FNS-40 Video Contest Entry: Four Self Defense Techniques by Dan Zimmerman | Dec 09, 2013 | 33 comments facebook twitter linkedin email comments vioshi says: December 9, 2013 at 12:49 Seems like it would be easier to draw and shoot the guy. Although the gun would be right next to your ear. Reply Frank Masotti says: December 9, 2013 at 13:12 Grab my neck, I pull my gun and give mag full of gut shoots. Reply Jus Bill says: December 9, 2013 at 13:22 Did you ever notice that in every one of these Ninja videos the aggressor just lies still for several seconds while the “victim” gets set up for the kill shot? Reply Peter says: December 9, 2013 at 14:02 I’m glad I watched that video so now I can do all of that stuff. Reply Dyspeptic Gunsmith says: December 9, 2013 at 14:03 Learn how to strike the groin – very forcefully – from whatever position you’re in. It’s a staple move of harder martial arts styles like Kenpo. Reply Peter says: December 9, 2013 at 14:11 And also a staple move of my 8 year-old nephew. Reply Accur81 says: December 9, 2013 at 17:59 That’s a staple move of most ex-wives. After the groin attack comes the checkbook attack, and that is very difficult to defend against. Reply Paul W. says: December 9, 2013 at 18:06 I’ll take a dozen groin attacks over one competent checkbook attack rlc2 says: December 9, 2013 at 14:17 Nice vid- thanks Dan. Self defense with a gun is part of a continuum, IMHO, that is a lifetime hobby and worthy pursuit for self-enlightenment. Very part-time over the years martial arts student here who is finding the move to adding practical self-defense gun use to grappling to be very smart and practical, as I get older, slower, less flexible, and interested in much more, especially from real-world MMA fighters with practical gun field experience. Thats rare, and in the meantime I am always looking to find that source. As a Kali resident with no likely access to CCW for some time, due to the local sheriff May Issue interpretation, I’m working instead on getting in better shape and updating some old habits, and am especially attracted to krav maga, for its background from the field, vs the beautiful but somewhat impractical kicks and kata of my former japanese and korean karate study. One quibble- speaking as a one-time decent wrestler, with a bit of formal judo, I have to say I just cringed at that move at 2:20 – maybe I missed something but falling backward with the body weight of your attacker holding you in a locked reverse half nelson looks like a REALLY good way to break your own neck…not sure I would even advocate practicing this move in a dojo under supervision…much less online. Maybe I missed something- but, Why not just draw and point shoot to the gut/groin/femoral artery/knee or even opposite foot? Any of those would be faster and break the lock, and if your head were tucked under the other guys side, you could shoot to off-side, by feel if necessary, if hearing damage is the concern. Humbly awaiting enlightenment from sensei’s with real world experience… Reply rlc2 says: December 9, 2013 at 14:20 One more quibble: blue gun. Much cheaper than the lawsuit. Reply Jeff in Tacoma says: December 9, 2013 at 14:49 As a person who has taken Krav Maga I have to say it is the best martial art I have taken. When it comes to drawing down on an assailant it is extremely important to create distance before drawing. The most important thing about gun retention is to never give you opponent the slightest opportunity, that is don’t draw until you are out of arms reach. Now if you carry a knife that is completely different, you would want to utilize that as soon as possible. Also the techniques in the above video are good, but as we learned in Krav nut strikes are highly effective, as are eye gouges, and other potential weaknesses. For instance at the point where she is facing the opponent and in a guillotine choke, she is perfectly positioned to deliver some effective groin strikes or grab, twist, and rip. It is called disarming an opponent in all ways possible. 🙂 Reply rlc2 says: December 9, 2013 at 22:58 Back out to gain shooting distance is the key practical tip I picked up from the Navy Seal trainer. Reply Cliff H says: December 9, 2013 at 14:55 Here’s your “real world experience”. I’m a 63 year old OFWG. My years of engaging ANY sort of MMA style fighting or defense, much less spending hours practicing same, are long past. That’s why I carry the gun. In “Enter the Dragon” even Bruce Lee asked as a first question, “Why not just shoot this guy?” before being informed he was going to be in a gun free zone. The MAJORITY of people either cannot or will not train to anything even remotely close to the basic MMA level younger people pick up from TV and/or horsing around with friends, much less at local gyms. Grandma and Grandpa cannot be expected to practice breaking full naked headlocks. In such a position, and many other MMA holds, your only reasonable defense is to 1) Avoid contact if at all possible to prevent the hold, and 2) Draw your weapon at the earliest reasonable point in the confrontation and if the attacker continues to close within danger range (21 feet?) shoot the SOB, a lot. Reply rlc2 says: December 9, 2013 at 15:11 Thanks. I can relate. I like this scene more and more as I get older: Reply Jus Bill says: December 9, 2013 at 15:44 Or, if you’re a VOFWG and live in a gun-free “Paradise,” carry a knife and/or remember how to fight VERY dirty. I will do everything in my [limited] power to be the one who walks away. Reply Bdk NH says: December 9, 2013 at 17:58 These may be great techniques and I am sure the instructors are highly skilled but if you (expert or not) get into these positions on the street you are in serious trouble. They are VERY unlikely to work for the average un-trained person. I was a decent wrestler with about 8 years of martial arts training including some dabbling in Sambo long before MMA was cool. I was far from being an expert and even though my time has passed, unless you are a seriously skilled wrestler/mma fighter if I get you in a front head lock/choke (or especially a reverse choke on the ground) it is check mate. If someone gets me in those positions in a street fight it is a survival situation and I would suggest you act accordingly. The scary thing is, 20 years ago, probably 1 in 10 people had this type of training or skill, especially the ground fighting techniques. These days, kids (including the hoodlums) see MMA on TV, practice it with their buddies and know enough to be dangerous. My point is, do not get into any of those positions. Diffuse, avoid, run, kick, scream, stab, and finally shoot if you must but don’t let it get that far. Reply Jamaal says: December 9, 2013 at 14:20 As a black belt in BJJ and also a professional mma fighter this woman is spot on. If you have never been choked or strangled you just don’t realize how strong the sensation is. I would never draw my weapon while still grappling with someone nor would I draw my weapon while someone has me a split second from passing out. First thing is to clear my neck. Then I can draw. Also groin strikes just don’t work. Everyone is looking for the groin strike then you have to hope you hit the area just right. Arts that focus on eye poking and crotch kicking are just unrealistic. Modern day mma has shown us the arts that apply to fighting: bjj, judo, wrestling, boxing, and kickboxing. Basicslly, the arts that allow ppl to spar 100% and come back tomorrow and do it again. Tough to fake eye pokes and pull it off in a real street encounter once the bad guy has smashed your knows. Even more difficult to eye poke your training partner and have them show up tomorrow so you can then poke his/her last good idea. Great techniques. Remember ma’am ppl here do not train typically so do not take their cluelessness to heart. Reply Jamaal says: December 9, 2013 at 14:23 Rlc2, She was in a guillotine choke not a reverse half Nelson. Reply rlc2 says: December 9, 2013 at 14:49 thanks my bad- best I could come up with not knowing the term- see below. Reply rlc2 says: December 9, 2013 at 14:48 Thanks Jamaal with great respect for your experience and achievements. I have read that BJJ is one of the most practical and effective, and early on Mr Gracie won repeatedly. Just as in wresting, judo, and other martial arts there are rules in MMA that prevent some moves and some real-world full-on contact as just too risky. And I think you would admit that ones training partner learns to hold back, roll with the move, and generally avoid doing things that are not going to hurt you. As you say- you cant practice true eye gouges and groin strikes dont always work. Is this a risky manuever that works in BJJ dojos and in the MMA ring, where conditioning prevents injury, but might not in real world for the majority of us clueless type folks? Pardon my ignorance- but I still dont see how the falling backwards move breaks the “guillotine” neck lock – I watched and re-watched and all I could glean was the assertion that “the attacker will let go to catch his fall”. What if he doesnt? What if he is drunk and slow to release, like in a bar fight? What if he outweighs you by 200 # and falls flat on you? I’m not as flexible as I used to be, and it looks like a near 90 degree bend on my neck, potentially, if he has that locked in hard and tight. I’m asking sincerely- with apologies if I offend, by mistake. Reply rlc2 says: December 9, 2013 at 14:56 PS: one other question- and this is obviously situationally dependent- but very respectfully interested in your thoughts as a fighter- I have seen in real world (personal experience) that fights often go to the ground fast, and he who can wrestle best wins- chokeholds arm bars, etc. Wrestling has gotten me out of a couple tight spots more than jabbing and punching, which takes technique, lots of practice, and even it works, leaves you with a broken knuckle if you hit the skull. In a LOT of real world sometimes theres more than one attacker- and I personally want to stay on my feet more and more as I get older. The gun is a force multiplier both in close and at mid-range- so I’m really interested in how to fight in close with it, including getting it out of a holster while in a grapple, punching with it, controlling the other persons gun, and generally keeping on my feet if I can, so I can contend with his buddy(ies) if need be. Its not going to be a fair fight and once you are on the ground, the videos of real riots show a lot of stomping and kicking with no refs holding them back… Reply Cliff H says: December 9, 2013 at 15:08 While I cannot and will not argue that these techniques night be effective, I have several problems with this mind-set, and I have seen it before. 1. What percentage of people could ACTUALLY learn and practice these moves, realistically? 2. Of those people, how many would be able to respond appropriately in a real-life emergency situation? 3. What LARGE percentage of middle-age or older, non-athletic, non-aggressive people could use these techniques, even if they wanted to try? Old, fat, injured, little old ladies? The list is huge. 4. The point of carrying the pistol is it puts you on a relative level with everyone else on the street, with a minimum of fuss, bother, and dojo bravado. For ALMOST everyone, once you have dithered long enough to be in that choke hold, the fight is over. Situational awareness is THE key to survival. Reply rlc2 says: December 9, 2013 at 15:13 Yup. Another key realization from a Navy Seal trainer: training is perishable… Mindet in practice = SA and the 3 S’s. Reply Jus Bill says: December 9, 2013 at 15:46 “Mindset in practice = SA and the 3 S’s.” Corrected and correct. EVERYTHING is a weapon. rlc2 says: December 9, 2013 at 23:22 Starting with attitude and will to survive. What I learned in SERE school from the VIETNAM POWs- the single distinguishing characteristic common to all was the will: TO NEVER EVER GIVE UP. Jamaal says: December 9, 2013 at 16:04 All relevant questions rlc2. Not taking anything away from the woman but what she is doing is taken purely from the Gracie Combative Curriculum. It’s not like she is some martial wizard, no offense ma’am. She is just formally trained. And pretty precise I must add. The Gracie curriculum is actually the foundation of MAC (modern army combatives created by SGT. Matt Larson) and also MCMAP( marine corps martial arts program). My suggestion would be get a partner and have them put you in the guillotine. You are using all of your force to attack their grip. If they don’t let go once you fall back to your guard you are out of the choke anyway bc you cannot finish the guillotine from within a person’s guard( their legs wrapped around you). The defense she picked is generally used by a small person. If she were a 200lbs man her response would be different. there is a chance of her injuring her tailbone if she landed on a curb or rock in the street, but I’d rather chance a bruised derrière over getting choked out or choked to death. Also, you will notice that she always got back to her feet. Even if she was on top of the bad guy. Very good street awareness. Cliff, The Gracie self defense curriculum was devised for older, weaker, heavy, an for less strength enhanced genders. you are 100% correct. IT HAS TO BE TRAINED TO BE PART OF YOUR MUSCLE MEMORY. sadly you are also correct that many ppl will NEVER seek out a REPUTABLE instructor. We all need to. Also, we cannot rely our pistol all the time. There are many places we cannot take them. In addition, a lot of attacks come by shock. Right now kids are playing “the knockout game” where they sucker punch unsuspecting adults. What if next month it is the “choke out game?” Reply Kittenfists says: December 9, 2013 at 19:00 With all due respect, what she is doing is not purely taken from the Gracie combatives program. She starts out with something that resembles a Gracie Jiu Jitsu move, and then spins wildly off track. I have spent the past 4 years training Gracie Jiu Jitsu with a very well respected black belt, that has lineage directly back to Helio Gracie, the founder of Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Everything she does in this video is incorrect, and could get someone hurt in the street. The guillotine choke is done all wrong, and that’s the wrong defense anyway. The three other moves are all done from the wrong position, and would never work on a resisting opponent. I only say this because she put it out for public consumption, and I would hate for anyone to see this video and think this could be done in a fight. Gracie Jiu Jitsu, when done correctly, is the most complete form of self defense there is. But, the details do matter, and this was done all wrong. Reply Accur81 says: December 9, 2013 at 18:16 MMA is a great tool to have in self defense, especially if access to a firearm is not readily available. A knife fighting course is also highly beneficial. It is often wise to create space prior to drawing, but not always possible. A carotid choke hold can cause unconsciousness in about 10 seconds and can cause death shortly thereafter. Any response that is not effective in the first 10 seconds probably won’t end well against a determined attacker. Lethal force definitely an appropriate response. Were I be attacked by a choke hold, my very first response would be to either block or lessen the choke. The next response would be lethal force if I was armed. With my gun on my right side and a knife on my left side, I could potentially use lethal force even if one of my hands was blocked. Police officers practice one handed draws, although most aren’t experts. Although firearms do offer a fair amount of equalization, experienced MMA fighters are very dangerous at bad breath distances. I am by no means an expert in the matter, but I have been in a few fights and have trained for a few years in various martial arts. These days, most of my training is cross fit and shooting, and changing poopy diapers. I am an expert in the latter, which truly requires a courageous mindset. Reply rlc2 says: December 9, 2013 at 23:10 Thank you for that real world LEO insight, A81, and also to you Jamaal- RESPECT. PS: also proud to say I have earned my PhD in Poop Management. This teaches one humility, grasshopper. Reply Jamaal says: December 9, 2013 at 21:37 I hate internet pissing matches but it seems like kittenfists has questioned my credentials: 2010 Champion Canadian Open Abu Dhabi Pro Qualifier as Black Belt 2007 Pan-American Jiu-Jitsu Champion as Purple Belt 2006 Pan-American Jiu-Jitsu 3rd Place winner as Purple Belt Relson Gracie National’s 2006 No-Gi Champion Relson Gracie National’s 2006 Purple Belt Champion Relson Gracie National’s 2005 Purple Belt Champion Relson Gracie National’s 2003 Blue Belt Champion Relson Gracie National’s 2002 Blue Belt Champion Relson Gracie National’s 2001 White Belt Champion Ohio University Wrestling Team Ohio University Boxing Team I trained under Relson Gracie and I have his brother Royce teach at my school each year. I run my school as my full-time job. Fighting is not a recreation for me. What she is doing is sound Reply Kittenfists says: December 10, 2013 at 14:29 You hate internet pissing matches, and yet you couldn’t wait to post your credentials. Even though I never actually called them into question. Seems legit. What does trained under Relson mean exactly? Did he give you your black belt? And congrats on having Royce in for a seminar, he’ll give those anywhere that’s willing to pay him for his time. I’ve done seminars with Ryron, Renner, and even Rorion. Big deal. That’s an impressive list of sport tournament victories. Even assuming it’s legit, that has absolutely nothing to do with self defense Jiu Jitsu. I would expect someone who trained under Relson to know that. The moves shown are incorrect, and most certainly not “sound”. I don’t expect you to argue with me, and don’t care if you do. If you trained under Relson, then please refer to his father’s , Helio Gracie, master text. It’s no big deal, he’s just the guy that invented the art.You will find the proper application of, and defense to, the guillotine on pages 64-73. I’m only posting this so that people don’t try this should they ever need it. You will absolutely hurt yourself at the most inopportune time possible. Also, is Jamaal you’re real first name? Just curious so I can check on your list of accolades. Reply Kittenfists says: December 10, 2013 at 15:26 Oh wait. Never mind, I got it. These are your students. That’s what this is all about. Reply Camo229 says: December 10, 2013 at 09:43 Cool vid but real fights aren’t that choreographed and the weight of your opponent really determines what techniques you can use. You don’t have to follow MMA rules in a real attack, plus those were all super soft hand techniques meant for minimal damage to your attacker. Crotch strikes, trachea strikes, eye claws and biting are quick and painful ways to break out of a hold if you are ambushed and can’t easily reach your gun or knife, and they work on everybody. Better yet be aware and draw before they get too close. And there’s no such thing as cheating in self defense. 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