Firearms Storage Laws? What About Military Seepage?

 Stolen guns (courtesy The FBI)

Under the banner of “gun safety,” the gun control industrial complex lobbies for firearms registration, weapon and magazine restrictions, mandatory firearms training and “safe storage laws”—anything that can delay or deny Americans their natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms. It’s the latter that’s the most insidious. Who can be against requiring gun owners to store their firearms safely? Do it for the children! Truth be told, safe storage laws “invite” the government into your home. “We need to inspect your gun storage”—without notice. It’s for the children! Don’t laugh. It’s already the law in the UK and Australia. What really grinds my gears: the same governments that want to check my safe storage fail to maintain their own. Check this out . . .

Ever had that cold, panicky feeling of looking down and realising you have no idea where your sidearm is? Ever woken up one day to find the anti-tank missiles under your command are no longer where you left them? There are people out there to whom these memories are very real. Military equipment worth millions of dollars goes missing each year and the scale of these losses are often staggering.

There’s the wind-up [via defenseiq.com]. Here’s the pitch re: Uncle Sam’s lack of military mindfulness . . .

The US has also had to pull its socks up when it comes to tracing its belongings. A 2007 Pentagon audit found major gaps in the tracking system of US military equipment being used to assist the transition of Iraqi security forces. Less than 13 per cent of contracted equipment, including armoured vehicles and weapons, had a sufficient paper trail for purchase and delivery. The command unit could not account for 18 of 31 recovery vehicles, 6 of 18 waste disposal trucks and 2,126 of 2,943 generators.

While improvements have been made over the ensuing six years, 2013 has thrown up a number of high-profile cases in need of consideration. This past summer, a sting was undertaken on active and former Marines attempting to sell off high-end equipment intercepted through the supply chain of their base in California. A spokesman with the San Diego District Attorney told a press conference that “it’s a very big system, it’s a complex system, and as you can see, some of these items can fall through the cracks.”

Meanwhile, US military equipment being stored in Libya was stolen in raids by criminal groups believed to be aligned with terrorist organisations. M4 rifles and night-vision equipment were among the haul from a training base, leading to not only a cost-incursion but a very real operational risk, forcing the American personnel present to be pulled from their mission.

This tale of lost firepower—the tip of the proverbial iceberg—doesn’t include the dozens of stories we encounter of guns stolen from local, state and federal SWAT teams (including the FBI) and police departments, nor the lack of controls on confiscated firearms and buy-back booty.

Nor the hundreds of thousands of guns Uncle Sam’s sold to Latin American countries knowing full well that a large percentage will go walkies. Or the thousands of guns that were bought by drug thugs using FBI money under the supervision of the ATF (i.e. Operation Fast and Furious).

Basically, the government has no business telling gun owners how to store firearms (and anti-tank missiles) until it gets its own shit together. Less profanely, as Isaiah said to Hezekiah in Kings, get your own house in order before you complain about me misplacing things in mine. Or something like that.

comments

  1. avatar jay1975 says:

    We issued brand new Glock 17’s and Chinese made AK’s to the Iraqi police. Big Army didn’t keep track of serial numbers, just the raw numbers. We created a spread sheet and tracked each weapon by serial number and inspected them each month locally. We passed on the data to our relief unit, but I doubt if they continued on. We found out that some of the IP’s were selling their Glocks and ammo on the street and a few insurgents were found with them. Just another winning strategy from the Generals.

    1. avatar Samuel Suggs says:

      Yeah those glocks really turned the tide of the conflict, too.

  2. avatar J Mike says:

    The government could offer a $500 safe-storage tax credit to encourage folks to invest in gun safes. I’d be okay with that. I’d also be okay with a tax credit for any firearm safety courses they’d like me to take.

    1. avatar Jack says:

      The last time I bought a gun safe locally in WA, there was no sales tax. Apparently, that’s to encourage people to store their guns safely. That was a pleasant surprise.

    2. avatar racer88 says:

      Not me. My freedoms and rights are not for sale… not at any price.

      1. avatar Aragorn says:

        Storing weapons and ammo safely is not about rights but common sense.
        You are not even on the same page let alone topic.

        If the Feds wanted to give me a $500 credit towards a good safe I would
        have no problem. It would more than likely come out of taxes I pay so getting
        some back to secure weapons and ammo would be a smart move.

        1. avatar notgiven says:

          Except when you claim that tax credit, your de-facto registering as a gun owner.

        2. avatar miserylovescompany says:

          notgiven,

          Point taken, but you have to agree that they most likely already know this fact before you purchased a safe.

          Tom

        3. avatar Tom says:

          Notgiven,

          So they couldn’t already figure that out by the paperwork and taxes paid when I buy a gun from my FFL?

          A tax credit toward a safe is a good idea. That isn’t asking for a gun tax or forcing anyone to register their guns. Taking a tax credit is voluntary.

          The only really reasonable argument against such a credit is that tax dollars would be going to pay for something gun owners should be doing as a matter of responsibility. That is a policy debate about if this is an important enough issue to put tax dollars to though. Personally I’d say yes if it keeps even a few “guns stolen” stories, or “bad thing done with stolen gun” out of the news.

        4. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

          Notgiven,

          “Except when you claim that tax credit, your de-facto registering as a gun owner.”

          Do you have a concealed carry license?

          -You’re a gun owner.

          Do you have a hunting license?

          -You’re a gun owner.

          Have you ever gone through the background check system to purchase a gun?

          -You’re a gun owner.

          Have you ever purchased guns or ammo with a credit card? There is a copy of that somewhere.

          -You’re a gun owner.

          Are you a member of the NRA or GOA?

          -You’re a gun owner.

          Ever post pictures of yourself on FB with guns or make pro-gun posts?

          -NSA spying anyone, you’re a gun owner.

          There are lots of de-facto gun registries already in place, I don’t think giving a credit to people buying a gun safe would be the tipping point on a de-facto registry.

    3. avatar J- says:

      I have a similar idea myself that I posted on this site. I’d make the purchase of a DOJ approved safe storage container a tax deductible expense.

  3. I stored my unloaded ar and silencer safely. Both were inside a locked hard case, but the cops still seized it and opened it w/o a warrant.

    RF approved if the seizure and criminal charges pending against me.

    1. Leonard what IS your problem? I am not your enemy. I am a 2a absolutist. Absolutely. And I have no idea what you’re talking about.

      1. avatar Gyufygy says:

        Nobody paid attention to him in the past 15 minutes. Can’t let that continue.

        1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

          Yeah. He or she keeps mentioning RF for this or that, when I read the opposite.
          Very odd.

        2. Just pointing out RF’s hypocrisy.

      2. avatar rawmade says:

        Huh? What hypocrisy?

      3. In response to me legally open carrying a locked and cased unloaded rifle you had the following to say,

        “I open carried in Rhode Island…[b]ut I’m not an idiot.” RF

        “[O]pen carrying a modern sporting rifle through a city wearing a bullet-resistant vest is meshugah and asking for it. And I’m not sure it matters what “it” is.” RF

        RF you are anti-2A. Someone who believes in the right to bear arms would not make such a comment.

        1. avatar rawmade says:

          Its not anti 2a to call walking down the steet in a city in a bulletproof vest with a rifle dumb.
          Its your right but its still dumb.
          Its ridiculous to seriously call anyone who doesn’t agree anti 2a.
          I fully agree it was your right to do what you did, but that doesnt change the fact its dumb to do it and act how you acted

        2. You have the right to your opinion, but if the 2A right is recognized there is no reason to suggest that exercising of it is idiotic or that the person exercising the right should receive whatever punishment the cops decide to deal out. Someone who would suggest that is anti-2A.

      4. avatar Jus Bill says:

        This troll is an idiot. Stop feeding him.

    2. avatar Matt in FL says:

      Thinking the charges are BS and thinking you’re kinda dumb for how you go about things are not mutually exclusive.

      It’s not rocket surgery to see that the charges are (or should be) bogus, nor to see that you are your own worst enemy.

      I don’t want you to go to jail for what you (allegedly) did, but I do want you to stop inflicting your stupid on me.

      1. You’re another anti-2a person.

        1. avatar Alaskan Patriot says:

          Here you go running your mouth making false claims…

          What exactly makes him, or Robert, or anybody else on this site anti-2nd Amendment? I assume you’re not blind, you can in fact see what kinds of posts are published on this website?

          You’re not doing yourself any favors by making baseless accusations. If ever one needed a definition of “man child,” I’d be inclined to direct their attention to your behavioral record on these pages.

          Grow up, stop acting like an infant, deal with what needs to be dealt with, and get on with your life.

        2. avatar Gyufygy says:

          No, he’s another anti-“Leonard Embody posting whiny, self-absorbed, attention-seeking bullshit” person.

        3. avatar Matt in FL says:

          I’d like the same citation as RF requested, under the same conditions.

          However, I have a condition of my own to add. If you fail to provide either RF or myself with the citations requested, I’m going to lobby that all your posts go to moderation from now on. Any comments that are germane to the topic at hand will be posted quickly, while any comments that are off-topic and exist only to poke at someone (like basically every one of your last two dozen) will be circular-filed.

          How’s that sound?

        4. In response to me legally open carrying a locked and cased unloaded rifle RF had the following to say,

          “I open carried in Rhode Island…[b]ut I’m not an idiot.” RF

          “[O]pen carrying a modern sporting rifle through a city wearing a bullet-resistant vest is meshugah and asking for it. And I’m not sure it matters what “it” is.” RF

          RF is anti-2A. Someone who believes in the right to bear arms would not make such a comment.

        5. avatar Matt in FL says:

          I don’t give a sweet fuckall about Robert. He can fight his own battles.

          My request was (and remains) that you provide citations for your statement that I am “another anti-2A person.”

        6. Without spending the time looking up quotes from your blog posts, how about this, “The funny thing is, I understand his point of view, but his attitude makes agreeing with him abhorrent to me.”

          Someone who thinks that a special attitude is needed to exercise a right is anti-natural rights, and in this case anti 2A.

        7. avatar Matt in FL says:

          The funny thing is, you can’t take “good enough” as good enough. I’ve never said what you were doing was illegal, I said it was stupid and/or foolish. I’m not sure how that makes me anti-2A in your eyes, but since you’re just about the only person on the entire goddamn planet that sees things the way you do, I’m comfortable with whatever label you put on me. After all, folks can’t consider the label without considering the source, and I’m confident that will work out in my favor 99.5% of the time.

        8. “I’ve never said what you were doing was illegal, I said it was stupid and/or foolish.”

          Every anti-2A activist agrees with you, they also think that open carry is stupid and foolish.

        9. avatar Matt in FL says:

          I believe they call that a tautology.

        10. avatar rawmade says:

          I can paint my car to look like a giant dick, doesnt mean anyone who calls me dumb is anti 1a. It just means im F’ing dumb

      2. avatar Matt in TX says:

        What the other Matt said!

      3. avatar Taylor Tx says:

        Just as a thought, a rifle case that is molded to look like the AR inside instead of a normal rectangular rifle case, is sort of an attention grab isnt it?

        1. avatar Matt in FL says:

          Yeah, it is.

        2. avatar TheDabbo says:

          That’s his schtick. Keep in mind he was also detained at Radnor Lake while carrying a Draco pistol (the tip of which he had painted orange so as “not to get shot.”)

          Now, he’s talking about this past summers arrest while open carrying the rifle. Here’s the thing- under Tennessee law, it is illegal to carry a rifle with a round chambered, unless it is a self-defense situation. With a permit, you can carry a rifle with a magazine inserted, but no round chambered. When the cop asked him if the rifle was loaded, a simple “no” would have sufficed. Whether or not that violates his 5A rights, I’m not a lawyer, and not well read enough to know.

    3. avatar the ruester says:

      This is a great example of a train wreck you can’t turn away from.

    4. avatar Cliff H says:

      Leonard, there is a significant difference between being a philosophical 2A Absolutist and being a martyr.

      While every important cause needs its martyrs, it also needs those who are willing to accept realities they cannot avoid while fighting for the over-all victory.

      Japanese Banzai! attacks and Soviet division-size charges into entrenched German positions created many martyrs for their causes, and given enough cannon fodder won the point for the Russians and MIGHT have worked for the Japanese. Americans generally prefer to fight a more tactical battle.

      Martyr yourself if you are so inclined, but stop denigrating those who fight in a different way. We all seek the same goal – the martyrs may well be long dead before any of us can enjoy the fruits of victory.

      1. “Martyr yourself if you are so inclined, but stop denigrating those who fight in a different way.”

        Some people believe in the 2A, others like RF pick and choose just as Feinstein. IMO, RF is a Feinstein. RF, do not denigrate those of us who think the right to bear arms is a natural right.
        I don’t consider myself a martyr.

    5. avatar Alaskan Patriot says:

      Leonard, with all due respect…

      Can’t you just shut the hell up? You’re having some kind of legal issue. We get it. When are you going to nut up and stop bitching about it on this site?

      Personally, I don’t know the details, so with something as muddy as this, I’ll withhold judgement until it’s resolved, which I have no doubt you’ll come screaming about when it happens.

      But until then, would it REALLY be so hard to stop making your problem into everyone else’s problem?

      1. RF called me an idiot for exercising my right to bear arms.

        I’ll continue to point out that he is anti-2a.

        1. avatar Robert Farago says:

          Citation or it didn’t happen. And if it did I’ll look at it again. If I was wrong, I’ll correct the post and make a separate post admitting my mistake. Fair enough?

        2. avatar Alaskan Patriot says:

          I’d sooner believe that the man in the moon winked at you than the guy who owns this site doesn’t support the 2nd Amendment.

          A man who owns and regularly carries firearms, who posts the views/opinions that he does, on a site he OWNS, titled “The Truth About Guns,” and who is regularly ridiculed by *known* gun control supporters, is anti Second Amendment? Please.

          And as far as the name calling, boo-hoo. If he called you an idiot in a general sense, it was HARDLY undeserved. You’re a man, at least in a chronological sense. How about you start acting like it?

        3. avatar Swarf says:

          You probably did call him an idiot, RF, and from what I’ve been able to piece together, you were right.

          But instead of going “huh, RF just called me an idiot” and moving on with his life, he’s acting as though you calling him out individually for his actions means you are against a specific action involving the 2a across the board, and that’s just, well, idiotic.

        4. avatar LongBeach says:

          He didn’t call you an idiot for exercising your right, he called you an idiot for acting like an idiot when it wasn’t necessary. Did you have to stop and talk to the cops? No. But if you had simply answered their questions politely (as you should have, because you were acting within your rights and had no evil intent, and therefore no reason to act like a jerk) you would have been on your way in seconds, rights completely uninfringed upon. You could have gone about your business, the cops would have confirmed you weren’t a threat, and this whole episode would have just been a boring-ass video about an obnoxious dude walking around pointlessly. Being obtuse and abrasive towards anyone (especially a cop) is a great way to have that same attitude thrown right back at you, and that’s exactly what happened. You aren’t in hot water for WHAT you did, but for HOW you did it. Your need for attention and the result of this stunt you pulled paints us all as obnoxious, childish people and that isn’t the case. You sure as hell aren’t representative of me, and I am extremely confident that I am speaking for most people on this site when I say that. We are fighting a culture war over our 2A rights, and you are not helping us win that war. Thank God for Leonard Embody and his classy, intelligent, likable behavior, he sure is helping us win people over. Said nobody, ever. Stop bringing a problem, of which you are the sole creator, to us and looking for sympathy. We were not standing on the street carrying a retarded vacuum-formed rifle case, repeating “am I being detained!?” aimlessly instead of participating in meaningful adult conversation, you were. Don’t bring what you screwed up to us and expect us to trip over our dicks to help you and hug you and tell you what you did was wonderful and that you’re a beautiful unique snowflake.

        5. avatar Matt in FL says:

          He thinks that the mere momentary imposition of answering a single question is an unforgivable infringement, and if you think otherwise, then you’re as anti-2A as Feinstein.

          The funny thing is, I understand his point of view, but his attitude makes agreeing with him abhorrent to me.

        6. avatar rawmade says:

          Because walking down the street in body armor with a rifle case yelling AM I BEING DETAINED?!?!?!
          Doesnt make you a complete idiot

        7. avatar Ben says:

          Based on your behavior here, I’d say he called it.

        8. “You aren’t in hot water for WHAT you did, but for HOW you did it.”

          Yes, and the anti-2A people on this blog (RF specifically) doesn’t think that law abiding open carry is appropriate.

        9. “Because walking down the street in body armor with a rifle case yelling AM I BEING DETAINED?!?!?!
          Doesn’t make you a complete idiot”

          You obviously didn’t see the current video. The sixth circuit, in my prior lawsuit determined that I was not detained 3 years ago by the cops because after having a gun pointed at my head and searched and told not to leave I asked for a supervisor and was promptly handcuffed and placed in the back of a cop car and held 2.5 hours.
          Now I make it a point to confirm on video that I am being held against my will. I don’t walk around yelling what you say, I don’t walk around yelling anything. It is only upon being detained that I verbally confirm my status and affirm fundamental rights.

        10. “He thinks that the mere momentary imposition of answering a single question is an unforgivable infringement”

          I am not required to answer questions under the fifth amendment of the constitution. Apparently you would choose to talk to cops, I choose not to and cannot be forced to do so.

        11. avatar jwm says:

          Only 1 logical explanation for Leonard’s continued attacks on this pro 2a site and it’s staff. He’s on the kapo bloomberg payroll. Hired to discredit the gun community. Only thing that makes any sense of his childish and boorish behaviour . bloomberg has deep pockets and he tucked leonard into one of them.

        12. avatar Matt in FL says:

          Nah, I’m pretty sure Bloomberg wants no part of him, either.

      2. “When are you going to nut up and stop bitching about it on this site? ”

        I complain of RF’s hypocrisy. Specifically concerning firearms and now storage of firearms considering he called me an idiot for carrying a firearm which was unloaded and locked in a hard case.

        1. avatar Matt in FL says:

          I will say that it’s pretty impressive how you can make virtually any subject written about here, through some smoke and hand-waving, to suddenly be about you.

        2. Not about me, about RF and his anti 2A tendencies.

        3. avatar Matt in FL says:

          However you want to define it, please stop hijacking posts with your personal jihad against RF. Your pretexts for doing so are so thin I could read a newspaper through them, and it’s getting old. Half the comments in this post are in response to your comment about your vacu-formed hard case, and the original post was about home storage. Apples and oranges; you can’t even claim to be on topic. You just wanted another soapbox from which to take potshots at people.

        4. The original post was concerning “safe storage laws”, not home storage.

        5. avatar Matt in FL says:

          Safe storage laws are home storage, you fucking troll. They have nothing whatsoever to do with some witless bag of dicks carrying a rifle around on his back. Ergo, your pretext for input in this post is nonexistent.

    6. avatar Ralph says:

      Speaking for myself, I can’t wait for Lenny to go to prison. And you know that he will. Guys like him just can’t help it.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        I worked at a prison. I wouldn’t wish that on just anyone. But Lenny is such a giant douchebag with an insufferable ego that allows only his opinion, so sooner or later he’s going to cross a line and wind up in prison or the bone orchard.

        Either way, we’re not having to hear his whining. Win-win for us.

        1. avatar Jus Bill says:

          A M E N

  4. avatar Javier says:

    Anybody who believes all that materiel is being “lost” as opposed to stolen and/or sold into the black market redefines gullible.

  5. avatar tdiinva says:

    Military units have always been known for scrounging equipment off books. During the Second World War many infantry units managed to collect heavy weapons, jeeps, trucks and even tanks that weren’t part of their TO&E. The military has so much stuff that it is nearly impossible to know where all of it is at any one moment. You will find the same problems with military equipment inventories that the Canadians found in their infamous long gun registry. There will always be GIs who for good reasons or bad will exploit the system to their advantage.

    1. avatar Matt in FL says:

      Exactly. It surprises me not at all that the military can’t keep track of all its toys. However, I’m equally secure in the knowledge that the majority of the “shrink” as it’s called in retail is on paper. Of course, if the paperwork problems are such that you can’t get the materiel where you need it when you need it there, then you do have a problem. But yeah, the majority of it is paperwork, just like the majority of FFL “lost guns” are serial number transcriptions and similar errors. That said, the legitimate and innocent paperwork errors do provide a pretty high noise floor for those with nefarious intent to sneak their bad actions under.

      1. avatar Jus Bill says:

        What with mail and FEDEX available worldwide, I suspect it’s probably more like “One for you. One for me. Two for you. One, two for me…”

        Of course, paperwork is not a really, really high priority in an actual combat unit doing, you know, combat.

    2. avatar jwm says:

      John Kennedy’s 109 boat had a scrounged anti tank gun lashed down on it’s foredeck on it’s last mission. I carried a Tokarev pistol on more than 1 occasion and commie sidearms were definately not in our supply chain. Military people scrounge, trade, buy and steal what they need to do the job. Mostly their motives are good. The ones with the less noble motives should be busted, just like any other crook.

      1. avatar jollyroger says:

        Agreed. Several times we need armor piercing incendiary rounds for my 240 and we couldn’t get them because they were a civilian risk.Guess what first box J saw four d its way to my 240 same with British grenades and LAWS issued to the Afghan National army

      2. avatar Ardent says:

        I’m almost certain that it’s in the regs that one cannot be a supply clerk or quarter master if you’re incapable of making things disappear and reappear both in fact and on the books at will.

        1. avatar jwm says:

          David Copperfield is an amatuer compared to those fellows.

        2. avatar Jus Bill says:

          That’s Natural Selection for logisticians. You learn it early and well or change careers.

  6. avatar Tile floor says:

    This shouldn’t be a surprise… When my unit was in Iraq word was sure fire flashlights were going to be issued… Turns out they were never issued because someone in supply was stealing them and selling them, and when he was caught a whopping two years later he had somehow disassembled and stolen half of a 249…

  7. avatar ensitue says:

    Rule #1
    Never let a Dick near your firearms or your home
    #2 never let him count your firearms
    #3 never associate the IRS w/your firearms or medical care

  8. avatar Samuel Suggs says:

    yeah the military and people are equal.

  9. avatar Jim Bullock says:

    Anybody who thinks this is OK should first have a talk with anyone who runs a business in the food service, manufacturing or cleanup / disposal industries. Or try to open a restaurant in NYC.

    Get a taste of what being monitored for “safe” practices is like, then decide if you are for letting that particular camel’s nose under your tent.

  10. avatar tmm says:

    Not that g-men should be able to inspect arms storage, particularly in the absence of wrongdoing or warrant, but something about a splinter and a log come to mind.

  11. avatar jwm says:

    The government can get their house in order. They still have no business in my house.

  12. avatar Hasdrubal says:

    While cleaning a huge of garbage left in and around some cargo containers on FOB Warhorse a few years ago, I found a bunch of equipment and ammunition that apparently, the last unit to occupy that space didn’t bother to turn in.

    This included fourteen AT4 rockets, a few boxes of C4 and det cord, about 40 grenades, a big stack of Bradley reactive armor tiles, and about 50-60,000 rds of ammunition ranging from 5.56 to 25mm. I think a battalion commander got fired over that, when CID found out about it. The AT4s had serial numbers, which means they must have (falsely) written them off as used or something.

    All the rest of the stuff we found was quietly used to replace broken or lost gear for my own unit, to save the paperwork of ordering new stuff. I guess it saved a bunch of money, too.

  13. avatar Yngvar says:

    We have gun safe inspections here i Norway. They’ll send you a warning, eh , I mean they must give you advance notice 72 hours before they come knocking.
    Local PD announced the formation of a Safe Patrol Task Force about …oh.. some 2 years ago. Haven’t heard anything about them since. I think that’s because the gun owner have to be present. But s/he might be on vacation (lot of vacation here), or away 2 weeks on an oil rig, or away 2 months on a fishing boat, or what have you. They just gave up. Just a waste of time and money. My theory.

    I hate that law and hope they never come.

  14. avatar Hannibal says:

    I’m mostly okay with laws that are only enforceable in the exception… that is, if someone is proven to have NOT kept their gun safe because their 5 year old kid shot himself with it (or someone else, etc), they can be culpable- but not otherwise. Basically more of a liability law.

    But the problem is I remember how the government works with laws like that. It used to be that seatbelt laws were a secondary offense- “hey, we’re not going to be stopping people just for a seatbelt”- but sure enough, it took a couple of years for people to get used to a seatbelt law and they quietly make it a primary offense that now is a significant percentage of violations that get pulled over.

  15. avatar Bobiojimbo says:

    Last ship I was stationed on had shotguns stolen from the armory.

  16. avatar BHirsh says:

    The USSC ruled in Heller that a government mandate that firearms be rendered inoperable in the home is an impermissible burden on the right to self-defense.

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