Scott Beason & Bobby Timmons courtesy abc3340.com

“I don’t think this has anything to do with the second amendment rights when you have the right to carry a weapon off your property. An automobile is not a part of your home. It’s a part of the public property when you get out on it.” That’s from Bobby Timmons (right above), Executive Director of the Alabama Sheriff’s Association, speaking out against a bill that would allow the carry of loaded handguns in vehicles without needing a concealed carry permit. This bill follows on the heels of one passed last year that allows unloaded handguns to be carried in cars without a permit. There are no restrictions on loaded long guns. The bill’s sponsor, Sen. Scott Beason (left above), says that the castle doctrine should extend to your car, and that the current law doesn’t make sense. “It doesn’t do you any good if it’s unloaded, out of reach, out of the way,” said Beason. The senate committee will vote on this bill next Wednesday. Read on . . .

Your Lockdown of the Day™ is brought to you from Brevard County Florida, where Viera Charter and Viera High were in lockdown for most of the school day Friday due to a man with a gun outside the nearby Viera courthouse. The man arrived sometime before 10:30 and was waving a gun in front of the courthouse, alternately pacing and sitting on the curb, while occasionally yelling at police. As the day progressed, the story developed that he had previously made threats against the courthouse and judges. Police spent the next several hours attempting to negotiate with him, unsuccessfully. During this period police received a call from a relative telling them “he was on the way to the courthouse and he was coming here to do harm and that this was going to be it.” Shortly before 1 p.m., during a period when the man had the gun tucked into his waistband, BCSO SWAT moved in and attempted to subdue him using nonlethal means (apparently Tasing him at least twice), but “he responded to that in an aggressive fashion. Our team responded with lethal fire and he is deceased at the scene,” according to Sheriff Wayne Ivey. Viera High’s lockdown was lifted at 2 p.m., while Viera Charter, which is directly across the street from the courthouse, remained on lockdown for a while longer.

A small section of I-80 in Nebraska was closed for a few hours Thursday morning after a security forces team out of F.E. Warren Air Force Base lost some ammunition. The security forces team lost “a small amount of 40 mm ammunition from the back of a humvee” as it was traveling through the F.E. Warren missile field. The rounds are not expected to cause any damage, and Nebraska DOT and Highway Patrol are working with F.E. Warren personnel to look for remaining pieces. [Yes, I included this story just so I could link to the map I made a few years ago when I got fascinated by these things. I also did one for Malmstrom AFB in Montana and Minot AFB in North Dakota. Days were lost.]

It’s been said before, but a good belt might even be more important than a good holster in a carry rig. A quality belt can make even a crappy holster acceptable, while a crappy belt can make it uncomfortable to wear the best holster in the world.

Washington state senators voted a bill out of committee Friday that would, according to King5.com, “restrict gun rights without a felony conviction for the first time in state history.” ESHB 1840 would require anyone named in a protective order, who was also in a separate proceeding deemed a “credible” threat of “bodily injury or death”, to surrender their firearms. To fall under the purview of the bill, a victim under a protective order would have to prove they’re likely to be harmed again, and a judge would have to file a second ruling, separate from the protective order, finding the person in question a credible threat. The bill passed the House unanimously, and now will go back to the Senate floor for a second reading.

Some folks were less-than-impressed with Jerry Miculek’s long-range pistol shots (revolver upside down at 200 yards and GLOCK 41 at 215 yards), so he amps it up a few more notches by backing off to 400 meters (~435 yards) with his 3-gun setup S&W M&P 9 mm.

I’ve run out of superlatives for this guy.

88 Responses to Weekend Digest: 25 Feet Of Holdover Edition

  1. Did I read that right? If I take my car out in public it then becomes public property? Can I just borrow a sheriff’s deputy car any time I want for a while to test this theory of a car in public is public property?

    Does this also mean I have no 4th amendment rights while driving my car according to this guy?

    • Re: the Fourth Amendment, I’m sure if this guy pulls you over that he doesn’t need probable cause for a search.

      After all, if you have nothing to hide, then you won’t mind me looking around a little bit…..

      • He may not THINK he needs PC to search, but…

        Pretty sure the courts have ruled consistently that your vehicle is an extension of your home in regard to the 4th Amendment protections, and yes, they do in general need PC to search if you do not give consent.

        So, basically, Bobby Timmons is full of feces and it is downright scary that he has anything whatsoever to do with Sheriffs.

      • Why do I get the feeling that you don’t have anything to worry about as long as you’re a part of the Good Ol’ Boy Network?

        • This.

          In southern small towns especially, whether or not you have rights largely depends on whether you’re the right skin color and went to high school with the guys who are on the force. Still a lot of small, insular communities down there that are…chilled…towards minorities, outsiders, etc.

    • We’re talking about the opinion of a cop here, the people who are absolutely the least qualified to speak on matters of actual law on the effen planet. They aren’t hired if they are smart, they are hired to be a goon squad for those pols who’s interests they serve.

      Despite all the court rulings to the contrary, this pathetic thug believes that he can do anything he wants to ‘little people’ and get away with it. Because sadly, he has so far in his career.

      I’d post a dozen cites supporting the ‘expectation of privacy’ in ones’ ride, and the others that show the car as an extension of the home, but if you’re interested you’ll look them up yourself.

        • C’mon man. AL isn’t the headquarters of Mensa for a reason. Doesn’t mean there aren’t some smart folks from there, but just like East STL, it isn’t a brain trust and the science proves it…

        • Gun rights have come a long way in Alabama in a short amount of time. That puts them ahead of half of the rest of this country. But thanks for contributing an unthinking stereotype to the discussion.

        • Shwiggie, I hate to break it to you, but if you look at pretty much any scientific study about education and/or intelligence in AL, it ranks almost universally in the bottom quartile. SATs, ACTs, college education, basic education, you name it, AL is the near the bottom of the pile.

          Once again, there are smart folks in AL, and this disparity is certainly tied to the failed systems, poverty, and culture in the south. But the facts are the facts, no matter how much we wish them to be something else.

        • I’m actually pretty surprised that that came out of Alabama. I knew some people that lived there, got their CCL’s there, apparently the process was a lot easier than it is in Texas. I figured Bama for a pretty gun-friendly state. I suppose I shouldn’t be too surprised, tho, that a Southern High Sheriff figures he owns the roads and anything on them …As for relative intelligence, I guess all the really smart people are at Boise State U in Idaho, right?

      • Seriously we gonna go back to this? Are we not tired of the Anti’s painting us with a broad brush, yet you wanna do the same to potential allies? Are some cops against our cause? yes, but some are 100% for our cause. Look up John Cooke and what he stands for in Colorado, is he a goon intending to take our rights away?

    • “Can I just borrow a sheriff’s deputy car any time I want for a while to test this theory of a car in public is public property?”

      Of course, the real irony here is that a Sheriff’s car truly is public property, but somehow I don’t think they’d see the humor in that if you test your theory.

      • If my car is public property when on the road, then I suggest authorities lease it off me at an appropriate rate while on the road, and make payment by end of day. This would entitle them to commandeer it if necessary (eg the sheriff locked his keys in his squad car while at the hamburger stand) for short periods. But I’ll make sure they can’t find it while I’m at work. There may be smarter rocks than this man.

    • You gotta remember that “progressives” think that damn near everything is public property. They seem to believe that if anything affects anyone else in any way whatsoever, it’s a matter for the community and should therefore be subject to government regulation “for the public good”.

  2. “I don’t think this has anything to do with the second amendment rights when you have the right to carry a weapon off your property. An automobile is not a part of your home. It’s a part of the public property when you get out on it.”

    Cool. There’s a Tesla that sometimes parks near me at work. I don’t want to own one, and certainly can’t afford to buy one, but since it is public property, I guess it is OK if I just use it for a while. You know, like a park bench is public property…..

    You don’t make this stuff up, do you?

    • Impossible. If the machines had Jerry at their disposal then why would they send a lesser specimen a la Arnold.

    • Jerry is going to star in the next X-Men movie as Magneto’s long lost brother and arch nemesis Magpul. A man that can stop a speeding bullet vs a man of the gun that can’t miss. It will be epic.

  3. bobby, thats amost as beautiful as the old NJ(I believe) law that said you could have a handgun, it just needed to be partly dissassembled. I thought we were past the right to defend only being in the home.

  4. “It’s been said before, but a good belt might even be more important than a good holster in a carry rig. A quality belt can make even a crappy holster acceptable, while a crappy belt can make it uncomfortable to wear the best holster in the world.”

    A quality gun belt (double thickness or rigid) is the most important part of the carry system, it’s the foundation.

  5. +1 on the genuine gunbelt Matt. I have a quality special purpose belt with a Galco Fletch & this anchors my all stainless 45.

  6. “The security forces team lost “a small amount of 40 mm ammunition from the back of a humvee”

    Must have been ammo for one of those 40mm Glocks.

      • I think we only use 40mm on the AC130s, being that it’s the airforce that lost em id guess they were transporting 40mm Bofors for a AC

      • No, 40mm grenade. All the AC130s are in Florida, and SF would have no business handling aircraft ammunition anyway.

      • One member of the security forces Mobile Fire Team carries an M16/M203 combo weapon, and the ammunition for the Grenade launcher is usually issued in a sealed metal ammo can. I remember it being a semi-regular occurrence for the grenadier to accidentally leave the can of 40mm on the back bumper of the truck while packing-up to leave, and drive off. Sometimes it would be found in a ditch in good shape, sometimes it got run-over and squished, and once in a great while the can would burst, scattering 40mm High Explosive rounds all over an area. Those last two situations were usually cause for an EOD (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) team response, to gather-up the damaged pieces/parts and safely dispose of them. Any of these situations was a often a career-altering episode for the grenadier.

      • Almost certainly from an MK19 belt-fed automatic grenade launcher. Can’t think of another ( assuming commonly ground-transported and likely to be used to guard the really good stuff) modern weapons system requiring a 40mm

        Also, if you’re into that sort of thing, look up some of the decommissioned ICBM silos around the country and check ’em out in person. Got tons (of reinforced concrete) around here if you ever feel like visiting. Neat stuff, ’60s computers are.

        • Negative, probably low-velocity 40 mm for an M16/M203. See my comment, above.

          Crew-served weapons are not used in the small, ground-based fire teams.

        • are you finding silos with the control electronics still intact? if so, please share which ones.

        • Gyufygy: “Even if it’s not a belt, don’t the 203 and MK19 use the same rounds, anyway?”

          No. The M203 uses a low-velocity grenade to keep the recoil manageable for a lightweight weapon system (originally developed for the M79 break-open, breech-loading, standalone grenade launcher). The MK19 uses a longer, high-velocity grenade. Other than basic diameter of the projectile, they are completely different rounds. Max range of a M79/M203 with the low-velocity grenade is about a quarter-mile; max range for a MK19 with the high-velocity grenade is around 1.3 miles.

          See link for more info >>> https://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/40.htm

    • You guys are kidding, right? It would be ammo for the 40mm grenade launcher served by the cutaway on your AR15 barrel. HE, shotgun, smoke, tear gas, all manner of good stuff.

  7. An Ares Ranger belt was one of the best investments I’ve ever made in regard to firearms. Frickin belt is amazing. Ordered a Ares Aegis and patiently waiting for that to arrive.

  8. Doesn’t surprise me about AF Security losing 40 mm rounds. Long before any of you were born, in the Army, we had to police up empty casings and we stayed until the numbers added up to what was shot.

    So I worked at an Airbase and the SP’s would always lose ammo on the flightline. I thought this seemed odd but the Commanders just blew it off. They were more interested in making sure the grass was cut, the base signs were painted and/ or well lit and their special parking spot at the Club had better be well marked. Don’t start me on the Commander who was in Toastmasters, all the suck ups joined and every month at the Club they sucked up. A month after he left, Toastmasters folded, so did the Burger another Commander had named after himself on the Club menu (last name), gone too the month he left.

    They DO have their priorities, they just don’t include managing and supervising who handles 40 mm rounds.

    Just sayin’

    • SPs shouldn’t be on the flightline unless requested. I have more than a few stories to support that, many involving them walking through intake danger zones without EPs, with headgear on. Never saw a beret actually get sucked into a GE 110, but several came close.

      Also, to this day, I have a handcuff key on my keyring that I found during a FOD check. Not too many ways that could have gotten there.

  9. I love my state (Alabama), but we’ve got some doozies living here for sure.

    My degree is in Poli Sci, and AL has one of the weirdest political breakdowns in the country. Very conservative on national issues, but many of the most rural counties have exclusively Democrat officials. It’s mostly a holdover from the old Democratic Party, and this carries true to many Associtions as well. As recently as 2010 the Alabama Education Association basically ran state politics, with the 2010 election cycle serving as a crusade of sorts against them. 2010 was the first time in 100 years the Alabama legislature was controlled by the Republican Party.

    Pretty amazing for a Deep South state. Almost as amazing as the ignorance displayed by Bobby Timmons.

    • Having to unload the gun while in the car is better than having to unload AND case the gun, which is the case in Ohio (and yet they call themselves a carry friendly state!).

      (I can unload without taking the gun from the holster (other than the chamber round which who knows where that would go) and reload as well.)

  10. “restrict gun rights without a felony conviction for the first time in state history”|

    Well they sure did their research, huh? A quick glance at a 4473 would show that you lose your gun rights if you’re convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, smoke pot, have a dishonorable discharge, ever visited a loony bin, or have a restraining order against you. None of those require a felony conviction.

    • that’s to purchase a gun, not having to turn them over. while some of the questions exempt you from owning at all not all of them do.
      If you have a restraining order you generally don’t have to turn over your guns. ditto for having been to a psych ward, if you owned guns prior you don’t have to turn your guns in once you go in or get out, etc.
      While having a felony and such will make it illegal to own, others necessarily don’t, just to purchase.

      • I was under the impression that you’re still prohibited from ownership as well but most places don’t actually bother confiscating them (I believe they’ve recently been cracking down on that in California) but I could be wrong, you do bring up a good point.

        • To be completely honest I’m not sure how they technically look at it.
          You’ll go to jail as a felon in possession, under the influence in possession, etc obviously, never heard of anyone being charged as a prohibited person under anything else though. I do know you can still keep your guns with a RO as long as a judge hasn’t ordered them to be removed.
          They just won’t let you buy more while it’s out.
          You can certainly own guns as a convicted violent offender as long as its not felonious. Again, you just can’t buy more.
          Cali is the only place I’ve heard of that is taking them from some PPs, and even then they aren’t being charged as a PP.
          In reality the only time you REALLY lose your RKBA is as a felon.
          Grey area I guess?

  11. I pay taxes on my car even if I drive it to another state. I should be able to have a loaded gun in my car wherever I drive it. Even To DC or New York. ITS MY PROPERTY.

    • Yes, yes you should.

      However the reality is that could get a few at nights at the Gray Bars Hotel, as well as, other equally exciting prizes.

  12. 22Plinkster hit a steel silhouette with his 1962 Colt Woodsman (.22LR).

    At 500 yards.

    With open sights.

  13. Ran into THE great man Miculek at the NRA meeting a few years ago. He is as laid back and friendly as you see on his videos. But I do think of the late Bob Munden and Tom Knapp every so often. More good guys !

  14. In Georgia, your car is an extension of your home. I would be concerned about any suspect idiot elected to the position of sheriff.

  15. Texas has had permitless, loaded car carry since about 2007 or so, with no problems. If anything, the anti’s should *embrace* this law. Aside from all of the obvious RKBA points, just as a practical matter, this law might actually serve to limit the ubiquity of firearms in public places.

    There are a great many people out there who do not want to carry a concealed firearm on or about their person as they go about their daily business. However, they may very well want to carry a self-defense firearm in their vehicle, which is little different mindset. The only choice those people have currently would be to go ahead and get a concealed carry license, omg, and what then? They may actually start carrying it on their person in public, once they have that license. Had they never gotten it in the first place, because they would only have carried in their vehicle as this law would allow, then that firearm would only have ever been kept in their vehicle.

    Instead, staunch opposition to RKBA and fantastical and flimsy reasoning by this Sheriff, may prompt more people to carry concealed everywhere.

    • I think you’re on to something there. For $200-$300 and a weekend spent mostly in a classroom watching videos, you get a (temporary!) CCL. For $0 you can carry in your car, from your car to your home or any property under your control or any property where you have the permission of a person with control, and back to your car (and you don’t give up your weekend)–for a lot of folks, that’s plenty. Make them pay that $200 plus and go thru the trouble of applying, going to class, testing, shooting, fingerprinting, photoing, etc, and they are likely to figure they ought to get their investment back by carrying all the time.

  16. Wilderness instructer belt.
    Best belt I’ve ever owned.
    Can’t say enough good things about wilderness tactical’s products.

  17. Odd. Here in Texas I had some items stolen from my car. I called my car insurer and they told me those items are covered under my home insurance. So I called them and we did a claim and all was well.
    Not sure BUT it seems my car is an extension of my home when it comes to valuables carried therein.
    If that statement IS true, carrying my firearm in my car to protect my property would be no different than having a gun to protect the valuables and lives in my home.
    But I’m not a lawyer or politician…

  18. Your car IS an extension of your home in Nevada unless you live in North Las Vegas where they make up their own laws illegally against state statutes and WILL arrest you for carrying a loaded firearm in your glove box even though they have been warned by the state to cease this ruling.When municipalities want to impose their personal agenda , they just doit cause they don’ t care about Rights unless it’s theif’s!

  19. Re: Jerry Miculek

    Jerry Miculek won the 3-gun nationals using one of them Gold Triggers from American Trigger so based on that and other reviews I just ordered their trigger group for my SIG AR.

    http://americantrigger.com/

    Not that this means crap because Jerry is an alien being put on this earth to show us natives that there are superior beings in the galaxy that can guide a bullet with their mind. The video above is all the proof I need. He is definitely an alien probably from a nearby planet recently discovered by the Keppler mission and coincidentally named K-WMN001, which might as well stand for WeMissNot :).

    All kidding aside, My SIG 516’s trigger is the worst trigger I’ve ever had the displeasure of putting my trigger finger on. The trigger pull is so high I was in fear of passing out while slowly applying pressure to it while holding my breath at the range yesterday. Imagine my displeasure when a friend let me shoot his bench rifle in 6mm Dasher, with a… wait for it….3-ounce trigger. I dropped that shot ded center on target at 300 yards. SWEET.

    The new trigger cost me 1/4 of what I paid for the 516 – I did get the SIG for ½ the price though (pre Sandy Hook) but that does not make me feel any better at all. It better work. It is supposed to emulate the same trigger pull as that of a top end 1911 handgun, which I am very familiar with, and a lot of people swear by it.

  20. In Louisiana, by law, your vehicle is an extension of your home, and carries the same protections against search and seizure as your residence. In this state, by definition, there can be no such thing as a concealed weapon in a vehicle.

    Isn’t that the same everywhere?????

  21. Texas already allows a person to carry a loaded firearm to their vehicle, conceal it, and go about their business. This is without a concealed carry permit. It’s perfectly legal as long as the weapon is not in plain view.

    There is a problem though. If you have a CCW permit and put a gun in your car, concealed, you can go to jail.

    The problem is the cops. They don’t understand the law. Many of them don’t know the law. So you, me, and many others have to carry a copy of the Texas Penal Code around or in the very least a printout of the section in question.

    And then if you have a permit to carry concealed, but you are not carrying concealed under the law (you are merely concealing the firearm in your vehicle) the cops pull this bullslaza where if you fail to show them your ID for CC, they claim you violated the law because you are required to show this to a uniformed officer in the event you are carrying concealed. But remember – you’re not. You have concealed the firearm in your vehicle under PC 46.02 which allows you to do so. The law states that you must show both ID’s in the event you are carrying ON YOUR PERSON. (GC 411.205)

    But cops still will pull your gun, fine you, possibly arrest you, and have your gun destroyed. As more states begin expanding the Castle law, this is going to be more common.

    • As I understand it, the laws in Texas refer to a handgun being “on or about” your person–a CCL allows you to keep a handgun “on or about your person” in public. That language would include having a hand gun in your car, “about” but not necessarily “on” your person. So applying the “shall inform of CCL” bit to a person with a CCL and a handgun “about his person” in a car does not seem entirely unreasonable. And the solution also seems to be pretty clear–if you have a CCL and there is a handgun “about your person” and you are stopped by a cop, then tell him you have a CCL and where your handgun is, as required.

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