Question of the Day: Whatcha Gonna Do If They Come for You?

“There were probably  worse consequences in some of the other August reports,” Tim Lynch avers at policemisconduct.net, “but the DeKalb case didn’t result from a mere momentary lapse in judgment. It resulted from an environment where an officer can rise to a high rank within a police force and think it acceptable and within his authority to harass and threaten citizens in the middle of the night in their own home, without any resistance.  This case shows officers that are either unfamiliar with, or totally indifferent about, what the Constitution has to say about searches.” I wonder what members of TTAG’s Armed Intelligentsia would do in this situation. If the cops had any indication that they faced armed resistance . . . Your thoughts?

comments

  1. avatar Jay1987 says:

    That’s it I’m buyin claymores and plantin them around my house… maybe even mount an m2 on the porch.

    1. avatar John F says:

      At what point do People start to get agressive AFTER such abuse.
      The novel ;
      Unintended Consequences: John Ross
      will come to be truth ….

      1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        I am thoroughly convinced it will happen. It is simply a matter of time … and not much time at that.

  2. avatar Ralph says:

    Cops come to my home respectfully, I’ll make them coffee and sandwiches. But anybody who comes heavy without an invitation or a warrant is going to leave a few ounces heavier than when they arrived. That’s all there is to it.

    1. avatar Conway Redding says:

      Are you serious? If the police come in “heavy,” as you say, they are likely to be wearing full body armor and carrying fully automatic weapons. What’s your best guess as to how any shoot-out between you and them is likely to turn out?

      1. avatar Rambeast says:

        Body armor does not cover everything.

        1. avatar Chuck Pelto says:

          Nor does it protect against high-powered rifle fire.

          I like the claymore idea. About knee level….

        2. avatar Denny says:

          Agreed it does no cover everything !!

          That ugly mug and bag o nuts, hip sockets and all below is free game…Wrong address is B & E armed and dangerous for me. As in one other comment High cap Center fire long gun does well and I got my pick. Even if I go deaf using the M44 Hungarian build w/extended bayo

      2. avatar Ralph says:

        @Conway, if anyone comes here with bad intentions and no warrant, some of them are leaving here headless. That’s how it’s turning out. End of story.

        1. avatar 2Wheels says:

          Sheer fantasy.

          The real story ends with your funeral…

        2. avatar MothaLova says:

          Yes, and the cops will get off scot-free, without even a slap on the wrist. In fact, they might even get medals for so bravely putting their lives on the line to take down a crazed nut who had an “arsenal” of guns and ammo.

        3. avatar Ralph says:

          Hey, 2Wheels, what the hell do you think I have guns for if not to protect myself?

        4. avatar 2Wheels says:

          Guns won’t protect you from overwhelming force, which is exactly what will come down on your head if you decide to get into a shootout with cops.

          It’s one thing if you don’t realize who is coming through your door at 2am in the morning… But if you know it’s the cops, shooting at them will not make them go away.

        5. avatar Anonymous says:

          Ralph never said he’d come out alive. He said some of them would be headless. Let that be a deterrent to any corrupt cops reading Ralph’s post or scoping out his place. He will not put up with your abuse or your crap. If you raid Ralph’s place and survive you will get off Scot-free, however, some of you may be headless… do you want to be headless? That’s right.

      3. avatar Henry Bowman says:

        “If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”

        1. avatar Chuck Pelto says:

          TO: Harry Bowman, et al….especially Conway Redding
          RE: I’m Reminded…..

          War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. — John Stuart Mill

          Regards,

          Chuck(le)
          [These are the times that try men’s souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. — Thomas Paine]

        2. avatar Ross says:

          Amen.

      4. avatar Christian says:

        @Conway
        A greased floor in the entry way
        diesel fuel + supersoaker + zippo lighter
        a great big puddle of gasoline + match
        Clorox + Windex

        I don’t need to use a gun (though I probably would) and I don’t need to “outshoot” the police. They may enjoy being tacticool, but I have yet to see them sporting gas masks and firesuits.

        1. avatar 2Wheels says:

          Soooo you’re gonna burn down your house?

          What a plan…

        2. avatar Chuck Pelto says:

          TO: 2Wheels
          RE: Looks To Me Like A…..

          ….If I’m Going Down, I’m Taking You Bastards With Me scenario.

          Not a bad idea. Sort of like the scene from Terminator 2, where the mortally wounded Teledyne researcher is holding the detonator in his hand and the SWATs come across him. They backed out quickly.

          He should have just punched it off with a grin on his face….

          Regards,

          Chuck(le)
          P.S. It’s a last-course-of-action.

          Before then, I’d recommend 2-liter plastic bottles filled half-and-half with chlorine bleach and ammonia. Separated by a 1″ layer of wax. When the bottles are thrown—preferably to a level of entry lower than where you are at—the wax layer breaks, the chemicals combine, the deadly chlorine gas generated ruptures the plastic bottle, exposing the invaders to an eye-opening, lung-searing experience.

        3. avatar JusBill says:

          Second story window; boiling paraffin on the dood with the ram. Repeat as necessary while calling media.

        4. avatar Anonymous says:

          2Wheel’s solution is to give up immediately, take their stun gunning and raping in the back room (for some victimless crime he did no doubt). Then get incarcerated and thrown in prison where he can be raped some more from bubba his roomie.

      5. avatar Chuck Pelto says:

        TO: Conway Redding
        RE: Heh

        If the police are coming in ‘heavy’, e.g., battering down your door with sub-machine guns locked and cocked….

        ….and you’ve done nothing illegal in the first place….

        ….it’s an odds on bet their purpose there is to kill you, whether you like it or not.

        The same is true for gang-bangers coming in shouting that they are “Police!”

        You really can’t trust either group to be what they claim to be. Especially if you’re in a largish residence and can’t see what’s going on at the door from your bedroom at 2 am.

        Cops used to be polite and respectful of home owners and such. Now they use stormtrooper tactics when investigating the theft of a video game or cell phone.

        It’s only going to be when the ill-mannered police start dying at the hands of honest citizens defending themselves against God-only-knows-what sort of invasion is occurring that they’ll start behaving more civilized.

        Yeah. Some of US are going to die. So what. We all die sooner or later. It’s HOW we die that counts the most. In my case, I wouldn’t mind going out defending the Rights guarrantted US under the Bill of Rights. Indeed….it would be full payment/fulfillment of the oath I took 40+ years ago.

        Regards,

        Chuck(le)
        P.S. If you doubt that the cops are going crazy, check out all the other YouTube items being offered besides the one in this topic.

      6. avatar Chuck Pelto says:

        P.P.S. It might be a good idea to put some IP-Address cameras with speaking capabilities at the most likely avenue of approach the police might use to access the interior of your house. Especially if it’s kind of ‘big’, e.g., 6500 sq ft, 4-level, and you aren’t near the point of access.

        That way you can use your iPad to see what’s going on and possibly—depending on the equipment and apps—talk them ‘down’ and even show you any sort of search warrant.

      7. avatar Pat says:

        M1A will take care of body armor. Or you can just wait and take it to them when they are off duty. Asymetrical warfare is a bitch.

    2. avatar Jacen says:

      Indiana state law actually allows me to defend my property with lethal on unwarranted entry and I can defend myself in court over that. Now if the police are doing their job and are using warrants but banging on my door at 1 am. I am not opening it for any reason. I have a nice clear window where they can shove their warrant in my face. I’ll dial the phone and keep on calling everyone until the block is filled with enough cameras and on lookers to make this into a national incident.

    3. avatar Anonymous says:

      What about me? Can I show up for some free coffee and sandwiches???

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        Bring your own sugar.

    4. avatar William Burke says:

      But what’s in that coffee?

  3. avatar Jay1987 says:

    Most cops around my house come for the beer and stay for the food but on the off chance they come for more nefarious reasons refer to my prior comment.

  4. avatar gs650g says:

    The secret is not to be found in the first place. Failing that make it very hard to get in. The longer it takes the fewer advantages they have. You can fortify your home interior any way you like and if an uninvited guest is injured thats too bad. Use video and audio recording to an alarm to record the event pushed to the net over a wireless connection. By tbe time they realize they are on tape it will be too late.
    You have to beat them after the fact.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      Unless I am mistaken it is illegal to set booby traps (IEDs) or other harmful devices even inside your home. Active defense by whatever may be handy, including chlorine gas bombs, okay. Placing traps, not so much.

      1. avatar gs650g says:

        Who said anything about ied devices? The clutter on the floor is a hazard. So is that loose handrail on the steps and the laundry basket.

  5. avatar A-Rod says:

    Why would they come to my house? I am not in the drug trade. I live in a largely white neighborhood outside the city limits. Oh, it’s cuz I vote Democrat. That’s it. Someone tied voting records to a list of mental illnesses and now they are coming for my stuff. Shit!

      1. avatar A-Rod says:

        SWAT Team members names should be made public knowledge.

        1. avatar Chuck Pelto says:

          Should be….but won’t. It’s part of the police-state mentality…..

      2. avatar Ralph says:

        “[The] wife spoke through tears as she described an encounter with a girl who used to see the couple walking their dogs.

        “She gave me a big hug and she said, ‘If the police shot your dogs dead and did this to you, how can I trust them?'”

        Even such a naive question deserves an answer. “You can’t trust them. You never should.”

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      “Why would they come to my house?”

      Uh… because they had a search warrant for your next-door neighbor’s house?

  6. avatar CA.Ben says:

    I employ a strict “shoot first ask questions later” policy when it comes to unknown people breaking into my house. My worry it that, with the proliferation of no-knock raids, how will I tell the difference between police and home invaders? Is there really a difference anymore?

    1. avatar A-Rod says:

      When enough cops start getting killed in no knock raids then they will change their tactics.
      When enough 107 year old and younger citizens get killed in no knock raids then the people (taxpayers) will start changing their tax payment methods.

      1. avatar Chuck Pelto says:

        TO: A-Rod
        RE: Change of Tactics?

        How?

        Burn down the house…outright?

        Use tank main gun rounds to ‘open the door’?

        That’ll go over well. Especially with the neighbors in the apartment complex.

        Then there are the robots. But there are tungsten 000-buck shotgun rounds that will take those out.

        Regards,

        Chuck(le)
        [Tactics: breathmints for dyslexics.]

        P.S. As for taxpayers changing their payment methods…..

        …..that’ll likely be more justification for murderous no-knock raids by the ‘government’ to seize property.

      2. avatar Russ Bixby says:

        The 107 year old was killed when he repeatedly fired on officers who had been summoned by the homeowners following his attack on them.

        It’s unfortunate, and his death likely wasn’t necessary, but a no-knock raid it wasn’t.

  7. avatar Hidden Hills says:

    Where, DeKalb County, Georgia?

    1. avatar Hasdrubal says:

      Yes, GA. This was on PoliceOne not too long ago, with most of the comments being along the lines of WTF/facepalm.

    2. avatar WildWest says:

      The city of Atlanta Georgia is contained (10% of it or so) within DeKalb County.

      1. avatar Ed Ranger says:

        The same Dekalb Co. whose County Manager was recently removed by the Governor after the manager’s indictment for corruption. Just sayin’.

        Oh, and lest we forget, the same county where the High Sheriff, Sidney Dorsey in 2002, was found guilty of murder when men he had hired as deputies assassinated the man who had just defeated him in an election.

        1. avatar Russ Bixby says:

          Icky.

          My sheriff lives two and a fraction miles north on my dirt road and raises prize-winning pigs. Seriously.

          He’s a solid, Salt o’ the Earth type about whom noone has an unkind word.

          Glad I’m here.

    3. avatar William Burke says:

      Atlanta.

  8. avatar C says:

    The thing about resisting the police is that no matter how in the right you are, they and all of their friends have a lot of guns and don’t like their authority questioned.

    1. avatar Rev. Maurice Pompitous says:

      Amen C!
      If it happens, you are truly f**ked! The important thing is to make sure you’re not dead as well. Sure I’m calling my lawyer, the media, my Aunt Hilda, but if I went to the door with a gun fearing a break in, the gun is disappearing fast and I’m locking my dog in the bathroom. Then it’s keep my mouth shut and pray. If the cop on the other side of my door sounds like the one in the video, a picture of the President is going up over the mantel pronto.

    2. avatar William Burke says:

      Yep. Your primary mission is always to not get killed by them.

  9. avatar Jim R says:

    Go quietly.
    Invoke my 5th Amendment rights.
    Lawyer up.

    1. avatar In Memphis says:

      Yup!!!

      Im not ganna suicide myself in the name of civil rights hoping that after the police shoot me they will publicly admit they made a mistake.

    2. avatar Ross says:

      Jim R,

      Yes if they have a warrant.

  10. avatar Jake says:

    Genuine question for the forum. Who would actually believe someone speaking that gutter trash gibberish if they said they were a cop? If I heard that verbal constipation occurring outside my door the immediate assumption would be that the thug attempting to gain entry was even dimmer (or worse, higher) than most thinking anyone would believe he was a cop speaking like that.

    I sat sickened through that whole thing, and my favorite part had to be when the garbage speak cop decided to mention to the family that THEIR actions had set black people back FOWTY FIY YIYAHS. Dude can’t even tell the difference between the phrases “college student” and “college graduate”

    1. avatar gs650g says:

      And if you think those 240 lb geniuses know the first thing about constitutional law I have a bridge for sale. Reminds me of the guard dogs in Animal Farm.

    2. avatar MothaLova says:

      In my experience in New York City, it’s par for the course. Many police officers have no sense of decorum and curse at citizens without restraint.

      1. avatar Jake says:

        Oh NYC is just a totally different animal. Half are the tatted and ‘roided up military of the sovereign papacy of Bloombergistan, the other half are fat sweat machines or tiny waifish diversity hires who look like they shouldn’t handle a pen, nevermind a gun or a disagreeable perp.

        1. avatar MothaLova says:

          I’ve never heard it said better.

      2. avatar Scout says:

        Same in Chicago. I have been given lots of interresting names by CPD for pulling a very low wheelie accelerating from a stop sign once. Strangely enough no ticket.

    3. avatar Larry says:

      No doubt that whole thing was just wrong. If anything the cops sounded like thugs.

  11. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

    Well this is all so very dramatic, but nowhere in the video did I hear or see any reason why the deputies were there in the first place. I heard over and over about the alleged misunderstanding over the address, but I didn’t see a warrant produced documenting any targeted address. I did hear the woman recite a litany of charges against named officers; but I have no idea what the background is for all of that.

    I’m thoroughly confused by what this video is supposed to be. Is this a case of rogue cops harassing and retaliating against a family because they’ve protested or videoed something somewhere in the past? Perhaps. Is this a matter of a family of criminals of some sort trying to cover their illegal activities by throwing up civil disobedience and civil rights smokescreens? Perhaps.

    I don’t doubt these imperious police consider themselves above the law and lament the fact that there are laws at all. Their unprofessionalism attests to that. However, I’m not seeing enough information here to explain what’s actually happening. Without that, there’s no context to assess who’s in the right or the wrong because I don’t know what standard to compare everyone’s actions against.

    Bottom line is, if there’s no warrant or they’re at the wrong address, then go upstairs and yell out the window for them to come back when they have their shit together. Call the media if it gets worse. If there’s a proper warrant, then open up the damn door, get it over with, and go fight it out in court tomorrow so your neighbors with jobs can get some freakin’ sleep.

    1. avatar johnmackay70 says:

      This was in Dekalb County Ga (Atlanta) and the woman there had an encounter with one of the officers at the scene in this video in the past – apparently the officer broke her finger and she filed charges/had an investigation started against him.

      As far as I know, this is not a family of dangerous/career criminals, but the woman in the video did have some unpaid fines court fines and that is what the she was finally arrested for.

      Why in the heck does a team of police officers need to go to someones home in the middle of the night for unpaid fines, never once showing a warrant (they probably had one with incorrect address, that is probably why it was not shown). Why would one of the officers there be the same officer that she had an investigation against…sounds a lot like payback/intimidation to me.

      1. avatar gs650g says:

        They didn’t take the door. Probably because the address was wrong. They needed them to open the door. They should have waited until the cops needed to use a bathroom and left.

  12. avatar Cliff H says:

    This tape and the attitude of the Sheriffs in question piss me off so bad that I can’t think of anything else to say.

  13. avatar dale says:

    With that much time… I’d have called my lawyer, the local news agencies…the list goes on.

    Also, this is exactly why you don’t start talking. It will never help you and WILL eventually get you in trouble. The only words out of your mouth should be LAWYER.

  14. avatar Mighty Mo says:

    DEKALB COUNTY?!?! These are the same idiots that voted for Hank Johnson, the anti gun US REP who thought Guam was going to tip over……and then they re-elected him!!!! Sorry folks….you get what you pay for. I don’t feel sorry for anyone from Chicago or New York or Colorado or California (etc, etc, etc,) either.

  15. avatar JC79 says:

    Here is a response from the Dekalb County Sheriff’s Department spokesman Lieutenant Kyle K. Jones.

    http://www.atlantadailyworld.com/201308098142/Original/sheriff-s-department-responds-to-video-alleging-deputies-stormed-into-wrong-house-and-abused-occupants

    A video that has gone viral on popular website WorldStarHipHop.com has landed some Dekalb County Sheriff’s deputies in hot water.

    The video appears to show hostile officers banging loudly on a door at the wrong house for nearly an hour before being let inside where they verbally and physically assault the young men. But according to a Dekalb County Sheriff’s Department spokesman, the recording is more hype than truth.

    “At no time were we at the wrong address,” Dekalb County Sheriff’s Department spokesman Lieutenant Kyle K. Jones told the Daily World. “That’s just more sensationalism for the video. They had a valid arrest warrant for the female occupant of the residence. At no time did we announce that we wanted any other address than the address that we were at.”

    Donavan Hall and his younger brother shot the 20-minute edited video, which was uploaded on Thursday and is said to have taken place July 26, 2013, on their cell phones. The video appears to show deputies outside the family’s Ellenwood home starting at around 1:30 a.m. Once they are let inside, the officers are heard using profane language and threatening to use a taser on occupants of the home on several different occasions.

    The deputies seen in the video are still on active duty, according to Jones, but they will be disciplined accordingly at the conclusion of an investigation, he said.

    “We don’t train our deputies to conduct themselves like that,” Jones told the Daily World. “The verbal abuse, we don’t condone that. And that’s gonna be dealt with.”

    In an earlier interview with WSB, Hall said that the deputies loud banging woke up the family and when they finally opened the door the deputies charged in and abused them.

    “Once I get back here I’m like ‘Please stop,’ the officer’s gun butts me in the face and then I fall backwards,” Hall said.

    Jones said the occupants of the house were throwing things back and forth and moving quickly. While he maintains the deputies were at the right place and had every right to be at the house, he says the language used on the video, including the threats by deputies to use a Taser on the occupants, was unacceptable.

    “As for the claims of physical abuse by the deputies I can’t see any physical abuse on the tape…so I can’t speak to that ’til the conclusion of the investigation,” Jones said. “But what is clear, and we can agree on that, is there was verbal abuse and that’s gonna be dealt with, along with whatever other policy violation comes out of the investigation.”

    Dekalb County Sheriff Tom Brown also responded to the video, telling the AJC that he understood why his deputies were frustrated, but that their actions were still not justified.

    “I’m sure the officers were teed off because the family kept them outside for a (half) hour and told them they had the wrong address,” said Brown, who is considering running for Congress. “But the behavior of my officers was totally unacceptable and it will not be tolerated. It will be addressed and addressed very quickly.”

    1. avatar JusBill says:

      Paid vacay…

  16. avatar styrgwillidar says:

    Guess I’m an idiot, but I would have answered the door after the first knock and confirming who they were through the peep hole. Gone outside closing the door behind me, and talked to them on the porch. Someone inside calling 911 asking them to also confirm what is going on. No warrant, no entry.

    1. avatar JusBill says:

      You are an idiot. In a situation like that you don’t “go outside” unless they take you outside, usually in handcuffs, sometimes in the air along the way to outside.

      1. avatar Mighty Mo says:

        He’s not an idiot! Remember….we have no idea what occurred prior to them starting the recording on their cell phones. For all we know these officers may have rolled up and been perfectly polite at first. I’m not saying that’s what happened because they obviously didn’t handle themselves very well but, who doesn’t open the door and try to find out what the police need when they show up? Here’s the kicker….if they do have a warrant….they’re coming in anyway. If they don’t have a warrant…..anything they find is inadmissible. So why not open the GD door?!?! ‘Cuz mama’s goin 2 jail….das why!

        1. avatar Vhyrus says:

          If they don’t have a warrant and you let them in it’s called ‘in plain view’ and you do a stretch in county. Look it up.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_view_doctrine

  17. avatar Stilicho says:

    Across this nation, we have collectively traded Sheriff Andy Taylor for up-armored Barney Fifes with predictable results.

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      Except they have more than one bullet.

  18. avatar sindaan says:

    Yeah the advice about being quiet and calling a lawyer is the right advice. The officers speak like they have a 9th grade education.

    1. avatar JC79 says:

      My 15 yr old 9th grade cousin takes offense to that. 🙂

      1. avatar Jacen says:

        Then she’s too smart for her own good

  19. avatar Paul T. McCain says:

    Cops behaved badly as did the Derps in the house.

    Raising the BS flag to half-mast on this one.

  20. avatar Out_Fang_Thief says:

    “You set us all back 45 years.” said one of the warrant-less police home invaders.
    Well, he just set us all back 237 years when the British were doing this very thing.
    Everyone LEO involved should be terminated, and lose all pensions and benefits.
    That’s just for starters. IMO, these Po-leese should be charged with impersonating
    the police. Shamefully, they do an excellent job of impersonating jack-booted thugs.
    Let’s all take a wild guess on who these civil rights violators voted for for president.
    Obama said he wanted a domestic security force equal to the military. He’s got it.
    Obama is only an Executive Order away from federalizing all police in America,
    and due to the militarization of the police, his domestic security force equal to the
    military, is already in place. Remove the ability for anyone to possess a full auto
    firearm through an intentional rewriting the NFA trust provisions, will seal the deal.

    I want this security system for all my entry doors.




    PLEASE DO NOT LINK YOUTUBE VIDEOS INLINE

  21. avatar KCK says:

    Big talk from a lot of folks.
    Logic tree
    Warrant
    yes let them in
    No let them bust the door down
    Pick up settlement check later

    1. avatar 16V says:

      Would rather live facing massive legal bills,
      than rely on slim odds of heirs getting
      (mostly imaginary) settlement.

  22. avatar NEIOWA says:

    1.) Keep a landline telephone at your residence so the local 911 (PSAP) center can pullup an accurate address. Pay the $20/m; in particular if have kids in the house.
    2.) Do you know the local sheriff and chief police by name? Stop and introduce yourself. Local POPO realized you know the boss man by name may slow him down.
    3.) Have your attorney’s cell # on your phone? Fit it.
    4.) Have adult women, to whom you are not married, shacking up at your residence? Fix it.
    5.) Have criminals or criminal activity (including pot) at your residence? Fix it.

    1. avatar Vhyrus says:

      Could you please tell me what in the flying hell #4 has to do with the way cops treat you?

      If a cop busts down my door because my fiance and I aren’t married then I will gladly go out shooting because I don’t want to live on this planet anymore.

  23. avatar Matt in FL says:

    The thing that got me was after they got inside, at least one of the cops was making fun of the occupants stated concern that they weren’t real cops. I can understand both sides of that. But the thing I didn’t hear mentioned, and how I would have felt if it was me inside the house, is that while yes, I would be concerned that the people outside weren’t real cops, once those concerns were assuaged I still would be worried that the people outside WERE real cops. I would be concerned for how they would behave once I did open the door, and based on this video, my concerns would have been justified.

    Those cops’ statements of “You’re lucky that’s all I did” and “I oughta tase you for what you made us do” and “That’s what you get when you don’t open the door when I tell you to,” as well as the physical actions that accompanied those statements were completely, utterly out of line. What these douchebags, and anyone who thinks like them need to be taught is: When you pin on the badge, you completely lose any right whatsoever to act in a petulant, retaliatory, or retributive manner.

    I’m glad to hear they will be disciplined, and I hope the discipline will be severe enough both to chasten the officers involved and pour encourager les autres.

    1. avatar chuck (slave to nj) says:

      Their discipline should be taken straight from the cops mouth when he said he wished he could cane them.

    2. avatar Stinkeye says:

      “I’m glad to hear they will be disciplined, and I hope the discipline will be severe enough both to chasten the officers involved and pour encourager les autres.”

      Oh, Matt, that is absolutely adorable. You keep hopin’, Sport!

      1. avatar Matt in FL says:

        I like to balance my asshole cynicism with a healthy measure of polyanna hopeful blind optimism.

  24. avatar Hasdrubal says:

    So, where to start with this one? They should all be fired. That’s a good start. Unfortunately, if they acted like this knowing they were being filmed, it’s probably a departmental culture thing and the supervisors may well act the same way. If that’s the case, I think they deserve some federal oversight much more than Seattle did.

    Aside from the shocking and nauseating unprofessional language and demeanor, they turned out to be there for a warrant service on the mother, who I think was the one who broke down crying from the stress. Warrants are obviously a legitimate reason to arrest someone, but apparently this was for failure to pay a fine on some civil matter.

    The manner in which a warrant is served is relative to the severity of the warrant/crime for which it was issued. A warrant for murder may be appropriate for SWAT service, if the suspect is known to be violent and likely to resist. A warrant for suspended driving may be appropriate for a knock on the door and a “hey, if you don’t want to come outside, just go down to the court and take care of it Monday morning.”

    A civil fine warrant probably deserves less serious attention than a suspended driving warrant, and certainly is not appropriate for service at any time at 1am, unless you know the suspect works nights and is likely to be awake. After the knock on the door, and an announcement of why you’re there (not legally required, but appropriate for warrant service), if they say “up yours, pig,” then you leave and get them later when they’re driving somewhere.

    Now, on the other hand, I’ve dealt with hundreds of people at work over the last few years. Some of these have been accused of crimes. Some of these have been arrested. About 90% of these have told me they didn’t do it. Half of those would even swear to God they didn’t do it. Even the ones who were seen on video, or were found with evidence in pockets/backpacks.

    Many of these told me I had the wrong person, or told me they were a different person. Some of them, even the ones who admitted they did it, broke down crying and asked or begged to not be arrested. One even said he shouldn’t go to jail on his warrant because he wouldn’t be able to bail out for Christmas. “You have the wrong address,” kind of falls along the same lines.

    So no, this never should have happened. I’m not going to try and pin some of the blame on the people inside, either. All I’m saying is that not everything people say to or about the police is true, even if it’s on a Youtube video.

    1. avatar Matt in FL says:

      As far as the 0130 service of a warrant on a civil fine, one of the stories I read said that as a result of this incident, the DeKalb County Sheriff’s office was going rejigger their procedures for serving warrants, so that something like this doesn’t happen again over such a petty issue.

      1. avatar MothaLova says:

        “Rejigger” is racist.

        (sarcasm)

      2. avatar JusBill says:

        Don’t rejoice yet. They may change it to the 107 year-old-man mode. It would be nice if public TTP review was available and used. Yeah, I’m dreaming.

    2. avatar 16V says:

      Except they won’t be fired. They might have to ride a desk for a week till this blows over and we all know it. If there is some momentum, maybe they’ll get a few days unpaid suspension, which will quickly be re-paid by some bonus OT. As to “Police One” I don’t bother reading it, the local boards are where true colors fly.

      This is not an aberration, this is SOP in every major in the US. ‘Command and control’ regardless of any more logical and rational solution set, is what is taught in academy all across the country, and has been for decades. Yelling and screaming “mutha-effer this and that” at the top of your lungs is part and parcel of many an arrest, especially one that the suspect resists even the slightest (and by resisting, I mean even verbally protesting).

      I know there are still officers out there who believe in professionalism, and actually conduct themselves in the manner which they were sworn to uphold. Unfortunately, in every major metro they’re the ‘boy scouts’ of the squad/platoon. They will conduct themselves properly, but they aren’t going to do a darn thing about the cowboys, because they can’t. And the middle of the bell-curve is just there for the toys, the money, and benes – they are not going to rock any boats.

      I’m also sure there are a few departments out there that do actually live up to those high ideals, and thanks for doing the job they were hired to do with some integrity. If you do live up to that great, but the leaders of the pack don’t, the followers go along to get along, and the boy scouts can find themselves lost in the wilderness.

  25. avatar Matt in FL says:

    Tell Eric Holder that if he wants to investigate a civil rights violation, he should drop that Zimmerman BS and get onto this.

    1. avatar JusBill says:

      Sure thing. Just like the FBI “monitors” the other departments on the bad-boy list. Show up at Roll, then off to do “real police work” in THEIR office. Waste of taxpayer money.

    2. avatar Anonymous says:

      He doesn’t want to lose any MAIG paychecks.

  26. avatar Henry Bowman says:

    From a tactical perspective, it is too late at this point. You’re outnumbered and outgunned. You don’t let the enemy determine the terms of the fight. You should always fight on your own terms… meaning, don’t wait for them to come to your house.

  27. avatar MothaLova says:

    I wouldn’t shoot. The police here are not threatening to kill anyone (tasing isn’t the same, although it does present a slight risk of death, admittedly). If they were saying they were going to shoot when they came in, the situation would be different. Unfortunately, the best option is to videotape the incident, stay calm, and seek redress in the courts. If you shoot, everything the police did wrong will appear justified.

    One of the big problems is that the unions and political correctness in general protect officers like this from being fired immediately. Instead, they will be “disciplined” and kept on the force.

  28. avatar MothaLova says:

    But let me add, I am stupefied. First of all, it sounds like the slow class from public school taking over the advanced class in a Christian private school. Second, the police not only threaten repeatedly to tase citizens who are not resisting, and they not only they yell crass insult after crass insult, they also say over and over that when the police say to open the door, the door must be opened! (“You supposed to open the door when you see the police!”)

    Now who the heck is instructing these men in elementary constitutional rights during their training – or have they received no such training at all?

    1. avatar 16V says:

      They’ve received plenty of real-world experience. Which is that this is what you do, and it will go unpunished.

      1. avatar MothaLova says:

        I am sure you are absolutely right, sadly.

  29. avatar Hidden Hills says:

    Are charges in place ?

  30. avatar Bob4 says:

    My experience has taught me that most police officers are on our side, but there are a few that are bad who make the news or manage large departments. So, I would say it is a little early to barricade the house. 🙂 But if you decide to barricade your house, deep swimming pools are more affective than trebuchets. (Men in body armor and carrying lots of ammo do not float.) 😀

    1. avatar Jacen says:

      So we should all own a house with a moat?

      1. avatar Bob4 says:

        The most idea was a joke. Sorry, my sense of humor is a bit dry sometimes. True, a moat or oversized swimming pool would be a formidable obstacle for anyone in heavy gear. In my county, I know and trust the local police. The only reason they will come to my property is if I call them, and I do not want any obstacle between me and help. If the feds take an interest in me, if they are at my house, it is already too late for a good outcome. Barricades usually do not work.

  31. avatar Mediocrates says:

    the best kind of victory in this situation is to bleed Dekalb County dry of its monetary resources. I’d be happy to sit on this jury.

  32. avatar Drew says:

    Where is the law that requires anyone to answer the door when a cop (or anyone) knocks? if they had a warrant, a knock was unnecessary though a nice gesture for a short while.. but 30+ minutes? sounds suspiciously like they did not have the authority to force open the door, which is also NOT the authority to enter the premises without permission.

    the situation would have been much smoother had they answered the door immediately, but at 1am in the morning verifying a badge number with 911 or local sheriff’s office makes sense.

    the unfortunate example is that the unprofessional behavior is becoming more the norm and there is no disciplinary action unless recorded and shown for the bully behavior that it is.

    1. avatar MothaLova says:

      Yeah, seriously. I wouldn’t have answered the door myself. Maybe they would have gone away after a while. On the other hand, if they had chosen to break it down, I would have gone quietly after doing everything I could do calmly to make sure my family was not being hurt (apart from being terrified).

  33. avatar Zack says:

    Some great (read: disturbing as hell) quotes from Deklab County Sheriff in a follow up article on HuffPo:
    “In this particular case [my officers] did not cross a line, they just got verbally out of hand,” – what they did was okay
    “I do not characterize their language as a threat, because I think [the officers] were just angry and had an adrenaline rush.” – a threat to tase someone, repeatedly, isn’t a threat when his boys do it.
    and my personal favorite: “If she would have acted like a parent and set by example for her children how to cooperate with law enforcement, it would have been a much better scenario,” – because no out-of-hand nothing to see here’ story is complete without blaming the victims.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/09/dekalb-sheriff-brutality_n_3733854.html

  34. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    The officers in this video are a disgrace because they do not respect their fellow citizens.

    It is a fact that police have gone to the wrong address to execute search warrants. They can go to the front door, knock, and present their warrant. If they do not have a warrant, they have no business being there. If the police are worried that a criminal would shoot them through the door when they knock on the door, they can approach behind a large ballistic shield to knock on the door and talk. This crap has to stop.

    Is there any indication whether this happened in DeKalb County Georgia or Illinois?

    1. avatar Matt in FL says:

      What, you couldn’t tell by the accents? Georgia.

  35. avatar Jim Bullock says:

    As usual, this is a policy, protocol and prosecution problem.

    Policy – Why is an assault platoon service an administrative warrant to non-violent folks in the middle of the night? Are we now measuring success by how much testosterone, disruption and gear is involved vs. how little?

    Protocol – What’s the police protocol for actually dealing with people? Why this protocol? The cops are going to act like that, I’m not letting them in either. And in what world is summary punishment for contempt of cop part of the protocol?

    Prosecution – Government agents can’t be prosecuted a lot of the time, and won’t be prosecuted the rest. Latitude and some protections – yes. Benefit of the doubt even. Free pass, no.

    As for what to do, get a record, call your lawyer, call the DA, and get other observers involved.

  36. avatar William Burke says:

    I’m reasonably sure the street number was beside the door. Assuming they could read numbers, there’s no reason this should have happened.

    I think it’s fair to assume they just forgot or set aside serving the warrant because they were pissed the residents were resisting their unlawful behavior.

    These guys need to be fired, arrested and prosecuted. And convicted. And sentenced to jail time.

  37. avatar William Burke says:

    The written commentary is unnecessary, and actually detracts from the message the tape delivers so clearly.

    The film speaks for itself.

    1. avatar JaredFromTampa says:

      +1

  38. avatar vactor says:

    saw a sargeant walk into traffic (very busy sat nite in bar scene part of town) and step in front of a motorcylce going maybe walking speed or less. bike immediately stopped and turned off bike and hands CLEARLY visible, Sgt draws on biker and ponts gun at him and tells him he will shoot his motherf’ing aXX. for no reason at all. in the end, yells at biker and gives him a ticket for a loud muffler. it was insane. i did not know if the Sgt was drunk, high, insane or what. it was incredible and scared the hell out of me! it can, and it WILL happen.
    in chicago.

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      ‘Roided out. Betcha.

  39. avatar Frank Masotti says:

    By my read of the constitution, without a search warrant, or probable cause, at the time they came in, it was an illegal act, thus they were not acting as police officers. What am I gonna do? Shoot to kill. Because as I stated they were not following the law.

  40. avatar Comrade X says:

    The issue isn’t about what one person will or can do, it is about whether people rights are getting trampled and what “THE” people will do sooner or later.

    You see a couple hundred years ago people rights got trampled, excess taxes, home invasions by armed agents of the state, little things like that.

    People put up with it, complained protested heck even dressed up like Indians and threw tea into a bay but there was something else that was happening too, more and more people started preparing for something, IMHO they didn’t know exactly what but they knew they needed to prepare kinda like a squirrel gathering and preparing for a coming change in the weather but this change was a little different. They even started practicing and calling themselves the word we can not say today; the “M” word.

    It was a lot of people but not even close to a majority; you know they say it only takes about 3% to make change; well one day the word went out that the government was coming to take their guns and one of these groups a small little group, out numbered at least 10 to one; stood, of course they didn’t stand long but then again the word got out about that stand and guess what; the government men soon found themselves out number that day by 10 to 1 by a bunched of really pissed off people with guns.

    Things didn’t get right over night, for sure, there was much suffering, death & horror; but there are some like me who feel that the price that was paid was worth it, one guy even said;

    “These are the times that try men’s souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman….

    Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph….” Thomas Paine

    So the question we all must ask ourselves is if we keep on the road we are on, a road of less liberty and more government & tyranny, where does that road lead, methinks to a little green one day in a small town with a name like Lexington or some such.

  41. avatar AngryGerman says:

    First: The video starts with the cops banging on the door aggressively, which leads us to believe the persons inside must have done something wrong or done something to righteously anger the cops.

    It’s cute how there are so many posts about people wanting to going to battle with the cops. You will lose, it’s simple numbers. They have more. And once you fire, they will shoot back and you’re entire family that you think you are protecting is going to get shot. Not to forget, we know nothing of what happened before the video started.

    That kind of talk isn’t what you expect to hear from rational gun owning Americans. Especially like most of the regulars around.

    But its exactly the type of talk that you would expect to hear from a bunch of liberals posting like “Hardcore Merican Gun Advoactes!” How many posts on this website do you actually think are genuine and how many out there are from liberal trolls of the internet gunning to make this sight lose is credibility?

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      my sight lost its credibility years ago.

      1. avatar AngryGerman says:

        haha, aye aye aye, touche.

        What transpired before the video started? Still curious.

    2. avatar MothaLova says:

      This is why I’d love to have paying accounts at TTAG. Nothing expensive. Maybe $5 for the year. But just enough to keep out the trolls.

      1. avatar William Burke says:

        Good point; I’m gonna give that the thumbs-up.

  42. avatar Hazzard Bagg says:

    Do people who speak English as poorly as that police supervisor really exist in the real world? He was like a male Rachel Jeantel.

    1. avatar MothaLova says:

      Most of the government exists to employ people who are otherwise unemployable.

      1. avatar 16V says:

        That’s the thing – ‘back in the day’ a gov job (save for elected office) was a ‘jobs program’, not something where pinheads went to “save the children”.

        They were (generally) nice folks who weren’t likely to make it in the ‘real world’ of employment, but they performed a function and that was to follow the rules and serve us, the people who pay their salaries. They have been converted into fiefdom cogs of a ruling class machine.

        1. avatar William Burke says:

          +100, my favorite post of the day.

  43. avatar SkyMan77 says:

    The only thing those slack-jawed, jack-booted thugs said that made any sense was “I don’t care”. I find that to be a very profound statement about the growing ranks of these d*ckheads… They lack a very fundamental ability to care…

  44. avatar Chris says:

    I did some work in Johannesburg, South Africa in 1993 a year before apartheid ended and again in 2000. I’ve lived in a tyrannical place, where 10% of the population ruled all and if you didn’t have a bus pass or were at the bus rank to get back in the township when the horn blew at 1800 the police could quite legally kick the shit out of you. I pretty much decided then 2 things:
    1. I will never again be off US soil on July forth.
    2. Death must be better than tyranny.

  45. avatar Out_Fang_Thief says:

    Something I missed the first time around. Did anyone notice “inside” the house?
    This was no barrio or run-down apartment complex door they were banging on.
    By the look of it, this was a fairly well appointed manse the cops were crashing.
    Large entryway, stairs to the second floor, balcony overlooking the living room.
    It wasn’t until the mother was in the frame that I sensed any race or color of
    anyone I heard in the video. Then we get to hear the dialogue and speech of
    the officers screaming insults, and degrading comments. One officer calls the
    college grad a “poor excuse for a man.” or something like that. How interesting?
    The ghetto-slang slinging “Po-leese” officer versus the well spoken, non-ghetto
    slangin’ college grad. Envy much, resent much, officer Ghetto-mouth? I think
    there’s more going on here than meets the eye and ear. Did these Po-leese
    resent another black man for being educated and not talking ghetto like them?
    In the eyes of these Po-leese, did this homeowner sound too damned white for
    their ignorant ghetto sensibilities? This has the smell of black on black racism
    of the brown paper bag kind. If you’re too light, then you’re too white, and in
    this case, too edumacated for the boys in blue. Just wondering.

    1. avatar MothaLova says:

      I didn’t read that much into it. What I saw were ignorant bullies using their greater physical might to attack a civilized and remarkably polite family. Those with more power are always in danger of becoming brutes; those with less power are always in danger of becoming victims.

    2. avatar William Burke says:

      “stairs to the second floor”

      That’s the mark of a class joint, I always say. None of them ladders to the second floor, like in the ghetto!

  46. avatar Tom RKBA says:

    It seems to me that two cops in an unmarked car down the block would have been a better way to go about this. They would have picked up the mother when she went out for Starbucks. How difficult is that?

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      Why would they need to pick her up AT ALL, over such a small issue? Wouldn’t a summons be far more appropriate?

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