Quote of the Day: There But For the Grace of God Edition

“We are thankful for God’s grace and protection given this unsettling and unprecedented incident. We are committed to providing a safe environment for our church family to worship, and firearms are prohibited on our campuses.” – Pinelake Church Executive Pastor of Operations, Rod Cadenhead, Mississippi woman struck by bullet shell after man ignores ‘no gun’ sign in church [at rawstory.com]

comments

  1. avatar Cameron B says:

    o man i’ve been struck by shells before. almost uncomfortable.

    1. avatar Josh says:

      The ones that are still hot can be a bother if they find their way down your shirt.

      1. avatar Pulatso says:

        I had one bounce off the range wall and go in my glasses. Burnt my face slightly under my eye, but it healed fine.

        1. avatar peirsonb says:

          Only once (so far). Of course it managed to find the half inch of open skin between my hat and glasses. Burn, cut, and bruise all in one tidy little package.

        2. avatar Jack says:

          Exactly the same thing happened to me. Solution: At the range, wear a hat that has a bill, like a baseball cap.

      2. avatar BDub says:

        It once rained 30mm shell casings on me and squad, cause a couple of Apache gunners thought that would be fun to do. No injuries, but no fun either.

        1. avatar C says:

          Oh come on, that was riotously funny! …for them.

          My glock has a habit of ejecting straight backward so i get hit in the top of the head quite often by casings and i have yet to put up a no gun sign because of it.

  2. avatar ST says:

    I did the common sense thing and banned crazy women from my home.

    Unfortunately that didn’t stop my most recent ex from going girl stupid.Perhaps I need a Federal statute? Those seem to stop gun toting criminals, right?

    1. avatar Rich Grise says:

      Or quit taking crazy girls home, or stop making them crazy.

  3. avatar Anon says:

    What is a ‘Bullet Shell’? Does that have anything to do with Assault Clips?

    Also, I like the stock photo of the guy (representing all CCW holders in their minds) Mexican carrying.

    1. avatar Jonathan -- Houston says:

      I think it’s that shoulder thing that goes up.

    2. avatar Mistereveready says:

      I’ve seen one or two hollow points have the lead core separate from the brass shell, but that is probably not the case here.

    3. avatar SpeleoFool says:

      My guess: it’s a bullet that’s a sad shadow of its former self because of politicians / self-proclaimed activists calling it names out of ignorance and prejudice.

  4. avatar Anonymous says:

    “Bullet shell grazed a woman nearby – bullet lodged in concrete”

    How can a shell graze anything?

    Also… God gave us guns to protect ourselves. What’s wrong with guns?

    1. avatar Skyler says:

      God didn’t give us guns. They are the genius of man.

      God made us unequal, weak and strong. Man made tools to make us equal.

      1. avatar Troutbum5 says:

        Wasn’t it Sam Colt that made us equal? Or so the story goes…

      2. avatar Anonymous says:

        Yeah, but god gave the idea to man or at least he allowed man to conceive the idea. God knows everything right? So he knew we would have guns when he made us.

        He could have intervened at any time – so this means that God endorses the existence of and the Right to keep and bear arms.

        1. avatar Mistereveready says:

          theology is a lose/lose topic. in either case it makes whatever version of whatever god you worship seem rather apathetic and even down right sinister if that coment were factual.

          guns don’t even make people equal, but they do offer at least a little fighting chance when something decides to prey upon us.

  5. avatar ThomasR says:

    Yep, I’m going from thinking these people are in denial and delusional to just full bug house nuts; it explains why they want the government to do everything for them; they truly can’t operate in the real world as mature responsible adults.

  6. avatar JKP says:

    Two points:

    (1) If you think ‘it can’t happen to me,’ you’re a fool. It can happen to anyone. Train, practice, be safe. Encourage others to do likewise.

    (2) If there’s enough philosophical grayness in your religion such that the right to self defense is considered optional by a good many of its practitioners….it isn’t the right to self defense that you should reconsider.

  7. avatar Esemwy says:

    The individual had an “enhanced carry permit.” Does that perhaps mean police officer of something similar?

    1. avatar Henry Bowman says:

      Mississippi offers an “enhancement” to the normal concealed carry permit. It’s available to firearms instructors, security guards, police, etc. It requires additional training and allows for concealed carry in locations that are prohibited to “normal” carry permit holders.

      1. avatar Chad says:

        Henry: As a firearms instructor here in Mississippi I just wanted to let you know, that ANYONE who takes firearms training through a state approved instructor, can get an enhanced permit. You do not need to be a police officer or security guard.
        The state of MS does not require ANY training in order for you to get a concealed carry permit. The enhanced permit was created to encourage professional training and to further reciprocity with other states.

        1. avatar Henry Bowman says:

          Good to know. Thanks. Where are you located? I’m down on the Gulf Coast.

  8. avatar Brian says:

    I work with about 2,000 churches in Missouri and the vast majority of them are very welcoming to members carrying. Beyond that, many (I personally know of about 100) are organizing CCW holders, getting them extra training, developing active shooters plans and being proactive. I guess “We are committed to providing a safe environment for our church family to worship” can mean two different things.

    I’ve never heard of an “enhanced” permit. That’s interesting.

  9. avatar KCK says:

    Let’s not go all clip/magazine on their ass.
    “He was hit by an artillery shell”

    Artillery Shell is the projectile but is hollow so it is a shell.
    Shotgun shell is the cartridge
    Casing is a shell because it is hollow.
    Cartridge
    Bullet/projectile
    Shell/ empty brass
    Etc.
    It can be confusing. Don’t be to hard on these people.

  10. avatar Rokurota says:

    If you go by news stories, it seems like 75% of all guns made discharge randomly when jiggled or jarred. Joe Ed Ray needs to own up to fiddling with his pocket rocket. God knows when you’re lying!

  11. avatar Henry Bowman says:

    Exactly why you should not pocket carry without a pocket holster with nothing else in your pocket.

    1. avatar Duke of Sharon says:

      I wish the story had told just what made the gun fire. I would like to know that this guy was doing something dumb and therefore this won’t happen to me.

      1. avatar Henry Bowman says:

        It fired because his finger or an object in his pocket somehow engaged the trigger.

        1. avatar Duke of Sharon says:

          probably, but the story doesn’t say that.

  12. avatar Duke of Sharon says:

    I often pocket carry but I try to avoid sitting down. We’re taught since children to never point a gun in an unsafe direction. If I’ve got my (wife’s) LCP in my pocket, and I’m sitting down to lunch, it’s pointed right at the guts of the guy across from me, with nothing but holster leather and cheap suiting to stop a bullet.

    Any advice here?

    Practically speaking, I pocket carry from car to office, and then the gun goes in the office drawer. Even then it’s technically in an unsafe direction but there are several layers of plywood and drywall between it and the nearest potential human body.

    1. avatar Henry Bowman says:

      The rule regarding pointing your weapon in a safe direction is associated with handling the firearm. Modern firearms will not discharge without something pulling the trigger. If it’s in a holster on your hip or in your pocket, or in your office drawer, it is perfectly safe, even while sitting.

      Just don’t fiddle with it while it’s in your pocket while you’re across the table from your boss during a business lunch.

      1. avatar Duke of Sharon says:

        You are probably right but I still don’t feel better.

        I’m thinking of just carrying something else and getting a vertical shoulder rig.

    2. avatar SCS says:

      The same can be said about a horizontal shoulder holster. You are muzzling everyone behind you. Of course it is secured in the holster with the trigger and tigger guard covered. It is not going to randomly fire.

      1. avatar Anon says:

        Still breaking one of the oft-mentioned 4 Rules.

        1. avatar Henry Bowman says:

          No, it’s not. They are rules for gun HANDLING. Just as you are not breaking the rule by walking in front of a grounded rifle.

    3. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

      You should man up and invest in a quality suit. Won’t stop a bullet, but you’ll look good and garner more respect.

      1. avatar Leadbelly says:

        And you can be buried in it!

      2. avatar Duke of Sharon says:

        Here’s the problem: Guns and suits cost about the same. So when I look at a $500.00 suit, I think. That’s a new Glock; if you buy that, you are walking away from a new Glock. $1000 suit? New AR.

        Of course, I end up buying cheap suits and no gun . . . maybe there is a problem.

        1. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

          Cut down on your drinking and save the money up. You’ll soon have that new Glock, AR and 2 shiny new suits!

  13. avatar Bruce B. says:

    Bogus!

    Guns are prohibited in the building, so there could not POSSIBLY be a gun present. Right? Right?

    These people lack the basic analytical skills to walk around loose. They need full time keepers to protect hem from the slap in the head that is reality. If prohibiting guns didn’t stop this guy from carrying, how will it work any better for someone with more evil intent?

  14. avatar scooter says:

    “If you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.” Heard that somewhere…

  15. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

    On one hand I can understand the philosophy of leaving your weapons behind when you walk into a house of God. Jesus rejected the temptation to take up arms against the Romans – he would have been made king if he hadn’t. His was a message of peace. But Peter on the other hand carried a sword and they tend to be a little hard to conceal so I have no doubt Jesus knew he was walking with armed men. Yes he rebuked Peter for cutting the ear off the Roman soldier, but he had been preaching all night that it was time for him to be handed over to the Romans and Peter obviously hadn’t been paying attention. If Jesus had an issue with carrying arms he would have rebuked him long before. So I don’t see a Christian argument against carry. But then Jesus also drank to the point of being branded a drunkard by his enemies, yet some churches think they know better than Jesus on that one too.

    1. avatar Rokurota says:

      The Judges, Joshua, David and many other men and women of God were called to wield the sword. Christians have a charge to pursue justice on Earth (Micah 6:8). Sometimes that requires force, sometimes peaceful means. There are at least four or five of us (that I know of) who carry in my 100-odd member Lutheran congregation (with not a single ND ever). That does not mean we will gun down anyone who threatens us, but it means we are ready for whatever calling we get.

      Each congregation/denomination needs to wrestle with this according to their consciences. If a Baptist church thinks gambling, drinking and dancing are sinful, let them. If a church wants to ban guns, so be it.

      1. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

        To each his own conscience. I would consider firearms carry in Church to be a little more nuanced though. I can’t for the life of me figure out how a religious group can call themselves “Christian” and condemn something that Jesus was well known for doing himself. His first miracle was turning water into wine for a bunch of drunks who already guzzled the whole lot! Seems like a precedent to me.

    2. avatar Henry Bowman says:

      For the record, Peter cut off the ear of “the light bearer”, not a Roman soldier.

      “The light bearer” is a clear analogy/reference to satan (aka. Lucifer), as the scene is a re-creation of the temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Eve “attacked” Lucifer’s ear (she spoke) and Adam remained silent. Jesus, the new Adam, rebukes Peter for the ear attack and steps forward, fulfilling the proper role of protector… all of it taking place in the Garden of Gethsemane.

      1. For the record…you are totally wrong.

        The New Testament no where identifies the man whom Peter struck as being a “light bearer” but rather “one of the men who came to arrest Jesus” and “Malchus, servant of the High Priest.”

        Further, Lucifer does not mean “Light Bearer” but “morning star.”

        See:
        John 18:10–11; Matthew 26:51; Mark 14:47; and Luke 22:51

        I do not claim to be an advanced scholar in Biblical languages, but I have some familiarity with New Testament Greek and Old Testament Hebrew and Aramaic, having taken Greek for eight years of college, seminary and post-graduate work, and Hebrew for five.

        1. avatar Henry Bowman says:

          The concept that the Garden scene mirrors the temptation in Eden and that of Jesus as the “new Adam” are commonly held by many, if not all, scripture scholars, including St. Thomas Aquinas. If your contention is merely translational, fine. But if you disagree conceptually, then your opinion flies in the face of an obvious spiritual parallel between man’s first fall and Jesus’ redemption of that fall.

        2. Henry, I’m simply pointing your basic errors in reading the Biblical accounts and making assertions about the identify of the servant and the translation of the word Lucifer.

        3. avatar Henry Bowman says:

          Fair enough. I guess I was confused by the fact that you said I was “totally wrong” when it seems now you meant I was only wrong about a translational detail.

      2. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

        My take on that has always been that Peter was taking up arms against God’s will. It was God’s will that Jesus was to be handed over at that time, Jesus had made that abundantly clear and Peter was obviously not listening. Sure there are parallels between Adam and Jesus because it was through Adam’s sin that we inherited death and through faith in Jesus’ sacrifice we can be granted life, but I’ll abstain from reading any more into the scriptures than that.

    3. avatar Rich Grise says:

      My favorite Jesus quote is John 8:32:
      “Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

      Freedom is my Worship Word!
      — Star Trek: Omega Glory 24:00

  16. There is no right to carry in a church, even if the church allows it. GCO brought suit in federal court and was denied certiorari at the us supreme court.

    1. avatar Henry Bowman says:

      “There is no right to carry in a church, even if the church allows it.”

      Do you mean according to law or to nature?

      1. The supreme court is god

        1. avatar Matt in FL says:

          You’re posting without your morning coffee again, because you’re only making sense to yourself. Expand on your comment, if there’s something there, please.

        2. avatar Henry Bowman says:

          Matt, I think he’s saying that those who see “the law” as sacred, view the u.s. supreme court as god. Hence the lowercase “g.” To them, Natural Law doesn’t matter, only what’s handed down from the high court.

        3. avatar Rich Grise says:

          No, you’ve got it backwards.

  17. avatar CGinTX says:

    I’m not sure I understand all the snarkiness toward this. What I see is a news story that is NOT all “OMG, guns are running around and killing God’s children!” – instead, it seems to be a reasonably balanced new story. Hell, they even say “if you carry, do it responsibly”.

    This really should be a Negligent Discharge of the Day story. Here’s someone, a Person of the Gun, even, who is: (a) carrying in a place that says “We Don’t Want You”; (b) he’s either pocket carrying without a holster, or futzing with his gun while surrounded with people; (c) he shot off a round in church and presumably the cartridge hit someone. One has to wonder, how DOES a cartridge escape from inside one’s pocket? Did it erupt through the material, or did he actually have the gun out of concealment and held in his hands?

    This is a guy who is NOT doing any favors for the images of guns “among us” and really that should be the focus here, rather than a bunch of snarkiness over semantics of “shells”.

    1. avatar Vendetta says:

      Read the comments. They read like antigun agitprop MDA (TTAG Shannon Watts reference of the day) nonsense.

    2. avatar KCK says:

      Refer to my earlier post. we do word substitution based on our own word experience.
      Pastor or reporter knows that an artillery shell is the projectile, we know the projectile as a bullet, (not mentioned) they say she was hit by a “shell”.
      You hear the word shell an substitute the word cartridge, but we know that a cartridge is the assembled casing, primer, powder and bullet. After firing the cartridge only the SHELL casing is left.
      To them the “shell’ blew out the barrel, and his pant leg, hit the floor and a shell/projectile/bullet fragment struck the woman. To you the empty cartridge flew out of the ejection port through his pants pocket and the shell struck the woman.
      As was said in Cool Hand Luke…..
      Do we see why eyes roll when we do the clip/magazine thing.

  18. avatar Charles5 says:

    A lot of people are mistaken that God does not permit armed self-defense. Most people in Biblical times carried swords or knives for protection, and the Disciples would have been no exception. In fact, Peter drew a sword and cut off the ear of one of the temple servants when they came to arrest Jesus. There are also all the times that God has people of wickedness killed for their sins and crimes.

    I live in Virginia and carrying a firearm in Religious Buildings is allowed under the law as long as you have a good reason, whatever that means. The attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli, yes the same one that lost the Governor’s race, released an opinion some years ago that the right to self-defense was a “good reason.” Now, with the new Attorney General, I don’t know how that is going to change.

    I always carry concealed in Church, usually in an ankle holster or in the waist band if I am wearing a suit jacket. A couple of my friends there know I carry and have asked why I feel I need a gun in church. Well, for one thing, our Pastor carries a gun and has armed security because he gets death treats all the time for preaching the Word of God, which tends to offend certain people. Also, many people end up changing their lives as a result of coming to Church and sometimes that doesn’t sit well with family members or significant others. There are stories of people walking into church and shooting people for various reasons. Church is no exception for me. I carry everywhere I can legally.

    1. Well said…across the river in Illinois a pastor was killed when a man walked into the church, during the worship service, and blew him away while he was in the pulpit.

  19. avatar Anon says:

    Plenty of antis calling us stupid and paranoid in the comments at RawStory.com.

    1. avatar Jus Bill says:

      And that tidbit is new or unique in what way exactly?

  20. avatar Tim says:

    So, this guys sits down, the gun in his pocket goes off, the bullet lodges in the floor but the shell manages to espcape the pocket, hit a lady, break into pieces and one of those pieces hits another lady?

    Wow, Oswald’s “magic bullet” has finally met its match!

    1. avatar Duke of Sharon says:

      Good point. I don’t see how the gun could possibly have been in his pocket.

    2. avatar KCK says:

      Refer to my earlier post. we do word substitution based on our own word experience.
      Pastor or reporter knows that an artillery shell is the projectile, we know the projectile as a bullet, (not mentioned) they say she was hit by a “shell”.
      You hear the word shell an substitute the word cartridge, but we know that a cartridge is the assembled casing, primer, powder and bullet. After firing the cartridge only the SHELL casing is left.
      To them the the shell (projectile) blew out the barrel, and his pant leg, hit the floor and a fragment truck the woman. To you the empty cartridge (Shell) flew out of the ejection port through his pants pocket and the shell struck the woman.
      As was said in Cool Hand Luke…..

    3. avatar Hannibal says:

      This was my exact thought. Something is missing here. Maybe in the reporting, or maybe in the guy’s story. While the former is certainly possible, the latter might go far in explaining the discharge. Handling the gun because it’s in an uncomfortable spot, BANG… Oh, I don’t know how it went off!

  21. avatar Jus Bill says:

    So would the woman now be considered “smited?”

    1. avatar Marcus says:

      I prefer “smote.”

  22. avatar Chad says:

    What’s sad is that this Pastor is in Mississippi, doesn’t get the whole good guy with a gun is a good thing. As long as the “shell” wasn’t moving at 1,000 feet per second, when it hit someone, that’s also a good thing.

    As a proud resident of Mississippi, if my pastor banned guns from my church, I would find a new place to worship. As it stands, my flock, is the safest because I am there. Enhanced permit and all. (Enhanced permits in MS, allows the carry of firearms in traditionally off limit places, like churches).

  23. avatar Adam says:

    I go to one of the biggest churches in North Idaho. I asked one of our executive pastors what our churches gun policy was. He said they have no problem with it and if they did enact a no guns policy they would probably lose half the membership. I later found out from his wife that they both have ccw’s.

    I love my church even more now!

  24. avatar Jonathan -- Houston says:

    So what’s the big intended take-away here? That guns are so inherently dangerous that even if the vast majority us can carry without incident, the potential injury from even a very rare incident outweighs all other considerations? If we’re weighing costs and benefits, then let’s be sure to fit all the facts on the scale. Some of those facts are that places of worship have been scenes of armed attacks, some of those attacks have been repelled by armed defenders, while others have been free to slaughter unarmed attendees.

    The decision to carry a firearm and the resolve to use it when justified are deeply personal and private matters. They’re on par with, for being part of, one’s stance on faith itself. I would not support a law banning firearms from places of worship, but neither would I deny the owners of such a place their right to restrict firearms on their own private property. That they elect to sacrifice consenting churchgoers on the alter of victimhood is their own business.

    For my part, however, just as I wouldn’t belong to a club that would have me as a member, I wouldn’t attend a church that would treat me as a martyr.

  25. If they build the “no guns” signs big and thick enough they might actually help…other than that they are useless

  26. avatar Paul G. says:

    “Bullet shells” can hurt a lot. I was a left-handed shooter to begin with, in childhood, but those hot 22lr spent casings landing in the crook of my elbow convinced me to try shooting right-handed instead. Of course, I was about 5 years old, and they didn’t hurt that much, but enough to not like it.

  27. avatar Marcus says:

    “…Ray was an ‘upstanding guy’ and that’s why he wasn’t releasing his mug shot.”
    Are you freakin’ kidding me? The chief thinks he gets to decide what is released and what is not because of his own personal feelings about the guy? I don’t care if the mugshot is released or not, frankly, but someone should go Freedom of Information Act on the chief just to let him know how it works. “I’m not releasing information about this incident because the suspect is my brother-in-law and one hell of a poker player.” I mean, sheesh.

  28. avatar niceguns says:

    We want to provide a safe environment for people, no guns allowed.

    Isn’t that an oxymoron?
    Some people can rezly oitsmart themselves.

  29. avatar Jeh says:

    So let me see if I understand this…a women got struck by a man after he ignored a no guns sign, but your glad the sign is there to keep you safe because it will keep people from bringing guns…? Clearly the sign didn’t do shit. Because like every other criminal, it was COMPLETELY ignored, What the hell is a bullet shell?

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      Well if your flock includes people who can’t manage to stop from firing off rounds accidentally, it’s probably safer by the numbers to hope no one decides to shoot up the church.

  30. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    For the love of all that is good people, always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS carry your handgun in a holster that is designed for that handgun and covers the trigger guard. Whether you carry in your pocket, inside waistband (any position), outside waistband, (any position), on your ankle, on a shoulder rig, or whatever, get a holster.

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      A holster, in the pocket? That doesn’t sound like such a good idea, to me. Safely on, in pocket. Only after it clears your pocket should you flip off the safety. It’s obvious why not. It’s still faster than in a holster, in a pocket.

      It’d be hard to convince me otherwise.

  31. avatar William Burke says:

    “Executive Pastor of Operations”? WHAT’S THAT? Nothing says “corporate religion” more than a title like that.

  32. avatar WI Patriot says:

    Let’s get the story right if you’re going to report on it, the man did NOT “ignore” the no weapons sign, he was the holder of an “Enhanced Carry Permit” which means;

    “The enhanced permit is obtained by attending a special Mississippi Department of Public Safety-approved training course and paying a $132 fee. The special permit allows holders to carry in places where firearms are otherwise prohibited – including places of worship.”

Write a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

button to share on facebook
button to tweet
button to share via email