New Jersey Legislators Stop Losing Vote on Gun Ban Bills

Press release from the Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs:

In a dramatic upset in the timing of the “centerpiece” of the Democrats’ gun bill package, the New Jersey Assembly Law & Public Safety Committee [above] failed to muster enough votes to pass S2723/A4182 out of committee. In a stunning turn of events, it became apparent during a roll call vote that there were not a sufficient number of Democratic votes for the bill. Rather than complete the roll call as required by legislative rules, chaos and confusion ensued as the committee chairman and staffers halted the proceedings mid-roll-call and huddled in an adjacent room while they figured out what to do . . .

Republican members of the committee protested the unprecedented procedure and argued with the chairman. Rather than completing the embarrassing vote, the chairman made a face-saving announcement that the bill was being “held” for further amendment at a future meeting.

It is highly irregular, and likely against legislative rules, to halt a vote once it has begun.

It is anticipated that the bill will resurface at another Assembly committee meeting later this month, where Democrats will use legislative maneuvers to either change the committee members to ensure a favorable outcome, or move the bill through an entirely different committee where they can better control the outcome.

“The game is completely rigged in Trenton,” said ANJRPC Executive Director Scott Bach. “The Democrats suffered an embarrassing delay today, but they will be back with a vengeance and attempt every procedural trick in the book to ensure the passage of their centerpiece bill.”

The stalled Sweeney bill throws out existing FID cards and replaces them with either a privacy-invading driver license endorsement or other form of ID; suspends Second Amendment rights without proof of firearms training; imposes a 7-day waiting period for handgun purchases; ends all private sales; and effectively creates a registry of ammunition purchases and long gun sales. Democrats have touted the bill as a national model.

Leading up to the unusual committee result, there was sharp testimony from several gun rights activists, including ANJRPC Executive Director Scott Bach, who ripped the bill as “a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist”and “an irrational attack” on gun owners. Bach mocked the suggestion that New Jersey is a “national model” for anything, told legislators to leave responsible gun owners alone, and urged them to pull their “centerpiece” off the table. Apparently, some Democrats agreed.

A recording of the hearing can be accessed here (scroll to Thursday, June 6, 2013, then click “listen”). Bach’s full statement is available here.

Other bills on the agenda passed out of committee, but those bills have either been previously amended so they only impact criminals, or they do not impact Second Amendment rights.

comments

  1. avatar jwm says:

    They didn’t like what was happening so they took their ball and went home. Crybabies.

  2. avatar Ralph says:

    I don’t know about New Jersey being the model for anything, but certainly Camden must be considered the model of governance for the Democrat party. It’s dirty, crime-ridden, corrupt, ugly, impoverished and a drain upon the economy of the region. It’s so bad that it makes Newark look good. In short, it’s the perfect symbol of progressivism.

    Camden is the Democrat vision for America. We are being Camdenized.

    1. avatar JOE MATAFOME says:

      jersy is a model CESSPOOL full of crooks and COMMIES.

      1. avatar WA_2A says:

        Hey now, Jersey isn’t so bad! They’ve got, umm…at least, on the bright side, um….

        Nope, you’re right. Jersey sucks.

        1. avatar Ralph says:

          New Jersey wasn’t even deemed a suitable resting place for Frank Lautenberg’s rotting corpse. So ’til this very day, the only garbage buried in New Jersey comes from New York.

    2. avatar JPD says:

      100% Ralph….Plus New Jersey is simply an example of governments in general. Worldwide, since recorded history.

      The ONLY time politicians and bureaucrats are kept honest is when the people hold them accountable for their actions. At the voting booth and criminally. Name a time and a place in recorded history that has happened?

      Try never.

    3. avatar detroiter says:

      …I thought that was Detroit……..

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        Detroit is Camden with a water view.

        1. avatar Slicer87 says:

          Camden does have a water view since it is right on the banks of the Delaware river right across from Philly which is another cesspool. The battleship NJ is docked at Camden.

  3. avatar EagleScout87 says:

    From everything I’ve read, what they did is illegal and they’re not allowed to stop a vote once it’s started. However, no one in the NJ government will call to task the NJ government…

    1. avatar Pascal says:

      illegal how? Its a procedure not a law. The courts have said over and over, they do not nor want to be involved in the sausage making process.

      They simply did not want the bad press, because could have done what they are doing anyway if it had failed.

      To progressives, keeping face and symbolic gestures are more important than following rules and laws because to a progressive, rules and laws are all just living documents meant to be manipulated when they do not suite their grand agenda. Furthermore, to a progressive once voted in they believe they have been given a political mandate and have no need to speak or listen to you.

      As we saw in CT, many democrats did not return calls, would not meet with constituents who did not hold “their” view and would not respond to emails with even a simple form letter response but then had the audacity to stand up in front of the news cameras and announce, they are working for “you”!

      Please, the democrats only care about rules only when it applies to their cause otherwise they are perfectly happy to break the rules.

      1. avatar EagleScout87 says:

        I stand corrected, it was against legislative rules. So not illegal, but also not playing by the rules. Nothing like changes the rules to fit your needs.

  4. avatar Powers says:

    And they say gun owners are “paranoid” about the government and the corrupt ani-gun movement. Here is an example, clear as day, of corruption. Had this been a conservative backed law that had stalled because of the same reason, they would be in the streets with signs that read “Tyranny” and “Hitler did it this way”.
    But since these are Democrats, this will ge a pass, and anyone who brings it up will be chastised , removed from the process or called a conspiracy nut. Probably all of the above. We play by the rules, they change the rules. Even if the majority of the people do not want it, they need the control. How else can they eventually just take the guns away if they can’t compromise the rules the process and go against the peoples wishes? The people can go FOAD. The Democrats know better than us, and eventually, they will show us how to be good followers and bow down to them. If not, there are always reeducation camps that could be built for those who are unenlightened.

    1. avatar Jeh says:

      +10
      Sadly that’s the name of the game now adays.

      1. avatar Roscoe says:

        Agreed!

  5. avatar SGC says:

    They couldn’t make it pass in open hearing so now they have to figure out a way to sneak it by…classy.

    1. avatar Roscoe says:

      That’s always the way with the Democrats. The Bills they propose aren’t intended to help anyone but themselves gain power (“progressive change for the good of all in modern society”) and retain power (create a society of dependency on government) .

      Look at the Affordable Care Act; the NY Safe Act. They sneak or bully the legislation through before anyone can truly assess its consequences and to obfuscate the true purposes of the legislation.

      It’s all doublespeak, that’s SOP for Democratic Party politics and their MSM parrots.

  6. avatar Don says:

    He’s going to ax that we hold this bill? That’s not just irregular, it’s against the rules of order.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      Bein’ from Jersey, he was afflicted with a speech impediment from his ute.

  7. avatar Michael B. says:

    Democrats have touted the bill as a national model.

    FOAD!

    1. avatar Sammy says:

      I got their model right here!

  8. avatar SkyMan77 says:

    What a gaggle of interlopers … I wonder if anyone will hold them accountable…

  9. avatar JR LORENCZ says:

    Why don’t they just flee the state like they did in Wisconsin and Texas when they didn’t get their way.

  10. avatar Daniel Silverman says:

    No they stopped a vote midway because they knew they would loose. Someone needs to find out if that is even possible, or legal. If it is illegal they need to be held accountable for it. If it is voted down it is out period end of story. They are rigging the game in their favor and refuse to just be defeated.

    1. avatar mark_anthony_78 says:

      We need to change voting rules so that everyone submits their vote before they know how anyone else voted. Then tally them all up simultaneously.

      Allowing (even if it’s illegal) a halt in the middle of a vote, or having politicians play games when they know a bill will pass/fail (i.e. try to save face by voting no on a losing bill even if they wanted to vote yes) is a disgrace.

      This way the bills will pass/fail on their merits and everyone’s actual position is known with no shenanigans.

      I’m embarrassed to live in NJ.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        I’m embarrassed to live in NJ.

        Don’t worry. That smell won’t stay on your clothes once you leave.

  11. avatar JSIII says:

    They pull this stuff in Illinois all the time…

  12. avatar Ing says:

    New Jersey is a national model for quite a few things…that nobody else wants. New Jersey isn’t a state, it’s a cautionary tale.

    1. avatar Evan says:

      Most blue states are cautionary tales.

  13. avatar Anon in CT says:

    Rules don’t apply to Democrats. Remember the Lautenberg-Torecelli swithcereroo ?

  14. avatar Saul Feldstein says:

    Representative democracy at work?

    1. avatar jwm says:

      Democrats at work. Big difference.

      1. avatar Mr Pierogie says:

        This is a Republic, not a democracy, even bigger difference.

    2. avatar mark_anthony_78 says:

      I guarantee you there were more people representing the NO side at this hearing and many other, but that hasn’t slowed them down yet.

  15. avatar ReadDude says:

    RE: legality of stopping bills in mid-vote:

    According to numerous sources, including Republican legislators opposed to the bill, the pulling of a bill mid-vote is a common procedure that is done much more often than casual observers may guess. It may not seem in order, but the rules appear to allow it or the rules are routinely ignored (and in the case of rules of order for a deliberative body, that makes them effectively moot since there is no legal recourse outside the body.)

    Just make’s the Whip’s job easier I suppose, no need to call for straw votes before getting to the floor for a vote, sigh…

    1. avatar mark_anthony_78 says:

      If the rules don’t allow it, and a controversial bill gets passed after the fact, I think that would make legal challenges much easier.

    2. avatar ReadDude says:

      This was only a committee vote, so it is not the final say. In addition, from a rules of order perspective, the internal rules of a legislative body can’t really be used as a grounds for legal challenges in most cases unless the abuse also breaks established law. If it were possible, you would see lawsuits everyday for things like the recent NY SAFE laws and the ACA (aka Obamacare) that were passed outside the proscribed process and in some cases directly violated rules of order (e.g., the reconciliation process used for Obamacare).

      The real question here is what drove some key Democrats into defecting on this vote? Was it just political in-fighting as many suspect between Rep. Cryan and Speaker Sweeney or is the sustained efforts of Pro-2A citizens swaying a couple key votes?

      Only time will tell. I am afraid it is political in-fighting which means the dread day is only delayed not stopped.

      1. avatar mark_anthony_78 says:

        Maybe some Democrats actually read the budget committee’s estimate as to the cost of this bill.

        The Cliff notes version: “Uhhhh…. we have no idea, but it’s gonna be VERY expensive.”

        Think how much it would cost to overhaul the entire DMV/Driver’s License system to link firearms ID cards in your state (I know, you don’t have FID cards, lucky bastards…)

        Think how much of a pain in the ass it’s going to be to have 250,000 people renew FID’s every year instead of just new applications (which are already overloading the systems).

        Even for just these reasons, the bill should be killed with fire.

        1. avatar ReadDude says:

          I hope you are right. Looking fiscally responsible during an election year, when the money will not buy them any votes outside the MVC employee Union may be the only thing to derail their desire for the cheap political points they get from this legislation.

  16. avatar Sammy says:

    Rules? What rules? Democrat don’t need to follow your stupid rules! They are the adults in the room, pay attention and STFU!!!!!

  17. avatar WA_2A says:

    Just like when they rushed the legislation for the NY SAFE act, completely ignored their constituents in Connecticut, covered up Fast and Furious, gun control advocates will ignore the law while imposing irrational and unreasonable rules on gun owners.

    Nothing has changed. This is the normal state of affairs in politics.

    Sad.

  18. avatar BobS says:

    Isn’t this what Harry Reid did when it was clear he was losing the vote in the US Senate?

    1. avatar mark_anthony_78 says:

      That vote was completed, just didn’t pass. Voting no on his own bill allows him the option to bring it up again, from what I understand.

      In this case, voting was cancelled half-way through.

  19. avatar Larry says:

    Oh come on guys. The turds in Trenton are just trying to impress their friends in Sacramento, Hartford, Albany and Annapolis.

  20. avatar MothaLova says:

    What a terrific statement by Scott Bach (which, if you didn’t already click on the link above, is available at http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.anjrpc.org/resource/resmgr/ds-email/bach_alps_testimony_06-06-13.pdf)

    I’ve been meaning to join his organization – the NJ Association of Rifle & Pistol Clubs – and I just did. Thanks for reminding me.

    https://anjrpc.site-ym.com/general/register_member_type.asp?

  21. avatar Chip says:

    Lovely Delicious Irony!

    Wah…. the Procedural Rules on a Filibuster made it so we couldn’t win. The Rules are Broken and need to be changed. (see the 92% support arguments)

    Wah… we are loosing when we follow the rules, we have to look through the rules and find some sort of something that will allow us to win. (see New Jersey)

    “They” truly believe they know better than everyone else and rules only work when they support their agenda and are working as hard as they can to be right about something. Anything.

  22. avatar gregolas says:

    “Rules!? We don’t need no stinking Rules!”

  23. avatar Aharon says:

    Those three look like actors in a bad B-movie.

    1. avatar MothaLova says:

      Except they’re not smart enough even for that. The woman in the background is Loretta Weinberg, majority leader of the state senate. In a public forum a few months ago, she announced candidly, “I don’t know a lot about guns. I have never fired a gun. I think I have never even handled a gun, except maybe a toy.” Naturally, she’s one of the the most vigorous advocates of every possible anti-gun regulation.

      Here’s a local letter about that forum and about the absolutely awful state of gun regulation and prosecution in NJ: http://teaneck.patch.com/articles/letter-gun-control-proposals-would-not-stop-shootings

  24. avatar Smaj says:

    Lawlessness. Utter lawlesness.

  25. avatar Kyle says:

    Does the New Jersey legislation also include a complete ban on AR-15s and similar rifles? If not, then consider yourselves in NJ lucky. It is sad to say, but in the wake of Newtown, if you’re in a lefty-liberal state and the gun control passed does not ban the AR-15 outright, you are getting off easy.

    1. avatar MothaLova says:

      The NJ legislature is passing bills a few at a time, so an outright ban on “assault rifles” wouldn’t surprise me. There are certainly are many who want it, along with a 10-round limit (we already have a 15-round limit).

  26. avatar Sixpack70 says:

    I think we need a one shot one kill rule. You get one shot to pass a bill. If it dies, it dies. If it is voted down, it’s dead. Then you can’t bring it back, even if you tweak the bill until the next legislative session. Even if a good bill is voted down, I would rather have no new laws than a bunch of half assed 3rd grader written pieces of garbage passed to punish good people.

  27. avatar Pat says:

    Dirty libtard pigs.

  28. avatar joecr says:

    Wow this reminded me about I Was A Communist For The FBI. I’m not old enough to have heard it when it was first broadcast, but I have listened to recordings of it.

  29. avatar Lori Adkins says:

    I’m a Democrat and find this behavior terrible and shameful. I’m sick of too many politicians on either side playing by their own rules. If you win…win honestly. If you lose, lose gracefully. Politicians are the biggest crybaby, drama-king/queen, self-centered people on the planet. Time to clean out the trash of both major parties.

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