OMG! Another Hunter Walking! In Wisconsin! OMG!

nathanpieters

Remember that University of Wisconsin student who was recently tracked down by the Madison PD after they received frantic calls about a camo-clad man with a gun? Yeah, he was only a hunter returning from a less than fruitful day in the woods. It was probably easy to write that incident off, though, given that Madison is really just a big, hippie-infested college town best known for its lefty politics and being the birthplace of The Onion. That kind of crazitude could never happen elsewhere in the Eat Cheese or Die State…other than maybe Milwaukee, right? Au contraire, mon frere . . .

About 40 miles southeast of the capitol, in New Richmond, hunter Nathan Pieters was similarly ambulating his way home from an unproductive hunting expedition the other day and prompted some hysterical calls to the police, too. He was subsequently stopped by two members of the local constabulary. Nathan graciously took it upon himself to write up the incident himself and send it to us. Here’s his account:

On Monday, November 25th, the third day of the gun deer season in Wisconsin, I decided I wanted to go hunting. I hadn’t been able to get out thus far in the season. The only problem was I had to split use of the family car and ended up walking home. I was at the Betterly Wildlife Production Area for several hours, which was approximately five miles from my home and had told my family that I would be walking home after hunting and would be home in time to pick up my kindergartener.  Accompanying me on this trip were my Mosin nagant for the field and a Stevens 320 12 ga, for the wooded areas . . .

After hunting, I unloaded both guns, secured the shotgun to my backpack and engaged the bolt safety on my Mosin, which I could only carry slung over my shoulder. I then walked up County GG the mile or two to 140th and all my encounters were positive. A few hunters in pickup trucks stopped and asked me where I was hunting, if I’d seen anything, had I got anything yet and I had a pleasant encounter with a mail carrier when I stopped for water.

I walked up 140th for about 10 or 15 minutes on the sidewalk when a large lady in a grubby red sweater drove by in a small car and began having visible fits, flailing her hands and making it obvious that she was calling 911. It made me laugh a bit and I continued on my way fully expecting to talk to the local PD.

About five minutes later, a New Richmond Police Dept SUV pulled up along side me and an officer asked me if I was out hunting. I responded that I was and was just headed home. He told me that they were getting calls from people who were concerned and was just checking on it, saying that the reports were about a man walking with “uncased long guns.”  I recognize BS when I see it, so I corrected him, telling him that it would be a crime to cover them, that open carry was constitutional and referenced Wisconsin Attorney General Van Hollen’s 2009 memorandum regarding open carry. I also informed him that an individual should not be stopped just for the fact that he is openly carrying a firearm.

He then asked for ID and I politely declined, stating that’s my right. He asked again and why I declined and I politely told him that I had done nothing wrong and since he had to ask, he had no right to my ID. He told me he had to check it out. I agreed and told him he did and then I asked him if I was suspected of a crime, which he tried to evade answering.

I asked again and he said no, and I then asked if I was being detained or was free to go. He said “hold on just a minute” and began to head to his cruiser, maybe for the radio, and I asked again if I was being detained, a bit more forcefully, but trying to remain polite and diplomatic. He said no and I told him that I had kids to pick up from school and was still a ways from home and needed to go. He said “OK” and I then said goodbye and waved.

I didn’t get 10 or 20 steps when a St. Croix County deputy skidded to a stop at the curb beside me and demanded my ID, which I again declined. She told me that they were “fielding a lot of calls” and that I was being a problem. She claimed that I was close to a school zone and I corrected her saying that I was close to the 1000 foot limit, but was definitely outside it. She started fishing for a crime by asking me if I was wearing my blaze orange the whole time I was hunting, which I was (I don’t want to be shot – nobody does. We shoot the deer, right?)

She asked me if I was using expanding ammo, which I was. I told her to get to the point and she told me that I wasn’t doing anything wrong and acknowledged that it was my right to open carry and then offered me a “ride.” I asked where to, and she didn’t answer. At that point, I told her “No, I don’t really trust you or know you and I think I’m just going to walk.”

She then began to get louder and told me that I was too close to a school and was scaring people and that pickup was beginning soon to which I replied “I know, I need to be there to pick up my own kid and you’re going to make me late.  Goodbye.” I then proceeded to continue south down 140th and about a half mile or so later she pulled up behind me again, this time almost hitting me with her cruiser. She jumped out and yelled at me that “we are fielding a lot of calls and if we continue to receive them we are going to do something.” I asked “like what?” and she told me “you will be going to jail.”

At that point I got angry and told her: “No, I will not be going to jail. That is a violation of my Constitutional rights.  Leave me alone or I will get an attorney and sue you.” I then turned and walked away, but unsnapped my Smith & Wesson SD40, and the jacket pocket containing my BUG just in case she attacked me. I continued along 140th to 157th and went to a neighbor’s house, and asked for help and permission to cross their private property to make it home safely.

Throughout the encounter, I was taking pictures on my cellphone of the deputies following me. At one point, she was just a few yards behind me and when I turned to take a picture, she sped off and the other backed up. At other times, she hung back a couple hundred feet.

comments

  1. avatar Tim says:

    They “don’t want” to take hunting rifles away, but you wouldn’t know it after reading stories like these!

    1. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

      It’s not that. It’s because my scary bolt action sniper gun and weapon of mass scatter caused a ruckus. Seriously.

      1. avatar dudebro says:

        +1 for mosin

      2. avatar Bill says:

        nothing like a $100 dollar rifle to cause the county and local LEOs to waste likely hundreds of dollars in harassing you 😀 . Nothing but respect for you man, keep on keeping on. Sounds like you weren’t trying to be a handful, they were just out for trouble.

        1. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

          I was trying to turn that $24 deer tag into a freezer full of food for my family.

    2. avatar Sixpack70 says:

      It’s a scary weapon of war! Literally.

      1. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

        I prefer to think of it as a retiree out doing some hunting. 😛

  2. avatar Bob says:

    And people wonder why cops are hated so much?

    1. avatar ropingdown says:

      Make that “why the fat ladies in ragged red sweaters in little cars” are so disliked. I’d just loved to catch one of them with a 32 ounce soda that was terrifying me, because…think of the medical bills to come.

  3. avatar Defens says:

    She jumped out and yelled at me that “we are fielding a lot of calls and if we continue to receive them we are going to do something.”

    Something like, say, telling the busybody neighbors to mind their own business?

    Maybe we should start calling in whenever we see suspicious looking “gangs” of liberal anti-gunners gathered on street corners, “talking furtively into cell phones” and “carrying suspicious backpacks.”.

    “… and then offered me a “ride.” Cue early scene in Rambo, where Brian Dennehy gives Rambo a ride through town.

    Good on you, Nathan. Unlike folks that go strolling for confrontation, you were just going about your business, knew your rights, and refused to be bullied.

    1. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

      Thanks. I was offered several rides but refused them because it would have put other people in danger and sent a message to that deputy that she could continue to act that way.

    2. avatar Hunter57dor says:

      im rather happy to live in a city with good LEO’s.

      once had a call from my idiot neighbors they responded to.

      my friends van, while running, is not in the greatest of shape.

      so, OF COURSE neighbor calls it in as abandoned.

      so we get a knock on our door, two torrance cops standing there.

      “this your vehicle sir?”

      “my friends. hes visiting me”

      “ok, sounds good. just someone who won’t mind their business”

      “thanks officer, have a nice day.”

      encounter over, no further questioning.

      now, while CA isn’t a carry state, if it was, im sure torrance would be a nice place about it.

  4. avatar 5Spot says:

    This is excellent. It is epic how an offense is stating a constitutional right, where it should be understood by the po po. It is also terrifying how stating a right or asking if you are being detained is like raising the bet.

    No I won’t get in your car, but you can park and walk with me if you wish…!

    1. avatar Bob Wall says:

      “Momma told me never to accept rides with strangers, and deputy, you’re sure acting strange to me!”

  5. avatar rlc2 says:

    4 guns to hunt deer? Call me a FUDD but this sounds more like another open carry zealot out to prove a point…

    1. avatar rlc2 says:

      Note carefully I am not defending the cops in particular the female if this is an accurate version. She needs more training if so. But this starting to smell like the guy in tx who the jury found to be causing a problem de

    2. It shouldn’t matter. And you must have missed the part where it would have been illegal for him to case his long guns.

      1. avatar rlc2 says:

        You missed my point and diverted from it to set up a strawman on the cases. Try again.

        1. It’s not a straw man if he’s within his rights. How about you try again.

        2. Also, you’re arguing intent. The man went hunting. Then, not having a vehicle, walked home. My point about the cases is valid because he legally could not conceal them. His BUG was in his pocket and I’m guessing his coat covered his primary side arm. Point being: he had no choice but to open carry on his way home after HUNTING and you’re saying he’s trying to stir the pot? Get real.

      2. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

        Somebody gets it. 😉

    3. avatar Xanthro says:

      A rifle, shotgun and pistol is not much for going out into the woods and hunting. That’s standard for many.

      There’s other game than deer when you hunt.

      It’s really annoying when you hunt and find no deer sign and squirrels are everywhere and you didn’t bring a shotgun or .22.

      1. avatar rlc2 says:

        Ok thc I defer to the experienced hunters here on the long guns. But a BUG? And the part about unsnapping the holster to be ready to defend himeelf against the cop? Sorry…thats just stupid not to mention admit to that kind of intent on the record. This guy ever has a legal self defense shoot he is going to spend extra time and money defending it against a prosecutor IMHO. But I defer to our resident legal beagal on that one too…Ralph?

        1. avatar Hannibal says:

          yup… guy’s either asking to be shot or trying to be a macho man after the fact.

          Given it’s only his story we’re seeing, I suspect the latter. But I never trust one side of the story.

        2. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

          Baaaaa! Baaaaaaa! Thank you for your opinion.

        3. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

          BTW, the bug was in case of mechanical failure. I always expect to deal with coyotes or other animals when hunting, and was surprised when the deputy continued to harass me since I know the Sheriff to be an outstanding law enforcement official.

    4. avatar carsonthebrain64 says:

      When I would deer hunt with my grandfather as a kid, he always had a 12 ga. with him as well for taking a few dove if the deer were not present.

    5. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

      He also missed the part where I had two of them concealed. How can I be an open carry zealot if I am concealing my loaded ones and openly carrying the unloaded ones? Try again bro.

      1. avatar Ron Burgundy says:

        I’m surprised to read that your state forbids you to carry an unloaded long gun in a case.

        1. avatar Nigil says:

          It’s not that carrying an unloaded gun in a case is not allowed. It’s that having an unloaded gun in your hand, and the ammo for said gun in your pocket/pack, is not considered transportation but carrying. And carrying a concealed weapon sometimes only applies to handguns.

    6. avatar MudPuppy says:

      If you can accept or even actively support demonstrators like OWS, then you should be able to accept people exercising their constitutional right to keep and bear arms. You don’t have to agree with it, but it is their right.

    7. avatar PW in KY says:

      Mayor Bloomberg is that you?

  6. avatar Sock Monkey says:

    “We’re fielding a lot of calls…” Is it a crime to do something legal, that just happens to look suspicious to others?

    ‘Cause you’d think the police would be satisfied with finding out that the MWAG isn’t one.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      The only ting the cop did right, and it should have happened immediately after their first conversation, was to stand off a reasonable distance and make sure he was just a law-abiding hunter heading home. Observation of a potential suspect is one thing, bullying and harassment of a citizen not committing a crime is another.

      1. avatar MudPuppy says:

        Suspected of what? That is the whole problem with this scenario.

        A hunter, with hunting guns, during hunting season, none of the weapons carried in hand, but rather secured to a backpack or slung over the shoulder. This does not constitute reasonable suspicion of anything.

  7. I just got back from hunting. You handled it better than I would. I’ve had it with morons.

  8. avatar Bob says:

    In the article:

    Above all, Shilts urged the need for the public to trust law enforcement officials.

    “We cannot do our jobs if we don’t have the public’s trust,” Shilts said. “It just doesn’t work. If the public doesn’t trust law enforcement, this whole thing isn’t going to work.”

    Hey sherriff, maybe if your officers thugs weren’t so hostile and aggressive you might gain a little trust. You can’t demand trust, you have to earn it.

    1. avatar BillF says:

      The encounter never should have gone past the “I was out hunting” explanation. It’s hunting season and he had an explanation for carrying guns. I pity the kids growing up today who will never enjoy a reasonable measure of freedom.

      1. avatar bgreenea3 says:

        After a quick check of the hunting license he should have been sent on his merry way. Which I’m sure he would be required to show if he was out hunting. I probably would have offered him a ride the rest of the way as a courtesy.

        1. avatar MudPuppy says:

          A check of the hunting license while hunting might be appropriate by the agencies who oversee the management of natural resources. As he was not actively hunting and was walking to his home in public, what right does a police officer not affiliated with wildlife management have to demand to see the hunting license?

          Citizens are not required to present their papers in this country (yet).

  9. avatar Nick says:

    “but unsnapped my Smith & Wesson SD40, and the jacket pocket containing my BUG just in case she attacked me”……. WTF kind of drugs are you on? Sounds like your just asking for trouble to me. Seriously google map the area and there were other ways to travel that were not within a block or two of 2 elementary schools, a middle school and a high school. He could have traveled on County Rd GG took a left onto 150th st.and then a right onto 160th ave to get to 157. I would pull this post down and not give this clown the attention he craves

    1. He was within his rights concerning the route he took. He just has a higher risk tolerance than you would have.

      1. avatar Nick says:

        Higher risk tolerance? you mean trying to start stuff with the police? I mean come on the dude wrote he unsnapped his holster, sounds like a jacka$$ to me.

        1. Re-read my reply. I said “concerning the route he took.” As to “starting stuff” with the police, that’s a personal discretion decision. I don’t know if he meant he was concerned she might fire at him or if he meant restrain him. If it was the former, and I was him, then I’d see no choice but to defend myself. I’m giving the guy some leeway in this story because it’s his account.

        2. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

          Ok, you go ahead and let the next Daniel Harless wannabe murder you. I will not. Tyranny comes in many forms Nick. Police unions protecting their own is one of them.

    2. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

      Yes there were and I was not going to walk on the side of a road for any longer than I had to. A hunter was just hit and killed recently, wearing blaze orange no less. Sidewalks are safer and legal when outside a school zone. 1001 feet or 1300, doesn’t matter. Legal is legal.

      1. avatar Paul G. says:

        The whole 1000 ft buffer us a crock anyways. Fortunately, my state doesn’t recognize it. What do people do who live less than 1000 ft from a school? Their rights are less important than others? If the hunter walking lived 950 ft from a school he couldn’t walk home?

    3. avatar Ace says:

      Agreed. I was enjoying the article until that line jumped out at me.

      Anyone who thinks they will prevail in either court or the media ‘defending themselves’ against the police hasn’t thought long and hard about what they are doing. He went from polite 2A activist to something else at that point.

      1. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

        I’m not an “activist.” I am a father and a guy who loves to hunt.

      2. avatar Tim McNabb says:

        I think I would rather have my daddy in jail and alive, than dead because he could not defend himself against a cop – especially in light of recent police shootings.

  10. avatar Hasdrubal says:

    Thank you for understanding your rights, standing up for them, and definitely doing a better job being civil than the deputy that showed up second.

    1. avatar Jus Bill says:

      I find it pretty much universal that the local PD deals best with these sorts of things, and really despises the arrogant County and State cops.

  11. avatar chuck (hates nj) says:

    She jumped out and yelled at me that “we are fielding a lot of calls and if we continue to receive them we are going to do something.”
    Something like go back to the station and help answer those calls instead of harassing me before I call my lawyer.

  12. avatar Leadbelly says:

    You were well within your rights, and I would not have done anything different myself, but don’t get the idea that this is over, my friend. If they took the trouble, they will have had no problem discovering your name and address. Expect that “knock on the door in the dead of night”, and give your lawyer a heads-up. Would be a good idea to ask for a number where he, or his designated associate can be reached instantly at any hour. If he refuses, find a real attorney, not a wills, divorces and bankruptcy clerk.

    1. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

      The city LEOs know damn well who I am as I am one of the few who openly carries my firearm in this area and have since I moved here. I suspect that’s why they chose to leave after I said goodbye. As for the deputy, it would be hard for her to pull anything now. She’s already gotten too much attention. Why do you think I’m making myself heard?

      1. avatar Leadbelly says:

        Cool your jets, bub. I’m on your side.

        1. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

          Sorry, a bit irritated with a few of those who claim to support our god given rights to bear arms but question my actions which fall in line with those rights when a deputy who is out of control and maybe intentionally tried to hit me with her car. I was just venting in general, it wasn’t directed towards you. Thanks for the support.

  13. avatar Orton Fallswell says:

    This whole situation could have turned into a melee real easy, a guy with guns disobeys a “lawful command” etc etc…. Doesnt really matter anymore about the law, we live in a post Constitutional police state and gung ho cops with itchy trigger fingers and a God complex love any excuse to grab their fancy new taxpayer provided AR15s and empty a mag into the surrounding school zone while trying to hit a “deranged man with a gun.” This guy has a bigger sack than me, I hide my irons like a squirrel with a fat acorn, because it just takes one anti gun libtard to call in and get one egotastic LEO to come crashing down on your parade. As far as hunting, I go in the woods with the iron in the truck, a nice private parcel, with no prying eyes.

  14. avatar Bill says:

    20 years ago, we’d make cross country pilgrimage from Indiana and Ohio to Minnesota for Thanksgiving, driving across the state of Wisconsin, to my childlike mind, everyone in WI hunted, there were deer strapped across car hoods and roofs and hanging out of trunks, blood dripping from pickup tailgates, everywhere, I’m a little shocked that people in WI freak out about a guy with a hunting rifle or shotgun during hunting season…weird.

    1. avatar Jeff says:

      Garrison Keillor Syndrome.

  15. avatar OldBenTurninginGrave says:

    I’m with Bill (above). I don’t blame the deputies here as much as the press and politicians who actively try to terrify people in order to push their agenda. The fact that a guy carrying a rifle and wearing orange during deer season caused any stir at all is idiotic. The deputy seems to have over-reacted, true, but America needs to collectively take a deep breath and chill the hell out.

  16. avatar Chris says:

    I was good with everything done until this…. “I then turned and walked away, but unsnapped my Smith & Wesson SD40, and the jacket pocket containing my BUG just in case she attacked me.”

    She is still a law enforcement officer even if she wrong. Better to fight it in court for her falsely arresting you, then a shooting occurring. I don’t know of a single circumstance where drawing down on a cop is right, or a smart move. It will almost always wind up with someone dead and the survivor isn’t exactly a winner either. I support police who are trying to do their job, obviously in this situation she was wrong, but my mind never would have gone to even touching or thinking about going for my gun.

    1. avatar Bob5 says:

      Although we are heading down that shallow hole toward tyranny, we are a long way away from the bottom. It is better to fight this in court and at the ballot box. There are many police departments with minimally trained LEOs who are waist deep in their political ideology. Often, this gap is related to budget constraints; sometimes, it is the politics of the officer or their supervisors. If LEOs overstep their bounds, sue them. If enough people sue them for violating the rights of its citizens, regardless if you win or not, it will have an adverse affect on their budget. Also, run for city counsel, mayor, county Sherriff or whatever, for if enough of us do, we will eventually win enough offices to make a difference on the behavior of these people.

      1. avatar gloomhound says:

        Police commit murders at a higher rate than CCL holders and nowhere in the law does it say you have to let an government employee murder you.

        1. avatar rawmade says:

          In what circumstance would drawing on a LEO ever be a good idea? Ill take it a step further, in what circumstance would drawing on a LEO not be the stupidest goddamn thing you can ever do…
          So if she drew on him youd cowboy up and have a showdown?
          Cops generally dont just shoot people because you upset them, they shoot when you give them a reason to, like drawing on them..or when they wrongly think youre making a move.
          Either way im not going to GIVE them that reason

        2. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

          Rawmade…google Daniel Harless. And yes, if she draws on me after acknowledging that I have committed no crime, she is doing so out of anger and is trying to commit murder.

      2. avatar Bill says:

        Judged by 12 vs carried by 6? Each situation is different, there are certainly situations where what he did might be called for, and others where it wasn’t so prudent. Wasn’t there, his call, situation resolved itself with minimal to no lasting harm. Frankly, one day, not too far in the future, it may come down to defending ourselves physically from representatives of the .gov and some here will say that our fight isn’t with the individual employee, they are just providing for their family, etc. etc. On the grand scheme of things, their motive for supporting a tyrannical government is insignificant against what actions are carried out in that government’s name.

  17. avatar Adub says:

    I had a similar situation once but the cops were cool once we showed ID. I think they get nervous until they know you won’t run away (since they know where you live).

    1. avatar Matt in FL says:

      I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t care if they get nervous. They’re nervous until they find out where I live; I’m nervous when they find out where I live, now that they know I’m a “troublemaker.” And believe me, if you come to their attention, if they have to go out of their way to interface with you, you’re a “troublemaker,” even if only a minor one.

    2. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

      My backtags were attached to my backpack. I turned to leave and they right in front of her within reading distance. She could have read them every time I walked away from her.

    3. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

      You voluntarily forfeited a constitutional right. If everyone keeps doing that, they will think we don’t want them and take them away.

  18. avatar rawmade says:

    Overall you did what you should have done…

    But ” I then turned and walked away, but unsnapped my Smith & Wesson SD40, and the jacket pocket containing my BUG just in case she attacked me.”
    I dunno about that one…

    1. avatar MudPuppy says:

      On this one section I agree, had the female cop been a touch more observant that could have been interpreted as a furtive aggressive move and could have given her exactly the excuse to draw down on the OP. Upon searching him, she would have come up with a concealed firearm and the FUDDs and hopolophobes would take it as proof of intent to murder the schoolkids a kilometer away.

      1. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

        I’m going to agree with you guys on this one. While it is legal, in Texas, in theory, to defend yourself against excessive police force, it’s not exactly the kind of case you want to find yourself in.

  19. avatar Rich Gun Guy says:

    Get a second car already.

  20. avatar peirsonb says:

    I’m not familiar with WI laws, and I’m far to lazy to look them up on my phone, but I can see her offer of a ride being an attempt at a backdoor charge.

    In MI, where I’m from, and in OH, where am I am now and assuming I read the law correctly before I moved, the only way to legally transport a long arm in the cab of a vehicle is cased.

    I can imagine had he would’ve been hit with an illegal transport….

    1. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

      or been illegally transported to a locked cage for nefarious reasons. If I did that, it would be called “kidnapping.”

      1. avatar Bob says:

        When cops do it to people who have harmed or threatened no-one (which they do all day long) I call it kidnapping too.

    2. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

      It’s possible, but I doubt the officer was that clever. I’m no WI law expert, either, but assuming it’s somewhat similar to the laws of Texas, it’s a defense against prosecution that you were acting under the reasonable belief that you were following an officer’s lawful order.

      For example, say a uniformed, on-duty officer is struggling to apprehend a suspect and calls out to you, just random guy standing nearby, for help. You go help pin the BG down while the officer cuffs him. You’re protected civilly and criminally from any kind of assault and batter charge against the suspect for offering that assistance, since you believed you were following the officer’s lawful orders. And you were. So following an officer’s invitation for a ride, but then getting busted for carrying uncased, would be bogus and entrapment.

  21. avatar RizzyG says:

    if your fielding a lot of calls about someone doing something completely legal, maybe you should spend the time educating the caller rather than harassing the hunter. Everyone wins

  22. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

    Whether it’s the open carry demonstrators, or open carriers for routine, non-political purposes, these instances will continue to happen for the foreseeable future. The question isn’t whether to abandon open carrying. The question is how to handle these situations in a manner that quickly and safely reaches a lawful conclusion.

    Granted, we’ve only read one side of the story; but it’s well written and avoids the harsh, accusatory tone one might well expect from a writer with this experience. I’m leaning toward believing the bulk of it. I’m not clear how he intended to haul any deer home without a vehicle, or why he didn’t ask any fellow hunters he ran into for a short 5 mile ride up road, but perhaps those details don’t matter.

    Whether it’s cops fielding hysterical, misplaced calls, or a school principal acting on idle threats, the fact remains that tragedies do occur and could again at any moment. They really do have to do *something*. Nobody wants to be the one facing fifty cameras and microphones each demanding to know what you knew, when you knew it and why you failed to act. Hence, these encounters will continue.

    I’d suggest presenting as polite and peaceful a presence as you can, while preserving your rights, and get through the situation without escalation. Threats of arrest are as unhelpful as are threats of lawsuits. Nearly hitting someone with a cruiser is almost as bad as preparing for a shootout with the cops. I can’t get into a whole conflict resolution seminar here, even if I were 100% qualified to deliver it (which I am not), but you get my point. Just try to see it from the other party’s perspective and try to find common ground that serves each side’s interests. Most gun owners are the good guys and an indeterminate percentage of the cops are good guys, too. Let’s keep that in mind.

    1. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

      Johnathon, i open carry my handgun all day every day and have had no unpleasant experiences except for the ones with the gun snobs who think their way is the only way…until now. I eat, shop and pump gas next to these officers and any conversation revolves around what model, how does it feel in the hand, what did it set you back, etc. Yet my cheap rifle and cheap shotgun elicit a hostile and aggressive response during deer season when my coat hat gloves and backpack are blaze orange.

    2. avatar Jeff says:

      leaving a carcass is just fine in lower temperatures. dress it out and hang it as best you can, it will be fine even next day.

      1. avatar Jacob Bang Bang says:

        Unless you come back and its gone.

        1. avatar Paul G. says:

          And I thought I saw mention of wolves and coyotes in the area…

        2. avatar Jeff says:

          In 30+ years of hunting between my dad and I, in area with plentiful bear, cougar, and coyote, that’s never happened. Suppose it could, but it’s not going to start smelling bad enough to attract predators/scavengers unless you leave it there for the better part of a week.

          My dad used to go hunting in deep wilderness and has packed out a few elk and big bucks that required quartering and multiple trips on foot. Meat was never touched.

        3. avatar Nathan says:

          Jeff, the first deer I ever shot was stolen from me while I walked the road around private property it wobbled across to get her. On public land, you cannot leave your kill. Your tags will be removed and your deer will be stolen. I’m not worried about wildlife taking my deer. It’s the less than honest humans that I worry about.

  23. avatar Ralph says:

    I thought that female cops are supposed to be adept at defusing potentially hostile situations. At least, that’s the propaganda.

    The New Richmond Police officer was the first to engage, and after satisfying himself that nothing was amiss, he went on his merry way looking for a thirteen year old with a toy gun for his shooting pleasure.

    That’s when the beyotch of St. Croix County took over, turning a bad situation into a worse one.

    Nice going, babe. You’re well on your way to becoming a true officer of the law. Arrogant, ruthless, power crazy and dangerous as hell.

    FYI, remember that crazy-ass New Mexico dirty harry who was pegging shots at a loco mother and her five kids as she drove away for a traffic stop? He’s been fired. For now.

  24. avatar R Miss says:

    Two people were open carrying in this confrontation and one was acting like a nut.

    1. avatar Jim Bullock says:

      FTW!

  25. avatar CharlieFoxtrot says:

    Good for you Nathan!

  26. avatar jwm says:

    You’re carrying 2 long guns in plain sight and 2 concealed handguns. And you’re ready to pull Daniel Harless like a switchblade. This whole thing smells badly of an leonard embody stunt.

    Did you actually unsnap your holster or just think it would be a cool and manly addition to the story. By the way, daniel harless was an asshole, but he wasn’t a murderer. If the story happened as you say and you had suckered the deputy into pulling and won the gunfight, you would have been a murderer.

    1. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

      Thankfully, Daniel Harless was stopped before he could murder someone. Are we going to split hairs here?

      1. avatar jwm says:

        It’s a mighty big hair to split. You called a man a murderer who was not. What does that say about your credibility?

        1. avatar Nathan says:

          I said “get murdered by the next Daniel Harless wannabe.” I simply referred to a cop with a superiority complex who might take it upon him/herself to act like Harless and then take it to the next level. I’m sure you remember the young man who got murdered by NYPD immediately after he was married. Cops kill people all the time for no good reason and I said if it suits you, go ahead and be one of them. I would rather die free than live a slave.

        2. avatar Nathan says:

          By the way, I was responding to Nick in the post you deliberately misquoted. Way to jump to Harless’ defense…you can retort all you like. I’m not going to waste my time with someone who can’t hold intelligent conversation.

    2. avatar rawmade says:

      I was with him till that point.
      I really cannot imagine ever thinking “hmm i better get my gun ready in case i gotta shoot this cop”…he says had she drawn on him he would take that as her wanting to murder him and he would act accordingly.
      If i did that the couple times ive been drawn on by LEOs id be dead. While they wrongfully did so I sure as shit wouldnt draw back and have a firefight.

      1. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

        And that’s because you are YOU. We are different people. You prefer to be a victim, I prefer to be free. Do as you wish, but do not try to change me by throwing insults and opinions at me.

        1. avatar rawmade says:

          What? What insult did I throw at you? All I said was I didnt agree with drawing on A LEO. And to say im a victim cause im not gonna draw on cops is a bit far fetched.
          If you dont want opinions dont post your shit on a public blog

    3. avatar Nathan says:

      How would I have “suckered” her into a gunfight? By taking the necessary precautions to try and preserve my own life after being made to feel unsafe by an armed and beligerent individual who just happens to have a badge and other armed friends to back her up? By telling her to pound sand? By exercising my rights? By open carrying? I’m beginning to think you just like to fluff badges. You made a stupid statement and tried to twist my words and misrepresent what I said. Fortunately, it’s all on here for everyone to see. Are you a cop or just a fluffer?

      1. avatar jwm says:

        Had it happened, how well do you think your version would have held up in court? Would you have lived to get to court? What about your wife and kids? Leaving a kindergarten aged child fatherless in a community where people will remind that child that his father died in the street gunned down by cops as a murderer isn’t the best outcome for your family.

        Call me a fluffer if you want, but getting into easily avoided near gunfights(or even worse, actual gunfights) with the law isn’t a smart way to operate. Continue with these movements around your guns near the cops and we’ll be seeing headlines about you in the future.

        1. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

          All what-ifs for a hypothetical situation. I tried my hardest to be non confrontational and took a stand when Deputy whateverhernameis made me feel unsafe and was in effect, spitting on the constitution because she was angry. I was more disappointed than anything as I know the Sheriff to be a heck of a guy who supports the constitution the way every official should, and it seems this deputy doesn’t respect her boss and has issues with discipline. I actually do feel bad that some people will blame him for what she knowingly chose to do, but at the same time this story needs to be heard. It’s the third time this year that I personally know of in Wisconsin that people doing nothing wrong were harassed or threatened by police for a constitutionally protected activity.

        2. avatar rlc2 says:

          I agree. You put yourself in a position to be questioned, act like a jerk and go online to admit you were mentally preparing for a gunfight with the cops? You ren’t geting it Nathan in spite of what sympathetic readers here say. You need to STFU here online and get some good legal advice. IMHO you are a hop skip and a stumble from putting your kids dad in jail.

        3. avatar Jay Nevard says:

          Bollocks.

          Did being in the right save Vicki and Sam Weaver?

          Be ready for attempts to murder you. And be ready to respond appropriately.

  27. avatar Stinkeye says:

    So, had you shot a nice fat doe, how were you planning to get it home? Leave a five-mile blood trail as you drag the carcass down the street?

    How hard would it be for the 911 operators to calmly explain that the MWAG in question had been investigated, and he’s just a hunter walking home? Oh, right, because you presented a minor challenge to the authority of an insecure cop, she needed to try to make an example of you. I’m glad she went home frustrated that day. Hopefully she learned something about the laws she’s supposed to uphold.

    1. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

      I would have had to wait at the parking area until 4:30. The deal i made with the old lady was to let her know if I got one, otherwise be home by 3:30 because it was my turn to wait for parent pickup.

      And yes, jwm. I did. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I have a right to life. I committed no crime, did everything right, as the sheriff stated, was harassed and made to feel unsafe. I have an obligation to make it home alive. That’s why I carry.

  28. avatar paultmccain says:

    What makes this story a bit different than the usual stories we get along these lines is that the guy was not out trying to prove a point, trying to show “the man” he has the right to carry, was not parading around with the intention of getting attention.

    He was merely returning from hunting.

  29. avatar crndl says:

    please post pix if you have them, thank you.

    1. avatar Matt in FL says:

      Of what?

    2. avatar Adam says:

      Did this just become an ARFCOM thread.

      In before the pics!

  30. avatar Jim Bullock says:

    The one piece of gear I’m not hearing about is the smartphone with a hands-free pic, video and upload app.

    If anybody knows of a good one of these for Android 4.1.2, I’d be glad for the recommendation.

    Calling the Sheriff is a good step. I wonder if a conversation with him/her or one of the friendly cops would be interesting now. “Hey, about that kerfuffle the other day. The way that escalated surprised the hell out of me. Can you help me understand what’s going on here?”

    1. avatar Matt in TX says:

      Police Tape is a free app. Put out by the ACLU NJ.

      https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.aclunj.policetape

      1. avatar Jim Bullock says:

        Thanks for the “police tape” app suggestion. That looked abandoned when I poked around – no maintenance in a long time. Anybody actually using it?

        I was kinda hoping for endorsement of one of the monitor and surveillance apps from the marketplace. Very wild-west there, crapware mixed in with stuff that could be professional.

        1. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

          The ACLU app crashes my phone when I try to capture video or audio. Anybody know another good app that happens to be free? I was always under the assumption that people who recorded interactions with LEOs might be baiting, but after what happened to me, I will probably record any I may have in the future. Rude awakening…

        2. avatar Jim Bullock says:

          “Police tape” reviews reporting crashes are what sent me to the marketplace to begin with. That and my A C L Ewwwwwwww problem. Looks like we’re out of luck w/ that app.

          If / when I find a satisfactory app, I’ll post in the comments of whatever goonery and buffoonery story is active here at the time. If I end up writing an app I’ll seek permission from our hosts / overlords here to post that fact. Not any time soon – I’m in the middle of something.

          /Nerddom

          There are a couple interesting open source projects implementing top to bottom encrypted “dark net” stacks. Two things tweak me about the ACLU app and IP-cam monitors. 1) Their transport sure looks insecure. 2) They’re using the built-in stack(s) and utilities.

          Net, you can monitor your webcam just fine, but there’s scant protection from somebody monitoring you as you do that, monitoring it without you, sniffing via a backdoor, tracing where you dumped the files you want to keep safe, implementing a man-in-the-middle to tweak the data stream etc. etc. Net, they’d be vulnerable to any established hack of the common protocols they use on the net, or the platform they run on. I’m not alone in suspecting that this could be a problem – see the current position of Micro$oft’s former Chief Privacy Officer.

  31. avatar CoolBreeze72 says:

    Every man must decide when it is prudent to exercise his rights. However, deny yourself too many times and soon you will not have a choice.

  32. avatar shawn says:

    Show some of those pics you took.

  33. avatar Brian says:

    So, whats a BUG?

    I’m not a hunter (yet) so excuse the stupid questions please. If you killed a deer, how would you have gotten it home? Those things are heavy, aren’t they?

    1. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

      BUG is an acronym for Back up gun. I had the BUG, a smaller caliber, for wildlife. And as I always carry my .40, it was in the holster on my hip like usual.

      I answered the question regarding getting a deer home earlier. It’s here somewhere…

      1. avatar rlc2 says:

        A BUG for coyote if your. 40 fails? What about your two long guns. You’re not much of a hunter are you….

        1. How would you know about hunting? Every comment you’ve made regarding hunting has been torn apart by other viewers. While small game hunting two days ago, I had a mechanically sound firearm fail because of the cold. The hammer spring broke when I pulled the trigger and my prey got away. Luckily, I had another gun so I could continue to hunt. Full of crap aren’t ya?

        2. avatar rlc2 says:

          Another excuse- broken springs? C’mon.
          Maybe you need to learn to maintain your gear better.
          Double pistol defense against the deadly WI coyote? Seriously?

          Please – another ad hominem? Typical pattern of denial that when combined with your juvenile whining about the female deputy who did you wrong, and the un-seemly verbal fellating of male authority figures, compounded by the self admission of fantasies of gun fights with LEOs, paints a disturbing picture, frankly.

          I mean this with sincerity: STFU and Get Some Help.

  34. avatar Gregg says:

    I’m not at all surprised by the LEOs action as Nathan mentioned in the article. She was obviously poorly trained. Nathan was quite right; minding his own business, safely secured his weapons, was obviously in hunting gear, etc. Next time I would suggest that you carry a printed copy of the law then hand it to her to read just to jerk her chain a bit harder.

    Here in Texas we like to think our LEOs are better trained except for the Good Old Boys who should have retired long ago and the newly arrived young LEOs fresh out of the academy. One example is the Good Ole Boy LEO who challenged the Sgt near Foot Hood, the delusional prosecutor, and the poorly educated jury who convicted him.

    Because of my advancing years and a back problem I walk with a cane made of wood. When I’m out walking in my neighborhood the LEOs patrol it frequently and wave when they pass by. They even stop to chat occasionally. While I have my CHL I typically don’t like to carry my gun when I’m just walking outside my home.

    Last week my wife and I were in the center of Texas Liberalism, Austin, TX and walking towards the capital building. Several times I used my cane to point out various interesting aspects of the building. A few minutes later several young LEOs that looked like they just graduated from high school pulled up asking to see the weapon that I had hidden under my coat; all the while with their hands on the butt of their holstered weapon. When I opened my coat to display my expanding waistline and my brand new dress belt holding up my pants they got really agitated and demanded to see my weapon. I informed them that I did not have any weapons on me and I asked them what this was all about.

    They said they had several calls from people driving by saying that I was pointing a rifle at the capital building and pointing it at cars passing by. I informed them that I was using my cane to point out several interesting features of the building and that it in no way resembled a rifle. At that point they informed me that if they received any more calls about me that I would be arrested for “disturbing the peace”. At that point I simple told them, “it’s obvious that I will then see you in court for violating my rights to peacefully walk down the sidewalk”.

    About 10 minutes later as we slowly made our way to the capital building another young LEO stopped us at the bottom of the steps to the building and said that since they received multiple calls about me having a rifle he was required to confiscate my cane. I informed him that my cane was a medical necessity to aid my walking and that I had every legal right to have and use it and that it in no way resembled a weapon. At that point I asked him to call his supervisor.

    Just then a Texas Ranger and a State Trooper, who were walking out of the building together, overheard the exchange. They walked up and casually asked the LEO what the problem was. As the LEO was explaining the complaints and that he was confiscating my cane both the Ranger and the Trooper burst out laughing so hard they started to turn red in the face.

    A few minutes later the LEO’s supervisor arrived and had a brief discussion with the Ranger and Trooper off to the side. While we couldn’t hear what was actually said it was quite obvious they were have a good laugh over the whole incident.

    The supervisor took the young LEO aside and had a short discussion with him. I could see the young LEOs jaw tighten and he looked our way several times. He was visibly angry at what the supervisor had to say and after a few minutes left the area with a brief screech of his patrol car’s tires.

    The supervisor apologized for the “unfortunate situation” and assured us that we would not be bothered any more. The rest of the visit was uneventful and we had a great time touring our capital building and meeting with some great people.

    The bottom line of our experience and the one that Nathan encountered demonstrates a growing concern that many or our young LEOs are being poorly trained in the Constitution, the law, and people skills. Instead, they appear to be trained to make-up whatever laws they want to fit their need of the moment then aggressively assert their power of authority over whomever they desire to intimidate. This lack of training then continues throughout their tenure as LEOs and further degrades the public safety. This is also exampled, all too painfully, by the number of killings of innocent people by LEOs and the reluctance by the police unions and DAs to hold them accountable. Yes, there have been a few prosecutions of LEOs gone bad recently; however, the overall track record or accountability is very poor.

    1. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

      Gregg, this is another thing I cant stand. lying to police is a crime, so prosecute it!!

  35. avatar Lars says:

    It’s amazing how different police reactions and behavior are toward open carry in the same state. In western WI I open carried almost everyday and my only incident with anyone was a concerned lady in her 40s when we were shopping at pick-n-save in Eau Claire. After we passed each other in a aisle she ended up running to and demanding the manager to call police which he did reluctantly, he sought me out and apologized right after he called them and warned me the police were coming, when the police did come they basically ignored me and focused on that lady with her young daughter who was becoming quite belligerent toward them after they told her it was legal for anyone to open carry unless store posted signs which they did not. Manager returned to me once again after I checked out and apologized again. Later I learned that the police almost arrested her and made her husband come pick her up as they were concerned for the young girl’s safety.
    In over 2 years of everyday open carry that is the only incident. Why police tend to freak out more on long guns I have no idea, especially if it’s hunting season. Madison is a liberal craphole and it seems the closer you are to Chicago the worse it gets for gun rights.

  36. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

    Upon closer inspection, I noticed that New Richmond is in the wrong location. 40 miles from Minneapolis, maybe. Madison is hours away. Lars, my experience with EC police as a child is very different from yours. I had the misfortune to meet the infamous officer Lee Xiong.

  37. avatar Accur81 says:

    I am sorry for your experience, but glad that you stood up for your rights. I was either hunting in Friesland, WI or Cedarburg Bog during that time. Fortunately, I didn’t have any issues.

  38. avatar AznMike says:

    Being that I grew up in Madison, it is pretty much a bunch of hipsters running around. I was weird growing up here since my family is pretty conservative (Dad being a 1st gen immigrant from China, pretty big supporter of the 2A) so going to school where its really liberal, was kinda hard to fit in. I mean seeing people cry during Obama’s inaugural speech speaks for itself. I swear of all the people I know in Madison and Milwaukee, there’s probably only a dozen or so of us who like guns.

  39. avatar Archon says:

    So he unsnapped his carry pistol….if this was a cop…and she attacked him…right or wrong, shooting her would not have improved your situation….

    1. avatar Nathan Pieters says:

      Neither would have just letting her kill me.

  40. avatar Anmut says:

    Nice work man…
    – Fellow ‘Sconnie

  41. rlc2, clearly you are an all knowing keyboard kommando. Tell you what: I’m going to fact check you just because you’re a moron. Click my name just on this post or type my blog address in. Broken P22, took the barrel extension off to send it in for warranty repairs. Pretty good condition for almost 15,000 rounds fired through it. Honestly surprised something didn’t break sooner considering it’s a $300 gun.
    BTW, I clean all my guns after firing them, even if it’s just one round.
    http://likeomggunsareforlosers.blogspot.com

    Go ahead and sputter more nonsense if you’d like. Every website has its’ village idiot. ;-). Goodnight sweetheart.

    P.S. it’s a picture of me squeezing the trigger on an empty chamber, safety off, magazine inserted but the hammer is still cocked. Not mechanically possible on a working firearm.
    I’ll name the post ‘rlc2 just for you.’

  42. avatar Rich Gun Guy says:

    Having to walk home after hunting is so junior high. Does your mommy drive you to the movies too? Get a second car tough guy.

    1. avatar Paul G. says:

      That was idiotic. Not everyone is a “rich gun guy”, and so long as he was within his rights, I would suggest that makes him of better character than you by a large factor. Have a nice day.

    2. avatar Matt in FL says:

      2/10: Your troll-fu is weak. Back to school for you.

  43. avatar mark smith says:

    I freaking go hunting all the time in the Betterly Wildlife places in new richmond, i live right off 140th and K. These cops here in new richmond are total pricks, they will put ur ass in the chain gang in a heartbeat! i too have the same WORLDS MOST SCARIEST RIFLE, the trusty mosin bolt action and they look at you like your a goddamn fugitive on americas most wanted. Im glad you didnt put up with there shit bud!

    1. Strangely enough, it wasn’t the New Richmond cops I had problems with. A few years before I moved here they would stop me and demand ID every time I was at the ball field or walking through town. Those particular officers are gone now and I’ve had pretty friendly interactions with them. They’ve been pretty cold towards me since the thing with deputy dipshit though. I’m betting they read this and now because of the deputy’s actions they are all suffering the consequences. Can’t demand trust though…

  44. avatar Mike says:

    You guys might want to be careful who you champion here. You’ve got one side of the story-his. He’s known on various internet forums under the screen name Wimwag, and he has quite the arrest record. The following link is Wisconsin’s court records. Any entries with a full birthday are criminal cases. My guess is that he open carries because he will get denied a CCW permit, and that’s hard to do here.

    https://wcca.wicourts.gov/pager.do;jsessionid=9A3AC03856ED0EF514AAA1BA13E1D734.render6?cacheId=67B1A37C05C0E102E86840CC5EB20C35&offset=0&sortColumn=0&sortDirection=DESC

    1. Lol I have the permit. I open carry when I want and conceal when I want. I do whichever because i can. That day I was concealing two handguns. Today I will conceal because it’s cold and I don’t feel like tucking my jacket in.

      ;-). Careful who you listen to Mike. Doug Huffman has been stalking me since this incident. PM the moderator on opencarry.org and ask. Or don’t and be the idiot you seem to be.

      Haters everywhere.

    2. I love it when people knee jerk and react a way they’re told to. My advice, read the article. The Sheriff sided with me. That guy would be the deputy’s boss. Top dog in the county. Have a nice day.

      By the way, permit number 124886. Molon labe

  45. avatar Andy E says:

    Anyone care to say where the snowball falls on this hill? We know it will be a monster by the time it hits bottom. I do believe it’d be smarter not to give it a push. I live it a heavy Caucasian pop. town in Kansas, being as I appear. I ain’t white to them,Cops, I can relate to the numerous pointless cop stops, harassment / racial profiling. I keep seeing mention of polls, ballots, voting etc to change things. How the hell do people think we got to this point to begin with?! I agree peaceful means are better and to outthink the opposition regardless its form. But….

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