectively make a new law without legislation!

    2. All those whose main worry is, but it will hurt my claim of self-defense! I have a beer or even several. Head to bed and a man breaks into my daughter’s room, and attempts to rape her. Oh well, I had a few beers, cannot take action! That is nonsense. And in clear cases, the DA can go screw himself for even trying that tactic.

    3. My rule would be the same as with driving. For me, that means a couple of beers is fine, depending on strength, size, if I am eating with it. If I am going to drink more than that, it will be at a social gathering (wedding e.g.), and I would not carry then (though I doubt anything bad would result, aside from legal issues if spotted). But then that is a calculated risk. I don’t not drink that much except at social events because of the carrying issue, but because such drinking alone is dangerous in its own way. Conviviality is my rule.

  46. “Conviviality”. If you haven’t read it, read TOOLS FOR CONVIVIALITY, by the gentle, joyful anarchist author, Ivan Illitch, who also wrote CELEBRATION OF AWARENESS, and other great books!

    • One of my crazy inner voices claims that I’m Jesus’s crazy brother who got locked away in the basement and nobody’s been allowed to talk about. And I’ve got new information from the Father of Manifestation: No, you are NOT your brother’s keeper. Your brother is your brother’s keeper. Mind your own business and play with whoever you want to however you want to. It’s OK to share stuff and do group projects and everything, whatever comes up between whoever want to do it together.

      And that “go to heaven after you’re dead” schtuff is a trap. It’s death itself that’s Hell. What we’re supposed to do on Earth isn’t to make our soul worthy to enter heaven – your spirit is immortal anyway. But our task is to pull down enough of the riight kind of healing spirit essence to power our Will-body to transform us from self-replicating to self-sustaining.
      </One of my crazy inner voices>

  47. Hey!!!! I just figured out how to solve this. Govt mandated breathalyzer interlocking safety! You know, a smart gun that measures your BAC. Man, this is great. Thinking like a libtard fixes everything. Next problem please…

  48. Your take is correct in one sense though false in another. IF you take one drink then have to use your firearm, you will end up in court because that will be “prima facie evidence” that you were intoxicated. I know it’s wrong but the lawyers will say that. You’re welcome to your beer with dinner but I won’t do it, just as I won’t drive after one drink. There is too much wiggle room for the lawyers in the Texas ccl handbook on alcohol for me to take the chance.

  49. I feel about this the same way I do about drunk driving, pot, and any number of activities that get called out periodically. “Innocent until proven guilty” is the good and right way to deal with such things. If a person can responsibly balance risks like driving, carrying a firearm, becoming intoxicated…etc, then they don’t pose a risk to society. It’s the idiots who do the damage that should suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous incarceration. I’m all for more freedom for the responsible. Everyone’s limits are different. We should judge people by their actions and not the fear there of—which is when we’d be calling them on their behavior anyway.

  50. I don’t mix alcohol and gunpowder; Tastes like h*ll and don’t shoot worth a darn either……. Just sayin.

  51. Well said sir! And articulated in exactly the same way I have been thinking for some time now on both the drinking drink and the carrying front!

    I rarely drink to get drunk, the cost of doing so stopped being worth it to me shortly after my 21st birthday, a time that mysteriously coincides with me beginning to experience hangovers and some additional maturity….

    It’s a matter of personal responsibility just like everything else we like tout about the way of the gun. If you begin to consume more than is legal to have consumed while carrying, unload it and lock it up! Not taking proper precautions for such an eventuality is not an excuse. You can have a lock and a soft case stashed under your car seat for just such an occasion. For $20 or less on top of it! It’s a measure I have used successfully many a time.

    If stashing your firearm isn’t an option because of your locale, well take some responsibility and don’t be a drunken idiot because you can’t do it responsibly! It’s not hard!

    I must posit the question: If you lack the will to refuse drink/set a limit, do you posses the faculties of responsibility to be carrying in that same situation?

  52. I’ve often wondered why some people carry guns habitually. I’ve finally concluded that there is one main reason: these people feel that they need a gun everywhere they go because they always feel weak and frightened, everywhere they go. Guns make them feel big and strong.
    It doesn’t surprise me that many of these frightened people also consume alcohol or some other kind of drug while they’re carrying guns. They need the emotional boost. Poor things.
    It must be awful to feel weak and frightened, and, although I feel sorry for such people, I do however stay away from them. I’m more attracted to people who do not rely on outside props like guns and drugs. I find them to be nicer people anyway.

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