courtesy poconorecord.com

Not much is known right now, but reports indicate that two people were killed on the scene, one at the hospital, and four were injured at a town supervisors’ meeting in Saylorsburg, Pennsylvania, about 75 miles north of Philadelphia. The perpetrator is reported to be in custody after opening fire around 7:30 PM eastern. CNN had the original details (what little there were), and according to some in the comments section of this article the perpetrator used a “scoped pistol” to shoot through the wall of the building. The Pocono Record has a first person account of the event . . .

All I saw was the holes go through the hall.

I saw smoke and plaster flying out, blowing out through the walls.

I ran out after the first round of shooting. I dropped to the floor. That’s what everyone did.

It was automatic, like a string of firecrackers. That’s what everyone said.

Then it stopped and I crawled out the side door.

I was the only person who crawled out. Everyone got behind a table. Some of the supervisors were over on the side throwing up.

A woman ran to the door and opened it and he was standing there.

A man pushed her aside and was shot.

People were shot inside the room.

(The shooter) went back out to his car. The parking lot was adjacent to the building. He brought another weapon back to the building.

(West End Open Space Commission Executive Director ) Bernie Kozen was there tending to the man and he (the shooter) didn’t see them. Bernie bearhugged him and took him down. He shot (the shooter) with his own gun.


Reports are indicating that the suspected shooter, an older white man, had longstanding issues with the local city government. According to the same source, the suspect was in trouble with the city for running a junkyard on his property, building without a proper permit, and collecting fecal matter in buckets.

“If I lose this property, I have nowhere else to go,” Newell told the Pocono Record in June.

“What they’re doing to me, what they’ve been doing to me for so long, it’s wrong.”

More details as they become available.

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129 Responses to BREAKING: Three Killed, Three Wounded at PA Town Meeting

      • Actually, this might be even worse. They tried to use the murdered children to gain public support for their gun control but this guy actually attacked his local government. Will politicians care about what the people think if they consider their own lives at risk?

    • Everybody’s a white guy or gal in Saylorsburg. It’s not Reading, and sure as hvll not Philly. There have been a number of shootings in Philadelphia, but they don’t get the Saylorsburg treatment. I’m going to suggest that it’s like the OK Corral: It’s easy to imagine a gunfight in a remote town involving a few people. It grabs the imagination, like a unique TV episode. Another three or six for forty-two urban gang shootings? They’re mass-produced, and therefore don’t engage the imagination.

      More people died from medical malpractice YESTERDAY in Philly than died in Saylorsburg. I can say that confidently without even checking. Mostly very old or poor people.

    • If he’s not white, we’ll just *make* him white. And if he’s a democrat, we smiply ignore it. If a republican, we’ll repeat that detail 50,000 times a day.

    • Ironically, you have to dig to even find this story on CNN today. Apparently, they have lost interest very quickly.

  1. sounds interesting:
    WBRE reports that a gunman carrying a pistol with a scope shot through a wall of the building, killing two people and injuring four others. WBRE also reports that the gunman was injured as well.

  2. TO: Anyone
    RE: Okay….

    ….what is the perp’s political affiliation?

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [The Truth will out….if anyone cares to look at it….]

      • Statistically speaking, it is not. Dems were sympathetic to the Boston Bomber and Maj. Nadal Hassan. In fact, Barry et al. referred to it as “work place violence” even though Hassan himself contradicted that.

        • No one was sympathetic to the Boston Bomber. Where do you get your information, Blue? What Nazi propaganda do you subscribe to, and why do you believe it? Wake up.

        • Actually there is cult growing up around him populated by Democratic Underground/Daily Kos types, truthers and other fruitcakes.

  3. I once lived not far from this township. It is more or less in the Amish area where “Witness” was filmed. General things to know: Plenty of hunters, small towns, relatively close together by West-coast standards.

    So the obvious conclusion: Irritated Amish goes off the deep end. Well, not really. Just adding color commentary.

  4. While details are short, we have “pistol with a scope.” I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it’s not white on black. Though it may still be early. Wonder how long it is before we get to “assault weapon.”

    • Its about 50 miles south of where I live. Unfortunately, this area ( and most of pa) is politically corrupt…look up the kids for cash scandal or Greg Skrepenak.

      • The final slap in the face of the kids for cash is those m-fers (the judges) were sent to country clubs to do their time. They sentenced the kids to harder time. What they did destroyed more lives than a dozen mass shootings. One young man was so messed up he committed suicide shortly after his release, at the age of 17.

  5. Hmmm..last line in Pocono Record story says shooter was shot with his own pistol ending the incident.

  6. We in the gun/civil right community have ONE *critical* question about the shooter:

    WHAT MEDS HAS HE BEEN TAKING ???

    I am getting really tired of the Free Pass big pharma gets in nut-job shootings……

    • Im sorry but you sound as crazy as Jenny McCarthy blaming vaccines for autism when you blame prescription drugs for mass shootings…

    • Maybe he stopped taking his meds, or never got any in the first place? Either of those scenarios seems more likely than his meds causing him to go off the deep end…

      • “Maybe he stopped taking his meds, or never got any in the first place? Either of those scenarios seems more likely than his meds causing him to go off the deep end…”

        The world is much riskier place since the advent of SSRI medications. Some of the major risk factors are: starting, stopping, changing meds, changing dosage, adding a med and talking it too long. See:

        http://www.ssristories.com/index.php

        • Far more people are helped than harmed with antidepressants. You’re basically calling for a pharmaceutical assault weapon ban.

        • “Far more people are helped than harmed with antidepressants.”

          That is possible. They are probably appropriate for millions of people — but not 10’s of millions. These drugs are overused — and some of the side effects are visible in violent events. Especially homicide/suicide. The NATURE of “lone nut” shooter violence has clearly changed.

          “You’re basically calling for a pharmaceutical assault weapon ban.”

          No ban. Different media coverage. The focus is 100% on a The Gun and rarely critical factors like meds. Read some prescribing info for Paxil, Zoloft, etc. Scary.

        • let’s do some quick math here –

          Tens of millions of people on various SSRIs, SNRIs, tri-cyclics, and many other brain-chemistry altering medications.

          Maybe a dozen crackpots a year go on killing sprees.

          Even with perfect correlation, you’re talking about a literal one-in-a-million occurrence.

          Don’t be like the anti-gun folks. Stop blaming inanimate objects for the failings of meatbags.

          And beware anti-anything sites that have a bias like ssristories. That’s quite literally the only link anyone ever gives about antidepressants, so I have to suspect it’s someone with an axe to grind.

    • Maybe he got fed up with idiotic zoning laws and requirements for permits for a person to build on their own property.

  7. “They are the only township in Monroe County that hasn’t had a tax increase in many, many years,” she said.

    Well, there’s your problem – plenty of money out there, yet those darn supervisors won’t go get it. Somebody wants their township funded phone, or something.

    I lived in that part of the world. Shooter is lucky not to be swiss cheese. The local cops – you’re not “local” until the 3rd generation – do not mess around with malice, and can pretty much tell the difference between that and casual hell raising. More relevant, the broader “Pocono” area has become both a supplyroute and incidental market for organized drug distribution. Back in the day it was locals growing and selling locally, without a lot of malice.

    Nowadays there’s satellite gang activity from Philadelphia, NYC and North Jersey. When my mom hit the emergency room about 18 months ago, it was full of the aftermath of mayhem, mostly on people sporting affiliation and rank on their clothes or skin. Back in the day you’d see mostly injuries from work accidents, or a spectrum of car mishaps, most not severe.

    • Such an accurate description. Once heavily populated by central European coal and steel workers. Those jobs are largely gone. It is now the favored place for drug gangs to go when they can’t take the heat in NYC, Newark, and such. Wilkes-Barre can’t afford cops. Reading is a mess.

      • Such an accurate description.

        Well, comes from seeing it first hand. Of course, my low-information first guess at *this particular* incident was completely wrong. Plenty of other incidents don’t make the news.

      • I’d love to see them try that actually. It’d fail spectacularly and has the potential to bring in all the hunters in from the sidelines. “They’d never touch our hunting guns” has been, after all, their mindset.

  8. Just updated

    Three people are now confirmed dead, according to Monroe County Coroner Bob Allen. And at least three are in critical condition following the shooting at tonight’s Ross Township municipal meeting.

    Two men died at the scene and one who was helicoptered out later died.

  9. Hey I was just looking at rental houses in that town. No this won’t affect any decision I’m gonna make.

  10. These kind of incidents always remind me of an old Bill Cosby bit: “I heard on the news 14 people were shot at McDonalds. Now how does that happen? Mr #11 says to Mr #13, I bet you $20 he’s out of bullets.”

    Too soon? Meh, probably.

    • I think the good guy here shot the shooter with the shooter’s gun, not that the citizen was himself armed. He tackled the guy and got the gun away from him.

  11. Why would anyone possibly need a scope on a revolver? It only serves to aid slaughter and mayhem. They must be banned at once! Everyone knows that honest revolvers only have wood or (synthetic) ivory stocks, and only come in .38spl and .22lr. These dangerous items must be cleaned out of our pure, angelic, wonderful, delightfully politically correct society!

  12. How very sad and tragic. My thoughts and prayers go out to the families. I am glad that someone stopped the scumbag before he injured or killed more people.

    The reports indicated the criminal used a handgun with a scope … with which he shot through walls and killed people. That sounds like a .44 Magnum. And, depending on the construction of the building, I have to wonder if the criminal scumbag used hardcast lead bullets?

    Carry . everywhere . all . the . time. You never know where or when someone will drive a car into a crowd, start throwing Molotov cocktails, or start shooting.

    • Sounds about right. Pissed off with the county for years, about to lose his property, poor w/few options (desperate)…

      • If its anything like the small town government with which I have experience, they’ve probably a real hardon for power and refused to work with the guy.

    • They were going to take his land for shitting in a bucket? When they give you a permit for a structure, does that really mean you can’t shack up there if you are unable to afford anywhere else? It is not like he was panhandling. It seems like the state has a real problem with people who figure out ways to avoid participation in their profit model.

      It will be interesting if we can learn just how much harassment this guy had been subjected to, if he is indeed the shooter. Was this “town meeting” in fact the body that would ultimately be responsible for evicting Newell and/or seizing his land? It’s funny the kind of corruption and abuse that can happen in “quiet towns.”

      • You really need to rethink this comment. Towns have building codes to protect the value of property. If your neighbor wants to fill his front yard with junk, it hurts your property value.

        But none of that is provocation to kill someone. People are dead and wounded. It is not time to make political hay for opposing small town ordinances.

        • Do you really think the guy was just waiting for an excuse to do this? It is possible but I think something he perceived as pretty egregious must have driven him to this horrific act.

          The article posted clearly states he was having financial difficulties and had nowhere to go, yet he owned this property. What town has a right to make you homeless when you are landed? This country cares more about front yards and property values than it does people and this has been illustrated countless times.

          It remains to be seen if this case is an exception to the rule of small town busy bodies driving someone to the brink, but the bottom line is that violence does not occur in a vacuum. Whether it is black kids or old white guys, socio-economic factors ALWAYS drive the decision to resort to violence.

        • Zoning is nothing but a violation of property rights. If you don’t like what I have in my front yard, buy the land from me or STFU.

        • Your rights end at my property line. If you don’t like the way it looks, GOD gave you eye lids, use em. If you don’t own a portion of the property, well, you have the right to remain silent. if yo ugive up the right to remain silent, anything you say can be used as evidence against you in a good old fashioned whooping.
          Thats how it should be handled, or by todays standards, anyone who harasses their neighbor over the contents of his property should be made to pay all relevant costs.

        • Guys, yell at the computer screen if it makes you feel better. No one was pointing a gun at him. They had not passed zoning laws or regulations AFTER he purchased the land. He bought an asset he could not afford to maintain. A functioning septic system is not an oppressive burden and he has had several years of notification.

          He shot through walls. He did not target individuals. He shot blindly through walls and had no regard for who was innocent of involvment in the decision. He can afford 2 weapons and ammo but not a septic system. And in your minds that in some way justifies blaming the victims of the shooting?

          Look, if he shot the mayor or the council members who had voted against him, you might have the beginnings of an argument. But he shot through a wall into a room of human beings without regard for their role in his predicament. I am hoping he lives in a sanitary environment for the rest of his hopefully short life.

  13. How very sad and tragic. My thoughts and prayers go out to the families. I am glad that someone stopped the scumbag before he injured or killed more people.

    The reports indicated the criminal used a handgun with a scope … with which he shot through walls and killed people. That sounds like a .44 Magnum. And, depending on the construction of the building, I have to wonder if the criminal scumbag used hardcast lead bullets?

    Carry . everywhere . all . the . time. You never know where or when someone will drive a car into a crowd, start throwing Molotov c0cktails, or start shooting.

  14. If it actually turns out to be a scoped revolver, I wonder if Brownells will change their logo for Just Jawin’.

  15. This is why open carry should be allowed. People need to be ready to defend themselves anywhere and any place. What we have now we get to be targets. If you can’t fix stupid then when there is a gun involved shoot to defend your life. Other wise we remain as we are, targets for the next CNN news.

    • And now you know why the mainstream media wants us disarmed. When a psycho goes on a rampage and kills a bunch of defenseless people (regardless of what weapon the psycho uses), that makes a big story for the media — and big stories means big advertising dollars.

      Now imagine a psycho that intends to go on a rampage. The psycho gets ready and begins. Before the psycho accomplishes much of anything, an armed citizen stops the psycho right on the spot. That is NOT a big news story for the media — and “insignificant” news stories means no advertising dollars.

      A family member summed it up two days ago in a totally unrelated discussion. Cash drives everything in our world. And big media is no different: they will support anything that generates cash for them and oppose anything that takes away cash for them.

    • Open carry is not regulated in Pennsylvania. There’s no law restricting it that I could find. Also, CCWs are cheap and easy to get hold of.

  16. California is about to release 9,000 to 10,000 people out of prison. Oh boy…. More news events. Gun control has been made to make innocent people targets.

  17. I drove past there on my way home 40 minutes after it happened, There were fire trucks, ambulances, and a whole herd of cop cars, plus TV news crews. This is about 4 miles from my house. I didn’t know what it was until I got home and got on the ‘puter. I thought it was a bad car wreck. Saylorsburg, is an unincorporated village in Ross Township (One church, three taverns, one gas station, a lumber yard, a weekend flea market and maybe 50 houses surrounded by woods and farm land). We have no local law enforcement here, have to rely on State Police from Leheighton, which is a good 20 plus minute drive away. I have driven past Mr. Newell’s place many, many times, as recently as last week. It is a gosh awful looking place, but he has no close by neighbors. we are NOT a suburb of Philly or Allentown. Philly is 70 plus miles south. Allentown is well over 30 miles south west. It’s rural here, I’ve seen a black bear cross the street less than a 1/4 miles from where this happened. I have never met Mr. Newell, but I am aware the township has a hard on for anyone that has a lot of trash on their property. They have hounded some of the other local “hoarders” with fines and such for having a bunch of abandoned cars, appliances etc. in the yard. Sadly, this is not the first homicide in the area, for such a rural community, we have had several murders in the 21 years I have lived here, mostly because of meth labs and the “wonderful” folks that run them. I did mention that we have no local police, right? I’ve had a couple of occasions to call them, and discovered that 40 minutes to 2 hour response times are typical. They can’t help it, they are a smallish unit several miles away and grossly understaffed for the area they have to cover. Our Post Office got shot up one night by people driving by in a car. Thankfully it was after they had closed at night and no one was inside. My thoughts and prayers are with the families that lost loved ones and also with Mr. Newell for feeling that he had no other recourse. Just wanted to give you guys a viewpoint from someone that lives very close to where this took place. The 11:00 news said that the death toll was now 4 people. No one was identified except the alleged shooter, but I bet I know at least one of the victims, it’s a small town. The official statement from the police was that he first used a “long gun” and then went back to his car to get a handgun. No answer was given when they were asked what type of weapons were used.

      • Seriously, I must say thank you too for giving us this info.

        This is a really messed up situation and I know how frustrating hoarders can be as my mother has struggled with those tendencies. Those people, hoarding types, are filling a void in their lives with the junk they collect. It is about remaining hopeful for the future to them because otherwise they have no hope, from their perspective, and become very depressed. They feel like somehow the stuff will be useful to them or someone they can pass it on too.

        When this township fined Newell money they knew he didn’t have, they were telling him he was not welcome on land he apparently owned. This is not an unusual practice, nor is the eviction because that is EXACTLY what the fines are supposed to lead up to. They fine folks who can’t pay until they can take the land as payment for non compliance. It is nothing short of tyranny, regardless of how you feel about anyone’s yard.

        How does one man respond to tyranny without violence? The short answer is that one does not respond at all, you roll over and take it like everyone else. What Newell did was horrible, but he saw those people as taking everything he had and he was quite literally correct, though he probably shot people who had nothing at all to do with it. Revenge is a funny thing – people tell you not to give in to it, but when you are stripped of everything then revenge becomes the ONLY thing left and then you can’t just bury it anymore.

        People need to wake up and realize that governments are just tax exempt corporations. That is how they see themselves and they see citizens like you and me as employees. Problem employees are terminated. Newell chose to take his tormentors with him and while I don’t condone his actions, I don’t know what the hell else these petty little technocrats and functionaries expect with the way they treat people.

        Is it any wonder they are afraid of guns in private hands? Was anybody really afraid of Rockne Newell before he shot up that building? You see, they don’t fear people, they got over that a long time ago. They fear the tool, that the silly little people they exploit might just be crazy enough to use. It has become a question of odds nowadays, they want to reduce the odds of this happening through restriction of 2A rights because they know their policies make it inevitable that someone will want to kill them.

        • Someone who tries to take away everything a man has shouldn’t be surprised when he acts like he’s got nothing to lose.

          It’s not the first time this sort of thing has happened, and it won’t be the last, but every time it happens it’s a tragedy.

  18. So “no recourse”, “desperate”, etc. means it is somehow ok shoot up and kill a bunch of people?
    A nutcase and crank. Tired of responsible people letting that be an excuse. We are our own worst enemies when it comes to guns. I don’t care whether he was on or off his meds, or tired of the local government/county government/state government not letting him crap in a bucket or run a junkyard. He was no more fit to own a fake gun, never mind a real one.
    Enough already. No wonder the anti-gunners look at we, the people of the gun, and shake their heads.

    • Nobody here approves of what this man did, but it should be understood why he did it instead of labeling him as a monster or a psycho like you are in truly simple minded fashion. Thankfully, there doesn’t seem to be much ambiguity to that question – he was driven to what he did by a local government that did not want him around. Left alone he would still be picking through junk and minding his own business.

      But while we’re on the topic of who is “fit to own a gun” maybe you, Mr Ex LEO, could tell us how you like the idea of taking the 2A rights of anyone whose property runs afoul of the township or city one resides in? That would save lives wouldn’t it? You could get them back as soon as you COMPLY and PAY UP.

      Frankly man, you sound like you’re already in the anti-2A camp in your heart. Just take the plunge and go full on gliberal! Then you will be EXPECTED to come down on anyone who uses their brain and clearly that is an expectation that you, my good sir, can meet!

      • He is an “old lawman”. So of course he is going to stand up for the thugs in “authority”. His type think it is ok for the government to threaten us with guns. Disarming the governments would make for a better America.

        • I’m not standing up for anyone in authority. Where did it say in any of the reports that someone tried to take away his guns ?
          The reason for my post was to question why anyone would think that his last resort is to go shoot a bunch of people, bureaucrats or otherwise ? What does that have to do with 2A rights ? My point is that this kind of crazy/childish response in frustration just adds more fuel to the anti-gunner’s fire. I have no problem with him appearing at every meeting or picketing out in front of the municipal building. But to those who take issue with my post – do any of you think his response was in any way, shape or form appropriate ?

        • Old Lawman,
          Is it appropriate to respond with violence to a crook on the street who demands “your money or your life?” Or, should you just picket his home or petition that he leave you alone?

          Even if the crook is unarmed, the threat of lethal violence is still there. And, the same is true of government. Every one of their edicts is backed up by the barrell of a gun… carried by a man like you.

  19. It just occurred to me that if he did use a long gun and then only later came back with a revolver (maybe his only handgun), that long gun was probably an SKS or an AK. That would explain the voracious penetration of the walls, as 7.62×39 penetrates like .308 at moderate range and we all know how affordable it is.

  20. When regular, peaceful folks who just want to be left alone have their property and persons threatened by a violent gang of thugs, what is an appropriate reaction? Cowtow and pay your vig, or stand up and resist?

    I don’t expect answers… it’s merely a personal thought experiment. But how you answer will tell you alot about yourself and how you view the world.

    • Contrast civic “leaders” and the mafia what diffrences are there? Maybe the method of “election”, but it is still one group stealing anothers property that they worked for and earned. if the neighbors and council were so upset, and needed to act, they all should have packed up and moved. Or been neighborly and built a fence to keep kids out.

      • In theory, there are several differences, but the main one centers on the idea of public good. Civic leaders do “steal” money from the populace, but it is given back in forms of public welfare: roads, sewers, education, healthcare, fire and police protection, and so on. The mafia, or any game that victimizes the public does it for personal fiscal gain.

        I have real problems with the seeming lack of help the shooter had with his problems (seeming because I sure don’t know much, if any, of the real history of the problems he had with the local government and how they worked or didn’t work with him). I grew up in a very rural area, and there were real attempts to help those who needed it, but that was in the 60s.

        • You’re deluding yourself if you don’t think politicians are in the “game” for “personal fiscal gain.” The “public good” is just the nominal justification they use to get you to buy into their “protection” racket. It’s a scam!

          Besides, if something really served the “public good,” don’t you think people would buy it voluntarily?

  21. I’m really liking the fact that the guy who took down the shooter took his gun off him and shot him twice in the leg with it (head would have worked even better).

  22. Everybody interested in this story should invest a few days in reading Unintended Consequences by John Ross. It explores the causes, and inevitable effects, of tyrannical government.

  23. Just choked down about half the comments posted here. Time for some eyes to get opened. This should not be about white/black, left/right, pro/anti gun. Clear out your heads because they seem to be loaded with so much flag-waving, “I gots my rights” propaganda and hatred. Maybe focus on a tragic loss of life, what created it, and (if you still have any mental energy after that) how to prevent repeat incidents.

    -Or just keep on luvin’ yer guns and defendin’ yer rights and “God have mercy on yer soul fer interferin’ with my liberties!” The U.S.A. is a joke. Easily the most messed up nation on Earth with the highest concentration of paranoid nutbags. #1 my A$$!

  24. The Infringement Lobby will wet themselves with joy exploiting this one. It’s already started, a claim that it was an “automatic pistol with a scope.” Sh*tstorm coming. Again.

  25. The main difference between this cowardly fvck and Tamerlan Tsarnaev is the choice of weapon.

    Both had their “reasons” for attacking people who did nothing to harm them. Frankly, I don’t give a sh1t about their reasons. They can go straight to hell and take their little dog Dzhokhar with them.

  26. According to his Facebook page Rockne Newell is another leftwing loon like Amy Bisho and Jared Loughner. Given the propensity of these nutcases to follow “progressive” doctrine perhaps we could come to some compromise with the gun grabbers. Ban Democrats from gun ownership if they subscribe to the NYT, Huffington Post or the Daily Kos.

  27. And it could have been worse if the guy that was carrying didn’t have a gun. Chalk one up for concealed carry. Let’s get that out there in the media!!!

  28. Well hopefully the council will think three or four times before deciding to take another mans property rights. About time there were consequences. Too bad all of the dead were not all elected members of the local government.

  29. Once again, I think we can leave out the Dem / Rep divide.

    People like this may side with a political agenda to somehow excuse or rationalize their actions. Shooting up a town hall meeting transcends who you voted for, unless you casted your vote to the Fukduplicans or the Loonicrats.

    The idea of the 2 party system is to maintain a direction that stays close to the center of the political spectrum. Dems and Reps aren’t all that different at the end of the day, save for a few polarized ideals. Maybe we should save our biases for Communists and Fascists, and be thankful for the attempts of a balanced parliament.

    But…if I want to shit in a bucket in my own front yard and that’s enough to take my home away, maybe there is more fascism than we’d like to acknowledge. “Land of the free” my foot!

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