United we stand? (courtesy Ryan Houston flikr.com)

TTAG reader Pascal writes:

United Van Lines has just released their move data. Unsurprisingly, there has been — and continues to be for the most part — a mass exodus from the Northeast. abc.go.com reports: “University of California, Los Angeles economist Michael Stoll said in the United Van Lines’ news release that business incentives, industrial growth and lower costs of living are attracting jobs and people to the West and Southeast.” Why is this gun-related? Those Northeast progressives and gun grabbers are moving to many gun friendly states in search of jobs. They bring themselves, their families and their anti-gun message along with them too. Sooooo if you’re one of the people living in gun-friendly states who believe they are safe — what happened to NY, NJ & CT will never happen in your state — well, think again. They are coming. And when they get there, they will try to change the politics as well as your gun laws.

206 Responses to Pascal: Anti-Gun Virus Spreading From Northeast Throughout the U.S.

  1. Miami Herald had a front page story about how Florida may soon surpass NY in population due to the mass exodus from the latter.

    • I’m a regular over at the Florida Hometown forum on ar15.com, and it’s amusing the clockwork regularity of the first couple comments every time someone posts a “I’m moving from Michigan/New York/New Jersey” thread. The immediate responses are all variations of “If you intend to move here and enjoy life as it is, welcome. If you bring bullshit northeast liberal politics with you, you are most decidedly unwelcome.”

        • You’d be surprised. I’ve seen quite a few people that are pro-gun for New York think that their version of pro-gun will fly in a free state.

        • One of those fun things about being a huge country comprised of diverse self identifying and governing populations (I’m a Texan, an Ohio-an, etc), a Texas Democrat ends up being more conservative than a New York Republican. I pray for the northern New Yorkers and Californians to throw off the yoke of their large cities, but their idea of freedom is a 10 day waiting period, a permission slip from the sheriff, and a spot on the confiscation list. Their ideas ain’t reasonable here, and compared to what they’ve been through the Manchin-Toomey compromise may seem like a godsend. Perhaps a 6-12 month wait while their freedom gauge re-calibrates would fix their PTS from their slave states. The only answer is to engage these transplants with a friendly welcoming party of neighbors to get them up to speed before voting season. A BBQ and gun shoot to let them know they crossed back into the US. We all do these things, there is nothing wrong with it, we’re all friends here and got each other’s back.

        • “You’d be surprised. I’ve seen quite a few people that are pro-gun for New York think that their version of pro-gun will fly in a free state.”

          Yeppers, I think everyone should be allowed to have a fifteen round mag! Though I draw the line at TWO of them and don’t even think of a sixteen rounder!

          (My impression of the sort of person you are thinking of.)

    • It’s absolutely happening in Pennsylvania, as it becomes a favored less-crowded less-expensive site for urban living dreams of ex-New Yorkers. My staunchly Republican suburban township just got moved into North-Northeast Philadelphia’s federal congressional district as more and more NYC dems move in. The state Republicans have written it off. Reading and Scranton have also filled up with New Yorkers, though of a different sort.

      I do think of pulling a reverse Californicate: Perhaps try to change the tide in one of the more recreational states that is under siege.

    • Read the report. NJ had the highest percentage of people moving (followed by NY, CT) at 63%. Of that 63% about 50% moved from NJ to PA.

    • Yep – If Allison Schwartz or Kathleen Kane become the next governor, then gun rights will be under assault like they never have been before in PA.

  2. This is how Colorado got all it’s In The News headlines lately. California had an Exodus of folks leaving and heading east. They brought their lust for lower taxes and more opportunity with them but also their desire for government control and protection as well as decidedly Liberal views on every thing else.

    Look at all the economic successes of the last few years. None are in Liberal Bastions of the Northeast or Left Coast. When jobs leave so do the job seekers but they don’t integrate they take over.

    • Neal Boortz calls them political kudzu, but that reference is more meaningful in the lowland swamps of the South than it is in the uplands of the continent.

  3. Just like most immigrants to the US: Flee a system they can no longer tolerate for the promise of something better here in the USA, then try to convert the new ‘promised land’ into the exact same thing they fled in the first place.

    • Reminds me of what Doug Stanhope said(paraphrasing):

      “What’s the point in visiting another country where everything is the same?”

      This was in reference to people complaining about how “weird” it is in other countries.

    • That’s right, paleface! Take your western civilization and shove it! These damn New Yorkers didn’t even bother to learn the local language, Munsee, and assimilate into Lenape native american society, and now these carpetbaggers are moving across the country!

      This is a nation of immigrants. If you believe “most immigrants to the US” have contributed nothing to our culture, you’re foolish. Almost all of us are descended from immigrants to this nation, don’t forget it. If anything I think my great-grandparents generation was overeager to assimilate, distancing themselves from their ethnic culture and not even teaching their children their native language. I think it’s best there’s a delicate balance of assimilating into the culture of where you live but remembering and honoring your heritage.

      As for this story, plenty of these emigrants from liberal places are friendly to conservative ideas, after all they’re choosing to live in such places. I’m from the most gun-hating place in the USA, where firearm confiscation from law-abiding citizens is the law! And I’m a gun guy for sure who intends to move the most libertarian state I can make a living in.

      • It truly makes me sad that so many people generalize Massachusetts to New Jersey as everything of the North East. Vermont, Maine and New Hampshire are pro 2A and CWL States that somehow get forgotten. There is a reason the the Free State Project exists and is successful here in NH.

        • Quite true. But consider that VT, NH & ME are somewhat unique in comparison to other northeast states. Unique in that they are predominantly rural and overwhelming white. Two critically important factors which create a gun friendly environment.

    • It may (or may not) be accurate for some specific groups of immigrants, but it definitely doesn’t apply in general. I’ve noticed that a lot of my fellow Russian immigrants, for example, tend to trend very much to the right in American politics.

  4. While it is a concern, I’m sure a decent portion of those moving are gun-owning refugees fleeing to freer climes…

      • Welfare recipients typically aren’t very mobile. They don’t generally move from state to state, and certainly it would be self-defeating to leave a progressive state (with more welfare programs) to move to a more conservative one.

        The ones we have to worry about are the well-to-do progressives, moving in search of jobs and bringing their bullshit politics with them, and that demographic generally has fewer offspring than the rural hicks.

    • There is hope. Even liberal dem New Yorkers who come to the Philadelphia suburbs are, at least to some degree, finding that a handgun is attractive, though not something to let friends know about. The numbers show it, none-the-less. An uptick in burglaries, some hot burglaries even, in the safest suburbs, gets people thinking a bit more practically. We are shall-issue and our PD does not fear gun owners, provided they seem helpful when the hunt is on for a fleeing burglar (inevitably day-tripping from the city). A license to carry firearms is the most reliable credential the PD can see trying to sort things out.

    • From Pascals article;
      “Those Northeast progressives and gun grabbers are moving to many gun friendly states in search of jobs.”

      I’m hoping that it’s northeast libertarians and conservatives who are moving to job friendly states in search of guns.

      • There is no breakdown given, while one can hope that is what is happening, many progressives who can do the math about their taxes and lack of jobs are moving too. Demographically, if the CT gold coast is any indication, it is mostly the middle class that is moving out. This leaves many gold coast towns with the very poor, the very old and the very old and rich. The problem with the last group is that they have heavy influence in town taxes and politics. They have no children, but many have moved out which have decimated schools funding but the old and rich but up a fight to have taxes raise and at the same time demand reduced taxes for themselves and also cause property values to rise because they refuse to move.

        Long term, the entire Northeast is screwed with an aging population, dwindling corporate tax base and increased demand on entitlements.

        If we are lucky, the entire Northeast goes bankrupt stunting their anti-gun agenda.

        Whatever the case, long term the Northeast is screwed.

        • I laugh. If my personal acquaintances are any guide, lots of the people in Westport and Greenwich are actually domiciled in Florida. What a game.

      • Funny thing, when I first got my motorcycle it felt like I had unlocked a long-sealed door and walked into a whole new part of my brain.

        Then I moved to Texas and got my first gun. Same damn feeling. Like it was a mystery appendage that decided to finally reveal itself to me.

        There’s hope for people with the will and gumption to look at their surroundings and circumstances, decide to change, then go through with that change. Like I tell my pinko friends, I’m being the change I want to see in the world, like Gandhi.

        • “I’m being the change I want to see in the world, like Gandhi.”

          Cool! I understand how reality works now, and I’m connected to “God Within.” And nobody’s going to believe me when I say where I found Her. Of course, I’m talking about the female half of Diety, the Mother of Everything, also known as the Divine Will. And She wants us to end the cycle of death and rebirth because every time somebody dies, Mother loses essence. And so it has to stop if life in general is to go on. To me, eternal life means “don’t die.” It will be probably ten or twenty years to find out if I’m successful on that one – obviously, I also have to learn how to rejuvenate myself, but I don’t have to work out the details – Spirit and Mother will do all that crap for me. All I have to do – what I’m supposed to do according to the Divine Plan, is have fun right now.
          http://rich_grise.tripod.com/cgi-bin/Universe.pl

          Of course I’m quite insane, but I’m harmless because I know I’m nuts but know how to behave in public. 😉
          I believe I’m Jesus’ crazy brother who got locked away in the basement 14,000,000,000 years ago and nobody’s been allowed to talk about.

          And I’ve still got the same old message – it’s about love. Love yourself more!

  5. Maybe.

    I am a NY native who migrated to NC.

    People have been saying that NC would inevitably turn blue with all the new comers. Instead it went the other way.

    I think there are a few factors you need to remember:

    1. Outmigrants from states like NY tend, other things being equal, to be fed up with their home state. I left NY partly due to the nanny state culture including gun regs. The last three families I knew that left were solidly pro 2A and for the last one, who left after the SAFE Act, the SAFE Act played some role in their decision (it was not the only factor, maybe more like a straw that broke the camel’s back);

    2. You have to look at where the migrants come from within their state. The outmigration from Upstate NY (which tends to be more conservative) has been enormous;

    3. They may change their destination state, but their destination state will change them as well.

    • Agreed. I left Syracuse 16 years ago because of the job and I could see where it was headed. Don’t be too quick to make the assumptions.

    • I tend to agree. I’m planning on leaving Maryland, not to export anti-gun attitudes, but in search of libertarian freedom.

      • +100000

        I live in Carrol County now, a political and cultural refugee from MoCo. But WV is where I will head eventually, even though they are much more socially conservative than I’d like. Still in my late 20’s so I got time to settle!

    • This is exactly what I am doing now. I leave Friday from upstate NY to NC. The business climate upstate is terrible and the company I previously worked for is losing sales and people quickly. The business I am starting at in NC is growing by leaps and bounds.

      I am a libertarian and feel like a minority in NY, so I am seeking out a place closer to how I think. I have been studying NC gun laws and I they are more limiting than I prefer, but we can work on that. Way better than NY. First thing I am doing is loading my 8th round into my 1911 and buying some Pmags! After I’m moved, I’m hoping I’ll have time to get a gun trust to get an SBR and suppressor.

  6. The reason this happens is a logical disconnect between their views and the results of those views. They literally have no idea why their home state went to Hell and honestly believe their statist views had nothing to do with it.
    The thing is, this stuff doesn’t change overnight. It takes years, often decades for the cruft to set in and for their statist, big government policies to bear fruit. If the consequences were more immediate we wouldn’t have this problem.

    • Jim R wrote, “They [Progressives fleeing Progressive states] literally have no idea why their home state went to Hell and honestly believe their statist views had nothing to do with it.”

      It is actually much worse than that Jim. They believe their home state went to Hell because they could not fully implement their statist views! That means they will try even harder to implement their statist bullsh!t.

      It is always the same thing with gun control. Proponents always argue that gun control has failed because they were not able to implement it fully.

  7. Liberals are like locusts. They devour the public treasury, destroy community traditions and morals, corrupt local politics with progressive ideas and erode where they live. When they have sucked dry all there is, they flee their dystopian existence to seek greener pastures (i.e. Red States) only to start the cycle again.

    Liberals never reflect on their own policies to see if what they are running from was their own doing. Liberalism is a mental disorder.

    • Yes, the Libs bring their idiocy with them wherever they go. Yes, they are mentally ill. When they spread like a parasite seeking a new host we all must pay attention to WHERE the vermin migrate. Look at what they have done to some of America’s greatest cities like Detroit.

      For a good read on Liberal mental illness, I suggest this:

      Based on strikingly irrational beliefs and emotions, modern liberals relentlessly undermine the most important principles on which our freedoms were founded,” says Dr. Lyle Rossiter, author of the new book, “The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness.” “Like spoiled, angry children, they rebel against the normal responsibilities of adulthood and demand that a parental government meet their needs from cradle to grave.”

    • >> they flee their dystopian existence to seek greener pastures (i.e. Red States)

      Ah, Red States, that paradise so close within reach! What’s not to like about lowest median income in the country, highest teen pregnancy rate, and sucking on the federal titty (i.e. being the net recipient of federal income transfers).

      • Let’s do the math on this one…

        A person in Texas makes $40,000. After Federal taxes he brings home $33,000.

        A person in New York make $75,000. After Federal, State, County, and City income taxes he brings home $35,000.

        Sure, the person in NY is still bringing home slightly more, but he is getting robbed of more of his intellectual and physical work to pay for the services he receives. This also does not account for the cost of living. The person in Texas can take his net pay and do a lot more with it than the person in New York. ]

        Average income is NOT an indicator or higher quality of living. You also need to realize that gross income and net income are two VERY different things. You can make $1,000,000 but if you are taxed at 95%, you still only bring home $50,000.

        Ah, the glories of the progressive income tax, eh comrade int19h? =)

        • Don’t forget that that Texan is likely paying at most $800/mo out of his net for a 1br apartment. How much is the NYCer paying?

          The math really doesn’t add up for folks in NYC unless they’re exceptionally wealthy (or subsidized by same) or exceptionally poor (and subsidized by the former).

        • “exceptionally wealthy (or subsidized by same) or exceptionally poor (and subsidized by the former).”

          I’m afraid you’ve been misled. Both of those classes are parastizing the working stiff class.

        • *shrug* The blue state that I live in doesn’t have state income tax. So I earn more than a Texan, and bring home more.

      • LOL, I used to. I think Savage is a very intelligent man and can say brilliant things. However, I no longer listen to him for 2 reasons…

        1. He is anti-gun. He has talked about the need for limiting magazine size and the merits of banning certain guns. He is a San Fran citizen after all.

        2. When I tune into talk radio I want to hear politics, not a story about what he had for dinner, where his dog pooped last night or an anecdotal about herbal medicine.

        If he would stick to politics and not talk about guns, I would listen more.

        • His foaming at the mouth rants unpleasantly remind me stylistically of a certain Famous Historical Figure… even as I sometimes have to agree with them.

  8. All those “Welcome to [State]” signs should say, “The Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms is NOT Infringed in [State]! If you hate guns, then KEEP THE HELL OUT!”

    • And Dallas County. Hell, half the Dallas city counsel are under investigation for various crimes by the FBI or Texas DPS. They are all Democrats and entrenched poverty pimps who claim to represent the downtrodden minorities but live in the lap of luxury on the public dime.

      Thank God I live in Tarrant County.

        • Of all the places to relocate in Texas, why did you choose the most liberal location Robert?

        • He’s from Boston and Rhode Island. Anything more Texas would throw him into shock. Better to take it one step at a time. With a daughter, high-end education had to be a factor. Having learned to fly at Ft. Wolters long ago, I found it pretty comfortable out in the Texas sticks. I was young. The only thing that really mattered then had a charming Texas accent.

        • Kirsten as in Kirsten Joy Weiss? I thought she was in Wyoming…seem to remember that being where most of her Sharp Shots videos have been filmed. It doesn’t get more gun friendly than Wyoming,although the winters there are pretty dern savage; Texas might be a step up in that sense.

          And having most of the TTAG brain trust in a central location would have its advantages.

          Myself, I’d take Wyoming over Texas any day. It’s a great state for gun people. And being high-mountain desert born and raised, I have a hard time acclimating to the kind of humidity that Texas summers seem to be made of. I’m no fan of bitter winters either, but I’d consider them be a fair trade for blissfully arid summers.

      • I’m in Austin five or six times per year, either on business or pleasure, for 3-4 days at a time. That’s not equivalent to someone living there, of course, but it’s not nothing. In my experience, Austin is pretty hit or miss on firearms stances. Between the state government employees and UT, drawing liberals from all across the country, it’s not exactly a pro-2A bastion.

        Now, Williamson County, immediately north of Travis County in which Austin is situated, is a whole other story. Just cross the county line and the difference in firearms attitudes between the two counties can be as stark as that between night and day. The differences within Austin and Travis County, however, are more like night and later that night.

    • Unscientifically, I’d say that the pinko contingent in Austin tends more towards the libertarian/anti-statist arm of pinkoism, at least among the pinkos I know.

      Califuckers and other locusts may change that balance, or at least they may try. Worst case, I’ll just be out east a ways, and happy enough to commute in and make my dough, then escape back to freedom.

  9. It’s not all of the Northeast, I wish people would stop generalizing that way. I live in northern New England and we are fighting the same battle, an invasion from the southern part. Be a little more specific, it’s Mass, RI, CT, NY and NJ. New Hampshire, most of Vermont and Maine are still doing OK.

  10. I’m a fairly laid back guy, but with all the media buzz going around of late with the approach of the deadline for registering guns and declaring magazines I’ve grown fairly irritated. When you read through the comment sections of this website and see gun owners who have lived their entire lives in a red state vilifying you, it actually gets me a little mad, and today’s post by Pascal was the last straw. It’s not to say they’re wrong, I believe that registration leads to confiscation, but they’ve got it pretty easy compared to those of us that live behind enemy lines. They’ve never had to try and convince an uninformed dealer in another state that they can legally sell you a product, or spend $300 just for the ability to purchase a shotgun. It’s easy to call us morons for voting in our current politicians (Trust me I didn’t vote for any of them) when you don’t have to worry about things like that. The truth is I registered my guns because it buys me time. If I want to relocate someplace that’s kinder to POTG, I need the time to save more money. The last thing I need is to get pinched for an unregistered gun, 10 years in prison in addition to losing my rights doesn’t help the cause, no matter how you look at it. Not everyone that lives in New England is a gun-grabber, or for that matter a Fudd. So while some of you may call me idiot, do me a favor. The next time you walk into your LGS, count your blessings, because some of us are spending a great deal of time and treasure to be able to enjoy the view you were born into.

    • My thoughts and prayers go out to you. I hope you can move out soon. No one blames you, we know you are outnumbered.

    • I spent many years move in between California and Arizona. I have say differences the people live Arizona defend there guns rights with there vote the gun owner California would get mad they had lost gun right than they would not vote stop lose any more there gun rights they just stay mad expect fact live there . They seem place there hope in fact that some one else would come long give them back the gun right they have lost which never happen so far. I have say California politicians very sneaky they quietly try pass ant gun bills which know no one knows about untill to late stop them. One reason I am glade I no long have keep move back California my home now just Arizona. California and New York are where get politicians like Nancy Pelosi Chuck Schumer to most ant gun politicians you well ever met.

    • I feel your pain, brother. For the voters who choose “free stuff” politicians who come with a statist anti-self-defense agenda, well, I feel the pain-in-the-ass.

      Sign up, save up, ship out.

    • Thanks for the comment. It’s hard for most people to see through the other side of the window, especially when the climate is so completely “through the looking glass” from what we’re accustomed to. The stuff that y’all deal with on a daily basis is just completely out of the realm of reasonable possibility for many of us, so it’s not that we don’t have sympathy, it’s that it’s hard to have sympathy when you have effectively no comprehension. You can’t feel bad if you don’t “get it.”

    • Chris, I strongly recommend, if you haven’t yet, that you read “Atlas Shrugged” by Ayn Rand.

      “Who is John Galt?” He (the Ayn Rand character) is possibly the first version of the term, “If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.”

      There comes a point in a democracy where you can no longer effect the outcome due to being outvoted by Liberals and Socialists and Progressives. At that point every moment you spend under their control only strengthens them and weakens you. Do not be a victim! The solution is, unfortunately, to “Go Galt” and leave them to implode without your support. Then go back, pick up the pieces, and rebuild.

      • Various prominent Randists have been calling people to “go Galt” for a long time now, but surprisingly few actually do so. And of those who do, somehow, the world never actually notices their absence.

        It’s as if the fairy tale of superhuman capitalist heroes that is “Atlas Shrugged” is just that, a fairy tale – and both its characters and its story do not have any close correspondence in real life.

    • I’m not counting any blessings because our firearms freedoms in Texas aren’t the result of blessings we’ve been born into. They come about through nonstop work at every level of government and day-to-day personal interactions (proselytization?) with those we encounter year in and year out. Put bluntly: we earn it every day. I get that it’s rough going in the slave states, but it wasn’t always that way. POTG there allowed it to happen. They should have fought back harder and sooner to preserve what they were born into.

      For example, Wendy Davis, the new liberal darling in Texas and a candidate for governor in 2014, is on record with serious anti-firearms freedom positions. She’s already stated that as Governor she would sign a bill mandating background checks at gun shows. Now, the vast majority of gun sales at gun shows are by FFL’s who already must conduct a NICS check; but the intention is clear: expanding that to all gun sales in Texas and effectively banning private firearms sales. As a state Senator, she’s voted against allowing licensed concealed carry on campuses. When she was on the Fort Worth City Council, she sought to ban gun shows on city-owned property, i.e., the convention centers.

      An elected leader proposing to bar undesirable parties from public property should send a chill down everyone’s spine, just as much as if she’d said undesirable races of people shouldn’t be allowed in certain public schools. These are the people we fight back all of the time to maintain our firearms freedom in Texas. It’s not a blessing we find neatly tucked under our pillows in the morning.

  11. I know how feel here in Arizona there seem be flood people from California move here try there best change state in one they just move from but thank god people here have said hell no that. After all we have enough issue have federal government push there agendas down are throats here.

  12. It is why, over time, I fear our way of life is doomed.

    The leftists are having more kids then we gun lovers are.Sure, there are gun owners in anti rights states and cities, but their numbers are few compared to the nanny state multitudes.

    As time goes on,more and more people will move and bring their anti gun cultures with them.Those voters will have kids, who will grow up to consider the strict new laws to be a normal thing .And so the cycle continues, until you get New York State.

    • You got to be kidding. Leftist don’t have kids, they have abortions. (repeated below). The census data shows the bluer the state, the lover the birthrate. When you get to places like San Francisco, New York, Boston, or DC only the welfare queens have children.

        • This is how Detroit happened. Everybody who can, moves. Everybody who can’t afford to is, well, often as not a welfare queen, at least in their voting style.

        • Apparently, you are unaware that more “whites” are on social assistance than those “ethnic people.” Someone hasn’t been to the Ozarks and Appalachia.

        • HK fan, those are raw numbers, not percentages of the various ethnic groups. Rural Arkansas can’t cause a Detroit to happen in Baltimore or Philadelphia. In fact poor rural people can’t cause much of anything to happen except agriculture.

        • Apparently, you are unaware that more “whites” are on social assistance than those “ethnic people.” Someone hasn’t been to the Ozarks and Appalachia.

          Have you ever met a redneck who was _for_ gun control? At least, gun control for white people?

          Now, gun control for the darkies, that’s an entirely different matter!

      • yes, keep using these epithets and stereotypes and you’ll certainly win over new demographics of individuals we desperately need if we want to keep whatever gun rights we have right now. Keep it up, idiot.

        • Crime will provide us with the people we need, and some inclusiveness. We’ve already appealed for years for the support of inner-city non-criminals. In my nearest inner city, 3 miles away, 19 precincts cast not a single vote for Romney. They cast almost no votes for any congressman but their current one. Perhaps they’ll eventually recruit themselves to the cause? Not if it requires a choice of platforms en toto.

      • Of course, it’s not the birthrate by itself that does it. It’s urbanization. Statistically speaking, people who live in the cities are left-leaning, and those in the country are right-leaning. The city is in fact replenished by children of people from the country coming to it, but they don’t actually bring much of their culture with them – and even if they do, their children will almost certainly be urbanites through and through, no matter how they’re raised.

        Simply put, cities and their metro areas today are where wealth and fortune is for most people, so people tend to be drawn there. And once there, they take on the political culture of the place, which is left. Conservative parents could all convert to being “quiverfull” wholesale, and it wouldn’t change a thing.

  13. I am one of those who fled Maryland to Texas due to MDs liberal policies including gun control. I am conservative and hope to keep Texas conservative.

  14. A more frightening demographic is the number of immigrants from gun-hating countries. They’re more free here than they were there, so not having access to firearms means nothing to them. And they are well-indoctrinated in statism and gun-hating to boot.

        • Vietnam.
          It occurs to me though that my good friends who are Turkish (a pretty, but not totally, restrictive country) have fallen in love with the 2A as well.

        • @Peter, I suspected she was from Asia by your comment. From my personal observation, Vietnamese, Korean and other Asian people are far from anti-gun, and they are deeply committed to defending themselves, their families and their property. I only wish that more of them were here.

    • My mom was a immigrant from France. She personally didnt like guns but she understood why it was important for citizens to have the right to bear arms. She told me stories how after France fell to the Nazis, the first thing they did was to search homes for gold and guns.

    • One of my best buds from a prior job is a Polish immigrant, and LOVES guns. He’s old enough to remember living under Communism, and has heeded its lessons well.

  15. Since I’m retired with a paid-up house, I’m thinking of selling, setting up a PO Box in a state to my liking, and driving through what’s left of America. The pros keep piling up and the cons are diminishing. New Mexico sounds pretty sane. Or the Nevada mountains…

    • Northern NM is very pretty, but economically blighted. Some of their towns are also pretty corrupt, and if you’re not of Mexican decent, you’ll get to see this corruption up close and personal.

      Central/northeastern NV is very quiet, and due to gold (and other mining) economically pretty well off, much better than northern NM.

    • Not that it matters, but I’d pick Flagstaff or Prescott, AZ, over northern New Mexico, for some of the reasons Dyspeptic sited. I love the Taos area, but you have to be prepared either to be an outsider and careful, or get connected some way. Northern AZ is a different world. The politics of resentment thrives in New Mexico. Salt Lake, Sandy, parts of Utah are very good, but I’m a skiier, and thus biased.

      • ” The politics of resentment thrives in New Mexico. ”
        Lord, yes. I had to learn of things like “envidia” and “movida”. New Mexico, northern New Mexico, that is, seems to thrive on that stuff.

        “Envidia” is often defined in terms of “envy”, but that’s not quite it. “Movida” is a plot, and the deeper it is, the longer it takes to unfold, the more it is appreciated. By evil people who have time for such shit.

  16. The situation was bad enough that here in Wyoming, the county offices have created a little multi-page pamphlet describing the western rural culture for these sophisticated urbanites who have beshat themselves upon us rustic hicks and simpletons.

    These pamphlets contain bits of knowledge of which, apparently, the urban sophisticates know nothing. Some examples:

    – Hay is baled at night. So if you would like to keep horses, expect to hear hay balers operating at night if you want to buy hay.

    – Horses, cows, sheep, et al poop. And poop attracts flies. If you don’t want flies, you’ll have to drop all those pretentious, tedious twaddle about living the holistic, organic life and get yourself some pesticides.

    – Yes, we have Bald Eagles, Golden Eagles, etc in the area, sometimes in great profusion. If you own a barking dustmop of a dog, or cats you allow outside, then don’t be surprised if they are hoisted skywards for breakfast/lunch/dinner. One solution is to keep your “dog” inside. Another solution is to get a “real dog.”

    – Come harvest times, you’ll be tooling down the road and you’ll meet large farm equipment on the road. If you try to pass this farm equipment at the wrong point on the road, you’re going to have a bad time. A really bad time.

    – Sometimes we have snow. Sometimes we have lots of snow. On those days, lots of folks choose to go nowhere. Sometimes, we’ll close the roads. No, you can’t call the WHP and tell them to re-open the road just for you. When it closes, it’s closed. Go back to town, get a room, wait at the coffeeshop, whatever.

    – People burn stuff around here. Old trees, slash piles, old rotten hay, etc. Get over it.

    – Oh, and lots of people burn coal for heat, too. Get over that, too.

    – People shoot stuff around here, hunting season or not. So don’t get your lace panties in a bunch if you hear gunfire.

    – People own guns around here. Lots of guns. Don’t be calling the 5-0 every time you see a gun.

    And on and on and on.

    Fortunately for us, Wyoming’s winters get rid of most of these clowns.

      • Yes. For reals. I’m paraphrasing with some more color, but the pamphlets are for real, and they cover these issues I’ve stated (and more). The issues about water rights I’ve left out, but they’re very, very real here in the western states. As are the issues about fence-out rather than fence-in on livestock. City slickers are forever whinging about free-roaming cattle.

        Available at county offices in several counties in the state.

        The area where Jackson is probably isn’t one of them, tho.

    • Personally I enjoyed my time in the Dakotas. I could get away from people and pretty much do whatever the Hell… And if you did a stupid, you paid the consequences. All in all a good time in my life. I guess it’s different now.

    • Wait… Wyoming? Why the #$@% would a guy from some urban location go to Wyoming of all places? I have always thought that it’ll probably be the last conservative state/reservation in US.

      Or are they the “commune with nature” hippie kind?

  17. They come like locusts, leaving the barren wastelands their own preferred policies MUST lead to, finding new and promising land and resources. Only to implement the same failed policies before laying waste once again. Then moving on. Locusts.

  18. It’s not all of the Northeast that’s insane but we are becoming
    that way. For instance as Massachusetts cranks up the crazy,
    more “semi”-progressives leach their way into Maine, NH and
    Vermont. The frustrating part is that the Massholes that come
    up instantly start campaigns to enact the same laws that made
    them leave Mass. in the first place.

  19. Organize and fortify your state constitutions. Include language making it clear that the state has no authority to restrict firearms and refusing to recognize federal authority if you can manage it. Maybe after it’s done raise the bar for state amendments.

    • I’ve had this thought myself: strong 2A states need to amend their state constitutions to unequivocably state what restrictions will be forever prohibited, as laws are easily passed, but the odds that the other side would be able to amend said constitution some day in the future would be low.

      • Be sure to write personal self-defense as one of the rationales for any 2A-lookalike. It’s short and clear and uncontroversial, but long-term it carries a whole host of benefits: it cements the case for shall-issue carry, prevents a ban on a large class of firearms (esp. handguns), and makes it hard for antis to argue based on the “collective right” perspective.

        Though the Maine version is probably the sweetest:
        “Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned.”

        • Colorado’s is longer but boils down to the same thing. Even the “call into question” is there.

          Article 2 Section 13. Right to bear arms. The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question; but nothing herein contained shall be construed to justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons.

          It didn’t help.

    • There are plenty of states with state constitutions that include language making it clear that the state HAS the authority to restrict firearms. Connecticut is NOT one of them.
      Connecticut: Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state. Art. I, § 15 (enacted 1818, art. I, § 17). The original 1818 text came from the Mississippi Constitution of 1817.[Self-defense right explicitly protected.]
      Considered to be the amongst the strongest language in defense of the second amendment. That hasn’t prevented the legislature from passing what they want anyways.

  20. The refugees are probably pro and anti gun in proportion to the general population. I would actually think that the mix is more progun than the general population of the sending states. Here’s why. the worst antigunners are “urban sophisticates” who prefer the big NE and West Coast urban centers. Living in Omaha or even Denver isn’t very appealing to them. I also think that anti-gunners tend to be less mobile than progunners. A number of people cite Colorado as an example. I think that’s a mistake. It is true that recent out migrants from California have turned Colorado light blue but as we can see by the recall election that these voters are blue for reasons other than gun control. We are likely to see the Republicans recapture the legislature even if statewide elections continue to put Democrats in these offices. You might see a situation like Virginia where the Democrats win by a few thousand votes at the state level and face a huge Republican majority in legislature.

    Anti-gunners do not outbreed progunners. Antigunners have abortions, not kids.

    • Virginia has seen the state politics influenced by the transient population of DC. Due to the current political party affiliation there, they move into Northern Virginia and work in DC. Because of the recent gubernatorial elections being bought by Michael Dumberg and going over to the dark side, we are hopeful the 2 libtard senators Warner and Kaine will be replaced on their next round, and that the state legislature is held with a conservative majority.

      • I don’t disagree, I just find this restatement unnecessary and laced with traffic increasing intent. Exodus from crime, poverty and corruption ridden liberal urban centers makes the receiving state more corrupt and more poverty ridden and therefore more in need of “saving” via welfare and militarized police forces why do we need to keep saying it.

    • As I said in another post, it’s Saturday of a tween-holiday weekend. There’s just not much going on. We’ve even dropped back to an every-other-hour schedule this week for the most part. If what is being published doesn’t suit you, feel free to take a week off, or send in something original of your own for the edification of us all.

      • I can’t think of a better way to let the holiday hangover slip away. I’ve got to get my resistance up for New Year’s. And I’ve got a settlement offer out that I don’t even want to think about. They might take it.

      • Harry Reid has been a Jack Mormon in Southern Nevada for, well, forever. His specialty is gaming the BLM conversion of land for developers in the Vegas area, who provide him with millions in campaign money. His power base is propped up by the outlandish nepotism enjoyed by his spawn in Vegas city or Clark County offices.

        I’ve met the man several times. He wasn’t some brilliant light of legal acumen “back in the day” – he’s been a pretty dim bulb from the first time I met him in the mid-90’s.

        • The BLM conversion game has been played several times to great effect by Earl Holding, whom I watched go from a chiselled western look to a grandfatherly Olympics look. I’m green with envy, frankly. Is it a mormon thing? Maybe it’s just a key play in the west, given the land ownership.

        • Didn’t realize Mr. Holding had passed on this year. I suppose his daughters are completely running the show in Sun Valley now. Not much of a change, really. I admired him. From humble beginnings and “Little America” and onward. Sat next to him at the Christmas ice show many years ago and learned a few things. What a world.

  21. We’ll also get more converts, though.

    Although, there won’t be nearly enough of those that can actually be (at least mostly) cured of the mental disorder that is modern Neo-Liberalism to off-set the influx of deluded Statist sock puppets.

  22. Everyone I know, myself included, who left New Jersey and New York did so precisely because of how restrictive those states have become. Not just to our rights, but to our jobs and economy. It’s not all doom and gloom.

  23. I live in the northeast, and am in the planning stages of moving south or west…. to escape the crazies.. some of us are gunnies, and just want to live amongst like minds!

  24. Too bad that we cant ban liberals in states like New York and California from moving to other states. They voted for people who made their state unlivable, they should be forced to stay in the mess they created. Don`t come and pollute free states with your big government ideas

  25. I use to live in both NY and CT and NEVER wanted to export those restrictive guns laws. After moving to the Midwest I realized that gun control is open season for criminals.

  26. Yes Sir, we are leaving MD ASAP. We just got our tax statement for the farm, they lowered the values and gave us a tax break to boot. Don’t matter we are getting the hell out. I am so sick of the corruption. And lies, I am going to go with WV even if I have to walk away from this house and live in a campground.

  27. Sadly, even Montana (the last best place, as they say) is being polluted with the likes of self-righteous Californians, and obnoxious Northeastern troglodytes, each with their own flavor of “we know better than you silly proles” statism.

  28. We’ve been dealing with that crap in FL for decades. First it was S FL. Miami/Ft. Lauderdale, etc. As it moved north along the east coast it also spread west. Naples, Ft. Myers, then up to Tampa. Then it started infecting inland areas. Orlando, and even into Ocala environs. As that was happening, the Cuban/Hispanic explosions in S FL started displacing many of those who originally came from up north and they started their own second migration north as well. Gainesville has always had the “northern element” thinking due to the University of FL. Pockets of that also infest Jacksonville, Tallahassee (my home), and Pensacola. It’s a constant struggle here to maintain that “southern style” as the infestation grows and political weight shifts. I’m just thankful I grew up when and where I did, made it to my 60’s and won’t have to put up with this crap much longer.

    • We could take them shooting, but then have to feed and clothe them, provide transportation, firearms, ammo, and listen to how unmanly we are to have to depend on guns to start with. Only thing liberals need for possible self defense is insults and a cell phone to call in sightings of anybody that may have a gun, (anybody that does not look like another liberal, they can tell), anything that resembles a gun, or, unlawful use of thumb and forefinger to make a gun. { I personally do not depend on my firearms, unless there is no other way out. Even so, it has not come to that in a lot of years. I still have a jack and spare tire in my vehicle too, even tho I have not had a flat in a few years either}.

  29. Yep these Carpet-Baggers are slowly killing Wisconsin, Florida is probably 10 years away from switching sides for good; so are a lot of other formerly friendly states; its a cancer that must be fixed in the schools and our culture. Its a culture war and we are losing. We need to find a message that the general-low information voter public will accept and we need to run with it, we need it in Social media and somehow in the Schools or else we will be Australia in a generation.

  30. From NYC and just want to get out of this mass government anti freedom shit hole of a state that will soon be Detroit.

    So if you see me moving south the only thing id want to change in your state is less shitty pizza and less shitty chinese.

  31. My poor hometown of Charleston, SC and it’s surrounding environs has long ben in decline. Charleston’s been discovered and every democrat/liberal Yankee I meet wants to retire there. And they are coming. Driving up the housing prices and pushing out the traditional folks with their ever increasing goverment ideas. Some have even gotten into politics. Yes, they have come to save us poor un-enlighted rubes with their progressive ideas. Because they can’t leave well enough alone. They have this inner mission to “fix” things. Never once thinking that the high taxes and crime ridden states they are fleeing is what they are trying to create, yet again.

    But what I am sick of is people complaining about it and then when voting time comes, saying that won’t participate in the process for whatever reason. We still out number them in the south. They real question is what will it take to reclaim our states and cities? An will it be too late when it happens? I see more poeple preparing for the economic and social collapse than I know at the voting booth.

  32. Being from NY I can say that not everybody voted for these asshats we have in office. Most of these morons were voted in by the large city residents. We have fought the good fight to overturn the safeact, but what prevents these leeches from passing another law that is just as bad or worst? Most of the people leaving here are strongly pro 2A, and are moving to a free state. We are hoping to move within 3 years. And we will be bringing our love of the Constutition to whatever state is lucky enough to have us.

  33. Immigrants dragging politics to the left isn’t always the case.

    http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/reshaping-the-right-how-right-wing-emigrants-conquered-north-idaho/Content?oid=2883474

    “It was part of a much larger pattern: Increasingly mobile Americans were deliberately seeking out communities that reinforced their own social and political values. Elsewhere, conservative emigrants helped push certain suburbs of Boise; Denver; Colorado Springs, Colo.; Salt Lake City; and Phoenix further to the right, while liberals relocated to urban centers and college towns. The shift had a polarizing effect: In 1976, less than one-quarter of Americans lived in counties that voted overwhelmingly–by more than a 20 percent margin–for either presidential candidate. By 2004, nearly half of Americans did.”

  34. I wish folks would make the distinction between NYS and NYC. 2 differant worlds really. Sadly though NYC controls who gets elected and the rest of the state suffers.

    I live around Rochester,most of my friends,neighbors,co workers own guns ,have carry permits,hang deer in our yards…. I practice with my bow in my suburban yard from a tree stand in the front yard,or off my roof. Nobody cares,they walk by and wave.

    We have full carry permits no classes to take And I have never in 30 years of carring saw one sign at a business saying no guns allowed.

    Granted the safe act has been a game changer, that too came from downstate…..

  35. I know that I’m seeing way too many NJ, NY, CA, IL plates in TX for my liking. They need to make it so that they can’t vote in local and state elections until they have in-state residence for at least 5 years.

  36. I’m not sure what to make of this.

    If some number of anti-gun people move from an anti-gun state to a pro-gun state, then yes, that makes the pro-gun state relatively less pro-gun, but also makes the anti-gun state relatively less anti.

    Also, if anti’s can move around and spread their ideas, why can’t pro-gun people too?

    • Because pro-gun people have no reason to move to the liberal areas. Taxes tend to be higher, cost of living higher, crime rates higher, jobs fewer and tolerance for non-liberal views nonexistent. It would be like a sane person trying to move into an asylum hoping their mere presence would spread sanity amongst the inmates. It won’t happen.

  37. It has long been the case that the liberals will flee the wreckage they have made of once great cities and states then begin the process all over again in whatever new place they infect. They do not seem capable of understanding that it is their sickness that leads to ruin, or perhaps they do. At any rate, like locusts they ravage one place then move on to the next and the next. It is rather a pity the civilized parts of the country can’t close their border and protect themselves.

  38. This “liberalization” is not always the result of PRCa transplants moving to a conservative state. Idaho used to elect relatively “conservative” Democrats – Sen. Frank Church comes to mind. Then in 1991, when the PRCa passed their AWBan, a bunch of Californians started moving to Idaho – the Idaho Dems were thrilled, because they thought this meant they would get a majority in the state legislature. Turns out that the new immigrants were conservatives ESCAPING the PRCa, and Idaho went from a 55/45 Rep/Dem split in the legislature to a 81% conservative Republican majority. The Dems started running as “moderate” Republicans (Idaho had open primaries, so the Dems could vote in the Rep primaries for the “moderates”), so the Republican Party in Idaho closed their primaries and required that you register as a Republican to vote in the GOP primary. This weeded out a bunch of libs who didn’t want to show up in the registrations as Republicans. Result of all this: 81% Republican legislature, and ALL of the statewide elected offices in Idaho are Republican.

    We are now in the process of weeding out the remaining “moderates”. As one who escaped the PRCa in 2004, I will guarantee people like me know EXACTLY what happens when you let the Dems take over a state. We tend to think that the old-line, Idaho “moderate” Republicans should be tossed out as soon as possible. We “extremist” right-wing Republicans have also taken over most of the local GOP precinct offices, and we set policy for the GOP candidates. Plus we did a great job of rearranging the voting districts after the 2010 census to get rid of a few old-line “moderates”.

    Our general political policy can be best summed up as No Compromise/Take No Prisoners. We are doing our best to make Idaho an unattractive place for a liberal to relocate.

  39. I’m a Kalif. native who moved to Arizona MOSTLY because of the 2ndA issue, 18 years ago. Never regretted it for a number of reasons. Strange things tho’………the only vocal anti-gun attitudes I encounter here seem to come mostly from locals; and that from a small number. Most people seem to move here because of a job offer or to retire or because they don’t freeze their asses off in the winter. Me personally, I find myself kind of apathetic regarding guns at times simply because in all the time I’ve been here, carrying a gun, owning guns, shooting, etc. are simply a natural part of the scene here. Hell, you can carry without a permit here! We even have a ‘State Gun’ like other states have a State Flower. Go figure!

    • What is the state Fire Ant? 😉

      I….. am…. posting…………………………..too………………………….quickly! Must………………. slow…………………………….dowwwwwn…………………………

        • I knew it all along! In northern NM, there were no Fire Ants, but we had Harvester Ants, nasty bite, but not as much as Fire Ants. And a weird kind of recluse spider, the Desert Recluse, lived in a bush outside my bedroom window. Bites feel like a 120 volt AC shock (for 90 minutes!), but no permanent damage. Sort of pretty spiders, though. We had small Tarantulas, mind their own business. And, I’m told, scorpions, but I never saw one.

  40. God bless that we now have Trump. Obama, go back to Kenya you damn Muslim. Take your anti-America family with you.

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