Ohio National Guard Prepares for Pro-2A Terrorists

 

“‘It’s the reality of the world we live in,’ Portsmouth Police Chief Bill Raisin told WSAZ. ‘Don’t forget there is such a thing as domestic terrorism. This helps us all be prepared.'” Only the domestic terrorism Chief Raisin has in mind isn’t of the typical Nidal Hassan or Tsarnaev brother variety. Accoring to medatracker.org, the Ohio National Guard is training for a much more insidious foe: “Second Amendment supporters with ‘anti-government’ opinions…as domestic terrorists” . . .

Not that this should really surprise anyone. It’s of a piece with virtually every mass shooting or odd bombing that’s happened in the last decade. The immediate tack taken by the media, politi-hacks and even some first responders is to pin the crime on faceless gun-toting anti-guv’mint Tea-wingers. And they stick to that – hard and fast – right up until it’s inevitably shown that the perpetrator was either a psychotic anti-social basement-dwelling wack-o or a left-leaning paranoid schizo basket case.

But when called out on the assumptions behind the ONG training exercise, their communications director got all huffy:

Ohio National Guard Communications Director James Sims II suggested Media Trackers was “inferring” from the ONG document’s contents as opposed to “what’s actually in the report.”

After excerpts of the report were read to him, Sims said it was “not relevant” to understand why conservatives may feel unduly targeted by ONG’s training scenario.

“Okay, I’m gonna stop ya there. I’m going to quit this conversation,” Sims concluded. “You have a good day.”

Ah well. No matter what the reason behind an attack, the training’s still useful, right? Apparently, so is the further marginalization and demonization of American’s who choose to keep and bear arms, as is their Constitutional right. For Chief Raising’s sake – as well as that of our 2A rights in general – let’s hope he continues to be laughably off the mark.

comments

  1. avatar Philip says:

    umm, the Ohio National Guard? Do they really need any more bad press than what’s spewed in history books across the country? Time for damage control there Mr. Sims

      1. avatar rlc2 says:

        … that music still sends chills up my spine.

  2. avatar Timbo says:

    They should train to stay in their barracks.

  3. avatar Skyler says:

    I don’t think people should read so much into these things. This is probably just some battalion operations officer making up silly scenarios that they all laugh about later at the bar.

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      You are sadly mistaken. They are establishing a mindset for gun confiscation.

    2. avatar jay1975 says:

      You are exactly right. These scenarios are often written with humor in mind. The real meat and potatoes of the mission is the response to said disaster. I didn’t see anywhere where the mission was to hunt down these “domestic terrorists” or anything like that.

    3. avatar NJDevil says:

      We absolutely should be looking deeper into the meaning. This is a training exercise; you don’t think that these men will have this idea in their head afterwards that pro-Constitution members of society can be terrorists?
      Why would they not use Middle Eastern people? Oh, because that’s profiling. Hispanics? Profiling. Blacks, Asians, Jews, Mormons? Profiling. Hippie invaders (oh, sorry, OCCUPIERS)? Profiling, profiling, profiling.
      It’s “safe” to say that pro-Constitution activists would be violent because that’s the narrative that many in the government want.

      1. avatar styrgwillidar says:

        Sorry guys, they wrote it to target 2a because nobody in the chain wanted to take the heat that would have accompanied targeting any other group. Folks in the National Guard who want to get promoted are gonna be as PC as possible. Unfortunately, any other group you can think of has its defenders amongst the PC police.

        1. avatar NJDevil says:

          If it’s for training then why not just call it an undefined enemy?

        2. avatar ropingdown says:

          It is for exactly the PC reasons that the “Zombie” meme was invented. And if they think they ever might have to deal with pro-2A ‘domestic terrorists,’ they are overlooking the events they have actually had to respond to. The next time I need to create a fact-pattern, I’ll make sure to include “Ohio National Guardsmen are suspected of massive child porn involvement” and take it from there. No problem with that? Good.

      2. avatar Brandon says:

        Not to get all picky, but Mormons pretty much fit the conservative, Constitution loving, Pro-2A mold that they are training for here.

      3. avatar Jus Bill says:

        In a word: No.

        I’ve also seen scenarios that described an invasion from outer space. Calm down…

    4. avatar S. Cautela says:

      I was actually on one of those full-time National Guard CST teams that the article is referring to for four years. Usually the training scenarios involved fictional terrorist groups that didn’t have a defined ethos other than being “terrorists”, so it isn’t beyond the realm of possibility to think that some type of political indoctrination is going on here. On the larger issue of the National Guard being used to confiscate firearms from private citizens, the intricacies are a little more complex. The Soldiers would have to be called up to State Active Duty (SAD) to avoid Posse Comitatus legal issues, after which there would be some practical problems. Soldiers tend to be more politically conservative than your average civil servant and I know more than a few that would not comply with such orders. The majority of National Guardsman are M-Day or “weekend warriors” that have full-time day jobs. Regardless of the Soldier’s politics the thought of kicking in doors of private residences where they may or may not get shot by the owner may not be worth the extra $350 a month. On the other hand a member of a State Police SWAT team that makes over $100,000 a year may be more likely to follow such orders since his livelihood depends on his further employment. On the negative side, the Commanding Two-Star General (TAG) in charge of every state’s National Guard is a state employee and political appointee, not Active Duty or M-Day, and answers directly to the State Governor. Unfortunately, it is certainly possible for a TAG to order his Soldiers to confiscate firearms from private citizens out of fear of being fired by the Governor.

    5. avatar gangrenous_ghoul says:

      In the S3 shop we actually did a brainstorming session for an event like this. We never really even focused on the attacker, but the actual attacks.

      Its weird that the S2 officer would jump into the whole conservative gun nut terror attack for the situation template.

      We focused on Muslim Terror and former/current communist bloc countries.

  4. There may be a a time when people who took an Oath are going to have to decide whether or not they have any guts. Let’s hope it never comes down to that for everyone’s sake.

    1. avatar Roscoe says:

      Oath’s got nothing to do with it; they’ve been trained to put on the uniform and follow orders, period. Officers on down will follow their superiors orders without fail. When has there ever been a successful mutiny against command in recent history? Not even at Mai Lai was there a break down in command among the Americal grunts or their NCO’s or officers; they just followed orders. It took a UH1 aircrew to intercede to stop the killing of the villagers.

      These or any guardsmen or troops are going to follow the orders they are given; they’re not gonna put their neck on the line for some joe citizen they don’t know. Never happened, never will. Remember Kent State? When they’re keyed up, training and discipline kicks in; if it’s you or them going down, it’ll be you.

      1. avatar Tyler3923 says:

        We are not obligated to obey an unlawful order. Doing so would be sticking your neck out far more than telling your superiors no. I can’t say that the national guard has the guts to tell their superiors off but the real military would not be able to violate American civil liberties without mass disobedience on a unit crippling scale.

        1. avatar Erin says:

          Also, people forget that there are people in the military who aren’t grunts. There are cooks, phone technicians, hotel customer service, and a sweeping slough of those who only command others. The actual number of people both active and gaurd/reserve who would be coming to kick in your door is such a SMALL fraction of the military that it’s not feasible on any scale. Allocate more of your worry to the alphabet soup agencies and your local SWAT.

      2. avatar BTinAfghan says:

        Back in the 90’s all special operations units were given a survey asking if they could fire on US citizens if ordered. One branch stood up and walked out without answering. I never heard the results of the others. At the same time Reserve and guard units began getting members of the BATF, FBI and other agencies joining their ranks. Shortly after 9/11 most of the special agents left the reserve and guard. I never thought this was a coincidence. This is real and needs to be covered but the media are MIA as usual.

        Updated: I believe newsmax had the initial report.

      3. avatar Philip says:

        Your ignorance is showing sir (and I use that term very loosely). I can assure you as the person assigned to kick in your door me and mine aren’t doing it. There will be those who play the officers’ f*** f*** games but the vast majority of the NCO corps will have no part in that. And who do you think the private is going to follow? Some overfluffed peacocking officer or the SGT in the s*** with him? You say we don’t know you or Joe Citizen but I tell you I do know Joe because I live next door to him. So in the immortal words of a fellow soldier I will be the one saying “Hey Joe, where you going with that gun in your hand?” Not to take it from him but to join him.

      4. avatar Troutbum5 says:

        You need to talk to some guard troops. We are “citizen soldiers”. We live and work regular jobs alongside our neighbors. We drill one weekend a month and 2 weeks in the summer, and deploy along with active duty units. We will not round up our neighbors and friends, and we certainly won’t declare war and attack them. Those would clearly be illegal orders, which we are duty-bound to ignore, and in fact we would be committing a crime by following them. The average guard member is not stupid. Far from it. Like active duty troops, most of us are conservative, and most of us are gun owners. We ARE NOT going to just open fire on American citizens if ordered to do so. And I highly doubt any field-grade officer, or even a state commander, would issue or obey such an order.

        The only exception might be if a unit was called out to contain a demonstration a la Kent State. If someone fires on them, they might well fire back to defend themselves. As would anyone. That is what happened at Kent State, though it was later determined to be firecrackers set off just to get them to fire. Poor training and discipline, which was typical in the guard back then, also played a major role. That isn’t the case now; most of us have deployed to the sandbox at least once.

        On another note, My Lai was also the result of poor training and discipline. The unit that attacked the village was part of a newly formed division. Other Army divisions were asked to provide company level officers and NCOs to staff the new division with “experienced” officers. Naturally, commanders saw an opportunity to get rid of their problem children and ineffective people, which they did. So again, poor training and disciine, and incompetent leadership, were the root causes of the massacre.

    2. avatar Mike says:

      This is exactly why it is impertinent that ALL service men and women are educated in the teachings of the constitution and the process of refusing to disobey an order that violates either the constitution.

      OATHKEEPERS has the answer. Get every service person you meet involved with oathkeepers NOW while there is still time.

      Knowing they are part of a larger group of members who WILL adhere to the constitution and WILL support them might be all they need to stand up for what’s right when the choices get tough.

      They cannot be court martialed for refusing an illegal order but superiors might try find other ways to punish them. That’s where support comes in. They can petition to be transferred to a different unit or maybe even have the superior who gave the illegal order demoted or mustered out. Ideally, there would be sufficient supporters who will testify against the superior who gave the illegal order and put them in prison as an example.

      But it must start with OATHKEEPERS.

      1. avatar S. Cautela says:

        Many Soldiers and Marines know that being a member of OATHKEEPERS can jeopardize their security clearances and therefore do not join.

  5. avatar joe l says:

    a senario that american citizens are the terrorists? we dont have enough actually real terrorists? way to say half of your countrymen are terrorists. maybe your the terrorists, cause your definitly trying to instill terror in gun owners and it aint gonna work buddy

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      Everybody trains for the threat they fear the most or the most likely – why should our government be any different?

      I fear a government that fears my guns.

  6. avatar Mike Dexter's a God says:

    If it were left-wing domestic terrorists they were training for you better believe Sims would be forced to apologize.

      1. avatar William Burke says:

        You terrorist! They terrorist!! Everybody TERRORIST!!!

    1. avatar Defens says:

      I keel you now!

    2. avatar Hannibal says:

      They did… but let’s be fair, a right-wing terrorist organization would probably be a lot better armed for a military engagement of any type than the left-wing ones.

      1. avatar NJDevil says:

        Ask anyone in Central America who’s armed better.

      2. avatar Morseus says:

        Mao, Lenin, Castro/Guevara, Ho Chi Minh, the Red Brigades,and a host of other leftist, marxist/leninist leaders/groups would beg to differ.

        1. avatar Timbo says:

          OK, IN THIS country the right wingers are probably better armed than the left.

        2. avatar Ralph says:

          @Timbo, being armed isn’t the issue. Bill Ayers, Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski, the Tsarnaevs, Bobby Frank Cherry, they all had one thing in common. Most terrorists — left, right, racists and Muslims — use bombs.

        3. avatar Hannibal says:

          Yes but if you’re planning military exercises bombs aren’t really something to engage in combat against.

  7. avatar Jeremy S says:

    Oh yeah. Pro 2A = anti government. Pro constitutional rights = anti government. Both of these things = right wing extremist. Yup. Saw it in the immediate aftermath of the boston bombings http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w48NaKMu_I

    1. avatar Venator Magnus says:

      You mean that dreamy, Saudi-financed Chechen jihadist on the cover of Rolling Stone?

  8. avatar Gregolas says:

    Look NG, 98% of all terrorist attacks in the world since 1972 have been perpetrated by Islamic males between the ages of 18-50. Not your 80 year-old grandma, Not the Michigan Militia, not the girl Scouts!
    We know (and you do too) your Commander-in Chief is a Marxist-Leninist bent on doing as much damage to this country and its Constitution as possible. You’ve got to follow his orders. But have any of you got the guts to tell anybody in the chain of command how bogus this is?
    This is like Gen. Short gathering all his planes in close at Pearl Harbor to protect from sabotage. So they were all bunched up to be destroyed en masse when the Japanese came to bomb and strafe them. Wake up!

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      and 102% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

    2. avatar Daniel Silverman says:

      Don’t forget crazy women!!!
      According to a report issued by intelligence analysts in the U.S. army in 2011, “Although women make up roughly 15% of the suicide bombers within groups which utilize females, they were responsible for 65% of assassinations; 20% of women who committed a suicide attack did so with the purpose of assassinating a specific individual, compared with 4% of male attackers.”

  9. avatar peirsonb says:

    Makes me proud to take up residence in Ohio 🙁

    Waitaminute….I’m an Ohio resident AND a 2A supporter….I must be evil?

    1. avatar MarcusAurelius says:

      SLEEPER CELL!!! j/k

    2. avatar CHOtto says:

      Thank you for your admission of guilt. The NSA, DHS, ATF, and FBI appreciate your cooperation and have reserved for you an appropriate room with limited view and adaquate security measures, courtesy of the tax payers and profit prisons.

  10. avatar Ralph says:

    I doubt that this particular crock of sh1t will ever hit the proverbial fan, but if it does, remember who envisioned it. Planned for it. Wanted it.

    Hint: it isn’t us.

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      Yep.

  11. avatar JT says:

    They also did training last year where the opposition was left-wing eco-terrorists that were against fracking. They aren’t singling out one side here.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      Precisely. “ONG’s 52nd Civil Support Unit participated in a similar drill involving left-wing terrorists with Athens County first responders last year.”

      They did the lefty loons. Now they’re doing the righty loons. And the only people who should be squealing and putting on tinfoil hats are the ones that plan on mustard gassing anyone..

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        If they ever get around to unprincipled loons, Hanni, you’re in deep sh1t.

      2. avatar Steve in MD says:

        The lefty loons got an apology though.

      3. avatar Gregolas says:

        If it was in Athens, they did not want for lefty loons. Most of the denizens of OU in Athens will swear to you on Monday they just came back from Woodstock.

    2. avatar Ralph says:

      And now the Guard is planning to frack us.

    3. avatar NJDevil says:

      They also apologized for that according to the link provided by Werewolf1021 a few posts up. You think they will apologize for this?

      1. avatar DisThunder says:

        These guys are training to take out anybody, left or right, that’s deemed a threat by whomever is in charge at the moment it starts bending up the blades, and people are worried about apologies?

    4. avatar DB says:

      We don’t have a constitutionally protected right to frack, so there is THAT difference…

      1. avatar Ed says:

        Yep, my thoughts exactly. Comparing that group, to pro 2nd Amendment groups misses the point exponentially. Sadly, even the guys who should be on our side don’t understand why this is significantly different…and dangerous.

    5. avatar John in Ohio says:

      The written mea culpa said “the scenario caused distress to people who have spent countless hours striving to protect the environment and our citizens.”

      http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2013/12/14/mbrf1214-gpqq3ojo-1.html

  12. avatar PeterK says:

    That comm director quote is funny. The whole thing, haha.

    “That’s not what we said.” “Here I’ll read it to you.” “NOPE! nopenopenopenopenopenope”

    Stand up guy, that. (eye roll)

  13. avatar Ed says:

    Here’s what worries me…somewhat. I’ve always operated under the assumption that should SHTF in this manner, most of those in uniform would ditch them and stand with their fellow citizens in defiance. After reading this, and the lack of protest offered by anybody IN the National Guard about it, I’m close to scratching that thought from my consciousness for good.

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      The Praetorian Guards turning against Caesar? Not in America, my friend.

    2. avatar peirsonb says:

      I wouldn’t put too much stock in their lack of protesting a training exercise vs. what will happen in the real world scenario. Only one of those is worth losing your job over and it isn’t the fictional training exercise…

    3. avatar Hannibal says:

      Because there’s nothing to protest. They’re envisioning a situation where a bunch of nutties poison school lunches with mustard gas. ARE YOU DOING THAT?

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        I don’t know — do you go to school?

      2. avatar NJDevil says:

        Did anyone use a fertilizer bomb before OKC?

        1. avatar Daniel Silverman says:

          In 1993 the bombing of the world trade center used a similar bomb was used.

    4. avatar DB says:

      Google “Milgram Obedience Experiments”.

      1) It is human nature to “go along” 2) what if your job, livelihood and future (read pension) depended on your obedience and the economy was bad and you had no other visible means of support?

      You’re gonna obey.

      1. avatar knightofbob says:

        Milgram’s experiments are pretty roundly rejected by professionals these days. Aside from the many procedural issues, it was an experiment designed more or less to exonerate Adolf Eichmann. Modern analyses of Milgram that I’ve read tend to place him just slightly above the Stanford Prison Experiment.

        1. avatar peirsonb says:

          I’m not sure that they were designed to exonerate Eichmann so much as the million or so soldiers under him, that’s a lot of people to try in court.

          Either way, I can verify that when the Milgram experiment is taught in public high school (if it still is, we covered it when I went through) that Adolf Eichmann is never mentioned, not once. IIRC when we watched the original video it was presented, more or less, as “See? This is why it’s OK to go along.”

    5. avatar Totenglocke says:

      The military swore an oath to obey politicians, no matter what. Thinking that they would turn on their masters is a joke.

      1. avatar BillC says:

        No they didn’t. The oath was for the Constitution and to follow the lawful orders given to them. It’s the leadership, civilian or otherwise, that is breaking that chain of following the Constitution. I was army, served with many kinds of people, and safe to say I would bet that when push came to shove that they would not turn against you or I if it comes to confiscation. are there dickhole leaders in the military that hate you and your evil black rifle, yes. They are the loud, but small minority.

        1. avatar Totenglocke says:

          You can claim whatever you want, but their undying loyalty is to whoever sits upon the throne. The words of the oath mean nothing, the meaning of it is 100% unwavering devotion to the politicians that piss on the Constitution every day.

          You claim that the meat shields would disobey their orders to murder us for standing up for our rights, yet you know as well as everyone else here that when it comes down to “murder these people or we kill you and your family”, every one of those cowards would shoot us in our sleep.

        2. avatar peirsonb says:

          O makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep

        3. avatar jwm says:

          If I have a choice in trusting the men I served with to help Americans, or the happy little internet commadoes like Totenglocke and Chris Mallory, guess who I’m going to side with.

          How about you TTAG’ers? Who do you have faith in, the military comprised of your brothers and sisters, sons and daughters or guys like Tote who rattles his sabre but always wants someone else to fight the fight.

          Or Chris Mallory who would happily take constitutional rights from people simply based on their jobs?

        4. avatar Totenglocke says:

          @ JWM

          Typical military worshiper. You have to rely on lies to promote your agenda of why we must submit to the thugs who swore an oath to do whatever they are told by whoever sits upon the throne. I’ll gladly fight and die to defend freedom, unlike those cowardly murderers that you praise who rape and murder innocent people every day.

        5. avatar DBM says:

          Tot,
          Something south of idiot comes to mind about you after reading your post. You’re clueless about who serves in the military and why.

        6. avatar jwm says:

          Tote, which of us is lying? When have you seen an American soldier rape or murder? You talk about fighting and dying for freedom. That’s hollow talk for a non hacker. When the fighting and dying begins, where will you be? Where have you been, what have you done? Do you contribute money to 2a causes? Membership in any groups that support our rights?

          I stand by my statement. If freedom is to be insured in this country it won’t be by guys like you and Chris Mallory.

          And before you get all hysterical and point out My Lai or some such, yes crimes happen in war. Do we condemn all gun owners because of Adam Lanza or the Joker?

        7. avatar Totenglocke says:

          @JWM

          Oh, that’s right – if I don’t get paid to murder people who pose no threat to us, I don’t value freedom.

          You’re proving exactly why we’ll eventually lose all of our rights – because too many gun owners worship the government thugs who are paid to take away our rights. Honestly, I’d enjoy a fight – I’d love to put down the cowardly murders that you worship and kneel before. Even street thugs are more honorable and brave than government thugs.

          “Do you contribute money to 2a causes? Membership in any groups that support our rights?”

          Multiple groups, just not the NRA since they backed the incredibly anti-gun Mitt Romney. The NRA doesn’t give a rats ass about our rights, they only care about getting Republicans elected. If they ever decide to support our rights over a political party, then I’ll donate to them again.

          “I stand by my statement. If freedom is to be insured in this country it won’t be by guys like you and Chris Mallory.”

          Question then – if there’s a civil war, who do you think we’d be fighting against? Imaginary Imperial Stormtroopers? No. The very police and military scum that you worship. As I talked about on here a couple of months ago, I’ve spent large amounts of time on military bases recently and talked to both officers and regular enlisted – both of which talked (with huge grins on their faces) about how they’d kill anyone who dare to stand up to the government. The whole “government thugs are the good guys!” propaganda is just that – propaganda to get you to be a good little boy and obey the government thugs and not stand up to them. Seriously, you’re an adult – use some basic reasoning skills and look at their ACTIONS, not what the recruiting posters say.

          “Do we condemn all gun owners because of Adam Lanza or the Joker?”

          First off, mass murderers (of the non-government employed sort) are the exception, not the rule. The exact opposite is true of our paid murderers. Secondly, when they’re alive, mass murderers (again, of the non-government employed sort) are arrested and either sentenced to life in prison or executed. When soldiers or police officers commit acts of rape and murder, people like you hand them medals and tell them “Good job! Go do it again!” and then you make up lies about how they deserved it for being black / arab / non-christian / etc.

          Also, I’d love to know where this myth that police / soldiers are “brave” comes from – they virtually never enter a combat situation unless they have overwhelming force (usually 4-5 police / soldiers for each person they are fighting). There’s nothing brave about a dozen men executing one person – that’s a cowardly move. Don’t bother saying it “Well what are they supposed to do, risk getting shot in a fair fight?!” Regardless of the effectiveness of the tactic, it doesn’t make them brave. That’s like saying a dozen high school students beating up a 10 year old are “brave”.

        8. avatar DBM says:

          “soldiers are “brave” comes from – they virtually never enter a combat situation unless they have overwhelming force (usually 4-5 police / soldiers for each person they are fighting).”

          You really aren’t very smart are you. Either that or youre disappointed that you didn’t get an anal body cavity search like you wanted.

          There is a difference between Bravery and Stupidity. You never engage a superior force unless its a hit and run. Otherwise you’re committing suicide (stupidity). Even with an overwhelming force enough bullets are going to come at you there is a good chance of being killed but you do it anyway (bravery). You attack an entrenched enemy with a 3x more soldiers and there is still a good chance youre not going to succeed. As far as cops go how much is enough to pay a guy to get his ass kicked every day? So do you go with enough people to intimidate people into not being confrontational or to subdue the perp. Read any stories about cops having to take on people using PCP or Bath Salts? Sometimes a 8 cops isn’t enough. I’ve personally been in a fight with a guy who had smoked PCP. Worse ass whipping I and the other 5 guys I was with ever took. I was the smallest at 5’10” 200 lbs and the guy that did it was 5’3″ 130lbs. A single cop would have had to shoot him multiple times.

          Get out of your basement and look at the sun and get a tan. Get a life so you actually know what youre talking about. BTW I’ve been to the Middle East Many times. Innocent people die in all wars but there has never been a country in the history of the world that has gone as far as we have to avoid killing non combatents.

        9. avatar DBM says:

          “soldiers are “brave” comes from – they virtually never enter a combat situation unless they have overwhelming force (usually 4-5 police / soldiers for each person they are fighting).”

          You really aren’t very smart are you. Either that or youre disappointed that you didn’t get an anal body cavity search like you wanted.

          There is a difference between Bravery and Stupidity. You never engage a superior force unless its a hit and run. Otherwise you’re committing suicide (stupidity). Even with an overwhelming force enough bullets are going to come at you there is a good chance of being killed but you do it anyway (bravery). You attack an entrenched enemy with a 3x more soldiers and there is still a good chance youre not going to succeed. As far as cops go how much is enough to pay a guy to get his ass kicked every day? So do you go with enough people to intimidate people into not being confrontational or to subdue the perp. Read any stories about cops having to take on people using PCP or Bath Salts? Sometimes a 8 cops isn’t enough. I’ve personally been in a fight with a guy who had smoked PCP. Worse ass whipping I and the other 5 guys I was with ever took. I was the smallest at 5’10” 200 lbs and the guy that did it was 5’3″ 130lbs. A single cop would have had to shoot him multiple times.

          Get out of your basement and look at the sun and get a tan. Get a life so you actually know what youre talking about. BTW I’ve been to the Middle East Many times. Innocent people die in all wars but there has never been a country in the history of the world that has gone as far as we have to avoid killing non combatants.

        10. avatar jwm says:

          First, Tote, there won’t be a civil war. And I don’t believe for a moment soldiers told you, not a member of their group, with smiles on their faces no less, that they would kill anyone that stood up to the government.

          What I think is closer to the truth is that your hatred has twisted you to the point that lying isn’t a problem for you. What happened? Did a cop give you a ticket? Did the recruiters reject you as unfit?

          And if fighting in a war is your definition of murder, well what else can I say? Just remember, all those murders were done in your name. You, the American citizen. If that bothers you, time to take your own advice. Pack and move.

        11. avatar Totenglocke says:

          And as usual, JWM, not a single fact was given. All you do is worship the government and their thugs and insult anyone who dares to actually support freedom and the Constitution. I wish I could be there the day you get a SWAT team smashing down your door or dragged out of your home by your precious cowardly murderers – though then again, you’d probably still be saluting the flag and shouting “SEIG HEIL! LONG LIVE THE EMPEROR!”

    6. avatar MD says:

      Here’s what worries me…somewhat. I’ve always operated under the assumption that should SHTF in this manner, most of those in uniform would ditch them and stand with their fellow citizens in defiance. After reading this, and the lack of protest offered by anybody IN the National Guard about it, I’m close to scratching that thought from my consciousness for good”

      Ed – I’m guessing you’ve never been in the military? Speaking as a former Marine, one of the key things the military instills is obedience. As other posters have stated, there are very few people in uniform who will disobey an order, even it if is an unlawful order or unconstitutional.

      1. avatar BTinAfghan says:

        I do not think many would blindly follow an unlawful order. I know most men and women I have served with would absolutely not obey an unlawful order. Most of the people in the military tend to be more conservative than the general public. As you get up into the flag ranks you get to political a$$ kissing but the general feel among the troops would refuse to attack US citizens. The key is to continue to educate them on the constitution.

        1. avatar Totenglocke says:

          “I do not think many would blindly follow an unlawful order.”

          Except for the fact that they’ve done almost nothing but for SEVENTY YEARS. But you know, that totally didn’t happen… Your world where history doesn’t exist must be quite interesting.

      2. avatar A-Rod says:

        ‘I was just following order’ has been heard before.

        1. avatar DBM says:

          As a former active duty Army Officer I can tell you that following an illegal order or an incompetent one is no excuse. Unfortunately to many of our current crop of young officers don’t have the backbone to refuse to follow these orders. I refused to follow illegal and incompetent orders many times in the 10 years I was active duty and have no regrets.

      3. avatar Troutbum5 says:

        It’s a training exercise. As had already been said, nobody is going to raise hell and lose their job. And I seriously doubt they were told it was to squash a pro-2A demonstration. If the picture is accurate, it’s a CERFP unit, trained to respond to a WMD attack or other disaster, to supplement local disaster response assets. There is an extraction team (which is who you see in the picture), a decontamination team, and a medical team. They don’t carry weapons. I know because I was on a CERFP team until recently. Civil disturbances were not part of our training.

      4. avatar Rich Grise says:

        Somebody else mentioned the phenomenon that there probably aren’t many who would risk the wrath of their CO by protesting over a training exercise.

        1. avatar DBM says:

          Rich you may not believe this but I risked the wraith of higher ranking officers on a regular basis. Once got to talk to the 5th Corps Commander for calling one of his Col’s the stupidest MF I’d ever met about 5 times because he was a dumbass. I survived the Col didn’t. One man can make a difference.

    7. avatar Dr. Kenneth Noisewater says:

      Indeed, what I would like to read is a story about a training exercise where the folks giving those orders were duly relieved of command and held prisoner by their subordinates.

  14. avatar Bob Wall says:

    Ohio National Guard – Who can’t forget…

    “Ohio” – CSNY

    http://youtu.be/GI7-m919ynU

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      That was just a bunch of panicky Guardsmen firing wildly. I’m sure they’ll be much more poised and accurate next time.

      1. avatar fuque says:

        no,they are probably old and retired… the new Guard probably went home after training and jumped online to their favorite gun and 2A websites…..

        1. avatar BillC says:

          And that’s the funny thing, the military is primarily composed of the kind of people who read this kind of website. About 3/4s of my old unit are gun owners and love the shit out of the Constitution. The rest either think that guns are just too much for is lowly civilians and truely don’t understand the 2A and thus, the Constitution they swore to obey and defend.

  15. avatar USMCVeteran says:

    The only “domestic terrorists” I’ve seen in recent history are in government.

    1. avatar fuque says:

      ..And those are the ones that any of us have to worry about.. Them and the police that are their henchmen.

    2. avatar Totenglocke says:

      Especially the ones who wear uniforms and carry guns, they are the worst domestic terrorists of them all.

  16. avatar NJDevil says:

    If the naming of the enemy in these training exercises is irrelevant, as they claim, then why not use something fictional? You can call it Cobra, so all the guys can live out their GI Joe fantasies, or Umbrella Corporation so everyone can get in on the zombie fad. Or if you want the Bond theme about about SPECTRE, or even KAOS is you want to be a bit less serious?

  17. avatar lolinski says:

    Isn’t it a stupid move to demonize a third of the population of a country? Closer to half when I think about it (isn’t one third children?).

  18. avatar Sam Spade says:

    Don’t forget that Timothy McVeigh-the constitutional scholar–was exactly the kind of person that hangs out at sites like “Western Rifle Shooters Association” (which may or may not be run by the ATF). Whether this made him right-wing, or not, I cannot say.

    Blowing up people doesn’t seem be “right” to me.

    1. avatar BillC says:

      Blowing people up is neither right wing or left wing.

    2. avatar Rich Grise says:

      Just to throw a monkey wrench into the McVeigh thing, the way I understand it, he had no idea there were going to be people in the building at that time of the morning; he only wanted to damage the building as a statement against the IRS abuses, so, in a way he was a Freedom Fighter. I heard that when he found out about the kids, he broke down and was deeply remorseful; he had never intended to kill any people.

      1. avatar BTinAfghan says:

        Read the book “THE THIRD TERRORIST” by Jenna Davis. She is an investigative reporter who investigated the Oaklahoma City bombing. The Government tried several times to shut her down. She refuesed and everytime it went to court the government backed down, her information was right and she could prove it. McVeigh and the others had connection to Abu Sayef Group in the Philipines. ASG is also tied in the AQ.

      2. avatar Adub says:

        Wasn’t McVeigh claiming to avenge Waco, where, let’s be honest, those people really were burned to the ground?

        1. avatar Rich Grise says:

          I hadn’t heard that claim, but I’m not inclined to dismiss it out of hand. One of the little voices in my head is saying, “Well, if it wasn’t, it should have been.”

        2. avatar peirsonb says:

          Roscoe Lee Browne?

  19. avatar Venator Magnus says:

    Why don’t they train for the 100,000 Saudi Wahabi Islamists that have been streamlined through DHS and allowed to come here on student visas over the past three years, thanks to a massive Obama-pushed expansion of the King Abdullah Scholarship.

    I can tell you right now, THAT is the biggest internal “domestic” threat to the security of the United States that no MSM outlet will touch.

    1. avatar Michael B. says:

      They could train to handle situations like the mall terrorist attack that happened recently in Africa, or the theater attack in Russia, or any number of more realistic things but instead they choose to develop a scenario in which some right-winger puts mustard gas on sandwiches.

      That makes no ****ing sense.

  20. avatar Tommy Knocker says:

    Ohio National Guard base in Port Clinton OH (Camp Perry) is host facility for the CMP HQ and Nationals for over 100 years. Ouch…

  21. avatar Ardent says:

    Portsmouth is only about half an hour down river from here and relatively small. It’s a pro gun town in the middle of a pro gun county. I’m relatively sure that the police chief isn’t anti 2a. I’d say this is exactly what others have explained; the NG makes up a scenario for training, not targeting anyone, just randomly picking some ‘group’ to play the OPFOR. They’ve done all sorts of left wing groups as ‘terrorists’ in such training as well. This is a non-issue.

    1. avatar Paul G. says:

      Ok, glad you are cool with that. Next time they should be sure to be taking on hisanic/latino illegal immigrants angered over immigration policy. Nobody should mind that.
      After that, they can use angered LGBT activists.

    2. avatar Totenglocke says:

      Tell me it’s a non-issue when they smash through your windows at 2AM and point guns at you and your family.

      1. avatar Ardent says:

        Toten, the guys doing the training amount to my neighbors and cousins. I get the feeling when they ‘smash through my windows’ and I ask what gives they apologize sheepishly and ask if I’ve got a cold one. These aren’t the faceless feds, they’re normal everyday guys who play soldier one weekend a month. You can put away the tin foil on this one, it’s not a conspiracy, a stupid choice of training scenario, but not a conspiracy.

        On another note, the former commander of the unit is question is a long time friend of mine. We shoot together frequently and he is an ardent 2a supporter as are the vast majority of the men in the unit. I’m telling you there is nothing to see here, please don’t further demonstrate your disconnect from reality by telling me about what goes on in my town.

        1. avatar DBM says:

          All it would take is a major terrorist attack and its surprising how people will change.

  22. avatar Joey S says:

    I think this training opportunity was blown way out of proportion. Typically when the guard trains, they come up with random training topics. It could be a recon mission in a third world country, providing assistance during inclement weather situations, or a craptastic mission like this. The idea behind it is to keep members flexible and to be able to respond effectively to a large variety of situations.

    That being said, the vast majority of guard members lean to the right and greatly support 2A. Unfortunately there are domestic groups that aren’t exactly the nicest to deal with – particularly ‘sovereign citizens’, and this type of training gives members of the guard an opportunity to train and function in a realistic environment (their own back yards so to speak).

    Anyhow, just my $0.02’s worth.

  23. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    Let’s look at the bright side here. This is an opportunity for the actual members of the Ohio National Guard to take stock and decide where they stand on the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution — that document to which they took an oath to uphold and defend.

  24. avatar Michael B. says:

    These idiots are aware mustard gas looks nothing like actual mustard you put on school lunch sandwiches, right?

  25. avatar ChuckN says:

    We need to know whether this exercise was dreamt up at the
    local level or ordered from on high. If scenarios like this are
    being thought up and ordered by politicians or the upper
    echelon of military commanders, I think we would have cause
    to be worried. If at the local level I’d suspect that it’s nothing
    more than a random scenario with labels meant to appease
    the PC police. (Though in my view this would paint the NG
    in a bad light as it says no one has the guts to stand up to
    the PC lunatics.)

  26. avatar Randy Drescher says:

    Keep training chief, I promise everyone will line up just like the British.

  27. avatar Dave says:

    Another reason why I would rather the Texas National Guard over any other. TNG isn’t targeting Pro-2a citizens as terrorists. Appears that most of these pro-liberal states are so far lost to reason that the best thing for our country is either then mass purge of the lunatic fringe or the formation of a new, more responsible country, amid the ashes of the old one.

    Old America has been killed off by the worthless, lazy, indifferent, compassionateless sheep of intolerence, hate, and bullying.

  28. avatar murray says:

    In country anti terrorist or counter insurgency activity is very complex and difficult for regular soldiers (especially amateurs such as these) as they must be intelligence lead and precisely targeted, usually done in small highly trained mission specific teams to avoid collateral tax payer/citizen damage (Bin Laden is a good example). Small scale citizen terrorist operations are especially challenging in a western Democracy, especially with modern IT/telecoms. If Citizens attack Infrastructure rather than engage with National Guard/Police they would most certainly bring down the Government as Infrastructure cant all be protected, no matter how ruthless you are or what fire power you apply (see 22 SS Panzer divivsion France 1944). Government at war with large number of the people is on a loser, as evidenced by the many criminal gangs roaming your cities.

  29. avatar Rich Grise says:

    Gack! “American’s????

    There is no apostrophe in the plural of “American.” One American, two or more Americans.

  30. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

    So for all the anti-gunners who contend that the National Guard is the direct descendant of militias, whose purpose was to embody and defend the Second Amendment and all that that implies, it must come as an appalling and unacceptable surprise to see a National Guard unit training to suppress violently whatever actions by Second Amendment supporters might be deemed “domestic terrorism” by those who oppose the Second Amendment. Or not.

  31. avatar JLR84 says:

    Obviously not all 2A advocates or right-wingers are potentially violent extremists, but some are, and I don’t see the big deal acknowledging that. It’s not like Oklahoma City never happened.

    1. avatar Jonathan -- Houston says:

      Sooooo Timothy McVeigh was pro-school choice, pro-states’ rights, and generally in favor of lower taxes and less governmental regulation? Because those are typical right wing positions.

      Oh? He wasn’t? He was just another anarchist, but with a crew cut and a lot of fertilizer? Well.

      You’re attaching a “right wing” label on McVeigh the same way liberals slap one on the national SOCIALIST Hitler: they just need any old random monster to wrap up in “right wing” ribbons so as to balance out history’s scales of hate and violence so heavily weighed down by leftist killers from Stalin to Mao to Pol Pot to the Unabomber to the Boston Marathon Bombers to pretty much all of the headline grabbing spree killers of the last 20 years or so. Epic fail.

      1. avatar Rich Grise says:

        The wings don’t matter. They’re smoke and mirrors to distract/misdirect us from the fact that they’re both working for Evil.

        God’s Will is Free Will. The evil ones simply want all traces of Freedom removed from the world, starting with the Individual Will, which the Constitution was designed/intended to protect.

        1. avatar John in Ohio says:

          Amen, Brother Grise!

  32. avatar ensitue says:

    1970->2014= 35 years? Must be collage edumacated!

    1. avatar Rich Grise says:

      Did he carry 1 backwards?

    2. avatar Delmarva Chip says:

      If you’re talking about the first video posted in the comments … you could look at the actual Youtube page and see that it was uploaded in 2006 (and it said 36 years ago).

  33. avatar Phil says:

    Nothing new, the military had an unannounced training exercise in south Houston last year where they flew in attack helicopters and fast-roped down transports in suburban neighborhoods, weapons drawn, coordinated movements, full gear, blocking off roads, stay in your house, heavy equipment, etc. urban training. There were reports of shots being fired, or at least the sounds of gunfire. The government tells the military to prepare for the enemy. With increased domestic surveillance programs and the law enforcement build it, it seems like they think something big is coming. God help us if those who serve ignore their conscience and betray the ACTUAL people. Scary.

  34. avatar bob says:

    if ohio was joking they would have said moms against guns terrorist

  35. avatar DBM says:

    Ohio National Guard Communications Director James Sims II suggested Media Trackers was “inferring” from the ONG document’s contents as opposed to “what’s actually in the report.”

    Just another balless wonder. The idiot is oblivious to the fact that Obama and crew have declared everyone who has ever served in the military domestic terrorist threats. The real purpose behind this is to tell people who actually believe in the Constitution that when the time is right they are coming after you, Like the purges Stalin had regularly. Lots of similarities between Obama and stalin so I wouldnt put it past him,

    1. avatar Rich Grise says:

      Obama <=> Stalin
      Obama <=> Hitler
      Obama <=> Mao
      Obama <=> Bush
      Obama <=> Satan

      They’re all cut from the same cloth.

  36. avatar Dave s says:

    Kent State: push scared folks against a fence where they cannot escape and bad things happen.

    Domestic Terrorist: would that apply to a uniformed force in combat with other uniformed forces?

    1. avatar Rich Grise says:

      I fear that a “Domestic Terrorist” is whoever Our Glorious Beloved Infallible Leader says is one.

  37. avatar Adub says:

    I like how they think that 2A supporters (who more likely than not have kids and go to church) are going to poison kids to get back at the government. Maybe they should train to defend the governor’s mansion from a ground assault of welfare recipients. That’s way more likely.

    1. avatar Grumpy in Kali says:

      Didn’t seem to stop Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols…..Eric Rudolph probably didn’t feel for them either.

    2. avatar Rich Grise says:

      “Maybe they should train to defend the governor’s mansion from a ground assault of welfare recipients. That’s way more likely.”

      I have no doubt that they’ve already got that covered, in spades. And it’ll be awhile before the riots reach the mansion, they’ll be looting their local stores first.

  38. avatar SpecialK says:

    Any suggestions on what a displeased Ohioan such as myself can do about this situation (legally)? I suppose ultimately the Guard answers to the Governor, but is there any other action we can take? Blown out of proportion or not, this portrayal of our belief system is insidious and demeaning and should be called out for the prejudiced fear-mongering crap that it is.

    1. avatar Totenglocke says:

      Elect a Libertarian Governor and then petition him to disband the terrorist organization known as the Ohio National Guard?

    2. avatar Rich Grise says:

      Call an ambulance-chaser and sue the barstids!
      Mental Cruelty, Discrimination, Traumatic Stress, …

  39. avatar Skeptical_Realist says:

    Everyone here is over-reacting. As an individual heavily involved in emergency planning for the largest US Air Force Base in an Asian country, we do two to four emergency management exercises per year. We’ve done active shooter, dirty bomb, insider threat, etc. In many instances the simulated perpetrator was a disgruntled or disturbed service member. For the Active Shooter scenarios, the role player with the gun pretty much has to be a military cop, because they are the only ones with viable access to firearms and ammo.

    The scenario is frankly not important, and is often preposterous. The point of the scenario is the training involved in the respose to the threat, command and control, and casualty processing.

  40. avatar cubby123 says:

    Pro 2A terrorists as opposed to anti 2A Treasonists! OK now I get it!

    1. avatar Rich Grise says:

      What’s the frog pot up to now? 211.99999?

  41. avatar Delmarva Chip says:

    Given all of the groups that might commit “domestic terrorism” … second amendment supporters seem to be one of the LEAST likely of all to kill innocent civilians. Environmental terrorists or pro-socialist terrorists seem far more likely to kill innocents, since they seem to place little value on the life of an individual.

    I like the idea that had been suggested above – use a fictional terrorist group as the enemy.

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