Weekend Digest: Sign, Sign, Everywhere A Sign Edition

Illinois state Senator Don Harmon

Some sneaky gun control legislation out of Illinois… I know, you’re surprised. Democrat Sen. Don Harmon (above) has proposed Illinois Senate Bill 2669, which is being touted by myfoxchicago.com as a positive thing. They say that Harmon is “proposing that signs be put up that say businesses do allow guns inside.” They further say that the proposal “would allow business owners to post clear signs at building entrances and other places on the premises indicating they do allow concealed firearms.” Sounds good, right? For gunnys, that’s like a “shop here” sign. However, my curiosity was piqued when I saw a quote from a local rep of MDA praising the measure. So I went and read the actual bill information. The current concealed carry law says . . .

that private property owners can prohibit carry on their property, and specifies signage requirements for that prohibition. The assumption being that if it’s not specifically prohibited, it’s allowed. Harmon’s bill would reverse that situation, but there is not a single mention of that fundamental reversal in the news story. It would amend the Firearm Concealed Carry Act such that “a person shall not carry a concealed firearm onto private real property of any type without prior permission from the property owner.” It then says that the owner can give that permission by placing a sign indicating that is the case. See how that works? That’s them “allowing” the placement of the sign. Sneaky backdoor anti-gun legislation, combined with a (deliberately?) misleading news story. Quite a trick.

The Mississippi state legislature will soon consider a bill that will offer a sales tax holiday on outdoor gear the first weekend in September, near the start of hunting season. The bill, House Bill 1539, was voted out of committee on Tuesday, and would let residents save the 7% tax on hunting supplies such as guns, ammunition, ATVs, animal feed, tree stands, and boats. Now that it has passed committee, the bill will go to a vote in the Republican-controlled House of Representatives.
 

Priest holding a shield and cross during protests in Kiev courtesy theatlantic.com

I generally keep it pretty light in the Digest, but as the rhetoric has increased over that last few months, you often find commenters talking about, and almost seeming to lust after, a revolution of sorts. My guess is that many have no idea of what they speak. This guy knows, and my guess is he’d tell you to be careful what you wish for. Meanwhile, Ukraine’s Interior Minister said police are prepared to use live ammunition, if necessary. Click the photo for more.
 

California-Dianne-Feinstein-Holster-Kydex courtesy everydaynodaysoff.com

From L.A.G. Tactical via ENDO, “This is our Dianne Feinstein rig. Its approved by CA and NY DOJ for CCW. It is extremely impractical, unnecessarily large and would leave the wearer unable to access their firearm.”

Following a carjacking at the Florida Mall in Orlando Wednesday night in which a shot was fired, my local NBC affiliate WESH had some tips on avoiding a carjacking. Among them were obvious things like “park in a well lit area,” and “check to make sure no one is hiding in or under your car,” and “have your keys in your hand,” and even “if someone is loitering around your car when you approach it, keep walking, then wait until they leave before returning.” Since I’m telling you about it, I’m sure you can guess what wasn’t anywhere on the list: any hint of preparedness to defend yourself, if necessary. Much like the active shooter cards to go on your namebadge that we highlighted yesterday, try to avoid it, but if it happens, just lie back and think of England.

Short and sweet. Jerry Miculek, GLOCK 41 (.45 ACP), and an 18×24 steel plate at 215 yards. ‘Nuff said?

 
The CZ 75 came up in conversation recently, so here’s Iraqveteran8888 with a pretty good walk around the P07 Duty model. Ryan Finn reviewed a P07 Duty for TTAG back in 2012.

At that price, I may have found my next handgun.

comments

  1. avatar AmericanSpirit says:

    I’ve pretty much only heard good things about CZs – but that trigger guard is just so damn square.

    I mean, if I had an NBC suit in the closet, sure, but low-profile (and warm) winter gloves are a thing these days.

    Good Digest, Matt. As always.

    1. avatar Ryan says:

      You only hear good things about CZ’s because they are fantastic guns. I dare say that the 75B might be one of the best guns ever made. However, I’m biased. My first pistol was a 75B.

      1. I don’t think the CZ ever need a firing pin safty. I’d take a Shadow over the ‘B’ version.

        1. avatar JAS says:

          CZ came out with a custom shop “Accu Shadow” this year. I would love to own one but as of right now they are being made from “unobtanium”. Here’s the gun:

          http://czcustom.com/cz75sp01accushadow.aspx

        2. avatar JT says:

          85 Combat would work as well. That is what I am going to go with when I get my P-01 a big brother.

      2. avatar Stinkeye says:

        You’re not biased; you’re just accurate. The CZ-75B is definitely one of the finest handguns yet devised by the human mind.

      3. avatar Jim says:

        I own two CZs, a 75B and a P07. Love them both. My only gripe is the price of factory magazines. Luckily Mec-gar makes a quality magazine for the 75. It’ll work in the P07 as well.

    2. avatar Vhyrus says:

      It’s hip to be square, man.

    3. avatar SteveInCO says:

      If that square triggerguard is really throwing you off, then look into some of the other variants of the 75, such as the B or BD. There are also compact ones. Of course these are for the most part not polymer framed.

      1. avatar AmericanSpirit says:

        Will do, and thanks for the tips.

        I’m not a huge fan of GLOCK or clones (i.e. the XD – damn squirt gun trigger safety) but after another 12ga (read as: better because the last one wasn’t worth keeping), I’m looking for my first autoloading pistol (that isn’t .22lr) and don’t want to jump head first into a 1911 platform without some real cash to spend (so I can buy a Coonan .357 – drool).

        So far a CZ is at the top of the list, and lack of a polymer frame isn’t a dealbreaker for me, and personally, the fewer safeties the better, for Murphy is not a jolly good fellow. I came into this world with two permanently attached index digit safeties, thanks.

        Plus, I like it when my guns are still useful for hitting things hard without breaking even if I’m out of ammo. /couch commando

        1. avatar tmm says:

          How did you mean “lack of a polymer frame?” While CZs have been traditionally a metal framed weapon, the P-07 and P-09 (and others I believe) are polymer offerings.

      2. avatar lolinski says:

        I think he meant that he doesn’t mind a metal frame if it has one (CZ makes both polymer and metal frames).

        I haven’t tried the compact polymer ones, how are they in comfort and pointability? I know the SP01 is good, but it might be a bit large to carry in warm areas.

        1. avatar AmericanSpirit says:

          Correct. I do not mind if it has a metal frame

    4. avatar JasonM says:

      The P-07 is a great gun, but if you’re in the market, check out the P-01 as well. It’s about the same size, has an aluminum frame, and has an identical mechanism to the CZ75 BD (the 07 uses CZ’s Omega trigger). The 01 my carry gun of choice. I made that decision primarily due to how the two guns feel in my hand.

      1. avatar JeffR says:

        I second this advice. I own a P-01 as well. The PCR is also a nice option. It is effectively the P-01 without a rail.

      2. avatar Shwiggie says:

        I second that… the CZ P-01 is my favorite pistol to shoot. It just fits my hand perfectly, and it’s more accurate than I ever really expected it to be.

  2. avatar Sixpack70 says:

    The police have been using live rounds and sniping the protesters. In the videos I have watched you can hear the bullets whizzing past the person filming. In the comments section I saw some genius say it was a good thing the protesters were unarmed or things would be much worse. Another one said that the government should have a monopoly on violence so stuff like this doesn’t happen(extreme logic in action). A lot of the other comments were about how the protesters needed guns.

    1. avatar Ryan says:

      Not sure if I should post it, but here is the video of unarmed protesters being gunned down. It’s graphic, it’s bloody, it’s disgusting. Watch at your own discretion. IMO, this is murder. If this violates some sort of posting rules, I apologize.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSvj8F_Br4M

      1. avatar Sixpack70 says:

        I watched that video earlier today. It is pretty disgusting. I’ve been on that bridge before and walked by that clock. I’ve walked all over Independance square a few years ago and it is shocking to see the what it looks like now.

        There are a few guns mixed within the crowd, but nothing like what the police have. When people think this couldn’t happen here, they are idiots. It has already happened in a few instances (LA Riots, Katrina etc) and it will happen again in the future.

        I do wonder if the Ukrainian people were armed and had their RKBA intact, if the government would have been as eager to do what they are doing now?

      2. avatar DrVino says:

        “prepared to use” is last week’s news.

    2. avatar Bernard says:

      Some of you guys may have seen this photo already.
      http://imgur.com/RIfCRyT
      Also, beating up a 991 Turbo S
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaWFMi15rvU

      1. avatar lolinski says:

        It doesn’t paint the “protesters” in a good light to smash up a car randomly. I am for protests against government, peaceful ones, not the kind where you start burning and smashing stuff causing people to shoot you.

        1. avatar Jus Bill says:

          I think it may represent just a teensy bit of pent-up frustration, yes? Is it better to beat on a car or a person?

        2. avatar lolinski says:

          I am personaly not a materialistic person, but if I saw someone smashing up a car/house/boat/whatever that I bought with my own hard earned money I would take it a bit hard (to put it mildly). It is not about money (you pay insurance afterall), it is about principle. When I see those guys smash that car up that tells me that they think it is okay to destroy peoples property simply because someone has more than they do.

          Not a violent person but 30 JSPs would probably be my solution, first ten in the air and the rest if they try to swarm me.

    3. avatar Jeff says:

      So far I’ve seen a few air guns, and even a guy that looked like he was firing shotgun shells out of a steel pipe.

  3. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

    I’m sorry I’m on the road this weekend and wasn’t able to email you Matt but a legislator in MI has recommended that CCW holders that have a PPO against an aggressor be able to carry in gun free zones. I have mixed feelings about this, it’s a step in the right direction but they should just eliminate GFZs.

  4. avatar BillF says:

    The Diane Feinstein rig–with JB Weld applied to all fasteners for added peace of mind.

  5. avatar jwm says:

    I have seen extreme chaos and anarchy. It’s nothing to wish on America. Women, children and the elderly pay the heaviest price when social order breaks down and the mad max days start.

    Some of the Walter Mitty types think that they will finally break free of the trailer park and become important people when the revolution /civil war begins. All I can tell you is remember this. Past performance is a great indicator of future performance. An underachieving schlub will still be just that when the war starts.

    1. avatar Bruce L. says:

      As a background, i’m an Eagle Scout, grew up on a small farm and am a Vietnam vet (drafted). Several weeks ago we had the water turned off in the neighborhood for about four hours. It wasn’t hell, just uncomfortable, but I got to thinking what it would be like without water, electricity and refrigerators, heat or air conditioning, etc. I think I could survive (maybe) but I know I don’t want to play in that future. Just look at the current revolts in the world. Do you really want that to be the US?

      1. avatar Gyufygy says:

        If a revolution interrupts my yearly purchase of the next CoD regurgitation, I’ll start my own damn revolution!

        [sarcasm reading: HIGH]

      2. avatar Sixpack70 says:

        I was in MA a few years ago when a big October snowstorm knocked out power and trashed everything. I luckily kept power the entire time when less than half a mile from me had no power for over a week. It made me start thinking about having an emergency stock of food and water as I was nearly 100% unprepared. Kind of a wake up call. When Sandy came through nothing really happened, but I was more prepared that time with food, water and a generator. I plan to have a well prepared setup in the future that is mobile because I move every two years or so, but can sustain me and my wife for a few weeks to a month if needed.

      3. avatar Ardent says:

        Perhaps a better question is “Do the anti-liberty forces at work in the United States want violent revolution to be our future?”

        I don’t see the POTG or other freedom minded individuals doing anything that would set off a revolution, but I see government and certain segments of the left rushing headlong toward the point where we must fight or live under tyranny. Go ask the question to the people who are the architects of the problem, don’t insult we who just wish to be left alone with questions about our motivations.

    2. avatar Hannibal says:

      I am often disturbed how some in the pro-gun movement seem to almost be hoping for a breakdown like that seen in those videos… whether because they think something great will come out of it or because they think finally they’ll be the ones with the power, I don’t know.

      I do know that the thought of that happening closer to home makes me ill.

      1. avatar Sixpack70 says:

        Yeah, I don’t get the people who are wishing for the next civil war. They just need to look at modern uprisings to see that they are not fun and end in a lot of death and bloodshed.

    3. avatar Jus Bill says:

      Something the suvivalists always forget: water. A potable water source. Hook up with a dowser (or “diviner” or “water witch” – Google-fu if you don’t know what that is) and have them walk through your area. BEFORE the next disaster.

      1. avatar KCK says:

        I hope you’re being facetious about the dowser.
        There is not one dowser every successfully finding water under controlled test conditions that was better that random luck.
        Check out “The Amazing Randy’s” web site regarding this.

        In Wisconsin, there is water under you at all times, the only question is , how deep?
        I cound be a dowser in my area with 100% success.

    4. avatar Ralph says:

      An underachieving schlub will still be just that when the war starts.

      Ulysses Grant was an underachieving schlub when the War started. Jus’ sayin’.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        He was also West Point educated and had experience as a soldier. His failures were in private business ventures. I doubt it’s a fair comparison between him and the trailer park denizens that are commenting here and wishing for war.

        I can’t picture Grant in a mullet and telling his baby momma to hand over the ebt card.

  6. avatar Nine says:

    That guy looks like he’s carrying Artorias’ Greatshield.

    1. avatar Guy From V says:

      Take that trash down to Blighttown where it belongs.

    2. avatar B says:

      You guys are good people, hope to see you online March 11. Praise the sun!

  7. avatar Delmarva Chip says:

    Doublespeak reigns again.

    Nicole, a local representative of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, said she supports State Sen. Harmon’s proposal.

    She has found that in her neighborhood, some business owners that do not want guns in their stores are hesitant to post signs indicating firearms are not welcome. Nicole said the Illinois chapter of her organization believes they should have a right to choose, and that they should not feel showing their desire would be detrimental to business.

    Let me repeat part of that:

    “believes they should have a right to choose”

    Liar.

    Prior to the passage of any law regulating the issue, they already had the right to choose whether or not they want to allow guns and whether or not they wanted to post a sign stating their choice. Mr. Harmon’s law is not only unnecessary, it is condescending and screams of paternalism by the state.

    The only thing that needs to be done to allow people to “have a right to choose” is NOT PASS ANY LAW AGAINST IT.

    There should never be any laws that mandate signs for either “guns allowed” or “no guns allowed.” Neither law is appropriate. And anyone who thinks a “gun free zone” sign actually stops a criminal from carrying a gun really needs to stop living in a fantasy land.

    1. avatar Accur81 says:

      When I saw Democrat and an inkling of pro-gun, I was immediately suspicious, but I kept an open mind. Pro-gun signs in a business could be pretty cool. Then I saw that the Democrats were actually anti-gun and hiding behind lies and yet another gun control scheme. So, business as usual. It’s not that I despise Chicago Democrats, it’s just that…oh, I despise Chicago Democrats.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        Chicago Democrats are no worse than any other Democrats. They’ve just perfected being Democrats.

    2. avatar Jus Bill says:

      Uh, they already have the right to choose. I think they’re more worried about posting a “Gun Free – Rob Me” sign in the window. The MDA harpies just CANNOT cope with that reality.

  8. avatar Mina says:

    Re: Illinois. Whatever it takes to reverse what’s already been agreed to.

    How much evidence do we need about the Liberal conspiracy?

    1. avatar JeffR says:

      This is going nowhere. Last summer’s bill was so heavily negotiated, a major component of it is not going to be changed a year later. This is a local politician pandering to his base.

      1. avatar Matt in FL says:

        That’s good to hear, I guess. I kinda had a feeling that was the case, but for me, it wasn’t just about the legislation, it was the way it was reported. I sent the reporter who authored it an email laying out exactly what was wrong and why her report was misleading, but I haven’t heard back yet.

        1. avatar JeffR says:

          He represents Oak Park which is a very liberal, near suburb that had a handgun ban during Chicago’s ban. It’s a town custom-made for MDA and MAIG. Btw, here’s my 8-year old’s reaction to seeing the no-gun sign: Hey, Dad, that gun looks like yours. Cool.

    2. avatar tdiinva says:

      This could have some unintended consequences when a large number of business post the guns welcome sign.

  9. avatar racer88 says:

    I was in Chicago last weekend for a hockey tournament. Found this sign on the entrance to one of the rinks. (Let’s see if we can embed photos here.)

    http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/racer88_bucket/Gun%20Stuff/no-guns-sign-chicago_zps7c16f536.jpg

    I don’t understand what they’ve got against Berettas. 😉

    1. avatar Delmarva Chip says:

      I guess I can’t bring my Taurus … it’s too similar-looking.

      But the Glock is ok, right? 😉

    2. avatar RKflorida says:

      So revolvers are cool? Great.

  10. avatar former water walker says:

    Illinois sucks. I live here. If I ever get legal carry I will carry wherever I wish. Pepper Blaster,knife,axe,baseball bat,etc. are within ez reach whenever I leave my humble abode. 12gauge ready at home. If you’re carrying CONCEALED

  11. avatar Maineuh says:

    “… lie back and think of England” made me laugh stuff outta my nose. In particular because I’m 7 episodes in on The History Channel’s “The Revolution” at the moment. I know how it comes out and yet it’s like a cliffhanger. Great, great series.

  12. avatar Delmarva Chip says:

    Jerry is awesome. I love watching his videos.

  13. avatar former water walker says:

    Meant to say “if you’re carrying CONCEALED conceal it”. Sent by my 15$ Virgin Mobile phone using crap a talk(lol).

  14. avatar Daily Beatings says:

    “Everything not forbidden is compulsory.” – Totalitarian Principle: Physicist Murray Gell-Mann

    What else would you expect from an Illinois politician?

    1. avatar Jus Bill says:

      And Faux News. I doubt they’ll ever put out an accurate story. I don’t think they can help it any more.

  15. avatar Curtis in IL says:

    A concealed carry law without the presumed right to carry on private property would be pretty worthless, which is exactly what the liberals in Illinois want. They only created the law because the courts forced them into it, and they’re still having a temper tantrum about it.

  16. avatar Russ Bixby says:

    Jerry Miculek is not human.

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      Jerry is very obviously a Cylon.

  17. avatar jwm says:

    Is that a priest holding that shield and cross?

    1. avatar Matt in FL says:

      It is precisely that.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        Well, phuck me, the crusades are back. Looks medieval, don’t it?

        1. avatar Theone says:

          People are dying over there. Someone posted a video that showed the protestors being shot and killed. You can see a priest there amongst the protestors while they are being shot at.

        2. avatar AmericanSpirit says:

          All I know is that if I ever end up a priest for the Greek Orthodox Church in Kiev during a few months of popularly supported chaos, I’ll be happy to emulate that guy. And if I’m not a priest and still there then I’d be busy collecting empty bottles for … constructive purposes.

          Bad. Ass.

          All Glory to the People of the Ukraine and yet another Revolution through expression of their will!

          (If you haven’t been following this stuff, now is the time to catch up. Just watch out for Soviet–er–Russian paid propaganda puppets.)

        3. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

          Shit gets medieval when society breaks down, the best saying I’ve ever about civil unrest is “we’re all no electricity and 9 meals away from getting very uncivilized.”

  18. avatar C says:

    Note pic 34. Listen, buddy. That air rifle ain’t gonna do you much good countersniping.

    1. avatar AmericanSpirit says:

      Saw that too. Thanks for confirming my suspicions so I could promptly post this. /chuckle

      It’s not the best slug thrower you can get – but don’t forget that some of the first mass-issue infantry guns were compressed air rifles.

      “Some gun is much better than none gun.”
      -Me, just now

      1. avatar Jus Bill says:

        Yep. Getting a pellet in the eye will definitely ruin your day. And close to silent with no muzzle flash – lots of pluses.

  19. avatar Samuel Leoon Suggs says:

    What I’m wondering about the Ukraine is how the hell did the manufacture so many semi-uniform silver shields and why do they think it’s such a universally great idea to have a non-bullet proof price of metal?

    1. avatar Sixpack70 says:

      Those shields were originally the ones the riot police carried. They have collected them over time. I think they are using them to create a more difficult target for the snipers. The bullets go right through and you can see some of them are really bloody in some videos. It does make it harder for a sniper to shoot you in the head, neck or heart behind the shield.

      1. avatar AmericanSpirit says:

        This.

        And also they probably helped some when the police were still using rubber bullets.

        Either way I’d rather have something between myself and incoming projectiles than nothing.

    2. avatar Backyardsniper says:

      Because those shields were mostly “liberated” from the riot police. The police use them in some very crappy emulations of the old greek phlanex and tortise fighting formations.

      1. avatar Jus Bill says:

        Which is being taught to all cash comers by the IDF, by the way.

    3. avatar Matt in FL says:

      Yeah, I thought that was interesting, as well. They look like stainless steel, so for a while I thought they were repurposed kitchen equipment, but they are very uniform, with handles and holes top and bottom so you could see through them instead of having to peek over.

      It’s not a universally great idea though. Some of those guys have plywood.

    4. avatar Lord Wulfgen says:

      The shields aren’t so much to protect you from fired projectiles, their primary purpose being to protect you from thrown projectiles and swinging blunt weapons. In a mass protest like that, falling objects will be the biggest danger. People typically break up the sidewalk and hurl chunks of concrete.

  20. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

    Wasn’t Jerry the one who hit the plate with a .38 snubby upside down with his pinky finger on the trigger at 200 yards?

    The DiFi holster should (would) be molded into the shape of a pistol with the slide locked open and a 6″ padlock through the mag-well. (For some reason I’ve got said padlocks all over the place. Most of them have heraldic eagles on them.)

    Nobody actually wants to see blood in the streets, but we do like to blow off steam from time to time. However as Thomas Jefferson said, (paraphrasing) ‘the tree of liberty is watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants.’ Eventually blood will be spilled and if it happens to occur in your lifetime it will not end well for those who aren’t prepared.

    If Mr. Harmon gets his way, guess which establishments the armed robbers will patronize.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      While I think that few of us would actually want to see open revolution in the streets of America, it is exceptionally important that the politicians are always fearful of the possibility.

      Without the Second Amendment and the credible threat of armed revolt in the face of intolerable tyranny there is nothing to prevent such a tyranny except the integrity of the elected officials – in other words, nothing.

  21. avatar Randy Drescher says:

    Yeah Chicago is not done playing & they are going to do everything possible to jail gun owners. FL tried to warn it’s 1 million holders that, yes you can have a gun, no you can’t shoot a special person with it. Chicago will be no different

  22. avatar Alex in IL says:

    I weep for liberty in my state. Can’t do much more than look at a handgun until you’re 21, machinefuns are completely illegal, and yet Chicago is still Chicago. My only consolation is that someday, the soulless ones who steal the defenses from women and children will be forced to beg forgiveness from God and the Founders.

    I apologize on behalf of my state.

    1. avatar scott says:

      This. From another citizen of the Peoples Republic of Illinois who is counting the days to being able to immigrate from this wasteland. Well put, Alex.

  23. avatar Johnny Reb says:

    Let the government bring the pain, we’ll bring the fire. I’d like to see the feds try to pull this shit on an open carry rally.

    Headline Day 1: “Hundreds of police and protestors killed in massive firefight”
    Headline Day 2: “Antigovernment “domestic terrorists” around the country storm police stations and seize government buildings”

    1. avatar Jus Bill says:

      You can go first.

  24. avatar Michael B. says:

    Who’s seemingly lusting for a revolution?

  25. avatar Skyler says:

    Pknowing Chicago machine politics, the police will ensure that businesses that want protection won’t put up the “guns allowed” signs. It’s their own way of pre-emption.

  26. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

    “a person shall not carry a concealed firearm onto private real property of any type without prior permission from the property owner.”

    I love the use of the words “shall not carry”, would that be that same “shall not” as in “shall not be infringed”…?

    You don’t care about my “shall not” then I don’t care about yours.

    1. avatar Jonathan -- Houston says:

      It reminds me of 1990’s anti-drug public service announcements, as with the “parents who use drugs, have children who use drugs” type.

      Parent confronts kid after finding kid’s stash and shouts “Answer me! WHO taught you how to do this?!” Kid, in frustration at the hypocrisy, shouts back “From YOU, all right? I learned it from watching you.”

      Governments who ignore the law, have populations who ignore the law.

  27. avatar former water walker says:

    No need to apologize Alex. Things ARE getting better. I no longer think we are the worst place in America. (top 5). Probably moving to Indiana soon but I’ll still do lots of business in Illinois. FIGHT THE POWER

  28. avatar Anonymous says:

    In regards to the Ukrainian issue,

    If police are ready to use live ammunition against protesters, then there should be no doubt in anyone’s mind that a revolution is necessary.

    1. avatar Michael B. says:

      +1

      I wish them luck.

  29. avatar Jonathan -- Houston says:

    “…you often find commenters talking about, and almost seeming to lust after, a revolution of sorts. My guess is that many have no idea of what they speak.”

    To my ear, it’s not so much the lusting, as the casualness, that I find startling. On TTAG and elsewhere, commenters bandy about words like “revolution” with the insouciance of a people whose living population has never had to endure the real thing.

    Such events are cataclysmic. Unless you’ve served in the military during actual combat, or endured a natural catastrophe and its extended aftermath, or at the very least, experienced major civil unrest such as days of rioting or a bloody coup, then you’re in for a big surprise as to what fresh Hell a revolution or civil war would visit upon modern America.

    You say you want a revolution? Well, you know…….

    1. avatar fuque says:

      I agree, and yet we cant forget that the response from Police in Europe is far different then the response we could expect from American LE… War and protest is hard wired into European DNA, and police have been equally affected by war and protests, European police/civilian relationships do not foster the same “us against them” mentality that they do here in the US..

      what we can expect is a much harsher response from police.. We are in a constant cat and mouse game with police in the US.. It’s their job to attempt to coerce, intimidate and get you to give up your rights, so they can get you prosecuted …and it’s your duty to resist and retain as much of your liberty and rights while being “processed” into the justice system.
      Cops in the US view the public as an enemy and look on them with suspicious, while police in Europe are more inclined to view the public on equal footing.. if a European protest turns the tide in favor of citizens, it’s not uncommon for police to join them…In this country, police would turn up the heat and start the wholesale slaughter of the public, because of their contempt for the public.

      Just my 02 cents worth..

      1. avatar Jonathan -- Houston says:

        Yes and no, which is to say, I’m not sure. In the beginning, it would be treated as a criminal matter, with the standard legal system prosecuting would-be revolutionaries as simple anarchists, vandals, perhaps even as rioters and/or domestic terrorists. If it gained popular backing, say, with hundreds of thousands of middle class people taking to the streets in protest each in major cities across the country, then it’s serious. Then it’s taking sides time.

        There’d be a final push by the local police to keep order, but that would fall apart as they wouldn’t be able to maintain their routine of working a shift and going home. Everything everywhere would be personal. If it got to that point, then daily life as we know it goes out the window. That’s when they try to send in military, probably starting with the national guard, to impose curfews and something approaching martial law.

        As for wholesale slaughter, we don’t even do that to our enemies overseas. We’re not going to see USAF carpet bombing of suburbia. We could see some significant clashes between loosely organized local groups and possibly even some unilateral secessions by actual states or groups claiming something for themselves; but I don’t see a full fledged Civil War II in the offing. Such would cost tens of millions of American lives and set all of us back decades.

        If got really bad, say, with thousands of lives lost, continued escalation, and lasting for more than a year with no real end in sight, then I’d expect some kind of dissolution of the Union. Perhaps creation of three to four semi-autonomous regions, something more than states, but less than nations; rather than the complete self-immolation of the U.S.

        1. avatar fuque says:

          I cant say for sure my self, my opinions are based on observation of police here, and comparing it to police actions in other western countries.. by far we are the physically harshest on our people then any other western country, we utilize force in overwhelming numbers,using physical violence to subdue people for simple offenses as normal policy.. I think if they were challenged it would be an all or nothing encounter, and i believe it would be a slaughter..Maybe not on the scale of carpet bombing..But I can see drones strikes on Us citizens in the US..

  30. avatar Caleb says:

    Hey Matt, if you were in Utah I’d offer to let you use my p-07 in .40 s&w. I love it, smooth shooting and the trigger guard is expanded to allow gloves to fit in the guard easily! (A good thing for cold utah winters.)

    E only complaint I have is the damn thing HURLS the brass away from me, and I’m a reloader, so finding it all is a challenge!

  31. avatar Logan says:

    If I recall correctly, when Governor Quinn vetoed the CCW bill, he added a veto amendment that did the exact same thing:

    “As a matter of property rights, the legal presumption should always be that a person is not allowed to carry a concealed, loaded gun onto private property unless given express permission,”

    It got shot down pretty quick when the legislature overrode his veto. This dumb senator didn’t learn.

  32. avatar Tietonian says:

    Those priests make me proud to be an Orthodox Christian.

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