BREAKING: Square Drops All Firearm and Ammunition Retailers

Square, Inc. – the up and coming mobile credit card processor for the masses – has decided to make a change to their user agreement today. I’m a gun merchant, so whenever a processor tells me that there’s a change to the user agreement it means my fees are about to go up or I need to find a new processor. In this case, it was the latter. Square has decided to drop all transactions related to firearm and ammunition sales as well as “weapons and other devices designed to cause physical injury,” whatever those may be. I took a quick skim through the language . . .

and I figured it was mostly boilerplate. So naturally, just to be sure, I hit CTRL-F and typed in firearm. Note, the bold sections are my emphasis.

Old Square Seller Agreement:

By creating a Square Account, you also confirm that you will not accept payments in connection with the following businesses or business activities: (1) any illegal activity, (2) buyers or membership clubs, … 23) internet/mail order/telephone order firearm or weapon sales, (24) internet/mail order/telephone order cigarette or tobacco sales,

NEW Square Seller Agreement:

By creating a Square Account, you also confirm that you will not accept payments in connection with the following businesses or business activities: (1) any illegal activity or goods, (2) buyers or membership clubs, … (23) sales of (i) firearms, firearm parts or hardware, and ammunition; or (ii) weapons and other devices designed to cause physical injury

In other words, before the change, Square was happy as a clam to be used for face-to-face firearms sales. But now, they don’t even want to be used if all you’re buying is something as innocuous as a new pair of grips for your 1911. All deals involving firearms are no longer allowed to be processed through Square.

Taking into account the sheer number of gun show vendors who sell knives, ammo and beef jerky (you could put someone’s eye out with that venison stick!), does anyone have ideas for adaptive recycling of all those square readers we can no longer use?

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About FirearmConcierge

FC is a 2010 graduate of the University of Never been Done Before in Baton Rouge, Louisiana where he majored in abnormal psychology and firearm sales. Upon graduation, he founded a small firearm enterprise that does not negotiate with terrorists or people spending less than $10,000. He is TTAG's resident FFL holder/manufacturer/purveyor of assorted awesomeness and when he isn't shutting up and taking people's money or insulting their firearm decisions to their face, he enjoys cooking with uzi, the occasional skeet shoot, bourbon and anything to do with large breasted women and sub machineguns. He can be reached at firearmconcierge@gmail.com and followed on Twitter, @FirearmConcierg

204 Responses to BREAKING: Square Drops All Firearm and Ammunition Retailers

  1. avatarMatt in FL says:

    I got my new Square Seller Agreement today, and I deleted it without reading. Fascinating to see what I missed. I don’t sell firearms or parts, but I won’t be using Square in the future anymore in any case.

    I know PayPal just came out with their own version of the card reader, but they’re not gun-friendly either, so anyone know an alternative?

    • avatarPulatso says:

      PayPal is anti gun too? They must love that the NRA takes PayPal for membership dues. I used it to pay for two memberships last weekend.

      • avatarHerb says:

        I have used PayPal to pay for firearms & it is much faster than money orders, etc. Vendors ask that the buyer select `goods’ or other nonspecific in transfering funds.

        Maybe Square Seller thinks their little device facilitates the selling of guns from car trunks, who knows?

        So much PC about guns; this really is a culture war.

        • avatarsnipe4fun says:

          Yeah, I’m not selling ‘guns’ I’m selling ‘goods’. lol

        • avatarTotenglocke says:

          PayPal is VERY anti-gun. I bought a disconnector for a p-64 off of gunbroker and the seller only takes paypay and insisted I do NOT use anything referencing a gun in the send order, just use the auction number.

        • avatarmnoswad1 says:

          Culture war is right. By proxy its New York vs. Nascar.

      • avatarInBox485 says:

        Paypal isn’t anti-gun. They made a business decision not to handle transactions for firearms based on the cost of self regulating and monitoring all the local BS laws. What these other processors are doing is different. They are shielded in a way that paypal isn’t and they have zero liability if a vendor runs afoul of some obscure law. The other processors are being bullied by the FED to adopt anti gun policies.

        • avatartekkitan says:

          Um, yes, Paypal is anti-gun. Ebay is anti-gun. Both the same company. It is a well known fact the CEO is anti-gun.

    • avatarRoscoe says:

      Cash.
      Check with a clearance confirmation.

      Bloomberg’s fingers and/or money has to be involved in these restrictions on processing firearms and firearms related transactions in SOME way, even if it is just FEAR of being called out by one of his minion groups for facilitating gun buyers purchases.

    • avatarJPD says:

      I use this in my business. Personal too. No way they would know what I sold at a gun show. When you swipe the card, you type in the item or a comment. So now the Ruger will be a “hammer”.

      Another joke, like Feds trying to catch up to “plastic guns”……..good luck with that.

      • avatarJay Hanig says:

        The plastic gun cow has already left the barn. The feds shut down the original Liberator plan site but I note that the Pirate Bay has a whole section of 3D plans available for download, including the ones the feds tried to stifle. They’ve never figured out that in the Information Age, trying to censor intellectual material is like trying to pick up a waterbed mattress by yourself. Good luck shutting down those off shore servers. They’d get better results teaching cats ballet.

      • avatarSher says:

        True there’s no way to know what you’re selling BUT do you want to support them with 2.79% of your fees? I choose do drop them completely if you can’t support the second ammendment right than I don’t support you

    • avatarDJ says:

      Platinum Payment Services would love to have your business.

      1.888.752.8644

      http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/04/daniel-zimmerman/platinum-payment-services/

    • avatarAshley says:

      this is complete crap! I sell stun guns and pepper spray and now they are saying that they won’t allow the transactions? That is fine I will find someone else who is more than happy to collect the percentages of the sales. I hope they understand how stupid this makes them sound and I guess that means you can’t sell hammers or pencils or cars either!

  2. avatarST says:

    Considering the deplorable state of our modern banking and credit system,the company has done us a favor.

    Leave the MasterCard at home,and do your purchases the old fashioned way.

    • avatarDon says:

      moonshine!

    • avatarDr. Kenneth Noisewater says:

      If there’s no cash discount, then I’d rather get the cashback off my card. They already got my Form 4473, they have all the info they need, privacy ‘protections’ be damned.

      If you have a card with decent cashback (2+%) and pay it off in full each month, you should be using it and scalping back a bit of the cost that’s baked into everything now, unless the cash discount you get is better than your cashback.

    • avatarTacticalDad says:

      22 Long Rifle Wampum?

  3. avatarSD3 says:

    Need more info: how do I boycot them as a consumer?

    • avatarStevieP says:

      USE CASH!

    • It’s actually quite easy to boycott them. Square is used primarily by small businesses. If you give someone a credit card and they pull out a mobile device (cell phone, tablet, etc.) with a white square sticking out of it, that is Square. They get paid 2.75% from every transaction. So, if you see someone doing this, take a little extra time, visit the nearest ATM, and pay cash.

      • avatarSD3 says:

        Got it. Never heard of them until now.
        They’re on “the list” now.
        Thanks to all.

      • avatarAecDuck says:

        Square is not the only option for mobile payment processing, so check with your payee what service they use if you plan to boycott Square (as I plan to).

    • avatarMatt in FL says:

      Square is a credit card acceptance device and service, used by many small retailers who either don’t want or don’t have the volume for an actual merchant account with a bank. You often find them, as FirearmConcierge pointed out, at gun shows, also flea markets and farmers markets. Anywhere there is low-volume retail going on. You usually know if they’re using Square if they’re swiping your card through a little square reader plugged into their cell phone. If you want to see what they look like, go to squareup.com

  4. avatarBill Derer says:

    Well, if I ever needed a reason to not use Square….

  5. avatarMichael B. says:

    **** you, Square.

    That is all.

  6. avatarFrank Williams says:

    So… you can’t use Square to buy baseball bats, kitchen knives, razors, scissors, chain saws, or cast iron frying pans? After all, if misused, they can all “cause physical injury” just like guns can when they’re misused.

    • avatarBob Wall says:

      Nor office supplies, b/c paper cuts hurt like a mother!

    • avatarRob Eide says:

      Or PRESSURE COOKERS!

    • avatarMatt in FL says:

      On the internet you can’t tell hyperbole from ignorance, so I’m going to take my usual road and assume the worst.

      Your premise is wrong because you didn’t read, or didn’t understand the two words that preceded “cause physical injury.” Those two words were “designed to.” None of your examples are designed to cause physical injury.

      If I was wrong in assuming the worst, and you were simply demonstrating a hyperbolic oversimplification, then you’re not wrong, you’re just kinda silly, and not helping.

      • avatarRalph says:

        All my baseball bats are designed to cause personal injury. If they weren’t, I wouldn’t buy them.

      • avatarsnipe4fun says:

        Since when are pistol grips are designed to cause physical injury?

        • avatarMatt in FL says:

          Jesus, do you people actively avoid reading what is placed directly in front of you? Pistol grips are not designed to cause physical injury, but that is irrelevant, because that’s section ii. Grips are covered neatly under section i: (23) sales of (i) firearms, firearm parts or hardware, and ammunition;

        • avatartheaton says:

          Matt,
          A hocky puck must be designed to cause physical injury. If not, why do goalies wear so much protective gear. Same thing for football equipment. Baseballs must be desinged to cause physical injury, otherwise batters would not need to wear batting helmets. Kinves are designed to cause physical injury. Mouse traps and poisons are designed to cause physical injury and even death. The same for bug spray. Hypodermic needles and scalpals are designed to cause physical injury.

          The fact is, liberals are the most hypocritcal humans on the planet.

        • avatarMatt in FL says:

          Actually, I kinda wondered about knife companies. Some knives are clearly designed for “fighting,” others are clearly designed for “utility,” but there’s a lot of crossover. I wonder how Square would/will handle those retailers.

          As for the rest of your examples, well, they’re kinda stupid, but I’m assuming that was on purpose.

        • avatarWayne says:

          What about boxing gloves, martial arts foot and hand pads? Kendo sticks? Nun-chucks? Airsoft?

  7. avatarPwrserge says:

    I’d ignore them. They have no way of proving what the items in the transaction are so no legal recourse to stop you using the account for whatever you want.

    • avatarWilliam Burke says:

      “No way of proving”: I’m pretty sure you’re engaging in wishful thinking.

      “No recourse to stop”: If… no, WHEN they refuse the transaction, your moral high ground becomes a glass parking lot.

    • avatarMatt in FL says:

      I don’t think you understand how their system works. They accept payment, and it’s usually for a pre-existing inventory item. Like a tiny cash register. You select the item you sold, you accept payment, they provide (via email or text) an itemized receipt to the customer. I suppose you could go to the trouble of giving all your “prohibited” items an alias to skirt their system, but (1) you’re still giving them money, and (2) if they find out, they’ll lock up your account (and whatever money it contains and is due to you) so fast it’ll make your head spin. Then you can argue with them for however many months it takes to get them to free up your money, like the people who have argued with PayPal under similar circumstances. Please note the language of Section 17, Payouts:

      Should Square need to conduct an investigation or resolve any pending dispute related to your Square Account, we may defer payout or restrict access to your funds for the entire time it takes for us to do so.

    • avatarSAS 2008 says:

      No way of proving? I do not agree. Most businesses make it obvious what they are selling just by their business name. The local “xxyyzzz Indoor Shooting Range” would have a hard time saying they are not selling firearms or firearms related products and I have seen them use square readers.

      • avatarTravis M says:

        Also, if a customer tried to dispute their charge for whatever reason it could come back to you that they bought stuff from you that is against Squares TOS. You would need to prove product delivery and they would want a record of that which will easily prove what they purchased from you. Or, you let them win the dispute and you lose the money.

  8. avatarrabbi says:

    I was going to start using them and my wife currently does. That will change instantly

  9. avatarBob Wall says:

    Remember, friends don’t let friends be Square!

  10. avatarAtlas_Shrugs says:

    Target practice.

  11. avatarC says:

    Damn it. My favorite microbrewery uses square.

    • avatarMatt Richardson says:

      My local microbrewery does…. Very upset about this news.

      No more White St. brews for me :(

      • avatarPulatso says:

        You could just pay cash. The brewery gets more to keep that way. At least if you are going to stay away, send them an e-mail and tell them why. They might be gunnies too.

  12. avatarKevin says:

    My wife and I just moved our business online a few weeks ago. It took us a long time to figure out how to proceed with a website provider. We chose Squarespace. 2 our 3 days ago they emailed notice that they to updated their terms of service to exclude firearms, firearm parts & ammunition. Now we have to start the search again, as it will just be a matter of time before we are shutdown.

    • avatarneiowa says:

      Well tell them why you are dumping them. No email addy on their website.

    • avatartheaton says:

      This is where the commerce clause actually applies. It reads, “To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;”

      To regulate means to make regular. In other words, the federal government is to make commerce among the states regular. A busniness in one state should not be able to sell products to one state for one set of terms and to another state for another set of terms. A bank or credit processor should not be able to cast moral judgement on a product unless the product is illegal.

  13. avatarInBox485 says:

    I’m to the point where anybody that if I sell something, firearms or not, it is cash or silver. Fu<k the banking system.

  14. avatarJon says:

    Credit Union only please.

  15. avatarg says:

    Booo. Sadly, it’s a useful service… a friend of mine runs a trendy food truck (think: tasty food at hole-in-the-wall prices) and uses it to process purchases when people don’t have cash. I could see SQUARE being super useful for FTF firearms deals, where the parties want to safely transfer money without having to haul around a stack of cash.

    Funny enough, I think there was also report of Jezebel or other blog that SQUARE has also become popular with escorts, who use to bill their clients for their *ahem* services, using harmless sounding titles like *ABC Private Consulting*. Escorts will large amounts of cash have been targets for stick-up kids / wannabe gangsters, who know the ladies won’t go to police if they get robbed because that would mean disclosing what they do to earn said cash…

  16. avatarDB says:

    So I won’t be able to buy that hammer or staple gun using Square…?

  17. So does refinishing firearms count?

    • avatarFirearmConcierge says:

      I’d suggest you ask them.

      • avatarJill C says:

        I may be a bit late to this game, but we are a hard cast lead bullet manufacturer that dropped Square like a hot potato (too hip to be Square). Whether we are included or not, a company that is not 2A friendly, doesn’t deserve our business. Even if they changed their minds back, they lose our business for being selfish and stupid.

    • avatarWilliam Burke says:

      What do YOU think the answer is? I don’t think you’re going to be a satisfied ex-customer. Okay, “customer” isn’t precisely the right word; what IS the category for what they do? I suppose it would be called a “service”.

      • avatarMatt in FL says:

        If they’re providing a service that you’re taking advantage of, you’re a customer.

  18. avatarPulatso says:

    I’m pretty sure my wife uses a different reader for her dance classes, but I will be confirming.

  19. avatarGS650G says:

    So who pressured them to change the policy? I doubt it was conscience since they are a banking institution and lack any morals.

  20. avatarXbonesrider says:

    blah blah, go right ahead and ban firearm purchases. The gun industry is probably the only industry that has added jobs and experienced growth since Obama took office. I’m sure some other processor will love to have our business.

  21. Howard Schultz, the CEO of Starbucks, sits on the Board for Square, Inc. As many of you know, Starbucks has supported firearms carrying in their retail establishments, despite boycotts from gun opposition groups. I wonder what he thinks of the recent policy change?

    • avatarFirearmConcierge says:

      Starbucks does not support carrying of firearms in their retail operations.

      They do not have anything against it.

      Not having a policy prohibiting something is not the same as supporting it.

  22. avatarMatt says:

    Just sent them a nice email asking how I terminate my account for their lack of support for my 2nd Amendment rights. I don’t run a firearm business, but I’ll go to Paypal Here or Intuit GoPayment, neither of which I can find has firearms rules in their TOS.

    • avatarFirearmConcierge says:

      Matt, I hate to break the news to you but both the processors that you mentioned do not allow for firearms and related merchandise to be transacted. If you didn’t find the firearm rule, you didn’t look hard enough.

    • avatarRichard W. says:

      I am trying to find it in the Intuit TOS now. I am thinking they don’t care, as they are a full service merchant services company, with physical swipe as well. Safe bet probably is Intuit GoPayment.

      • avatarRichard W. says:

        Yeah, I saw it Intuit (http://intuitpayments.com/legal):

        (c) Permitted Use Policy. Merchant agrees that it will not conduct business in furtherance of any of the following businesses or business activities: illegal products or services of any kind; adult oriented products or services including video streaming, audio text; airlines; annual billing / sales; auto performance chips (fuel economy, etc.); bail bonds; bankruptcy attorneys; cable box de-scramblers; collection agencies or collection attorneys; credit repair / credit card protection; credit counseling, restoration or repair; dating services; drug paraphernalia; escort services; freight forwarders; gambling, gaming, lottery sales, grab bags, raffles, or sweepstakes; hair growth and or replacement products; import / export; internet “fulfillment houses” (aggregator, multiple merchants with same mid); lifetime guarantee products or lifetime memberships; loan modification or mortgage reduction services; mailing lists and personal information; pharmaceuticals non-face to face (including business to business); occult materials; online auctions; outbound telemarketing; personal enhancement products (teeth whitening, acai berry, etc); precious metal or stamps; pyramid sales; racism, violence, abuse, discrimination, or other immoral activities; rebate, refund or prize-based businesses; securities brokers; sports forecasting or odds making; telephone service, rechargeable, phone cards, VOIP; timeshares or future delivered services; travel, travel clubs, cruise lines; and any of the following business types where payment is made via the internet, mail order, telephone order or other card not present method: coin dealers / sales; firearms, weapons or fireworks; psychic readings; tobacco products or sales. Intuit maintains full discretion in determining whether or not to provide services to a Merchant irrespective of the underlying nature of the goods or services provided by such party.

        • avatarLayne says:

          Automotive performance chips? WTF!?

        • avatarPhelps says:

          Those are all products with high dispute rates. The issue isn’t the morality of the particular product, it’s that a high percentage of people demand (expensive) investigations and chargebacks in those industries.

          The thing is, those sort of things happen for guns in “card not present” transactions. That’s why Square’s original policy made sense, but not the current policy. If the card is present, there is generally a very very low chargeback rate for any industry, and especially guns (where there are other forms backing up you actually buying the product, like the 4473.)

  23. avatarJames1000 says:

    How would they know what is being purchased and what would be the legal recourse if they found out? Not being rhetorical, just trying to understand. I am not a merchant but have purchased many firearms and accesories from vendors who use square.

    • avatarJPD says:

      They can’t. When someone buys a firearm from me at a gun show. I swipe the card. Then, in the comments field, I put something generic. Like a stock #.

      So a Ruger Scout, would be #6814.

      No way they will figure this out, they are too stupid.

      • avatarDfens says:

        All it would take is one crafty customer to “contest” your charges and there would be nothing you could do about it since the transaction violated the ToS.

      • avatarJill C says:

        But why would you want them to have your business?

  24. avatarGMgunsmith says:

    Try http://ipowerpay.com/ Most internet marketing companies use them. I had them for a while when I had my Internet eCommerce site.

  25. avatarJoke & Dagger says:

    This nonsense has to be coming down from above, by order of the Obama thugs. This is an ongoing war, on multiple fronts, some more visible or direct than others.

    • avatarWilliam Burke says:

      +100

      When someone declares war on you, you ARE involved in a war, whether you wanted to be or not. If you don’t find ways to fight back with anything and everything necessary to win, YOU WILL LOSE. Your freedom to avoid conflict becomes null and void. Nothing can change the fact that you’re in a war.

  26. avatarC says:

    It’s not like there’s zero competition. there are perhaps a dozen different types of smartphone card readers and if my source is to be trusted, square isn’t even a very desirable one. http://iphone-card-reader-review.toptenreviews.com/

  27. avatarBlehtastic says:

    I used to be a no cash ever kind of guy, but I think I’m gonna start being a cash whenever possible kind of guy.

  28. avatarBrian says:

    Rather than a boycott list it might be more useful to maintain a list of service providers who are gun friendly (or at least neutral). If nothing else it may give rise to new companies seeking to fill an identifiable niche in the market

  29. avatarElephant Rider says:

    Starve the beast and use cash!
    Barter or buy second hand to avoid sales tax.
    Don’t give the cc companies their 2-3% commission, rather put that money in the pockets of the seller.
    Want a REAL boost to the economy? Pay in cash. Forget plastic.
    And while you’re at it, join a credit union.

  30. avatartheaton says:

    Imagine if Square stopped processing for a gay, black or hispanic organization? The uproar would be immediate and loud.

    I live in New Mexico. A photographer here recently refused to photograph a gay couple. The photographer was sued and she lost. Liberals are more hypocritical than the rest of the population.

    • avatarColoradan says:

      It’s okay to hate the old, white, Christian, male, gun owners in this New America of ours. Oh those liberals are so tolerant.

    • avataruncle nunzie says:

      While I agree that Square is wrong, you might consider they changed their policy because of what people were doing, not because of who they are.

      • avatarMatt in FL says:

        What the heck does that even mean? “Who they are.”

        I am the NRA.

      • avatartheaton says:

        people are doing the samething they were doing yesterday and they are the same people they were yesterday. You seem to see a distinction without a difference.

  31. avatarScott L. Spencer says:

    Buy from local gun shops. They need your support too, & you can cash & carry rather than wait for shipping. I just don`t understand the uproar. Nobody is capable of getting up off the chair & going to the store??? Everyone has to sit on their butt & buy online or it`s a cataclysmic, earth-ending event???? I must be old school, I would rather go look, touch, feel, try out, but, & take it the f home. (jees!!)

    • avatarMatt in FL says:

      I understand what you’re saying, but you’re misunderstanding the primary people who use this device. It’s not online shoppers and sellers. This is not a brick & mortar versus online argument. It’s small merchants, like people at gun shows. Square (and services like it) allow merchants to accept credit cards who are otherwise unable or unwilling to establish full-blown merchant accounts with their banks. Those accounts require a certain volume, and are not cheap. Prior to the existence of services like this, most of those merchants would simply be “cash only.”

      Of the last 5 gun show purchases I made, one was cash, two were credit/debit card through conventional merchant devices, and two were credit/debit card through Square (or similar) devices. I can tell you for a fact that one of those Square retailer purchases would not have occurred if they were “cash only.” It was only about $70, but I didn’t have that much on me, and I wasn’t going to pay the ATM at the gun show almost $5 to get the cash out. That’s a flashlight I wouldn’t own, and a sale the retailer would not have made. That’s the guys that this kind of BS is taking out of the picture.

  32. avatarGMgunsmith says:

    Well guys, if they can boycott us we can boycott them. I just sent this contact submission to Square on their contact page. How about everyone jumping and sending them a contact “Termination of Use” message also. If we can get everyone here and in the NRA to send them a message they might get the message that a boycott works both ways.

    TO: https://squareup.com/help/en-us/contact
    Subject: Termination of Use

    Dear Square,
    I just heard about your change in your terms of service when you will not allow processing of transaction relating to firearms and ammo sales. Many of my clients use your processing at this time I just want you to know that I will be boycotting your service for my new web sites and all of my other web site services plus “any merchant that uses your service.”

    Additionally, I will be changing all of my client’s processor services that currently use Square to a different processing service.

    Regards,
    Gregg Sterner
    GMGunsmiths.com
    NetworkEngineeringServices.com

  33. avatarRob says:

    Square can suck it. Until today, I was a member. I don’t put any descriptions on my transactions, but the fact they changed this verbiage really pisses me off. I had PAI (gun friendly), but they are too expensive for me. I only do a few cc transactions per month; so the $15/mo statement fee didn’t make sense to me. It is cash only for me now, but I guess I can pass that 2.75% savings on to my customers now..

  34. avatarColoradan says:

    I thought we lived in a nation of laws and broad mined, tolerant, NYC liberals.

  35. avatarMabelLou Brown says:

    If I were to sell a gun or amunition, I would make out a paper invoice for the customer with the number, or whatever, listed, and then type in something like furniture, produce, etc. If you don’t type it in, it’s not ever going to show up!!!

  36. avatarChris says:

    At what point will gun owners wake up and begin voting with their wallets? I read in the comments here that Paypal is no longer gun friendly, yet it is what we use to buy our NRA memberships. What?

    If the NRA or GOA wants to become more relevant, how about an article/database/listing of national retailers that are “gun friendly”. Think Friend or Foe website: http://friendorfoe.us/

    At the end of the day, hold all the demonstrations you want to on State House steps, write your congresspeople and the Pres every single day. Nothing slows drivers down in a speed zone more than a $293 speeding ticket. People and corporations will REALLY begin to understand it when they feel it in their wallets.

    • avatarGMgunsmith says:

      I’m moving all of my client’s processing services away from Square. I’m going to take approx. 50+ customers away from them. Each of my clients are gun friendly and go with me to shot at the range throughout the year. Several years ago when PayPal changed their position (acquired by eBay) I moved 85 clients away from them. Now I’m going to do it to Square. I hope everyone will leave a contact message on Square’s site telling them you are going to boycott all merchants that use their processing service.

      https://squareup.com/help/en-us/contact

  37. avatarChris Dumm says:

    To: Square
    From: chris@_____.___
    Subject: Objection to your new Seller Agreement

    Dear Square,

    I was going to use you to process credit card retainer payments for my law firm. Your new ‘Seller Agreement’ prohibits Square users from processing credit cards used to purchase firearms, ammunition, or parts.

    I do about $100k a year in billing, but I will not do business with enemies of my right to keep and bear arms. Perhaps Senators Feinstein or Bloomberg can shuffle some business your way (Bloomberg is a billionaire) but you can kiss my business goodbye.

    In addition, ANY time I see one of your little dongles attached to a vendor’s iPad or smart phone, I will either pay with cash or skip that purchase entirely. You don’t have any problems accepting payments for sex toys or drug paraphernalia, but you’ve chosen to demonize firearms and those who own them.

    This will prove to be foolish. There are a lot of us.

    If and when you stop sucking, I’ll reconsider my position. Don’t bother writing back unless and until that happens.

    Later,

    Chris Dumm
    Attorney At Law

  38. avatarBill Moss says:

    If they won’t process gun sales then gun owners should not use their services for anything else.

  39. avatarj says:

    There is a tear in the fabric of this society that is growing by the day. There is little cause to believe this is temporary. Even if 2014 buys us a little time on the second amendment protection front, it will only be temporary. We are rapidly being culled.

    • avatarRobert Farago says:

      Or not.

      • avatarTom in Oregon says:

        Being the eternal optomist, I prefer to think that it is “We” who are doing the culling.

    • avatarJames1000 says:

      We will only be culled if we allow it to happen. Perhaps you have culled yourself….the lot of us, not so much.

      • avatarj says:

        You don’t “cull yourself”. But if you think most of this is still a minority issue, you aren’t looking deep enough. The majority of politicians are democrats or left leaning repubs. They got there because the majority agree with their left-listing claptrap or because they haven’t the knowledge or courage to walk their talk in the voting booths. Either way, it appears, a larger segment of society than we may want to believe, supports this kind of insanity…that was the point of my comment. And I am neither an optomist or a pessimist. I am a realist and would rather see the fight that is coming than conjure for my eyes what my mind and heart would prefer.

        • avatarJames1000 says:

          So, by rationale we should just accept that things are going to change for the worse and wait for the fight. Got it…

      • avatarJ says:

        No; you talk about it, take the stands we generally do when debating it, bitch at one another about how damned foolish their commentary is (which is pretty common on this blog) and VOTE.

        But if you have some other plan, you might want to enlighten those of us who haven’t figured it out rather than deriding every single comment that doesn’t suit your fancy!

        And my point still stands; the majority are calling the shots based on sheer numbers; not whether they are right or even smart, simply due to sheer numbers.

    • avatarammo-Zombie says:

      Ahh those with ammo don’t get culled…..
      hence the 2A

    • avatarJmcaul says:

      The tares are being separated from the wheat.

      • avatarJ says:

        You are correct there. I hope I’m wrong but it sure feels like the tares outweigh the wheat right now.

        • avatarG.R. Mead says:

          The ascendancy of the evil must happen. In the parable, tares and wheat are indistinguishable until they bear their seed. This is why they have to be allowed to grow to maturity. Both eventually display their true nature. When they have, we will not lose valuable wheat by mistake when we tear out the tares by the root.

        • avatarj says:

          G.R. Mead; thanks for that. I know the parable well. Globally and Spiritually speaking, this is very true. Eschatologically, it is disheartening that the US has nothing more than a passing mention in Ezekiel. Our struggle to convince the growing masses of theunconvinced that the Constitution should not be toyed with, that inalienable means just that, that rights are endowed by God and that history expressly details the events which very definitively tell us what the Founders iintended when the included firearms ownership protections in the Bill of Rights, will not have any global implications but will certainly redefine us should we fail.

  40. avatarSGC says:

    Just one more sneaky, underhanded stab from the gun grabber crowd. They are all about financial warfare when it comes to guns, we should be the same. UNITE and boycott use of any and all products, services, and such that openly oppose your 2a rights.

    • avatarBob2 says:

      And I might add that it makes a difference. Once I found out about what Dicks Sporting Goods did, I stopped buying from them. I checked, and I spent about $5000 on them over 2 years, which is not much. I recently read that Dicks isn’t doing so well. If enough people boycott, it makes a difference.

  41. avatarTheSleeperHasAwakened says:

    Maybe Bitcoin can pick up the slack for Firearm and Ammo dealers

  42. avatarJeffCren says:

    If you have online sales, take a look at Stripe.com – they don’t have the little scanner device for your phone, but they process online sales (and you can manually enter sales via their dashboard). There are also apps for iPhone and Android that let you manually process payments. I just read through their ToS and there is no mention of firearms, guns, or ammunition.

    • avatarFirearmConcierge says:

      That would be correct.

      There is no mention if firearms, guns or ammunition.

      Just this part – “By registering for Stripe, you are confirming that you will not use the Service to accept payments in connection with the following businesses, business activities or business practices: …(48) weapons and munitions “

    • avatarMatt in FL says:

      “which has been mentioned on the site before”

      Where? It has? I haven’t seen it? Are you sure? Could you point me to somewhere it’s been linked?

      Stop.

  43. avatarJOE MATAFOME says:

    I’ll never buy anything from any merchant who uses these no good COMMIES, and I’ll be sure to tell them why I won’t do business with them. I won’t even use cash with anyone who supports these morons.

    • avatarJmcaul says:

      Sadly, most cashiers at the larger volume retailers will just look at you like you have two heads when you explain this to them. They do not understand and they do not care about anything but their next meal.

  44. avatarAharon says:

    Wow! Before I looked them up and confirmed it I sensed that this company would be based in San Francisco.

    wiki:

    “Starbucks chief executive officer Howard Schultz becoming a board member of Square, Inc”

    “Square’s current office is located in the Chronicle Building on Mission Street in the South of Market neighborhood of San Francisco”
    — located in the SF Chronicle Newspaper building…typical.

  45. avatarRandy Drescher says:

    Hopefully ctd uses square, talk about 2 with one stone,lol, Randy

  46. avatarMatt says:

    Hit them up on Twitter too to let them know your displeasure!

    https://twitter.com/SqSupport
    and
    https://twitter.com/Square

  47. avatarJmcaul says:

    This is a PERFECT opportunity for someone (or some group) with the knowhow to form a gun rights friendly credit card processing company. I wish I knew how to do it, I would in a heartbeat. Possibly it would need to be taken offshore..? Anyone out there willing and able to step up to the bar?

  48. I would suggest that everyone who can write to them and make known your displeasure at their new policy. I just did myself, though as a small business who uses credit cards only at conventions I must admit to being rather in a bind to find another service.

    • avatarJmcaul says:

      Chris, you can always decline to use your card at merchants who use Square. Pay cash or take your business elsewhere. I used the two twitter accounts listed above to notify Square of my decision as a consumer to avoid their merchants.

  49. avatarLloyd says:

    I deleted my account.

  50. avatarGS650G says:

    So how do they feel entitled to have a say in what is bought through their financial operations that is legal to do so?

  51. avatarWeeze says:

    I guess Square is making so much $$ and profit that they don’t need my lousy 2.75% so I guess I will give to some other company! C ya!

  52. Everybody who is leaving square, just be sure to let them know why.

  53. avatarRalph says:

    Buy up all the ammo, “persuade” processors to avoid firearms transactions, dissuade banks that you regulate from making loans to firearms companies — “under the radar” indeed.

  54. avatarGMgunsmith says:

    In the past several hours I’ve already moved 3 of my clients from Square to another processor. 3 down 62 to go.

  55. courtesy platpay.com

    We’ve heard about financial institutions that have let it be known that gun-related commerce isn’t something they want to be associated with. Platinum Payment Systems apparently isn’t one of them. They’ve let it be known that they’re pro-2A and open for bidness, gunwise. Their marketing-speak after the jump . . .

    With the recent news of the federal government’s involvement in the firearm and ammunition industry, we felt you should know that Platinum is still actively processing for merchants and outlets in your space, and have firearm related merchants on the books today.

    As avid sportsmen, hunters, and gun owners ourselves, we believe in the second amendment, and that it’s our God given right to own firearms for protection and sustenance. When we heard of the current issues plaguing the firearm community, we felt very strongly that we should do something to help. In fact, this is truly a marriage of two of our greatest passions – our core business and the right to bear arms.

    So needless to say, we are very excited to earn your trust, and the trust your friends and colleagues. We invite you to give us a chance to work with, train, educate and ultimately service the processing needs for those in your space. We can guarantee fair and honest dealings, excellent pricing, a sound knowledge of our collective industries, and the desire to reinstate processing options for those businesses in need. Please let us know how we can better serve you and those in your network. We are confident you’ve found the right solution.

    • You can reach us at http://www.platpay.com, or you can call 1-888-752-8644. We look forward to speaking with you!

      • avatarInBox485 says:

        The big thing needed to replace something like square is the smartphone swipe reader. For people that might sell a box of spare ammo at a range or something like that, the swipe reader is what makes the difference.

        • We have mobile solutions for use at gun shows. go to iTunes and look up Platinum Payment Systems. you will see our application which is free to download. All we need to do is set up your account, activate the peripheral (swiper) and send it to you.

        • avatarInBox485 says:

          A lot of the square users are here and there users. I got the pricing from Platinum Payment, and the set up and monthly fees are way too much for being able to sell a PPT gun or box of ammo here and there. Sounds like a decent merchant option, but not really for us little guys.

  56. avataranon2314 says:

    En masse firearm retailers should switch to another service.

    https://www.moblized.com/

  57. avatarJay Dee says:

    Of course, nothing prevents me from opening Dianne’s Flower Shop (Named in honor of Dianne Fineswine no less) and giving away stuff like AR-15s as a bonus for buying daisy stickers.

    We should actually thank Square for facilitating the unregulated sales of firearms and accessories.; i.e. if Square handled the sale, there would be a record for law enforcement to trace a transaction. With cash, not a chance. Way to go, Square!

  58. avatarbystander says:

    I haven’t read all the comments, so if this is a repeat, please excuse me…

    I don’t see what the big deal is. Yeah, they are jerks, but so what? Switch to a company like Platinum, or change your account name at square so they don’t know what you are selling and continue using it. Screw ‘em, right?

    At any rate, eventually some Congress members will introduce a bill that makes financial discrimination against gun related industries illegal. It is, after all, about civil rights. Obama probably won’t sign it, but it will become law at some point. They are just coming around to the fact that they have lost the culture war, especially when you can go on reddit and find anti-gun contributors getting shouted down.

    • avatarSammy says:

      Why generate income and convenience for those intolerant fvcks? Just switch processors. It shouldn’t be too difficult. I get 3-5 calls a week from card processors looking for business. Skrew Skuare.

  59. Similar to Square, Approving Firearm Retailers

    Our company, Moblized, offers similar pricing and features to Square and we do approve merchants that sell guns. The two requirements are:

    1. Retail only (no web or phone orders, the credit card must be swiped).

    2. You must have an ATF license.

    If that describes you, sign up here: https://www.moblized.com

  60. avatarCheyenne says:

    I’m my shop after discussing it with some friends we decided putting some .22 holes in them and mailing them back might be an appropriate response.

  61. avatarCheyenne says:

    I’m my shop we decided putting some .22 holes in them and mailing them back might be an appropriate response.

  62. I sell the cutest stun guns (some disguised as lipstick or cell phones), pepper sprays, and personal alarms. Guess Square doesn’t want my business, either.

  63. avatarCris says:

    pistolpay.com
    For those in the US wiuth a US bank account and/or credit card, not widly supported but mebe this is the time it gain momentum and it become international
    Check it out

    Ciao

    CV

  64. avatar9mm&4WD says:

    I almost always pay for online firearm purchases with a money order. Save that 3%!

  65. avatarDesert Dawg Arms says:

    That is why I use PAI. The bad thing is they just had to add a fee because of supposed fraud.

  66. avataraldematt57 says:

    I use Intuit’s Go Payment. I also have a Square account, but it will NEVER be used again. I’ve had no such problems with Intuit.

    • avatarLew Schiller says:

      It’s my understanding that Intuit has given firearm businesses 6 months to find another processor.

    • avatarGun Friendly says:

      Intuit is not gun friendly. They are dropping gun merchants as well. Call PAI. They are gun friendly. 866-371-2273 EXT 1236

  67. No great loss. I didn’t even know what Square was.

  68. avatarjanitor says:

    LOL i bought a sks from a buddy using one of these. the transaction cleared….i guess we are criminals now.

  69. avatarShari Thomason says:

    I just took a look at Pistol Pay. Broken English. I don’t trust it.

  70. avatarAmber says:

    PayAnywhere does accept Firearms Dealers who are able to provide their FFL. Please contact me at 866-506-8566 ext 1858. I’d be happy to assist you on your mobile credit card processing journey.

  71. avatarLew Schiller says:

    For a small vendor of firearm accessories – concealed carry holsters, purses and so forth – Square was a great service. I spent the day contacting other processors but none are right for me. Were I a high volume FFL it’d be a different story.
    Paypal doesn’t allow firearm transactions either but they at least don’t disallow what I sell nor do they disallow stun guns and so forth. I’m not a big PP fan but they might be the way I have to go.

    Paypal’s list:
    You may not use PayPal to sell any firearm. Certain firearm related items and high-capacity ammunition magazines are also prohibited.
    Here is a list of the prohibited items:
    Firearms – Include all rifles, shotguns, and handguns, whether they are intended for use in sporting, as collectibles, or as curio and relic firearms. These items are prohibited regardless of their present working order.

    Firearm parts – Include, but are not limited to, receivers and frames, silencers, kits designed to convert a firearm to automatic firing capability, high capacity magazines, multi-burst trigger activators, and camouflaging firearm containers.

    Ammunition – Includes ammunition with propellant, such as gunpowder or blank ammunition. Ammunition is defined as ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for any firearm.

    Stun guns – For U.S. residents, PayPal allows transactions for stun guns only if the transaction is permitted by law in both the buyer’s and seller’s jurisdictions. U.S. sellers must ensure that each transaction is legal in both locations before completing the sale. Transactions for stun guns involving account holders outside the U.S. are prohibited.

    OT Related Items – PayPal allows transactions for paintball guns, blank guns, and air-soft guns as permitted by law in the applicable jurisdiction. These items must display all markings required by law, must not be convertible to shoot a lethal projectile, and must not include blank ammunition

  72. Yes they are brand new they go National in the next two days but if you want call them go for it. Its going to tear up the credit card industry and the best part is there in Sarasota F.L.

  73. avatarDC says:

    Payment Alliance Intl in West Palm Beach FL is a “Very” Gun Friendly Processor
    http://www.paymentallianceintl.com/

  74. Payment Alliance has nothing on OurPhoneSwipe these guys are going to rock the gun industry.

  75. avatarPatrick says:

    We are a partner with Mercury Payment Systems and we would be happy to have your business. You can download our MercuryPay app in the Apple app store for your iPhone or iPad by searching Mercury Payment Systems. Contact us today for a quote on your processing…..2.75% was too much to pay anyway. 1-888-515-3085

    • Ourphoneswipe is partners with NationalGunForum, XDTalk, NRA and Defensive Carry.

      They have the best rates period and the best phone swipe period. The NRA and National Gun Forum would not deal with them at all if they did not stand up behind there product.

  76. avatarJoe says:

    Payment Alliance is the only firearm friendly merchant service provider ENDORSED by the NRA, NSSF, Gunbroker.com, FFL123, GunAuction.com and many more.

  77. avatarMike says:

    Rectangle Ware-Ever Pay is perfectly fine with gun sales on their service. They have a similar card reader and are much better for higher ticket sales anyhow. Square leaves a lot to be desired for legitimate businesses.

  78. avatarJill C says:

    Since we dumped Square, two days after this announcement, we have been looking for another vendor, and this has led us to looking for another website server as well, since we are currently suffering with Intuit, who is also not very 2A friendly.
    We have settled on another company, and are going to make the transition. They have several CC merchants to choose from, but none of the ones mentioned above. They will, however, work with us to find a company that is interested in our business.
    That said, the first business I contacted Authorize.Net, I asked them up front if they had any policies against working with 2A companies, and they did. However, the guy was nice, and referred me to someone else. Since he was nice, I didn’t let him know what a twit I thought their company was for resting safely in the American Constitution while only honoring the parts of it they liked, and instead I asked him why so many of these companies aren’t interested in 2A business. I got back a short answer, “it’s a liability issue.”
    So my question is, is this really a reality for these merchant account companies. Have any of them ever been sued for participating in a transaction? Or are they just blowing smoke/living in fear/etc.?

    • We have been happily working with Gun Dealers our 1.09 program has taken off like a rocket feel free to call me and I will be more then happy to let you talk to some of my Gun Dealers across the Nation that use us. 941-225-0808.

  79. McMillan Merchant services, owned by the McMillan Firearm company has a credit card processing service that donates back to the 2A supporting groups like NRA etc.

    MMSLLC.COM

    look them up and forget about paypal and b of a , and the square ones.

  80. avatarBamajr says:

    Let me put a few things to rest – not that I’m an authority on it or anything – but I do have over 17 years in the web development industry.

    I’m very outspoken about being pro-2nd Amendment, pro-Carry, pro-Conceal Carry, pro-OpenCarry… Let’s just say, I’m PRO-GUN. However, there is way more going on here, than what most people realize and the actual issues get over-shaddowed by the media spins and legislative action hype.

    So, let me help make some sense of all this, by posing a series of questions/scenarios…

    Q: If you have an FFL, can you sell to ANYONE, in the United States? A: No! You can sell to other valid FFL holders, people of legal age to purchase, people legally allowed to purchase/own and to people, allowed by your own states firearms sales laws (I.E. these are sometimes referred to as “firearms reciprocity” laws – some states don’t allow you to sell to someone who is not a legal resident of the state you operate in, or bordering states.)

    While it is your job, as the FFL holder, to verify that you meet all federal and state laws, banks can get caught in the “cross-fire” at times. This all comes down to the federal and state definition of facilitation and or trafficking. A bank (or payment service) which facilitates a transaction, is liable for that transaction. In general business, they pass that liability on to you as the business owner/operator, via accountability and chargebacks.

    A few years ago, it was illegal, for a Minnesota resident, to buy a gun in Iowa. It was also illegal for an Iowa gun dealer to sell to a Minnesota resident, that wasn’t an FFL holder. So, lets say a non-FFL Minnesota resident, paid money to an Iowa resident, to go buy a hand gun, at an Iowa Retailer. Lets say this same Iowa resident, purchased the hand-gun, from an Iowa Firearms Retailer and lied on his application, stating the gun was for him/her). Then the Iowa resident takes that gun, to the non-FFL Minnesota resident and turns it over to him/her.

    The Iowa resident is now guilty of federal crimes, including interstate firearms trafficking, falsifying federal documents, and facilitation of a crime. While the Iowa FFL retailer, may have done everything right, both the Iowa resident and the non-FFL Minnesota resident are acting illegally.

    Now, replace the “Iowa resident” terminology, with a bank name. While a bank, can’t sign the firearms documentation, it does facilitate the transfer of money, for the firearms purchase. So, depending on the state and the specifics of the sale, the bank, can be held liable for various trafficking and wire fraud laws, even without their formal knowledge of the transaction. Most times this is aired out during the course of the investigation, but, a bank’s time and resources can be consumed, during the investigation process.

    This is why banks shy away from guns. Its the same reason, some banks shy away from alcohol and tobacco transactions, though on a way smaller scale.

    eBay/PayPal don’t allow tobacco or alcohol to be sold on their systems either. However, they do allow accessories and paraphernalia to be sold. Anyone of us, can go to eBay and buy any number of gun parts/accessories, without a problem and eBay/PayPal doesn’t restrict the purchase. Neither do they prevent me from buying beer bottles, coozies, zippo lighters & etc.

    Its all about the banks willingness to accommodate, at their own cost, firearms investigations.

    Banks, which have a well-thought, automated, electronic transaction & reporting process, seem to have less of an issue, with firearms sales, due to the ease of producing necessary documentation, without heavy personnel involvement (I.E. Stripe). Banks with lesser systems, require heavy personnel involvement, to produce the same documentation (I.E. Wells Fargo).

    Now hold on, because the water gets even muddier…

    As a person responsible for integrating payment systems with websites, I know where to look, to get specific information, related to credit card processing. So, I dug a little deeper, into the McMillan Merchant Services option. You’ll never guess what I found.

    McMillan, a firearms manufacturer, touts their merchant services as “pro-2ndAmendment” – which is awesome… from a distance. However, McMillan Merchant Services uses Merchant Services LTD as their payment processor. Merchant Services LTD is a registered ISO/MSP of Wells Fargo (who is largely anti- 2nd Amendment) – meaning Wells Fargo is the bank, responsible for the financial management of the credit card transactions, the same as if you’d gone directly through Wells Fargo.

    This makes Strip sound even better, right? Well, unfortunately, Stripe doesn’t seem to post their ISO/MSP affiliation, so I can’t tell you for sure. However, it seems that they actually operate as the merchant. They have the Merchant ID, not you, the user, which is a legal grey area, especially when processing firearms transactions. This means, as far as the banks are concerned, it is their transaction. Stripe will not give you a Merchant ID, as is customary when you accept credit cards. If you research Stripe online, they also have more than their fair share of complaints, many with the same claim (such as http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/stripe-payments/internet/stripe-payments-stripe-credit-card-processing-stripe-kills-new-businesses-with-deceptive-a-1025676).

    As for the national “call to action” for boycotting specific banks…

    It will have little to no effect on the banks. This only makes those, who publicly declare that they will not handle firearms business, just look like poster children to the liberals. After all, you can bet, they already analyzed the numbers and the amount of money they may loose, is a flash in the pan compared to the government support they could loose, if they were publicly PRO-2ND AMENDMENT.

    My suggestion…

    STAY AWAY FROM ALL BIG BANKS. Choose a local Credit Union instead.

    The only way, the firearms industry, can keep from supporting anti-firearms banks, is if the industry creates their own bank and insurance company (banks have to be insured/bonded), which operates its own merchant system. Otherwise, most transactions, are being processed through and accounted for by, anti-firearms banks – period.

    Might I suggest the NRA start a Credit Union?

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