This Is What Happens to A Disarmed Populace: Detroit Edition

Back in the day, Martin Albright told readers to bring a concealed carry pistol to a post-apocalyptic party. Martin reckoned the militia/police/Army/National Guard/gangs/whoever would swoop on anyone openly carrying a long gun. He also pointed out that the S hits the F slowly. Garbage collection becomes unreliable. Roads aren’t repaired. Electricity service becomes hit or miss. Jobs disappear. It’s a long slow slide into dog-eat-dog disorder. Disarmament speeds the process. “Instead of peaceful families cowering in fear that the next knock on the door might be a savage gang coming to kill them,” Steve Curtis wrote, “criminals should be fleeing the city because Detroit has become too well-defended to provide the ‘easy pickings’ they have, up to now, enjoyed.” Didn’t happen. Won’t happen. Watch what happens. It won’t be pretty. Nor, I’m afraid, will it be unusual, as corrupt, pension-laden urban governments face fiscal reality. Get a gun? Nope. Too late. Move. If you haven’t already. If you can.

comments

  1. avatar peirsonb says:

    Does it bother anyone else that their logo bears a striking resemblance to the Omni Consumer Products logo?

    images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730163943/robocop/images/2/2e/Ocp.jpg

    1. avatar disthunder says:

      It was foretold. Now we just wait for Red Foreman to make his rise to power.

      1. avatar Dr. Kenneth Noisewater says:

        Dumbasses Leave!

    2. avatar dwb says:

      sorry I am not seeing it. I see an octagon, circle, and a biohazard symbol. No resemblance to the robocop logo, other than both are somewhat octagon shaped.

    3. avatar Greg C says:

      On a side note, they are remaking Robocop.
      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1234721/?ref_=nv_sr_1

    4. avatar jirdesteva says:

      The second I saw the clip my thoughts went straight to “ROBO-COP”. Private contractors that act as the police.

      1. avatar Cliff H says:

        I understand the reference to the movie, but their spokesman in the clip made it very clear that their job was to prevent crime, not respond to it. Big difference, and they are apparently very good at it.

        The one statistic I did not hear that I was hoping for is how many bad guys, in the course of preventing crime, have these guys “brought to justice”? That is, not just deterred, but captured or eliminated? Would be interesting to know because if the number is low then it proves the point for our side that the presence of defensive firearms really does deter crime.

        As a third point, it looks like in a few more years Detroit will be the perfect movie set for filming post-apocalyptic movies and TV shows. May be the city’s only source of income by then.

    5. avatar Jake says:

      Better than Judges

    6. avatar John S. says:

      That’s the first thing I thought, figured this HAD to be some kind of viral video marketing campaign for the new Robocop lol.

  2. avatar KingSarc48265 says:

    Shall issue CPL, Open carry, no mag cap laws, no AWB, no ‘cop killer bullet’ ban, no caliber restrictions, no registration, no special permit to own firearms. So how in the hell is Detroit a disarmed populace? Ugly skidmark resulting from liberal and corrupt minds running the show yes, but at least when I’m downtown I can have my EDC with me. Its an open sore on the face of the midwest, but not nearly as bad as Chicago.

    1. avatar RDK says:

      Yes…Michigan is pretty gun friendly but you are wrong about registration…Handguns are essentially registered as you need a purchase permit(not needed with CPL) but even with CPL you have to send it a form to the State with all the info. Also, you are the only person allowed to use your handgun(spouse with CPL)…you can’t give or loan it to others.

      1. avatar KingSarc48265 says:

        Not true, CPL can loan to any other CPL. After checking with local and state LE, I loaned a .38 snub to a friend while his EDC was on layaway. LEO’s only run your CPL # to verify if its valid anyway. Only one officer has ever asked to see my gun, it never came out of the holster, he just wanted to see where it was. Permits to purchase are gone January 1st.

        1. avatar freakshowSMVM says:

          Purchase permits are still alive and well, past January and well into the future unless we get them repealed this session

    2. avatar freakshowSMVM says:

      They do have registration in MI. Quite often local cops won’t issue the purchase permits to the poor(unlawfully) on grounds of background check errors and very limited hours to get purchase permits.

      Unlike with a CPL there’s no direct legal recourse to fight it without a good lawyer, most people there can’t afford a cpl to avoid crooked cops trying to make Detroit Chicago.

      1. avatar Al says:

        To clarify – No purchase permit has ever been required in Mi to purchase a long gun. The pistol purchase permit laws changed last December. They are no longer required to purchase a pistol from an FFL. They are required for private purchases. The permits don’t cost anything and are obtained from the local LEA. They’re good for 30 days (used to be only 10 days). When I went in for one a few months ago, there were no questions asked and no NICS check, Just filling out the form (the officer may have checked her computer to see if I had outstanding warrants without my knowledge, but I had no way of knowing that). You are required to turn in the pistol purchase record to your local LEA within 10 days of purchase, so that they can enter your information into the state pistol registry. So yes, there is handgun but not long gun registration.

        Mi is a “shall issue” state for Concealed carry and allows open carry of both pistols and long guns (although we had a couple of well publicized cases of long gun carriers being harassed and arrested by local LEO’s). I associate with a large group of people that open carry their pistols pretty much everywhere it is legal to do so. Not one of them has ever been harassed by an LEO for it.

        Despite a lot of misinformation that has been disseminated recently about “gun control in Detroit” over the internet, there is no such thing. Detroit doesn’t have any exceptions to state law.

        1. avatar Tony Preston says:

          While the permit to purchase is free it has to be notarized, and when I got mine you had to have it notarized by their notary, which was $30. My police department only let you get a permit on Fridays between 9AM-11AM. Also in addition to that I got asked the same questions about five times in the course of the process and was repeatedly told by the detective that the city I lived in was extremely safe and so many people owning guns made their jobs harder and more dangerous.

  3. avatar Dirk Diggler says:

    I used to live near Detroit (ann arbor) and work downtown . . . . I did move

    1. avatar Rory Carroll says:

      Ann Arbor is near Detroit?

  4. avatar Frodo says:

    The only problem is Detroit’s trash is moving to other areas of the nation and bringing
    problems into neighborhoods and cities that did not exist or were in a minute amount before they moved in.

  5. avatar joshintexas says:

    Michigan does require (at least did a couple years ago) you to obtain a pistol purchase permit from local law enforcement prior to buying a handgun. After the purchase, you must take your handgun to local law enforcement for a safety inspection and give them one of the triplicate copies of the permit (the other two going to the seller and purchaser). I witnessed the safety inspection of one of my guns. It consisted of recording the serial number and nothing else. Permit was required for both ffl and person to person transfers. My dad (louisiana resident) gave me a 1911 for my 21st birthday and nearly blew a gasket when he found out i had to go through the permit process. I miss open carry and the cool dense pine forrests of northern michigan but otherwise i love living in texas.

    1. avatar Dirk Diggler says:

      they got rid of the pistol permit process effective Jan 1st this year. . . . .

      1. You still need a permit for private transactions only. Not for a transaction from an FFL dealer. Also a CPL will serve as a permit.

        1. avatar freakshowSMVM says:

          And everything is still registered

    2. avatar knightofbob says:

      They did away with the “safety inspection” years ago, and apparently now you can obtain your permit from any law enforcement in the state.

  6. avatar dwb says:

    See, now this is where we need the open carry people, not in state capitol buildings. How about patrolling Detroit and doing some actual good.

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Very good point … deploying the militia for its intended purpose.

      1. avatar dwb says:

        Exactly!!!

      2. avatar Cliff H says:

        Then the question becomes; who gets to decide if it Is “Well regulated” enough?

        1. avatar BobH says:

          Actually, “well regulated” in the language of the time that the amendment was written actually means “to make regular”. English is a language that evolves. The meaning of words change often, and this is a case where it changed. The idea that “regulated” means to control an action or behavior came well after the amendment was ratified. This change in meaning is also used in the interstate commerce clause. The federal government was tasked to make interstate commerce regular…to promote it and encourage it. The federal government bastardized the meaning of the word years ago to claim they can make laws to limit and control commerce.

  7. avatar miforest says:

    I live less than 10 mi from the detroit city limits. michigan’s toughhest gun law is the pistol purchase law he cited in the article. We are however an Open cary state and a shall issue state. I have friends who work in he city every day. they tell me that once you get away from the central downtown area, that open carry is everywhere. the ccw costs ar $100 – 150 for a course, and $150- 175 for processing and photo fees, so people with less money just open carry.

    this is why it hasn’t gone to complete chaos . the DPD Is overtasked and do not hassle open carry as far as I know. It’s hard to generalize about a department that big, but All I’ve delt with have been professional and commptent. They also will get involved without waiting for SWAT to arrive.

    With the emergency manager running the show and the politicians out the police and fire departments are improving because they now get money for operations and a lot of the overhead has been put back on the streets.

    You really have to see this to believe it. The detroit close less than 20% of homicide last I heard. The 911 response time can be hours. nobody is kidding themselves here.

    The suburbs are doing ok . We figure Detroit will get a big federal bailout just before the 2014 elections. They are waiting to create drama and a sense of crisis. then they will swoop in , “save us ” and rally the troops for the election.

  8. avatar Dallas Warrior says:

    Wait a minute….Isn’t this the Robo-Cop movie EXACTLY?!?

    The logo for these private police people even matches OCP…..Where is ED-209?

    1. avatar Rambeast says:

      He’s on loan to disney as a stunt droid for Episode 7.

    2. avatar Russ Bixby says:

      I’m working on the stair and ladder algorithms, and the chassis is being retrofitted with a hybrid synergy drive system and AirSoft™ capability.

      Should be ready about 2016…

  9. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    Hmm. Detroit Threat Management (armed citizens protecting themselves and their community) sounds strangely like the militia to me. And they are effective. Go figure.

  10. avatar Nicholas says:

    TACTICAL TACTICAL TACTICAL!! What the hell is wrong with people who put the word tactical before everything!?!? does it add a cool factor? (I’m referring to the logo).

  11. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    “… the S hits the F slowly. … Disarmament speeds the process.”

    I don’t understand that commentary. Michigan has always been an open carry state and became a “shall issue” concealed carry state around 2001. And statewide preemption has been in effect since the mid 1990s or something like that.

    Then again, Detroit has been in decline since, what, the early 1970s when it was probably very risky to be armed for simple self defense? Perhaps that accelerated its decline.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      There have been many comments here about the gun-friendly and open carry Michigan, but no one has mentioned what the justice system in Detroit, or Michigan, decides is appropriate to deal with anyone who actually uses their weapon in a DGU. It would make no difference if it was an absolute no-holds-barred constitutional carry state if every time you pulled the trigger the state and local prosecutors piled on.

      1. avatar RDK says:

        Having lived here for 43 years I can tell you that the attitude of the majority of local cops and prosecutors is pretty much “Oh, so you killed a scumbag in self defense. Good..thanks for saving us the hassle…next!”

      2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        I have heard that the environment is pretty friendly toward justified citizen self-defense. In fact I thought I heard somewhere that Detroit leads the nation in justifiable homicides (citizens using firearms in self-defense).

        Michigan also enacted the Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground around 2005 or 2006.

        At one time I was considering relocating, and Colorado had fewer restrictions than Michigan. Now Michigan has fewer restrictions than Colorado. If I were going to move, I would choose Michigan over Colorado at this point in the game. (Of course Colorado has much better climate and outdoor recreation but that doesn’t outweigh onerous firearm restrictions in my book.)

  12. avatar Al says:

    The entire premise of the title of this post “This is what happens to a Disarmed populace” is completely wrong. Detroit is far from “disarmed.” In fact, Detroiters are quite heavily armed.

    1. avatar WarsawPactHeat says:

      Agreed. After seeing this article, I felt compelled to run downstairs and check inside my safe…I breathed a sigh of relief knowing I am still a very well armed Detroiter.

    2. avatar Cliff H says:

      I believe we need to understand that there are many ways to disarm a populace and passing restrictive and unconstitutional anti-gun legislation is not the only way. As I noted a few posts above, all the gun freedom you can stand isn’t worth crap if you are then prosecuted to a fair-thee-well for using that gun.

      The other VERY important means of disarmament is mentioned a few post later on this site – propagandize the low-information voters (of which Detroit has a plethora) to demonize ANYONE who has or wants a gun.

      Add to this the expense of obtaining a pistol and decent holster, even if you open carry, the expense of any training (which is high enough that most people would not bother) and the expense of ammunition if you want to do any practice on your own. And if these low-income people DO go to that trouble, what do they do with their pistol when the get to work, assuming they can find a job? All that gun freedom looks good on paper, but what are the realities for the man in the street?

      How about if your are as well armed as you can manage to be, open carrying on your way to the grocery, and a half dozen (also armed) hoods decide they like your gun? I’m afraid the answer to Detroit’s problems lie a lot deeper than whether or not open carry is legally permissible, but it is nice to know that if you can, you can.

      1. Detroiters defend themselves using firearms all the time, do a google search for Detroit shoots intruder or Detroit shoots robber for many results. There is usually an investigation but that’s it, unless it was gang related.

  13. avatar Jeff says:

    The guy being interviewed sounds very professional, but man their uniforms, vehicles, and logo/graphics do not give away that impression. Somebody watched too many bad action movies.

    1. avatar RobGR says:

      Reminds me of South Africa. Every home, business, school, building, etc… has a private security firm that protects it, armed with select fire R4s, and their graphics are very similar. They do not have the body armor these guys have though.

      Visiting after 15 years leave, I saw the drastic change, but what was mind boggling is that my family who stayed slowly adapted and accepted this way of “living” as the norm. It’s acceptable to them, hell, it’s just the way it is. There is no way I would want to raise my children in that environment. It’s amazing to see how quickly an environment can disintegrate and this thought is always in the back of my mind, it can happen very fast or steadily with the right set of events and nowhere is immune. People always say “it could never happen here”, but those people also ignore history.

    2. avatar Cliff H says:

      They are intentionally projecting an image of an absolutely competent and undefeatable security force and in the eyes of your average bad guy perception is reality. Their over-the-top Hollywood costuming may very well be one of the main keys to their success.

      1. avatar Al says:

        Correctamundo! Much more effective deterrent than a group of plainclothed folks concealed carrying.

  14. avatar Jus Bill says:

    Didn’t the Mafia invent and refine this business model in years past? Without the “Tacticool” uniforms and toyz, of course.

    1. avatar DisThunder says:

      Oh, they had uniforms and toys, but in the old days, those were overcoats, fedoras and Thompsons.
      I tell ya, it’s a lost art, doing things with class…

      1. avatar BobH says:

        This is a common strategy used in securing an asset. You dress up your security forces as a deterrence. You want potential opponents to believe they won’t win a confrontation. For what this company does, what they wear may have a lot to do with their claimed success. In todays world, however, a fedora and overcast has the opposite affect. But I agree, gone are the days where men had class. I spent many years wearing tacticool clothing, and you know, it gets old real quick and it really isn’t that cool after a few months. I envied the fact that OSI agents worked their days wearing cheap suits. Seriously, I did.

  15. avatar Jared says:

    If you comply with MCL 28.432(f) you do not need to register any handgun or obtain a purchase permit for a private sale.

    1. avatar RDK says:

      Disagree on the register part unless we are talking semantics. If a handgun changes ownership(sale) in the State of Michigan it needs to be reflected in the State database which mean in essence that it needs to be registered.

      1. avatar Jared says:

        Nothing requires the pistol registry to be up to date. The legislature writing a poor registration law doesn’t trump the plain language of the exemption of MCL 28.432(f). If you meet 28.432(f) you are completely exempt from the purchase permit/registration requirements.

        I recommend you read the statute and you will see what I am referring to.

  16. avatar Jared says:

    Come on Robert Farago. You lose credibility on this.

    Detroit is not “disarmed”. We have a state standard on gun laws in Michigan.

    You can open carry on foot with no license.

    Concealed carry is shall issue and the local police can’t prevent this like they could in Rhode Island.

    You can own Machine guns, and suppressors in Michigan (and in Detroit).

    We have no magazine ban, or AW ban.

    Get you facts straight and at least rename this article with a more honest name. Otherwise you are lying…. just as Piers Morgan does.

    1. avatar RobGR says:

      It’s good you chimed in, Jared, otherwise I would have been left with the impression the laws in MI were similar to that of CA. I enjoy reading Robert Farago’s articles and usually don’t second guess his stats or information. While many media channels perpetuate untruths, I would expect the “Truth” About Guns to adhere to facts with a thorough representation of our States and the events that affect 2A. Disappointing to find that this article has grossly misrepresented the guns laws of MI with a misleading title. However, nowhere does Mr Farago state that a citizen in MI cannot own the aforementioned items. Again though, it is a broad speculative title meant to sensationalize.

    2. avatar Accur81 says:

      I agree. I think a better headline would be along the lines of “Detroit: Response Times Inadequate, Private Security Protects Citizens.”

    3. avatar Cliff H says:

      Gentlemen, please. If a population is disarmed, it is disarmed. There may be many reasons for this fact not relating to the passage of unconstitutional laws, as discussed earlier in these comments.

      If a significant portion of the population cannot for economic reasons or logistical reasons or propaganda reasons avail themselves of weapons or use them or carry them while going about their daily affairs (gun free zones, no guns at work, no guns in schools, no place to safely store your gun when you must go to these places, etc., then the populace is disarmed. Can you carry on a city bus? If you do carry on a city bus, what do you do when you get to the post office?

      Regardless of the supposed “liberality” (ugh, there’s a misnomer) of Michigan’s open-carry laws, how many average, and especially lower-class, citizens do you see moving around Detroit armed? If the answer is, “Not all that many,” then for whatever reason, Detroit has a disarmed populace.

      Instead of taking RF to task, find out what is causing the problem in Detroit and work toward a solution. Maybe donate some surplus shotguns, training and ammunition like the guy in Houston? How about standing outside the gun by-back circuses and offering ten dollars apiece more than the government, then shipping those pistols and shotguns to FFLs in Detroit for sale to the economically challenged?
      How about some solutions rather than just criticism?

      1. avatar RDK says:

        See…that’s the point. The citizens of Detroit ARE NOT DISARMED by any rational standard. The author apparently is not from Detroit nor has he talked to many people who are. If he had he would know that the amount of people who owns guns in the city legally(and unfortunately illegally..ie felons in possession) is pretty freaking high. The amount that carry(both with or without permits) is also pretty damn high. Detroiters KNOW Detroit is dangerous and they do what they have to to protect themselves. For the most laws about carrying at post offices or without a permit don’t really cross their minds much. If you visited you find out that Detroiters are pretty hardy people with a general FOAD attitude towards authority.

      2. avatar Al says:

        There’s a very important difference between “unarmed” (a personal choice) and “disarmed” (by force of law). Detroit is not, and has never been, disarmed and many Detroiters are armed by choice and openly carry.

        This site is “The Truth About Guns,” so let’s be truthful.

      3. avatar Jared says:

        No Cliff,

        Please do not rationalize Robert Farago’s behavior on this.

        PLENTY of decent people in Detroit have CPL’s.

        Wayne County (where Detroit is) can barely keep up with the application rate.

        Robert Farago’s simply acting like Piers Morgan and he should correct his ignorant error if he wants to take the high road.

        Detroit isn’t New York City, Camden, NJ nor is it Baltimore.

        If you live in Detroit and you decide today you want to go buy a handgun from a dealer, you go down, buy it, and walk out the same day. And CPL’s are shall issue and Wayne County will mail them to you.

        What Robert Farago is doing is no different than the pathetic gun grabbers.

  17. avatar Smock Puppet, Gadfy, Racist-Sexist Thug, and Bon Vivant All In One Package says:

    Oh, yeah, it’s all safety and security until someone builds RoboCop…

  18. avatar Patriot says:

    Wow, wow,… wow. Obama-man is here to save the day: http://www.freep.com/article/20130926/NEWS01/309260199/white-house-bankruptcy-aid-for-detroit-blight-removal

    He’s going to make Detroit safer people, and erase blight.

  19. avatar In Detroit says:

    I live in downtown Detroit, not the suburbs. My driver’s license says Detroit on it. I’m not disarmed, I received my CPL in Detroit two months ahead of schedule and I know several other responsible Detroiters who carry legally. I wouldn’t live in a state that attempted to abridge my civil, natural and constitutional rights. Michigan isn’t ideal, but it’s not a gun-control state. In fact, the trend has been toward less restriction in recent years.

    Detroiters regularly defend themselves with force. Since the police are so slow to respond in many areas of the city, the justice system usually gives armed self-defenders the benefit of the doubt.

    There are plenty of places around Detroit that are rough, just like any city. But the areas that are being repopulated now are as safe as any large city–I feel a hell of a lot safer here than I would in Chicago.

    Is the government corrupt? Yeah, but there’s a manager now and I’m reserving judgement on him. Are there financial problems? Yep, it’s well known. Is it a lawless wasteland? Nope. But, I guess if you just watch the ruin porn you see in the mainstream media you could get that idea. But that would be like relying on our friends in the media to tell us the truth about guns, and that hasn’t exactly worked out for me.

  20. avatar Rory Carroll says:

    I live and work downtown and this characterization of the city and its attitude on gun ownership is very misleading. I expect more from this site.

    1. avatar Jared says:

      Email Rob and tell him that. I’m extremely dissapointed in him over this.

  21. avatar AntiCitizenOne says:

    I think the huge issue with Detroit (and Michigan in general) is the silly amount of “Gun Free Zones” the concealed carry law has.

    While there’s a lot of CPL permits in Michigan (and Detroit) the problem is that the GFZs can include:

    places that make more than 50% profit off of alcohol (which basically knocks out every restaurant in the state)
    Establishments that can house more than 2,500 people
    college campuses
    casinos

    A bill was introduced last year RIGHT before the Sandy Hook events that would have allowed carry in these areas with additional training and Snyder was just about to sign it when that Newtown wanker went nuts. He vetoed the bill (stupidly enough as Sandy Hook shows the folly of Gun Free Zones).

    Right now that bill is SB213(?) and it won’t budge because Snyder’s gambit is to allow local governments and schools to ban firearms on their own property in exchange for the elimination of all gun free zones.

    Sad, really.

    1. avatar Jared says:

      Snyder was not about to sign SB 59 last year. He was planning on vetoing it because local schools and governments did not have the option to ban guns on their property. This is first hand information. I know this for a fact 100%

      And yes, Robert Farago hasn’t corrected himself because he’s apparently went to the Piers Morgan School of Honesty.

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