Smith & Wesson Confirms M&Ps Will Fall Off CA Approved List

 

The dominoes are officially falling. Ruger was the first to confirm that they’d rather let their guns drop off California’s approved list of semi-autos than try to comply with the farce that is microstamping. Now Smith & Wesson is out with a statement (after the jump) confirming that, with the exception of their new Cali-compliant M&P Shield and SDVE, all of their uber-popular M&P semi-auto guns will fall off the state’s approved list by August of this year. And Golden Staters have the nation’s best looking attorney general, Kamala Harris, to thank for her hyper-hoplophobic interpretation of the Unsafe Handgun Act. S&W’s statement doesn’t mention whether or not they’ll continue LEO sales to California agencies, but we’re efforting that . . .

SPRINGFIELD, Mass. (January 23, 2014) — Smith & Wesson Corp. announced today that although it continually seeks ways to refine and improve its firearms so that consumers have access to the best possible products, the State of California is making that impossible when it comes to California residents.

Under California’s “Unsafe Handgun Act,” any new semi-automatic pistol introduced into that state must comply with microstamping laws.  In addition, California asserts that anything other than a cosmetic change to a handgun already on the California Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale, including performance enhancements and other improvements, requires it to be removed from the roster and retested. For semi-automatic pistols, this means it must comply with the microstamping requirements, as well.

Smith & Wesson does not and will not include microstamping in its firearms.  A number of studies have indicated that microstamping is unreliable, serves no safety purpose, is cost prohibitive and, most importantly, is not proven to aid in preventing or solving crimes.  The microstamping mandate and the company’s unwillingness to adopt this so-called technology will result in a diminishing number of Smith & Wesson semi-automatic pistols available for purchase by California residents.

This is not a problem unique to Smith & Wesson.  The microstamping legislation and California’s position regarding performance enhancements and other improvements creates the same challenge for all firearm manufacturers, since presumably all of them refine and improve their products over time.

Smith & Wesson currently produces a California-compliant version of its M&P® Shield and SDVE™ pistols.  Both of these new products were launched last week at SHOT Show® in Las Vegas and are expected to begin shipping within 90 days.  They are expected to more than offset the impact of those M&P pistol models that will not remain on the Roster.  Both the M&P Shield and the SDVE pistols are expected to remain on the California Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale as long as no changes are made to those models and the company does not plan to make changes to them for this reason. All other Smith & Wesson handguns are at risk of eventually falling off the roster over time.  The company expects that any current production revolvers that fall off will be re-tested and returned to the roster, since microstamping does not apply to revolvers. Without some change in position by California, however, any semi-automatic pistols (other than the California-compliant models referenced above) that are removed from the roster will not be returned and law-abiding citizens will not be permitted to buy them from a licensed dealer in California.

James Debney, Smith & Wesson President & CEO, said, “As our products fall off the roster due to California’s interpretation of the Unsafe Handgun Act, we will continue to work with the NRA and the NSSF to oppose this poorly conceived law which mandates the unproven and unreliable concept of microstamping and makes it impossible for Californians to have access to the best products with the latest innovations. At the same time, we will do our best to support our customers in California with state-compliant products, enabling them access to at least a portion of the firearms to which we believe all citizens are entitled. In these challenging times, we hope you will support Smith & Wesson, and all gun manufacturers, in our fight to make the Unsafe Handgun Act about safety. We also encourage you to support the NSSF’s lawsuit and other efforts to stop microstamping, before it impacts your Constitutional rights.”

Unless California changes its position, all M&P pistols other than the M&P Shield, will fall off the roster by August, 2014, due to performance enhancements and other improvements we have made to those firearms. This includes the M&P9c, which has fallen off already and several other M&P models that will fall off by the end of this month.  Other models already have fallen off and will continue to fall off for the same reason. Visit http://oag.ca.gov/sites/oag.ca.gov/files/pdfs/firearms/removed.pdf each week for a list published by the California Department of Justice of the handguns no longer on the roster.

California firearms dealers should check the official California Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale frequently, to determine which handguns are certified for sale in California. This list can be found at http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/.

About Smith & Wesson

Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC) is a U.S.-based leader in firearm manufacturing and design, delivering a broad portfolio of quality firearms, related products and training to the consumer, law enforcement, and military markets. The company’s brands include Smith & Wesson®, M&P® and Thompson/Center Arms™. Smith & Wesson facilities are located in Massachusetts and Maine. For more information on Smith & Wesson, call (800) 331-0852 or log on to www.smith-wesson.com.

96 Responses to Smith & Wesson Confirms M&Ps Will Fall Off CA Approved List

  1. avatarRokurota says:

    Learned something from 1994, eh?

  2. avatarWerewolf1021 says:

    Hope to God Pena v Cid goes our way. Getting really fracking sick of this fracking roster.

  3. avatarExcedrine says:

    They’ll undoubtedly continue to sell to law enforcement agencies and service their weapons, though. As will Glock, and Ruger, and all of the other major players. Letting them fall off the “peasant’s list” means less than nothing without stopping all sales of these same weapons to any and all State government agencies and even to individual agents as well.

    This includes any and all accessories that are not available to civilians, too.

    • avatarcigardog says:

      This.

      To our brothers and sisters outside of California – if Ruger and S&W continue to sell to LE (both agencies and individual officers) in California, you need to boycott them and show them that this will not be tolerated.

      If Ruger and S&W treat LE the same as the citizens of the state, then please continue to support them.

      • avatarGov. William J. Le Petomane says:

        The downside is that pretty soon CA will have banned semi-autos altogether and you’ll be stuck with revolvers. Take S&W and Ruger out of the mix and you’re left with Taurus, and….

        • avatarMark N. says:

          Taurus? Try again. As with the others, revolvers will still be available, but hand guns are already nearaly non-existent. The following is the list of ALL available Taurus pistols (including the dates they drop off the roster if not renewed). You will note that there are only 5 models, with variations in trim:

          PT745 (Blue) / Blued Steel/Polymer Pistol 3.25″ .45 ACP 7/18/2014
          PT745 (Stainless) / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.25″ .45 ACP 7/18/2014
          PT 940 (Blue) / Aluminum Alloy, Blued Steel Pistol 3.625″ .40 S&W 7/18/2014
          PT940 (Stainless) / Aluminum Alloy, Stainless Steel Pistol 3.625″ .40 S&W 7/18/2014
          PT38S (Blue) / Steel/Alloy Pistol 4.25″ .38 Super 8/23/2014
          PT92 (Blue & Gold w/Pearl) / Blue Steel Pistol 5″ 9mm 3/28/2014
          PT92 (Blue & Gold w/Rosewood) / Blue Steel Pistol 5″ 9mm 3/28/2014
          PT92 (Blue w/Rosewood) / Blue Steel Pistol 5″ 9mm 3/28/2014
          PT92 (Blue) / Blue Steel Pistol 5″ 9mm 7/11/2014
          PT92 (Stainless & Gold w/Pearl) / Stainless Steel Pistol 5″ 9mm 3/28/2014
          PT92 (Stainless & Gold w/Rosewood) / Stainless Steel Pistol 5″ 9mm 3/28/2014
          PT92 (Stainless w/Rail) / Aluminum Alloy, Stainless Steel Pistol 5″ 9mm 6/20/2014
          PT92 (Stainless w/Rosewood) / Stainless Steel Pistol 5″ 9mm 3/28/2014
          PT92 (w/Rubber Grips & Rail) / Blue Steel Pistol 5″ 9mm 8/10/2014
          PT92 Special / Stainless Steel, Steel Pistol 5″ 9mm 7/22/2014
          PT99 (Blue w/adj sight) / Blue Steel Pistol 5″ 9mm 3/28/2014
          PT99 (Stainless w/adj sight) / Stainless Steel Pistol 5″ 9mm 3/28/2014

        • Governor, with all due Respect, to your Position, [When Commenting on Guns, you show, just how little you Really know? [ie.], saying: We’d be left with only “Taurus”!… [if, the other 2, went away!]….. Did you realize, “Taurus”, Is, one of the only Companies, to “Lifetime Warranty”, All the Guns they Sell?…[This Warranty, goes with the Gun, to whomever buys it!... Hymmmmn]. “Taurus”, is No LONGER, THE SATURDAY NIGHT, “Special”, it once was Conceived to Be!…. Noting, please!…. Taurus, bought the Brazilian Factory, off “Berretta”!… Now, they make Every Part, for their Guns!…[Not having to Sub out, triggers, hammers, ect. like many compaies do, to cut costs]. Knowing, their making things Right, at a Very Reasonable “Price”, Their Confident, in their Product, so they “Lifetime Warranty”, Now !!!… “Who Else”, Warranties the Guns they Make?… Name Another Company?… Hymmmn, i didn’t think So!….
          Respectfully,
          Captain George Dowling

        • avataremfourty gasmask says:

          Dunno about you but I have a Taurus 991 for cottontail hunting and it has been absolutely flawless and wonderful. They’re quite substantially better than they were before.

        • avatarpeirsonb says:

          Holy hell…..it’s good to know someone is making up for my lack of punctuation when commenting from my phone….

        • avatarGov. William J. Le Petomane says:

          I’m not personally a Taurus hater. I have a PT709 and it’s a nice little pistol, although I don’t like the Glock style take down at all. They do have a great warranty, but I’ve heard a lot of stories of people having to send them back a second time to get it right. Still, you get a lot for your money with Taurus, so I have no bone with them. My point was that the revolver market consists of S&W, Ruger, Taurus, Rossi (owned by Taurus and manufactured in Brazil), Charter and a few high end bear guns and that’s about it. Charter only makes a few models, mostly snubbies. Taurus certainly has just about anything you want, but I’ve yet to hear anyone claim their quality rivals Ruger or Smith. And if you’d like an American made revolver your choices are really limited. When it comes to the point where that’s all the state will let you have, you shouldn’t be too quick to write off 2/3 of the market.

        • avatarTaylor Tx says:

          Reminds me of a guy with a bag full of webleys

      • avatarJim Barrett says:

        Agreed. The fastest way to kill these stupid laws is for manufacturers to apply the same rules to LEOs as they do to regular folk. If, in ten years or so, the boys from “CHiPs” and other agencies have to go back to revolvers because that is all they can get, these laws will hit the trash heap as they are supposed to. This is a Cold War between the elites and the rest of us and it needs to be won.

        • avatarTomy Ironmane says:

          Which is what some companies are doing, as I recall…. I heard a story that when California banned .50BMG, their state cops lost the ability to send their antimateriel rifles back to the manufacturer for repair, since the manufacturer pretty much told them to take a hike.

  4. avatarMatt in FL says:

    “[The M&P Shield and the SDVE pistols] are expected to more than offset the impact of those M&P pistol models that will not remain on the Roster.”

    Uh huh. Sure they are.

    • avatarTaylor Tx says:

      Yea I enjoyed the “all of our pistols are gone except these two, but they will totally *wink wink* make up for it” math as well.

  5. avatarSwarf says:

    Holy shit. This is looking really bad.

    Or at least bad short term for our people in CA.

    Long term? I don’t know. I’ve read some rosy projections, but it’s hard for me to see this as anything but a devious win for people who can’t understand why I should have a gun.

    Will it turn enough voters? Doubt it. It’s a tight gamble. I’m glad they’ve started to put a bet on the table, but it only really counts when you refuse to sell weapons to the LEOs

  6. avatarTom in Oregon says:

    Maybe, just maybe, with enough emails, letters, phone calls, etc. pressure the manufacturers to just plain stop ALL sales to California. Period. Also, no repairs to any guns.
    How long would it take before free enterprise could pressure the idiots in CA to bring about change? 6 months? A year tops…

    • avatarMark N. says:

      Longer. The microstamping mandate was passed in 2007, and was probably sold on the representation that it would be great for law enforcement (notwithstanding the fact that the safe handguns roster was supposed o be about safety, and has nothing to do with law enforcement). The law was delayed until microstamping technology was “generally available,” a term AG Harris interpreted as “not protected by any patent. The patent having expired, she proclaimed that the law was now in effect–even though there isn’t a single microstamping pistol on the market, a fact which she knows full well. Thus, what was sold for one purpose has been utilized to forward Harris’ plan to prevent the transfer or sale of firearms in California. She is responsible for the new law that took “excess” fees from the $25 fee charged for the California DROS (Dealer Record of Sale) registration and applied them to police services to recover firearms from prohibited persons. Her department has delayed countless applications on the basis the department could not ascertain the disposition of various criminal cases–many of them decades old and for which no court records existed because cases had been dropped, resulting in gun owners who had previously passed background checks from collecting new purchases from their FFLs. And she has her eyes locked firmly on he Governor’s seat in the future.

      All this said, it will take an act of the Legislature to change anything Harris has done–but it seems rather to support her efforts. Since the microstamping mandate is statutory, and since the Legislature is unlikely to retract it, it will take a final court order to eliminate the provision–and that will take a minimum five years.

    • avatarCharles solomon says:

      Tom in Oregon, You do not understand what is really going on here in califarcia. With all the free handouts from gov jerry, kamala harris and the sacra legislature to illegal alien leaches from mexico, california is becoming a welfare state with exploding 3rd world population of compliant cheap labor peasants. Ride around LosAngeles and you will be shocked at 38-50% unleased storefronts: Out Of Business. these mexislave bots must Not have guns but slave for the government and the rich for $4.50p/Hr After Taxes out of their pathetic pay. Guns to revolt????Helll No!!!!
      kamala harris turns her head away from the welfare fraud these mexican Locusts perpatrate as “essential illegal alien and anchor baby services” to the tune of $10Billion p/year. The politicos here are servants for the evil rich who cleared $2.75Trillion profit from cheap illegal alien labor across cali and the nation with the WhiteHouse islamic’s blessings; gas here $4.50P/gallon…”change we need” and change we got. Meanwhile gov jerry state collectors, cops and townships are always after US for more money, tickets, parking levys, tax levys and NO guns!! to revolt with= No Revolt. They are ALWAYS after us for more money so these parasite politicians and bureaucrats can keep their cushy jobs by getting votes from the alien leaches who have NO GUNS. And the obomination’s brother, malik obama, a high ranking alqaeda officer, is watching the LA scenario. 60% of the southern california cops have criminal records and shoot to kill for convenience.figure it out with this unlawful california gun list.
      2+2=4

  7. avatarFrank Masotti says:

    Here’s hopping all firearm companies refuse to jump through those kind of hoops.

  8. avatarcubby123 says:

    Who cares they are bound and determined to let gangs take over so screw California. If you choose to live in stupidville and keep electing assholes you get what you get!

    • avatarLongBeach says:

      Yeah I definitely voted for De Leon and Feinstein and mag limits and AWBs and shoulder things that go up. Stop painting us all with a broad brush. Just because we’re underdogs doesn’t mean we aren’t fighting like hell, so instead of pontificating from your high horse why don’t you recognize that your brothers in arms need support and offer some? We are supporters of a common cause, and it would serve us all well if we behaved as such. I don’t like it, I wish we didn’t need to fight, but we do. So I will. And I would love some help.

      • avatarDavis Thompson says:

        Some smart guy from the past said something like this:

        We hang together or we hang seperately.

        Check to Calguns on the way!

    • avatarBrooklyn in da house says:

      You deserve Obama and Holder.

  9. avatarArdent says:

    What is it they say? Oh yeah, leave your current position, you’re behind enemy lines. It would not surprise nor distress me if all manufacturers refused to meet the requirements to sell in California. California is lost, there isn’t likely to be a rebound of rights in general or 2a rights in particular in that state. Just get out! Leave for greener pastures and let the mess collapse under it’s own weight. At this point a few cents of ever dollar of tax dollar you pay into the state is used to oppress you and you essentially have no representation. increasingly it’s difficult to take a California seriously when they proclaim to be a 2A supporter, since whatever else they may do, they enable with their tax dollars a situation that is anti liberty in general and anti 2A in particular. The exception would be the (decidedly rare) Californian who gave more to 2A groups than they paid in state taxes. If you’re not one of these then you are actively funding the forces of evil. Pray you’re never held to account for it.

    • avatarJeff says:

      N. California seriously needs to get the ball rolling on seceding and forming Jefferson. Us up here in Oregon and Washington support them all the way. The north end of CA is a great place, I truly feel sorry for them continuously being fucked over by the Socal morons in LA and SF Bay – yeah, the Bay area is the northern border of Socal.

      • avatarMark N. says:

        The State of Jefferson will never exist as anything other that a pipe dream. First, it would have to make economic sense, and currently it does not. Second, it would require the approval of the legislatures of both California and Oregon, and since N. California is sitting on a sizeable portion of the water supply for every major city in the State, it isn’t going to pass–just as with gun bills, the urban areas have the votes. Finally, it would also require the approval of the federal government; not sure of the process, but I think it would have to pass the Senate. Since California’s senators come from urban areas, you can be assured of no votes from them.

      • avatarGuy From V says:

        Sorry, we in the Pacific Northwest already have another more attractive pipe-dream secessionist movement with British Columbia that doesn’t include California: Cascadia

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_%28independence_movement%29

    • avatarLongBeach says:

      I don’t have my accountant handy so I couldn’t say for sure, but I spent an assload of money supporting the NRA and CalGuns. Was it worth it in terms of gains? Probably not. But I’m fighting.

    • avatar505markf says:

      I will avoid sarcasm and choose bluntness: your argument is insane. I get you think CA is a cesspool because of their failure to support the Second Amendment and because of their ludicrous progressive agendas. “Let the mess collapse under its own weight,” you say. I get it, but I also get that California’s gross state product is almost two TRILLION dollars per year, which is 13% of the GDP for the ENTIRE US. If that state collapses, it will drag the entire rest of the country down with it.

      The only solution – if we want to avoid an economic disaster far greater than 1929 – is to begin fixing these states. If not, they’ll drag us down with them. Running away does nothing. Ignoring it because people live in other places does nothing. This is truly a case of we either all hang together or we will surely hang separately. You don’t win anything by not fighting where the fight is hardest.

      At least send CALGUNS some money and an encouraging email. They need it. And for the record, I do not live in California. Hell, I don’t even like the place. But the people there who want better for themselves and their families deserve our support.

      • avatardlj95118 says:

        …thank you, Sir.

      • avatartdiinva says:

        You are confusing state government with the state economy. Just because the government goes bankrupt doesn’t mean that businesses go down as well. An argument can be made that the collapse of state government will mean an end to a lot of the regulations that have caused business to flee the state and it could end up increasing the size of the private sector. Attempting to prop up California will only result in dragging down the rest of the country just like Greek and Spanish bailouts have dragged down the EU.

        • avatar505markf says:

          Oh, yeah? Move an avocado or almond farm. Or the seacoast. Or the Sierra Nevadas. Some business just can’t pick up and move because they are tied to the land, environment, or local resources. I am not confusing anything and well understand the difference between an economy and a government. Show me a city that declared bankruptcy that has a healthy, growing economy? Stupid government kills business and growth. Always. They two cannot be separated.

          I think the government in CA is insane, but it is not just CA’s problem. Those morons CAN drag us down with them and if we don’t do something to stop it, they’ll do it. The agendas of the people that caused the problem in CA do not respect state lines, and neither does the problem.

          My point is that failure to support 2A rights is a symptom of a much bigger problem. It is that much bigger problem – call it progressive, liberal, or socialist agendas (or whatever proper name exists for it) – that causes the problems. Do you actually think that the people who hold to those beliefs can’t also move? See Colorado, which used to be a conservative stronghold but is no longer. Yeah, they threw out three senators, but the laws passed still stand.

          I do not know if the culture in CA could ever be turned around enough. I hope it can. All people who are oppressed strive for freedom, no matter where they live. Maybe they can turn it around. But simply cutting them loose is not sufficient to protect ourselves from the side effects of their craziness.

      • avatarEvan says:

        GDP is not a particularly important number. Governments love to use it as a way to pat themselves on the back. The Soviet Union had a very high GDP and so did the US during world war 2. The soviets produced nothing of value and neither did the US during wartime. California is not worthless, but it is a state that needs to collapse under its own weight. It cannot be won as the vast majority of people love progressivism too much. It is their god and they will not be convinced otherwise. Productive people who believe in freedom need to go galt and flee to a myriad of other states who would actually appreciate them. Once California has it’s Detroit moment it can start anew. The CA government parasite must be starved of all nourishment. Therefore like I said, you are better off falling back into friendly territory for now.

  10. avatarMark L says:

    It will eventually be changed or found unconstitutional. Since it doesn’t apply to revolvers, it makes little sense and seems arbitrary

    • avatarDJ9 says:

      Playing the Devil’s advocate for a moment…

      The micro-stamping requirement does not apply to revolvers because they do not automatically eject empty brass cases onto the ground when fired, where the cases might be found and analyzed later by law enforcement.

      Or so their argument will say…

      • avatarMark N. says:

        In addition, the law calls for the stamp to appear in two places on a casing. While a revolver could leave a stamp on the primer, it’s lack of a locking breach deprives it mechanically of the ability to mark stamp on the rim of the casing. Basically, the bolt face of a semiauto stamps the rim when it chambers a round.

  11. avatarDaniel Silverman says:

    Good to know we called this one right.

  12. avatarColoradan says:

    My Cali compliant SW1911 dropped off the list in Nov 2013 and hasn’t returned. So I assume it’s not just their M&P pistols that will be dropping of the list.

  13. avatarGov. William J. Le Petomane says:

    I would think that as big as California is that it would be worth keeping one or two models around just for the state. If S&W and Ruger are going to continue selling revolvers in the state, why not keep a relic around if it’s going to be one of the three semis on the shelf. Then again, when you are selling a million firearms a year (Ruger) you can afford to drop a weapon that your are selling 50,000 units a year (P95). Perhaps that’s the same as when they dropped the mini-14 for a couple of years, or maybe I just don’t know dick about the industry. But one thing I do know is that if they bring out a new P95 it will NOT be sold in California. I think if this trend continues someone will clean up when they’ve cornered the California market by default. Then again, by the time California is done, it will probably be somebody who makes cap and ball revolvers.

  14. avatarMurray says:

    CANT PROSECUTE A GUN, GUN SIGNS SHELL BUT WHOSE FINGER ON THE TRIGGER? SOUNDS LIKE INFRINGEMENT TO ME

  15. avatarensitue says:

    The 2ndA is YOUR God Given Natural Right.
    ‘Hoping’ that some ‘Legal, law of man’ can usurp God’s Law puts some folks on the confused side of the argument.
    It’s not nice to fool with Mother Nature
    Bangor Punta should leave the Golden Shores of NH/Conn/Maine/NY/Liberalism
    Relocate to TX, sweety

    • avatarAnonymous says:

      Why do Texans on here insist that Texas is a 2nd Amendment paradise? Far from it; you’re not much better than CA.

      • avataruncommon_sense says:

        I would put Texas solidly near the bottom of the pack when it comes to the Second Amendment because Texas criminalizes open carry of handguns and criminalizes carrying concealed in schools, universities, and wherever else they specify. Further, carrying into a business with an official 30-06 (no guns) sign is a felony. Finally, Texas is NOT a constitutional concealed carry state. Most of the other 40 or so states with shall issue concealed carry laws do NOT criminalize open carry and carrying concealed into a business with a “no guns” sign is simple misdemeanor trespassing. Of course a few states even have constitutional concealed carry. Those states are far superior when it comes to the Second Amendment.

      • avatarJim Barrett says:

        That is a point worth repeating. I lived in Texas in the 1980′s and at that time, MA’s gun laws were less restrictive than Texas’s believe it or not. You could get a carry permit in MA. You couldn’t carry concealed in Texas unless you were a cop. Texas is on a long, slow climb towards gun rights, but it still has a few mountains to surmount. There are definitely a number of states with fewer restrictions today – even some in the Northeast like New Hampshire and Vermont.

        • avatarJ from Texas says:

          The point about Texas not being much better than California regarding 2a rights is worth repeating because another states laws were better in 1980? That “logic” sounds a lot like something I expect to hear from another group.

      • avatarRockOnHellChild says:

        Texans are prideful (I know it’s proud, I don’t care), it’s just how we are, but I’ve moved around a lot, I know Texas isn’t the most gun friendly state out there…

        That being said, it’s a far cry from Cali, so don’t be as narrow minded as those who insist Texas is #1 in gun rights.

        Some people say Texans are too arrogant, but with all due respect, if ya’ll think that, go f**k yourself and have mighty fine day!

      • avatarJ from Texas says:

        I certainly do not think Texas is a 2A paradise and Cali actually has a few things going for it if you are a gun owner. Very few but they are there, however Texas being barely better for gun owners? That is absolutely ridiculous.

        • avatarRockOnHellChild says:

          That list of Texas approved pistols and TX compliant rifles keeps getting shorter by the day, don’t you know?

      • avatarCharlie says:

        I’ve lived in many states in this nation of ours. CA is not the only state under assault from both its state government as well as the federal government. This will become a nation-wide problem. We need to support every state whose rights are being targeted. The micro-stamping is nothing less than a loing-term attempt at banning firearms; ie. taking away our Second Amendment rights. Contribute what we can to any organization trying to rescue our Constitution.

    • avatarShawn says:

      It is not a God given right. It is a right given by founders of this country.

      • avatarRockOnHellChild says:

        The right to adequate protection of yourself and family is a natural law, which was recognized by the founders.

        You can’t fist fight someone with a rifle pointed at you, you need a rifle.

      • avatarDerryM says:

        No, Shawn, it is a Natural Right inherent to all Human Beings. The Second Amendment in the Constitution merely affirms it as a Right protected by the Constitutional Republic.
        To wit, the phrase “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” refers to RKBA in an absolute form, “the right”, which can only be interpreted as an acknowledgement that ” the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,..” exists absolutely prior to and without dependence upon the the existence of the Constitution. Whether is is “God given” or not can be debated, but the fact it exists as an “inalienable” right of all Human Beings is not dependent upon its source or specification in a formal document. So, it is with all the fundamental, Natural Rights of all Human Beings.

      • avatarHamChuck says:

        Wrong Shawn. The founding fathers only acknowledged (by writing into the 2A) that the right to keep and bear arms was one of the “natural” rights all humans have from birth. It is not “given” by anyone to anyone else. It simply is.

        • avatarsmackit says:

          Maybe Shawn’s problem is the same that leftists and atheists have…there is no such as God so you cant have such as thing as a “God given right” so therefore you can only have the right bestowed upon you by the government. Either way, it’s a bunch of wrong headed thinking.

  16. avatarST says:

    Sorry, CA gun owners, but here’s the no-BS assessment of what’s coming.

    Other manufacturers, realizing that Californias market isn’t good enough to invest the capital for making a separate ,obsolete gun model, will follow suit and leave the market.

    Regrettably, there’s no case precedent yet establishing that the RKBA supersedes state level commercial regulation.
    Which means once the case lands in front of the 9th Circuit, they’ll say ” Ah!No infringment here! Lo, a revolver is a suitable expression of the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms!”

    But lets not be pessimistic here.Assume the Ninth Circuit sees the light and strikes down the roster. You can bet every gun in your safe and every dime in your wallet that Kamala Harris WILL appeal the decision.Which means more years waiting on the appellate court to make a decision.When they do, same problem-Harris, or her replacement , will appeal THAT ruling.

    Meanwhile, the average Joe in California sees their options for handguns fall down to a HiPoint or a Gen 3 Glock.Assuming the SCOTUS takes the case -and there’s no assurance they will- it will be YEARS before any practical relief will be brought by the judiciary.

    Or not, because even if the SCOTUS struck down the Safe Handgun Roster, California would pull a Chicago Whack-A-Mole and start playing games looking for loopholes in the judicial ruling to maintain the racket while complying with the letter of the ruling .Which would require ANOTHER lawsuit to fix.Which strikes down V2, triggering another re-write to keep the roster in violation of case precedent. On and on it would go, until five odd years after the SCOTUS said enough then maybe something akin to a free handgun market would exist again in CA.

    It took five years after Heller before Chicago stopped playing games and obeyed the judiciary, and only after the Federal circuits made it clear Chicago’d worn out their welcome .

    • avatarCarlosT says:

      The Ninth Circuit are appellate courts. It would be District Courts, then the Ninth Circuit, the the Supreme Court, if they chose to grant cert.

      Otherwise, your analysis sounds right, but so what? Yes, the fight in California will be long and hard. I don’t think there’s anyone living there who has paid any attention whatsoever expects any different.

  17. avatarRockOnHellChild says:

    So, this micro stamping law only effects semi auto pistols, right?

    So, I reckon the Cali revolvers guys are good to go… Well, at least until another moderately attractive, gun hating AG interprets revolvers to be semi automatic pistols…

    Cali residents will be relegated to single action, six shooting smoke wagons before long if people don’t stand and fight this, or at least until those become unsafe, assault weapons too.

    Defense wins Super Bowls, not fights for your rights, go on the offensive or perish.

    • avatarMark N. says:

      Nah, forget cartridge weapons. Pretty soon, we will have to pass a background check and pay an annual fee for a license to buy nothing but FMJ ammo in a face to face transaction. And when that dries up, no 1873s for we. We are going to be limited to muzzleloaders.

  18. avatarJim Barrett says:

    What really needs to happen now is for the major gun manufacturers to put their 2A money where their mouths are and to follow the lead of some of the smaller gun makers in limiting LEO and State government sales to the exact same things that the common folk can aquire. If all of the major gun manufacturers were to do this, stupid laws like this one and the NY SAFE act would be stricken from the books. 2A supporters need to put the same level of energy into pressuring these companies as they did during the Congressional hearings last year. One way to start would be to pick a company and start boycotting its products until they signed on. Then move to the next company. If we could get Sig Sauer, Glock, and Smith to fold, the others would follow suit. Few other companies have the infrastructure to make the large number of guns needed by Law Enforcement at the prices LEOs want to pay.

    • avatarMack Bolan says:

      I would agree on this one.

      Barking up the political tree, and trying to change the law is a lost cause in California long term. Holding the Manufacturers accountable would be the most direct and most expedient route to take.

      If it’s a law then it should apply to all citizens which includes LEO’s.

    • avatarMark N. says:

      LEOs are not subject to the roster; and there is nothing to prevent them from buying guns from out of state through the internet. The FFLs will continue to sell to them. The only effective remedy is the Barrett doomsday scenario–the company refuses to service any of its .50 BMG rifles that are owned by California law enforcement agencies.

      • avatarJim Barrett says:

        My comments were not so much focused on the individual LEO buying a gun, but rather what happens when the California Highway Patrol decides to solicit bids from manufacturers to replace their duty weapons. If the major player simply no-bid these solicitations (or better only bid with the kind of gun that normal Californian’s can buy) people would start to sit up and take notice fast.

    • avatarJus Bill says:

      HEY NSSF, ARE YOU LISTENING?

  19. avatarDerryM says:

    I find it ironically disgusting that after all the years we California Gun Owners have supported the Gun Lobbies (whose efforts benefit the Gun Makers as much as the Gun Owners) that Smith & Wesson, Ruger and others are willing to f*ck us and walk-away. I recognize the “required micro-stamping technology” was designed by the civilian RKBA haters in Sacramento as an unfeasible technology which would result in exactly what is happening.
    I fully expect these Gun Makers will continue to supply the Law Enforcement Agencies In California and regard the loss of sales to “ordinary citizen” purchasers as “acceptable losses”. In the end only the Law-Abiding Citizen Gun Owner (or aspiring gun owner) gets hurt…what a surprise!

    • avatarracenutz says:

      You’re blaming the wrong people. It’s you’re fellow statesmen that have fucked you NOT gun manufactures. Don’t worry though it’s all going according to your elected representatives plan to disarm your whole state.

    • avatarWassim Absood says:

      They’re helping us out in Pena vs Lindley (nee Cid); the roster is becoming a ban more blatantly.

  20. avatarAnonymous says:

    So dumb. If you know how to clean a gun then you know how to remove the micro stamp from the firing pin. Little bit of 600 grit sandpaper should do it. Also, this is going to stop or prevent crime how? Micro stamping will be no secret to the residents of CA. So easily circumvented – and at what cost?

    • avatarJim Barrett says:

      No one in the California legislature (who has not already fried their brains on medical marijuana) seriously thinks any major gun maker is going to incorporate micro-stamping. The whole point is to create a barrier to firearms ownership that can survive a court challenge. “Your honor, we are not restricting guns, we are only requiring this safety feature. As long as a manufacturer incorporates it, they are free to sell their guns here.” The sad truth is that this is likely to work. It would not surprise me to see this provision survive the court challenge. Courts don’t care if the measure will significantly increase the cost of gun ownership – they only care if the barrier is technically unfeasible. Unfortunately, from a technical perspective, it is feasible. From a cost perspective, not so much.

      • avatarTomy Ironmane says:

        If that kinda reasoning would survive in the modern courtroom, then perhaps more than the California legislature needs a good housecleaning.

        Cost IS a technical consideration. Thus, we are in essence facing a firearms tax and registration, levied by the state of California, in order to bar the economically less advantaged (poor people) from exercising what would otherwise be a constitutionally guaranteed right.

  21. avatarKyle in CT says:

    If this trend continues, I’m failing to see how this will not run afoul of the Heller decision. DC’s handgun ban was struck down because it banned an entire class of firearm, and if most manufacturers follow suit (and I believe they will given the economics for the situation) it seems to me that this is clearly a backdoor ban on a class of firearm that is in common use for lawful purposes. I can’t imagine that ever surviving scrutiny at the federal level. That, of course, could take years.

    • avatarST says:

      Banning handguns=banning a class of common use handguns as per legal decision.

      The million dollar question: does the 2nd Amendment extend to the commercial availability of ” specific” types of handguns? As bad as these decisions are, the roster will NEVER be completely devoid of semi autos available for sale.As such, the opposition will say that the Roster doesn’t violate Heller because HiPoints are still certified for sale–and the decision of manufacturers to not build microstamping tech is a commerce issue outside of the RKBA.

  22. avatarJT says:

    I would rather these companies come out and just say that the real reason they are letting the guns drop of the list is the stupid renewal process for the list and not the microstamping. Why? “any new semi-automatic pistol introduced into that state must comply with microstamping laws”. The key word there is “new”. Everything I am reading says that guns that are already on the list can continue to be on the list without microstamping as long as changes aren’t made. So while the new laws would make it more difficult so submit new guns, it doesn’t seem to affect old ones as they would be grandfathered (like gen 3 Glocks are with some of the features that have already been required for a number of years). Telling people they won’t be renewed because the guns would have to have microstamping added is a bit dishonest,

    • avatarJim Barrett says:

      The problem is that as gun manufacturers make changes to their guns, they don’t want to have to continue to manufacture and older model just to be in compliance with California law. Running two different versions of the same product drives up cost. Most manufacturers will probably keep one or two models of their guns that are California-compliant in production, but new versions of the rest of their product lines will be unavailable. While a big state, I suspect that private firearms sales to California residents is becoming a smaller portion of manufacturer’s overall revenue stream each year and is rapidly approaching the point where many gun makers simply can’t be bothered to jump through the hoops the California legislature requires.

      • avatarJR says:

        Right, and couple that with the loose way “new” is defined….

      • avatarMark N. says:

        If a manufacturer replaces a forged part with a MIM part (to reduce costs), it is a “new” gun as far as the DOJ is concerned, and must be re-tested and comply with the MS mandate.

  23. avatarShawn says:

    How many of you have written these companies and told them that you will not support them unless they no longer sell to LEOs or repair the firearms?

  24. avatarJAS says:

    Policing ones brass just took a whole new meaning for you folks in CA.

    What would keep an unscrupulous law enforcement person, or any other person for that matter, from going to a range and collecting pistol brass from the ground, then planting them in a homicide crime scene?

    • avatarJAS says:

      And what about reloading? Someone reloads pre fired brass, sells the reloads, repeat trice, now you have four stamps on the same brass. Attorneys will have a field day with this micro stamping BS, it just won’t hold up.

  25. avatarScott says:

    So they’re going to let us keep a gun that had a huge recall, and a piece of shit? Wow, thanks S&W! I know my shop won’t be carrying either of those….

  26. avatarSalty Bear says:

    When the war for our already-constitutionally-enumerated RKBA lasts longer than WWII, Vietnam, and the war on terror combined, we must be doing it wrong.

  27. avatarTom says:

    Why in the hell will the gun industry stop grasping for government contracts which are few and far between and do the patriotic thing rather than putting bucks over the Bill Of Rights. Stop all sales and service to California government agencies.

    • avatarJus Bill says:

      “Why in the hell will the gun industry stop grasping for government contracts which are few and far between and do the patriotic thing…”

      No revenue = layoffs.

      Patriotism does not put food on the table. But that won’t faze the Libs who caused this mess. Layoffs will just create more people on the Government dole while they look for work. Skilled craftspeople do not grow on trees, but neither do their jobs.

  28. avatarWassim Absood says:

    I think only fair to point out that microstamping became law in California when the bill was signed by the Republican Governor Schwartenagger…..Kamala Harris merely certified that the technology was a go, which was the trigger for the microstamping requirement.

  29. The manufacturers are starting to do their part. WE have a part to play, as well and that “we” is all of us whether we live in California or not. We need to put some pressure on the manufacturers to also exclude sales to LEO and other state agencies, not just dropping the public market. That kind of public support/pressure not only provides encouragement but it also gives them a necessary political cover to do the right thing. There are many times that I’ve required that kind of outside or market pressure to do what I want to do anyway.

    I know that sounds political. The truth is, it is political. And all politics are ultimately grass root.

  30. avatarCharles Solomon says:

    Sales to LEOs – caliFARCIA law enFARCMENT “officers”?? Here in caliFARCIA, the cops are arrogant
    killers who walk into a gunshop and Demand SemiAutos marked: “for law enforcement only”. Expecting manufacturers to “comply” with the sacramento Looney List, rep harris and the OTHER politically EXPEDIENT opportunists who dream up these “laws” to justify their “tenure” is asking the manufacturers to go Over the Line. A sacramento politician costs the taxpayers $210,000 per year to dream up these “laws” which are an affront to Citizens Rights as well as 2A, while they WASTE $10,000,000,000 (BILLION) Per Year for “illegal immigrant essential services” including ALL “anchor baby” related costs. Get real, these fraudists, including”gov” jerry brown, aren’t about citizen rights or preserving 2A, They are about a cushy job with NO Reponsibility for Life.

    • avatarKyle says:

      If we could actually make the law non-exemptable by any california Law enforcement and government bodyguards, that would end it. They’d repeal the thing in a week.

      Sadly though, they’d actually just invalidate whatever proposition we used to actually make law enforcement comply with their own dumb law.

  31. avatarTicked says:

    I left LA in 2004 after residing there for 20 years. Best move I ever made. Moved out of Kalifornia, never looked back, and quality of life improved immensely.

  32. avatarKyle says:

    Well, when all the firearms fall off the list, I’m sure that will end all gun ownership in california right?

  33. avatarchris says:

    glad I bought my M&P40 before it fell off the list.

  34. avatarCharlesSolomon says:

    And so, Instead of sitting around and Male Moaning and Groaning about the power abuse by our CaliFarcia ag kamala Harris and the insane Sacramento State legislature, I went to the LA Library, legal section, and researched Federal Laws to see if I could try and help. Sent the following Federal Law info to
    Cal-Guns, 2nd Amendment, Glock, Ruger and, of Course, Smith&Wesson Manufacturers. May the info help them; don’t know but I tried to do my part in stopping these “new world order” PowerBots from turning people in to Sheople; there’s enough of them Here to begin with.
    To: Calguns Foundation Inc. The Second Amendment Foundation
    970 Reserve Drive, Ste# 133 / 12500 NE 10th Place
    Roseville, Ca 95678 Bellevue, Wa 98005

    Dear Sirs/Madam: I am writing to you so that I may be of help in overturning the California “Handgun Roster” Monopoly and restoring 2nd Amendment rights to California firearms consumers. It is Very Probable California AG Kamala Harris as well as The California State Legislature are in violation of Federal Anti Trust laws by creating A Firing Pin Microstamp scheme monopoly used to interfere with interstate commerce. Destroying Interstate Commerce by Use of A Monopoly is a felony.
    The Harris/ California Legislature scheme eliminates firearms manufacturers, who Do Not Comply With The Monopoly, from selling their products to California consumers while extorting large fees from manufacturers, “once approved” to be on the “DOJ approved firearms list”. POWER TO REGULATE:
    By creating the pistol firing pin micro stamping monopoly scheme, these expedient politicians created an exclusive “California DOJ approved firearms maker list” allowing only those manufacturers who comply with The Monopoly to sell product to the California firearms consumer market. “Although a state may NOT directly regulate, prohibit, or burden interstate or foreign commerce, it may incidentally and indirectly affect it by a Bona Fide, LEGITIMATE, and Reasonable exercise of its police powers. States are powerless to regulate commerce with Indian tribes.” AG Kamala Harris, in collusion with the California Sacramento legislature, rubber stamped their monopoly scheme into a California state law which violates the Federal Sherman Act Anti Trust Laws by destroying interstate commerce between ALL firearms manufacturers and the California consumers market by requiring firearm makers to comply with The Monopoly Scheme. This IS an unreasonable burden upon Interstate Commerce while attempting to mask their Illegal Scheme by invoking Tenth Ammendment States Commerce Regulating Authority:
    “Although The U.S. Constitution places SOME Limits on State Power, the states enjoy guaranteed rights by virtue of their reserved powers pursuant to the Tenth Amendment: “A state has the inherent and reserved right to regulate its Domestic Commerce. HOWEVER, That Right MUST be Exercised in a manner that does NOT interfere with, or place a burden on Interstate Commerce, or else Congress may regulate that area of domestic commerce in order to Protect Interstate Commerce from The Unreasonable Burden”. These Conspirators Use their firing pin micro stamp monopoly scheme to Destroy Full Interstate Commerce and deny California Citizens of their 2nd Ammendment right to Purchase and Bear arms UNLESS The California Consumers Purchase product from the California “DOJ firearms roster list” monopoly. This extortion is an ILLEGAL BURDEN created by AG Kamala Harris and The California State Legislature. “If the subject of Interstate Commerce is national in character, requiring Uniform Regulation, The power of Congress to regulate it IS EXCLUSIVE.” Interference Of Interstate Commerce, be it by one person or a group of conspirators by use of an introduced Monopoly is punishable by The United States Interstate Commerce Codes of prosecution.
    The Commerce Clause authorizes Congress to regulate commerce in order to ensure that the flow of Interstate Commerce Is FREE from Local Restraints Imposed by Various States, As with the State Of California “DOJ Firearms List” Monopoly. When Congress deems an act of Interstate Commerce to be in need of Supervision, it will enact legislation that must have some real and rational relation to the subject of regulation. Congress may constitutionally provide for the point at which subjects of Interstate Commerce become subjects of state law and, therefore, state regulation. Congress already regulates firearms interstate commerce by maintaining the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and federally licensing firearms dealers who sell firearms to American consumers from the firearms interstate commerce market, which is open to all firearms manufacturers.
    California AG Kamala Harris and the California State Legislature are in violation of Federal Anti Trust laws by creation and imposition of their firing pin microstamp scheme monopoly upon the California firearms consumer market while eliminating many manufacturers from the California firearms interstate commerce market which was, until imposition of their monopoly, open to all interstate and foreign commerce manufacturers.
    As equally important, To Illegally deny California Firearms consumers of their 2nd Amendment rights to purchase product from an open interstate product market and to bear firearms. Use of a created monopoly to destroy interstate commerce and to destroy citizens Constitutional guarantees by one or a group of conspirators are both subject to United States Code Penalties.
    What these politicians are doing is in violation of United States Constitutional Guarantees as well as violating Interstate Commerce Federal laws of The Sherman Anti Trust Act.

    Reply

  35. avatarVito says:

    I am sik and tired of having big brother in my life! what happen with the constitution? what happen with the second ammendment? What is happenig to my country?

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