We-the-People

Reader Maltwit writes:

Last Monday I was headed to a Manchester, New Hampshire firing range when I was pulled over by a member of our town’s police. After he informed me that he had clocked me at 45 in a 40, and I handed over my driver’s license and registration, he asked me what was in the bag I had placed on the floor of the front passenger side. (It is a small, old beat up, piece of carryon luggage which I use for my range bag.) After a hesitation of a second or two while thinking, I said as politely as I could, “With all due respect, I decline to answer.” Of course he countered with, “Do you have something to hide?” . . .

As well as I can remember (I was just a little nervous), I answered something like, “No sir, but if I was speeding, whatever is in the bag shouldn’t matter. Do you suspect I’m doing anything illegal?”

He didn’t answer but went back to his patrol car. I’m sure he was checking for outstanding warrants, but he seemed to be taking a lot more time than “normal”. I started thinking he was checking with the feds, talking to the Chief on how to handle me, or maybe calling for a canine unit to sniff the car. (It would have taken a while since our town is too dinky to have one, so we have to rent one from another town.)

After a few anxious minutes, he gave me back my papers and simply issued a warning for me to obey the speed limits with a “have a nice day” thrown in at the end.

I don’t know what made me stand up to him – maybe it was all of the recent news about the government treading on our 1st, 2nd and 4th Amendment rights – but, after this traffic stop, I was pumped! Still shaking a little, but pumped. (I did not do particularly well at the range after that.

I was thinking about this encounter for the next few days, so I came up with a business sized card (above) that I can hand out the next time I get stopped. The idea of the text came from a guy who likes to video police who are interacting with people, so I can’t take full credit for it. If you’d like to print your own, click here to download a .pdf version.

320 Responses to When It’s Time to Not Comply With the Police

  1. I’ve never given police consent to search any of my belongings, and never will. It’s none of their business whats in my car, bag, or whatever the case may be. In my county we have way too many police and almost no (actual) crime, so they like to hassle teenagers like me. I say if you’re gonna give me a hard time I’ll damn sure give you a hard time right back.

      • So your sheepish response is to be subservient to a pig by staying respectful? You’re an embarrassment to freedom. Using the power of the mi d against the local low IQ waffen SS to make him look stupid is the goal. If you’re respectful to a pig who is violating his oath and your rights, you’re part of the problem. War is war, no mercy.

        • Look, Jo. I’m respectful to everyone I meet. It’s a lifestyle. I prefer to treat others as I would like to be treated. I don’t treat all lawyers like they are second class people. Just as I wouldn’t treat one politician poorly just because most of them suck. I’m not part of the problem because I don’t treat mistreat cops just doing their jobs.

          Forgive me for assuming that you are racist as well as bigoted. I’m sure you don’t mind lumping all black people or brown people in with the stereotypes just as you do with police.

          Jo, you are hurting the cause of furthering gun rights if this is how you post. Smarten up lest you unwittingly become the poster child for why we need disarmament.

    • When I was in high school, on my way home at 1am after stealing a few street signs (hey I was a kid, young and with too much time), I was pulled over. I was dressed in black, etc. The cop wanted to search the car and the trunk (signs were in there with tools). I said heck no. He called a supervisor, and the two were pressuring me for maybe 30 minutes. I would not fold. I just kept saying No, and you don’t have the right and I don’t give permission.

      After the 45 minutes total, I was on my way. Do not ever allow something, they are not your friends, they are not looking for a beign reason. They are looking for something they can get you on.

      • In order for me to feel sympathy for someone being searched without just cause, it helps to actually be innocent. Theft of public property at the expense of your fellow citizens doesn’t fall into this category.

        • Sure, but the problem with defending liberty is that it often puts one in the position of having to defend undesirable characters. He was wrong to steal those signs but it would have been a worse offense for the police to violate his rights, as that would give them precedent to violate an innocent person’s rights.

        • Funny, but I didn’t notice your sympathy being requested. Save your self-righteousness for something more useful, Mmmmm?

      • You sir, were committing a crime. You were the one they were looking for, and were being paid to look for.
        You were not a law abiding citizen, so you can not claim to be inocent. Using your age as an excuse in non-exucsable.
        I have a few skunks in my closet too, but I don’t claim to be the perfect citizen or inocent either. You were a case of: the constitution protected the guilty.

        • “You were a case of: the constitution protected the guilty.”

          I’m not that guy, but my inalienable rights are a lot more important than a few street signs.

        • Thomas, you said:

          “I’m not that guy, but my inalienable rights are a lot more important than a few street signs.”

          Would you still feel that way after your son or daughter was killed in a car wreck after somebody stole a stop sign and a car came through, t-boning your son or daughter and killing them?

          I didn’t , and don’t advocate the giving up of, or the changing of any of our Constitution. I only pointed out the fact that, sometimes our constitutional protections also protect the bad guy.

      • I lived in an apartment in Tucson for a while some 20 years ago. A young child was kidnapped off the streets a few blocks away. Description by neighbors: large black guy in a white panel van. The police were going door to door in the neighborhood. At my place, they asked if I knew anything about it and I replied I didn’t. They asked which car was mine and I pointed out a dark blue mini-van. Then they asked to search my apartment. I told them no. They were dumb founded. I told them that if they had cause and came back with a search warrant, I’d have no problem but otherwise no and shut the door. After all, I’m not black and I don’t drive a white van – there was no reason to even ask to search my apartment. I half expected them to come back on general principle but they didn’t.

      • Would they not invoke “probable Cause”? They did on my stepson. When he asked for the warrent, they said “We can get one but its going to be much harder on you if we do!” He relented and presto, they came up with enough weed to put him in jail.

        • That’s why EVERYONE needs to record anyone in the Nazi state employment with a camera. As for the Tucson Pig Dept, they are trained to try intimidating, so capture on a few hidden cams and make them speak to you only in eye and earshot of those cams. You then upload to Bambuser or any other cloud service and wait for the ghetto lottery win. Then use your newly won resources against them even more. TPD has a high IQ limit for hires, use that info against them.

      • DD isn’t asking for your sympathy, just relating his experience. Hell, he was blatantly honest about what he was carrying in his car. That is the sign of a well brought up and overall good guy.

        You on the other hand must be the only one in the world that will “cast the first stone…” since you’re apparently perfect and without, or never sinned. “You look, but don’t see; you hear, but don’t listen.”

    • Meh… I receive cards like those on a regular basis, it’s no big deal. Typically the driver goes one step further and refuses to ID themselves or something. At that point I get them out of the car, put them in mine, and perform a legal search of the area around the drivers seat. I work in a state with a lot of MJ use, so I typically find something incriminating and now I have access to the entire car.

      Another good one is when a truther, free stater, etc. refuses to sign a cite. Now I take them into custody so they have to pay a bond on the ticket, and again, I have access to the entire vehicle before I tow it. That means locked containers, everything. You guys don’t seem to understand…the laws are so nebulous and complex that if the police want to stop you, they have a ton of reasons to do so, and if they want to search your car, the bar for PC is set ridiculously low (and in some types of searches, you don’t even need PC).

      After all this time, I have never had a search thrown out on 4th grounds. All my major arrests have come from car stops (at least those I made on patrol).

      I read someone else say that their rights are more important than whether or not I go home. He may hold that opinion, but in practice he is completely wrong. The entire SOP is designed to increase the odds I survive, even if it inconveniences you.

      Edited to add: those cards are not a magical talisman. It is assumed you don’t consent when we first make contact. We have usually decided how the stop is going to go on our initial approach, and you decide if it changes. If we need to get into your car, there are so many ways to do it that a business card isn’t going to change it.

      • Your contempt for “truthers” and patriots is as cute as your disregard for the spirit of the law.

        Please drive carefully and speak softly. You’re already carrying a big stick.

        • The funny thing about “patriots” is that everyone thinks that word describes them – left, right, and center. No matter what fringe belief they hold, they think they have true patriotism cornered and everyone else is wrong.

          I work a violent locality. Rape, murder, and torture are regular occurrences, particularly with the gangs that operate in my state. If I think getting in to your car will score me a rape kit that you were going to use on a teenage girl, or get me some meth, I am going to find a way in to your car. On the other hand, if I see you doing 45 in a 40…well, where I work, if you get stopped for that, we are just using it for PC.

          I stopped a guy with one of those cards one night, got a strange feeling about him, found a way in to his car, a found child porn in the trunk. Another time, same type of card, got in to the car, and found a k of meth. Not representative of everyone I have seen with the cards, but it certainly changed the way I see them. I even let a guy hold on to his card so he could recite it to the deputies at booking – they got a kick out of it.

          Yeah, maybe I’m cute, but that card is so sweet it is going to give me cavities.

      • Thanks for the heads-up. Your remarks just confirm the disgust so many Americans have for law enforcement these days. You bost you can do about anything you want to a citizen. The people need to take charge of this country and change most of the laws. I wouldn’t throw a rope to a cop that has fallen through the ice of a frozen lake. Have a great day.

        • Completely agree with you, Mountainman. Let the arrogant cop sink. A cop with his attitude is exactly why there are so many Americans who don’t respect or like LEOs anymore. He’s just a bully with a badge, and we all know what eventually happens to all bullies: they get the ass-kicking they deserve and they run away crying. This cop will too.

      • …you are the reason why so many people hate the police..and mistrust them so…dependably….it is a shame that someone with such a low IQ and self-esteem….it is a shame that people like you are targeted and hired by the leadership of our governments…they know they will get an un-thinking thug who will do anything they are directed to do…while under “orders”….it is no wonder that people hope you get hit by a car while enforcing your traffic laws and authority….your parents must be ashamed of you…..I hope they are already dead…so as to not be aware of what an idiot you turned out to be…

        Regards,

        RJ O’Guillory
        Author-
        Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

        • Ha!…..Well, let me explain….first of all…I prefer polite behavior….seems more reasonable to me…and it is disarming..to a degree….but most of all….after I retired from DoD after two decades as a Federally Protected Whistle-Blower…they sent the FBI out after me…because they did not like the tone or content of what I had written…soI am very careful…and…. I have a seizure disorder that rips my brain apart every six weeks or so..and so try to I concentrate on being as polite as possible…(and legal)..and I always finish off my comments with “Regards” and the name of my memoir (Webster Groves)…..all that helps to keep me calm…ha!
          …but just for you….

          eff’ off…!

          Ha!

          Just kidding….

          Regards,

          RJ O’Guillory
          Author-
          Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

        • This is exactly the kind of psychopath the government wants to impose its will on the people.

      • Dude, seriously…you’re PROUD of the fact that you think you’re immune to the law, and the rights (not privileges, RIGHTS) of others, you included, are less important to you than your SOP?

        I would absolutely love to see what your thoughts might be if the shoe were on the other foot, if it was your rights being stomped on by some one with such a low regard for the Constitution.

        You’re a disgrace to whatever badge you’re wearing, and a poster boy for all that is wrong and contemptible in modern law enforcement.

        I pity you, and the future you seem so hell-bent on creating.

        • I’m not proud of being “immune to the law”, because I am simply not immune. If I violate the Fourth during a search, the results of the search will be thrown out. The thing is, I have never had a search thrown out – and I have had a lot of my searches challenged in court because a good defense attorney will go for that immediately. They consider it the low-hanging fruit of a case. I don’t knock them for it, they wouldn’t be doing their jobs if they didn’t.

          And yeah, where SOP is concerned, if I think it will get me home safely it will take precedence and the rest will get sorted out later. I have seen the whole “rather be tried by twelve than carried by six” thing on this site several times – did you think that only goes one way? The same criminals that you are concerned about concern me too – the difference is that I often have to confront them rather than look the other way, and my frequent experience with them means that I am more familiar with the threat they pose. So, yeah, if you make the hair on the back of my neck stand up, I am going to treat you differently and you will probably get your feelings hurt. Again, my actions have been tested in court and have survived, so your argument is with the Fourth Amendment decisions handed down by the Supreme Court, not with me. After all, if you have access to a better tool, wouldn’t you use it?

          I know you don’t think I have any regard for the Constitution, but I do. You would be surprised by some of my opinions (constitutional carry, etc.) – I just don’t believe in sacred cows, and know that the Constitution isn’t what some of you seem to think it is. It was written by a bunch of rich guys (the 18th centuries 1%ers…) that were susceptible to the same shortcomings that you and I are. This “magical” constitutional republic that some of you believe in never existed. If you doubt that, go read about the Alien and Sedition Acts. I would have had a lot more leeway during the centuries and decades before now. Check out some of the stuff law enforcement did during our country’s westward expansion and ask yourself if you would rather live then than now.

          Please don’t pity me – I have access to loads of free donuts.

        • Your statement – “Typically the driver goes one step further and refuses to ID themselves or something. At that point I get them out of the car, put them in mine, and perform a legal search of the area around the drivers seat. I work in a state with a lot of MJ use, so I typically find something incriminating and now I have access to the entire car. ”

          The 4th Amendment – “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

          If you don’t see the contradiction (and your words show that you most likely do), then there’s a real serious problem here. You’ve basically admitted that you know it’s wrong, that what you’re doing is in violation of the 4th, but you do it anyway, because you know you’ll get away with it. How is this NOT thinking that you’re immune to the law? The Constitution is the highest Law we have, and when those entrusted with enforcing the law show such flagrant disregard, and the attitude of “So what if it’s wrong? I’m getting away with it”…I get very disappointed.

          If you know it’s wrong, but you do it anyway, what separates you from those you call criminals, breaking the law because they thought they could? A piece of metal on your shirt? And what makes your violation of the law right, and them wrong? That same piece of metal?

        • Whether you are truly who you claim you are or not, this is some masterful trolling, sir. To push so many buttons at once in such a cool-headed, polite way!

      • “At that point I get them out of the car, put them in mine, and perform a legal search of the area around the drivers seat.”

        What’s your basis for searching the area around the driver’s seat when the vehicle is unoccupied? It can’t be for your safety, since they driver is already in your cruiser. Shouldn’t your search be limited to plain view?

        I’ve heard police say they have the legal power to do this, but I’m unfamiliar with what Supreme Court precedent has found that this kind of unwarranted search is reasonable under the fourth amendment. (IANAL, perhaps obviously.)

        • he probably plants dope .what you do is when you get out of your car lock the door behind yourself.

      • “Bystander” – you sound like a real low IQ POS. A bully with a badge. The kind of cop nobody would grieve over if you were killed in the line of duty. I’m confident of one thing: sooner or later you will get what you deserve.

        • Drew, please don’t ever wish anyone even a rogue cop with a badge fetish killed. I know this guy is disgusting and should by all rights be in prison for clearly violating peoples Constitutional rights, but we should never stoop to the low low level of this criminal with a badge. We should look into finding out who this thug is and report him to his state police. I respect most LEO’s and many do serve and protect with honor.

      • @bystander:
        Wow man. Judging by the comments below, You’ve sure pissed a lot of people off.
        May I offer that, maybe, just maybe, you came across wrong.
        For all you others, the facts, as stated by bystander are correct. He must be working for a different state than I, because I would have to place a person under arrest before I could search their vehicle without a warrant. (search incident to arrest)
        But what I’d like you all to stop and think about is this; What do you pay us (police) to do? Pretty much, to catch the bad guys and to make our communities safer… ? Is that about right? We, in Law enforcement, like to say that our job is “to enforce the law”.
        When we stop a vehicle for a traffic violation, we are stopping that vehicle because it, in some way, broke the law. When we make the stop, we have no idea who is inside. Once, I stopped a guy for tailgaiting (he was doing 55mph on radar, in a 55mph zone, and was about 15′ behind another vehicle). I think you can all agree that this was a good stop. Upon investigation, I found that he had no DL, and had never had one. (he admitted it). I arrested him, and took him to jail. At the jail, they fingerprinted him, then came back to me and informed me that he had an outstanding murder warrant out of S. Carolina.
        So, again, I was just enforcing traffic law, but landed a murderous criminal. I was doing exactly what I get paid to do.
        When we make these traffic stops, we have no idea who is siting in that car. We have to treat everyone with suspicion until our susicions can be degraded. Please forgive us for that, but we do want to go home to our own families.
        Now, my Chief came to us one day at roll call, and instructed us all…. when we go in to any home, and they have guns present, to record the serial numbers and get that back to our investigative division. I have never followed that order. And, as far as I know, no one has. We do know the constitution, we do know the difference between lawful orders and unlawful orders, and we try to do what is right, and to remember what we are being paid for and what our responsibilities are to the citizens who hire us.
        Back to the original post. What bystander said, about all the things we can do, is true. But remember, we don’t use it against law abiding citizens. We use it against the bad guys. Sometimes, when we first make a traffic stop, we don’t know who we’re dealing with. Please bear with us, until we figure out who you are.

        • Thanks for the heads up. The problem with many of the dissenters is that they think the world should work the way they want it to, and it simply doesn’t and never will. Many of the people that complain about us abusing authority will later complain when we don’t go far enough. There is no fine line here – it is one way or the other with a smattering of gray. The gray is where we are when we stop someone and let them go with a warning, but in my experience, no stopping with a little questioning will result in a lot of criminals walking away.

          I’m in a detail now that virtually ensures every contact I make will be with real scum, and after a number of close calls, fights with people that are trying to kill me, and finding the sort of evidence that make people stay awake all night thinking, I came to one conclusion: they all started somewhere. A lot of these guys would have been off the streets if someone had just been nosy during a traffic stop. And yeah, a number of them have tried to hide behind these “Fourth Amendment” cards. The Fourth is the real deal, no doubt about it, but the commenters on this site don’t get to decide what it means, the Supreme Court does. And as long as I can stay within their limits, I intend to.

          They may not like me, and they like to pump up their cred by talking about what a bully I am, but the fact of the matter is I’m going to keep doing what I do because it simply works.

        • Not all police obey the rules. I had one incident many years ago in Houston. I was pulled over because I had long hair, a beard and was driving a Maverick Grabber. The car was sporty looking. The officer accused me of running a red light. This was false, the light had just turned yellow while I was in the intersection. I could tell by his attitude that if I argued too much, he would have yanked me out of the car and put me in jail. (After having me slip on the proverbial soap bar a few times.) He gave me a ticket for running the green light that he insisted was red. Then for traffic court he showed up an hour late and the judge was almost two hours late. The judge listened to the officer but found the ceiling too interesting to listen to me. No sooner had I finished than the judge said that I was guilty and for me to pay the fine. Before I had gotten my receipt there were three more behind me in the line, all from the same officer. I got the feeling that the judge just wanted to get the court docket cleared so he could go back home and to bed or whatever. He did not seem to care much about seeing justice done that night.

        • I am very concerned about “doing it because the supreme court says so…”

          Today, they approved DNA swabs on any arrest. If this was just to be used against bad guys, I wouldn’t care. But with our “out of control” federal government, who knows what it will be used for. And remember, it was a 5-4 vote. And who voted for it? The Obama supporters. Why? I can only assume that they had their directions from above. Why would Obama want this decision? I think we all know.

          I will only follow the supreme court decisions, as long as they don’t violate the constitution. I have, and will continue to study the Federalist Papers. They show the original intent and meaning of the wording in the Constitution. The Supreme court can not overwrite these papers. They can try. They can assert that they can. But We the People know better.

          I’m sure that there is a point in the near future, when I will have to resign. Already, my chief has given unlawful orders and I got away with not complying. He has not yet given his take on supporting the 2A. I fear that my time with this department is shortly coming to an end.

        • Mark,
          Kudos for recognizing that your integrity is worth more than your benefits and retirement. Is there no way for an honest cop to remain on the force and confront superiors who are actually lawbreakers? This is what you are referencing when you talk about unlawful orders. Bad guys is bad guys- suits and/or badges are irrelevant. Seems to me that a large part of our current mess is fostered by those who are charged with enforcing the law not applying the same standard when it concerns insiders, so to speak. Ideally, anyone wearing a badge should be an example for the rest, and not allowed to skate, especially with regard to the Rights of those whom they ostensibly serve. Note that I did not say that the recommended course would be easy. Still, if we are to have a snowball’s chance in Hell of avoiding another Civil War/Revolution, this is exactly what must be done. If it helps, I and many others have your six.
          Be Well…

        • Thanks for watching my six.

          Unfortunaly, another poster had it right; we (I) don’t stand up to the boss, because we are scared of loosing our jobs. I have bills to pay. I too, am a slave to the system. We all need to break out of the debt problem so that we are free to move about freely. I will stand up to the authorities after I turn in my resignation. In the meantime, I will not follow any unlawful orders. And I will remember who pays my paycheck. (the citizens who pay property taxes).
          I stop and talk to them a lot. One of their biggest concerns has been the illegal drivers (no DL) and those who don’t have insurance. When my consensual stops, with the good citizens give me a new direction, I will turn that way. Until then, I will continue hunting for illegal drivers, and those without insurance.

        • Mark, you sound like a good officer, but bystander has talked about the people he stops as idiots or fools, he said he lets people hold onto those cards just to ridicule them. That is not the actions of a good officer, if in Bystanders mind, he can think of us as lower than himself, it makes him able to justify abusing his power. I wanted to be an officer but had cancer years ago before laws protected people against discrimination, so I respect the men in blue, I however am tired of hearing of rogue officers going to extremes by beating people and getting away with it or even getting to the point of killing people that are cuffed and cannot give resistance. If he admits he has no problem of circumventing the law to try and enforce the law, it may only be a matter of time before his heart becomes so hardened that he becomes capable of doing someone great harm. Carrying that gun and having that power that comes with the badge, means officers have to do everything above board even more than lunch pail Joe.

      • You’re one of the tyrants we’ve been looking for. Just one sec’; there’s this tree we need watered.

        • I belive that tree takes its nutrients from two seperate sources. Careful what you wish for.

      • “Bystander” – You sound like the cop that stopped my son because the cop said he was thinking about running the red light (which he stopped at) – no, not kidding. My son has driven a big truck 48 states for some 30 years but this was a first. He came to a stop at the light (no problem, was going slow) and after starting up when it turned green, the cop (that had been following him for quite a ways) pulled him over. The cop demanded (in typical KGB language) his license, etc. My son asked why he was pulled over. The cop again demanded (in loud KGB language) and my son again asked. Finally, the cop said, “Because you were thinking about running the red light.” In light of the fact that ‘thought crimes’ aren’t on the books (yet), my son demanded that the supervisor be sent for, that he would have nothing else to say to this cop.

        Finally that happened. After the supervisor spoke with the cop, he came up to my son at his truck and asked his version. After he was told, he said the cop told him that my son had been speeding, ran the red light and was refusing the ticket. My son asked him to go look at the dash cam. After the supervisor did so, he apologized to my son and said that there would be disciplinary action taken, and sent him on his way. We figure it would just be a talking to but maybe it’d make the cop think twice before deciding he was the ‘thought’ police in the future.

        • I’ve never engaged in any “thought” policing, mostly because I am not a mind reader. That’s why I have to ask questions and search when I can.

      • What do you do if the driver refuses you to search the car, refuses to get out of the vehicle, and refuses to open the door or roll down the window? Someone like you seem to be would probably smash out the window and drag the person through all the broken glass.

        • I have never had a problem like that, but I am pretty good with words, so I seem to get my way.

          I will say, however, that refusing a lawful order will typically result in your being arrested. Once you are going to be arrested, I can use the amount of force necessary to overcome your resistance. I should point out that the term “lawful order” means what the statutes say, not what you would prefer it to mean. If the law is wrong, on the side of the road is not the place to discuss it – that is for the court room.

        • I noticed that officer Bystander has a lot to say in response to remarks but offer no opportunity to respond directly to him.
          We had a rogue patrolman here in Houston who thought himself to be the law. He didn’t like motorcycles, said they were too noisy and offended his sensitive ears. He stepped over the line several times too often and is now unhappily retired as I hear it. I think you too officer Bystander will one day become unhappily retired after you have stepped over the line once too often. You Gestapo types just can’t help yourselves. Too bad too, as y’all have the best job in the world! “To Protect and Serve”, to bad y’all lose sight of that too often.

      • If you really are a cop, you’re a disgusting POS and confirm the negative stereotype many law-abiding people have of cops. Good job.

        • Well, its pretty clear that most people still like us. I can’t remember the last time a voter approved bond failed in my state when that bond would pay for more cops.

        • Yup, still voting to approve those bonds. Hope springs eternal that one day we’ll get a whole class of GOOD cops!
          Ya got the Cajones to let someone respond directly officer Bystander?

      • what do you do if they lock their door after you take them out of the vehicle?

        With that attitude, I believe you would get laughed out of my locality. Public humiliation and insults will be standard, as they should be.

        regardless of what you may think, your job is to serve the public and uphold the constitution, even if the constitution makes your job more dangerous. Is the 4th amendment too inconvenient? become a f^cking lawyer.

        • Well, typically we control the door when we ask you to get out of the car and leave it propped open when we move you. Failing that, we ask you to leave the keys in the car. And failing that, we get the keys during a Terry search.

          In a perfect situation, you would refuse to get out, meaning you resisted a lawful order, meaning a search incident to arrest.

        • Excellent and I think I misinterpreted what you previously said (at 0253 im not very high speed mentally 😀

          I think it can be established that:

          1.) Privacy in a registered vehicle on a public road? sure /rolls eyes

          2.) Police officers are NOT supposed to be “cool” and “friendly”. They enforce the law period. Even stupid laws the officer is vehemently opposed to.

          3.) The 4th realistically isn’t as powerful as people think it is, especially on the road. As long as you are within supreme court rulings, then you are good to go. This reality bites, and the erosion of 4th amendment rights continues…

        • WLCE –

          1. Pretty much…Court decisions have essentially abrogated the Fourth as it applies to vehicles on a public road. That is, the Fourth applies, but there are so many exceptions that it is Swiss cheese. Now in your home it is very strong, and it really is your castle. It takes a lot to get us in there or any area of the home where the expectation of privacy is high (like a fenced off backyard).

          2a. Cool or not is subjective. There have been times when I thought I was helping someone out only to find I was making things harder on them. I let a kid go on a warning and got yelled at by their parent for not “teaching them responsibility.”

          2b. Enforcing the law…well, there is the spirit of the law and the letter of the law. I prefer the spirit because it gives me more latitude while keeping me within the guidelines established by legislature. There are laws passed to specifically fight gang activity- if I see you violate it, it could result in a warning – if I see a known gang affiliate violate, it will end with an arrest. You should approach every situation assuming the cop follows the strictest interpretation of the law. 9 times out of 10 you will find that he/she doesn’t and is more interested in real criminals.

          3. Like in #1, the Fourth is alive and well, just not so much in the car. When it comes to homes, some of the case law will leave your head spinning.

      • Yeah, all this crap with sovereign citizens and the people who for some reason think President Obama hands down orders directly to local LEO is garbage. When is the last time you walked up to a total strangers car at 2:00 am because they are suspect in a murder or whatever legal reason you have to stop them. When you do you can start to complain then

      • Wow, you are arrogant, you have made yourself clear that you find the Constitution and Bill of Rights are just a bother. I am a veteran and served my country to secure our freedoms, and before you say you are a vet, I can smell that one coming, you make a mockery of your country.

        So if I come into your town and I do not feel I should let you search my car, you will think I am a fool and you will circumvent the Constitution to your own end. You are no better than the thugs in D.C.

        Fortunately there are some police that take the oath serious unlike you do, finding us that still believe in individual freedom apparently from your point of view fools and should bow to the state.

        You are nothing but a bully with a badge and I pray and hope you loose that badge that you have tarnished with your contempt of your fellow man. PATHETIC.

      • You’re a dispicable sorry excuse for an American, which your words and past actions have demonstrated, you’re an enemy of the state and should be treated as such when combat operation commence and you’re hiding like the coward you are.
        This Combat Controller is waiting for pigs like you. The fact you’ve revealed your anazi tactics is evident you’re not too bright but then again you’re a drone pig cop.

      • Agreed

        That said, i disagree with the author. You could’ve had a time bomb in your bag. That would’ve made you speed and would have mattered :-p lol

        No, seriously…well done. Be respectful, but hassle the crap out of them with knowledge of your Rights. ESPECIALLY if he’s giving you crap during a speeding ticket…ridonc

        • Please !

          I keep hearing: “but hassle the crap out of them”

          Please don’t hassle the crap out of the cop. He is trying to catch the bad guy.
          Help him, to help you to get back on your way quickly and with little hassle as possible.
          That gives him more time to get back on the road and to commence looking for the bad guy.

    • Another test of the RINO Chris Christie. I suspect he will appoint someone to the now open US Senate seat who is a far left looney that will further damage our 2A rights.

      • That is what everyone is waiting for. Who will Cristy appoint? I’m sure he will be an Obama supporter and a Rino at best!

      • Christie is so in love with Obama, he’s probably already asked who Obama wants him to appoint.

    • Hallelujah. The old bastard is finally dead. I hope he’s roasting in hell right now. Now if the Lord God would just call Feinstein, Reid and Pelosi to account the world will be a much better place.

    • After he rots a bit in the dirt someone should extract the saltpeter from it and make some black powder.

      • The only good liberal is a …….. You fill in the rest. I already know what I would put there and let’s just say I now consider Frank Lautenberg a good liberal.

  2. [q]I’ve never given police consent to search any of my belongings,[/q]

    I have, when I was young, stupid, nervous and terrified of the big bad gun.

    I’ve grown up a bit.

  3. Being both a cop and a human being, I sympathize. With BOTH of you! You were just doing your thing (albeit outside of the rules; you WERE exceeding the posted limit) and, as such had little reason to be concerned about search and seizure issues.

    The cop was also just doing his thing; enforcing the law. Unfortunately, you were prolly the fifth person to give him shit that day; honestly, the only thing MOST cops want to do every day is 1) get an incredibly media-sexy bust SOME day, 2) NOT be called an asshole, NAZI, thug, etc. for just doing their job, and 3) go home to be with their family and TRY to forget that day of being hated.

    All that said, you were WELL within your right to NOT incriminate yourself. I’d do the same! I’m just glad you did it civilly and with (at least simulated) respect. And apparently the cop responded likewise.

    • “TRY to forget that day of being hated.”

      The best cure for that is to not pull someone over for doing 45 in a 40 zone.

      • 5 over is nothing to pull someone over for. That’s what I love about Nashua cops. Ten over on any road but Main St and they’ll pass you without batting an eye. You pull someone over for 5 ofer you can expect some attitude. And I’m notoriously friendy to cops on this blog.

      • 1 over is illegal. You don’t know what guidance the officers have received. Too many complaints about speeding in the neighborhood that reach the ears of the police/citizens review board, a local bicyclist who was hit by a speeding car, speeding on the edges of the school zones, etc….

        Patrols are routinely assigned zones and limits to enforce. In the military, it was not uncommon to be ORDERED to cite everyone 2 miles over in a school zone.

        The officer above gave a warning. Believe it or not, he could have just as easily written a ticket.

        • Yes, 1mph over is illegal. Yawn. But hating the cop that is that petty is not.

        • That’s easy. Cop pulls you over and explains why he is stopping you, i.e. extra enforcement in this area because of recent accidents, he asks for your help in making the zone safer, and he lets you go with a warning. That way you are now invested in solving the problem and the cop was helpful and cool, putting you in his debt. Most people will respect this and give the extra effort.

        • Don’t hate the cop until the cop show hate towards you. The first time you say no to him should get the hate started!

    • “go home to be with their family and TRY to forget that day of being hated.”

      They could be more vocal about not supporting shitty laws… and also not enforcing them.

      • An LEO’s duty is to enforce the laws, shitty or otherwise. To act as arbiter of a law’s righteousness is not his or her job. That is your job as a voter and constituent — to contact your representatives and tell them you want the law repealed.

        • “To act as arbiter of a law’s righteousness is not his or her job”

          – which is acutally called using your discretion. You can can and do have the ability to use it in most cases. You mean to tell me you enforce all the laws all the time? Going 45 in a 40 is not using discretion very wisely. When I ran traffic as a cop, I wouldn’t have dreamed of pulling someone for 5 over.

        • The original Brad. The officer did use discretion. He issued a courtesy warning for the speeding.

        • Yeah, that is EXACTLY the defense the guards of the German concentration camps made during the Nuremberg trials.

        • I’ve written one speeding ticket in four years on, and that was for fifteen over, and I tried for about five minutes to give the guy a warning. He argued his way into the ticket- if the warning doesn’t convince you that you need to change your ways, then that’s the only option I have left.

        • What a bunch of nonsense… Besides, why don’t cops give cops speeding tickets?

          Cops break the law ALL the time, ALL the time. Cognitive dissonance ???

        • And that is the problem when this country shifted from having “Peace Officers” to having “Law Enforcement Officers”. The LEOs are not there to help ensure peace in the community, they are there to enforce myriads of laws against ordinances, regulations, and other “mala prohibita” laws (literal translation: “wrong [as or because] prohibited”). This is a Latin phrase used in Law to refer to conduct that constitutes an unlawful act only by virtue of statute, as opposed to conduct evil in and of itself, or “malum in se”.

          We are now in the same position as Nazi Germany in the 1930s: Everything that is not forbidden is mandatory.

        • “To act as arbiter of a law’s righteousness is not his or her job.”
          Um, if the law is in excess or in contradiction of the Constitution, it is indeed your job. Remember your Oath? Interestingly, the Constitution prohibits creating any “privileged” class. Can we say “driving privilege”? Legally, “driving” is operating a vehicle for hire. You using your car to go about your private affairs is “traveling”, and not subject to legal oversight or regulation. There are many local, state, and federal court rulings to this effect. The same applies to any licensed or permitted activity. Period. Ignorance can be very expensive, folks…

        • That’s the problem. You feel you must obey anything the politicians tell you to do. That’s the same principle that made the holocaust possible.

          P.S. to anyone thinking Godwin’s law, you just may be a fascist sympathizer.

    • You weren’t present to determine how fast the vehicle was going. While I respect the police for the job that they do, I also maintain a suspicion of anyone who can make declarations about me without my being able to verify or challenge what the person said. And don’t tell me that going to court is an effective challenge unless you believe that the judge will ask the cop to prove that I was, in fact, speeding.

    • In my old age I have found that it’s just easier to do the limit and come to complete stops. I have had two tickets in the last 6 years or so. The last was about 3 or 4 years ago. When the officer came to the car I was polite and asked him why I was stopped. I was speeding. The moral of the story guys is to be polite and apologize for breaking the law because that’s exactly what I had done. He caught me fair and square. Truth be told I simply wasn’t paying attention to my driving. I was zoned out somewhere else and was on autopilot. Very dangerous. Afterwards he thanked me for the courtesy that I had shown him. So I totally sympathize with Officer M. Thanks for your service to your community.

    • Government employees do not deserve respect. They owe respect to the tax paying citizens who employ them.

      You going home to your family is less important than the rights of citizens.

      • And that attitude will land your ass in jail young man. I call the TSA Obama’s Gestapo but I respect God’s children who work for it. We are all worthy of respect if for no other reas\on than that.

        • Hi csmallo,
          at this point I don´t get the americans or at least some of them. You´re all are very respectfull to the millitary personell and firefighters, but when it comes to police officers that respect is gone.
          Police officers and millitary ones do both perform their jobs to protect the normal people. Not everyone wants to have a gun to shoot his way free if he has to. I can, with my different point of few, understand both side of this discussion.
          But when its comming to respect for the people who serve for their state/county/federal goverment I can´t understand the disrespect. Okay when i was younger I also didn´t have enough respect for the policemans over here. I called them “Scheiß Bullen” and Bullenschwein(bastard cops may eqal this words) this was the politest words i had. Now I grew a little bit older and can understand now that they are putting there lifes in danger for my safety and freedom. I may disagree with the poltical callings for them, but that has nothing to do with the policeman or soldiers they have to do their job. If i want to change the political callings i have to vote for another party or i have to go in the political business to change things in the direction i want. If they are brutal or don´t behave them self i can go to a district attorney and make a display, so that they have to deal with the consequences, if the district attorney won´t do his or hers job i can go to the media and they make a story and mostly than a actions is going to happen. This was for example 3 years ago when in Stuttgart the police didn´t play by the rules. There where a width range of all political parties and medias which let at the end to the dishonorably discharge of the chief of police there.
          Okay back to topic:
          My enetial question is still:
          Why do so most americans respect and love there troops but not the police? They deserve the same respect.
          P.S.: Sorry for the long post.

        • Mike,

          Many people lack respect for law enforcement officers because many law enforcement officers abuse their authority, many make inexcusable “mistakes”, and many violate laws themselves. There are countless examples of raids where the police raid the wrong home … at best causing serious damage to that wrong home and at worst injuring or killing the occupants of that wrong home. And look at the recent events in Los Angeles where police shot multiple times into two different trucks that did not even match the description of a vehicle that a suspect was driving. And somehow the police officers that do these things are almost never prosecuted or even disciplined at their job.

          Most citizens fail to realize that any government agent can really mess up their lives. Even more citizens fail to realize that government agents who misbehave are rarely, if ever, prosecuted. These two facts do not promote “good will” toward government agents.

        • Germanguy, there are many reasons people don’t like police, and the ones listed by uncommon sense are certainly valid. Many people also dislike police because we are the ones who enforce things like traffic laws- when I was younger, I got several speeding tickets and was angry about it until I became mature enough to understand I was driving like an idiot. Firefighters don’t give tickets, and military doesn’t operate inside the US, so they don’t do anything that directly causes resentment.

          I think that most of the people who post here have had few bad personal experiences with police, because they are more intelligent and more law abiding than the people I deal with on the street.

          Another reason people dislike police is that the actual danger measured by on the job death rate is lower than many other jobs that do not seem to request special respect for the level of danger, like logging, or Alaskan fishing. There is some difference in that when a logger or fisherman dies at work, it is almost always an accident, but when a police officer dies at work, it is often a deliberate attack by another person. The problem is that some police and some media sources seem to demand respect for the risk that is out of proportion to the actual risk.

          It is actually more dangerous measured by violent death rate to be a civilian in some parts of the US than to be a soldier in Afghanistan, but few people call for any special respect to the civilians. We’re strange people sometimes.

        • Hasdrubal, that americans can be strange from my point of few i noticed. But i try to understand the differences. I like you never the less I can´t agree with you´re political decisions at every time. But i try to understand and that´s often not that easy as it appears.
          But i guess this thing are vice versa for you if it comes to germans.

        • The difference between the police and the military is that our military exists to protect the people. The police exist to control the people.

          It’s not always that way, but in our day that’s how it is.

        • Skyler here in germany it is different. The respect for the police is much bigger than for the military.
          Since our troops are in afghanistan, they have to deal with much more disrespect, but also before that this wasn´t as big as in the states.
          For example: We had a huge discussion if it is right to go to Afghanistan. When we finally got there, many people abused the troops for being there. Politics cut even more the money and won´t get the troops the best support to have. I also disagree to sending them there, but i think after sending them anywhere we have to support them with the best things we have. If this things aren´t as good as we thought, we have to find better ones to help them. We all want that our fighting boys and girls come home safe. But it seems to be that this oppionen isn´t widespread along the public. Most germans think that our soldiers shouldn´t be there at first and that they are going for money reasons to this call. Infact soldiers get more money if they are abroad. But i think for the most of them that isn´t an issue at the first place, maybe for some but not for the mayority.

        • +1, my last monthly counseling described me as “gregarious” and my NCOER characterizes me as “polite and corteous without fail in any interactions [he] is involved in.”

          My attitude and how I interact with you when neither of use want to see each other are what determine whether or not I deserve your respect, not my employment.

        • Germanguy: ‘Once upon a time’ peace officers were enforcers of crimes against people and property. Crimes against society were added and became a big revenue producer so more and more are added all the time. As the numbers of laws climb, disrespect for them grows as does disrespect for the enforcers who are “just following orders”, many, way too gladly. Have you ever met anyone who voted for the 55 mph speed limit? Many vote against it with their right foot.
          Cops and firefighters get lumped together as government employees so firefighters are often extended the same “professional courtesy” as cops extend to each other – ‘I won’t give you a speeding ticket’ or ‘I won’t arrest you for beating your wife’ but that’s where the similarity ends. I am familiar with a lot of both and most of the firefighters are physically fit and the cops are physically phatt. These cops earn their own disrespect.
          Though the two do get lumped together, a general consideration is that firefighters are heroes and cops are zeroes

        • Ray,here in germany we don´t have speed limits at the autobahn (equals you´re highways). Every few years we have a polotician that will take us the right to drive as fast as we can at the autobahn. Than everytime the same procedure is going on: The media make a story about it, point the reasons of that politician and the people, the lobby for vehicel owners and drivers and the public roast this politician for the next few days or weeks. Than after this time, the party from this politician will have fallen in polls. After this the idea gets into the trash can and everyone is happy.
          So i thought america is a democraty, if really all americans want to change the speeding limits, why don´t they vote for the politicians that will do that? Here in Germany it works just fine and we learnd it from you.
          Now to you´re example how cops deal with each others. I think this is very wrong and i guess this incidents also happen her. Exactly we had some a while ago which were made public. after this these cops had to deal with consequences, but i dn´t remeber anymore what they where. I think it´s always going on, some kind of this “brotherhood” i can underst<and, because they deal sometimes with very dangerous situtaions and have to deal with each other on a way normal people can´t think of. But this doesn´t mean that i think in this situations you pointed out is it right to deal so. If an officer firefighter or whatever commits a crime, he or she shut be put under investigation. If he/she gets cleard from an independent(!!) board of aproval it is alright and fine, if not they should like all other people deal with the consequences.

      • Nice attitude. Everybody deserves to be respected intially. What you do afterwards either confrims it or akes it away. Just because someone works for a government, be it state, local or federal, does not make them a bad person. Their actions can determine that.

        • Nailed it. According to Paul McCain I’m a tattooed up punk who doesn’t deserve a job. Yet I’ve never once given attitude to a cop who treated me fairly and respectfully. Someone wants to piss on a cops boots for their choice of profession will incur their wrath… Just sayin. Csmallo you are just like matt. Good luck

      • csmallo; I have to take exception. To me, going home to my family is #1. Thtoughout my shift, I try very hard to follow the law and to NOT violate anyone’s constitutional rights. Some of the calls I go on are very complex. Please bear with me while I weed through the lies and the decievings while trying to get to the truth. Just because you, the tax paying citizen, pays my paycheck, does not mean that I automatically bow to you. You may be the criminal I am looking for. If you are not the criminal, rather the victim, or even the inocent bystander, then I thank you for your patience while I try to find the real bad guy.

    • I fail to see where he gave the officer “shit.” Assuming Dan has given a reasonably accurate account both he and the officer seemed respectful to each other.

      • Newsflash, cops giving out chicken sh!t tickets happens everyday. You guys are super efficient when it comes to taking our money, too bad you’re not as eager to help when you’re supposed to be doing your job. It’s really great that all these tough-guy wannabe thug cops who peaked in high school are given so much power over other people. Oh I’m sorry, I forgot to call you “sir” every 30 seconds, please don’t arrest me mister!

        • Woah. I got passed on the way home by an LA Sheriff, riding my SV1000S “crotch rocket” whilst doing 74-75 in a 65 zone. I’ve also griped my 33 mph is a 25 zone stop – not exactly a heinous violation. No tickets on those capers, and this guy didn’t get one either. I wouldn’t have stopped him in the first place unless I got a call from undercover units saying that he was dirty.

          But if you are upset with me so be it. I’m not a fan of chicks sh!t stops either. If you are stopped unfairly, file a complaint with the agency that stopped you.

        • Nothing against you per se, but please, don’t make me laugh with the “file a complaint” line. We both know those go straight to the nearest recycle bin. And I’m not even complaining (much) about getting pulled over, it’s every other interaction with the cops that proves they’re there for their own benefit and nothing more. Speaking from experience, it’s nothing but pleading and begging with them to actually do their job. They seem to get upset if you don’t bow down and kiss the ring each time you need something from them.

    • If you don’t want to be hated, quit your job and get an honest one.

      You are tax collectors with guns. People don’t like tax collectors.

    • Sorry but “invoking your rights” and “giving someone shit” are not synonymous. Likewise “invoking your rights” and “calling someone an asshole”. It’s an amazingly biased position you folks come from. The entitlement complex is not strongest with people on public assistance, it is strongest with politicians and law enforcement. All three of the things you listed are things that have nothing to do with the stop in question. You want to get a big bust fine, you don’t get that by searching every single receptacle you come across with the same level of expectation that you are about to “win” you get it by finding things more suspicious than the five mph above limit everyone does.

      InB4 “COPHATER” nonsense that proves my point.

    • ) NOT be called an asshole, NAZI, thug, etc. for just doing their job

      Call me crazy, but getting a job where your job title isn’t “armed thug” would be a good place to start there. You don’t get to run around with a gun screaming “FOLLOW MY ARBITRARY RULES OR I WILL MURDER YOU!” and not expect to be called an asshole or worse.

  4. Sounds reasonable to me. Though the card may unecessarily associate you with groups that are (fairly or not) on the government’s “list”. It shouldn’t be hard to remember that you don’t need to answer questions, and the officer can ask to look in your car, but you can politely decline.

    Also keep in mind that officers are human beings. They are/can be subject to performance metrics that incentivize fishing expeditions, or might have just watched too much CSI, etc. and are thinking that if they can sweet-talk you into opening your trunk there just might be drugs or a body in there. Stand up for yourself. It’s okay.

    • Yeah, I think it would be less trouble to just decline permission for a search, and decline to answer questions when asked. Whipping out a pre-printed card that says all that is something that most cops are going to interpret as “troublemaker”.

  5. Maltwit, good for you. It was probably better you were not honest and told him the truth, you probably would have been put through a lot of problems.

  6. I don’t think you should give the officer a card like that. Just don’t answer any questions beyond identifying yourself. Don’t say where you were or where you are going. Anything you say can be used against you, so don’t say anything.

    If he thinks you were drinking, he will use boilerplate phrases in his report about slurred speech. If you say nothing, he won’t be able to say that. If you have on sun glasses then he won’t be able to talk about glassy or bloodshot eyes.

    The cop will likely have a camera and microphone recording the encounter so don’t say anything, if you can avoid it. Mutely hand him your paperwork.

    What kind of jerk stops you for doing 45 in a 40 zone? He’s not your friend, no need to chit chat. He was on a fishing expedition. The problem is that the plethora of laws gives them the ability to use any excuse to stop you, or they can just make something up.

    • I am not sure where you are, but MANY towns in CT will stop you for 45 in a 40 and do this every year when school starts to slow people down around school areas where we have a lot of kids who walk home from school. It is always just a warning and not a ticket. After school is out for summer, the speed traps go too.

      Then, there is the other side where cops are profiling or looking for someone and they use the speed limit as a way to stop you. I have a friend who is Hispanic and drives a Honda beater to work and has been stopped more times than I care to listen, and HE IS a LEO. He was simply being profiled. That, is just wrong.

      • All of you, who talk like you are scared of being profiled, try this;
        Stop several of your local PD. Ask them, “… if you were to profile the ‘BAD GUY’, what would he look like?”. See how they describe the bad guy. Now, go out and buy the opposite. Buy the opposite type car. Wear the opposite type clothes. Do the opposite type things. Hang around the opposite type neighborhood and friends…. Get the picture?
        The Po Po are not looking for you, if you are the good law abiding citizen. They are looking for the bad guy. Stop looking like the bad guy !!!!

    • And this may be the best explanation of why so many of us are suspicious and concerned when we must interact with police – any even innocent comment or admission or permission may give the police an opportunity to embroil you in a complicated and protracted interaction with the justice system that law-abiding and generally honest citizens who have day to day jobs to attend to really cannot afford to deal with. Better to just be quiet and let the officer deal strictly with the purpose of the original reason he detained you than to inadvertently give him something else to confront you with.

      I may not flash this card as a first response, but if the officer is persistent I will definitely produce it rather than argue with him/her.

  7. Growing up, I knew pretty much all of the LEOs in my hometown – my dad was a former cop, the county sheriff’s wife was my 5th grade teacher, and the city PD chief was married to my elementary school principal. During my younger, more stupid days, I did have a run-in or two with the law, but we were all consistently friendly and polite to each other in every encounter, and they always ended with both of us going about our business with no fuss.

    I tried that approach the first time I got stopped in my current residence, and it was a night and day difference. I was treated like a felon and searched under the flimsiest excuse for probable cause I had ever heard. I only submitted to it because of my past experience conditioning me to expect interaction with police to be mutually respectful, but that won’t be happening again.

    I don’t know if it’s just a geographical difference or a sign of the times, but I know I won’t be dealing with the local cops the same way I used to. It’s a shame – I have a lot of police in my family, and I genuinely WANT to be respectful and cooperative, but that is earned, and the local LEOs have consistently failed to do so.

  8. Good for you. Just remember guys you can be respectful and non-conforming at the same time.

    Respect does not always mean doing exactly what is asked of you.

    • Projecting polite confidence is a key element to any encounter with a LEO.

      If you are able to keep your wits about you and politely interact as Maltwit did; if you are doing nothing wrong, there should be no issue. Most LEOs expect people to volunteer answers to their questions because that is the normal outcome with most contacts, even with bad actors, except that the bad actors always lie – they just can’t help it. So when the LEO receives push back from what s/he considers a routine question (at least in my day), they are immediately extra alert and suspicious whether justified or not. Because of this, the LEO will take time to thoroughly evaluate and confirm the best course of action.

      Both you and the patrolman learned something that day. Good for you Mr. Maltwit!

  9. Here is one of my favorites:

    Officer: “Do you have any weapons in your vehicle?”

    Me: “There are no illegal weapons in my vehicle.”

    The look on their faces for a split second is worth it. Its like they short circuit for a moment trying to decipher what I just said. Catches em off guard on rare occasion it has been used.

    • Come to CT, if you are driving a car registered to you and you are a gun owner you can expect that question at every stop regardless of how minor the situation.

  10. Do you have a CCP? In most states having a gun inside a bag that is not clearly identifiable from the outside as a gun storage bag renders it concealed, even if it is not carried directly on your person. So if no CCP you may have gotten in trouble if he pressed the issue.

    I say this because a lot of people who do not have CCPs do not really understand the law regarding transporting weapons without a CCP and wind up running afoul of the law by ignorance.

    I always recomend people whom I help find and purchase the right first gun for them that they get a CCP as soon as possible even if they never plan to carry. Having a CCP protects you from accidentaly beaking many gun laws when it comes to transporting guns.

    If you can not get a CCP (slave stater) or do not want a CCP for some reason, then be sure you absolutely know the laws for transporting your guns, especially if you are a slave stater as they tend to have harsher transport laws as well. For example in may states having in an unmarked bag is a no-no as is having it within reach of the driver.

    • I am sure what you are saying is true, but that changes from state to state as to what is or is not the proper way to transport.

      • Actually, I was being more vague than necessary. It is federal law that if you are transporting a weapon it be unloaded and locked in either the trunk or a suitable container which is then placed outside the reach of the driver and if possible any passengers. The glove box does not count, even if it is lockable (because it is not outside the reach of the driver).

        It is ossible there is a state that gets around that, and since I did not wish to get into a shouting match over it I was more vague than I should have been. After seeing youpost I relieze this may lead to some dismissing my advice, which is a really bad ideal, and so i am now clarifying.

        Many states (Most I know of anyhow) further require that if it is not in the trunk it must be visible from a window and the containor it is in must be clearly marked, like say the case most handguns come in these days. Some states dictate that the ammo must be stored seperate from the gun and must not be in magazines.

        Of course in most states that allow CC a CCP protects you from all of this as you can have a gun on your hip and another under the seat and not be afoul of the law.

        Bottom line, know your states laws regarding transportation, there is a great webesite for this, here is a link:

        http://www.handgunlaw.us/

        • Sorry that i asked, but what is a slave stater? I can´t find it i a dictionary. 🙂

        • germanguy,

          There are about 10 states with harsh gun control laws. People who promote gun rights refer to those 10 states as “slave states”. The idea is that the people in those 10 states are “slaves” because there are so many laws that make you a criminal for simply owning or carrying firearms. The people in the other 40 states are not slaves — they are free to have and carry (keep and bear) firearms with minimal laws.

          So a “slave stater” is a person who lives in a “slave state”.

        • Even with a CC or CCP, you are subject to state law. In CT, for instance, if you are carrying it, it has to be under your control. Meaning, keeping it under the seat is a no. I am sure that in other states you can keep it however way you want, and other do allow in the console or glove box.

          All I am saying is it depends and you cannot make generalized statements on anything dealing with gun laws.

    • Very true all above.

      Each jurisdiction may have slightly different restrictions. CA for example requires all non-CCW handguns be transported unloaded in a locked container seperate from any ammunition. As long as they are in a locked container or locked trunk (NOT the glove box or center console) you are good. It is best to transport in a trunk or rear portion of the passenger compartment. Out of sight, out of view, out of reach in this state is best to secure a firearm and avoid any issues.

      Then, if you are prone to being pulled over, if asked, you can answer with conficence “I have no illegal weapons in my vehicle”, or confidently cross inquire with “What makes you think I have weapons on board? Why did you say you were stopping me?” Just be polite and modest in behavior, attitude, or spirit; not arrogant or challenging. And don’t volunteer any information other than required licensing and insurance docs. You never know…

      • Similar rules also apply to AR’s in CA; common rifles and shotguns currently differ only in that they don’t have to be in a locked container.

    • I agree. While I always carry now, the original reason I got my HCP (handgun carry permit) was to avoid any problems with transport in my home state.

      • It’s a sad commentary on how far WE have allowed our original Rights to be diminished. Hundreds of anti-carry laws that “infringe” on our personal rights.
        I have seen a .22 pistol taken from a Navy Vet in 1966 by the newly formed ATF.
        Legally registered since 1958. Found 2 years later in a cache’ of guns the Black Panthers had in CA.
        Tyranny started before Obama, he has just expedited the end of America.

  11. I’m probably going to get flamed for this, but here goes.
    I’m a retired cop.
    I’m a left coaster. When I read about crooked cops, it just makes my skin crawl.
    It makes me really angry. And when folks lump all cops into that category, it pisses me off even more. That bigotry raising it’s ugly head is the same as being racist, homophobic, hoplophobic, or what ever kind of phobic you can dream up.
    All that to say, I completely agree with this article.
    I had huge amounts of respect with folks I pulled over who would state things like this.

    • While I agree that bigotry against cops is bigotry, it isn’t the same as bigotry against blacks, and it isn’t the same as bigotry against gays (which are not the same, either).

      I admire ‘good’ cops, and I’ve been guilty of that type of bigotry before, and I probably will again, but there’s really only one group of people that can arrest me, violate my civil rights, take away my freedom and destroy my life, the lie and get away with it. In my experience many cops won’t hesitate to do just that. Part of it is the structure of our legal system, the things we choose to define as crime and our willingness to let unions take over, but part of it does lie with every single cop, even the good ones, who allow the blue code of silence to stand.

      My 2 cents. Nothing personal against you… I’m sure you’re a good guy.

      • I couldn’t have said it better. No, really. I couldn’t.

        It’s not that we hate cops. It’s just that we have no reason to trust them.

        • “It’s not that we hate cops. It’s just that we have no reason to trust them.

          As a general rule, that is a good perspective to keep in mind. From one who was in the club.

        • Guys, I really appreciate what you said.
          I took heat within my probationary period when I reported a senior guy for backhanding a prisoner in cuffs.
          I guess I’m an anomaly. I knew/know what is right and what is wrong.
          To me, the thin blue line means good versus evil, not cops versus citizens.

        • Hi, may I ask you a question:
          Why don´t you trust the cops?
          Here in germany we also have unpolite and stupid cops. We have not the best police in the world, but most of the time you can trust them. If you need help you will get it. For example you as a tourist from america can go to a cop here and ask where is this building or thing. They will answer you in english and are very polite. Okay the english depends on the age of the cop. A younger one would probably speak a better english than an older one. But they will always try. If you´re pulled over they have to proof to you that you where speeding or that they have a real good other reason.In this case they will show you a video or a photo where you and you´re car can be identified. If a lamp is broken they will show it to you. Okay now here comes the big difference i was told: You have to pay the penance directly to the cop. I have heard that isn´t the case in the us
          Okay i think i have enough explained.

        • germanguy,

          The main difference is between U.S. and German culture. For the most part, German people follow all rules at all times. It sounds like German police do the same. Many people in the U.S., however, do not like to follow rules and that includes many police officers.

          There is a little bit more to the explanation, but that is a good start.

        • uncommon_sense,
          may you´re impression from germany isn´t this good as you think. We also don´t give much abput some rules. This kind of crimes aare.., hm may you would call it in english gentleman crimes. These are things where the public think which arenßt so bad at all. Also some police members will not get you for these kin of stuff, some will.
          Also german police officers don´t follow the rules and make big mistakes. We are all just humans and not some kind of robots who are always perfekt (Sorry for the german fraise maybe you get it. If not asked.)
          We had in the last years some very big incidents, where the police get way to far of the reservation. But we have a for this kind of things a very good media, they are allways watching close. Maybe this comes from our history, i don´t know but i´m happy that we have them watching. Also the german public is sensitive if it comes to the topic where the police or the so called Verfasungsschutz,puh how to explain this word, is going out of there boundings. Okay here the explanation for Verfassungsschutz: This is an organisation for protecting the constitution. They have to watch extremists of all kinds from Nazis to Islamic groups. Most of the time they aren´t allowed to share theire knowledge with the police, because we have a law that puts a big line between police and intelligence. Only in very striked boundarys they are allowd to share things. Let me put it this way: You´re FBI is police and intelegince in one institution. Here in germany we have a split between the BKA ( our federal police) and the Verfassungsschutz (intelligence for domestic things). In the last years we had some incidents where this lines where washed out by them. The german public and media protested against it.

        • Germanguy – My sister spend a semester abroad in Amsterdam, and my other sister joined her for a week to tour some of Europe. When they were in Germany they got pulled over. The police, who were indeed very polite, explained that things in Germany are different than they are in America; most notably they informed her that they pulled her over solely because the car had been rented in Amsterdam. Furthermore, they asked if she (the one who was studying abroad) had brought and marijuana from Amsterdam (apparently there’s some kind of trafficking problem). She hadn’t, but they still proceeded to search the car, and then brought her into the nearest police station, with my other sister following in the car, for some kind of on the spot drug test. She passed and was released.

          To me, this is terrifying. Like I said, she told me the cops were very polite throughout, but my sisters are very straight laced and they were both horrified by the ordeal. I understand the need to respect other cultures, and I truly believe in “when in Rome”, but I truly hope nothing even remotely close to that is ever acceptable in America. Particularly given our government’s history of abuses of power. In fact, I think you guys may have some of that in your past as well.

          There’s nothing wrong with respect for cops, but I think unquestioning reverence for authority is one of the most dangerous things on Earth.

        • BlinkyPete,
          okay what haoppened to you´re sister is very strange. Thats also for me a first timer.
          Yes, there is a big trafficking problem. Because in the Netherlands it is legal to poses and use marijuana, in Germany not. ( okay when you have a few grams they don´t put charges, depends on the state how much exactly) Yes the police can ask you if you have something illegal in you´re car but they aren´t allowed to search, if they don´t have a good reason to do so. Only the custom agency (Zoll) is allowed (at the borders and a few kilimoters from them) to search you´re car with out any reason. The police is only allowed so, if you are suspect under an ongoing investigation.A suspect is defind by german law as following: A suspect is anybody suspected that he or she has concret committed a crime.That means there are enough evidence, that this person has comitted a specific crime. In the example with you´re sister: That she is actual a drug smuggler.
          Only the custom angency is allowed to search the car without this reason.
          Now let us come to the sample you´re sister had to give. In this case it is very easy: She could have denyed it. She don´t have to give one. In germany you don´t have to do anything that can convict you for a crime. Okay the police might line that they way that you´re now more suspicuss, but i gues in the us it isn´t different. Normaly they perform these kinds of tests direct at the Autobahn or street you´re driving. By women there will be always performing a woman the test, or watch it in case of a urin sample. By men a men will do this job. Only if you´re driving strange, in curve lines or so, they are allowed to do some tests, but for more then on the spot sweat, urin or breath test, they need a court order and the performance have to be done by a medical doctor a so called Amtsarzt (medical officer if google translator is right) with a special license.
          Though normaly this things you described shouldn´t have happened.
          May you can ask you´re sister for the exact circumstances. If the circumstances are strange, may she should go to you´re embassy and ask them for advice. More i can´t they because i´m not a lawyer, i´m studying computer science, but law is too high for me.

        • While there may be specific laws protecting people from unwarranted search or detention, it’s ultimately up to the police to obey those limitations. It isn’t reasonable to expect to early twenties girls to understand the nuances of German law, and when a cop specifically says “we have the right to do this” it’s reasonable that a foreigner wouldn’t argue.

          That’s not unique to Germany… there are abuses of power everywhere. There are also people that unquestioningly respect authority everywhere. These comments also don’t likely accurately reflect the sentiments among many Americans. Most rank and file Republicans are generally very pro-cop (and most of the cops I know are rank and file republicans). These forums seem to have a disproportionate number of Libertarian leaning folks, from moderate ones to the looney wingbats, far-righters, purple democrats and everything in between. In short, folks that don’t generally trust authority.

        • BlinkyPete, you´re right that you´re sister can´t know. I also didn´t know till i looked for it yesterday, but i don´t have a car so i didn´t care. Maybe you´re sister drove suspuicios maye not, we both don´t know. Also the officer can nearly say to every driving typ that is suspicios for him/her.
          But that doesn´t mean that this officers had expanded the law and this isn´t right.
          But my hole point here was, if you deal with respect to another human you should get this respect back. Here in germany we have a saying: “Wie es in den Wald hinein schallt, so schallt es heraus.” That means that you should talk and behave to anybody as like as you would like to get treated. Mostly we all would like to get treated with respect and politness. So we should treat other people just like this. In most of the times you will get it back the same way.
          Yes this forum has a lot of opinions here and that´s why i like it reading here. So i can get a really wide impression of many ( not all) americans. I also read in more leftwinged blogs and forums, only to get the whole picture and to get my own opinion. We have also a very good blog that explains america. This blog is writen by an american, who is married to “the most beautiful german woman” as he calls his wife. He originaly comes from Arizona ( exactly the county with the sherif that puts his criminals in pink underwear when they are in jail) He trys to explain lot of things from a neutral point of few. Mostly this works and than the reader can go out in the internet and read further things if he wants to. I guess this is a good thing to get a better understanding for each other.
          Ok gun control and other 2nd amendment he doesn´t has disscussed yet. But he explained alot of law making and other stuff and that helped me alot to get a better inside.

      • Bigotry is bigotry my fellow granite stater. Regardless of one’s reasoning or thought process they are still lumping everyone in a certain group together. Just like what is happening to gun owners.

        • That’s completely fair, but I’d still maintain that skin color is unique. It isn’t a uniform that can be taken off, it isn’t a decision that can be made or changed (except for Michael Jackson), and in this country it carries a great deal of historical and cultural baggage (and that’s not just black people I’m talking about). It’s bigotry, but it still isn’t the same. Still, I completely understand why it would piss the OP off. It must feel like a Michael Moore trying to make all gun owners look like paranoid, racist hicks.

    • I think it is important understand the difference between bigotry and prejudice. A bigot hates without other consideration EVERY member of a class or group, and cannot be dissuaded from that view. Prejudice only means that based on observable data one makes an initial judgment as to probable characteristics or responses. When you see a really big cat on the street with orange and black stripes you can be forgiven your prejudice that this guy might eat you if you do not take precautions. That’s prejudice. If you simply shoot at every cat you see, regardless of size or color, etc., that’s bigotry.

      Police officers tend to be recognizable by their uniforms. Some police officers can and will eat you alive and destroy your life for something you might have considered innocuous or even legal. (I reference here the man who was leaving – moving out of – New Jersey and was still arrested for transporting his weapons illegally.) For that reason it is only wise to be prejudiced until the officer leaves without biting your head off or otherwise showing dangerous intent.

  12. I support what you told the officer, but am a little less enthusiastic about the card. Have to think about it for a while. As a retired LEO, the card combined with the bag out in the open, could sound like you were daring him. It may work out in the end, but is the loss of a good part of your day worth it ? Not to me. Low profile is always better.

    Here’s a suggestion, though – put you range bag in the truck. Plain view can be an exception to the need for a search warrant. Some states require that for transport, and not giving any officer an obvious reason to ask further questions cuts that off at the pass.

    • So if I fill my NRA logo bag with dirty underwear gym socks I can put that on the passenger seat and watch the officer have a go at it? Awesome.

      • Any cop that has searched homeless person is not going to be impressed by dirty underwear and gym socks. You’ll have to do better than that.

        • bystander, no shit LOL

          especially since homeless people will soil themselves if they resist.

          Its a law as fundamental as gravity. The homeless will soil themselves when they are non-compliant. Its a given.

  13. Malwit – what town? I’m in Merrimack (and relatively new to NH), and the cops here seem alright. Just curious.

    • I’ve traveled a lot in NH and have a NH license. The Merrimack cops seem okay. The Keene cops are not. YMMV.

      • Small town cops around here are assholes. I grew up in Hollis. I got stopped for doing 23 over(fair enough)’but they searched me because my car smelled like cigarette smoke(not fair enough) the cop asked me if I smoke weed. I said no but I had tried it. He retorted with “well ya? I don’t think you ever stopped.” I shrugged my shoulders and didn’t answer him. Small town cops are bored. Merrimack is not such a small town so they are likely better. Nashua cops are great, same with Manchester. Maltwit I’m curious as well about which town.

        • That’s almost always the rule of thumb, that small town cops are assholes. I grew up in a tiny, rural, middle upper class town with roughly zero crime – we had 20 cops. How could they not get bored?

        • Simple enough Blinky,

          20 cops, corrupt town officials (including judge): makes for a great speed trap to fund everybody’s paychecks.

          There have been a few Oklahoma small towns that have been barred from patrolling interstates (and some even highways) just because writing tickets were the bread and butter of the city. (as in better than 1/2 the revenue.)

        • I don’t remember the name of the town, but I do remember reading a series of articles in Car and Driver (I believe from John Phillips) about one of those towns. The cops and judge were all related. It was a racket, and eventually the state shut them down.

          I recently beat a ticket in MA in appellate court, and one of my arguments was based on this. I don’t recall the specific Supreme Court case, but municipalities cannot set speed limits solely to derive revenue, nor can they be set without a traffic engineering study (the latter only applies to municipalities that have accepted federal funding for road construction). Food for thought.

      • You must be familiar with Free Keene, right Ralph? They pop up on NES from time to time and I feel like I remember you being there occasionally. I have a few sympathetic friends over there and they don’t care for the police in that town at all. That said, their activities seem to be intended to instigate police responses at times.

        • I must be thinking of someone else then… there are a few lawyers there. Haven’t been on in a long while.

    • Londonderry.

      I moved from Boston almost 40 years ago. The police up here tend to be polite and respectful. Ordinarily the biggest problem in Londonderry are the skateboard miscreants and run away farm animals.

      To be fair, I was stopped in a “school zone” (technically), but the school is about 500 feet on a road that runs perpendicular to the street I was driving on. Since it was about 10 a.m., I figured the kids should have been in class. But, obviously the cop didn’t feel the same as I did.

      I don’t blame the policeman, he was doing his job.

      In retrospect, when he called in my license and registration, he may have spoken to the Chief who issued my CCW. It might have been that the patrolman had figured it out that my beater luggage contained my pistol and since I had passed the NICS and I was respectful of him that I was probably one of the good guys.

      FWIW: I was in Merrimack this afternoon checking out the Merrimack Firearms store. Small shop but friendly people.

  14. In Ohio, if we have our CCW…by law we have to tell the police if we’re carrying during any interaction…such as being pulled over. A gun in a bag within reach is considered carrying…

        • I’m not sure I understand that. The 1st Amendment also protects your right to not speak. If you volunteer the information, you may be incriminating yourself in something you don’t even know about. You should go to YouTube and watch “Never talk to the police”.

        • Robin, that would be the Fifth amendment. Also, there’s no such thing as an absolute right, and only one Supreme Court Justice that I’m aware of has ever taken a literalistic view of the Constitution, and that was Hugo Black and even he flip flopped on some issues pertaining to “Congress shall make no law”.

    • Not true in Fla. Not required to tell.
      However, some cops don’t seem to know that part of the law. I have heard them yell at people for not “letting them know”. But I have never seen it go beyond yelling unless the person was actually breaking the law. Then an arrest would certainly follow.
      That being said, I totally disagree with yelling at a law abiding citizen. It makes them feel like sh*t, for no good reason. All I can say is that some cops are scared of getting shot. But that is no reason to violate anyones rights. If they are that scared of guns, they are in the wrong profession.

  15. The first two times I got pulled over, the cops wanted to search my car for drugs. Strangely enough, I had long hair both times.

    The first time, I was just nervous since I’d never been pulled before. Expired tags. I’d reregistered them but had forgotten to put the sticker on. Gave consent to the search because I didn’t know better. Ended up spending a half an hour sitting around in front of my college while she went through my car. Really irritating since I was going to be on time for my first class for once until the lights flashes.

    Second time, was on my way to visit a friend at another college a few hours away. Passed by some couple sheriffs deputies who’d pulled someone over. Moved over in my line, but didn’t actually switch lanes, which you need to do by law here. Second deputy in a K9 car came and pulled me. Legit, I just. However, when he gave me the usual “illegal drugs or weapons” shpiel, I looked up and to the right for a second since I had my regular (prescribed) medication with me. Courtesy of some bogus training some jackass in the 80s and 90s hocked around to LEOs convincing them they are walking lie detectors (which was proven to give them no improvement over a regular Joe, but made them super absurdly confident in their result), he immediately started bombarding me with questions and asked if his dog could sniff the car. Oh, the college town also had a major rep for pot. Anyway, being young and stupid, I consented. Doggie sniff sniff, finds nothing. Dude still keeps me there for another half an hour, question after question (maybe a friend borrowed the car and left a bud, it was just one time, blah blah blah). Finally getting tired of standing on the side of a highway as the sun went down, I told him that I was screwed up enough as it is (see medication) and I didn’t need any help from dope. He finally let me go after giving a bunch of BS warning tickets (“cracked windshield” when the crack was nowhere near my sight line, etc. etc.).

    Since then, I’ve gotten stopped twice with no requests for searches. I also cut my hair. No connection, I’m sure. Anyway, moral of the story: be polite, but firmly say no.

  16. I have been reading through these comments and some of them just couldnt go un answered. The one that really got me very pissed off was someone saying that they are government employees owe respect to the civilian not the other way around. While I hope that this was just poor word choice that is a good way to make yourself sound like an a**hole. Simple fact is people should respect each other. It doesnt matter what position anyone is in or what side of the law you are on. Secondly cops catch shit all day and a lot of times for no reason. Yes there are bad cops out there. There are also bad everything else in every job on the planet. So that cop who pulled you over for doing 45 in a 40 was within his right to do so. Plain and simple you were breaking the law. You knew it was a 40 and went 45. I too speed honestly a lot of times more and faster than I should. But I take responsibility for my actions. I broke the law and now I own it when the time comes. As for the gun in the car I am very pro 2A. But with this caviat cops job inherently makes them hated and puts there life in danger. He might have had suspicions that you had been breaking the law further than the speeding and decided to do a “routine” stop and see who this is an what they are doing. You have a right to deny giving any information but if you werent doing anything illegal then what was the issue in answering the questions of someone doing their job. I will say this I would try and read the cops demeanor and attempt to maybe judge what their reaction to me having a firearm would be and go from there. Final thoughts that I am glad things ended respectfully but I think next time if everyone just goes about things with respect for everyone else and simple as that and try to remember that youre not doing anything wrong and hes just doing his job. You might find more cops are smarter and nicer than you think.

    • Respect is earned, not freely given.

      I immediately suspect the motives of anyone in a position of power singling me out for scrutiny. They don’t deserve verbal answers to their questions and anything you say to them can be twisted and used against you. So I don’t talk to them.

      They will get everything required by law from me (license and registration), but nothing else unless I personally know them.

      • There’s a reason the Miranda warning says:

        “Anything you say or do can be used against you in a court or law”

        In NJ, even if you are doing everything you can to stay within the law when transporting firearms, there are so many vague definitions (purposely or unintentional) that there is ALWAYS something that they can get you for.

        Best to stay silent, accept the speeding ticket (or whatever offense initiated the stop) and if they want to dig deeper they have to work for it, like the law states.

      • Michael B. –

        BS. That is all.

        I could go all day on this but the bottom line is that respect should be exactly freely given. If the person recieving your respect isn’t deserving of it then you’ll find out quickly enough at which point you can spout that kind of pedantry.

        Think about this, if this fictitious officer of THE LAW (noun, TM, Etc.) were to treat you respectfully and politely would you be justified in acting churlish and rude?

        On the flip side of this you expect us to accept – and our fictitious officer to condone – your gruff, unpleasant treatment of him with kindness and polite words; even to let you off with nothing more than a considerate verbal warning?

        The word of the day is Manners kids, learn them, know them, live them.

        • “Manners kids.” Unfortunately that seems pretty fair to say to my generation. Respect and work ethics are hard to come by in my demographic.

      • Michael B.: If I pull you over on a traffic stop, I have not singled you out for scrutiny. YOU singled yourself out by violating traffic law. I will respect you, in as much as you respect me.
        If you treated me, like you indicated above, you probably would get that ticket that you deserve. Not because I am the A**hole, but simply because I return what I am given (within the bounds of the law). Remember, If I stop you for speeding, I already have the right/responsiblilty to write you the citation. However, with most citations, the officer has the discretion to give the citation, a written warning, or a verbal warning. Which one you get, often depends on the way you treat the officer.
        Like I’ve said in other posts, I’m looking for the bad guy (the drug user/distributor, warrants, ect). If you aren’t them, unless you did a flagrantly bad violation, I probably don’t have time to waste with you. A simple warning and you’ll be on your way. But if you treat me like you indicated above, Then I suspect that you have something to hide and I will be digging as deep as the law allows me to look.
        Remember, if you are the law abiding citizen, I am trying to serve you. I am trying to find and catch the bad guy.

    • Plain and simple you were breaking the law. You knew it was a 40 and went 45.

      Yeah, he’s a regular fvcking Dillinger. Thank god the cop was there to save us.

      Some cops are nice. Some are meaner that sh1thouse rattlesnakes. Some cops are smart. And some departments have rules against hiring smart people. Yes they do. Check it out. Google is your friend.

    • “Secondly cops catch shit all day and a lot of times for no reason.”

      I’m sure in some areas catching shit all the time is accurate, and the shit they’re catching is uniquely dangerous. Beyond that I doubt that statement is completely accurate, and even if it is, so what? Lots of people catch shit all the time. Try being in customer service, or low margin, high volume sales, or in house keeping for that matter. Or a coal miner, or a farm worker in the South. The only difference is that none of those people have the backing of one of the biggest unions in the country, essentially guaranteed employment, higher than living wage pay and pensions. Taking shit isn’t an excuse to fail to do your job or to take advantage of people. Again, I’m not saying all cops do that, or even a majority, but I’d consider pulling someone over for going 5 miles an hour over the speed limit (which is within the margin of error for most speed measuring equipment – even in fairly strict NH a judge would throw that out in a heartbeat) an abuse of power. But then, I’m a pretty avid speeder, so, you know, I may be biased.

      • Hell, try being a convenience store clerk. There’s a reason those things are nicknamed “Stop-n-Robs”. They take tons of crap, and for a lot less pay than your average cop.

  17. I’d have told him what was in the bag, big deal if theres a case of UMC 9mm, a speed loader and a couple Glock mags in it. He can’t fine you for it and it’ll probably put him at ease. Most interactions with LEOs where I’m from usually ends in a pleasant conversation about guns & gun control and without a citation on my driving record.

    One last thing, I don’t understand why people praise the Armed Forces and give cops shit. Being a soldier every single LEO that I have ever met has always been more professional than the joes.

    • Because regardless of their previous military service, if any, Cops are NOT military, or soldiers, and their performance of the job on city streets in America is or should be vastly different than how they approached any interaction in a war zone. We are not the enemy and should not be treated as such.

    • What about this scenario; Bag of guns and ammo on the floor. NO CCW permit because you’re going to the range to target practice, you do not carry on person, ever. Once you tell them you have guns and NO CCW, tell me what happens!

      • Well if you’re in Virginia, (theoretically) they tell you to have a nice day. However, in my experience, things just don’t usually go that easy with police.

        I’ve been asked by police to search my stuff twice. I declined both times.
        First time, the cop goes and gets the dogs. Dogs alert to drugs. They search my car and myself and don’t find shit because I don’t smoke pot. All in all it ends up being about a three hour long traffic stop for a simple reckless driving ticket. For doing 13 over the limit. On a major highway. Yep, the worst thing about Virginia is our traffic laws.
        Second time I’m on a dual sport motorcycle and I come flying out of some woods (not marked with no trespassing signs so it’s legal) into an apartment complex. The sheriff deputy providing security comes cruising up while I’m stopped to check out my bike and make sure it’s safe to ride on the road before I go home. First thing he does is ask if I have a gun on me. I say no, I’m only 17 it would be illegal for me to carry a gun. We have a little conversation, and he writes up a formal ban notice stating that I’m not allowed into the apartment complex. Apparently someone had been in the woods shooting the day before this incident. I tell the officer it definitely wasn’t me because there are no suitable backstops in those woods and I handle firearms responsibly. So finally I’m getting ready to leave and he asks if he can take a look in my backpack. I say no in a very respectful manner, and he asks me to promise there’s nothing illegal in my bag and sends me on my way. All in all he was a really nice guy and it was a rather pleasant experience. I understand that he was just doing his job asking to look in my bag, and he understood that it was my right to refuse a search and he had no problems with that.

  18. As a former city prosecutor and trainer of cops,a few points:
    1. The vast majority of cops are people of good will doing a difficult job.(if you’re not one it may be b/c you don’t want to put up with the crap they have to every day).
    2. If you’re stopped for any legal reason(and 45 in a 40 IS a lousy reason, BUT it is legal) the Supremes ruled long ago that for officer safety, the cop may do a “wing search”. This means that he can search EVEN IN CLOSED CONTAINERS as long as they’re unlocked AND the driver or other occupants could reach a weapon there. Locked glove compartment or console he can’t search b/c you can’t readily grab a weapon from there to hurt him. It’s called a “wing search” because he can only do this in places you could readily reach a weapon. He can’t look in any container too small to reasonably hold a weapon or that is out of your reach.
    3. When he says, “Do you why I stopped you?”, It’s an attitude check. If you tell him the truth, you’ll be the FIRST person to do so all day and rest of the experience will likely go better.
    4. If you run into one with a bad attitude, being a jerk will only make things go downhill from there. So it’s not a bad idea to have a recording device going anytime you’re stopped. Some cops DO lie.
    5. I was also an auxiliary cop before law school. Please don’t jump to conclusions if you have never made a night traffic stop on a carload of young males and felt your stomach churn as you approach.

    • 3. When he says, “Do you why I stopped you?”, It’s an attitude check. If you tell him the truth, you’ll be the FIRST person to do so all day and rest of the experience will likely go better.

      It’s also an attempt to get you to incriminate yourself.

      • I’m not so sure about admissibility.

        Besides, if you answer “yes,” what does it prove? You can’t read the officer’s mind. So he thinks that he stopped you because you were speeding, and you think that he stopped you because he’s an @ssh0le. The answer to the question is still “yes.”

    • That is true, if you are honest and respectful most cops will treat you the same and you are much more likely to get a break. Being a jerk or lying to them is a really bad ideal, they are always armed.

      My last ticket was in 2001, and the cop in that instance just wanted to be a jerk to the out of stater, he gave me a ticket for going 77 in a 75 for crying out loud. I tried treating him with respect, he did not care and was intent on being a jerk.

      On the other hand, I have been pulled over 4 times since then that I can easily recall. Not a one resulted in a ticket. One officer at 2 in the morning thanked me for treating him like a human and asked me to please not speed on the rest of my trip home because the world needs people like me before releasing me.

      My formula is simple, when pulled over I stop in the first place that is going to provide ample protection from other drivers for me and the cop. They really appreaciate it if you pull over into the grass some, leaving like 4 feet between you and the road so they can use their car as a shield. Then I put car in park, remove my license from my wallet and set it on my lap in clear view. If dark I turn on my interior lights. Finally I roll down the window and place both hands on the top of my steering wheel in full view. When he comes to the car I am honest, treat him/her like I would a good friend and always let them know before I make any movements. Like “I have my license on my lap, I am going to hand it to you.”

      My wife, after seeing me use this to get out of several tickets has started using it to good effect as well (she has a lead foot). Recently she got pulled over when I was in the car. She did not know why was eulled over and so asked me what i thought she should say when asked, I said say “I honestly do not know why I got pulled over, I do not think I was speeding but that is the most likely reason.” The cop laughed and said “No, your speed was fine, people usually don’t admit to speeding this is the first time someone who wasn’t speeding told me they might have been.” Turned out we had let one of the stickers on our license plate expire, and he told us since we were honest people he was not going to even bother writing a ticket that required us to fix it before some court date like he normally would, just asked us to fix it ASAP.

      Usually with people of all folds, what you give is what you recieve.

      • I do this every time. It takes some of the tension out of the stop. I think I heard that traffic stops are the most dangerous part of a cops job. The only ticket I ever receiver was before I employed these tactics.

      • Andrew, I do it just a little differently. When the car is pulled over and shut down I leave my hands on the steering whell until the cop makes contact. i don’t want him to be seeing me making movements in the car as he’s approaching or watching.

        I’m large, ugly and with a full beard. I do not wish to make them any more nervous than they already are.

        It’s been close to 20 years since I actually got a ticket. I’ve had cops let me go on open containers, had to spill the contents out and carrying a gun without a permit. No charges, no paper trail. So it pays to be polite when they approach.

        • He said that he kept his hands on the wheel. There was an awesome article that went around that explained how to put an officer at ease initially during a traffic stop. Dome light on, window down, and hands in the wheel. During contact tell him you’re grabbing your iD and reg. last time my snubbie was in my glove and the officer told me he didn’t need my reg. I said “ya that makes sense.” I had blatantly run a red light( short orange in my defense) and had sped up to do so. When asked if I knew why he pulled me over I said ” oh yeah! I ran a red light sped up to do it. Yiu know what he said ” well no you made the light, but speeding up to do it is where You went wrong”. Let me go with a verbal warning. Great officer.

          P.s. I informed him at contact that I had my ccw. “Don’t show me yours and I won’t show you mine”.

    • A former city PROSECUTOR (paid to convict people, roughly) favors you saying anything that can and WILL be used against you in a court of law. What a surprise.

    • “He can’t look in any container too small to reasonably hold a weapon or that is out of your reach.”

      Elephant in the closet

      Excellent post gregolas!!!

  19. You want something to put a chill down you spine as it relates to your individual freedom.

    Today – Court: Police can take DNA swabs from arrestees

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20130603/DA6MB4680.html

    A cop for some reason/no reason arrests you and the dimwits at the Supreme Court have ruled the popo can take your DNA. Pass it to a illiterate lab tech do process and enter into a national database. Think about it.

    If banning firearms isn’t the wetdream of the progressive statist then this is. Might as well tattoo a serial number on you.

    • Lots of states already had this rule, by statute. A majority of states, IIRC. The Court validated those laws. If your state law provides otherwise, then your rights are unaffected. If your state laws are silent, then your rights have changed.

      Taking a cheek swab, without a warrant, incidental to a felony arrest seems as reasonable as taking fingerprints or photographs without a warrant. A lawful search after an arrest is quite invasive but also legal.

      But if you are not under arrest, no swab can be taken without a warrant.

  20. One thing that you have to remember about almost all law enforcement officers…. they are either personally corrupt…or they have been around, witnessed or particpated in degrees of corruption and idiotic behavior that most people cannot fathom…so trying to compete with a Cop…on their turf….in a rude or disrespectful manner is not going to get you anywhere….as the child of corrupt law enforcement folks….and as a guy who used ride around in a patrol car with my police-officer-brother…as we smoked weed out of a suction-cupped bowl that was stuck to the dashboard…with three feet of aquarium tubing to smoke from…one of us would light the bowl, while the other smoked…then we’d switch off…dope smoke rolling out of the police car..right before we’d pull some…”joe”…over for 45 in a 40…..My Dad was a St. Louis City Cop… rascist, 40 beers a day….four pack of smokes a day….high blood pressure….beat his kids like they were poorly trained attack dogs….my Mom was the Court Clerk…until she got caught embezzling $80,000.00 from the ticket money…so my point is this…most of those cops are boosting their ego’s…or trying to be done for the day and get home to their beer and pot…..so I am all for standing up for your rights (I was a Federally protected whistle-blower for two decades with US DoD)… but if you want to be effective with the cops….I’d suggest you minimize the chest-puffing….act polite until they do not….and try to minmize the damage…to both yourself and the cop…unless they act like an ass …then I’d file a claim against them through their Chief…request the video/audio days later so they think it is a non-issue…and then I’d 4th generation them (legally) in court….

    Regards,

    RJ O’Guillory
    Author-
    Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

      • Mark….

        …son….believe it or not…it matters not an ounce to me…if you believe me…but enjoy the movie version of my memoir when it comes out….btw…we have it being considered by a major film producer….so, if we achieve that goal…it will be great…but I have already lived in Japan, Germany, Bosnia, Hungary …Serbia…South Korea….and all across the US…I’ve climbed Mt. Fuji…and received a personal tour of Air Force One….and I did all that with no college or formal eduation…all while I must have been having seizures my whole life…so, after having survived driving off the 200 foot cliff in 2010..at 70 mph..and being tossed down the side of the mountain….and being plucked off the side of the cliff by the emt’s…I really don’t care if you believe me….btw…get some help for yourself…I’m sure my observations about bystander apply to yourself as well…

        Regards,

        RJ O’Guillory
        Author-
        Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

        • Saw your book on Amazon. I couldn’t help but notice that the majority of reviews were 1 star.

          Also, what’s with all the periods in your writing? It’s not difficult to believe your admission of not being educated.

        • Yes, Jay…
          ….I use a lot of elipsis in my writing…on comment blogs… because I like to break up my thoughts…in digestible portions for the people reading..and so that my thoughts are clear…

          Why….have you been having trouble understanding? Perhaps some remedial education for yourself might be in order? And yes, I know…after I got the book published in 09…I started having terrible seizures and then I drove off a cliff and was thrown down the face of the cliff…about 200 feet… and it left me with a big gash in my brain….and a broekn neck in several spots..a broken back in several places..and a few broken ribs, etc…..so the marketing and movement of my book has not been what I think I’d have been able to accomplish if I was still a “whole” person…..but the book has sold several thousand copies…and because of the tone of the book…and the famous history of the City of Webster Groves…some peole are uncomfortable with my book!

          You see..my book describes the type of upbringing that many of us baby-boomers endured…and it strikes at the heart of the parenting style in which you beat, humiliate and abuse your kids….since this is a style of parenting that is still popular in The West and in America…I get a lot of resistance about the nature of the book?

          Some parents still thnk that beating and humiliating the child is the acceptable way to raise a child…or they were raised that way..and are raising their kids that way…so many folks don’t want to compare their parenting style to that of my parents and their generational brothers and sisters….and my book is terribly vulgar…due to it’s content….and many folks just don’t like that… so I end up with about 30% of the folks disliking the book….20% have no feeling either way…and about 50% just love the writing and the stories…and they relate to it very well…so if you have any writing experience at all…especially when you are writing about true events…you’ll understand that a certain percentage of folks are just angry, jealous and bitter at their own lost lives…and having done nothing with their life…so they rip other’s efforts…..kind of like yourself…btw…do you have a memoir that is being condsidered by a major film producer for movement to film? Or have you lived in japan…climbed Mt. Fuji…have you received a personal tour of Air Force One?

          And I did all that and much more…in spite of the upbringing that I and my siblings endured, without any formal education….so your observations are a little empty for me…

          Oh, no,..wait…have you done anything at all with your life?……if not…you may just want to STFU…….ha!

          Regards,

          RJ O’Guillory
          Author-
          Webster Groves-the Life of an Insane Family

  21. Stopped for five miles over?
    End ofbthe month catch up on those non-existant quotas I guess. Sorry, I meant “performance benchmark.”
    Awesome for not caving into fishing tactics.

  22. Well played.

    Were you driving through Londonderry by any chance? I have a particular disdain for the police of that town. They too use low speed speed traps to fish for BS revenue enhancement. Although the cop that gave you a warning seems alot more reasonable than the Londonderry PD. Incompetent Nazis.

  23. Maltwit, I also live in a small town near Manchester. I think your encounter turned out fine. I have always found the locals to be very professional.
    A little odd you got stopped for 45 in a 40, where I live that would make you the slow guy. There are a lot of reasons the officer took so long, could be the dispatcher was busy.
    I wouldn’t hand out that card the next time you get stopped, just talk to the officer the same as you did this time.

    If you want to get a feel for how your local LEOs work, download a scanner app to your phone or tablet, you can listen to their calls, and get a good idea how they treat people. You can listen to what the LEO is saying while you wait.

  24. After working for a year reviewing probable cause issues for a local court I’ve come up with the following best practice when being stopped for any reason:

    Hand over your required documents: DL, ins, etc., then fake the best jiberish foreign language your complextion will allow for, while smiling sheepishly and looking confused:

    Cop: “Sir, do you know why I stopped you?”

    Citizen: “Veshmully zeitzev? Uah, veshintzy?”

    Cop: “Uh . . . have a nice day sir.”

  25. Well done. The police have a hard job and I respect them for their efforts to protect the public. They police are certainly not the enemy. That said, everyone should always stand up for and defend their rights. But do it in a way that’s respectful and doesn’t put anyone at risk. You handled it professionally and so did the officer. All in all a good interaction and congratulations to both parties for doing the right thing.

  26. Well Done on standing up for your rights! Growing up in NH has given me appreciation for gun rights and how little they are respected in other states.

    BTW- The cop didn’t have red hair by any chance? Probably went to high school with him if so.

  27. “whats in the bag?”
    “My stuff.”
    “Mind if I have a look inside?”
    “Yeah I mind, it’s my bag and my stuff”

    And if he gets you out , hooks you up, and pours your bag all over the hood of the car, then you ask him if he has a good attorney. Because without PC and a warrant he’s going to need one.

    • I can’t speak for everyone out there, but I can guarantee that if I started going through your stuff, I’m pretty confident about my PC. It doesn’t take much.

      And if I have PC on a stop, I don’t need a warrant. The attorney you hire to contact my attorney will probably explain that to you.

      • …Bystander….your chosen site-name reveals a lot about who you are..and what you think of your “self”…you like to sound all knowledgable and legal…but at your core…you simply live in a “child-ego- state”…with a need to explain away your inherently immoral behavior…and violations of natural law….by acting like you can out-duel any “citizen” with your logic….but you fail to understand that your “logic” exists in a corupted society that has urinated all over the prinicpals of liberty and freedom…you are an indoctrinated stooge who cannot control the need to defend themselves…even on a site where your opinion will never be respected, adhered to or accepted…but because someone was stupid enough to convey “authority” upon your doofus ass…you seem to think that you can out-duel natural law…well, ask those “police” in Instanbul how that is working out for them? Now that they have really pissed off the lowly citizens? I know you think you are cool and correct…but most cops like yourself end up having to retire to avoid prosecution for throwing people off roofs and other stupid acts born in their idiotic of “lack-of-control”…get some help before you hurt someone seriously…or you find yourself sitting alone in a bar..thinking about blowing your brains out…

        Regards,

        RJ O’Guillory
        Author-
        Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

        • Well, I’ve never thrown someone off a roof, but I have cuffed someone up there after he tried to throw me off.

          I am still confused about the whole “regards” thing.

        • Well, I’ve never thrown someone off a roof, but I have cuffed someone up there after he tried to throw me off.

          I am still confused about the whole “regards” thing.

        • I wonder, Bystander: does an officer need probable cause to shove a plunger handle up a guy’s @ss?

        • Ralph, he wouldn’t need probable cause, he would need a really, really good lawyer.

        • …hey…for all you supporters of corrupt law enforcement practices…here is one for you…now…I’m certain that Bystander, Mark and Juan will find some way to justify this cop’s actions…it will be like watching late-night TV…let us see what kind of justification they have for this….Ha!
          ——————-
          Marlon Brown was killed in the incident, which occurred on May 8 after law enforcement officers tried to pull him over for not wearing a seat belt. Investigators say Brown wouldn’t stop and a chase ensued with DeLand police joining. Brown jumped out of his car and ran away, troopers said.

          As Harris arrived on scene, he drove more than 100 feet off the road through a backyard fence and ran over and killed Brown, troopers said
          —————————–

          …but then again…none of us…that are not part of the thin-blue-line…none of us would really understand now..would we..?

          Regards,

          RJ O’Guillory
          Author-
          Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

        • I’m not familiar with the story, but based on the rendition you told, I’d say Harris screwed up really badly. At the least, he’ll loose his job, and at the most, he’ll face murder charges.
          A vehicle is considered a deadly weapon. In Fl., on officer can only use a deadly weapon when his life is in danger (or another’s life). If, as you tell the story, Brown was running away…. mmmmm gonna be hard for Harris to say he was in fear for his life, or the life of another.
          Sounds to me like Harris was a little over zealous in his attempt to catch Brown. Sounds like he was going a “little” to fast to stop.
          I doubt that he intended to kill Brown. But his actions will have consequences.
          And, lets not forget, the dept., the city, and whoever, will have their pants sued off them. Hope that community is ready to view their bare butts.
          The other thing we have to worry about in Fl.; What was Brown’s skin color? If it was the same as his name, and Harris walks off without any criminal charges, I’ll gaurantee we’ll have riots in the streets, and probably neighborhoods burned.
          You said Deland? I think that is near where the other black boy got shot by the neighborhood watchman. This should get real interesting.

  28. The best response I have heard came from Dave Champion:

    1) Smile!
    2) Say: “Officer, we both know it does not work like that.” The BS should stop.
    3) Shut up unless the interaction involves the traffic citation. Smiling and/or silence should be your primary response to anything off topic.

  29. Bystander…you are genetically confused…it is why you have chosen the path of immorality and power…you either have chosen to be a source of evil and hardship in life…or you think you are working for the “good guys”…well…there are no real “good guys”…just men and women with “power” over others…who have no idea how to exercise that power in an appropriate manner….you have displayed that in a heroic manner on this site all afternoon…I feel sory for you…much like my corrupt-cop, deceased brother….you are an empty shell of a human…that is fueled by ego and childish ideas of “right & wrong”….that have been implanted by your upbringing…..it is the same reason that you cannot get the “Regards” thing…it is because you have not developed your thinking skills beyond what you were told as a child…when you get beyond that..perhaps you will understand the anger exhibited on this story…on this site…and at yourself…

    …and if you need more understanding…buy my memoir and read it…you’ll get it then…ha!

    Regards,

    RJ O’Guillory
    Author-
    Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

    • “Bystander…you are genetically confused”

      Probably true, though my genetic confusion typically manifests itself in an inability to turn down Mexican food and Tequila.

      “there are no real “good guys”

      Well, I don’t know about that. After all, you would probably consider yourself one of the “good guys”, right? As would many of the people on this site that disagree with me, I’m sure.

      “you are an empty shell of a human”

      Having seen a CAT Scan of my insides after a gun fight, I can assure you I am not empty. At least the I don’t think I am, the bullets did hit a few things…

      “that is fueled by ego and childish ideas of “right & wrong”

      The fact that I have kept my responses civil despite your (and other’s) barrage of ad hominem attacks should demonstrate that ego is not what fuels me. And I will keep it “child like” as long as I can – it preserves the disgust I feel at some of the crimes I witness, rather than turning me in to a jaded and apathetic cop.

      “I feel sory (sic) for you”

      As I said before: don’t bother, I get free donuts!

      “you cannot get the “Regards” thing”

      No, I get it. I’m just not sure you see the incongruity of closing with “Regards” after using a string of condescending perjoratives. I mean, at least keep it real, right?

      • ….see here…another great example of someone who works as a police officer…but does not understand his role in our Consitutional Republic…if only these people had as high an IQ as they seem to have testosterone levels…we might see some Constitutional Law Enforcement…but I’m not so sure with this operating philospohy….
        ——————————
        “I am one of the top 50 ticket writers in my dept. What no one realizes is that I probably give at least twice as many warnings. I’m just pro-active.
        When I first started, we had an old Sgt. who used to tell us, “you are the hunter”. And we are; we hunt bad guys for 12 hrs at a time. We use traffic laws to hunt for the bad guys. Sometimes, otherwise good citizens get stopped on those traffic laws. As soon as I see that I have the wrong guy (not the bad guy), I quickly whip out a warning, let you go, then get on with the hunt.”….Mark
        ————————-
        ..maybe it is just me…but I’m having a hard time finding the old Constitutional Andy Griffith…of MayBerry…I don’t see him in that statement….I see a sociopath who gets off on being a “hunter”…and thinks of himself as some “higher being” who get the power to hunt down fellow human beings…and if the rules get in the way…if the Consitution gets in the way…well then…in your world…you just say..”the hell with that, I need to get home tonight”….well..real men, real LEO’s that are not cowards and know their role…they know that going home at night was part of the bargain to begin with..and if you do not want to fill the role properly..get out…but don’t expect all of us to accept your Blue-Line BS..

        Regards,

        RJ O’Guillory
        Author-
        Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane family

        • RJO, I think you had a bad experience somewhere, and now you can’t let it go.
          Do you NOT want me to hunt the bad guys? I think everybody else does want me to hunt them. The more of them I put in jail, the safer you can sleep at night. Its what I’m paid to do. Has nothing to do with my Testosterone. And I’m not paid to “lay my life on the line”. I’m sure my wife and children would disagree with you on that one. You should be ashamed of yourself for making such a comment.

        • And whatever it was you said about the constitution and me tossing it aside… its all in your dreams. You haven’t read a word I said, all night.

        • Mark, Bystander and whomever else is involved in the discussion…a couple of points:

          – yes, bystander..that may have been the first thoughtful observation that you have made so far…I am a furious individual..and it has taken me decades of therapy and understanding to deal with the outcomes of my upbringing….being beaten by a 6’9″, 350lb, corrupt angry man….having liquid ivory soap shoved down our mouths by our corrupt-cop Dad and our Corrupt-Court-Clerk Mom….being speared in the back from twenty feet away with a piece of broken off 2×2…at the age of seven or eight….how about standing in your bedroom with a baseball bat..at the age of five…conspiring with your older brother to go in and beat the great LEO parents to death…but understanding at that age..that we only had one bat….and having grown up around those people and their friends…my whole life..and the watching the corruption in the federal workplace….seeing bodies stacked in the basement of the bombed Olympic Stadium in Sarejevo…because they couldn’t bury them and the basement was colder….all because our corrupt government wants to dominate the planet and it’s resources? And then they use stooges like you guys to try to defend it all….?….so yes… I am furious at people who claim to have adequate IQs to do the job…sign up for it knowing that you are going to put your life on the line….but then after you start…we can just begin shaving rules here and there…all because we have to get home at night…something you knew about when you applied for the position…so it is you guys who should be ashamed of themselves.

          …either that…or you really have no idea what a vow, an oath or integrity really mean?

          Regards,

          RJ O’Guillory
          Author-
          Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

        • Ha!…well thanks for the effort all the same…don’t get me wrong…I’m all for Constitutional Law Enforcement…and I’d love to see a country where personal choice is not criminlaized…and especially to the point where we fill our for-profit prisons with the improper clientle…but a cursory search of the internet tells you that we fill our jails with small time offenders who often need counseling, jobs and direction in life…The government uses Law Enforcement to create reveue and to control a population that doesn’t like living under tyranny…however…I really don’t blame cops..as much as our political “leadership”…but I know a lot of cops who have the job…have gotten the job…so that they can reap whatever side-benfit their demented minds can conjure up…and I cannot help it if I have been exposed to the side of policing that you would like covered up…I sppose that is how you would define being…”saved”…?

          Ha!

          Regards,

          RJ O’Guillory
          Author-
          Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

        • Mark, I think you are right. He is angry about something and nobody is going to change his mind. The world is big enough for all of us.

          He keeps going back to “IQ.” It seems he conflates a person’s IQ with whether or not they agree him, which is obviously wrong – even the members of Mensa disagree on things.

          As for me, well, maybe I am dumb. The beauty of being dumb is that you don’t know you are…

        • I believe you are right.
          As for me… I’m sleepy. And this guy just finished me off.
          See Ya.

      • Jay…

        Son….I’m sorry it didn’t happen sooner in your life..but someone should have helped you earlier in your battle to grow up…an adult should have taught you this concept by now…sorry that you have not had the ability to learn how to be… and learn how to process being an adult….this may help….

        “…it is better to keep mouth shut, and be thought a fool…than open it, and remove all doubt”….

        …when you have something intelligent to add to the discussion…rather than trying to disparage other people’s efforts…and their disabilities…then maybe, just maybe… you can bring some value to your place here on earth?

        Regards,

        RJ O’Guillory
        Author-
        Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

  30. Maltwit; I don’t know what your state laws are. Is it legal to carry a gun, in a bag, in the floorboard of the passenger side, on the way to the range? If it is, you have nothing to be ashamed of, or to hide. On the other hand, citizens do not need to become accustomed to freely handing over their constitutional rights for no reason.

    I started to say, “I’ve never had any trouble being open with doing the law abiding thing”. But then I remembered a case in Alaska, where I shot a fox, on her way to my chicken coup, after she had been raiding it, and my neighbor’s coups for the past several days…. Alaska state law stated that you could shoot an animal out of season, to protect your property, but the carcass belonged to the state, and a report must be filed with the state. So, I contacted the State Troopers and reported it. A Trooper came out, and I handed over the carcass. Over my objections, He commenced to charging me with the crime of shooting an animal out of season. The state attorney later declined to prosecute. The whole time, my neighbor had told me to bury the fox and not report it. I argued that I had done the legal thing, and if I was to bury it, I would be committing a crime. Later, I wished I had buried it.

    So, like others have said; Be respectful, follow instructions, but know your rights, and know when to stand, and when to bow.

  31. If you folks make the cops into the enemy, and you dont like the criminals either, its gonna get real lonely out there in life!

    If you dont want cops snooping, dont give them an excuse to stop you, be polite and courteous. Report bad behavior after the event to the proper authorities. be active in your community policing policies, trust me enough pressure on the council can change police practices.

    if you screw up man up.

    • @Dave S

      I agree with you: man up on your mistakes, screw-ups, and wrong-doings.

      That said, SOMETIMES you can be minding your own business, obeying the laws, and still receive harassment. You can be driving along a highway in some small town in a car that isn’t the best looking (its a bit beat up) OBEYING the laws and still get pulled over. At which time the officer proceeds to initiate a fishing expedition into what charge and ticket to write you up. (Of course, if you were driving a new, excellent condition, luxury car, they may decide you might be able to hire a really good lawyer and cost them or their bosses money instead of getting it and not even try.)

      There are SOME good cops out there, and then there are SOME bad ones. The bad ones are the ones you don’t want to deal with, but are more likely to go after you. I personally know one guy who went for a police officer position and after a short while walked away due to witnessing the corrupt actions of his fellow officers. (I think the actions weren’t like bashing someone’s teeth out after handcuffing them and trying to claim resisting arrest, but were abuses of power/authority.)

      To the good cops out there: Thanks for doing your best.
      To the bad cops out there: You’re no better than the scum you haul off to jail.

  32. Last week I was pulled over by an Arizona state trooper, at night in what was for me the middle of nowhere. He came up on the passenger side of the car and very briefly flashed his light in my eyes. Why? Because he probably wanted the chance to take a quick peek at the visable contents of the interior of my car and have a slight edge on me should I have been a dirt bag. In other words, he wanted to end his shift alive and return to his family. The trooper was polite, professional, and in charge; I wanted him to know by my actions that he was, in fact, in charge of the situation. If he’d asked me about the contents of my car, or some other such question I would have answered. When stopped while carrying I volunteer the info. then I ask what the officer would like me to do. If that makes me into a pussy in some of your eyes, all I can say is meow.

    We seem to expect cops to act like Dirty Harry when taking on the “bad guys” and treat us the way Mr. Rodgers would when we get stopped. How in the heck is the cop supposed to know what side you are on? I know a former leo who stopped a disorderly man in a business suit on the side walk. The then officer let his guard down for a split second, and was knocked out cold by this seemingly compliant individual. Sorry, but getting all butt hurt because of our preception that we are not being respected (not the same as being threatened) is, well, childish. If I ever have a real issue with an leo (not had one yet and I’ve been stopped in several states 🙂 ), that is something for an attorney to deal with.

    There are few occupations where the worker faces the daily reality of being thrown under the bus by politically striving superiors, falsely accused, disrespected by self-important peacock-like citizens, and even being killed by a scum bag, or run over and killed by an otherwise law abiding citizen. I write this not to excuse bad behavior, but to consider how well the vast majority of leos perform in light of the world they face.

    • I agree with you Silent. But I will not volunteer whether I am armed, but I will be polite and comply with reasonable instructions. It is unfortunate that a miniscule fraction of police give all of them a bad name sometimes.

  33. I think you should handle these things civily and verbally. A card like that could be a red rag to a bull.

    • A red rag to some bulls, but to people like me it doesn’t mean anything. Look, I already know what your rights are, the stop is clearly not consenual because I made you stop, and I am only interested in searching the vehicle if I think something is up. If something is up, I expect resistance to a search. I have had plenty of people tell me I can’t search their car right before I found a crack pipe under the driver’s seat.

      The thing is this – you get sized up from the moment your plates are run. After the approach, you get sized up again. If training and experience lead an officer to a reasonable suspicion (which has a threshhold much lower than PC – it is “could have” vs. “probably did”) then you are detained for investigation. Talk, don’t talk, it makes no difference, because at that point in the investigation they don’t need your cooperation.

      In most cases, you will get the guy like me. I can talk forever and I am good at handling business that way, and thats the way I like things to go. Occasionally, you get the bulldog – all he is going to do is call for a follow, wait for a supervisor, give you a lawful command, and at some point drag you out of the car. They will cover all the bases, give you several opportunities to comply, and then do what they think is necessary. You can put up a fight and do time (I have yet to see someone not get locked up for that) or you can go along with them and have a chance of getting a search thrown out (I have seen that happen, just not to me).

      It is your call, but in my experience most of the “I won’t talk to the police” words get swallowed when the rubber meets the road.

      • Bystander, after reading through all of the comments above, I just wanted to commend you on your unflappable temperament. You seem like one of the good guys, and I hope you’ll hang around.

        Frankly, I think a lot of the negative reaction you’ve gotten in this discussion is because folks aren’t used to LEOs so plainly conveying the practical limitations of their 4A rights. You’ve shattered more than a few carefully held illusions, from what I can tell, and that’s not a bad thing.

        • yeah I cant say that I disagree with bystander either.

          he’s absolutely correct.

          I think people are misinterpreting his familiarity with police procedures to overzealousness.

      • Call me old fashioned. But I do believe deep in my being that people deserve the right to be assumed innocent until you prove otherwise. I don’t get butthurt about much, but when I am accused of something that I don’t nor have ever done I get a little uppity. Asking to search someone’s car who hasn’t given you a reason to think they have something is wrong. And unless you have legitimate reason to think someone is transporting or DUI then your search should only be on the body for things that can harm you. Like razor blades, hand grenades or blow guns.

        I guess what I’m trying to say is no matter how you convince yourself otherwise that you’re doing the right thing you are not. I didn’t think any TTAG reading cops were those types of people.

        • You do have the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

          As a cop, I have the right to go home to my family after 12 hrs of duty.
          When I do a traffic stop, I don’t know who I’m dealing with. I have to approach with caution. Too many folks misinterpret that to mean that I am treating them “sub-human”. I just ask that you are patient with me, as I go through the motions, that I have been trained to do, so that I can stay alive.

          I only ask for vehicle searches if I feel that the occupant is trying to hide a criminal activity. If you are Joe Blow, the law abiding citizen, returning home from work, you will never hear me ask for a vehicle search.
          Ride with me some night. I will take you into the “hood”. We will look for suspicious looking vehicles, who are lurking about in the dark, in places that law abiding citizens don’t hang out. Then, you will see me ask for permission to search, and I will use the tactics that other officers have mentioned. Why? Becuase I believe I have a bad guy in front of me, and I want to catch him in the act, then arrest him (so he can be turned back out the next day on a low bond).
          I used to watch one stop sign, which was the only exit to a nasty neighborhood. Almost every car would roll through that stop sign. I would stop them. On almost 50% of them, I found drugs after getting them to allow me to search them and the vehicle. Another 10% or so, had warrants; then I could search the vehicle incident to arrest. I would usually find more drugs, and they would catch new charges. After a while, the judge gets tired of seeing the same person, and starts giving them stiffer penalties.

        • I’ve read his posts. I recognize all his tactics, and have used them all myself. Some say they doubt he’s a cop. I can read his post and tell you that he is very much a cop.
          He just comes across wrong. He says he’s a good talker, but he hasn’t shown it here, with everyone turning against him. But give him the benifit of the doubt if you can. He said he’s been shot on duty. I have not. I would assume that after a near death experience, any cop would become more annal than he was before.
          I’ve taken a lot of “ride along” citizens. They have all enjoyed it, and they have a complete new appreciation for what we do after the ride.
          In another post, I mentioned the guy that I stopped for tailgaiting, who ended up having a murder warrant. I had a ride along that night. The only reason I did the traffic stop was because my ride along had been wanting to see one all night and we hadn’t gotten any in the whole 12 hr shift. This guy finally came along, tailgaiting.
          I am one of the top 50 ticket writers in my dept. What no one realizes is that I probably give at least twice as many warnings. I’m just pro-active.
          When I first started, we had an old Sgt. who used to tell us, “you are the hunter”. And we are; we hunt bad guys for 12 hrs at a time. We use traffic laws to hunt for the bad guys. Sometimes, otherwise good citizens get stopped on those traffic laws. As soon as I see that I have the wrong guy (not the bad guy), I quickly whip out a warning, let you go, then get on with the hunt.

        • Mark,
          Good approach, so long as someone stopped asserting their rights does not trigger “tactics that other officers use”. If they’ve actually broken the law, do what you are allowed or what they consent to. Agreed, it’s a thin line, but the original view was that it was better not to get some bad actors rather than to oppress Citizens. Also, again, why are you/we enforcing bad “laws”? The Constitution does not mention any form of regulation of what folks ingest. Period. Granted, being a druggie is lame, however if we just left them alone they would sooner than later kill themselves off… Just sayin’…

        • Ed,
          I was about to go to bed, but your comment caught my attention.

          You are wrong about leaving the drugie alone. He doesn’t just dry up and go away. He continues and gets worse. In about 80-90 % of the cases, a dopehead is also connected to burglaries and thefts. Many, if not most, burglars do so, to support their drug habits. You can ask any cop and they’ll tell you, “ya get a dopehead off the street and you got a burglar off the street at the same time”.
          When your home gets burglarized, just remember, you wanted me to leave them alone and hope they will go away.
          You seem to think that drug laws are “bad” laws because they aren’t in the constitution… These are state laws. A soveriegn state can make any law, as long as it doesn’t violate the constitution.

        • I feel the same way about hard drug users. Pill poppers and heroine users tend to steal. I’m from New Hampshire and we have a horrible problem in New England. I’ve known ALOT of kids and young adults who got addicted and stole to support their habits. I would assume pills are the most expensive drug addiction. One needs an incredibly well paying job to support it and few people who would make that life choice(to do pills in the first place) would be smart enough to get that job.
          I’ve had it happen to family. My wife has had it even worse. Bottom line, it turns people into thieving lying fiends.

        • Carry .45, think about it this way:

          One night, I pull in to a parking lot behind a local fast food place and see your car parked in the rear corner.

          What I know: this lot is regularly used by offenders to get high, which has increased the amount of drug use in the neighborhood, which has drawn dealers to the area, which has drawn gangs. Typically, the offenders park where you parked.

          What you know: You were hungry, went through the drive through, and wanted to eat in the car instead of the dining room.

          From my point of view, you fit bill for a person committing a crime. I haven’t assumed that you are, but I am going to check it out, and because you don’t wear a sign that says “I have drugs”, I am going to have get a little nosy in my questioning. It is nothing personal, and I will likely quickly realize that you just wanted to eat. I will probably also warn you about the people that hang out in the neighborhood. You may think that I am assuming you are guilty, but I haven’t. You might get offended, but that is a risk I am willing to take. I wouldn’t be doing my job if I didn’t investigate, however. Perhaps you would tell me you will be all right because you are, as a matter of fact, carrying your .45, and I would mention that discretion is the better part of valor.

        • The only reason you would know I was carrying would be because of the courtesy notification that I give you when you approach me. Meaning you ask for my ID and I fork it over with my ccw and tell you I am carrying my weapon.

          You may not be as bad as you seem but I’d e a lot more choosy in your wording in the future when you talk about how you do your job here. There’s a lot of cop bashing that goes on. If you’ve ever noticed me on this site than you’d know that I generally side with the officers in question. I treat cops the way is treat my boss, until I’m disrespected. At that point I don’t need to be as tactful because my job isn’t on the line with a cop.

      • If you stop me, I will expect you to tell me why. I will be courteous and if you ask to search my vehicle I will ask you what you will be searching for. If I have no contraband, you will be most welcome to search, but I will also tell you that I have no contraband.

        • One misconception that people have, is that we “have” to tell them why we stopped them. In most states, there is no specific state law requiring that. However, most departments have SOP’s that address it. In my dept., we are taught to get the DL, registration, and proof of insurance (in hand) before we tell them why we stopped them. If we didn’t, we would have trouble getting those three items becuase the driver would be so busy arguing with us. Once I have them in hand, I tell them the reason for the stop, then excuse myself to my own vehicle. I don’t stand around and make myself available for an argument. I can generally conduct a traffic stop in 10 or 11 minutes, without the argument. Arguing on the side of the road can get people killed (by passing traffic). The place for the argument is in the courtroom. Besides, it gives the cited person more time to plan their argument and to back it with paper and pictures. (judges seem to like paperwork).

        • Or maybe judges are more interested in seeking truth and justice? Naw. . . they just want their a** covered, just like the police. As I’ve said before the police have the best job on the planet! It is a position of trust given by the public. It is a shame it takes so few to tarnish that.

      • Mark and Bystander. There’s a set of commentors on TTAG that are going to hate you for being cops. I say welcome to you both and they can lump it.

        Bystander, you’ve encountered a bunch of key board commandoes here and have unerringly given them an education in the real world. You’ve been calm and polite and I’ve enjoyed the show. Hopefully you’ll hang around here.

        I’ve barely commented on this thread and it’s been one of the most entertaining and informative ones we’ve had in a while.

        • …yes..I agree…Mark and Bystander are trying very hard to appear basically reasonable…however, you will notice that they have not denied the basic premise that law enforceent is generally corrupt…they keep talking about their own conduct…but they don’t seem to be willing to discuss the corrupt actions they have been witness to…actively covered up…or looked the other way…and if they are really cops..and they get back on this site and claim that they have not witnessed reportable corruption…and looked the other way…well, you and I both know that is impossible if you are employed as a LEO..now..or a hundred years from now…or a hundred years ago…if Mark & Bystander have any credibility left…they will admit that their profession is polluted with miscreants who abuse the public on a regular basis…and as the “police” in Turkey are finding out…all those expensive toys are not going to do you any good when the people rise up and tire of the unconstitutional conduct on the part of government/police….the Turks are putting wet towels in the exhaust pipes of their big police tanks….wearing cut plastic bottles as gas masks….and filling light bulbs with paint to obscure the view of the police tanks and armored men in face shields…so when the people tire of your childish….liberty-sucking conduct…4th generation warefare is going to be a problem….however..I did notice that some Turkish Police were refusing to shoot the protestors..or shoot raw sewage at them… so maybe there are some decent people in the forces of police around the world?

          Regards,

          RJ O’Guillory
          Author-
          Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

        • …yes..I agree…Mark and Bystander are trying very hard to appear basically reasonable…however, you will notice that they have not denied the basic premise that law enforceent is generally corrupt…they keep talking about their own conduct…but they don’t seem to be willing to discuss the corrupt actions they have been witness to…actively covered up…or looked the other way…and if they are really cops..and they get back on this site and claim that they have not witnessed reportable corruption…and looked the other way…well, you and I both know that is impossible if you are employed as a LEO..now..or a hundred years from now…or a hundred years ago…if Mark & Bystander have any credibility left…they will admit that their profession is polluted with miscreants who abuse the public on a regular basis…and as the “police” in Turkey are finding out…all those expensive toys are not going to do you any good when the people rise up and tire of the unconstitutional conduct on the part of government/police….the Turks are putting wet towels in the exhaust pipes of their big police tanks….wearing cut plastic bottles as gas masks….and filling light bulbs with paint to obscure the view of the police tanks and armored men in face shields…so when the people tire of your childish….liberty-sucking conduct…4th generation warefare is going to be a problem….however..I did notice that some Turkish Police were refusing to shoot the protestors..or shoot raw sewage at them… so maybe there are some decent people in the forces of police around the world?

          Regards,

          RJ O’Guillory
          Author-
          Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

        • RJO
          I had a nice nap, thank you.

          Why didn’t you say what you wanted to hear, sooner.
          I thought this thread was about traffic stops and the officer’s request to search persons and vehicles. I have responded accordingly.
          But, to answer your question/concern:
          I have never committed a crime, or knowingly violated anyone’s rights.
          I have never seen another officer do so. If I had, I would have thrown him/her under the bus.
          That being said, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen. A guy was pulled out of my academy class and arrested by the Feds for setting a car on fire (insurance fraud) and violating citizen’s contitutional rights.
          Another was arrested for selling stolen liquer.
          A whole team lost their jobs and faced criminal charges (I don’t know the full outcome) for planting evidence.
          Several officers have lost their jobs (forced to retire/resign) over smaller issues.
          I have heard stories, other officers tell, about violating the rights of others. I have told them not to ever do it in front of me, because I would not hesitate to tell the truth. I have been somewhat ostrisized for my reaction.
          And these are “just off the top of my head”. I’m sure other things would come to mind if I reflected over my 15 year career.

          So, are you happy now?

        • RJO, at what point did you think I would give you more credibilty than I do Mark or Bystander? I’m assuming that the title”Webster Groves-The Life Of An Insane Family” was in reference to your own family?

          Sorry dude, but after reading some of the eyeball crossing comments you made credibilty is not something I’m going to give you.

        • …yes, I know jwm…it is difficult for programmed, indoctrinated people to see beyond (or believe) things that seem to be beyond your scope of experience…since everything I’ve said is true…and my memoir is true and accurate…I have no interest in those that hide behind their systemic, programmed upbringing…I’ll tell you what…try sitting in on meetings of Federal Officials..as they plan and coordinate illegal behavior…and then tell me how “overblown” my comments are….

          Regards,

          RJ O’Guillory
          Author-
          Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

          p.s.-…..I’ll give you another fun bit of information that will make your jaw drop even further…all the things I’ve listed…going aboard Air Force One…living all around the world…climbing Mt. Fuji….managing a $20,000.00 a day bar on an abandoned soviet airbase in Hungary….open four hours a day…and we’d do twenty grand a night….you know why I was able to do all those things…? Because I was able to manage..and teach people to open and manage some of the highest volume restaurants in the world…I taught peole how to open McDonald’s, Burger Kings and Taco Bells…on miltiary installations around the world….McDonald’s that would do $150,000.00 a week in sales….Burger Kings that would do $25,000.00 a day..all in the desert, a swamp..or some other god-forsaken place…along with Cinnabons…Seattle’ Best Coffee..I’m certfied to run about twenty different businesses)…..also…bars…movie theaters….bookstores….teaching transactional analysis…management development….interpersonal communications…and…I was a Federally certified EEO Investigator…a Diversity Instructor….and I got to do all that…work in forest fires…war zones…getting picked up by the UN outside the city in Bosnia where they had just killed 40,000 people….so I’ve had a chance to see a lot of the good world..and the corrupt world…being a cop doesn’t give you any more rights or powers than the normal guy…but a sociopath doesn’t really concern themselves with all that..now do they?

        • Yadee Yadee Yadee yada… Sure do know how to pat yourself on the back. You get an A+ for that, and a big E for effort.
          But never once, have I heard you say you’ve been a cop.
          What I have tried to do here is INFORM people what we (cops) can do, can’t do, will do, won’t do. And I’ve informed them that it differs slightly from state to state.
          In return, I get all this hate mail from you and a few others.
          If you really think all cops are bad, then you should get with your state legislators and have them abolish all police dept’s. See if you like living better in anarchy.
          Go back and read the original story (article). It is about a lady who is stopped on a traffic stop, while carrying a gun in a bag, and she is asked by the cop if he could search the bag. Lets limit all future comments to that story.
          Good day.

        • Yes…I understand….I stood up for myself…explained my pov clearly…and some people agreed with me…I can see where that requires discipline and a parental ego-state response from yourself…oh, and I referred to some folks ideas and beliefs as idiotic and fascist…my god…send out the DHS….sorry to have penetrated your bubble…of which I never recall claiming to have been a member? Just born into the clan of the thin blue line….so I can understand your hesitance to discuss and debate the point further..or to allow the group to expand on a conversation you feel you are losing…by all means…even though the one guy said it was one of the more interesting threads…by all mean….discipline me…..

          Regards,

          RJ O’Guillory
          Author-
          Webster Groves-The Lif eof an Insane Family

          p.s.- soory if my spelling is a bit off..I’ve had a couple of seizures…the last few days…but thanks for the platform…until I broke the…. rules?

        • If anyone else wants to carry on a conversation, or ask any questions about traffic stops or warrantless searches, please feel free to ask. I would be glad to share my experiences, my understanding of case law, and/or techniques used.
          I like to teach (enlighten) the “good” citizens of our country, so that they don’t accidently get themselves in trouble with the law. I am a firm believer in the constitution and I encourage each and every one of you to know your constitutional rights along with when, where and how to use them. I don’t claim to know everything, but I do have 15 years experience and I’ve been exposed to lots of case laws and supreme court decisions. I don’t always agree with those decisions, but thats what discussion forums, like this, are all about.

  34. While the card may not be the best idea during a traffic stop, it may very well be educational for the “officer”. Most in my area would not be able to tell you in their own words what the 4th and 5th amendment say or the 1st thru the 3rd for that matter. Shameful.

  35. Law abiding cops have no trouble with this post, they agree and see the power of it for the CITIZENS of this great country to regain control.

    Cops who “receive” unlawful orders, and know that they have just been given an “unlawful” order, are duty bound, by their oath of office, to inform the person giving them that order, that it is an UNLAWFUL order, and you are placing them under arrest for issuing the order. It is a CRIME to knowingly issue UNLAWFUL ORDERS.

    But NO COP WILL DO THAT………..why??…………..because he doesn’t want to risk losing his job and his benefits or be called a SISSY by his fellow officers.

    NONE OF YOU POLICE OFFICERS regard the FACT that you have to take the OATH while you are a PRIVATE CITIZEN, just PRIOR, to taking the “public” office being entrusted to you. If you REFUSE to take the OATH, then you would not be hired.

    That OATH of office, is a VERBAL CONTRACT made in the presence of witnesses, and as such, you can be tried in a CIVIL COURT for breach of contract because it is NOT the OATH of a “public” official, it is the OATH of a “private” citizen to all other “private” citizens, that he will do ONE THING, and ONE THING ONLY. That ONE THING is to “support, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against ALL ENEMIES, both foreign and DOMESTIC.”

    DOMESTIC ENEMIES means ANYONE breaking the LAWS under the Constitution and abrogating the RIGHTS of the legal CITIZENS.

    When you ALLOW an UNLAWFUL ORDER to be presented, and you all KNOW it’s an unlawful order, and ALL OF YOU OFFICERS just stand there and take it without doing anything about it, you are ACCESSORIES to the CRIME by allowing a CRIMINAL to rule over you without you so much as challenging it.

    WE THE PEOPLE “pay you”. Not that “supervisor” or politician. We supply you with GUNS, and AMMO and ARMOUR, and TAZERS, and PEPPER SPRAY, and HANDCUFFS, and MOST OF ALL………………THE AUTHORITY to ARREST ANY LAW BREAKER including your SUPERIORS.

    YOU ALL HAVE PROVED TO BE COMPLETE “SELL-OUTS” to the Unions, and your paychecks and benefits. You don’t give a RAT’S A–S about the ONE THING you SWORE to do. That’s WHY the country is in the condition it’s in, because the COPS protect ALL the bad guys. Who gives a sh–t someone’s got some pot or a bottle of booze and “might” cause an accident or something. That’s SMALL POTATOES compared to DISARMING the CITIZENS and PROTECTING the politicians that are actively trying to DESTROY the U.S. Constitution. WE THE PEOPLE don’t need you to handle the “little sh–t”, WE THE PEOPLE can handle that easy enough, just leave us alone and let us wear OUR GUNS without YOU performing an UNLAWFUL, UNCONSTITUTIONAL ACT of trying to disarm US.

    HERE’S HOW WE STOP IT ALL.

    FOOLS !!! When are we going to TAKE BACK THE COUNTRY AND DO RIGHT????

    WHEN WILL YOU OPEN YOUR EARS AND EYES AND QUIT “TALKING” AND TAKE ACTION????

    The ONLY WAY to stop ALL of this ridiculous NONSENSE is for the nation to step up together on July 4, 2013, at 9 a.m. EST (6 a.m. PST).

    This is the DAY, DATE, and TIME real Americans can reclaim America from this OVERTHROW of all of our American values, and restore the freedom of the people. Only those with guns have power to rule, and that POWER belongs to the We the People………….not the public servants.

    Every year, on the SAME day, date, and time, 80 to 90 MILLION fully armed Americans step out into the public. It’s called “opening day” of hunting season, and NONE of those armed men and women go about trying to kill each other. We are Americans, and we have morals, and we know how to handle our weapons.

    We CAN DO THIS, America. Pass the word via e-mail, twitter, facebook, face to face, make flyers, call your talk show hosts………….get the word out. JULY 4, 2013….9 a.m. EST (6 a.m. PST) we ALL sling our rifles over our shoulders and strap on our pistols (fully loaded), wearing them as every day APAREL, and NEVER take them off again.

    Wear them in ALL PUBLIC VENUES………..it is our RIGHT………..the RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE.

    We will NOT go around shooting each other, and the CRIMINALS who decide they want to commit crimes while everyone around them is armed would be FOOLS and we will bring them down.

    Any cop trying to take our guns from us, we will charge with TREASON for actively engaging in the overthrow of the U.S. Constitutions 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 10th amendments by trying to enforce UNLAWFUL ORDERS, because these amendments to the Constitution have NOT EVER BEEN REPEALED, and they are SWORN to uphold the Constitution…………not their senior officers or some communist bureaucrat.

    The GOOD COPS, and there’s plenty of them out there, will CUFF them, AFTER WE MAKE A CITIZEN’S ARREST on the TREASONIST cops, and take them to jail, book’em, and let the courts deal with it from there.

    We the PEOPLE, will PROSECUTE these officers and politicians to the fullest extent of the law for TREASON and SEDITION, and we will PREVAIL!!!

    We can do this America. 80 – 90 MILLION of us TOGETHER against a total of 6 MILLION cops and active military……………and the MAJORITY of the cops and military want to be on OUR SIDE, standing with the Constitution.

    Once the PATRIOT COPS and SOLDIERS, see the 80 MILLION PATRIOT HUNTERS standing with them, they WILL step up and we WILL TAKE DOWN what is a TRUE MINORITY of cops and soldiers and the TREASONIST POLITICIANS and bureaucrats, and JAIL THEM.

    We can do it ALL without having to fire a single shot. We can have America back in less than 30 days but ONLY IF WE STEP OUT TOGETHER ON INDEPENDANCE DAY…………………..ANYONE INTERESTED???……………………….ANYONE GOT A BETTER IDEA ?????

    FOOLS !!! When are we going to TAKE BACK THE COUNTRY AND DO RIGHT????

    WHEN WILL YOU OPEN YOUR EARS AND EYES AND QUIT “TALKING” AND TAKE ACTION????

    The ONLY WAY to stop ALL of this ridiculous NONSENSE is for the nation to step up together on July 4, 2013, at 9 a.m. EST (6 a.m. PST).

    This is the DAY, DATE, and TIME real Americans can reclaim America from this OVERTHROW of all of our American values, and restore the freedom of the people. Only those with guns have power to rule, and that POWER belongs to the We the People………….not the public servants.

    Every year, on the SAME day, date, and time, 80 to 90 MILLION fully armed Americans step out into the public. It’s called “opening day” of hunting season, and NONE of those armed men and women go about trying to kill each other. We are Americans, and we have morals, and we know how to handle our weapons.

    We CAN DO THIS, America. Pass the word via e-mail, twitter, facebook, face to face, make flyers, call your talk show hosts………….get the word out. JULY 4, 2013….9 a.m. EST (6 a.m. PST) we ALL sling our rifles over our shoulders and strap on our pistols (fully loaded), wearing them as every day APAREL, and NEVER take them off again.

    Wear them in ALL PUBLIC VENUES………..it is our RIGHT………..the RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE.

    We will NOT go around shooting each other, and the CRIMINALS who decide they want to commit crimes while everyone around them is armed would be FOOLS and we will bring them down.

    Any cop trying to take our guns from us, we will charge with TREASON for actively engaging in the overthrow of the U.S. Constitutions 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 10th amendments by trying to enforce UNLAWFUL ORDERS, because these amendments to the Constitution have NOT EVER BEEN REPEALED, and they are SWORN to uphold the Constitution…………not their senior officers or some communist bureaucrat.

    The GOOD COPS, and there’s plenty of them out there, will CUFF them, AFTER WE MAKE A CITIZEN’S ARREST on the TREASONIST cops, and take them to jail, book’em, and let the courts deal with it from there.

    We the PEOPLE, will PROSECUTE these officers and politicians to the fullest extent of the law for TREASON and SEDITION, and we will PREVAIL!!!

    We can do this America. 80 – 90 MILLION of us TOGETHER against a total of 6 MILLION cops and active military……………and the MAJORITY of the cops and military want to be on OUR SIDE, standing with the Constitution.

    Once the PATRIOT COPS and SOLDIERS, see the 80 MILLION PATRIOT HUNTERS standing with them, they WILL step up and we WILL TAKE DOWN what is a TRUE MINORITY of cops and soldiers and the TREASONIST POLITICIANS and bureaucrats, and JAIL THEM.

    We can do it ALL without having to fire a single shot. We can have America back in less than 30 days but ONLY IF WE STEP OUT TOGETHER ON INDEPENDANCE DAY…………………..ANYONE INTERESTED???……………………….ANYONE GOT A BETTER IDEA ?????

    • Thom,
      Your idea would work, provided that the number of participants was at or above some critical mass. Sadly, we are not there yet, although we are getting closer by the day. The question is whether folks wake up/ become fed up, or the thugs tighten the screws sufficiently to prevent this first. Looks like things will come pretty much down to the wire, as usual throughout history. Interesting times, indeed, folks…

  36. I think handing a card like that to an officer who stops you for a traffic situation will get you a lot of extra checks, and maybe extra delay while he waits for a drug dog. If he has a possibility of arresting you or writing you a ticket, he will probably arrest you (he can impound your car and do an “inventory” of the contents). The police have a large amount of latitude in how they deal with situations (I know of one officer who did a traffic stop before the concealed carry laws went into effect – the person he stopped told him he had a gun in the car’s front seat for protection due to traveling – after taking a few minutes to check the driver, the officer gave him a warning for the traffic offense and let him go).
    I think most officers have seen videos of a traffic stop where officers were shot (normally the video shows “sovereign citizens” in Ohio), so the officers will be especially concerned if they get that sort of card handed to them.

  37. Hey JWM…I’m not the one in need of credibility…everything I have said (or written) on this site is 100% true…and I’m not the one employed by the people…. who seems to think that I can violate laws, rules, regulations or Consitutional Rights “…all because it’s effective”….or because “I am a Hunter!”….or even better..because…”I want to go home at night”?

    Well so does the long haul trucker..and the garbage man….or the Buger King Manager…but it is still my understanding that when you are hired to do a job, and are fully informed of the laws and regulations that govern that position….and then you purposefully violate those laws, rules or guidlines….you are worse than a common criminal…because you are using people’s faith in… “the system”…faith in “the process”…and you are screwing them with both the violation of their rights…and by showing that their are two classes of citizens…one for the lowly civillians…and another for the corrupt policing agency that allows the corruption to continue….but the corrupt cop’s impact on the rest of society will be much larger, more damaging….and in the end…creates a more corrupt society….so dear boy….it is the scummy police who need to be embarrassed and who are in need of credibility….kind of like those Police in Turkey…..it seems like their “credibility” has waned a bit over the last few days….

    …and if all of the “good cops” want to have their jobs made easier, safer and more respected..perhaps they should learn to behave as The Consitution calls for…and turn in more of their corrupt brothers and sisters?

    Regards,

    RJ O’Guillory
    Author-
    Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

  38. Your cards are cute, but I’m afraid they might offend law enforcement more than protect your rights. When stopped, I just address the officer with respect and throw myself on his mercy with a few tears. It has never failed me and the most I’ve ever gotten was a warning. Like my Dear Daddy taught me: Good manners will get you a lot further than a higher education!
    PS This even worked when I was clocked at 65 in a 45! And I’m not a beautiful young girl – I’m a 62 year old lady who carries.

  39. After a trip to the range one morning, I stopped at the local library. Since they weren’t open yet, so I had about 15 minutes to wait, I decided to use the time to reload my guns with hollowpoints and repack my range bag. Evidently somebody saw me and got nervous, because when I exited the library there were 2 patrol cars and 4 city cops waiting for me. One officer, who was parked so that I could not leave my parking space, was walking alongside my car as I came out. I have quite a collection of stickers on my car, so I asked if he was catching up on his reading. He asked if that was my car and I said yes. He then asked if I had guns and ammo in the car, and I calmly told him yes, I’d just come from the range. I showed my concealed carry permit, acknowledged that I was carrying, and they moved and let me go, apologizing for any inconvenience, but saying that when a call like that comes in they have to check it out. My friends still chuckle at my being suspected of being a terrorist–I’m a 5’1″ grey-haired female.

    • That incident went as it should have.
      Police have to respond to suspicious circumstance calls. The law tells them that they have to let you go, as soon as their suspicions are disapated.
      Your honesty and forthrightness dispelled their suspicions very quickly. They did the right thing by thanking you for your time, then letting you go.

        • I’m not perfect. I’ve made my mistakes. I’ve had Sgt’s and Lt’s who have set me straight. In one case, after having a case dropped by the state attorney, they sent me to a class on “search and seizure”. My Sgt. went too. He said he goes every year to keep up on new case law.
          No cop is perfect. We learn as we go. But we strive to do it all correctly.

        • Problem is when WE make a mistake it’s a fine or jail time. When YOU make a mistake it’s cause for a training class!

        • If you could only see the piles of WARNINGS that I write.
          I write tickets when the offender is “knowingly” committing an infraction.
          And, I didn’t write these laws; your fellow representatives did.
          I’m all for smaller gov’t. And that means less laws. Start with the laws that are not enforcable. But, when I have a bad guy, in hand, I hate loosing a case, or getting it thrown out on a technicality. Lets get rid of the foolish technicalities that do nothing but protect the bad guys.

        • …I know I’m just supposed to be Eyore here….keep my head down…my opinion to myself….but my gosh…I had a seizure a couple of days ago and my self-control… well it’s just gone to he-double hockey sticks……but I would like to say to Mark… son…if the perception of the populace was the same as yours…with regards to yourself and your law-enforcing brethren….then we’d have no issue’s…we know there are too many laws…and that by having you responsible for enforcing laws of personal choice..ie., drug use…prostitution….etc, those enforcement activities take you away from finding the real criminals…those government corrupt actors…and those violent actors in our society….and if all police / leo’s behaved in the fashion you seem to…..fashion yourself…don’t you think the perception would exist of a fair, dis-passionate police force that follows the Constitution?

          But it does not…so ask yourself…why is that? Why does a lot of society see the police as simply an extension of the corruption that has surrounded them all of their lives…in business, government..law…?

          You see Mark…we are not responsible for shaping those societal perceptions…those perceptions are birthed out of the behaviors and actions of corrupt law enforcement ….. and too many laws…..

          Regards,

          RJ O’Guillory
          Author-
          Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

          p.s.- Mark…don’t you yet understand….that those “technicalities” are there to protect the innocent..and the guilty…so that we may devine who the real guilty are supposed to be..? If you wnat to do away with a technicality…how about we do away with immunity for government officials…eh?

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  43. I was sitting in my truck drinking a cup of coffee at a local convenience store that I frequent everyday many patrons know me the owners and employees know me. So I sit there drinking my coffee smoking a cigarette and playing on my phone… I had a figaroa hat on and a pair of dark sunglasses and was looking down at my lap at my phone and apparently from what I’m told it looked like I was sleeping– I wasn’t but what’s the big deal if I was? So supposedly a patron that did not know me called the first responders to come check on me.. So suddenly this guy shows up in plain clothes no emergency personnel identification does not identify him self and tells me he has to get in my truck to check me out to make sure I’m ok.. I’m like first of all I don’t know who you are and second of all as you could see I’m perfectly fine (was actually looking down at my lap playing with my phone when he appeared.. So he pulled my door open and I pulled it shut then be said something and went on his way- well 2 mins later cops show up- block me bang on my window then pull my door open as I also kept my hand on door so be could t get it all the way open a d starts telling me he has to search my truck a d could I please get out.. I said no, what’s your probable cause and he did not respond this went back and forth a little while then he suddenly rips me from the truck throws me on the ground beats the crap out of me and puts me in his car in cuffs and the. He and 3 officers searched my truck and of course found nothing but sports items from my son… They charged me with obstructing a government operation and with resisting arrest- mind you they never told me I was under arrest.. Very nice cops we have here and I ain’t know young kid that looks suspicious

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