“High Capacity Magazines”: Our Enemies Have ‘Em But You Can’t!

Captured items from SEAL raid in Somalia

*California, Colorado, the District of Columbia, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey or New York restrict or prohibit ownership of “high capacity” ammunition magazines. If you’re a terrorist living in Somalia, no problem. You can own as many ammunition magazines of whatever type you like. As they say, whatever you can get. Like a MagPul EMAG (fits an HK416) and a standard issues magazine for an MP7. And where did the terrorist group Shabab get these examples? From . . .

a more than reasonably successful pre-dawn SEAL raid. The good guys got bad guy and left the mags, GPS device, cartridges and other stuff behind.

Now you could say that SpecOps forces need these “high capacity” mags a lot more than you do. And you’d be right. But you could also say that our enemies—terrorists and criminals—have these relatively low-tech ammunition storage devices for their guns so why shouldn’t we, the people, have them too?

The only sensible answer: because some people don’t want Americans to defend themselves. They believe the “professionals” should do it. Period. De-magging those who aren’t professionals reduces the population of “high capacity” (i.e., standard capacity) magazines available to the bad guys.

Only that’s not how it works in the real world is it?

In the real world, criminals and madmen are clever, determined and focused people. One way or another, they get access to all the equipment they want or need to achieve their goals. In the real world, the armed professionals only arrive after the party starts, after the blood is shed. In the real world, we the people have to look out for ourselves.

Speaking of which . . .

Did you hear there were SIX undercover cops amongst the bikers that attacked and nearly killed an SUV driver in New York? I’m not saying the driver should have had an AR with a “high capacity” magazine on board when the S hit the F. But I am saying that the Constitution protects his right to keep and bear arms and the bits that make them work. In theory.

comments

  1. avatar Chuck Pelto says:

    TO: Robert Farago
    RE: Colorado

    Here in Colorado you can own high capacity magazines. But you have to have possessed them BEFORE 1 July 2013.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [Be Prepared…..]

    1. avatar Robert Farago says:

      Text amended.

    2. avatar BillF says:

      Here in NY 10 round mags were the rule, but we could own pre-Clinton ban standard mags. Until the latest round of regs. Now it’s 10 round capacity loaded with only 7 rounds. They eat the apple one bite at a time.

      1. avatar Hal J. says:

        Yup. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see the NY magazine restriction go down to five rounds in the near future.

        1. avatar Chuck Pelto says:

          That leaves New Yorkers with single shot pistols and goose guns.

      2. avatar BDub says:

        I’m still curious – if I load 8 rounds into a mag its illegal, but if I chamber a round, it suddenly isn’t? Is that right?

        1. avatar BillF says:

          Yeah. Technically you need to put 7 or less in the mag, replace the mag and chamber one, remove the mag and top it off to 7, replace the mag. If you simply load eight in the mag and chamber one of the eight leaving seven in the mag you were, for a moment, in violation. Even though the results are the same.

        2. avatar Johnetta says:

          Apioicpatern for this information is over 9000-thank you!

        3. avatar http://www./ says:

          It’s a real pleasure to find someone who can think like that

    3. avatar Hal J. says:

      If someone had told me 10 years ago that such a ban (on the transfer of magazines of more than 15 rounds) would be passed in Colorado, I would have laughed in their face. Times change.

      I did stock up on normal capacity magazines shortly before the July 1st deadline, purchasing dozens of mags including some for guns I don’t even own yet. As a result of this law, I’m far better armed than I would have been had it not passed.

      Way to go, gun grabbers!

      1. avatar SteveInCO says:

        Turns out I already had copious amounts of >15 capacity mags for most of the firearms I owned, but I had to scramble in a couple of cases, for newly purchased guns (and up yours, ES & FOAD, 0bama, Biden, Feinstein, Hickeypooper, Morse, et. al.) and in those cases I do not have as much as I would like (though I don’t feel “short” on them either–I’m in that broad fuzzy range between feeling I have a lifetime supply and feeling I have a decade supply). I regret that Magpul doesn’t make anything for those firearms or I’d have some Boulder Airlift logos in my possession.

        Didn’t think about spare springs.

      2. avatar Xpunge says:

        Thank you Hal, for using “normal” in place of the media manufactured “high” in reference to magazine capacity.

        I’m so very tired of the media speak, double speak, manufactured re-definitions.

    4. avatar Venator Magnus says:

      My only question is, how is that enforceable? I mean, do I have to carry receipts with me at all times to prove that I purchased said magazine before July 1, 2013? And I’m assuming that if I were to move to Colorado (which is a possibility once I finish grad school in December), what about all of my 30-rounders that I’ve purchased here in Idaho? I assume that, given that I wasn’t a Colorado resident at the time of the ban, I’d have to sell them before I move.

      And exactly how does banning something from law-abiding citizens prevent criminals from committing heinous crimes with said banned item?

      1. avatar Howdy says:

        The law is unenforceable. The sheriffs in Colorado have stated so.

        Unless there’s a new gun or unique mag that didn’t exist until after the ban went into effect. Or if the date of manufacture is stamped on the mag.

        Further, the burden of proof is on the State.

        It’s unclear how a mag ban from someone moving from another state is impacted. Hopefully, we can get these laws overturned now that we put the smackdown on 2 senators.

        1. avatar DonS says:

          “Further, the burden of proof is on the State.”

          Exactly. And that’s why it’s unenforceable. All you have to do is “assert” that you owned/possessed the >15 round mag prior to 01 July 2013, and it’s up to the state to prove otherwise:

          (2) (a) A PERSON MAY POSSESS A LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE IF HE OR SHE:
          (I) OWNS THE LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE ON THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS SECTION; AND
          (II) MAINTAINS CONTINUOUS POSSESSION OF THE LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE.
          (b) IF A PERSON WHO IS ALLEGED TO HAVE VIOLATED SUBSECTION (1) OF THIS SECTION ASSERTS THAT HE OR SHE IS PERMITTED TO LEGALLY POSSESS A LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE PURSUANT TO PARAGRAPH (a) OF THIS SUBSECTION (2), THE PROSECUTION HAS THE BURDEN OF PROOF TO REFUTE THE ASSERTION.

          “Or if the date of manufacture is stamped on the mag.”

          Fortunately, nothing in the new CO law prohibits defacing magazines. All of my mags have survived boating accidents, but they have somehow run into a grinding wheel.

  2. avatar BillF says:

    “Did you hear there were SIX undercover cops amongst the bikers that attacked and nearly killed an SUV driver in New York?”

    Nope I hadn’t. Six undercovers and a bunch of corrections officers. Where’s all the media whooping over that detail?

    1. avatar Dave says:

      The media to my knowledge has been all over it. What they don’t make clear is where the officers where during each aspect of the accident/chase/confrontation/assault. From what I could tell in the edited video was that the group of bikers was rather large. If some of the officers were on the tail end of the group did they actually see or observe anything? I’m not saying an officer shouldnt have intervened if they witnessed something, but if they didn’t witness anything how can they be held at fault? More details are needed…

      1. avatar BillF says:

        I’ve heard about the one cop but not the 5 others or c.o.’s until Robert’s linked article. I haven’t followed it closely. Haven’t heard much about the guy who is likely paralyzed either. I know FOX interviewed his GF though. I’m sure Bloomberg and Kelly are getting to the bottom of it and will be forthcoming with all the details.
        LEO involvement or not, just an example of the world we live in and why we should be able to protect ourselves and not rely on the cops.

        1. avatar bontai Joe says:

          His evilness, the mayor will most likely call for a ban on assault type SUV’s. I can hear it now…. “No one in the city needs a V-8 powered, off road capable, high ground clearance, assault SUV. These vehicles were designed for the military, and should not be allowed in civilian hands. These are vehicles of death and the only people that should have these are my “highly trained” members of the NYPD.”

    2. avatar Tommy Knocker says:

      Small fact that NYPD Internal Affairs is investigating is that the first of the cops didnt even report their presence until Wednesday. I wont be surprised to hear they are various gang members who made it on to the force.

    3. avatar Hasdrubal says:

      It’s NYPD. I’m sure there are many good men and women there, but the chain of command seems to think they are an army unto themselves (wonder who gave them that idea), and when an organization like that runs undercover ops, things can and do get out of hand. I mean, they send officers overseas for counter-terrorism assignments of some kind, and no matter how big they are, they are a city police department.

      I am also upset that I have to read British news to get an honest look at what is happening here in the US, or anywhere else in the world. NSA overreach? Problems with the NYPD? Muslim terrorists slaughter children? Same old lack of story.

  3. avatar Ardent says:

    I have to assume that the mag cap limits are the bastard product of sheer ignorance of function and of ease of manufacture on the one hand and some semblance of ‘doing something’ while not ‘infringing’ on hunters and traditionalists on the other.

    Even during the ’94 AWB standard cap mags were available through many channels for every conceivable weapon though they were scarcer and more expensive. . . which is why even small fabricating shops began taking them apart and realizing that manufacturing them was outrageously profitable given how cheap they are to make and what they were selling for at the time.

    It was like being able to make cocaine out of sand, and having a prescription for it so if you were ever caught with it you could claim it was legal (grandfathered). Since the full weight of the government still can’t (never could and never will) prevent the influx of real coke over the borders the very concept that they could some how regulate or eradicate something as easily whipped up as magazine is completely absurd.

    Such laws are a reflection of what happens when those who legislate know not what it is they legislate. A metal tab, a bent section of sheet metal, a stamped piece a spring and a spot weld is not exactly high tech manufacturing, its so simple basically anyone could do it in a garage on the weekends, and with injection molded plastics the number small enterprises with the potential to be rogue mag makers increases considerably.

    Whatever makes US lawmakers think that we the people, with the vast resources of material, manufacturing and technical ability couldn’t keep rifle magazines in supply when the Afghan’s somehow manage to do it without even the benefit of duct tape is beyond me.

    As for the SUV Vs motorcycle; I’m still going with the high capacity assault SUV as the weapon of choice. For me there is little traction in that encounter for an armed citizen meme. He was heavily armed for the encounter and failed to properly employ his weapon. He didn’t need more or different weapons, he needed a better plan and more resolve.

  4. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

    Magazines are worthless without a firearm that they fit into. I am fortunate enough to live in a state that doesn’t restrict magazine capacity unless hunting. Another note, I understand the cops undercover not wanting to blow the cover, but they really just didn’t do anything?

    1. avatar Pascal says:

      The news reports are, they really did nothing. There is an IA investigation going on.

      What is interesting is the guy on he motorcycle who got tagged by the SUV is going to speaking.

      There is a whole other part of the story of what happened before the video that has yet to come out. Nobody is going to innocent on this one. It is like a brawl at a ball game.

    2. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

      I see the police were off duty. I wasn’t there but I bet that SUV driver wishes he could have drove over more than just one guy. In that above news link that Edwin that got run over only knew one friend in that group? Ever heard of knowing the guys you ride with? Besides why was his bike and person directly in front of that SUV if he was trying to redirect the other bikers (as per his wife)?

  5. avatar Jeh says:

    Wait did the bad guys actually take the above image or is that a remake? If so then I see they have decent camera technology. Surprised the SEAL’s couldn’t find a place for some rounds and two mags, like an extra pocket, god knows their vests have plenty.

    1. avatar Dave says:

      You have obviously never met Mr. Murphy.

    2. avatar Mark N. says:

      Me suspicions that the rounds were loaded into the mags and the mags were dropped, then unloaded for the photo op.

  6. avatar Jerry R says:

    After seeing the biker vid (I have been riding since 1965 and have a HD in my garage), I sure am happy to have a KelTec PMR 30 in the safe with 3 30 round mags. It will be with me on my yearly trip down south. Of course I will have my CCW 9mm at my side. I can’t wait for Bloomberg to tell us why we don’t need these.

  7. avatar jwm says:

    I can have a 30 round mag if I lived in Somalia? Mighty tempting.

    1. avatar S.CROCK says:

      you can have 30rd mags if you move to Nevada. is that a little more tempting?

      1. avatar jwm says:

        Somalia. Nevada. Both deserts. But I can become a warlord in Somalia. Has a certain appeal to it..

        1. avatar Oakie Doc says:

          Hilarious!

        2. avatar bontai Joe says:

          No bacon in Somalia…. just saying.

        3. avatar jwm says:

          Vegetarian. No bacon in my house regardless of the zip code.

  8. avatar LongPurple says:

    Were there really 6 “undercover cops” in that mob, or were they “off-duty cops” ?

    1. avatar Anon in CT says:

      Pretty sure it was the latter.

      1. avatar LongPurple says:

        That seems more likely. The journalists probably figure any cop that is not in uniform must be “under cover”, in this case as a spy on motorcycle gang activities.

      2. avatar Ing says:

        The article switched terms back and forth, so it was hard to tell — but I think there were both. Off-duty cops most likely in the crowd at the end, and undercover ones with the bikers.

  9. avatar Out_Fang_Thief says:

    Not just our enemies, but our friends in the too late by minutes LEO’s can have them, which is usually long after the first critical seconds have come and gone. That’s so perverse it’s almost funny. The truth of it is, the law abiding are always easier to find when it comes to disarming the American citizens right to keep and bear quick and effective self defense tools to save their own lives. In reality, more often than not, LEO’s are always the second responders. It’s only the first responder, the armed citizen, that can actually enforce the law when the crucial seconds count.

  10. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

    In regards to cops present during the biker attack on the NY man, the SCOTUS has ruled that police have no duty to provide protection to any individual citizen, only a duty to generally uphold the law.

    The law of the land says that police are not liable or responsible to protect you or your family… You’re on your own, act accordingly.

    1. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

      The last I knew it was illegal to drag a person from an SUV and stab them? Also illegal is using and SUV to run someone over. So yeah doing nothing was not upholding the law.

      1. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

        http://nypost.com/2013/01/27/city-says-cops-had-no-duty-to-protect-subway-hero-who-subdued-killer/

        Like it or not, this is the way it is…. And, there are Supreme Court cases to back it up.

  11. avatar Dirk Diggler says:

    When all of this “ban” crap spread, I loaded up on mags and more importantly, springs. Just sayin

    1. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

      I bought extra mags as soon as election results were in. Just saying…

  12. avatar Anonymous says:

    Standard. Standard Capacity Magazine.

    1. avatar SteveInCO says:

      Both are true. High IS standard, normal, whatever, and it is *appropriate* as well.

      1. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

        High is relative to the standard…

        A 26 gallon tank on a truck is standard or normal, but on a car it would be consider a high capacity.

        Calling a 26 gallon gas tank on a full size truck a ” high capacity tank” would be inappropriate, much like calling a 30 round mag on and AR “high”.

        If that’s the factory standard, it isn’t high.

        1. avatar SteveInCO says:

          I am actually laughing right now, because this argument is basically “how high is high?” Anyhow, you’ve made a good point.

        2. avatar DonS says:

          Yeah, a 26 gallon tank on a truck certainly isn’t “high”.

          On a low-capacity truck, it might be “standard”.

          On my standard-capacity truck (2001 Cummins RAM with its factory 35 gallon tank), 26 gallons would be “low capacity”. On my wife’s 2005 sick-point-oh Powerjoke Excursion (with its factory 44 gallon tank), 26 gallons is reserve status.

  13. avatar Accur81 says:

    Perhaps the LEOs in the gang were undercover or off duty. At the end of the day, I don’t believe it matters. When they failed to protect the citizen they were in dereliction of duty. Disgusting. I heard that one of the LEOs is one desk duty following the mandatory turn in of his badge and gun. Apparently that cop reported the incident several days later. He didn’t intervene for fear of blowing his cover. When someone gets a gang beating, that’s time to blow cover.

    There are many pro gun tales within the SUV vs MC with LEOs story. For me the takeaway is that LEOs did not protect the citizen in the “Gun Free” paradise of NY. Gun control is about people control – taking power from the taxpayers and giving it to the government and politically connected. I debriefed my wife about the incident. Well be buying another Taser battery, and looking into a Smith Bodyguard .380 or Ruger LCP for her. We live in a world where people are not bound by the law, and it takes more than law to stop them.

    1. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

      Gun grabbers are going to state this incident as a win for them, imagine if everyone had a firearm with high cap bullet magazines, there would be hundreds dead in the streets just like the old west.

      /sarc.

  14. avatar tdiinva says:

    There was a time when cops were never off duty. A cop was cop 24/7. It terms of powers that is still true. There was one undercover guy and I can see why he couldn’t get involved but the others? I’d fire them. They didn’t even call 911.

  15. avatar Ralph says:

    The NYPD will have its “investigation” and the officers will be “punished” with a week of desk duty at full pay.

    Hey, I have a great idea. Somebody should open a store near One Police Plaza to sell broad brushes and whitewash. They’ll make a fortune.

    1. avatar BillF says:

      I’m sure the Littlest Mayor and Ray Kelly are ironing out the details of the investigation at this moment.

  16. avatar Cubby123 says:

    Colorado is working on repealing those illegal laws,Maryland has tons of lawsuits on the newly restrictive laws.Illinois just got their butts clipped and had to repeal all their mag laws..The other states have lawsuits and battles going on to repeal magazine limitations.So get all you can get and go where you can get them as Americans need to be be as well armed as anybody in the world,that includes our government ,as written in the Constitution.

  17. avatar BDub says:

    Were they “undercover” or just off-duty? There is a difference. My understanding is one was an undercover cop, who happened to be part of the group, and the others were just off-duty cops, that were either part of the group or were along for that particular ride.

    Serve and protect, indeed.

  18. avatar C says:

    Good to hear that it went much better than the last Somali snatch and grab.

  19. avatar Trey says:

    And this is why I’m glad to be a Tennessean! All my life and always will be! Tennessee ranks 3rd out of all 50 States as far as freedom. Only behind North & South Dakota.

    1. avatar Blue says:

      Unfortunately, in TN, the no gun signs on businesses etc. carry the force of law.

  20. avatar Blue says:

    The fact that rogue States like Somalia have them and other nations that pose risk i.e. Russia and China is exactly one of the reasons behind the 2nd Amendment.

  21. avatar TangledThorns says:

    Remember kiddies, elections matter. So make sure you vote Republican every, damn, time!!

  22. avatar Pat says:

    Never vote libtard (democrat) again. You morons who voted libtard (democrat) BETTER have learned your lesson.

  23. avatar JT says:

    RF,

    Recommendation for the future. Try not to link to articles that are behind a pay-wall.

    Thanks.

  24. avatar Scott P says:

    Maryland only bans normal capacity commerce within the state.

    Possession of normal capacity mags are still legal. One can go to a plethora of border states and buy them to bring them back. You can even order them online and have them shipped to an out-of-state address yet many companies still refuse to do so even when it’s legal.

  25. avatar AJ says:

    It just dawned on me that if the military and police are these super highly trained people, logic would seem to dictate they need LESS ammo capacity, while you me and the rest of the unwashed masses would need regular capacity, and even high capacity mags, simply because we are NOT professionals, and so poorly trained.

  26. avatar Gordon Wagner says:

    How do we repeal these dumb laws? I’d much sooner see TERM LIMITS for politicians enforced than magazine capacity laws.

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