Defensive Gun Use of the Day: Hey Rocky, Watch Me Pull A Rabbit Out of My Hat – Or Not – Edition

Some readers may reckon that the snowmobiler above could have ended this animal encounter without applying GLOCK perfection. All I know is that angry moose is not something I’d want to face without GLOCK perfection. And the caption underneath the video informs us that the shooter’s son was behind him on another vehicle, preventing a strategic withdrawal. So . . . result. And another reason why I never, ever go into the wild without a firearm. [h/t JT]

comments

  1. avatar Mike Crognale says:

    Does anyone know if they went back and harvested the meat?

    1. avatar Jake_in_AK says:

      Depending on where he was- he’d have to.
      Where I live in AK, fish and game won’t hassle you much for a defensive gun use against moose. As long as you report it and turn all the meat in.

      Related: what the heck is a snowmobile? It’s Called a SnowMachine. Anything else is heresy.

      1. avatar JoshtheViking says:

        I thought Snowmachine was a Canadian term?

      2. avatar fscken says:

        I’ve lived in WA all my life and they have always been called Snowmobiles here.

  2. avatar SnJohnson says:

    He was more than justified in his action. He tried to scare it away and it attacked him, if he tried going around the same thing would have happened. This is also an excellent case for carrying with a round in the chamber. Imagine if the moose was on him? It wouldn’t be so easy to get that Glock ready.

    1. avatar MW says:

      Exactly what I was thinking.

    2. avatar B says:

      I freaking hate moose. Nature’s jerks. Too big, stupid, and dangerous to know not to mess with people. Any one that wanders near towns and people aggressively should be immediately put down. If you don’t then aggressiveness gets passed down. Deer are cute and skittish. Elk are majestic. Moose are big ungainly potential murder machines. Its almost always kids or women too. They are like Kangaroos and Dolphins, some of the very few large higher order animals that kill for fun and not food.

      1. avatar Lee says:

        Big Dumb aggressive yes but damn they taste good.

        1. avatar ropingdown says:

          Moose are definitely good food.

    3. avatar Conway Redding says:

      All he needed to do was turn around and go home. After all, he was in the moose’s territory. Trigger-happy asshole.

      1. avatar Hugh Talkintome says:

        Did anyone notice that the guy’s child was behind him on another Ski-Doo. There was no retreat other that through the moose.

      2. avatar Chris from Iowa says:

        He did exactly what he was supposed to do. Stood up on the vehicle to make himself look larger, shouted and made noise to ward the animal off, and even gave it three chances. It attacked him and he still didn’t shoot it until it turned to charge again. Sorry, but sooner or later you have to pay the stupid tax.

      3. avatar Hal says:

        I’ll go out on a limb and assume that ol’ Conway here has never lived in an environment that had moose.

      4. avatar Lee says:

        Reading is fundamental … the guy was blocked buy his son behind him and most snow mobiles do not have reverse.

        1. avatar Lee says:

          Or am i wrong about the reverse thing…?

      5. avatar Carry.45 says:

        I’ve been charged by a mother moose and calf before while on the solo portion of outward bound. Terrifying experience. Still managed to keep my excrement in I’m proud to say.

  3. avatar maiko says:

    Condition 3.

  4. avatar T says:

    This why I don’t like the idea of racking a round first,then engaging. But good for him by protecting himself and son from further attacks by the moose.

    1. avatar Barstow Cowboy says:

      Maybe he thought that the moose would get intimidated when he chambered the round, like the way people in movies get intimidated when the guy with the pistol racks the slide, as if to say,”I’m serious, I’ll shoot you”. Maybe the moose doesn’t watch a lot of movies.

    2. avatar Lee says:

      Here in the Detroit area you rack a round drop your mag and replace it lol.

  5. avatar MadMedic says:

    I sent this link and story in via email. Was I the only one?! Pretty cool to see you guys post on it.

    I spent an hour researching Glock 20’s (not known what caliber this dude used) after watching this video!

    1. avatar SelousX says:

      Just another reason I’m getting my G20. It certainly won’t guarantee my safety, but I’ll at least have a chance as I’m hiking.

      1. avatar Lee says:

        10mm…Nice

  6. Probably would have done it differently…. but I never 2nd guess the guy that had 20seconds to make the decision or die. Monday morning quarterbacking is easy when you are watching it on the boob-tube. But when you are there, cold, limited on what to do, and have to make a decision “RIGHT NOW!” Well, that’s different.

  7. avatar Chris. says:

    That guy is lucky the moose didn’t take him out on that first kick to the chest.

    Moose are bigger than you, and they know it. I was stationed on an Airforce base in Alaska – we’d have moose wander the main street – right by the cars, Aircraft taking off – they don’t care.

    1. avatar B says:

      This is why I hate them, moose don’t give a f***. They are either too stupid to know they are food to us, or they are evil.

    2. avatar joelt_1 says:

      I saw a video once of a bull moose attacking a school bus on one of those caught-on-tape tv shows. It chased the bus for quite a ways continuing to attack it. I don’t remember how the encounter ended, but I think the moose eventually let the bus go.

  8. avatar Fug says:

    So what caliber was the Glock? Looked like a smaller model.

    It Certainly did the job, seemed to be a head shot?

    1. avatar Mike says:

      It looked like a Beretta Nano to me at first, but the trigger guard isn’t right.

    2. avatar Lee says:

      Sub compact aka baby Glock.

  9. avatar CoolBreeze says:

    I wish he would have made sure Mr. Moose was d.e.a.d. Don’t think the animal should suffer. Maybe shot placement took care of that, but driving off without checking it out…..of course I don’t know all the facts. And he sure deployed in short order.

    1. Maybe he went back and finished it off, but I think the idea was to get his son away from a wounded and still potentially dangerous animal.

      1. avatar Barstow Cowboy says:

        Maybe he was concerned that this moose might have just been the lead element of a moose pack. For all he knew there were 3 more moose hiding behind a bush somewhere nearby, and they might’ve been waiting for the lead moose to take him down so they could swarm him. You can never be too careful. That’s why after you shoot a moose you’re supposed to scan left, right and behind for additional moose (meese? meeses?) BEFORE you reluctantly reholster.

    2. avatar the ruester says:

      Yep. What if it was really just an unarmed furry?

      1. avatar Maineuh says:

        Ha! I snorted.

    3. avatar Gunr says:

      I noticed the leg of the moose was moving as they went by after shooting it. It was probably still alive.

      1. avatar Chris. says:

        It’s not uncommon for mortally wounded animals to twitch for minutes after being shot – even shot in the head. Instant death is rarely “instant”.

    4. avatar Hannibal says:

      There’s a difference between a DGU and hunting, even when it’s a non-human. Shoot to stop it and gtfo unless you’re sure the area is safe… especially if your family’s there. Don’t want to risk the moose deciding it wasn’t done yet.

      1. avatar PM says:

        Exactly, in this kind of situation you shoot until you stop the threat and then immediately MOVE to safe location as soon as the opportunity presents itself. You don’t stick around and try to take on an injured moose with a handgun. You get the authorities out there to investigate and properly treat or dispatch the animal as necessary.

      2. avatar Lee says:

        You got that right years ago i was kicked by a whitetail i let lay for near an hour before i got close.

  10. avatar jwm says:

    I’ve only ever had to shoot a dog in the woods to protect myself. A moose. That’s a much bigger and potentially more dangerous animal. I have no experience with moose asides from saturday morning cartoons but I understand they’re short sighted and short tempered and can be very aggressive.

    1. avatar AmericanSpirit says:

      800 to 1200 lbs of stupid herbivore with bad eyesight is a bad thing to be in close proximity to.

      They’re waaaay bigger than deer and have few problems doing their best at kicking the sh!t out of whatever they deem a threat.

      Even bears tend not to mess with full-grown moose.

      Remember this next time you want the perfect nature shot of a moose and its’ calf. So that you don’t end up D-E-D dead.

  11. avatar Coe says:

    “…applying GLOCK perfection.”

    Oh Rob, you never cease to crack me up.

  12. avatar Wood says:

    I would not want to face moose with Glock, would prefer Ruger Blackhawk in .44 mag or .45 colt.

    1. avatar Chris. says:

      If you get to pick can I have my 30.06 as a minimum?

      1. avatar JasonM says:

        If we’re choosing, I’ll take my .308 and a kilometer of open ground between us.

        1. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

          I pick on my couch with a beer watching moose on the Discovery Channel.

      2. avatar Hannibal says:

        Sure you can pick. I’d choose a handgun for convenience but make it a good hefty revolver. Seems like a good compromise.

  13. avatar Jeff says:

    @jwm – That’s funny! That is where my vast Moose experience comes from as well.

  14. avatar Howdy says:

    He shoulda, I woulda, It coulda. Condition Chartreuse 13. The only thing that matters is he was carrying to positive effect. Carry the way you want to carry. Long live everyone’s OPTION to carry!

    1. avatar Barstow Cowboy says:

      …yeah, k, …but I TOTALLY would’ve done it better than that guy did!

  15. avatar AecDuck says:

    Got a pretty decent adrenaline rush just watching this. More than justifiable actions; the animal charged him, attacked and looked to be rearing up for another charge.

  16. avatar CoolBreeze says:

    No second guessing here. He gave the moose the first shot at him. Then acted to handle the situation as presented to him. Well done.

  17. avatar crm114 says:

    Too bad it had to play out that way, that looked like a very young moose.

    1. avatar B says:

      Lucky him. A full grown moose would likely have killed him with the first kick, then finished off his son at its leisure.

  18. avatar nnjj says:

    Look out! He’s coming right for us!

    1. avatar Lazer says:

      Haha Classic! Idk if everyone missed that or we’re the only South Park fans but I got a lil chuckle.

      1. avatar DonS says:

        “Democrats piss me off!”

  19. avatar Coxsone says:

    I always razz one of my hunting buddies who carries a .45 when deer hunting outside of South Fork, CO. Maybe not so much anymore.

    1. avatar AmericanSpirit says:

      When bears and wolves tend to leave an particular kind of animal alone, it’s something to be mindful of.

      And there’s definitely a significant moose population in the High Rockies; not like Alaska, but enough to generate legitimate concern.

  20. avatar BTinAfghan says:

    Moose are very dangerous animals. To see them lumbering along some think they are docile they are not. They can move fast on land and in the water. Several people are killed by moose every year. I remember seeing them walk through town growing up in Maine. When in the woods, know what wildlife and carry accordingly.

    1. avatar Comrade Terry says:

      Had ’em in the backyard in Presque Isle. They were all over town.

      Black bears, too.

      1. avatar BTinAfghan says:

        Yeah, saw them around UMPI all the time. Black bears were not only everywhere, they are smart too. They learned to get into the garbage. Live in pan-handle of FL now still have black bear getting into garbage.

        1. avatar AmericanSpirit says:

          Please buy some chain and bear-proof trash cans! I’m broke or I’d chip a few coins to assist on the purchase.

          It’s not worth future problem (read as: accustomed to people and therefore soon-to-be-dead) bears to brush off the issue.

        2. avatar BTinAfghan says:

          I already have, some of the neighbors for some foolish reason refuse. I am moveing back to GA when I get back, not as many bears, but coyote and boar are becoming a problem. I live well out of town and love nature; but I also respect nature.

  21. avatar Randy Drescher says:

    That must have been a 45 Glock, everyone knows a 9mm one couldn’t kill a baby bunny.. (running & ducking).

    1. avatar JasonM says:

      No need to duck, we’re all armed with 9mms. You’ll be fine.

    2. avatar Barstow Cowboy says:

      That’s what I was thinking. It had to be a .45, or maybe some kind of glock modified to fire a .50AE.

      1. avatar B says:

        Were I in Alaska I wouldn’t carry smaller than 10mm. Its likely a G20 since he seemed like a local. Tough for me to tell by recoil considering guys like Hicock45 have less movement shooting 44 than I do shooting 9mm.

      2. avatar BillC says:

        Glocks don’t get modified to shoot a .50AE, they get modified to shoot the .50GI

        1. avatar Barstow Cowboy says:

          I was sorta being sarcastic, riffing off of the old saw that only a ginormous is adequate for self defense.

  22. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    Close call.
    “Animals” can be very unpredictable.

  23. avatar Anmut says:

    Initially I thought, well there was no reason to attack after the moose retreated, but then I thought (as I’m sure this guy did), hell he already came after a guy on a running snowmobile, what’s to stop him from attack again or attacking someone else. Good shoot. Hope he got to keep the meat.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      Full grown mooses, complete with hat-rack, have been know to face off against Volkswagens and other small cars without fear. Snowmobiles are child’s play – unless they’re armed.

      1. avatar joelt_1 says:

        As I noted in another comment, I saw a video of a bull moose charge and attack a school bus, and then continue to chase it. I saw it on one of those caught-on- tape tv shows. If one is willing to attack a school bus, then a snomobile or a volkswagen are nothing.

  24. avatar Zebulon Pike says:

    He saw the moose from a ways off–definitely outside charging range. Then he kept driving closer. Why? How long had he waited for the animal to move itself out of the way?

    I’m not talking about after the charge–I agree that once the animal charged he had to defend himself. I’m talking about the beginning of the video. The moose was there first and had just as much right to be there as the snowmobiler. Yet he approached anyway–a bit overconfident, methinks.

    1. avatar the ruester says:

      I do realize that the moose has no concept of property lines and so forth, but he was on a snowmobile path. Without a snowmobile. Something had to give, and unfortunately in this case it was the human who had the litter to protect.

      1. avatar Zebulon Pike says:

        That’s why I want to know: how long did he wait? The moose was 35-50 yds away. I realize it is difficult/dangerous to turn the snowmobile around. But he wasn’t required to keep going.

        1. avatar Randy Drescher says:

          It didn’t look like good judgement to me, moving towards the moose. Try that with a bear & it won’t turn out too skippy.

        2. avatar Toasty says:

          He might’ve been on his way home out from a ride or something. That path may have been his only way home. We don’t know what’s under that snow cover off the path, it may look passable but so does the lake on my uncles property when its slushy and covered in snow, but still not safe enough to walk on (let alone ride a snowmobile over). He tried not to kill it though, as we all saw, but he had to after it attacked him and started to reposition itself for another charge. Plus what other alternative did he have? “Honey i can’t come home, there’s a moose blocking the path.”

        3. avatar Randy Drescher says:

          Toasty, I would have waited 2 or 3 days for the bear to move, no not really. What I would have done is waited as long as I could & then fired a few shots in the mooses direction. If I need to I can shoot man or animal, its just a last resort for me.

        4. avatar Defens says:

          Those damned SYG laws claim yet another victim! Young Travon Mooe was just on his way to the A&P for a Slurpee. Moose love those things.

    2. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

      He had polymer courage, even worse than liquid courage. This punk taunted that moose and provoked its aggressive reponse. It wasn’t until that moose bitch slapped him in the snow that his happy fun times came to an end. So he shot the moose and then scampered away with his own tail between his legs. Hell, he didn’t call for his son to follow or anything. He didn’t even look back to make sure his kid was there until he himself was safe.

      Story title should have read: “Cowardly gun bully murders moose.”

      1. avatar Randy Drescher says:

        This guy is no hero to me. I might have seen something more f’d up on the tube, I can’t remember when though.

      2. avatar M J Johnson says:

        I tend to agree. Did he have to provoke the moose? Could he have waited for it to leave the path and then continued? Could doing that have prevented the violent encounter altogether?

        An even better question – What happened before this? Because it’s obvious the recording started in the middle of the encounter.

        What don’t we know, yet?

    3. avatar Steve says:

      Living in Alaska, encountering moose on a trail is very common. In my own experience, 99.99% of them end with the moose vacating the area, especially if you do as this guy did – make noise, make yourself large, etc. I’m sure that’s what he was counting on. Whether correct or not, even people jogging, or on mountain bikes, will often ‘push’ the moose out off the trail by aggressively moving forward, slowly, like this guy did. Again, you can say this is stupid, but it’s common behavior for a reason – it works in almost all encounters.
      Now, an astute observer might say that at about 15 second mark in the video, the moose’s head is low, arguably swinging side to side, and I would imagine based on this behavior, its ears were also back (can’t see ears well enough in video). This aggressive body language would have been visible to a first-person (non-video) observer a little earlier, and I think it could be argued that the signs were there indicating that this was not the moose to try to push around, at least not that day. Therefore, stop advancing and wait it out to see what happens. If you try to ‘move’ a moose off the trail, you really need to be hypersensitive to the moose’s body language – it’s the only way it can communicate with you.
      That said, I don’t know where this guy is, what his experience is. Risking critical injury while people are depending on you, who-knows-how-far from help, is not an option. I think there’s some room for forgiveness for not being fluent in moose-moves, and we can get unfairly critical watching the instant replay. Fact is, a moose charged him, attempted first blood, and he dealt with it in a way I hope everyone in this situation (including me) would have the presence of mind to do. Put the oxygen mask on yourself, then your kid. His priorities were right in my book.

      1. avatar ropingdown says:

        In Alaska hikers and mountain bikers push moose off the trail, but not into deep snow. Once the snows have been on the ground awhile moose get hungry. When the snows deepen, the moose also get very tired. “Moving them” in the less-cold seasons isn’t the same as pushing up on them in the dead of winter. You say that AF&G wouldn’t give someone static from shooting a moose while sitting on an ATV or snowmobile. I find that very hard to believe. It is certainly against AK law.

        1. avatar Steve says:

          I understand what you’re saying about expectations for moose (and human) behavior being different in the winter than in the summer, and agree – that’s why I stress the need to pay attention to body language of the animal. Circumstantial observation is important, and F&G will tell you the same.

          I never said AK F&G wouldn’t give him static – not sure where you’re getting that – but I may be willing to argue the point. It’ll be fun, let’s review:

          Guy rolls up on a moose, arguably making some mistakes in reading body language, but certainly not harassing the moose with intent to aggravate it. He made noises and used his vehicle engine to make noise. (could he have stayed put and waited for moose to leave trail? could he have turned around without incurring more risk?) After the moose attacked him physically, he fired a warning shot over the moose’s head, the moose starts to charge and he quickly responds with wounding or killing shots (could he have waited longer between first and second shots?).

          The questions above are the vectors for F&G to “give him static”, as you say. Keep in mind there are a lot of variables we don’t know from this video – how far was he from home? How far was he from help (in worst case)? How much gas did he have left? Was going back the way he came a safe option? How many hours till dark? Was there a moose (or worse) on the trail behind him as well? Having some idea of these answers would change the nature of criticism. For example, if he were returning from an out-and-back, 30 miles from nearest homes, one hour from dark, the moose was between him and home, and little gas left, it might change your thinking about how long you want to stare down that moose, and what kind of risky outcomes you want to expose your child to. Would the moose have yielded the trail? If we suppose the moose couldn’t be pushed off the trail, we’re supposing he could have taken a different route home, and that’s certainly not clear. AK F&G would be contending with the same questions and hypotheticals.

          There’s enough incident history of DLP (Defense of Life & Property) moose killings with sketchier circumstances (9/24/13, 10/18/13) without video footage of a hoof in the face to make me pretty confident that he wouldn’t not get much static from F&G. You sound like you’re from AK, and if so, imagine the DLP form this guy would submit, along with video footage, and let me know if you think F&G would cite this guy for wrongdoing. Based on the law, what did this guy violate? It’s sad a moose died, but far more moose are killed by cars each year than DLP.

  25. avatar Joel says:

    There’s a hiking trail near me that has some deer and wild pigs. Because of that, and the potential for stray dogs I never go there unarmed.

  26. avatar Maineuh says:

    Up here in Maine, we drink with moose. Sometimes we play poker. I once dated a moose; lovely girl. But I fear I’ve said too much.

    1. avatar Alpo says:

      Maineuh winz the internet today.

    2. avatar JasonM says:

      A Møøse once bit my sister…

      1. avatar jwm says:

        Unlike zombies and operators Monty Python never goes out of fashion.

      2. avatar Gregolas says:

        “Mind you, moose bites can be quite painful…”

  27. avatar Jim says:

    If you really want to get your heart rate up, read the comments on the YouTube page. Some absolutely insane individuals livid at this guy for defending himself and his son.

    1. avatar S_J says:

      Seriously. Bunch of PETA hippies and Monday morning quarterbacks in there.

      It doesn’t matter what the snowmobiler did or didn’t do for the moose’s sake. It’s a wild animal, it doesn’t speak people and you can’t reason with it. The thing freaking charged him. Any potentially lethal animal that’s willing to bluff charge a grown man then turn back around and charge AGAIN is either overly aggressive or sick and is begging for a quick lead injection.

    2. avatar H.R. says:

      Once the moose started charging he didn’t really have a choice, but before that he did see it a ways off. He still approached it… and anyone around moose knows they can be dangerous. They kill more people than bears.

      I’m no PETA type and I’ve killed an animal in self-defense, but I wouldn’t do something that an animal could take as picking a fight if I could help it.

      Maybe it’s not fair to judge the guy from one minute of video, but still…

  28. The comments on the video make for interesting reading.

  29. avatar Frank Masotti says:

    He should be arrested. There was no reason to antagonize that moose. Oh my son was behind me. No excuse to purposely upset a wild animal, kill it, and then leave. It’s like walking up to someone on the street, hitting them in the face, then claiming self deference when they come at you and you shoot them. Absolutely no excuse for this. This just makes us all look bad.
    All of this is IMHO of course.

    1. avatar MW says:

      I always kill cute baby innocent animals out of self deference. Moose are dangerous, end of story. You people don’t know if he and/or his son were injured, wet, far from shelter, or anything else that could have made the moose more than an inconvenience at any range. As the more rational people in here have already stated, you can tell us what the right thing to do is when you’re the one in the video.

    2. avatar B says:

      Moose are dangerous as heck. He tried to scare it away. It looked like he didn’t have room to turn around. The moose approached him. And I sure as heck wouldn’t turn my back on anything over 200 pounds, let alone put a child between it and me. People are more important than animals. People are more important than things. End of Story. I wish more people felt like that, would take care of alot of the world’s issues.

  30. avatar Tyler says:

    Anyone know what model Glock that was?

  31. avatar ropingdown says:

    I’m sure there are other moose hunters on this thread. Disagree with me if you do: I’ve been hunting them for a bit more than thirty years in the Stockholm archipeligo region off and on, perhaps two out of every three years. It was obvious the shooter had more snowmobile and Glock experience than moose knowledge. He came across a hungry winter moose reluctant to wade back into the deep snow. The snowmobile would have had less trouble off the track.

    I have no idea why the shooter chose to make the noise he did, which sounded like a challenge as much as anything. Had he fired a few shots in the air the moose almost certainly would have accepted being driven off the path.

    If he was hunting moose and had a tag, fine. If not, the video is pathetic.

    1. avatar ropingdown says:

      Yes, I realize many viewers think he fired a warning shot. I watched the video three times. The moose had barely had time to do more than be startled when the shooter fired his subsequent shots. A warning shot before he moved in close might have been sensible, given that he was prepared to kill it if needed.

      It also does not appear to be during the fall rut, given the amount of snow. During the rut large male moose can be a danger, especially if the wrong sounds are made.

    2. avatar Zebulon Pike says:

      Yes–the shooter should explain why he decided to approach a moose hooting and hollering. The snow conditions would have made turning his vehicle around very difficult. But he didn’t have to go forward. Was he in a hurry? If so, I hope it was all worth it.

      This should not be classified as a DGUOTD. If anything, it fuels those who would say…”See, if he wasn’t packing a gun, he would have been more careful and waited longer for the moose to leave. Instead, his gun gave him a false sense of confidence and a moose had to die for it.”

    3. avatar Comrade Terry says:

      +1 to Ropingdown’s comment.

    4. avatar H.R. says:

      I don’t know any of the circumstances leading up to it so I sort of reserve judgment, but I’m inclined to agree that challenging a moose is generally not well-advised. Just because you have a gun doesn’t mean you have to pick a fight, even with a moose.

      Turning a snow machine around isn’t impossible, especially with another rider with you to help. I have been out on them and been so COLD, cold like I’ve never felt before, and known that I’d just about tested my luck and needed to get warm PDQ or I was going to have problems. I could understand risking continuing if that was the case. Even in that case, a warning shot or three from farther off to try and scare the moose would have been better than approaching and creating a situation where he had to kill the animal.

      Again, I’m no PETA apologist and I wasn’t there, but this wasn’t a clear case either.

    5. avatar Barstow Cowboy says:

      I wouldn’t know what to do if I ran across a moose, but I don’t think that means I don’t have a right to defend myself if out of ignorance I provoke a moose and he attacks me. Call me a chauvinist, but I think that the snowmobiler’s right to live outweighs the moose’s right to be a moose and attack the snowmobiler who provoked him. I don’t know how to charm snakes into baskets, so does that mean I shouldn’t be allowed to kill one if I’m out in the desert and see one coiled up and sticking his tongue out at me?

      1. avatar H.R. says:

        If you saw a snake out in the desert, would you give it a little space and let it go about its business or would you repeatedly approach it until it struck at you?

        Personally, if I can go around, that’s what I do.
        If I can just watch and wait for a minute and give the animal a chance to wander off of its own accord, that’s what I do.

        I’m not saying you don’t have every right to defend yourself, but a moose also should be allowed to just be a moose. If the guy hadn’t shot the moose and had gotten stomped instead, it would have been from his own poor judgment.

        Having said that, it didn’t look intentional. If it had been, he’d have had a round chambered and he wouldn’t have let the moose make contact the first time. Maybe it was just inexperience and maybe it isn’t fair for me to sit here in a warm living room judging a guy who might not have known any better. But it’s still a sad situation that maybe could have been avoided a hundred ways, ranging from a five minute wait while filming an animal that many people never get to see in the wild to a warning shot from 75 yards away.

  32. avatar I_Like_Pie says:

    That is the very opposite of how a DGU should play out.

    Look at it this way. If you were walking downtown and saw a known, dangerous thug on the sidewalk 50 yards away….would you walk up right up to the guy hoping that he would politely move out of the way?

    Seems exactly what this guy did. It is possible to be justified and wrong at the same time.

    1. avatar MD says:

      I saw this video earlier on Facebook. I thought the guy did a very poor job of avoiding and de-escalating.

  33. avatar Robin says:

    What a scumbag. He is nothing but a poacher. This wasn’t self-defense. This was deliberately provoking the moose and using it’s reaction as an excuse to kill it. Excellent object lesson to teach your children: If something, or someone, is in your way, provoke them so you can claim self defense. I hope the next one gets this guy. He deserves it. All of you who praised this guy should be ashamed of yourselves.

    1. avatar Marcus Albarado says:

      How did he provoke it ? He gave it many chances to run, he yelled at it. I guess you think George Zimmerman murdered poor little innocent Travon Martin ?

      1. avatar ropingdown says:

        If I may say so, the way this man handled the moose is the way Trayvon’s family thinks Zimmerman handled Trayvon.

        Moose and red deer do not mind the sounds of machinery, cars and such. These do not usually scare them. If they hear gunfire or human voices talking, they will usually flee if they think they can. If they feel crowded or threatened, they are as likely to charge, whether you are a man or a moose. This guy either did not know a thing about moose (evidenced by moving in close and the type of noise he made) or he wanted to shoot the moose.

        It is very worth noticing this: As the moose begins to retreat, steadily walking away, the shooter starts to move forward on the moose again, as much as telling the moose “I’m stayin’ on you, pal.” That is not the behavior of somebody who wants the moose to go away.

        (I don’t agree with the family, incidentally.)

        1. avatar MD says:

          Yeah, when the guy advanced on the moose, twice, I lost respect for him and his decision-making abilities.

          Don’t get me wrong, I will use deadly force to protect myself, but I think this guy did a piss-poor job of dealing with the initial situation.

    2. avatar Randy Drescher says:

      I’m not happy to see this moose killed either Robin & I think he used really poor judgement. It is possible he was trying scare the moose off the path with the snowmobile. If he was out to shoot that moose his gun would have been out long before the first charge. My humble opinion is he took the life of that moose because of stupidity.

    3. avatar Jim says:

      No Robin, you should be ashamed of yourself for having more concern for a moose than a human being. Would you really say the same thing if it was your family?

  34. avatar TRP says:

    Think a 357 or 44 mag would have been more appropriate to carry in the woods. I carry a S&W 629 5″ just in case… 1 or 2 shots max. More economical!

  35. avatar TangledThorns says:

    This guy is an asshole and what he did is considered animal cruelty for antagonizing the poor animal, shooting it and leaving it there to die slowly. I don’t know how any fellow readers here can support this action.

    1. avatar joelt_1 says:

      Whether or not you handled the situation properly to try and avoid a conflict is one thing, but one thing he did not do was “antagonize” the animal. He was trying to warn it from a far off that he was there so as not to spook it and cause an incident, I’m pretty sure that’s what every park ranger and wild life expert tells you to do when there are bear around. From everything ive either read or heard Moose are every bit as dangerous and prone to attack people as abear. This guy notified it by hollering and clapping his hands. He then tried to stand up on his snowmobile to make himeself look bigger. About the only thing I wouldn’t have done was to inch closer, but the thing was coming towards him, my only thought is that he was trying to spook it into leaving by moving fast and using the noise of the motor. The guy then started saying woah, woah, to as it approached. I’m no expert, and can’t tell if what he did was 100% right, but I can I believe from watching the video that he made every effort to try to avoid an encounter. I doubt I would have done as well in his shoes.

  36. avatar Mat says:

    This right here is exactly why I started packing bear spray, I had a very heated experience with a cow moose w/ calve in Montana and I did not want to kill her.

    Of course I back that up with a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in .454 Casull that Bowen Custom Arms put a 4″ barrel on, spitting out 332gr hard cast…

    1. avatar Mat says:

      FYI I was backpacking, nothing motorized, and in heavy timber…

    2. avatar B says:

      You can identify the grizzly scat by its spicy aroma and numerous bells.

  37. avatar Peter says:

    Sure he could have stopped twenty feet earlier, but it looked to me like he was trying to use the sound of the snowmobile and his voice to scare away the moose. Anybody who’s ever been charged by one will tell you they can close 30 feet in the blink of an eye. Putting himself in that position relative to the moose was not the best move, sure, but once it turned to charge the second time he had very little time to act and it’s easy for people to judge him an off-the-hook-killer-wannabe. Given that he was carrying a pistol he’s lucky to have come out of that with his ribs intact.

    A moose has the speed and power to unzip a man with his hooves from sternum to scrotum.

    1. avatar ropingdown says:

      Did you notice that as the moose began, after the first charge, to actually walk away, the shooter began to drive up on the moose again?

  38. avatar JoshtheViking says:

    Personally, I have mixed feelings about this video. The moose was blocking his path, and he did appear to try to scare it away. However, It seems like the moose probably would have roamed off if he would have waited a minute or two. He could have also fired a warning shot before approaching the moose. Also, as ropingdown said, the moose was leaving after the initial encounter, but the guy did make a motion towards the moose which was taken as an additional threat by the moose. I could understand making these mistakes if it had been a day or two since the guy had eaten or if there was an emergency, but to me it seems like the guy just had piss poor judgement. I really hope the meat doesn’t go to waste. The one positive aspect of this video is that it demonstrates the effectiveness of the 10mm and the need for a less lethal option (like mace) in one’s self defense system. Also, I may have to get a Glock 20 or 29.

    1. avatar joelt_1 says:

      With an animal that big and dangerous, I wouldn’t trust mace. If you ignore everything that led up to the attack, and just focus on the attack itself, that guy was lucky that animal didn’t talk him out with that first kick. An animal that large, all he’d half to do is make oneconnecting blow and then its game over. I wouldn’t take the chancethat that animal’s fear or adrenaline wouldn’t override its pain receptors from the mace just long enough to give it a chance to make another hit. Or what if a sudden gust blows it back in your direction. With mace there’s just too many unknowns to chance it, especially with your kid behind you. Its always a sad result to take an animals life, but hesitating to use lethal force may prove lethal to yourself.

  39. avatar rlc2 says:

    Gonna defer to the hunters with real world experience…

    Here’s advice from Alaska Fish and Game:
    http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=livewith.moose

    Here’s another:
    http://survivalgrounds.com/northernmoose.php

    If I were going snowmobiling in moose or bear country I’d be prepared to know their behavior, and best way to avoid or shoo them off- or retreat before putting myself in extremis –

    and this guy did move forward, after stopping- and it almost looked like there was an old track leading left at the beginning, right where he made the decision to move up on a narrow lane with brush and deep snow limiting his options to moving forward only, or fighting.

    Seems to me that ANY handgun is imperfect in stopping a charging animal that can kill you with one stomp. IMHO this guy was lucky he wasn’t dead after the first charge…

    1. avatar ropingdown says:

      The advice given on the Alaska state site you linked accords with my experience, and with what people told me when I was a novice. The worst thing to do is crowd or chase the moose. They aren’t going to run away if they think you’re following them on your ATV or snowmobile.

      People in the comments have often mixed bear and moose when considering what should have been done. Let me ask: If that had been a grizzly on the path, should the guy have acted the same way? Closed with the grizzly twice? Started up on the grizzly as it began retreating? Made odd non-human-speech sounds at it? Failed to fire a warning shot when he was well away from the grizzly? The answers to me seem obvious.

  40. avatar Gary says:

    If you haven’t been on a snow mobile or faced a moose (been there, done that) here’s some considerations:
    1. Snow stays loosely packed around trees. If he’d tried to turn around off the track and retreat he may have gotten bogged down in waist deep snow and still had a moose at this back.
    2. Moose are fast and unpredictable. I would have done about the same by trying to alert it far enough away to let him leave. But I think the moose wanted the track to himself (see above about loose snow).
    3. Would love to know what caliber that was. I always carry Glock 22 in CO and WY, but I never expected the results he got on an animal that big. As to not having a round in the chamber, it was probably pocket carried (who buys a belt big enough to carry a holster that fits around a snow suit). Good safety call since he had to pull off mittens, reach into a pocket, etc.

  41. avatar Chris says:

    I’m a snowmobiler, when approached by snowmobiles animals typically run away. They don’t like the noise, the machine is foreign to them, they’re usually startled and take off. I didn’t feel the snowmobiler approaching the moose in the manner he did, was an uncommon way of moving animals off trail. That’s what you do when you don’t have much other choice. Did anyone else notice how deep that snow was just off trail? The moose stepped off trail and almost got stuck. That would’ve been a nightmare to try and turn a couple sleds around on that path with an unruly moose standing at your back. What did shock me was how prepared this guy was, I’ve never ridden with a firearm, and I probably still wont. Man though, he was ready act.

    My perspective,

    He tried to move the animal without force, the animal responded negatively. He verbally halted the first charge, the animal came back and noise didn’t stop the second charge. The animal ran up trail and turned for another charge. That first shot didn’t change its mind or it progress on its third charge, the sledder didn’t hesitate and put it down permanently. I’m impressed, the dude acted when it counted.

  42. avatar cubby123 says:

    The discipline of firearms is not to use them unless forced to.Wyatt Earp pistol whipped drunks rather then kill them.The point being Life is precious , two or four legged.This guy had options he picked a bad one.I carry every day and used to carry in the Sierra s cause of bear and they are a danger.But I went the other way when I saw them.I could have killed them and maybe justifyably but my choice let everyone go home to their families.No harm no foul. This guy was asking for it.He could have stopped , had lunch and let the moose continue on it’s way.We were not there! But I might have handled it differently.Just Sayin.

  43. avatar Jim says:

    A moose died, big deal. Some of you act like it was your firstborn child. Of course we dont slaughter animals needlessly but come on, this is some serious bleeding heart sentimentality for an aggressive animal that attacked a man who couldnt retreat. For the love of everything holy stop worshipping animals and be thankful a fellow human being survived. If it was your family, i bet you wouldnt be so insanely horrified by a dead rampaging moose that attacked your loved ones. Get a grip.

    1. avatar cubby123 says:

      Hey no one said it wasn’t justified and if it was my family I might have done the same thing were just saying Possibly avoidable.Not” just a dead moose, big deal” . I just respect life more than most , everybodys, if that makes me a bleeding heart, so be it, free country!

    2. avatar ropingdown says:

      He wasn’t defending his ‘family’ against an insane rampaging moose. He was closing on a moose repeatedly during the hardest time of year for moose, deep winter. The man was 51 years old. The son in the last few frames looks to be an adult.

      Moose are a valuable resource. For example, we have the right on the farm to shoot 1.5 moose per year (three moose in any two years). If we violate that we’ll lose the right to hunt any. You can feed a family for many months on the meat of one adult moose. The goal is to nurture the moose population, not harass them. It isn’t a matter of Bambi’ism. It is about valuing moose. Five random shots (it’s a pistol, not a scoped rifle) at a terrified moose isn’t going to preserve meat. Many moose don’t make through the winter snow pack time. They starve and become exhausted walking through the deep snow.

      It’s against the law in most places to shoot a wild animal from a motor vehicle, including an ATV or snowmobile. It isn’t an excuse to close on a wild animal and then claim “it made me shoot it!” Not in Alaska. Not in Sweden. Not in Main.

      Many comments read as though the rules related to urban assualts should apply. “He had to save his family.” What? Try pulling that kind of talk on an Alaska F&G game warden. It won’t get you far if you chose to get closer to the grizzly or moose.

      1. avatar H.R. says:

        Exactly.

    3. avatar Dave says:

      Jim,

      You can’t get through to people who are determined that they are right.

      I don’t blame this guy at all. He did what he had to. I’ve been in this situation and all these people talking this noise have most likely never been. It is what seperates those who have seen it from those who talk about those who have seen it. They don’t get it. Never will. If it happens to them, some of them obviously won’t be prepared and might not ever be in a position to report on what really happened.

      All you can do is shake your head, walk away, and hope they stay safe.

      1. avatar H.R. says:

        No offense, but you’ve got no idea whether any of us have “been there” or not.
        Some of us have, some of us haven’t, and some of us are fifteen year old boys pretending to be hardcore Sappers on the internet.

        This guy’s actions were still ill-advised.

        1. avatar Dave says:

          I pretty much said that, HR. Did you simply want to repeat me?

    4. avatar Accur81 says:

      @Jim,

      No kidding. The man could have waited longer. Perhaps he did, and we don’t have the whole video.

      I could tell you this: I wouldn’t want any of the second-guessers who are saying “don’t shoot that poor homicidal moose” backing me up in a dangerous situation. Man tried to scare off animal, it attacked, and he shot it before it could attack again. A game warden would’ve probably done the same thing. Heck, think of the lawsuit if a game warden hadn’t done the same thing and the moose attacked someone the next day.

      All these “experts” talking about pepper spray and such sound like people who’ve never had to deal with a dangerous or violent situation. It’s pretty easy to say “you should’ve done this and that” from the safety and comfort of your keyboard.

  44. avatar tdiinva says:

    I had to think about his encounter overnight. Unless i am hunting I always give the animals the right of way. I will shoot them if they charge me but I will do nothing to provoke them.

    Last summer I was walking my son’s Plott Hound in Loveland, Colorado when a large bull Elk wondered across our path. The dog went nuts. I could have attempted to get by the field where the Elk had decided to graze but instead of trying to control an aggressive hunting dog and risk a charge I turned around and went home. Don’t taunt dangerous animals and expect them to just run away.

    If I applied “stand your ground” principles to this encounter I would say the guy forfeited his rights when he closed on the Moose. Unless he had a hunting license and the encounter happened in season I would prosecute him. The fact that this is recorded on a video is indication that he was jerk, showing off for his son. If this were a legitimate exercise of self-defense against a dangerous animal I doubt that there would have been a video posted YouTube. I hope the fish and game folks look in to this.

    1. avatar MadMedic says:

      I’m a lifelong hunter and I absolutely disagree with your assertion. As stated eloquently by others above, this individual most likely did NOT approach this animal with the INTENT to force a deadly encounter.

      He attempted to scare the beast off through the noise of his sled and his voice. The animal reacted aggressively and then he responded with appropriate deadly force.

      If this individual was hoping for a thrill kill he would have approached with the weapon out and presented. He would NOT have allowed the animal to physically engage him the first time, an act that could have very likely killed him (he’s lucky to be alive in my opinion).

      Stop with all of this ‘prosecute’ him nonsense. The video shows no intent to kill or maim the animal until the moose violently attacked him. The video also demonstrates RESTRAINT as he did not engage until another charge began. Nothing seen here comes even remotely close to a prosecutable offense.

      1. avatar tdiinva says:

        I want you to think about somehting. You are in the woods and come across a dangerous animal. Are you going to have a camera rolling or are you going focus on the possible dangers? Here what most likely happened. Dad sees the moose in front of him and tells his kid watch me scare this beast away. Kid whips out camera or cellphone and starts filming. The incident goes down as we see. I am not saying that the guy sought out hte moose so he could kill it. He simply acted foolishing in provoking a dangerous animal. That doesn’t get you off the legal hook. His actions led to the death of the moose. He and his son obviously think the entire episode is “cool.” Why else would you post it on public forum. When this local fish and game guys eventually find out about this video they are going talk to him. I bet he is going to pay fine for this incident. It one thing when a wild animal attacks you out the blue or after you take evasisve action. It is something else when you decide to change its behavior.

        1. avatar MadMedic says:

          Once again I disagree with your version of this mans intent. Being attacked was not the behavior he was trying to elicit out of this animal. The behavior he was attempting to elicit was flight, NOT fight.

          The camera rolling does not offend me. Modern times my friend. Everyone is sporting a GoPro or equivalent now days, from soldiers to skydivers and everything (snowmobiles) in between. I doubt the video starts at this moment because he turned it on to capture this specific encounter. It taks 5 seconds to edit a video down to the moments you want to high light.

          The ONLY point of concurrenc I have with you is perhaps he should not of highlighted the tragedy of this event by posting it to social media. That does NOTake his actions criminal.

        2. avatar tdiinva says:

          Intent is not a defense. The guy made some bad decisions in dealing with a dangerous animal. that led to the attack. That does not get you off the hook. How many times have heard of people getting attacked by a wild animal because they approached it. You never approach a species known to be territroial because you do not know where the boundry is. His conduct was reckless.

          I have spent a lot of time n the woods over the years and have encountered all sorts of wildlife. I always try to be aware of where they are and where I am. The only tmie I approach an animal is with a rifile during hunting season. If it is a photographic hunt I use a very long lens.

        3. avatar Kevin says:

          It was a helmet cam, smart guy.

  45. avatar Dave says:

    This video reminds me of something very sad.

    Several years ago a guy I knew only through a video game that we both shared interest in mentioned that he was against firearms. Pointing out the obvious ridiculousness of someone being against firearms while enjoying a first-person-shooter,

    In short, he liked hunting and I tried to get him to take a handgun for backup. He didn’t. He paid for his mistake.

    The ignorant have an excuse for going out into the wilds and making mistakes. They’re ignorant.
    The arrogant have no such defense. A bear, boar, or puma does not view you as the apex predator. You’re prey. Other animals may only be trying to protect themselves, but if someone is silly enough to willingly sacrifice themselves for the sake of a calf or something else, than again I say arrogance has no defense.

    I’ve always carried a .357 as backup. The gun has served my for 27 years. It has done its share of intimidating large animals to back off or play dead.

    People who view this video with outrage haven’t a clue as to how the real world outside their little bubble truly functions. Maybe they will take something from it and get a clue. If not, they will probably end up like a guy I knew and someone I enjoyed gaming with.

    1. avatar tdiinva says:

      And I bet you would not have approached this moose either.

      1. avatar Dave says:

        If I needed to be down that trail, the situation may have gone about the same. If there was another way, I would have given the animal its due ‘area of respect’ and attempted to keep things calm. I’ve been out with my boys and I’ve had to protect them. You just never know how things will go until they begin to unfurl and then you don’t get a lot of time to make decisions based upon what’s legal, moral, or who will give a rat’s behind about it. You have to do something or people get hurt. Ask F&G. They’ll tell you.

        No one knows exactly what was going on other than the part shown in the video. Some animals will charge you from 100 yards. Others need to be right on you before they get nervous enough to charge. But moose, whether 100 feet or 100 yards, they are not predictable. I mean truly not predictable. Whereas if you see a bear at 30 yards, you are more than 80% certain that he is going to come after you. If you see him. You can sometimes smell them before you actually see them, but that means they are much closer than a ‘comfortable’ range.

        With moose, all I can tell anyone is that it does what it wants. People be damned.

      2. avatar whatever says:

        He probably knows more than you did as he was actually there and you weren’t. The knee-jerk contrarian armchair quarterbacking is getting more tedious and less insightful with each post.

        1. avatar Dave says:

          Maybe, but personal attacks on this website are prohibited. Tread with care.

  46. avatar Carl says:

    What a jerk.
    Harassing and murdering a moose is disgusting.

    Don’t get me wrong – I generally dislike the moose and deer that are constantly trampling and eating everything on my small acreage – however, the moron that killed this innocent animal deserves to be in jail.

    I reiterate: what a jerk.

  47. avatar brian says:

    More like a candidate for “irresponsible gun owner of the day.” He didn’t shoot the moose when it attacked him, yet shot it when it was standing still ten feet away. He also gave the moose no time to flee after the warning shot. Did he put the animal out of its misery or just let it bleed out in agony?

    1. avatar Carl says:

      He just drove away and left the animal to suffer. Click the YouTube link if you want to see this cretin flee like a squealing girl.

      1. avatar Accur81 says:

        Sigh.

    2. avatar Tredlite says:

      Brian, that Moose was not afraid, nor was it going to run away. On the contrary, the animal’s posture was aggressive. It would have charged again. This situation wasn’t the fault of the Moose, but there it was… An angry animal, and it wasn’t going to back down. Moose, even young Moose, are very territorial, and will not hesitate to challenge an intruder. This knucklehead created a situation that he could not undo…

  48. avatar gfahey says:

    When training for a CCW permit we were taught to specifically do what this guy did. If someone is coming at you (in your home mind you) you shout for them to stop. You remind them you have a gun. They keep coming? Eminent danger. You go from Col Cooper’s conditions of yellow, to orange, to red.

    Now, was this the moose’s or the sled (we call them that in Maine ayuh) rider’s “home”?

    Sorry but, we humans are at the top of the food chain. Man: 1 Moose: 0

    The moose clearly took to charging again after the first charge. He racked his slide. I’d have done the same. Not only that, how about the once untarnished sled I was riding? 😉

    We teach humans to use force only on someone when they’ve ignored warnings (when that can happen). We are given the right to use equal or superior force to do so. This includes wild animals. Are we supposed to give them a pass? Not me. No sir.

    Sad to see a moose go down in his own territory. I love the animals myself. Key word being “animal”. That’s what they are. Wild animals. IMO, this guy is lucky he didn’t piss off a 1,100 bull. He wouldn’t have made it through the first charge.

  49. avatar Tredlite says:

    This entire incident was caused by the knucklehead on the snow machine.

    The guy in the video was wrong from the beginning. Full grown Moose are seldom afraid of people. Hell, they don’t pay much attention to Grizzlies, except to protect calves. If you’ve never seen a Black Bear fleeing for its life from an angry Bull or Cow, you don’t have much perspective on Moose. The Moose in this instance was a young calf. A full grown bull Moose would have killed this fool. If a Moose is on the trail, you yield the trail. Period. You don’t whoop or make noises in some misguided belief that the Moose will be frightened. If need be, you back up, turn around or simply walk away. Find a different route, or simply wait until the Moose moves on (which, it will). The man initiated this encounter. The guy makes noise and then drives towards the Moose. Can somebody say “stupid”? The Moose, as is usually the case, was unimpressed.

    Now, I have no problem with the guy defending himself. Once he was attacked, and with the Moose was still posturing to charge again, he had every right to shoot. However, if he had demonstrated some common sense, this would never have devolved into the situation it became. It greatly diminishes justification when you create the situation. What if it were a Bear? Would he have been so bold? The fact is, a Moose can be as dangerous as a Bear.

    Anyone who thinks he’s king of the woods, ruler of the trails; that the creatures who live there should make way for them, is, beyond doubt, an idiot. A woodsman would know better. A respecter of wildlife would know better. The guy in the video learned the hard way.

    During our many wilderness hikes, we have encountered Moose several times. On our earliest hikes, we hired a guide, who educated us about Moose. Moose own the woods, and we don’t challenge that. We rarely saw Black Bear. One of those rare occasions when we did, we observed a Bear that wanted to water in a small stream pool where a large bull Moose was feeding. The angry Moose chased the Bear off, and the Bear didn’t dawdle…

    1. avatar gfahey says:

      I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here really.

  50. avatar Shraven says:

    I am 100% in favor of guns and very limited gun control. Unfortunately the only truth about guns here is that some people shouldn’t be allowed to carry them, and that there are a lot of retards who will stand and cheer ANY use of a gun no matter how wrong headed. I suppose a lot of you would be cheering if he has pulled a gun on a ‘big for his age, mentally deficient child’ and shot him in cold blood if the child swung at him in confusion, which is pretty close to what happened here.

    There were half a dozen other options to resolve this situation that didn’t involve shooting the moose. If the moron was too retarded to avoid this confrontation (as he obviously was) then he needed to be removed from the human gene pool. This is a loss for humanity, not a win.

    1. avatar gfahey says:

      Please explain the “half a dozen other” options he had.

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