Daily Digest: Actual Hunter Edition

Arms haul in India courtesy ibnlive.in.com

The Indian army recovered 40+ weapons and a whole pile of ammunition a few days back in a place most of you have never heard of. It doesn’t really matter. Just look at that artistic layout. Our cops are really behind the times with their “toss it on the table” photo ops. . .

A clerk at a Seattle convenience store was ringing up a customer when two men entered the store wearing masks. One approached the counter and demanded money, pulling a gun. The clerk thought the gun “didn’t look real,” so he told the guy, “I have a bigger one than you do.” When he turned to reach for his own gun, the robbers took off out the door, hopped in their vehicle, and hauled ass. Many people would say the clerk acted stupidly, but he kept the money in the register, and doesn’t have any new holes, so I figure it worked out alright.

Our friends over at Wonkette waved the bloody shirt a little bit just after Christmas, recounting the stories of a couple-three accidental shootings that have been covered here and elsewhere. But the interesting part to me was the story contained a photo of “Dad with his new gun” from Christmas morning, and the author opined that “We don’t really begrudge Dad his rifle up there — looks like an actual hunter, at least.” I know for a fact that myself, Nick, and Dan have all hunted, and none of us looks like the guy in that photo. So my question is, what does an “actual hunter” look like?

Following the recent appeals court ruling that the University of North Florida cannot prohibit the storage of firearms in vehicles on campus, the rest of the schools in the state seem to be falling in line like dominoes. USF and FSU have already formally rewritten their policies, and though UF hasn’t said anything publicly, their language was identical to FSU’s, so it’s likely only a matter of time. It’s a small step, but it’s a step forward.

Apparently there’s some confusion about the new gun laws in California, and when the different measures take effect. The one causing the most confusion seems to be the law that bans lead ammunition for hunting, which doesn’t take effect until 2019. A ban on the sale of magazines holding greater than 10 rounds passed and took effect on January 1, but an accompanying bill banning the possession of those same bills did not pass, so owning them is still legal. Magazine conversion kits, a popular workaround for the mag limits, are also banned as of the first of January. Don’t you just love “insta-criminal” laws? Can anyone name another consumer item for which you have to be continuously aware of its legality for potentially years after you purchase it?

The boys over at Moss Pawn & Gun are here with their latest Gun Gripe videos, and this one is about dry firing. When it’s OK, when it’s not OK, when to ask permission… It’s a little on the long side for what I normally post here, but it seems to have some good information. Got anything they didn’t cover?

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comments

  1. avatar Samuel Suggs says:

    By “toss it on the table” I assume you mean “take the scary ones out of the locked room and then put the prize of the collection on some kind of stand or in the hands of a liberal politician so it can be its photogenic self for the medias cameras (usually an AK variant or something ridiculous like a grenade launcher Ooo’ +10 for each pineappllly lookin grenade you can put on that table)

    1. avatar Samuel Suggs says:

      Even if said grenades are inert

    2. avatar Patrick says:

      The design on the table was to be called “starry night” until someone got bored and just lined them up in rows.

  2. avatar CGinTX says:

    Car Seats 😎

    1. avatar Matt in FL says:

      I don’t get the reference.

      1. avatar peirsonb says:

        I’m pretty sure the requirements vary slightly by state, but Michigan states that a child must be in a car seat until they reach a certain height or turn 8 years old. Within that time frame there are other requirements for the type of seat and its location in the vehicle. A “standard” car seat (the type that is basically a basket with a handle) has it’s own height, weight, and age limits (ah, serial commas 🙂 ). Then, even after 8, I’m pretty sure Michigan has yet another requirement that they be in a booster until another arbitrary age/height. Luckily I don’t have to care, my wife nerded out and studied the law when our daughter was born 🙂

        1. avatar Nigil says:

          Do they throw you in jail for having the wrong seat, or write you a ticket? There’s a difference between regulation which results in civil fines and laws which make you a felon.
          Not to mention that simply possessing a 15-year old car seat in your basement somewhere that your forgot existed will never, ever land you in jail.

      2. avatar CGinTX says:

        piersonb gave a great example from one state’s perspective, but yep, my very very short response was in answer to the question in the post: “Can anyone name another consumer item for which you have to be continuously aware of its legality for potentially years after you purchase it?”

        1. avatar Matt in FL says:

          Oh. OH. Now I get it. But as Nigil points out, it’s still not exactly the same.

  3. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    Should we tell the folks at wonkette that the older fella is holding a pellet gun?
    Nah….

    1. avatar Foster says:

      It was mentioned but those morons don’t care. One idiot think it’s an AR.

      When I read crap like that all I can do is shake my head in disbelief that the antis are so uneducated and stupid. they have zero idea how big the sporting firearms demographic is.

      No references to the made up stats and nothing but hate for apposing viewpoints.

      1. avatar crashbbear says:

        One guy says the NYPD hit their target 1 in 7 times, so obviously “normal gun owners” must think we have magic bullets, what with NYPD’s superior training.

        No. We go to the range more than twice a year, get to take our guns home for additional dry practice, and don’t have 12# triggers.

        This kind of stupidity infuriates me… but hey, at least they have dumb down to a science. Now we just have to figure out a mass marketed cure for it.

        1. avatar Jus Bill says:

          Unfortunately they’re just smart enough to spawn. Perpetuates the dumb.

    2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      What do you mean a “pellet gun”? That’s an ultra high velocity supersonic silenced 4.49mm cannon!

      1. avatar peirsonb says:

        And, unfortunately, legally a firearm in many places….

  4. avatar Ing says:

    A pawnshop owner running on for 14+ minutes about dry-firing peeves? Hmmm… Maybe he should see a doctor for that.

    1. avatar Matt in FL says:

      Ew.

      For the record, he’s not actually griping for the whole video. They talk about which guns are OK to dry fire and which may not be.

      1. avatar Ing says:

        Ah. That makes sense, then. 🙂

      2. avatar Roscoe says:

        Thanks for the video, Matt. I learned something useful stuff.

        I’ve always believed in relieving the cocked weapon gradually, if possible. Less wear and tear.

    1. avatar Gyufygy says:

      Note to self: only cast magic missile at the darkness among approved company.

  5. avatar CA.Ben says:

    “Actual hunter:”

    A registered democrat with a hunting license and double barrel 12 gauge, shooting ducks with nontoxic shot.

    1. avatar Nine says:

      Getting generous with letting them have two barrels.

      1. avatar Jus Bill says:

        Uncle Joe endorsed…

      2. avatar int19h says:

        Can’t seem hit with just one of them, sorry.

  6. avatar Sam Spade says:

    A real hunter looks like this.

    1. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

      I’ve heard he was a hunter of both men and animals.

    2. avatar Stinkeye says:

      Dude looks more like a crazy cat lady.

  7. avatar ropingdown says:

    Dry Firing: How can we leave double guns uncocked? They cock when we disassemble them for return to their cases. I haven’t had a problem with that and some of the guns have been stored that way and frequently used since my grandfather’s day. Often they are stored assembled but very often not.

    I’ve never known a center fire bolt-action rifle to have any problem with fairly unlimited dry firing. Most hunting experts recommend dry fire snap-shooting frequently. I also don’t believe dry-firing an AR is a problem. Am I wrong on this?

    1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

      IMHO, no. You’re not wrong.
      Although I don’t own any double rifles (yet). I’ve been dry firing my ar and bolt guns for better than 20 years.
      No problems yet.

      1. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

        Dry fire damage is extremely over exaggerated, a few stories over the years launched into a bunch of nonsense that took on a life of its own.

        Like the 45 acp death-ray stories…

    2. avatar Jim R says:

      I have a simple solution to this problem–just ask “Do you mind if I pull the trigger?”

      The first gun I ever bought, a S&W revolver in .38 Special, I went to the gun shop (John Brown’s Armory in Rochester, PA) and as I was looking at the gun, down the sights (pointing at the floor, away from everyone, after I’d been shown how to open the cylinder and check the weapon properly) the sales clerk told me “Did you try the trigger?” I said no, that I’d heard dry-firing could damage the gun. He said once or twice wouldn’t hurt it so go ahead.

      Very nice people there. I’d highly recommend them to anyone. They were very polite and extremely helpful.

    3. avatar Matt in FL says:

      Remington specifically says that dry-firing my 700 won’t hurt it.

      My XDm says you can dry-fire it within reason. I’ve heard that eventually it can bend the firing pin retaining roll pin, but it would likely take hundreds if not thousands of cycles (and roll pins are cheap to replace).

      My SIG Mosquito says to not dry-fire under any circumstances.

      1. avatar Mark N. says:

        Rimfires are dry fire no nos, unless you use a snap cap. The firing mechanism is a rectangular piece of metal that strikes the edge of the cartridge, and without a cartridge, it will dent the rim of the chamber, so I’ve been told.

        1. avatar Benny says:

          Ruger says it is okay to dry fire their rimfires. Or at least the ones I have said that in the manual.

      2. avatar Benny says:

        Somebody who may have… ummm… looked like me, dry fired his XDm until he shattered the firing pin retaining roll pin. Dunno how many hundred(s) of times. Also snapped the hammer of my LCP in half by dry firing.

        1. avatar TTACer says:

          That is pretty interesting. I am leery of doing it and generally don’t except for the S&W snubby. The only reason I do it with the snubby is because I heard it from a guy who’s brother’s uncle read on the interwebz that someone from S&W said it was fine and actually recommended it as a cheap way to smooth out the trigger. I should probably look into that.

      3. avatar MarcusAurelius says:

        That pin in an XD will break much sooner than that, but it’s not crucial for the gun to function and Springfield will send you a replacement for free and the replacement will be more robust.

        I’m not really sure why there is a pin there, maybe to prevent the striker from falling out needlessly during a more detailed strip of the slide.

        Well, maybe not too much sooner than that. I used to dry fire quite a lot when I first got that gun.

        (I’m assuming the XDm isn’t much different with regards to that pin)

        1. avatar Benny says:

          Springfield sent me a new pin for free and I paid a gunsmith $10 or $20 to replace it. The only downside is that the broken pin wedged the firing pin out of the hole so that it essentially turned the pistol into a slam-firing-machine-gun-of-stupid-death. And with 19 rounds in the mag, I think my bladder would have been empty before the mag.

    4. avatar Hannibal says:

      My Ruger manual says it’s fine to dry fire, so I did it enough times to make the trigger pull smooth as butter. Now my striker-fired gun is probably not supposed to be dry-fired but they didn’t put a decocker on the thing (SA\DA, in that order) so… yeah. Had I not been trying to get a gun quickly at the time I would have found myself a nice hammered DA instead. Oh well.

  8. avatar Taylor Tx says:

    I dont know what an actual hunter looks like, but normally, I try to wear some camo as to aid in the identification :). Sadly, because it has become so uncommon to actually harvest your own meat, that stereotype has quite a bit of steam. I love taking people out for their 1st time (when I had somewhere to do it) because there is a HUGE connection with nature that most people skim over.
    My wife bought me a shirt at Academy that says “Gut Deer?” and damnit I didnt get to do any skinnin grizz this year, I feel like Im vicariously hunting through TTAG posts and pictures others have shown me.

    Haters gonna hate, Id have honestly never heard of wonkette if it wasnt for their bloody shirt waving. Coincidence?

    14 minutes may actually be short for a Moss Pawn gun guys video, but I do enjoy the random video interjections, most of the time theyre something I may have missed otherwise.

  9. avatar Independent George says:

    I learned a nifty trick on the CZ forums – on a hammer-fired pistol, put a $ 0.25 rubber O-ring on the back of the slide where the hammer hits the firing pin. This protects the firing pin while allowing you to dry-fire on an empty chamber, and acts as an additional safety precaution.

    1. avatar Marcus says:

      I just stumbled across a similar hack for dry-firing the LCP. If you can get beyond the funky denim shorts here, it’s a pretty good little trick. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fDJJXtM_UiI

  10. avatar Vhyrus says:

    I have broken exactly 1 firing pin in my life from dry firing, and it was on a rossi 357 that has an external hammer mounted firing pin EXACTLY like that colt has. So, to blatantly ripoff a TTAG staple, the pawn shop guys are wrong. Again. Still.

    Also, its not ‘crystallization from vibration’ or whatever the hell phrasing they pulled out of their beards, it is work hardening due to repeated impacts. When you dry fire a gun like that, you are basically cold forging the firing pin, making it extremely hard but very brittle in the process, and one day it snaps from being too brittle.

    1. avatar peirsonb says:

      I get work hardening, but if that was ALL that was happening then why wouldn’t it do that eventually with a live round? You’re still smacking steel with steel.

      1. avatar MarcusAurelius says:

        My bet is that the primer is helping to cushion the impact, stealing some of that energy to ignite the…primer stuff. At the very least I would think it would increase the time/number of hammer drops until breakage.

      2. avatar Matt in FL says:

        Primers are a lot softer and “give” more than whatever piece of hardened steel the pin would otherwise be hitting. A primer is a thin piece of metal that’s designed to get pushed in, while the other stopping thing is usually a monolithic block of steel.

    2. avatar max says:

      Actually, I had the same exact situation dry practicing with a Rossi .38. The tip of the firing pin just shot out the barrel.

    3. avatar Greg says:

      I think they are wrong on “hammer follow” as well. Whenever I’ve heard of hammer follow, it most often involved a discharge caused by the hammer not being caught by the disconnector (on an AR) and resulted in firing, not the inability to fire. I realize that with correct timing, the scenario they discussed could happen, but I don’t think it is as common as the “accidental” discharge.

    4. avatar Greg says:

      Also meant to say that I believe you are 100% correct about the cold forging/work hardening of the firing pin. In fact, cold forging is the opposite of crystallization. If you want to align the crystalline structure in metal, you can anneal (with heat) it and it will become softer. Cold forging dislocates the crystals (making the structure more random) and hardens the metal. The longer you cold forge, the more it resists further crystal dislocation but at the expense of potentially being brittle. So the “experts” from the pawn shop pretty much have this backwards.

  11. avatar DaveL says:

    “Crystallize the firing pin?”

    What sort of nonsense is that?

    1. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

      The redneck kind, I’m from a rural part of Texas, I hear dumb crap like all the time.

    2. avatar Matt in FL says:

      They’ve got the terminology wrong, but idea is the same. Repeated smacking of the firing pin against whatever’s stopping it can eventually make the pin brittle and crack.

  12. avatar Ronaldo_Ignacio says:

    So, does that actual hunter use that air rifle for more than just cans?

  13. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

    Dry fire damage is over exaggerated, quality, modern, centerfire firearms don’t have those issues anymore, except on rare occasions when demand is high and QC goes out the window, or a new design is getting the bugs worked out.

    Old guns, cheap guns, .22’s, mouse guns, and alike maintain the bulk of the dry fire problems.

    Dry fire practice often with the weapons you keep to protect yourself, it’s good practice you can do without a range and ammo. But, if the weapon you keep to protect yourself can’t handle it, maybe you should reconsider your weapon.

    It’s probably less of a dry fire damage problem and more of a poor quality gun problem, just my 2 cents.

  14. That’s about fifteen minutes of fun at the gun range, in my book.

    : )

  15. I caught that “dry firing” episode the other day and found it quite helpful actually. I did not realize one can decock a bolt action as they demonstrated it. Tried it out on my Mauser-brand-Mauser K98 and, yup, sure enough, worked like a charm, ditto on the Remington 870 precision rifle.

    IraqiVet is good people and makes great vids.

  16. avatar Rich Grise says:

    “Can anyone name another consumer item for which you have to be continuously aware of its legality for potentially years after you purchase it?”

    Incandescent light bulbs?

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      They can have my light bulbs when they PRY THEM FROM MY WARM, DEAD HANDS.

      Warm because those things get hot, geez.

  17. Pretty sure the rifle in the wonkette article is an air rifle. Built in can and such giving it away. They would probably really get their panties in a twist if they knew you could get an OMG SILENCED ASSAULT MURDER RIFLE off the shelf with no background check. Little birds and tins cans everywhere live in fear!!!

  18. avatar rosignol says:

    “I have a bigger one than you do.”

    Are we entirely certain that the convenience-store clerk was referring to his firearm? 😀

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