Are you a woman or small-framed shooter? No matter what size you are, does toting your rifle around while shooing wear you down? It doesn’t have to. The NRA’s Kim Heath says bringing it down using the “flat stock” method — resting the stock on your shoulder rather than with the butt in the crook of your arm — is the way to go for full AR nirvana. Thanks to the people at Asymmetric Solutions, Tim McNabb, Paul McCain and I will soon get a chance to give this a try ourselves during a day-long session at their palatial facility in southeast Missouri. Expect a full report along with plenty of pics and hours of video.

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46 Responses to Arms Getting Tired? Try the Flat Stock Hold

    • Solutions looking for problems and problems looking for solutions are both what we call in today’s world “Progress”. I cant tell you how many times I’ve held the weapon that way on patrol.

      • Yup Alex. Just because I’m 200+ pounds and can carry her and her rifle, doesn’t mean that I want to hold a rifle all day when I could let my body support it

    • Not every shooter is a big burly manly man. Just because I can carry a rifle in the traditional positions does not mean that a 5’2″, 100lbs soaking wet female can.

    • This. So many times this. If you cant hold up an 8-10 lb rifle long enough to shoot 30 rounds (or less), then you seriously need to hit the gym. That and, as another comment already mentioned, if you are holding the rifle correctly, most of the weight shouldnt be on your muscles anyway.

      • I’ll have to try it myself just to see, but it seems to me like the “flat stock hold” is alleviating a problem that’s being created by the “counter supination grip.” Holding the gun in a counter supination grip with the stock in the pocket and the muzzle down seems very uncomfortable, and the flat stock hold alleviates that. Holding the gun in a conventional forward grip eliminates that discomfort, and thus the need to alleviate it.

        As I said, I’m going to play around with it, but that’s my initial impression.

      • The video specifically states that the purpose is for more than simply target shooting, but potentially also combat when duration is increased. Pay attention, child.

    • Suit yourself. Not everyone is alike. I know it doesn’t fit your worldview, but your worldview’s too narrow.

  1. The beauty of the AR is it’s light weight, both rifle and ammo. Which people promptly bugger up with wanker rails and enough doohickies to make their Mattel special weigh more than my Mosin Nagent.

    • 1+

      this applies to all guns, only attach as many rails you need. Sure, a quad rail looks cool(no, it doesn’t) but attaching only miniscule amounts of rail is much more practical. Want a scope? Put on a rail just long enough to mount the scope mount. Repeat for all your other accessories.

      • It really doesn’t.

        Wanker fans should really be aware that most of us think you accidentally dunked your rifle in a barrel full of Legos and Gorilla glue.

    • at least there is no 37mm launcher, infra-red spot light, bottle opener attached. just what you need for home defense, a 1.7 pound tactical Scope for those long shots across the bed room.

      • Let’s add on a 100 round drum mag for those large, well trained teams of home invaders that guys like stallone and willis are always running up against.

        • Real gun control: Shaming works.

          Ugly guns need not apply. Put that on a fu*king billboard.

  2. Or, if you hold it correctly with your elbows tucked in, the weight is borne by the joints not the muscles.

    I have yet to see a video from this lady that makes any sense.

  3. Also, if you don’t have the strength to hold up an 8 lb rifle , you probably shouldn’t use that coke can grip.

  4. Here are some pro-tips:

    1) sit down and use a bench

    2) remove that junk on your rifle. You don’t need it for those 25 yards at that range anyways.

    3) muscular relaxation

  5. Looks painful on the wrist the way she holds it, but this can be a valuable tool in the toolbox. I recommend people experiment with holding and carrying their firearms in different ways. To reduce fatigue, I’d recommend cycling through a variety of holds, like a hiker adjusting his pack frequently to transfer fatigue and strain to different areas.

  6. can someone explain to me the “counter supination grip”? I’ve seen people using very untraditional holds on the fore end, this among them, holds you obviously cannot use with most traditional rifles. Not being an AR owner, what is the purpose of these holds?

    • I’m an AR owner, and I have shot my M4 in a variety of really awkward positions. This makes no sense to me whatsoever. It feels like one of those things someone like Costa recommended and now everyone is doing it. I’ve tried it…Its not for me.

  7. Right technique, wrong gun. The ‘flat hold’ is a commonly taught technique for shooting an 870 or other PD type shotgun, and it works. For LEO types who can’t handle 12 gauge recoil it can be a godsend.

    The other (and better) technique to learn is to pull forward with the off hand, but not enough to overcome pulling the shotgun into the pocket. Creating tension in the off arm/shoulder/back makes heavy recoil a much better proposition, but takes a lot of practice. Screwing up this technique has consequences.

    • I used that pulling technique with a .30-30 a couple week ago. Where before I had a sore shoulder and bruises for a week from just 10 rounds, I didn’t have a single problem after 15-20. Made all the difference in the world.

  8. I think you guys are writing her off just because she has teats and looks cute. I would really hate to see her coming at ME, and her description of center of gravity of the rifle and body dynamics is right on the mark. She has a good idea of muscle use and joint rotation. Also, what is it that you do not understand about the counter supination hold of her left hand on the foregrip of the rifle? Looks pretty simple to me, and I have found it useful as I am 65 years old and do not move like a spring chicken anymore. I am also a Registered Nurse and have a good idea of dynamics of the human body, and I fully appreciate what she has to say. Just cause it does not float youir barge, does not mean that there are not others who can use it.
    Robert Seddon
    Mineral, Va.

  9. Think the ‘counter supination grip’ is weird? Hold your non-dominant hand in front of you in a relaxed manner, thumb up. Now rotate 90 degrees out, then twist your wrist in and cup your fingers, like you’re holding a long gun. If you’re not actually holding anything, it’s uncomfortable. Imagine a weaker (petite individual, child, elderly, or someone suffering from carpal tunnel) person doing this and it makes plenty of sense.
    Also, the flat stock hold is only about a way to bear the weight of your rifle when you’re not actively shooting, but toting it around all day. As someone who totes around tools every single day, I can attest to the tiring factor of even a small amount of weight if it’s in an uncomfortable position.

  10. Not a fan of the counter supination grip (good support for slow, bullseye target shooting but less side-to-side or up-and-down control and speed), the hooked trigger finger (slip off the gun and BOOM. It is not as safe as indexing your finger straight. Especially when drawing a pistol from a holster, which is what was happening w/ the Serpa’s when that was a deal. Hooked finger for indexing is not a good idea), or really the flat stock hold either. You’d have to push it forward, assuming it doesn’t catch on your clothing, and then pull it back before you could fire, and build muscle memory to bring it to your shoulder in the same place every time. Said a couple comments up: “the flat stock hold is only about a way to bear the weight of your rifle when you’re not actively shooting, but toting it around all day” …if only someone would invent a strap or webbing of some sort that you could attach to the rifle and sling around your shoulder. You could even call it a “sling.” It would allow your arms to support little-to-none of the rifle’s weight and you could bring it up from a low ready position every time you needed to fire. Low ready, being the standard for fairly good reason… arms could even be in position on the gun, but actually resting on it w/ the sling holding the weight, ready to bring the gun to the shoulder at any point.

  11. If someone finds it helpful, I’m at a loss as to what all y’alls problem is. NO ONE IS SAYING YOU HAVE TO DO THIS. But it’s a woman in the video, and you can’t help chiming in to prove your masculinity. You’re talking more to yourself than anyone else.

    • I think the video’s fine and the technique is useful, but that it’s a target competition technique, especially for heavy small-bore rifles. Perhaps that’s why some people don’t connect with it. Can’t hurt to learn extra techniques.

  12. You know, I see a few “well, get stronger” comments. I have an idea. The next time you take your AR out for a test spin, carry it for 12-hours in an on-shoulder, muzzle forward and elevated position, no strap, 480 rounds of 5.56 ammunition, vest, and enough water for the trip. As far as I am concerned, if anyone has a technique that reduces the wear-and-tear on the body so that you still have as much strength as you need should something happen, listen. Just my 2-cents.

    • Perhaps my experience has been limited. Slings that spread the load are familiar to me. Yet, I know of no group without slings who carries an AR for more than thirty or forty minutes. There must be such groups. Who are they? (I have mil experience, but no LE. Lots of hunting experience.)

  13. This must be a competition-specific technique. When I want to reduce the weight on the arms, I either use the sling or carry muzzle-up, stock held between bicep and ribcage.

  14. The technique has merit with some people under some situations, just another tool to consider.

    I just wish the video wouldn’t self start every few minutes on my computer.

  15. Thank you Crunkleross and all of the other commentators who have mentioned the positives and negatives with this method and her forward hand hold.

    This is an option that is available to all shooters, if it works for you then great, if not, great.

    Her weapon is full of crap that she doesn’t need, but it is apparently set up for a competition.

    Her sling would get her killed in combat, she would have to un-clip it to regain her motion.

  16. That’s a great tip. Hopefully it will help more shooters enjoy the sport, learn to love it, and support the Second Amendment (including M4 pattern carbines). We can use all of the supporters we can get.

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