gun_rally_register_AP

Reader AI writes:

I have the opposite opinion as the reader who wrote in accusing TTAG of “saber rattling” regarding a potential gun confiscation in Connecticut. It is a confiscation drive, after all, even though the “collection” phase hasn’t yet begun. As we all try to understand where the fine line is, and put off the potential for conflict, it is easy to forget the intentions of the Connecticut law. That some would resist was known and embraced by the anti-gun forces who sponsored the law. That innocent citizens would be turned into felons at the stroke of midnight on December 31 was fantasized about by those who see gun owners as inherently evil, untrustworthy people. And as we all know, those aren’t just fringe groups, but include the very people who take a supposedly legally binding oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America . . .

We’re not winning this war. Sure, we’ve won some battles in both the courts and legislatures around the country, but the war is far from won, and for every trend in our favor, two are going the other way. Today, the front lines are in the land formerly known as The Constitution State.

The reader who complained (for lack of a name, we’ll call him John for now on) compares our struggle to the civil rights movement. Truth be told, gun rights are a civil right, equal to all others — all ten of the Bill of Rights are civil rights. But when measured in popular opinion in certain regions, we know that not to be true. Even among “pro-gun” people, there are many willing to compromise on their gun rights in ways they would not be willing to compromise with free speech, minority rights, women’s rights, etc. (for instance, can you imagine it being legal for a woman to vote for local representatives, but not federal?).

“John” believes that the non-violent methods used by the civil rights movement of the 20th century would work in Connecticut. What he fails to recognize is the civil rights movement was attempting to gain rights previously restricted. Our goals are to maintain rights and prevent their restriction, a fundamental difference.

This distinction is important, because the knowledge of what benefits are conveyed unto a society from greater civil rights is already known where the right exists, whereas in the civil rights movement society largely feared changes, and resisted them. Using violent resistance in such a cause would only have served to increase and justify fears, counteracting the goals of the movement.

So what does that have to do with Connecticut and “not winning the war”? We have on our side everything we should ever need to win this argument once and for all – the Constitution, massive amounts of crime and gun statistics, over 200 years of American history – all things the civil rights movement didn’t have. Yet it doesn’t matter to the typical gun grabber. Why? Because this isn’t a war against people afraid of guns, it’s a war against statism.

That’s what exists in Connecticut today. Not Democrats, but statists. Statists know what they want, and they know what it will take to get it. That’s why they voted for the law they did. That’s why the “free” press is pushing for confiscations using SWAT teams, that’s why police chiefs, by and large, go along with it. Given all that history and evidence that support gun ownership, they don’t ignore it, they fear it as it is a bulwark against their goals. So we can’t use those same facts, those same non-violent methods that John suggests when the statists show up at our door, because they’ve already heard it all.

So is TTAG saber rattling? It’s the same answer as to the question, did the free citizens of Connecticut ask for this fight? Statists around the country have dreamed of the day when they could disarm the public and impose their will, and Connecticut is the first state that appears ready to try it. Unless repealed, this will be the first skirmish in what will be a long series of battles against tyranny. We must use violence when the statists show up at our door, when tyranny knocks, else they will be empowered to go to our neighbor’s door next.

Lives will be lost, but then America always knew there would be the need for good men to die: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants”.

127 Responses to Connecticut: We’re Not Winning the War

  1. We are winning. States with shall issue. Constitutional carry. SCOTUS ruled for the first time ever that 2a is an individual right. Even ILL and CA are getting court verdicts in our favor. CT is a small state that now has a big problem. That problem can be fixed without a gun battle. To say that we’re losing the war is just not true.

    • Carrying under a privilege is not the exercise of a right! Some ask, “How do you eat an elephant?” I respond that we are creating another elephant. Are you suggesting that accepting government privileges in lieu of actual unalienable rights is an acceptable trade off?

      We are certainly less free now than we were in the 1990s. We are NOT winning any ‘war’ regarding constitutional restraints on government.

      • “Carrying under a privilege is not the exercise of a right!”

        This is absolutely right. The right to keep and bear arms exists and is Constitutionally protected (in theory) from infringement by government agency. Since those agents have infringed anyway, however, the ONLY way to exercise the right, even a little bit, is to comply with their unconstitutional permit and license requirements until we can work towards the correct solution. Hoards of gun owners in jail or in court do not resolve the problem. I consider my Washington State CPL not a license, but a “get out of jail free” card. Nothing more than that.

        “Are you suggesting that accepting government privileges in lieu of actual unalienable rights is an acceptable trade off?”

        We are/must accept “government privileges” until such time as we can once again rein in the unconstitutional government actions against our protected rights. And by the way, they are natural, civil and Constitutionally protected. The only Inalienable rights are Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness listed in the Declaration of Independence.

        • I don’t disagree with you except for that very last bit. Natural rights are unalienable… no pieces of paper or parchment create unalienable rights. We delegate privilege to government but we couldn’t relinquish rights even if we wanted to. I, too, have a license as it is, unfortunately, the most realistic way to carry in a motor vehicle in Ohio. However, I encounter so many people who honestly believe that carrying under a license is exercising a right that I correct that misguided thinking wherever possible.

          We cannot stop pushing for the actual right until shall not be infringed is followed by government, IMHO. Government trinkets and blankets have to be called out for what they really are along the way.

        • What if I said that the determination about whether or not it’s an unalienable right shouldn’t be made based upon whether or not some guy did or didn’t write it down a long time ago, but instead upon how I feel about it? In the same way that it’s been determined that certain rights are constitutionally protected (take your pick), even though they aren’t specifically mentioned in the constitution, I feel like the right to self defense is a right that exists from birth, and access to the most effective modern self defense implements is my right, natural, unalienable or whatever (even if the second amendment is a little vague), and the proper role of government is to protect it, not to regulate, tax or approve my exercise of that right.

        • We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

          That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

        • I was being a little bit contrary, John, the Declaration does in fact say, “among these are…” but doesn’t list them all.

        • To suggest that we can protect our rights by giving them up and then working to regain them is ludicrous. Once given up the ONLY path to their recovery is violent revolution. The best way to keep our rights is to refuse to compromise on them. This path will lead to confrontation and may lead to violence but does not guarantee a revolt.

          Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.

          John F. Kennedy

        • @Cliff H: Upstream, you had commented, The only Inalienable rights are Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness listed in the Declaration of Independence.

          My comment was, in part, to direct your attention to exactly that; among them. The rest of it was directed at various comments in this thread and to provide that section, in general. Of course, no writings or speech creates unalienable rights. Not unlike laws of nature, they exist for mankind to understand and describe; we don’t create them simply because we realize they exist and describe them.

          So now, where was the misunderstanding? Because, I’m now confused.

          ***EDITED*** Nevermind, I now read your sentence correctly… You were being contrary. Oops… time for afternoon coffee for me! 😀

        • @Walter Royal: I am of the belief that our nation has gone to far towards tyranny to recover absent either consistent, super-massive civil disobedience or violent correction. IMHO, the former is unlikely. As such, I’d rather see the People come to a point that they are ready to be a free nation once again… get it over with and done because it’s inevitable, IMHO.

      • The first step out of a basement puts you in the basement still. So does the second. Certainly absolute recognition and protection of this right is the goal, but no one should refuse to take a step simply because it’s not the step that finally puts you out of the basement.

        I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the current status quo is a good place to stop, but some of the recent developments in firearms legislation have certainly been reassuring.

        Keep pushing, keep teaching.

        • I encounter gun owners and self-described rights supporters who believe “that the current status quo is a good place to stop.” In fact, many of them don’t understand freedom and are deeply frightened at the concept of shall not be infringed. Although people here may or may not be suggesting it, I’ve met more IRL who mean exactly that than those who don’t. When I read or hear ambiguity, I try to seek clarification as to what, precisely, they mean.

    • I agree that we are winning and CT can be fixed without a gun fight. My fear is that we lack the time necessary to make the fix. There are people on both sides that desperately want blood and all it takes is one and the whole damn thing goes off.

      • All government has to do anywhere is make these laws and wait for the current generation to die off or get too old to fight. The system works to convince the new generations that everything is as it should be. Look how far from accepting Liberty some are in comments on TTAG. The “I support the RKBA but…” crowd is thick practically everywhere I go. Government wins and Liberty loses over time. I don’t believe that, past a certain point, freedom can be regain incrementally. Governments exist for a long time and individuals only have one lifetime.

        • All government has to do anywhere is make these laws and wait for the current generation to die off or get too old to fight. The system works to convince the new generations that everything is as it should be.

          You hit an important point with this one. It shows in the difference of attitudes of people who are born and raised in California or Hawaii vs people from Texas or Tennessee. There’s a broad spectrum of brainwashing, all the way from What on earth would you need a GUN for?! to You can buy a GUN from someone without a background check?! Or even What possible use could you have for a machine gun or silencer!?. Watch people shake their heads in disbelief when you tell them that people used to be able to mail-order machine guns.

          P.S. Having had the experience personally, I’ll testify that it’s so refreshing to explain this whole concept to young people and have them wake up and show a little recognition and indignation.

    • It’s true we in California won the verdict. However it is currently being contested by California Attorney General Kamala Harris. Also a big problem is that it never states how long an applicant will have to wait for their CCW permit to be processed. Some cities are already saying it will take till 2015 or 2016 if you apply now. They basically can say your application is being processed and never issue a permit. This is a huge problem. We are getting close to a win but the game is not over yet.

  2. I don’t see it as “saber rattling” either. This site has since it started been pretty good at keeping it “real”. The things WE are going to see happen in CT, NY, NJ and other anti states will really start to define US as a people. If WE don’t get the anti politicians and oath breakers out WE the PEOPLE will loose our rights and then the first amendment, the fourth …….. Until WE have none.

  3. This time around it appears that the next civil war might start above the Mason-Dixon Line , but that won’t matter it will spread across the nation , it will get very ugly for a lot of the politicians in the highly ravaged gun control states that went along with the plans , also for a lot of federal employees and elected officials that are for more gun control , they hemselves think they will be protected by military , law enforcement , and possibly UN troops called in to help stop the insurrection , but as for our military and law enforcement they will stand down , some not all though just the older folks that know better and some of the younger that have been schooled by the older folks , as for the foreign troops they will be blood thirsty won’t have to abide by the Constitution , but one thing that will be against them is that most Patriots won’t give them any quarter as the foreign troops don’t live here and as they wouldn’t take any prisoners neither will the Patriots , the arrogance of the Statists of not giving any ground on their gun confiscation plans shows that it is only a matter of time before all of this starts . Be prepared and ready. Keep your powder dry.

    • Foreign troops, do you really see that as a possibility? I don’t understand under what provision we could ever see foreign troops on American soil let alone taking up arms against a segment of American citizens, please educate me, I have to assume that there is more to the story that I am unaware of.

      • You must be new here, MO. Some of our commenters are of the Alex Jones faithfull. They have 1a rights and I generally ignore them.

        • And then again, some of us never were strong fans of AJ… even in the earlier days when he was on short wave. 😉 Still, see my reply that was being written whilst you composed this one. I didn’t think it would ever be likely. Now I can conceive of it actually happening here.

      • I used to believe that it was unlikely, too. However, we’ve stuck our nose into so many other nations’ business that it doesn’t seem like that much of a stretch to consider foreign troops being used here. The USA, its military power and currency, is still relevant and important to the world. Should massive civil unrest occur here and the majority of our armed forces refuse to fight or even choose to assist the People, I can easily envision foreign troops being offered by the international community and our government accepting that assistance. Our country does it to other nations so why wouldn’t the ass hats in DC do the same here?

        • at which point our military would see foreign troops as invaders. Who will send troops? England, France, Belgium, the congo? Realistically Russia and China are the only countries that have enough of a military to invade the US. And it would be an invasion. It would not end well for the invaders or us.

        • That would make a bigger S*(% Storm than just confiscation. Foreign troops would be a common enemy our military and civilian gun owners would unite and fight against. I know for a fact I wouldn’t let any foreign soldier in my house. They can have my keys just like my guns I’ll be getting by prying them from my cold bloody hands.

      • He didn’t say foreign, he said UN. Most of the time when someone says UN troops it winds up being US troops acting under the auspices of the UN. Maybe that’s what they mean when they talk about hundreds of thousands of UN troops are already on US soil. We’re surrounded. I’m 99% sure I saw a few of them at the Sonic today.

    • The ‘foreign’ troops bit is extremely unlikely, unless Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto decides the Putin Crimea model is acceptable, and decides to re-occupy Southern California and New Mexico to “protect” the native Spanish speakers……

      • Well there is an Executive order signed by Bush back in 2006 , that allows the aid of foreign troops to come into our nation in times of emergency or insurrection , this was part of an agreement with Russia , but since we have pretty much screwed up relations with them ,by backing Neo-Nazis in the Ukraine , Boobama might ask someone else , who knows . Be prepared and ready. Keep your powder dry.

  4. Sites like this one combat the liberal media which glorifies wrong gun use and ignores the far more common good gun use.
    To defeat gun grabbers we need to shock the sheep into seeing what is at stake, We learned this lesson the hard way. For those of us who have been fighting for gun rights for 20 years or more we learned that a solid offense beats any defense anyday.
    We attack their “facts”(lies), we attack their careers, we attack anything they say. No attack is unjustified. They stepped up to the plate. They are open targets. Liberals tend to run and hide when it gets tough. That is how we win.

    • For those of us who have been fighting for gun rights for 20 years or more we learned that a solid offense beats any defense anyday.

      Very true.

  5. I’m open for a little violence…actually a while lot of violence. I’d like there too be a slaughter of all these people that want to impose such tyrannical Legislation

    • There is an old saying. If you have to slap your child to discipline him it should hurt you more than him… if this does go violent… it should be against our wishes

  6. Its time to protect our 2nd Amendment. If we don’t do it now its going to be to late. We all need the band together and stand up for are rights and sign ever gun rights we can if not their gonna take are rights and guns. Its time for us to stand up to our government.

    • Damn!

      Paul, that is the worst grammar I have ever seen. Did you intentionally use the wrong word in all of those places?

      • Grammar be hanged! It’s the sentiment and reasoning behind the words that are important. Freedom often isn’t polished and perfect. Likewise, free men are as they are; but at least they’re free.

        • False dichotomy, John. (Falsely implies that you have to choose between one of two choices)

          We can have good, strong content in our posts, and also use decent spelling and grammar. It is much easier to accept an argument positively, when the spelling and grammar does not make the author look illiterate. You can bet that the anti-gunners lurking on our blog will use posts like that one against us also.

        • Sorry, Bob. I didn’t mean to phrase it as a false choice; one or the other. Ideally, everyone would be articulate with their grammar properly polished and spelling impeccable. However, the reality is that not everyone is capable of producing gems with every post… perhaps even most of us. Most important to me is the passion and grasp of Liberty behind the posts.

  7. JWM, unfortunately you are not seeing the big picture. Anti 2A forces are throwing mud against the wall, in key areas. And that mud is sticking. All they need is to get a stranglehold on the northeast, which they almost have (NY, CT, NJ, MA, MD) Then they can go state by state, picking them off as they choose till the red states won’t even matter. They could not get it at the Federal level, so they are damn sure gonna try at the state level. Our 2A rights across the states are only a patchwork, because they are not universal like they should be. So the “wins” we have are important, but are minor in comparision to the anti’s advances. Just look at the states that have lawful gun ownership or CCW. There are several that “have it”, yet make it extremely hard. Our victories take long amounts of time to be achived thru the legal system, but they can railroad thru legislation almost overnight. We must all be vigilant, because change for the worse can happen overnight.

    • Are you sure that the majority of the people in CT don’t support this legislation, and that the fight is against 9the statist politicians, and not your fellow citizens?

      • That’s a very good point and something that’s difficult to assess. On the other hand, constitutional constraints on government aren’t about popularity. Even if all of the souls in CT, save one, wanted this; the Second Amendment hasn’t been nullified by the amendment process.

  8. The very first entry in the merriam-webster dictionary.
    Tyrant: Noun. a : an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution

  9. I’ve been thinking about this a lot. If I were in CT, I wouldn’t have registered my guns, and now I would be left with two choices: go to jail as a felon, or fight those that knock down my door.
    Well, I’m in my 30s. No kids, just a girlfriend and a career. Obviously I lose both of those when I go to jail, so that would make me somebody who’s f**ked either way, right? So for me, it’s fight. Fight like hell, and make them regret breaking down my door. Like I said, no kids, and I come from a family of vets and 2a believers, so I don’t give a damn what the news would call me, and neither would they. And I’d leave behind a legion of friends and family who would be looking for some payback.

    Luckily, I don’t live in some east coast statist paradise. I live in flyover country, where people still salute flags and politicians still fear their armed constituents, if they aren’t among them. People still smile at guys in uniform, and nobody calls the police when they see a rifle in someone’s truck rack.
    But if that changes, best believe I will fight.

    • “If I were in CT…” Makes sense not to, then.

      There would be a third option, though… neither comply nor fight, since with all this running around like chickens with their heads cut off absolutely nothing has happened. CT Carry warned that the state had to crap or get off the pot by the 7th, and nothing happened. The state warns that it’s not giving amnesty, and nothing happens. What if they threw a confiscation but nobody took?

      It’s still bad because people have to worry about the issue and are made criminals for no reason. But it’s not as bad as some saber-rattlers would like everyone to believe. Yet. So it’s good to figure out a plan, but let’s not get as hyperbolic as the gun-grabbers… there is no blood of patriots running down the streets.

  10. Mass was the test ground for mandating health insurance and CT will be the test case for scooping up guns.

  11. I stood up and cheered. Then I remember that I’m here all by myself so I sat down again. Well argued and inspirational piece. This is about so much more than gun rights.The second amendment is just one piece of the pie and those fuggers want the whole pie to themselves.

  12. If the civil war starts, the legislators who railroaded these bad laws through should be some of the first targets. We need to put some fear of the people back into our government. After the first one or two assassinations (executions for tyranny), then we should get the word out that the other tyrants should reverse their course or they will be the next ones to be killed.

    “When the people fear the government there is tyranny. When the government fears the people there is liberty.” ― Thomas Jefferson

    “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” — Thomas Jefferson

    • If it starts..then no mercy shown. A cleansing fire. You cannot let any survive to come back. They must all be wiped out. They are more then willing to do the same to you and your loved ones. They must pay the price for treason and that is a rope and a tree.

  13. The prospect of doors being kicked in and gun owners slain, families molested, homes burned to the ground, and pets slaughtered is very real.

    Those in power in CT will see to it. You see, those who crave power are deep down, extraordinarily violent organisms. As long as they don’t have to wet themselves with your blood.

    And if there is to be such a diminishment of individual rights, reversal of that action makes such events necessary in order to give sufficient resolve to resort to active resistance.

    To those unfortunate: We salute you. We hope the children won’t get caught up in the fight, but a Waco and Ruby ridge show, the state is not beyond gassing, shooting and incinerating children either.

    Then the fight’s on. From the time those first incidents take place, there is no way to stop them by simply allowing them to repeat.

    ANY good commander will tell you, you cannot win unless you go outside the wire.

    Those that execute such orders as to murder an imprison their fellow citizens are criminals and should be treated as such, but it is those that wrote the orders, that issued the orders, facilitate and support them, as well as propagandize them, in combination with their worldly goods can, should, and probably will become the objects of any response. 4GW. Remember 4GW.

    The opposition will continue to raise the stakes and ratchet up the level of violence. Such is the arrogance of power. Only a fool would expect them to reverse such oppression outright.

    Once it starts, expect a very long haul.

  14. Who could disagree with your post? There are other perspectives, though:

    “What he fails to recognize is the civil rights movement was attempting to gain rights previously restricted. Our goals are to maintain rights and prevent their restriction, a fundamental difference.”

    Until the Civil Rights Movement of the ’60’s and beyond, black Americans never ever enjoyed civil rights in the U.S. And contrarily, enfranchised U.S. citizens enjoyed the protection of their 2nd amendment rights uninfringed from 1791 to (for most of the nation) 1934, a period of 143 years. It is the Gun Rights Movement which has been struggling to regain what was preemptorily taken away by the NFA during a panicked fear of the labor movement during the Great Depression, and then by subsequent legislation written by, who else, the ruling political cabals of the moment, whether big government, big handouts, or big labor. We had, unbroken throughout our history until recent decades, the uninfringed right to own a service rifle, pistols, items which actually provided the ability to defend our person, family, and towns against unlawful violence, whether perpetrated by rioters, corporate Pinkertons, union goons, or a government regulatory gone mad. True, in the most recent decade the right and its purposes have increasingly been recovered.

    Effective guns in citizen hands reduce the viability of the threat to riot, the threat of the union goon to thrash, and the threat of a given moment’s government executive branch to shoot or jail those perceived enemies whom it lacks the patience to persuade. We need to recover protection of the right in those states where it has quite recently been oppressed.

    We are winning. The Supreme Court has awakened in recent years to the fact that in states where for the moment the users of violence have opposed gun rights and control state legislatures, they have used that local power to gut a core right enshrined in the Constitution. It is for the Court to act to break this state legislature rebellion against the Constitution in the five states where the rebellion has occurred.

  15. Connecticut will find someone who can be counted on to resist violently and they will raid him and kill him as publicly as they can, but not before making sure everyone knows he is just an average Joe. Everyone else will comply once they realize their wives and children, if not also killed, will be orphaned.

    Terrorism works, especially when the government is the party terrorizing.

  16. A civil war is stretching things a bit.. So is any kind of organized resistance ..
    Look there are a few things that have to be in place before any sort of resistance happened, and gun owners are hell and gone from most of them.. the main one is leadership, second is everybody has to be moving in the same direction… there isnt a single group out there putting a face on any of this.. Just everybody singing the same songs, only in 10 thousand different ways.. this is why the opposition isnt too worried about a bunch of frustrated middle aged fat/skinny guys wringing their hands and kicking up dust online..Gun grabbers know that fighting the battle by whittling away little by little is how we lost them in the first place

    The only group who has the kind of clout and muscle it takes to get everyone moving in one direction is the NRA.. and I doubt some galvanizing press release, asking members to resist is in the works..

    Anything less then 100k armed guys marching in the streets demanding the repeal of national Firearms act of 1934, backed by somebody as Big as the NRA.. is gonna get squashed by the Anti’s

    • Infringement works little by little. Reigning in our government won’t work that way. Why did the colonists fight against the Crown when they could have worked their way back, little by little, to some sense of Liberty? Past a tipping point, a tyrannical government cannot be stopped by incrementalism. We’ve lost so many young minds to the public school indoctrination. Our freedom is lost in the long run if definitive action isn’t taken relatively soon. Connecticut is as good of a place to start as any. Give ’em Hell, CT! Stand strong.

  17. For my part, I still refuse to fear what might come to pass in CT. Whatever plays out there is really outside my personal control, so getting worked up is a nonproductive waste of energy. I’m paying attention, but focusing my energy in other areas.

    One thing that is within my control is informing friends, family and anyone interested about the realities of firearms, how they work, what the laws really are, what it’s like to be a gun owner, etc. And I take people shooting.

    I live in AZ, but have a lot of left-leaning friends in left-leaning places. In fact, I’m in NJ tonight, and I had lunch with a friend from XBox Live this afternoon. I showed him pictures of my toys, pointing out how much NJ laws suck and how things like magazine limits have no practical effect on public safety. We ended up making plans for him to come visit and go shooting.

    Yes, there’s a real possibility this will be too little, too late. But at least it’s something I can do to help 2A rights that’s totally within my control. Even if all I’m doing is planting seeds of doubt against the Official Version, who knows what those seeds might bear later?

    • And it might be that your efforts to educate one at a time, as my efforts, multiplied by millions of gun owners can have a tipping effect on the debate. I will continue to try and educate and thank you for your efforts.

      • That’s exactly my hope, jwm. I’ve had pretty good results by simply sharing my own experiences in a straightforward way. No arguments or statistics, just why I like shooting, why the 2A is important to me, and offers to take people shooting. Not everyone is interested in giving it a try, and that’s fine. Enough have been.

        Thanks for the recognition, and thanks for your contributions!

  18. From my understanding of the events in CT, it seems clear that those in power did indeed want some people to NOT be able to comply. Proposals for extending the registration period were rejected. If the goal was simply to have firearms registered, why not extend the registration period? Why not allow registration all day, every day, for the rest of time?

    Nope. Seems that the powers that be in CT wanted exactly what they’ve got. If a conflict does arise there, it won’t be the fault of hapless gun owners who got caught in law designed to criminalize them – it will be the fault of those who wrote and passed that law.

  19. This would be a good opportunity for the gun industry to stop all sales and service to Connecticut government agencies. Its time for gun manufacturers to put their claims of supporting the Second Amendment into action. That action would send notice to the governor, and to law enforcement agencies that we are serious about preserving constitutional rights

  20. Germany & Japan knew they couldn’t invade America because there was ” a GUN behind every blade of grass”. I wonder what would happen if every gun owner in America used those guns in defense of LIBERTY?

    • The “blade of grass” quote is misattributed to Yamamoto, BTW. There’s no evidence he ever actually said it.

      And Yamamoto’s “I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant” quote? From the movie “Tora! Tora! Tora!”. While it does summarize his position at the time, the quote itself is fictional.

  21. Something here should not be forgotten: the people of CT elected the representatives who enacted these ridiculous measures. Why not move to a place where people actually believe in some freedom? You are in the minority, and while the courts should protect it, there is no guarantee. I hear the reprise coming that ‘if you move, they’ll find you.’ Nope. This real BS legislation is limited pretty well to a few states and won’t spread past the blue ones unless the people of the gun lose a major cultural battle. And if it comes down to your ‘red line’ wouldn’t it be better to have it crossed with lots of like-minded individuals?

    As to national legislation… the gun owners in CT have no political power to shape national politics. Why not move to a purple-ish state and push things there towards more freedom instead of less? Make it uncomfortable for the commuters in Virginia because they might see a gun now and then, maybe they’ll move to Maryland. We’ll have pretty much what we have already, states with no gun rights and states with good ones. The good states will balance out the bad ones nationally. And again, if they don’t, at least you’ll have a state behind you rather than those three guys from the gun club.

    • Why not move to a place where people actually believe in some freedom?

      You’re single, unemployed, and live in your car, correct?

    • Although I don’t begrudge an individual the wise decision to move to more friendly territory; it’s merely kicking the can down the road. Tyranny isn’t going away. From the moment a government is instituted, the threat begins. Sure, we all move to more like minded states. However, this is only setting up another civil war drawn upon state lines at best. At worst, it’s continual retreat until there is no where left to go. Some fight against tyranny is coming. The only question is when. If people can stay and fight, all the better for the nation as a whole, IMHO.

  22. +100, but you seem to view “winning” and “won” as equivalent to one another; they are not. I agree we haven’t won. But we are winning.

    People need to perceive victories in order to go on. I don’t think we should be taking victories away from people.

  23. A civil war and violence are a bad idea IMO. A full-on civil war would destroy the republic and it would likely get replaced by a real, true tyranny as historically when representative systems of government break down, a tyranny takes the place. And there aren’t enough people in the country willing to fight a war against the government. If the government became a true tyranny like the Assad regime in Syria and was slaughtering people, then yeah, even the most hardcore gun control Democrats would likely take up arms and start fighting because whether it would be a tyranny or not would no longer be questionable. You’d have people across the political spectrum united against the tyranny with the main goal being to restore the republic. But the whole nation is not going to get riled up to fight over gun control.

  24. the worst defense, is a static one, holed up in a house, trapped like a rat. sure you might make them pay, but myself, I am getting too old and crippled up to really move fast. The patriots will become the resistance, ambush and hit and run tactics.

  25. I think there is an aspect to the debate that most people may be missing. This is going to seem off topic, but I think it may help some folks to understand why theres no way things are going to improve in Connecticut. It’s no longer a difference of political philosophy. Theres no Red state/Blue state anymore. This is a welfare state. As are Mass, NY and NJ. This is because of political and moral corruption. Politics wise, CT is a one party state. Dem obviously. This allows the Democrats free reign to tax those who work and redistribute that money to those that dont. Generously. It varies by small degrees from time to time, but we are usually one if the top three states for welfare benefits. That buys the votes of the permanant class of vermin that have infested this state. Who naturally will vote for whoever keeps the money flowing in their direction. Now, as everyone knows, this particular class of people seem to commit a large percentage of crime, much of which is violent. And this now present a golden opportunity for our politicians to win the votes of many of the brainless fools who are of the working and “educated” classes. They vow to crack down on crime by passing more gun laws. Mr. and Mrs. Educated Liberal moron applaud this action, along with supporting more increases in welfare benefits which invites more of the parasitic class into the state, with the increase in criminal behavior that they bring and of course, the need for more state workers for various state agencies that administer the welfare programs. The increase in crime causes a fresh round of calls from the public for the politicians to do something about the crime rate. The solution? More cops..and more welfare benefits. Of course all these state employees are going to support the politicians who are going to keep the money flowing in their direction also. As I stated, this may seem far off topic, but having lived here my entire life, I have seen how things have progressed in this state, and how the average law abiding hard working citizen is powerless to stop it. Newtown was simply an opportunity to make political capitol for our already corrupt pols. It was a great way to win votes from the soccer mom contingent. Anyone with a grain of common sense knows and knew that the AW ban and mag limits would have no real affect on violent crime. But they wanted somebody to DO SOMETHING!!..I wish I could tell all of you people from the rest of the country of the number of fools I heard speak about the ban and how it was needed. Of course, these are the same people who want heavily armed police officers to respond within seconds if they should be confronted by a criminal themselves. Hypocrites are never in short supply around here. Sadly, common sense and personal responsibility are becoming harder to find among much of the general populace of this state. Im sure some of you reading this are also Connecticut residents. You’ve seen the deterioration of all of our bigger cities and the ongoing spread to the towns and suburbs. You’ve seen the continuos infringement of our rights. You’ve continued to pay ever increasing taxes. I dont hold out any hope for this state anymore. Im lucky. I have a good paying job. My family are all here. These are the only things that keep me here. The sad thing is, those reasons were strong enough to keep me from thinking of living elsewhere, but conditions here are forcing me to consider seeking out a state that still respects the honest and decent citizen and ensures their rights. I hope it may get better someday but I just dont see that coming to pass.

    • Vote with your feet and pay your taxes in another state. Free America will welcome your vote and your guns with open arms. (No pun intended)

    • You are not alone in your assessment. It is the same everywhere, they have just grown their power quicker there. Come to GA, we still have most of our freedom for now. But rural economy is quickly failing, increasing said welfare society here.

  26. This rhetoric is a little over the top. Gun control advocates passed some stupid laws and now it’s backfired into what is essentially a catch-22. They would be legit out of their minds to push for forced confiscation. I think most of them are hoping to kick this can past election and letting it die down quietly. I fear they’ll just let this be another unenforced law on the books that will be trotted out to harass people at times.

    • While the level of harassment people potentially face is quite onerous indeed in the form of felony charges, I agree this rhetoric is over the top.

      The enemy we face here is one that has practiced gradualism for some time now (generations). They are making a strong, concerted effort to malign gun ownership in general across the United States after laying relatively dormant. Most of their effort is wasted, CT is the only place they have made any real headway.

      They want this law to stand and ensnare people over time. The last thing they want to do is blow it, but there is one thing we can be sure of: If someone engages the police with a firearm over the law in CT, they will milk it for every drop. Whether that comes tomorrow or ten years from now… Whether it happens once or a dozen times.

      They have rigged the system in their own favor and it will require subtlety to evade their trap. They are counting on blowhards and belligerent yokels to make their work easy. Nobody in CT or anywhere else these bastards strike up their game can avoid to forget this.

  27. If we fight back with force, the media will turn it in “gun nuts” attack law enforcement. If you protest peacefully, they just walk over us(who in a high chair is scared of the people on the ground). They can manipulate whatever action we take to turn it against us. It’s not the people of the gun that we have to convince, its the people who don’t know what the difference between a clip and a magazine are. The ones that are watching the news channels being spoon fed the liberal propaganda, they don’t know any better, they have been brain washed into thinking we are evil. The number of gun owners has increased exponentially in the past couple years, but this war on our civil rights can only be won with shear numbers and we are still lacking. We need to stop being obnoxious to the anti-gunners, and educate them in a non condescending way! We think getting into a debate with these people fixes anything, it doesn’t, you just end up shouting statistics back and forth that aren’t heard by either party. Go to your local boy scouts/girl scouts group and put on a firearms education class. Go to your local school board and propose voluntary firearms education for kids. Set up open family events at your local gun club, bring in those who were on the edge. Teaching kids about firearms is a must, most of the adults have made theirs minds up, but we can try and save the next generation from the ignorance of ours. It’s our duty to do that with all things anyway, teach them the mistakes of the past so they are not repeated. Also on that day when a child comes home and conveys the joy they experienced learning about and shooting a firearm(I’ve never seen a child not smile when they plink something with a .22lr or an air rifle) a parent might just decide these gun things might not be so bad. Stay strong!
    Will P.
    Age 24
    Georgia

  28. This is an outstanding article. I particularly like, and agree with, the last paragraph to wit:

    “Statists around the country have dreamed of the day when they could disarm the public and impose their will, and Connecticut is the first state that appears ready to try it. Unless repealed, this will be the first skirmish in what will be a long series of battles against tyranny. We must use violence when the statists show up at our door, when tyranny knocks, else they will be empowered to go to our neighbor’s door next.”

    Unless the people of that state completely remove the legislators who passed this and elect some who will repeal it, and the prognosis for this does not appear very good, violence will be the only way.
    Unfortunately, giving up the guns then trying to remedy the law through the courts or the legislature will take many, many years and result in disarmed people in violation of the Constitution while their firearms rust in a police locker or get ground into new Fords. This statist behavior HAS to end. There can be no compromise on our freedom. It will be tragic if this devolves into a shooting scenario(s) however, the onus WILL be on the state, not the people. If there are police, legislator and citizen funerals in Ct as a result of this it WILL be because the state caused it with no one else to blame.

  29. Another reason I don’t think a confiscation is happening is because the 2nd amendment is exercised by the entire spectrum of social/economic strata. Gun owners are not (just) country bumpkins. They’re lawyers, doctors, scientists, and politicians too. Some of them, for lack of a better word, are the establishment. By going after them anti-gun advocates are picking a fight with people who can hit back hard. Forget about a Mexican standoff, imagine the fallout if they’d raid the house of a constitutional lawyer cherished by their community.

  30. Gun owners are not (just) country bumpkins. They’re lawyers, doctors, scientists, and politicians too.

    But a lot of gun owners are Fudds. While the AR-15 and other modern sporting rifles may be far more popular these days, how many people actually own one? One in 30?

    Until they come for Gradpaw’s model 1894, gun control will remain popular on the east & west coasts.

    • I agree completely. I honestly had no intrest in an AR-15 until they became what they are today. I had a SKS that was the only “military style rifle” I owned. I was more focused on precision bolt actions for hunting and target shooting, and handguns. But that has become the image of the gun community now taticool guys carrying ARs. We need less “scary” taticool and more average gun owner with a field grade shotgun or rifle.

      • Diversity for gun owners is just fine; if you only like side-by-side shotguns and pellet rifles, that’s fine and dandy…as long you’re also supportive of the right to own all the tacticool stuff as well.

        • Don’t get me wrong I agree wholeheartedly with diversity in firearms. Not every shooter likes hunting or bench shooting. I’m all for any safe recreational use of firearms in whatever form that may take. I am hoping to participate in some local 3 gun matches when I finally get some free time this summer. I’m just saying the current image to the non gun community right now is of guys decked out in gear with “black rifles” and it scares them. I think its cool, you think its cool but we are not the ones we’re trying to convince.

        • I’m not sure if we can change that many minds. Anti-gun people fall (basically) into two camps:

          1) Those firmly against gun rights on a philosophical bases (statists)
          2) Those who haven’t thought that much about it, but simply are anti-gun out of ignorance on the subject (guns are scary!)

          We don’t have the slightest chance of persuading all but the smallest fraction of the former, any more than they’re going to persuade us to voluntarily give up our guns. As for the latter, we can make some small inroads at the margin, but given that “modern” guns are now by far the most popular firearms on the market, I don’t think we’re going to get that many converts. If you pick up the latest issue of the most popular gun rag (Guns & Ammo), they don’t have many articles about the latest iteration of the Remington 870. At least 75% of the articles are now about handguns, black rifles, and accessories for them.

        • That’s true in every way. We will not convince the extremist side, if CNN told them the sky was green they can’t be convinced otherwise for eternity. But they are playing politics with our image, we need to play politics back. Its most likely too late for much of that though. The politicians are going to do whatever they please, they just have to convince a small number its the right thing.

        • @Hal, I’m not nearly so pessimistic about converting people. I’ve been educating people for the past year, and it’s been working out rather well.

          I don’t see as much of the outright “statist” mindset as I see simple ignorance of firearms, gross ignorance of firearms laws and an opposition to private gun ownership based on general distrust and fear of people they don’t know (i.e., you never know who’s bad, and there are a lot of idiots out there, so if everyone is packing it’s dangerous and scary).

          The simple antidote to the above is a conversation starting with “hi, I’m your friend / family / coworker and you trust me, and I’m also a gun owner. I like shooting because _____. If you’d ever like to give it a try I’ll be happy to take you to the range–it’s a very safe and controlled environment, and it’s really quite an interesting and fun experience. I hope you’ll give it a try. It will be fun.”

          There’s also been some discussion in this thread about scary black rifles. My answer to that is my Sig 522, which looks all kinds of scary but is absolutely not intimidating and is a total blast to shoot. And after they have fun shredding paper at 50 yards, everyone has been up to seeing how they can do at 100 yards with the AR.

          Dispel the mysteries and the ground collapses beneath every bogus argument the antis try to sell.

    • But a lot of gun owners are Fudds.

      You do realize that the proposed law in NJ will render a LOT of your despised “Fudds” as criminals just like the sporting rifle owners are in CT.

      Think strategically instead of tactically. We can’t afford to belittle or dismiss any segment of the POTG.

  31. I wish you guys suggesting that you will fight off a swat team from the comfort of your home would get some training,read a book about tactics or something! You are very wrong if you think you can wait for the door to be kicked in.You are dead wrong. Get together with your patriot friends,neighbors, family someone in your group will have tactical experience or training.Live to fight another day. If you don’t have the advantage don’t engage

  32. I have a question or two for those who are eager to expend ammunition and spill blood.

    Suppose for a moment that we actually win, and kill or imprison those who we oppose. Then what?

    At that point we would be in a state of anarchy, with a minimalist government, an 18th Century infrastructure, and a massive cleanup and rebuilding effort ahead of us.

    And what would prevent the next crop of statist tyrants from taking over?

    You can’t shoot everybody forever. Think about Egypt and Syria. The Arab Spring hasn’t worked out too well for them, and that’s what you’re proposing to do here.

    • Tyranny is inevitable when government isn’t held accountable. Shall I choose the path that leads to tyranny just because I’m afraid of what might happen acting as a free man ought to when his Liberty is mortally threatened? Shall we try to extend the bread and circuses just a little while longer by letting a tyrannical government grow stronger? We know that brutal tyranny lays ahead of this nation should it not be stopped. The wise choice is to take a chance for the restoration of our republic and the rejuvenation of our Liberty rather than resign ourselves to living longer under the increasingly heavy yoke of oppression.

      Read what the founders of this nation wrote. We’ve gone far too long without a correction to government usurpation of power and exponential government growth. The longer tyranny is allowed to fester, the more painful the cure. The People share a large part of the blame as they should have put government in check a long time before now.

      I dread whatever might happen far, far less than I dread the tyranny that will be.

      • I started on this comment earlier today. What you said “I couldn’t have said “Better” except, I can’t accept we as in being partially the blame. I am sure you don’t mean “we”, I am sure you know there are a small numbers in the trenches fighting for our rights every day. It isn’t about just guns I try to stay active with the government, the whole constitution is being bombarded every day and there a lot of politician figures who want it rewrote. They ARE picking it a part everyday piece by piece. It was wrote as a living, breathing will for the people, so when we individuals die our children’s children, children’s, can live free for the rest of their lives. The constitution was wrote to give us freedom, so we would never live under bondage and the control of another tyrant government again. The government want us to think, Oh, It just a piece of paper, we don’t need that for you to be free, but we do need it to remember what they fought to give us and our future generation. The constitution don’t guarantee our safety from someone trying to harm us, It was to try and guarantee that we would be able to live our life’s through god given rights as a free being , and to keep our government from harming us. It a protector against a tranny government. There are a very few, who have for years been actively trying to restore our country’s order to what are republic is and was about, unfortunately, Ben Franklin said that in the end it would probably self-destruct due to greed. I am constantly writing, and calling our senators and governors and voicing my opinion, and voting, and trying to be involved in politics even at a local level. Most of our country has become lazy, in one order or another. Our society become too dependent on our government to fix everything for us, and our government also has come to this idea that they think they can fix everything. A government who will give you anything you want eventually will take everything back, they gave and more. They can’t and neither is it their responsibility, 90 percent of our laws are bogus, or deceptive. They often will put laws in place under bogus names, when the real meaning is one more step in disarming America. We can look at this when we look at our gun organizations like, GOA and NRA, and a few other less known out there. Look how many gun owners, there are compared to the membership in these organizations. Look how much power we would be able to exert over our politicians if membership was to jump to 8- 10 million. No, they want to grumble because NRA, or GOA doesn’t do, or believe in this, or that when the bottom line is they are the only people fighting for our GUN RIGHTS!!!! I know so many who say oh they won’t take my guns, it is our right. The other say, well if they take away our right they aren’t getting my gun. Well what are you going to do, hid in your closet, and basement to shoot? Where you going to buy ammo? I got a friend, who has quite a few guns; he said they are not going to get these guns they don’t have a paper trail. All the long he is making fun of the ones who has bought guns out of the firearm shops has a form at the firearms dealers with your name and address, and all the info where to find you. I don’t know how it is now, but if you were ever a firearms dealers you had to surrender your paperwork on all the guns, you sold. You think the government throws that away. Anyway my ex-friend won’t join a gun organization. I said thanks a lot that shows me what a friend you are, I got guns that do have a paper trail, and I am the one who is fighting for yours and my right. I walked out of his house that day and haven’t been back, as I walked out the door when you join and show me that you are not selfish anymore we can be friends again. The government has us where they want us it seems. The only one that seem to be interested in what our government does is the liberals, and they are the ones who believe the government can, and will fix everything that’s wrong with our society. Our government has become a bidding war to the highest bidder, the highest bidder gets his way. I am sure in the 20,000 pages plus Obama care that if you own a firearm that they want to know about it, and find some way to penalize you for our right to own. You see a lot of people in our country have become too dependent, and relaxed with our government that they will do the right thing. That is a lie!!!!! We have seen it throughout history, google how many times are government have killed people, and I am not talking about Waco and Ruby Ridge. During the great depression, the veterans was promised a pension from WW I, The war veterans march in Washington D.C. to get their pensions early, to ease the suffering of the depression, the president ordered out the national guards against a peaceful march and killed 75 to 100,not counting wounded. Here is a list you should see
        1940s – nuked Japan.
        Death toll: 145,000 to date in Nagasaki, 250,000 in Hiroshima
        1947-49 – U.S. helps command extreme-right Greece party in Civil War.
        Death toll: about 70,000 contributed by US-backed forces
        1948-54 – CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion in Philippines.
        Death toll: about 11,000
        1950 – Independence movement crushed in Ponce, Puerto Rico
        Death toll: conservative historians estimated about 8,000 peasants
        1950-53 – Korean War
        Death toll: about 1,776,000
        1952 – CIA overthrows Democracy in Iran, installs Shah
        Death toll: about 20,000
        1954 – CIA directs invasion of Guatemala after new Democracy there nationalized U.S.-occupied lands
        Death toll: about 140,000 missing and dead
        1958 – In Lebanon, marine occupation against rebels
        Death toll: about 2,000
        1960-75+ – Vietnam War including Cambodia and Laos
        Death toll: about 4,502,000 including civilians and resulting famines (conservative estimates)
        1961 – Cuba’s Bay of Pigs Invasion fails
        Death toll: about 4,000
        1963 – In Iraq, CIA organizes coup against President and agrees to back formerly exiled Saddam
        Death toll: about 7,000 including civilians
        1964 – In Panama, troops kill protesters against US-owned canal
        Death toll: about 1,000

        1965 – CIA assists Indonesian coup
        Death toll: about 900,000
        1966 – Troops and bombers threaten pro-communist parties in Dominican Republic
        Death toll: about 3,000
        1966-96 – Green berets in Guatemala against rebels, US backs pro-American forces in country until 1996
        Death toll: about 200,000
        1970 – Directs marine invasion of Oman
        Death toll: about 2,000
        1973 – CIA directs coup to oust elected Marxist president in Chile
        Death toll: 30,000… 3,000 later disappeared under US-installed dictator
        1976-92 – CIA assists South-African rebels in Angola
        Death toll: median estimate at 550,000
        1981-90 – CIA directs Contra invasions in Nicaragua
        Death toll: median estimate at 30,000
        1982-84 – Marines expel Lebanese rebels, aided by Israel
        Death toll: 40,000
        1987-88 – US intervenes for Iraq against Iran
        Death toll: about 150,000 during time-frame, 100,000 during Desert Storm, 350,000 from resulting famine
        1989 – US invades to oust CIA-installed Panamanian government gone rouge
        Death toll: 2,000
        1992-94 – US-led occupation of Somalia during civil war
        Death toll: 50,000 in combat, 300,000 by starvation
        2001+ – US Occupies Afghanistan
        Death toll: 120,000 including civilians and combatants and resulting Opium Wars
        2003+ – Iraqi War
        Death toll: 665,000 also by starvation, displacement

        TOTAL: 10,431,000
        Japan was a beaten country they were starving had no shelter to live in. They nuked Japan to send a message to Russia, so now you know how the cold war started.
        By conservative estimates, the population of the United States prior to European contact was greater than 12 million. Four centuries later, the count was reduced by 95% to 237 thousand. The extinction of the Buffalo was just another way to kill the Plains Indians via starvation.
        Worker strike at Henry Ford plant, they decided to march into the shutdown plant in a peaceful protest, during the depression, Henry Ford’s had hired thugs guarding the plant and called local authority in they shot and killed many people. Federal government backed the company, no one was arrested for all out murder of these citizens.
        Coal mine wars in in West Virginia, they hired thugs to kill workers, who refused to work under dangerous condition
        The railroad and steel wars were hundreds were killed by hired thugs by Pinkerton Detective Agency
        Prohibition, where are government deliberately poison alcohol and killed hundreds, maybe thousands, not counting who they made sick.
        No, I’m not anti-American, but we can’t rely on our government; they are not perfect people as these liberalistic people think. They live in an illusion, we live in a perfect world. That is very, very true with our second amendment. For God’s sake, America, our government is not always going to look out for our best interest anymore, so wake up out of your little dream.

        • You have the idea. Thank you, sir!

          There are some of us “old hands” at fighting tyranny out there, just like yourself. Our government generally considers us some sort of ‘terrorists’ today or would like to treat us that way. The nation is operating just as the founder’s predicted that it would… it’s been allowed to go unchecked and it’s well past time that more people do whatever they can to reign it back in. Government will always seek power; all governments, anywhere. It’s the very nature of government. Each generation is handed the keys to a prosperous and constitutional governmental machine. Each generation must choose if they wish to do what is necessary to maintain it as such and to repair it. The rot and mission creep of our government is appalling. However, it won’t stop until the People force it. If enough Americans would get on task and refuse to allow our government to continue in this lunacy, the Republic would be restored within a week or so. So, you, me, and many others continue to speak out; working diligently towards restoration of our constitutional government. After all, what other choice do we really have?

  33. Burn it down ,Burn it down, the only thing our government understands is rioting and violence, but burn it build down and that will get their attention. If they want to criminalize us for our second amendment we may as well show them what a real criminal is. Believe me it WILL make them think twice about taking away our second amendment. We are no longer citizens; we have become nothing but subjects in the eyes of our president, and the democratic party.

    • Worse… our people consider themselves subjects to government. They fear and loathe the exercise of Liberty without the express permission/privilege of government. Exhibit A: concealed carry licenses. Exhibit B: background checks for firearm sales. Etc…

  34. The statists aim to disarm the American people; they view gun owners as evil, mouth breathing morons and will use the power of the state to disarm us. Ten minutes after the first CT LEO is killed or wounded forcibly confiscating firearms, the Connecticut statists will request federal assistance. I’m sure there is an already a rehearsed plan to federalize all Connecticut LEOs as well as the CT National Guard. Dear Leader will then also try to outlaw the possession of those “evil” assault rifles through an executive order. Things will then begin to get very interesting.

  35. Your analysis of this situation is spot-on, with ONE glaring mistake. The citizens of Connecticut DID ask for this fight. They WANTED confiscation. By electing Statists to their Legislature, should they be SURPRISED when these Statists begin limiting their rights through law?
    Their only option is to comply with the laws, until these legislators can be removed from office and these laws repealed.
    As an American society, we get what we deserve when we allow Evil to Flourish.

  36. Folks forget that New York will soon join the ranks of those under attack by the anti-gunners. Our “SAFE” act is even more restrictive and more fascist than the laws in the state mentioned primarily in the article above.

    We Will Not Give Up!!!
    LIBERATE THE STATE!!!
    FUAC!!!

  37. If you believe that an unjust involuntary evaluation is about to occur to yourself or your family member, you have the right to refuse treatment. The following is a template for dealing with involuntary evaluations in New York State. While the template may be useful in other states, during the creation of you or your family member’s template, check with state and local mental hygiene lawyers concerning state and local laws.

    The use of multiple live streaming electronic devices is recommended, so as to create a cloud based, verifiable account of the situation, as it honestly occurred. The use of cellular phones, tablets, and computers in co-ordination with websites and data storage external to the location of the home, such as Ustream, Livestream, and Justin.tv, is recommended.

    ***John Doe’s template***

    The person in question: John Doe, is not here.

    (The Name of the John Doe’s therapist, psychiatrist, or physician) is the medical practitioner for John Doe. His number is (xxx-xxx-xxxx). Upon being made aware of this, you are legally obligated to contact (John Doe’s doctor) at (xxx-xxx-xxxx) before attempting to make any contact with John Doe.

    As the standing of the SAFE ACT is in question, if your intervention is based on the SAFE ACT, I will only recognize federal search warrants. Given that federal law supercedes state law, only your Federal Search Warrants will be recognized. Ignorance of the law is no excuse for failure to comply.

    I am (state relationship to John Doe) and I can attest to his long-term stability and state of mind. For example, “I am John Doe’s father, I have been living with him for 10 years continuously, and I can attest to his state of mind.”

    Given the preceding information: proven stability and mental health contact, as per the New York Mental Hygiene Law, (John Doe) has the right to remain in his home.

    Any attempts to gain entry to this house, specifically for the purpose of removing possessions or person’s without a federal search warrant, will justify use of the Castle Doctrine, as defined under New York law below:

    A person in possession or control of, or licensed or privileged to be in, a dwelling or an occupied building, who reasonably believes that another person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such dwelling or building, may use deadly physical force upon such other person when he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate
    the commission or attempted commission of such
    burglary.

    Obviously, violence is not advised, as overwhelming force will likely be used by any police officers that feel threatened, and it will more than likely hurt the family members of the afflicted. However, existing New York law, when viewed in co-ordination with recent changes in Indiana law regarding police raids, affirms the right of a person to protect their property and family from violent intervention by police.

    The absence of supporting family members does not, by itself, invalidate this template. First, never open the door. Second, obviously, never step outside, into a public place.

    Once officers are told the name and number of you or your family member’s mental health provider or physician, they are legally obligated to make contact with that person. Once officers are told, by supporting family members or room mates, that the person in question is safe and stable, they no longer have the right to carry out the involuntary evaluation order, and will require a search warrant or probable cause to enter the home. Because you: the conscientious citizen, will have used electronic devices to record and stream the circumstances of the incident to another location, their ability to lie or pervert the truth will be diminished; thus, should they enter the home, their criminal culpability, and your legally justified response, will be more easily proven.

    That said, should anyone ever attempt to use this post/letter against me, during the execution of another of these types of illegal searches and seizures, I will not respond with violent force. I will document the incident, and seek the criminal and civil prosecution of all involved parties to the full extent of the law.

    A Citizen of NY

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