Elie Mystal of abovethelaw.com (courtesy leerobertson.blogspot.com)

TTAG thoroughly debunked an Australian “study” linking American gun ownership with racism. But we’re not stupid. Once flawed stats that demean, diminish or defame American gun owners hit the ‘net the civilian disarmament industry’s all over it like a cheap suit. Case in point: Elie Mystal over at abovethelaw.com. Not only does the Harvard grad turned litigator turned self-professed “online provocateur” take the Ozzie study at face value—and then some—he returns to the convoluted argument that the Second Amendment was created by racists for racists . . .

There’s an argument that the Second Amendment itself was adopted to defend slavery. Please note: I don’t agree with this argument. I think the Second Amendment was adopted because we’d just fought a war that we couldn’t have won without the martial powers of citizens militias. That’s why “A well regulated Militia” is right in the text of the Amendment (a phrase modern gun nuts are quick to gloss over). But it’s clear that widespread gun ownership helped white plantation owners keep control of their slaves. And the right to bear arms was certainly useful when it came time to “settle” additional territory away from the people who were already living there. Gun rights, who has them, and who does not, are inextricably tied to our history of racial oppression.

That’s a whole lot of fail in one paragraph, including ye olde misinterpretation of the Second Amendment’s prefatory clause (all of the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights are individual rights). And the ensuing exactly-ass-backwards idea that gun rights helped slave holders defend the practice—rather than facing the fact that gun control was key to the economic and political disenfranchisement, rape, torture, mutilation and murder of African Americans.

But it’s Mystal’s dissembling I find most egregious. “I don’t agree with this argument” he demurs while promoting and, ultimately, approving the argument (including a link to truthout.com‘s essay on the subject). Civilian disarmament proponents who cloak themselves in the mantle of intellectual discourse—even as they use every trick in the book to avoid its rigor—are more than hypocrites and liars. They are propagandists bent on our destruction.

Let’s not forget that racists are often quite stupid, and stupid people are the ones most resistant to facts about how gun ownership leads to homicide instead of preventing it. Stupid racists are least likely to understand (or care) how “stand your ground” laws are simply a way for whites to justify the killing of black people. Most of the best arguments in favor of gun control are lost on the very kinds of racist people who own guns.

So people who seek to defend and extend their natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms are too stupid to realize that they’re racists. Stupid racists. Oh and any black man who supports firearms freedom (i.e. Colion Noir) is an Uncle Tom. Or worse.

The study focused on white gun ownership, but I’d bet that if you looked at black gun ownership, you’d find a similar pattern: the more racist black people are (whether it’s racism towards white people, other races, or even black-on-black racism), the more likely they are to own a gun.

Mystal’s bio page says he’s “written editorials for the New York Daily News and the New York Times, and he has appeared on both MSNBC and Fox News without having to lie about his politics to either news organization.” For some reason, I find that last bit particularly frightening. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with the color of Mr. Mystal’s skin.

83 Responses to Elie Mystal: Gun Owners Are Stupid Racists

  1. WRONG! The KKK and gun control were created by white southern democrats to keep blacks and white republicans from defending themselves after the civil war with the goal of reestablishing white supremacy. Even Wikipedia has a pretty good grasp of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan
    Will someone please ask this tool to explain how that Colion Noir and / or all the black & latino guys at my range are racists? What a moron!

    • Yes, the dems created the KKK then they wanted to make sure the KKK members wouldn’t get shot so they went heavy-handed on gun control. One thing he’s missing in that fist paragraph is the definition of a person, which he should know if he went to law school. A legal person has rights, slaves were not considered a legal person and had no rights.

      Gun owners aren’t racist, the mythical “old-fat-white-guy” they equate with “gun owner” is a racist. They are saying the racist stereotype they created is racist and then neatly define every gun owner as that character. That’s a pretty powerful tool because they can say gun owners are whatever they want to say that day, they create the definition and then echo it until the masses believe it because they haven’t heard or seen anything else. They say gun owners are racists, sexist, pedophiles, psychos, rednecks, old, fat, doomsday preppers, and whatever else they feel like that day. They create the stereotype then reinforce it so much they don’t even know the reality. Are there people that own guns that are crazy, racist, sexist or any of the other categories above? Yes, because gun ownership transcends those categories. People are gun owners, people from all walks of life and all backgrounds. Their logic equates to, “all Honda drivers are Asian”, “all trucks are driven by rednecks”, or “all minivans are driven by soccer moms”. They’re just stupid stereotypes founded in hate meant to demean and degrade anyone that supports guns, which makes them just as discriminatory and hateful as the racists they label gun owners as.

  2. 1. Slavery existed long before guns. Whips, swords, laws, and big bad slave masters made slavery possible.
    2. America didn’t invent slavery. I think liberals think we did.

    • True that. It would appear that at some point in history EVERY SINGLE RACE, regardless of color, has at some point been enslaved by someone, either of a different race or even the same race. Slavery is not and never has been specifically about race, it is about disregarding the human rights and dignity of some other person or group of persons because you have the power to do so, and then to force those persons into servitude for your benefit with no regard to theirs.

      How quickly these modern race baiters forget that white men did not go into the interior of Africa and capture negroes for slaves. Those future slaves were in almost every case captured and sold into slavery by other negro tribes. As despicable as slave trading and slave ownership was in the colonies, it could not have happened without the mercenary collusion of other Africans. And it would not have happened if the enslaved persons had had the right and the power to defend themselves.

      Is it really necessary to point out that no sane non-black person would go into a predominantly black neighborhood where armed gangs are known to exist and proclaim him/herself an anti-negro racist? That would be stupidity beyond what Mr. Mystal is suggesting because those people would react to defend themselves — WITH GUNS! That’s how it works. If you are not adequately armed and prepared to defend your own right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, then you are bound at some point to become a slave, as so many are now slaves on the Democrat welfare plantation.

      • By your definition of slavery most of America still is enslaved, however, it’s gone from self-proclaimed slave owners to corporations. I can’t say I disagree, although in ways slave owners cared more about the well-being of their “workers” than corporations. And guess which group of people end up with the least consideration and potential? History tends to repeat itself if no one is paying attention. Seems they’re only interested in the quick score in race-related lawsuits or government handouts. I’ve worked with some people from that demographic that are hard-working, but mostly that’s not the case. Africans (from Africa) on the other hand are one of the hardest working group of people I have ever met, though. Seems the ones that need to be reminded of the American Dream are Americans.

        • Really Fred; it wasn’t Walmart, or Target, or Halliburton, or Apple that has out put a gun to my head and told me to buy a product or I will be forced to pay a fine, a “tax” and if refuse to pay the “Tax” I will be arrested and if I refuse to go to jail because I refuse to buy health insurance I will be gunned down by the state enforcers; the Government has done this.

          It is government trying to take my gun rights, not corporations; you Fred; because of your complete and utter lack of wisdom, ( it was Mao that said power comes from the barrel of a gun) that you worship at the feet of the true enslaver and mass murderer, government.

          You Fred, are the enabler of all mass murder committed by government, because you actually believe your own propoganda that giving power to government will keep you safe fron some amorphous “corporation”.

          Do corporations pay off politicians to pass laws favoring corporations? Of course, but that’s the point, it’s politicians with the power to pass laws that is the danger to our. freedoms; not a corporation that has to depend on a voluntary buying of their product, underline voluntary.

          Now, because of peoples support of intrusive and controlling government, we have become that much less free.

        • H Really Fred; it wasn’t Walmart, or Target, or Halliburton, or Apple that has out put a gun to my head and told me to buy a product or I will be forced to pay a fine, a “tax” and if refuse to pay the “Tax” I will be arrested and if I refuse to go to jail because I refuse to buy health insurance I will be gunned down by the state enforcers; the Government has done this.

          It is government trying to take my gun rights, not corporations

          Do corporations pay off politicians to pass laws favoring corporations? Of course, but that’s the point, it’s politicians with the power to pass laws that is the danger to our. freedoms; not a corporation that has to depend on a voluntary buying of their product, underline voluntary.

          Now, because of peoples support of intrusive and controlling government, we have become that much less free.

        • ThomasR

          The Government is one of the largest corporations under the guise of the protector of order and civilization. It is less well-run than most other corporations. Your comment assumes too much and proves the old adage.

    • Also: guns only supported slavery because the slaves weren’t allowed to own guns as well. In other words the situation described is, in fact, gun control.

      • Yes I missed the caveat in the 2nd Amendment that stipulated, “oh, except black people”.

        May the ghost of Crispus Attucks kick this guy in the nuts while he sleeps.

  3. Never thought I’d see abovethelaw on TTAG or vice-versa. How many lawyers are there on this comment board? Btw, for non-lawyers who may not be familiar with abovethelaw, Mystal is an idiot. But I bet you’ve figured that out already.

    • Can’t imagine getting through Harvard Law as an idiot, but I understand your hyperbole. I think Mr. Mystal is just suffering from that “None so blind…” syndrome. Whatever his actual intelligence quotient, he has allowed himself, no, he has volunteered for the position of “Useful Idiot.”

      • Barack Obama got through Harvard Law, and Barack Obama ain’t impressing anyone with his intellectual acumen.

        QED, it is possible to get through Harvard Law as an idiot.

        • Given the detailed references you made, an IDIOT or more did graduate from Harvard. Odumba our liar and campaigner in chief.

          Thank God is was retired from Army before this SOB took over!

    • I concur with this sentiment – the guy is a moron, and referred to as Elie Mys(ttt)al – third tier toilet lawyer extraordinaire. Nobody takes his posts seriously, and is a mental midget compared to the other writers on that site. This isn’t the first time (nor, unfortunately, will it be the last time) he’s shown himself to be a fool.

    • Esquire here. Yes, Mystal is an entitled brat who couldn’t cut it at Biglaw and incessantly complains about the size of his Harvard student loans. Zero accountability. So what does he do to make money? He starts a blog about big law firms and their culture. He’s essentially a vengeful junior who got cut from the varsity squad who insists on showing up at all the pep rally and telling everybody how better the team would be if he were on it.

  4. The fact that this asshole is a “Harvard grad” proves that a Harvard diploma is not worth the paper that it’s printed on.

  5. I saw his Fox appearance, if I remember correctly. His arguments were so empty that I was embarrassed for him. He made Fox’s own lefty chin wags (Juan Williams and Bob Beckel) look brilliant by comparison. I’ll leave Kirsen Powers out of it. I find her world view to be messed up, but at least she’s not a total lightweight.

  6. I like reading Above The Law (it’s a guilty pleasure which frequently reinforces why I chose not to pursue a career in the legal profession) but in this case Elie is stupendously wrong. As he has the right to be, as it’s his soapbox.

    If I recall correctly, this isn’t the first time he’s stirred up a hornet’s nest with stuff like this, nor will it be the last. He is, IMHO, an intellectually honest sort and I’ve seen ATL post links to pro-2A counterpoint views over at Volokh Conspiracy.

  7. “…self-professed “online provocateur” take the Ozzie study at face value…”

    It’s Aussie, not Ozzie, unless you were trying to make some play on words that I didn’t get.

    • Many people, including Aussies, like to refer to Australia as “Oz”, so Ozzie would indeed be a pun on that pun.

    • I once gave a Christmas gift to an australian who was nicknamed “Ozzy,” however on the wrapping I wrote “Aussie” and it was pointed out to me that this was wrong. It wasn’t pointed out to me what was right, however. He was kind of a dick if i’m honest.

  8. I think it’s amusing how these people latch onto the “well regulated militia” phrase, and then take the mental tumble that it means the State should thus regulate the militia. As soon as they utter that argument, it becomes clear that they have no grasp of the concept that a tyrannical, corrupt government could exist – or that the people might possibly have a need to overthrow it.

    • I like how they think pro-second amendment people gloss over the militia clause and don’t care about it.

      If my state had a citizen’s militia that was non-deployable outside the US, overseen by the governor, and required you to keep and bear arms I would probably volunteer for it.

      The National Guard/State Guard is not a militia. It is part of the official army.

      I’m sure most leftists would work hard to shoot down the idea if it was ever seriously proposed.

      • 10 U.S.C. § 311 : US Code – Section 311: Militia: composition and classes

        (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied
        males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section
        313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a
        declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States

        and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the
        National Guard.
        (b) The classes of the militia are –
        (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard
        and the Naval Militia; and
        (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of
        the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the
        Naval Militia.

        – See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/10/A/I/13/311#sthash.C3OL8RqA.dpuf

      • There is a tinfoil hat wearing part of me that wonders if the mutation of the meaning of “regulated” from “kept and supplied” to “overseen by government” is some kind of progressive long game for the purpose of weakening the 2A. I would think it totally nuts if the progressive mantra wasn’t “evolution, not revolution”.

    • You just have to ask them about the cases where the government actively try to make militias look like terrorist organizations to the extent of planting radical members that make death threats on behalf of the organization. Can you trust the government to regulate militias in a fair manner when they actively try to destroy and vilify them now?
      They say modern arms were not considered by the founding fathers, so why is it the militia clause remains protected but the firearm has qualifiers? If you want to have the modern equivalent of a militia you have groups like the NRA, GOA, local shooting clubs, or even firearm classes. They are flexible, I will give them that. They need to be to perform such mental gymnastics. For them the answer is always the same for any issue, “because”. Because they think so, because they know better, because they feel a certain way. Never mind reality.

  9. Elie Mystal? If he marries Crystal Ball, she’ll be Crystal Mystal . . . . ..

    And the right to bear arms was certainly useful when it came time to “settle” additional territory away from the people who were already living there. OK, genius, did the right to bear arms help the people who were already living there? Perhaps it kept the invaders from taking their property.

    Gun rights, who has them, and who does not, are inextricably tied to our history of racial oppression.
    Mmmmm, yeah . . .I’m gonna have to go ahead & disagree with ya there, Bob. You see, my thinking is that gun CONTROL, who does it, and who does not, is inextricably tied to our history of racial oppression.

    • “And the right to bear arms was certainly useful when it came time to “settle” additional territory away from the people who were already living there.”

      It must be said that there were far too many injustices and even crimes committed against the American Indians in the expansion of European immigrants across this continent. But for the most part the Indians were nomadic. They may have utilized the territory, but in many cases, except for short sojourns, they did not “live” there.

      By whatever means it was accomplished, and if ANY of my ancestors had been involved I would gladly apologize for their excesses, from the time the first Pilgrims landed in New England and survived, the conquest of this continent by white settlers was inevitable. It is unfortunate that it could not have been accomplished by peaceful assimilation of the natives, but as I recall the Indians kept and bore arms in an obstinate defense against that assimilation. (Okay, insert Borg joke here.)

  10. “The rifle has ever been the companion of the pioneer and, under God, his tutelary protector against the red man and the beast of the forest. Never was this efficient weapon more needed in just self-defence, than now in Kansas, and at least one article in our National Constitution must be blotted out, before the complete right to it can in any way be impeached. And yet such is the madness of the hour, that, in defiance of the solemn guarantee, embodied in the Amendments to the Constitution, that ‘the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed,’ the people of Kansas have been arraigned for keeping and bearing them, and the Senator from South Carolina has had the face to say openly, on this floor, that they should be disarmed—of course, that the fanatics of Slavery, his allies and constituents, may meet no impediment.” The Crime Against Kansas, May 19–20, 1856, in American Speeches: Political Oratory from the Revolution to the Civil War 553, 606–607 (2006).

    As quoted in DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, et al., PETITIONERS v.
    DICK ANTHONY HELLER, SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES

    • By the way, in researching a story about the wagon trains I discovered an interesting statistic: In the period of greatest western migration by wagon train, 1848 – 1860, 22 years, fewer than 450 white immigrants out of the many tens of thousands were killed by native Indians, while many thousands died of exposure, cholera, starvation, accidental injuries and internal squabbles. The statistic for the number of Indians killed during this period were not given, but it was mentioned that except for some notable historical examples the Plains Indians in particular often did their best to avoid contact with these settlers. Depredations occurred on both sides, of course, but not even close to the degree depicted in our Westerns.

      • It seems to me that the four-percenters get their perception of reality straight out of Hollywood. They seem to think of the “wild west’ as it was depicted in westerns. They always seem to describe AR-15s as ‘blasting’ things or “cutting people to ribbons”, despite it being pointed out that an AR-15 is a single-round-per-pull-of-the-trigger rifle just like any other, and not a machinegun. Most of the time if you show them an image of an AR-15 and an image of a Ruger Mini-14 Ranch they will have no issue with the Ranch, but nobody ‘needs’ the AR-15.

        It is almost as if they are all weak-willed and hypnotized. (insert image of hyno-frog)

  11. Man, this back-and-forth is really making my ass drag. How about we just settle this once and for all. Everyone divide up into two groups (with a third of “undecided”). Group 1 would agree with this statement: Civil rights are bestowed on people by the state and the state can determine what rights individuals can have; the rights of the many outweigh the rights of the few. Group 2 would agree with this statement: Civil rights belong to individuals for no other reason than individuals exist and the state exists only to protect those rights.

    Then lets just duke it out – their weapons against ours. I am tired of being called a nut, a whack job, a racist, and a degenerate because I believe the single greatest ambition for any person is to be a true, old-school American patriot. This is just getting ridiculous. Let’s decide (again) whether we are Americans or some weak-kneed, ass-kissing, pouting Europeans.

  12. He simply ignores the facts that slaves have been around for thousands of years before guns were even invented??? He seems to blame continual oppression on firearms which are relatively new??? He also ignores the fact that some of the first gun control laws were against blacks, to help “keep them in their place” down south??? All of us “gun nuts” recognize that to be a bad thing, it was written by democrats, just like the oppressive jim crow laws.

    I’ve seen him on fox news, he’s heavily biased and not very objective. I don’t understand how he went to Harvard, he doesn’t seem intelligent enough to understand that there are 2 sides to everything, and he does seem like a racist himself. He’s got a predisposition against whitey.

    And no, i’m not black or white. But that’s how i see him, like many blacks so quick to pull out the race card. (I.E. Kanye West) Instead of people who happen to be black, which actually look at everyone in neutral, then based on their words and actions, figure out that they’re racist. You shouldn’t go looking for it. Sure, there are racist gun owners, but there are also racist NAACP members as well. But you don’t call an entire group of people stupid and racist for the action of a few. That’s the whole idea of equality and tolerance.

  13. Ya we are so stupid that had we not intervened and gave Australia,guns,they would be speaking Japenese! Now they suffer high crime rate since the banning of firearms.Those who don’t own guns are ignorant to facts and once they know the facts are stupid!

  14. The problem with this guy, I think, is that he’s never been around these “stupid racist” gun owners. I’ve spent my whole life around them… and most of them aren’t stupid or racist. But to know that, you’d have to find the courage to go interact with people who didn’t agree with everything you think and say. I think this guy’s worldview is very small. He should change that before he jumps to conclusions.

  15. The Second Amendment is racist, affirmative action and racial preferences aren’t racist, gun control wasn’t for the purpose of suppressing black but gun rights are? What fvcking planet is this guy from?

    Oh, wait. HARVARD. ‘Nuff said. Moscow on the Charles.

  16. According to a book that many regard as infallible, my ancestors were slaves in the land of Egypt. While I don’t expect any reparations, I do keep myself well armed and trained to avoid any further intrusions on my independence. If any groups should rejoice in the rights protected by the Second Amendment, it should be the blacks and the Jews, who should well understand the consequences of being unarmed/disarmed.

  17. The only dumb racist I see here is Mr.Mystal. How else could you explain his support for obvious incompetent President who had economically set back the black community by 50 years. If Obama were white Mystal would be screaming racist at the top his lungs.

  18. If ignorance, stupidity and bigotry are the hallmarks of being a gun owner, then Mr. Mystal should have a very impressive armory.

  19. Please remind me,
    why make blacks ~75% of all gun death victims, while being around 12% of population?
    And also around ~75% of the murderers of blacks are … black.

  20. “Let’s not forget that racists are often quite stupid, and stupid
    people are the ones most resistant to facts about how gun
    ownership.”

    I couldn’t agree more Mr. Mystal. You’ve just described
    yourself and the whole anti-gun movement perfectly.

  21. WTF is black on black racism? What a surprise. This human thinks he’s smarter than the rest of us. Humans are always good for a laugh, on a daily basis.

  22. “Gun rights, who has them, and who does not, are inextricably tied to our history of racial oppression.”

    The only true sentence in that stupid paragraph. Just look at Chicago, New York, and LA/ Oakland. Gun laws specifically designed to outlaw poor minority ownership. I wonder how he sleeps at night? “On a large pile of money, surrounded by naked women.” Suppose that would help stop those pangs of conscience.

  23. Doesnt he realize that most black people are killed by other black people. It is almost a guarantee that when you find someone who is crying about racism they are actually some of the biggest racists out there, just against whites, but I guess it is only racism when you are against blacks, oriental, mexican etc. I guess they dont consider Caucasian a race.

  24. As a graduate of the most liberal educational institution ever (UC Berkeley [Go Bears]) and as an African American who happens to like guns, I wish these self-appointed representatives would shut the F%#K up. You don’t know my personal struggles or triumphs so you cannot possibly speak for me. I have encountered racism as many others from other groups have encountered various “isms” before. Get over it and don’t let it become all that you are. Saying gun owners are racists is as bad a generalization as saying all ________ people do _________. I’m a firm believer in “you receive whatever energy you put out.” We need a “Shut the F$%K up” campaign where people like me stand up and fight clowns like this. I carry (legally) everyday not just for the protection of my family, but to exercise my right and as a big F U to know it all’s like this.

  25. Millions of White American gun owners are closet racists even though they kid themselves about whats coming.
    Keep whistling past the graveyard. Proud WHITE RACE SEPARATIST-The Insurgent

    • I support your free speech and hope that you do separate. Out of curiosity, where are you planning to go?

  26. Different Region The Playstation Store is operated differently on different regions.
    This fee is charged only once and are not charged extra fees for
    you. It almost felt like playing a Nintendo console (the fact an NES emulator can be found in the marketplace made it feel even more so).

    • Forget what white people say. Of course they say they are not racist. Racism is natures way of keeping evolution straight.When you ask a White person if they are Racist it translates to the media definition of racism.Desiring racial and cultural searation is not in its self hatred. How ever if pushed to the wall most Whites will revert to basic tribal racism.

      Anyone who puts reliance in man on the street poling is a fool .Like exit poling people will lie most of the time because their privacy is at stake.

      With a collapse in this country almost all White gun owners will revert to basic racism very soon.Like the scorpian says to the squirrel “ITS MY NATURE”. Tom Metzger

  27. If ‘racist’ and ‘stupid’ are the core cause for firearm ownership, how many do Mr. Mistrial have?

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