“The most investigated crime in world history — the assassination of President John F. Kennedy on Nov. 22, 1963 — gets yet a new theory when ReelzChannel premieres the original investigative doc JFK: The Smoking Gun on Nov. 3,” deadline.com reports. “[The documentary] comes to a genuinely fascinating conclusion: There was a second shooter during that fateful day in Dallas, and it wasn’t an assassin. It was a Secret Service agent named George Hickey, who was riding in the car in the motorcade directly behind Kennedy’s vehicle and whose automatic weapon accidentally discharged.” Author Bonar Menninger and a retired Australian detective Colin McLaren reckon “the truth” was  covered up at the highest levels of United States intelligence and by JFK’s brother Robert. “The lone gunman theory is nonsense and always has been.” Yeah, this is way more credible. But not the first time someone’s blamed a Secret Service agent for the head shot.

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78 Responses to Was JFK Killed by an ND?

  1. It would explain a lot,actually.Don’t assume malice when sheer incompetence is a logical explaination.

    The most unsafe place you can be is on a range with law enforcement officers.With some exceptions,most cops are range bubbas with a badge.Its an ugly truth,but the Hollywood portrayal of cops as gun ninjas is total BS.

      • Today, their training is top notch. Back then? Not to mock the old timers, but have you seen the 1960s training videos?

        Heck, Jeff Cooper hadn’t even founded Gunsite yet.

        • I wouldn’t ride off the old Secret Service just because they carried .45ACP and .38 Super M1911s or .38/.357 revolvers and they were taught to point shoot. If you want to get an idea of what M&P shooting was like back before Vietnam, look at “Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting.”

          The only way for us to know who shot JFK is to get a good look at the entry wound, the exit wound, and the bullet fragments. You’d probably have no problem figuring out whether the hole was caused by a 6.5 Carcano or a .38 Special.

        • You mean ‘old timers’ that won WWII or the ones that helped create the 38th Parallel?

          By modern training, are you talking about the U.S. Marshal and Sarasota SWAT team that threw down on a 59 YO nurse washing dishes? She still got to her .38 before they bashed down the door. If they were any good they wouldn’t have been in the wrong apt complex much less the wrong apt.

  2. “The most shoddily-investigated crime in world history”. Fixed that for you, Robert.

    And by the way, this story is a really old DISINFORMATION ploy. It’s a serious mistake to believe any part of it.

    I studied the case for decades. I even edited and published THE GRASSY KNOLL GAZETTE for over five years. I’ve been through this story forwards and back again several times. I know what I’m talking about.

    • How do you feel about the book Mortal Error? I read it awhile ago and found it believable but never talked to anyone who had really done homework on it.

      Never mind. I just read your post again and you already answered it.

      • William was a consultant on the X files. He sat in front of the tv and yelled at the screen during every episode.

    • Part of the problem is there were a lot of people trying to cover things up. There were plenty that could have had a stake including the Mafia, Jimmy Hoffa, CIA and even old Banes. Banes definitely gained the most by his death.

      • I always figured there were lots of people who wanted him dead and one of them succeeded. Assume they were all there, spread among grassy knolls, rusty bridges, warehouses, bus stops, hiding behind litter bins. One of them jumped in line and took the shot. In Palm Beach they had parties the night he was shot. It’s a very cold world out there. Still.

  3. I had the wonderful privilege to visit the great city of Dallas Texas a few years ago, and walk that street early in the morning when there were no cars on the street. Once you see it from a 3-dimensional perspective with a good understanding of firearms while imagining the view from Oswald’s perch, it becomes fairly clear that Oswald would not have needed another shooter to help make those shots. In my view, with Oswald’s training, it would have been a turkey shoot. I am not saying I knew what happened, but after seeing and walking where the shots occurred, I am astonished when “experts” claim that Oswald could not have made those shots himself. But don’t take my word for it. Go! See the gradual slope and curve of the road, and compare it from the perspective of the window. I bet most of us could have made the shots.

    • I bet most of us could have made the shots.

      Easily. Most of us could have hit the “target” four times. Oswald actually missed a shot.

      • Not to mention he had the aid of being a Marine Sharpshooter and an accurate if out-of-date rifle. Not to mention that the shot to the head came from a whopping 88 yards. It’s really not that remarkable.

        • Agreed. An Air Force military policeman shot a spree killer dead from a confirmed distance of 71 yards, using a line-issue M9 pistol in a crouched position .

          With a headshot-using 9mm NATO ball.

    • Never mind credible by looking at it, I’ve done it! We recreated it at a vintage shoot and we ALL easily did it (with a variety of vintage rifles) and yes, one guy had a Carcano and did it.

    • I remember my dad dismissing the critics as know nothings. He was a prewar regular and first qualified on an ’03 Springfield. He thought that Oswald didn’t do anything that any rifleman is his pre-draft company couldn’t do.

  4. I’ve read Mortal Error. It’s more believable than some of the wackier conspiracy theories, but it still fails the occam’s razor test. The theory accepts that LHO was shooting at (and even hit) JFK from the Book Depository. Instead of accepting that his third shot fatally wounded the President it needlessly creates a narrative that involves a coverup that doesn’t explain the evidence any better.

    • Deadline reports this as a “new theory”, but Mortal Error, by Menninger, was published in ’92. I read it back then.

  5. Tough to reckon with a disgruntled former Marine 75 yards from his target. First shot aimed at his melon and entering in JFKs’ neck. Second shot adjusted hit his mark. An average marksman, with a crappy rifle, disciplined & assisted by local newspapers outlining the route, presented a deranged mind an opportunity to put his stamp on history.

    Hard to believe one man in the right place, seizing a moment can impose his will on the a country and this is why the conspiracy clan remains.

  6. That’s the dumbest idea I’ve heard yet. Well, at least it’s the dumbest idea I can remember hearing, at the moment.

    As John Dean said, “Eventually, the truth comes out”. It would have by now. It was Oswald.

    • +1

      there was a nifty documentary on Discovery a few years ago. They looked at the line of site from the various sites that the conspiracy theorists propose, and all of them have problems. Usually including things like a head shot on JFK from other positions would cause the bullet to hit others too.

      They recreated a shot from the Book Repository and precisely simulated what is seen in the Zapruder film.

      Doubtlessly anybody who hasn’t been convinced in the last few decades will remain unconvinced.

      • There was also one where they re created the shots with a ballistic gelatin “dummy” filled with rib bones and organ analogs, sent the data to a forensics lab telling them it was from a shooting in a sports stadium, along with some of the other information from the assassination and the lab came back with the conclusion that it was done by one shooter from an elevated position. The lab tech was quite shocked when they were finally told that it was the JFK assassination they had analyzed, if I recall correctly.

      • I remember watching that as well. They were able to replicate everything down to where the shell casings ended up laying on the floor. They also came to the conclusion that the first, missed shot likely hit a traffic signal that the motorcade passed under.

      • I’ve seen this. It was very well done. A telling example of the level of detail that they went through to test this is that they used ammunition from the same Lot number that Oswald used. The replicated the shot, it’s effects, and where it ended up almost perfectly. It was a great forensic piece.

  7. Anyone read the book I Heard You Paint Houses?

    Author Frank Sheeran asserts it was the mob behind the assasination, and that Oswald was the triggerman. BS or not, it was a fascinating insight into the world of Jimmy Hoffa.

  8. The funny thing is, a gun blog is one of the few places where a JFK assassination discussion is considered normal conversation…

  9. Nah. Interesting, but its easier to believe that Oswald “missed” his first shot (as far as he knew), boned his second, and pulled off the money shot, third try, possibly aiming out of his ass– than a Secret Service agent fumbling a million-to-one headshot out of a holster.

  10. I always figured that progressives were the ones pushing the
    conspiracy theories so they wouldn’t have to admit it was
    a dyed-in-the-wool socialist/communist that did the
    shooting.

    • I think it is ironic that the modern democrat party has more in common with Lee Harvey Oswald than JFK.

      • “If by a “Liberal” they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a “Liberal”, then I’m proud to say I’m a “Liberal.” JFK said this. Who wants to be the first to call him a ‘Libtard’?

        • You can care all you want about anyone you want.

          However, as soon as you expect me to pay for your caring, we’ve got a problem.

          It is not the business of government to transfer money from the productive to the non-productive.

        • I don’t see anything new about authoritarianism, strict government control, and lack of individual rights and freedom for the common people. In one form or another, that’s pretty much how most people have lived throughout human history. Individual rights and liberty for the common people is far more revolutionary, and it’s in it’s infancy by comparison. Now, if we can just keep that flame alive…

  11. I thought there was a 50 year lockup of “The JFK Files” which would then be released – this year. However a quick internet search found mention of the files of the House Select Committee on Assassinations which are locked away until the year 2029. Sigh.

  12. I have no idea who shot Kennedy. However, let’s pretend that the official story is true and the world (and government) was caught off guard by this lone nut attack. To those involved in the response (doctors, examiners, secret service, police, military, etc.), this was THE BIGGEST thing to happen to any of them in their careers and their lives. When faced with the most important event in your life to date, would you fuck it up at every turn? Would you not take proper autopsy photos this time? Would you not properly measure the locations of the wounds this time? Would you LOSE THE GODDAMNED BRAIN?!

    The post-assassination fuckup is FAR beyond normal government incompetence. It is well into deception. Any bit of real evidence on the body that would confirm or disprove the witnesses that heard shots from the front AND the back (multiple shooters) just happened to get lost this time? MmmHmmm…

    Why would you cover up for a lone nut? Would you cover up for the mafia? Would you cover up for the Cubans? Would you cover up for the communists? Would you cover up for any of the usual conspiracy suspects? You cover up to save your own butts.

    I don’t know who did it (and do the names of the trigger pullers really matter?), but the government must have had a good reason to cover it up, and it wasn’t a lone nut surprise attack.

    • You fail to reckon with the absolute incompetence of the average person, especially those in government. Keep in mind that fully 50% of the people are below average. . .

  13. Argh! Anything but another conspiracy theory. I get it, simpletons don’t like the idea that a single person (or a small group, ala 11-9) can accomplish such a task, but yes, they can … and do.

  14. Anybody read Stephen Hunter’s “The Third Bullet”? I understand that it has its issues in historical accuracy, but it was pretty entertaining. I liked approaching the investigation from a ballistic perspective.

    • I thought it was a great book. His theory, though provided in a fiction book, is the best/worst kind- it’s plausible, uses some good ballistics knowledge, and it’s 1000% bona fide unprovable.

  15. I had a class on Organized Crime in college. We were studying RFK and his pressure on the mafia. We listened to some undercover audio of some mafia guys talking about RFK and the how he was hurting them. One guy said “Looks like we killed the wrong Kennedy.” Draw your own conclusions.

    • OK – let’s see:

      1) Mountain of evidence that Oswald killed Kennedy.

      2) One sentence said offhand by some Italian mob blowhard.

      Hmmmm…

      • You seem to be some kind of CIA/FBI/Government shill or something? Or do you simply think that you know best? Have you ever been to the school book depository or to the floor from which Oswald was supposed to have fired the shot? You would have had to have been a great shooter to make that kind of shot, under that kind of pressure…which Oswald was not? Have you ever worked for the government or been near a President? Until you have experienced some of these situations…watched some of the conspiracies that are hatched out by corrupt government employees… or watched at how they use their power to cover up incompetence..? If not, then you should probably quit embarrassing yourself? Eh ?

        Regards,

        RJ O’Guillory
        Author-
        Webster Groves – The Life of an Insane Family

  16. Judging by the gruesome way the President’s head reacts to the bullet impact, I’d say that’s far more indicative of a rifle-caliber impact like the 6.8x52mm than a shot from a .45 or .38 caliber pistol.

    Freeze the video at 0:56 for reference.

  17. I saw a copy of the original, uncensored Zapruder film. The censors blotted out the whole bottom half of the frame (but made it look like an accident, like something’s obscuring the camera), where in the original you can clearly see the driver of Kennedy’s limo turn around and fire left-handed over his right shoulder, capping
    Kennedy between the eyes.

  18. I’ve never heard the “driver shot him” theory. That definitely takes the cake for weapons-grade tinfoil hattery.

    • That’s why the only copies of the Zapruder film anyone can find any more have been censored. In the original, you can clearly see the limo driver turn and shoot JFK.

  19. I think JFK was ordered killed by LBJ, who wanted the office and the power…and was given permission to kill him by TPTB (Bankers) who wanted their NWO and to get rid of JFK/RFK..and us “useless eaters”…but they knew there were 85 billion of us getting ready to create the largest economy (and pile of wealth) in the history of the planet, and they wanted to gut that wealth for their own ego’s and uses…(i.e, NWO) I think that GHW Bush was the operational manager that day, as you can see the two SS Men ordered of the Limo, and we all know that GHWB was in Dallas that day…and he continued on his way up the food-chain…? GHWB climbed to the point where he and his friends have demolished the US…made traitors of his kids and family..and built a complex on a mountain in Paraguay…? Do you really think they had the US…or people’s best interests at heart at all?

    No…I worked in DC…got a tour of GHWB’s Air Force One…very few things happen by accident…

    Regards,

    RJ O’Guillory
    Author-
    Webster Groves – The Life of an Insane Family

  20. Read;

    Marina and Lee by Priscilla Johnson McMillan.

    Priscilla is the only person who knew Kennedy, Oswald and Marina on a first name basis, and spent time with both families, although Kennedy would have been addressed as Mr. President.

    I talked with her some years ago about all the conspiracy theories floating around and she just shook her head and laughed at the stupidity…..

  21. The reason I know there is no government conspiracy is that if two people in government know about it, one of them is going to leak it to the press. A consipiracy of this magnitude would require literally hundreds of federal, state and local law enforcement and medical professionals to keep a secret for fifty years. No way, no how.

    • Bingo. Worked at various state and Federal agencies for more than 30 years. Clusterfvck was a good discription of them.

  22. When I was in Dallas, lo many years ago, I visited the grassy knoll. The scene is much smaller than I’d expected. The ‘impossible’ shot taken by LHO didn’t seem so impossible as the conspiracy theorists seem to believe. There is without doubt much that’s murky about these events but this latest theory seems pretty improbable to me.

  23. If any lesson is to be leaned by the JFK incident, is as current today as it was back then; don’t bump off the POTUS when you have an idiot in the wings waiting. That is why Obama has never had to worry about this issue. No body would believe Biden as POTUS. Pretty smart if you ask me.

  24. As a young man I visited Dealy Plaza within a few years after the shooting. Long before the area built up. The overpass the limo is seen driving under was the last real structure at the edge of the downtown area far different than today. I also worked in several government agencies. Cover up? Impossible. Botched work is the norm. Weird stuff happened with the autopsy, but it reads more like normal agency turf wars. And indeed, we’ll never fully know.

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