NJ Governor Chris Christie (courtesy time.com)

“Gov. Chris Christie today signed 10 bills concerning gun ownership, but left on his desk five other gun control measures — including the most controversial ones,” nj.com reports. The Garden State Governor didn’t sign the bill banning 50-caliber rifles or the “kitchen sink” firearms ID card bill (S2723). But he did put his John Hancock on the following measures . . .

• Upgrade the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm from a second- or third-degree offense to a first-degree crime. Previously, unlawful possession of machine guns, handguns and assault firearms had been a second-degree crime and a third-degree crime in the case of rifles and shotguns. The bill would also increase mandatory minimum sentences for such offenses by six months. (S2804)

• Make the crime of firearms trafficking subject to the No Early Release Act, which requires offenders to serve at least 85 percent of their terms. The bill also requires authorities to seize cars used to smuggle weapons into New Jersey and increases penalties on dealers who knowingly sell guns to customers disqualified from possessing them, requiring them to serve at least 18 months in prison. (S2719)

• Allow authorities to impound cars if an occupant illegally possesses a weapon. The bill also allows authorities to impound cars used in cases of prostitution and buying or selling illegal drugs. (S2468)

• Increase penalties for those who unlawfully sell or give a gun to an underage person from a third- to second-degree crime with a minimum mandatory prison sentence of five years. (S1279) . . .

Others bills Christie signed today would give people a 180-day window to get rid of certain illegal guns (A3796); make law a state regulation exempting firearm owner information from the state’s Open Public Records Act (A3788) and clarify that the total number of gun permits in a town are public record (S2720); require submission of mental health records to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (A3717); and create a study commission on violence (S2430).

There’s a lot to not like about the new New Jersey gun control laws. The scariest of them all: A3687. The new law disqualifies people on the FBI’s Terrorist Watch List from owning guns. Which is . . . who? You? Sorry, secret. Here’s the relevant bit from the FBI’s FAQ:

Can I find out if I am in the TSDB?

The TSC [Terrorist Screening Center] cannot reveal whether a particular person is in the TSDB [Terrorist Screening Database]. The TSDB remains an effective tool in the government’s counterterrorism efforts because its contents are not disclosed. If TSC revealed who was in the TSDB, terrorist organizations would be able to circumvent the purpose of the terrorist watchlist by determining in advance which of their members are likely to be questioned or detained.

Once again, it’s critical to note that the criteria for getting onto the FBI’s Terrorist Watch List are secret. The process for getting off the list is uncodified. This is how they deal with that.

Filing a Redress Inquiry

The TSC does not accept redress inquiries directly from the public. Instead, members of the public should contact the relevant screening agency with their questions or concerns about screening. The screening agency is in the best position to identify and resolve issues related to that agency’s screening process.

The FBI Terrorist Watch List is riddled with errors, as the National Shooting Sports Foundation reminds us:

The watch list, which contained more than 1.1 million identities, including aliases, as of the end of 2008, is fraught with errors.

A 2009 Department of Justice audit of the terrorist watch list nominating process found that several major problems with the nomination practices including names not added that should have been, former subjects of closed investigations that were supposed to have been removed years ago, and deceased individuals. In 72 percent of the cases reviewed, the individuals were not removed “in a timely manner.”

The FBI may nominate individuals to the watch list that aren’t the subject of a terrorist investigation. More than 62,000 watch list records were created through this process. The audit found “the controls over these types of nominations to be weak or nonexistent.”

Here’s the problem: what if one or more of Uncle Sam’s alphabet agencies decides to put a whole class of people onto the Terrorist Watch List? Like, I dunno, members of the NRA. Or anyone who owns a 50-caliber rifle. Or someone who wanted to secure tax-exempt status for a conservative leaning lobby group. What then?

If the listee–who  doesn’t even know they’re on the List—lives in New Jersey, the State Police SWAT team can now pay a midnight, no-knock visit to make sure the suspected terrorist has surrendered their firearms (having discovered their status telepathically). How great is that?

If you think about it, the new law makes New Jersey Uncle Sam’s bitch, as the state police are swooping on folks ID’ed by the feds. Same as it ever was. Only worse. That said, the bill helps Christie’s presidential aspirations; he will no doubt paint this new law as proof that he’s tough on terrorism. Truth be told, Christie is no friend of ours. But I guess you knew that already.

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99 Responses to BREAKING: NJ Bans Guns for Residents on FBI Terrorist Watch List

    • McCarthyism 2.0 – lets just assume everyone who isn’t a Fed is a potential terrorist, then we can roll the U.S. Census Board into the DHS, and no one can have a gun! Problem solved!

      • McCarthy was not doing what you imply, he was simply investigating the level of Communist Infiltration into highly sensitive areas of the US Govt. Unlike today it was then still illegal to be a Communist in a public service job.
        The Soviet Verona Code, which had been broken at around the same time, validated all his claims but the US Govt let him be destroyed rather than give up their secrets.
        BTW this was how the Soviets built an A Bomb with in 4 years of the US’s first test detonation

        • Was? WAS? State has been filled with commie pinkos/Marxists since the 19th Century. And dang sure still is.

    • 1.1 million people on the terror watch list
      330 million people in the United states.

      That’s 1 person on the terror watch list for every 330 people.
      Next time you go to a baseball game, know that 150 people in the stadium are on the list.
      Actually, i guess the 1.1 million is a worldwide figure, but who knows? Can’t see the list.

      • Barry took it to whole new levels. Just because Dumbya et al. were behind the unPatriot Act the first time doesn’t give the current jug head a pass. Hell, Truman started the NSA.

    • Have no fear, the state Fusion Centers allow the Feds to tell the State PD what ever they want them to know, (it’s for The Children)

  1. I’m confused. If the terrorist watch list is a federal secret, how is New Jersey supposed to find out who’s on it?

    Then of course there is the obvious due process issue–elimination of a right without a hearing and, even more importantly, without even a right to a hearing. I cannot see how even a NJ federal court will conclude that this passes constitutional muster. How Christy can sign it without consideration of this issue is hard to comprehend; I suspect that he is relying on the crowd pleasing aspects of this bill for low information voters of a democratic bent.

    • Yep; Christie is simply following the cheese trail to accumulate political capital.

      And we can all see how mech he likes cheese!

    • it could be a good thing. Being denied your right by being on the list will produce the court case needed to determine the list is unconsitutional.

      • Guns. The New Drug. Possession of an illegal firearm, like possession of illegal drugs–20 yrs, see you in 10 (with good behavior).

        That reminds me–if you happen to be passing through NJ with your otherwise legal firearms but get stopped by the Gestapo, you may never have a chance to leave. Inherit the old man’s unregistered war trophy? Go directly to jail. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200. (Unless you play the lotto with your meager prison earnings.)

  2. NJ person reporting in. Christie has a conditional veto here in NJ, where he can basically rewrite the legislation the anti’s wrote. The expectation is that hes gonna veto the gun banning bills and conditionally veto the big drivers license permit thing to give some stuff to us like maybe making our permits also good for carrying, or getting rid of the law that gets us arrested for having a gun anywhere other than your house or the range. Something. Fucking anything. He aint getting away with not getting something for us in this.

  3. Krusty has done some good things in NJ, but his anti creds, dating back to his days as US Attorney, really put me off. I can’t support him for national office. Plus his going after Paul last week irritated me.

  4. I feel fairly certain that the most preposterous of these bills Re the terror watch list is a short legal challenge from being ruled unconstitutional. The reasons are many fold but since it’s arbitrary, secret and doesn’t follow due process it’s pretty well a no go.

    The bigger story here isn’t the screwing NJ is taking but the likelihood of Christie entering the GOP primary as a presidential contender. I think this indicates he either has no such intent or has been in NJ so long that he’s out of touch since he is now completely unelectable. (Narrow margins plus losing the base on the 2a equals no oval office for him). Now all we (conservatives) can do is pray he either stays out of the race all together or at least doesn’t win the primary. In fact the biggest threat to GOPs likely bid to retake the white house is now this RINO. They really ought to make him stop using the appellation ‘Republican’.

    • Honestly I won’t even vote for him as Governor again. He thinks this is buying him Democrat votes, but I think every D he gains, he has lost at least one R.

      If we’re going to have a RINO throwing us under the bus, we may as well elect a Democrat but make the point that if you mess with the 2A you WILL lose your job.

      • He’s already locked on the R ticket for NJ, against Buono. My vote will either be a write in, or I’ll hold my nose and pull the D just to ensure he loses because of this.

        (this was meant as a response to Mark N, but mobile comments are a PITA)

    • Just wait–he’ll run as a democrat! It is pretty obvious that republican voters could not forgive Romney’s flip flopping on gun rights–and Krusty here is far beyond that.

  5. I don’t like the guy, but at least he signed Patrick’s Law, increasing the penalties for animal cruelty. Props for that at least. He’s still a total douche on 2A issues. I’m glad I don’t live in NJ.

    • Thank goodness. Wasn’t that a hell of a story? I picked it up the day after they found him. What a great looking dog!!

      • I agree! Every state needs to adopt such laws. I hope we do in Florida. It seems like every day I hear another story about some horrible person doing unspeakable things to animals (mostly pit bulls).

      • Your point? Hitler was also supposedly a very pleasant person to be around, a good boss to his staff and he loved children. My wife is the same way. Does that make her like Hitler too? How about you read the story behind Patrick’s law before making asinine comments like that? Comparing anyone you don’t like to Hitler is passé and immediately detracts from any valid argument you might be making.

  6. So if you’re part of a terrorist organization operating in the US, and you want to see if you’re in the database, here’s what to do:

    Go to NJ
    Attempt to buy a firearm
    If you pass
        You are not on the list
    Else
        Go to PA
        Attempt to buy a firearm
        If you pass
            You are on the list
        Else
            Your status is unknown

  7. The trafficking concept is scary given that Bloomer and similar idiots think anyone traveling interstate with a Glock is trafficking. As far as the FBI list, it goes along with the NSA’s secret court, secret warrants, secret jails and secret laws.

  8. “Here’s the problem: what if one or more of Uncle Sam’s alphabet agencies decides to put a whole class of people onto the Terrorist Watch List? Like, I dunno, members of the NRA. Or anyone who owns a 50-caliber rifle. Or someone who wanted to secure tax-exempt status for a conservative leaning lobby group. What then?”

    How about everyone on the NFA registry?

  9. I don’t understand how anyone in government can “Allow authorities to impound cars” for anything? I always thought you had to be proven guilty before you could punish them. I’ve been wondering about this for years.

    • Asset Forfeiture. Look it up. It’s how they get Christmas bonuses, and it helps finance the SWAT machine.

      • Tell it TP! Asset forfeitures are a HUGE part of what’s wrong with lawenforcement. It’s quasi-legalized stealing.

        • It IS legalized stealing. In a criminal court, the State has to prove that you are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But forfeiture is a CIVIL proceeding, and it is basically incumbent on the owner of property to demonstrate that his property was NOT illegally obtained, or not used in the commission of a crime. Stacked deck.

        • Untaxed liquor brought in from overseas and confiscated has long been used to provide the booze for the Customs Bureau Christmas parties.

  10. Does this mean that there will be more shoot-outs at traffic stops because of the increased penalties and/or possible confiscation of vehicles and guns? Looks to be more of an increased danger for the cops then they usually face……….

  11. Well at least it’s the FBI terrorist watch list and not the NSA terrorist watch list because we’re all on that one.

    Just another nail in the coffin of Christie’s presidential aspirations.

    • The FBI agents at NSA and JTTF feed the stuff to FBI HQ. It’s as simple as me walking away from my PC for a minute and the guy in the next cube looking at my screen. That’s your “oversight” and “safeguards/controls.”

      • I don’t doubt that the various agencies are sharing information, but while the “official” FBI terrorist watch list consists of 10% potential terrorists and 90% innocent civilians, the vast majority of us are not on the list. The NSA on the other hand is watching every one of us.

        • The problem is that the NSA IS sharing its info–legally obtained for one purpose–with other agencies such as the FBI and the DEA, for which agencies the evidence is NOT legally obtained and NOT admissible in court–but it is used to set up a circumstance (e.g. an apparent lawful traffic stop) where “legally” obtained evidence is obtained. This is a direct violation of the Fourth Amendment, suspected for years, but until recently (Snowden) unprovable. A number of us up here in Northern California were highly suspicious when the drug patrols of the CHP were regularly intercepting narcotics traffickers, pulling them over for one “suspicion” or another, and then somehow getting a consent to a search from the (non-English Speaking) drug couriers. After a court case (unsuccessfully) sought to prove illegal conduct by the CHP, there was a sudden drop in interceptions. Wonder why?

        • Mark, I’m not disputing the illegality of the information sharing. I’m just merely making the point that as to how this effects Joe New Jerseyian. Being watched by the NSA will not get your constitutional rights, other than the 4th amendment, denied. Being on the FBI list will get your 2nd amendment rights denied as well.

          As far as the 4th amendment abuses go, I believe there are a lot of convicted felons in prison now that will have their convictions overturned by this. You can not lie to the court, whether you’re a LEO or prosecutor. You can not withhold evidence from the defense.

        • Which is why I think punks like Peter King, Feinstien, Maxine Waters, L. Graham, Chambiss, Holder, Juan McCain, Gen Alexander, Gen Haig, and Clapper, et al. that back the NSA should be water boarded in stale beer and piss to find out what the know, why, what is in for them etc.

  12. … The bill also allows authorities to impound cars…

    These fuckers love stealing people’s cars.

    Just as bad? Countless assholes on gun forums who don’t see the problem with this. So if the people who are supposed to support liberty don’t get it, it’s a wrap.

    • They don’t have a problem with it they get stopped for something minor and end up with a paperwork issue or a cop that doesn’t fully understand gun laws. So they impound their car and can’t get it back.

  13. If I lived in NJ (heaven forbid!), I’d be looking to rent a storage unit in PA and move most of my firearms there. Has anyone thought of creating a storage facility that caters to persecuted patriots in NJ, NY, CA, etc?

  14. Do you guys not pay attention to the news?

    Christy is running as a Democrat in the next election.

    Makes total sense.

    The money quote? When Rand Paul said he was the “king of bacon”, Christy reflected: “it really hurt my feelings!”

  15. Some of these bills (increasing penalties for things that are clearly illegal and wrong) seem good. Others – Terror Watch List mainly – seem awful.

  16. This is like the result of a contest to come up with a law to violate as much of the Bill of Rights as possible in a single law. The Second, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Eighth are definitely being violated. There are half decent arguments for it running afoul of the Ninth and Tenth as well.

    • You’re onto something Carlos, it’s really as if a team of lawyers brainstormed a piece of legislation guaranteed not to pass constitutional muster as some sort of thought experiment. If I didn’t already know better I’d think Christie was masterminding a plan to get this shut down by the courts while only subjecting NJ to it before other states have a chance to enact.

      It’s as if the slave states are getting desperate to win the ‘let’s violate our residents civil rights’ contest they’re having with each other and as a result are committing a lot of fouls.

  17. Due process? What’s that?

    This law will be subject to a court challenge. Being put on the “watch list” isn’t subject to appeal, has no set process, those put on the list have no opportunity to confront their accusers, etc.

    Christie, as a lawyer, should know some of these things. This is yet more evidence that law, as a profession, is a charade. A lawyer in office signing a law like this should lose their law license and bar #.

    • It was a pretty good warning sign when Christie called libertarians’ concerns about 4th amendment violations “esoteric.”

      • DG, you’re right, for a lawyer to do something like this would seem to be an ethics violation.

        BeninMA: for people like Christie the 4th amendment and the constitution in general are esoteric.

    • I just threw up a little. Christie couldn’t win the GOP primary unless an awful lot of dems vote in it. He has no base and nothing to offer any conservative at all. The worst case scenario is that he does somehow slither into the candidacy since much like with another RINO, McCain those of us who actually have, you know, values and stuff, will stay home.

  18. Obama should be asked if he will agree to share information with New Jersey that will be used to strip Americans of their Constitutional rights without due process. Today we’re talking about the second amendment, but the precedent would be set for the others as well.

    Also, I wonder if this will cause some conservatives to rethink their support for other anti-terrrorism legislation that might sound good, but actually violates basic Constitutional liberties.

  19. One has to wonder why guys like Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn, Father Fleiger, Rashid Khalidi, Barry Soetory, Eric with-Holder, Van Jones etc. weren’t already on the Terror Watch list in 2008.

  20. Make the crime of firearms trafficking subject to the No Early Release Act, which requires offenders to serve at least 85 percent of their terms. The bill also requires authorities to seize cars used to smuggle weapons into New Jersey and increases penalties on dealers who knowingly sell guns to customers disqualified from possessing them, requiring them to serve at least 18 months in prison. (S2719)

    Be careful who you “privately” sell your gun to.

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