How to Disarm a School Shooter Without Shooting

Strangely, the interviewer never asks Antoinette Tuff if she’d have shot potential spree killer Michael Brandon Hill if she’d been armed. Providing I could, I would. Have. Maybe that’s because I’m a lousy at all that Jesus stuff and a pretty good shot (especially at close range). Or maybe because the downside of failure would be so high, whereas the upside of ending the threat ballistically would be so high. Just thinking out loud . . .

comments

  1. avatar Jake says:

    Every grabber argument about other “safety” steps got wiped out in the first 15 seconds of this video.

  2. avatar KMc says:

    If she would have taken him down, a parade in her honor would have been in order. And flying around the country in AFOne with BO, just to show off a bit. Ms. Tuff deserves that as well.

  3. avatar Rokurota says:

    This is the story no major media outlet wants to touch. To them, Jesus is just as “bad” as guns are. I’m thrilled this went down as it did — Ms. Tuff didn’t have to kill Hill (not that she could have) and no one died. She kept her head, even after Hill fired shots in an enclosed space.

    Some of my gun-hating friends are circulating this as “evidence” no one needs a gun. I guess they’ll tolerate the Jesus part if it serves their needs.

    1. avatar arthur says:

      Gun haters are not your “friends”….not mine anyways

    2. avatar Mistereveready says:

      jesus isn’t really anything good, but firearms definitely are. I’ve yet to see a defensive jesus use to stop anything atrocious. Psychology and bullshitting yes, magic man coming down to lay down some literal suppressing fire or convince a crazed killer not to, no.There are many christian anti-gun people and pro gun non christians.

      Woulda gladly traded all the hours wasted in religion classes/church to go to the range and plink, or learn how to make/modify a firearm, and even the general history of them.

      1. avatar anglosaxongamer says:

        Please curb that. There are just as many if not more pro gun christians out there. It does our cause no good by lumping any group together.

        1. avatar Mistereveready says:

          That was the point. A person can not like jesus stuff and still like firearms.

      2. avatar Rokurota says:

        I’m sorry your church failed you, Everready. Not every pastor or teacher answers questions to our liking. Likewise, not every Christian opposes the RKBA. In my church, I’m not sure I can name one.

        1. avatar Kein.trink.wasser@gmail.com says:

          Eh, it’s not that the pastors failed, but they are pushing a bad product. Aye, not every christian supports the right to bear arms, nor does every infidel. But that aside, it’d be much more efficacious if people were taught the appreciation of freedom and the joy/safety of firearms, regardless of what religious stuff they believe or don’t.

      3. avatar MothaLova says:

        Go cry over your misspent life somewhere else.

        1. avatar William Burke says:

          Thank you for impassioned defense of the First and Second Amendments.

        2. avatar MothaLova says:

          William: Neither of those amendments requires me to approve of self-indulgent whining. Every time Christianity is part of a post at TTAG, there are always a few jerks who take the occasion to insult the religion, usually in adolescent and ignorant fashion. I don’t see Christian commenters at TTAG seizing on any pretext to bash non-believers. The disrespect comes from one direction, which of itself is revealing enough.

        3. avatar Mistereveready says:

          Both believers and non sport their opinions on here. Someone commented about jesus and those who don’t like mentioning him, and I replied, and short of one of the admins asking me to leave I doubt I’ll stop posting.

          I don’t dislike religious people, and while I have great disdain for religion/faith I fully support their right to hold such beliefs.

        4. avatar MothaLova says:

          I didn’t ask you to stop posting, I asked you to stop crying over your misspent life. And just because someone mentions Jesus in one context (that is, the gungrabbers’ hypocritical use of a story involving a Christian woman) doesn’t mean you should start ranting about how “Jesus isn’t really anything good” and whining about how you wasted your time in religious classes. Again, I don’t see religious folks here seizing pretexts to bash your unbelief.

      4. avatar elaw555 says:

        He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
        Luke 22:36
        http://bible.us/111/luk.22.36.niv

        Praise be to the Lord my rock,
        who trains my hands for war,
        my fingers for battle.
        Psalm 144:1
        http://bible.us/111/psa.144.1.niv

    3. avatar johnnyappleseed says:

      and I’ve heard of people walking across the country. does that mean automobiles aren’t needed?

    4. avatar Rokurota says:

      Here’s CNN’s account, sanitized of all Tuff’s references to Christ. That should make you all happy.

      http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/21/us/georgia-school-gunshots/?hpt=hp_bn1

      1. avatar Rev. Maurice Pompitous says:

        Special thanks to CNN for protecting us from harmful religious references.

        And while we’re at it, let’s all give thanks to the single cell microbe that evolved into a species that produced a calm, rational person like ms. Tuff with the correct electrical impulses in her brain firing at the right time and place to prevent tragedy.

        1. avatar MothaLova says:

          +1. Outstanding.

  4. avatar SAS 2008 says:

    She obviously did a couple things right when it comes to dealing with a suicidal person or a hostage negotiation.

    1 – don’t talk down to the person, don’t be condescending
    2 – give them something they want

    Kudos to her for how she talked to him.

    1. avatar MothaLova says:

      Good points.

  5. avatar BLAMMO says:

    How long will it be before this anecdote becomes a new media myth. “Oh, you can just talk someone out of shooting up a school / shopping mall / movie theater /restaurant.”

    Kind of like “If you have a gun, you’re more likely to have it taken away and used on YOU!!”

    That said, the woman has real courage. Good for her.

    1. avatar SD3 says:

      She does have a lot of courage, and “good for her”. This is likely attempted with a lot of active shooters. You just don’t hear about it, because most of the time the “brave soul” ends up murdered like every other unarmed victim.

    2. avatar Bruce says:

      If you can talk all shooters down, then police don’t need guns.

      1. avatar Mistereveready says:

        Aye. If talking was always an option instead of an unlikely luxury, we’d have almost no need for weapons. Sadly humans, like most other animals on this planet have a violent streak that can’t always be quelled by a gift for gab. Is also a bit difficult to talk politely over the sound of gunshots and the inevitable bout of severe tinnitus, the test pattern sound that can forever deprive a person a moment of silence.

    3. avatar William Burke says:

      Assuming everyone is Ms. Tuff, of course. Because we are all, like, equal. And stuff.

  6. avatar Chas says:

    What this woman was able to do is a rare talent. But what if the shooter happened to encounter someone who didn’t have that talent.

    Stuff like this works…. until it doesn’t.

    1. avatar styrgwillidar says:

      It was a fortunate circumstance– she chose (or was forced into by a lack of options) the right approach for that shooter. Another shooter with different motives and a different mindset may have acted entirely differently. I doubt this would have worked at Sandy Hook or Colombine or Virginia Tech.

      1. avatar Howdy says:

        During Columbine, it was reported, one of the shooters gave a girl a choice, renounce your religion or die. She wouldn’t and they killed her.

        I don’t discussion was a viable option with any part of Columbine.

        Ms. Tuff, thank you for your courage.

        1. avatar Mistereveready says:

          Source please? All i’ve been able to find was various accounts that she may or may not have been asked if she believed in a god before she was offed. Not like it did her any good though.

        2. avatar karlb says:

          Urban Legend.

        3. avatar Lucas D. says:

          Sadly, that’s a myth. Cassie Bernall was never asked that question, and the girl who was asked and said yes survived.

        4. avatar Nordic says:

          Urban Legend

    2. avatar William Burke says:

      How DARE you suggest that everyone doesn’t have equalistic abilities? Big Brother loves me, this I know; Obama told me so!!

  7. avatar Greg M says:

    The libertard news is already presenting this as proof that the statement of only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun is wrong.

    1. avatar Nordic says:

      Seems accurate to me.

      “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”

      Bad guy had a gun. Tuff didn’t. She stopped him. LaPierre was indeed wrong.

      Or is that logic not sound?

      1. avatar MothaLova says:

        Your logic is sound. The mistake is with those who claim that the “only” way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun. More accurately, it is the most common way or the most likely way or the most effective way. Once the claim is rephrase accurately, the unexpected success of this woman in stopping a criminal does not stand in opposition.

        1. avatar CarlosT says:

          So add “determined” in front of “bad guy” and the point stands. I suppose it’s theoretically possible, but do people seriously think a “come to Jesus” approach would have worked on Adam Lanza? And if that’s the one and only plan, all you’ve succeeded in doing is providing a few seconds delay, if that.

      2. avatar Greg M says:

        Well looks like we have the solution to all violence. Lets send you into the ghettos of Chicago and LA and you can talk them into not killing each other. It will either cut down on the “gun violence” or the libertard population. Win win situation.

  8. avatar Nathanael says:

    Bravo for her. Well done. She deserves all the accolades coming her way.

    However, this isn’t representative of all such situations. This guy wasn’t committed to carrying out a horrible mass murder and could be talked down, but there are plenty of examples where a shooter wasn’t going to stop to talk. The problem is that some people are determined to have only one tool, and thus to be subject to the well known “everything starts to look like a nail” delusion. If all you have is talking, everything is going to look like a situation to be talked through (and if talking doesn’t work, you’ll have to deny that anything else would have). Some guns folks fall into a similar trap, where they talk as though they’re eager to pull their gun to resolve a problem (likely some internet tough guy syndrome here). The wise person will want all the tools they can reasonably have, and know when and how to use each.

    1. avatar AJ says:

      “This guy wasn’t committed to carrying out a horrible mass murder and could be talked down”

      Exactly!! Everyone seems to be missing the boat here – if the guy wanted to kill a bunch of kids he would have. A murdered bent n murder doesn’t calmly walk into the office and say “Hey, go ahead and call the local news for me would ya?” They tend to just get on with the murdering and let shit work itself out.

  9. avatar imrambi says:

    Listening to this lady, big kudos to her.

    From her impression that she gives, the guy was on the fence. This is a rare case where the criminal was not convinced of what he wanted to do. Normally they don’t take that amount of time before they start doing things.

    The guy also wanted affirmation. It seems that once he was told he was good, his entire mannerism change.

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      This is PROOF, man! This is proof that everyone secretly wants to be “reasonable” and “do the right thing”. I learned that from one of Spike Lee’s bodyguards.

  10. avatar Jrflesch says:

    I’m all about the Jesus part… Until they start swinging a gun in my face… Then Jesus can sort him out 🙂

  11. avatar Roscoe says:

    If you can avoid shooting someone under almost all circumstances, you should.

    If Tuff was armed and chose not to shoot for whatever reason, I would not armchair quarterback her decision; she was there and only she can make that assessment and decision.

    She wasn’t armed, so the issue never comes up.

    Antoinette Tuff kept her cool and worked the threat; for that she deserves great praise.

    1. +1. My thoughts exactly.

    2. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

      Not me. I’d armchair the hell out of that decision. In our household, we’ve played out numerous scenarios and developed our own rules of engagement within the law. Our first resort tools are awareness, avoidance and de-escalation, too.

      However, once the bad guy fires a gun, especially at the police (which reflects a predisposition to a fatal outcome) or in a spree-type setting (as opposed to a simple robbery), then return fire from us is guaranteed. The time for hoping, praying and chit chat is over. Continued reliance on those meager measures by an armed defender facing demonstrated criminal lethal action is not only naive, but reckless and cowardly.

  12. avatar MothaLova says:

    Robert – Did I read that right, that you have shot someone (“Providing I could, I would. Have.”)? Admittedly, I haven’t been reading TTAG for more than a year, so perhaps I missed a post about this.

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      There are adult remedial reading classes nearby, probably in your own community. RIF!

      1. avatar Lucas D. says:

        Unfortunately, there aren’t any classes at the Learning Annex on how to be genuinely funny instead of just a sarcastic prick.

  13. avatar mediocrates says:

    well done, Antoinette Tuff… if homeboy wanted to die, he screwed that up pretty bad too….

  14. avatar Ralph says:

    Tuff indeed. The woman has a pair of solid brass ba — uh, make that solid brass ovaries. Most people would not have the sand or the presence of mind to talk down an armed cheeseball the way she did.

  15. avatar RLC2 says:

    Wonderful brave woman. God bless her for her compassion.

    From what little I know of hostage negotiation she did all the right things-
    listen, find common ground, de-escalate.

    But like others have said, her instinct and background to empathize as a citizen caught up in this for the first time, is probably more uncommon than not-

    how many teachers in school shootings have tried to talk down the crazy kid, to no avail? We’ll never know in some cases.
    Better to be armed as plan B if it looks like the crazy person is not gonna listen.

  16. avatar Solitude says:

    In my very unprofessional opinion, I don’t think the guy ever intended to shoot any children. He chose the school to draw in the police, and was more intent on suicide than homicide. I could be wrong given his mental instability.

    Do electronic door locks really prevent unwanted entry? First, most (almost all) parents don’t have the situational awareness, or even the commonsense, to ensure that someone isn’t following behind them. I know I always check when I’m approaching the doors at my son’s school. And, unless I see a child in tow, and as rude as it may seem, I don’t hold the door for anyone.

    Regardless, the front office will typically buzz in just about anyone. In order for such a system to have any remote possibility of working each person needing entry would need an ID to designate their authorization. Even then, there is still the risk of someone unauthorized catching the door before it closes. Or, someone holding the door open for the person behind them without ensuring authorization.

    A person really intent on gaining access would just force their way in. Electronic door locks are such a false sense of security.

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      I have the same exact feeling about my grandson’s school. “Who’s there?”

      “Candygram!”

  17. “potential spree killer Michael Brandon Hill” didn’t seem to actually want to shoot anybody. From what I understand he specifically said he wasn’t out to get any children, he wanted the police, and he also apparently stated he was mentally unstable. Apparently being off his drugs. IMO it was a cry for help, and maybe attention. Hopefully he is getting more help than attention.

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      Help is, after all, a form of attention, isn’t it?

    2. avatar anon says:

      Ding Ding Ding brother he just wanted to make the news. Get 5mins of fame and fade away into history. Thats all this is. Waste of time effort money and resources.

  18. avatar Lance says:

    Thats a woman I want working at my school and ARMED too.

  19. avatar Layne says:

    She’s a couragous woman for sure. Good for her. But crazy people are crazy. It’s like trying to reason with a bull or a bear or a shark. Sometimes it works. Usually not for too long. She says to give the credit to God, it wasn’t her. Whether you believe in God or not you have to agree with the second part of that. Sure, she did great by not making it worse, but she certainly didn’t just invent the magic words that disarm all spree killers. Showing up with unloaded magazines says something about his level of commitment I think. Crazy people are crazy and when they become dangerous the only thing that’s likely to work every time is incapacitating them.

  20. avatar KCK says:

    In the GFZ, she used what was available.
    For this individual, her tools got her by.
    Problem is, this will be taken as PROOF that it will be enough for most scenarios.
    Affirmation of GFZ.
    And of course the approaching cop’s guns don’t count in a GFZ.

  21. avatar A. Nuran says:

    That shows mad people skills and the ability to work under extreme pressure. I wish I were half as competent

  22. avatar PavePusher says:

    I’ve noted on several websites that the result may likely have been far different if there hadn’t been police waiting to shoot the bastard.

  23. avatar Will says:

    Arguing any religion as part of a pro or anti gun grouping is just plain stupid because it detracts and divides. If you honestly look closely you’ll find religious, agnostic, and atheist on both sides of the argument.

    From what I hear in the video, and from what I’ve heard elsewhere… he may have been ready and willing to kill and was about to start… yet he didn’t seem THAT committed to the action of murdering kids and adults, OR he would have opened fire on her, and then proceeded to eradicate everyone else he could instead of getting into a conversation with her. You can blame it on someone desperately reaching out for help at the last minute, or you can say God had a part in it. Your choice. Just practice some tolerance for the other view even if you choose to think its garbage.

    (NOW will this stupid thing not redirect my reply to a comment into a reply to the blog post??? Apparently not.)

  24. avatar Will says:

    Okay… since replies to comments seem to be redirecting to reply to blog post…. and to further what I said above…

    This guy wasn’t THAT committed to murder-suicide. Ms Tuff was the right person, apparently, for this situation. She says it wasn’t her, it was all God… even if you don’t want to believe this (for whatever reason. BTW: Religion is for the birds…. Christianity is supposed to be about relationship between God and man, not a huge list of dos and donts with formula rituals mixed in. Jesus got on the Jewish religious leaders of his time for piling rule upon rule and mandating it on the Jewish people.) she WAS the right person for THIS instance. Now, Sandy Hook? Well, short of God actively interfering, no human would have stopped it short of being armed and fighting back.

    Would Ms Tuff, had she been armed, have shot this guy? Considering his actions, I don’t think she would have… if it had been the actions that took place at Sandy Hook? I would hope she would have done what she had to to stop it (as in shoot him dead). We’ll never really know for this case as it wasn’t a case where the guy did go on a truly deadly rampage… Remember ZERO casualties.

    1. avatar anon says:

      Adam Lanza was a supper soldier though he killed either 26 or 28 people in 5 minutes depending on your favorite news aganecy; with a slide fire stock, and all targets moving at different rates of speeds and heights etc. Not even the T2 could have stopped Adam Lanza no matter how armed he was. He shot through bullet proof glass for god sakes with a 223 and didn’t accidentally frag himslef. In GA this guy got in like the rest of the people who enter the school. Adam Lanza is the exception to the rule……And just about every rule to shooting mind you. Nothing could have stopped Lanza.

  25. avatar anon says:

    I am so glad that a black woman can get on TV and not wear a hair hat (wig), and talk semi decently without her butt hanging out. Not that she is the shining light of the black female community, but shell do….for now. She could have ended this very early on if she had a weapon. These psychotropic drugs are destroying our populations mental capacity. Bet she will go get on Anti Psychotics now to erase the visions of the clips she has.

    1. avatar MothaLova says:

      Another gungrabbing troll

Write a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

button to share on facebook
button to tweet
button to share via email