Quote of the Day: Where Peace Begins Edition

“If you can handle a gun with dignity and respect for its power, it says a lot to your kid. When you go deeper, however, disturbing questions come to the surface about guns in the home and their violent purposes. Are you killing an animal because you are hungry and plan to eat it, or for sport, simply to watch it die? If you own guns at home, are you willing to tell your children that guns at home are likely to be used in suicides? (You probably won’t; I doubt I would have the courage to say that.) When you feel rage, what do your kids see? When you say you need a gun for protection, what do your kids learn from that? When you say no to gun toys and violent play, do your kids understand why?” – Lee Schneider in What Fathers Can Tell Their Children About Guns [via huffingtonpost.com]

comments

  1. avatar Elephant Rider says:

    In my experience a father starts by telling about gun safety, then demonstrating. Rinse and repeat.

    This guy can start by STFU and writing about something he has a clue about.

  2. avatar JSIII says:

    I dont say no to toy guns or “violent” play…..liberal douche.

    1. avatar Joke & Dagger says:

      We call these guys “panty wastes” in my neck of the woods.

      1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

        Right term, incorrect spelling. What you’re seeking is “pantywaist.”

        http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pantywaist

        I am highly in favor of bringing back into common usage the many, many English words we used to hear in common usage to define the sort of man we now find emanating from Ivy League schools and taking up residence in boardrooms and political offices. “Pantywaist” is one applicable word.

        1. avatar CarlosT says:

          Well, he’d be a waste of panties as well.

        2. avatar William says:

          I love “blackguard”; it’s a fave of mine.

  3. avatar Dirk Diggler says:

    are the antis- only locating and quoting from the wimpiest “men” around??

    1. avatar Pwrserge says:

      Oh I don’t know. Feinstein has a pair on her.

    2. avatar neiowa says:

      That’s all they have.

      “When you say you need a gun for protection, what do your kids learn from that? When you say no to gun toys and violent play, do your kids understand why?” – Lee Schneider “

      Says that in America you are responsible for yourself, not the government. and that Lee Schneider needs to buy a pair

    3. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      I could write a thesis about this topic, but the answer is ‘yes.’ The uptick in the number of these beta (and worse) males on the public stage is because they’re what is favored by the feminist harridans: meek, quiet, dissembling men who curry modern female favor by playing to the stated desires of feminists.

      1. avatar LC Judas says:

        The fact is that the biology behind people trying to teach aggression out of a culture is part of why its melting down. Pretending you are higher than someone who understands the use of force as a part of society creates this rift and guns are merely the symbol of this because people want to pretend violence and standing up for what you believe in is outmoded unless you send it in a memo for approval and politely request your opinion be considered.

  4. avatar rcacajun says:

    -Ducks, Dove, and Deer are very tasty, and hard to find at the store.
    -Guns in a happy home aren’t likely used in suicides.
    -It is pretty easy not to argue with fits of rage in front of others. My parents hid it really well. (Although rage is an exaggeration of their arguments)
    -Protection with firearms is necessary in some areas, don’t teach your kids that the world is 100% safe. Also teach them to be defensive drivers.
    -Nope, my kids can play with toy guns, I don’t see it being a problem at all. (What is your definitions of “violent play”, Football?)

    Most important, LOVE your wife and kids, and don’t take a back seat to parenting.

    1. avatar Ian says:

      This sums it up perfectly. Well said.

      1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

        ^^^Yup
        Let’s not forget elk, bear, chukar, pheasant and all their other tasty friends!
        Also, I do shoot animals for sport. I don’t eat coyote. I did try badger once.
        Africa in 28 days… Impala, bush pig, eland…
        Sorry, I’m drooling here.
        “Never argue with your wife, just dicker….”

        1. avatar TX says:

          +1 on the Chukar reference. That’s the best damn food with wings known to man. Too bad they’re all pen-raised down here in Texas. I’d love to go hunt them in the wild (Idaho, maybe??)

          Oh, and Mr. Schneider needs to quit thinking so deeply about all this stuff and go hit the range for some fun. With some kids.

  5. avatar Buzzlefutt says:

    These questions aren’t difficult questions.

    1. avatar John L. says:

      Maybe not for you.

      Same pattern yet again: since *I* am afraid of what I might do / can’t control myself in front of my kids / have personal issues with how I was raised / etc., clearly *everybody else* does too and therefore *nobody* should have guns.

      As I was reading the piece, I was thinking more about what the questions were saying about him than anything else.

      Sigh. Some people shouldn’t be allowed to buy power tools, either.

      1. avatar Matt in NC says:

        Couldn’t agree more John. I was thinking the same thing, how this guy is describing himself and his own flaws.

    2. avatar John L. says:

      Maybe not for you.

      Same pattern yet again: since I am afraid of what I might do / can’t control myself in front of my kids / have personal issues with how I was raised / etc., clearly everybody else does too and therefore nobody should have guns.

      As I was reading the piece, I was thinking more about what the questions were saying about him than anything else.

      Sigh. Some people shouldn’t be allowed to buy power tools, either.

  6. avatar Kittenfists says:

    And the push for the overall pussification of America continues. None of those are tough conversations. My Dad talked at length to me about his guns when I was a kid, I always understood what they were for and what they could do. I guess being a man and a helluva father about how you handle talking to your kids is just out of the question here?

    1. avatar Human Being says:

      Well said; and love the name.

      1. avatar Kittenfists says:

        Thank you Sir. I wanted something that didn’t come off as too intimidating to people like MikeyB#s.

        1. avatar William says:

          Miley Numbers IS a sensitive type, for a slave trader.

    2. avatar Sixpack70 says:

      Sounds like my experience also.

  7. avatar Sixpack70 says:

    This gun must be sniffing unicorn farts. Another blame the tool, tool.

  8. avatar jason21m says:

    To start with, I wouldn’t spout false information about suicide to my kids (if I had them). A lot of other bad things are far more likely to happen to someone than suicide with a gun.

  9. avatar Bill Robertson says:

    As usual, the progressive drive-by comments illustrate no depth. It does however elicit initial negative thoughts concerning guns and THAT is what the ‘article’s’ main intent is.

  10. avatar Martin says:

    All of these Hoplophobic people that get so worked up about guns that they wet themselves make me sick. They think since they are not Responsible enough to own them and teach gun safety then there is no way somebody they see as Inferior to them could do the same thing.

  11. avatar Frank Williams says:

    If you own guns at home, are you willing to tell your children that guns at home are likely to be used in suicides?

    If that’s true, wouldn’t the number of gun owners be decreasing instead of increasing? (And if you’re telling your kids this, you’d better warn them about sleeping pills, rope, plastic bags, and automobiles, too.)

    1. avatar Chaz says:

      guns at home are likely to be used in suicides

      Sounds like sophistry to me. This research paper is informative:
      Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder And Suicide?

      1. avatar k4R-15 says:

        Thx Chaz- I will make use of that research paper

    2. avatar C says:

      “Likely” to me, implies a >50% probability. There are three people in my household and….more than that many guns. How then are we all still alive?

    3. avatar William says:

      And cigarettes and pizza every night.

  12. avatar JAS says:

    Does this guy have any daughters?

    My daughters were taught very early on that the world is not a safe place. They were enrolled in Karate classes at age 10, one of them is a brown belt. All throughout they were taught situational awareness. At age 18 they learned how to safely handle and shoot a handgun. They also got cars at 18 with key chains that have ASP OC dispensers, and were taught how to use them using the included inert cartridges. Every time they drove at night we told them what to look for and avoid. Now they know what to do to avoid bad situations, and how to defend themselves.

    We’ve done all we can do to better their chances when on their own.

  13. avatar chuck says:

     “Have you ever tried simply turning off the TV, sitting down with your children, and hitting them?” – Bender.

  14. avatar Hal J. says:

    If you own guns at home, are you willing to tell your children that guns at home are likely to be used in suicides?

    If a gun at home was likely (which means greater than a 50% chance) to be used in suicide, then by definition there would millions of suicides in the US. Instead, we have a rate only half that of the gun-free paradise of Japan.

    This guy’s a moron.

  15. avatar SD3 says:

    “…are you willing to tell your children that guns at home are likely to be used in suicides?”

    OK, maybe at your house. In which case, “no”, *you* probably should not have ready-access to a firearm. But the compulsion to transfer the risks of your mental instability to others is obnoxious, stupid, & unjustified.

  16. avatar mediocrates says:

    I’m glad to know that since I brought guns into my home, It’s likely I’m going to commit suicide.

  17. avatar Liberty2Alpha says:

    Translation:

    “I seem to have lost my balls. Has anyone seen them?”

    1. avatar Accur81 says:

      A hamster probably ran off with them.

  18. avatar Hal J. says:

    The comments at the original article almost exclusively disagree with the author. Granted, they’re not as well…snarky as the ones here, but it’s interesting, given the leftist source (Huffington Post).

    1. avatar Old Ben turning in grave says:

      I’m thinking the snarky ones (at least from the right) are less likely to get approved for posting.

  19. avatar Don says:

    There is a big difference between the fraction of suicides using guns and the fraction of guns used in suicides.

    1. avatar Pulatso says:

      Well put!

  20. avatar Lucubration says:

    I suddenly understand another aspect of this cultural difference. It’s like Lt. Col. Dave Cooper suggests: it’s all about training.

    If you have a means of terrible violence around you every day and choose not to use it (unless necessary), you learn respect and restraint, discipline and good judgement.

    If you instead deny and villainize that means of terrible violence, and one day when you’re unhinged you get access to it, you aren’t conditioned to or practiced at exercising restraint or discipline or good judgement regarding its use, whether through conscious or unconscious choice. You are only practiced at denying yourself access and reviling it as other, and now the very thing you deny and revile is right in front of you, ready to be taken and incorporated.

    Ergo, hoplophobes who (rightly) fear what they would do because they have no practice at not doing.

    1. avatar Ing says:

      Yep. Good stuff.

      I’d add that this also comes about because they’ve bought the false idea that violence is inherently evil, when in reality it’s merely a feature of life. Hatred and violence are not intrinsic evils to be stamped out at all costs, they’re natural and necessary. There are some things we should hate. Sometimes violence is necessary; we crave it and constantly experience it vicariously (almost every sport worth watching basically amounts to ritualized conflict and controlled violence). We all have natural tendencies to anger, hatred, and violence — and we also have the ability to manage and restrain those raw emotions.

      Hoplophobes have spent so much mental energy trying to stamp out an ineradicable aspect of their own nature that it turns into a black pit inside them; they’ve never really tried to shine a light into that dark place, and they live in fear that they’ll be consumed by it. Because, ironically, they already are.

  21. avatar Randy Drescher says:

    Yeah man,peace & love….the colors. I see we are back to the gun just as likely to hurt a family member as a robber,lol. Here’s hoping the first robber parts his scalp with a nice head canoe, Randy

  22. avatar Wiregrass says:

    “Are you killing an animal because you are hungry and plan to eat it, or for sport, simply to watch it die?”

    I think it is possible to kill an animal for sport and plan to eat it.

    My kids have also seen me in a fit of rage. It happens. But they have also seen me not draw a gun and shoot everybody in the room because of it.

  23. avatar Aharon says:

    The men’s rights movement calls such eunuchs as Lee “manginas”.

    from the about section on his website:
    “has built his entire career on storytelling, working as a producer, writer, director and manager for NBC, ABC, A&E, Disney, Hearst, History Channel, Meredith Corp and other major media groups”

    Yup, only a mangina could continue being employed by those companies.

  24. avatar Count Spatula says:

    I’m no more likely to talk to my daughter about using a gun for suicide than I am about OD’ing on her migraine medication or slitting her wrists with her razor or the ten inch chef’s knife she uses to chop onions. I would talk to her about suicide specifically – not necessarily the tool – if I felt circumstances warranted a discussion.

    A gun for protection? My kid learns that the world is not all sunshine and rainbows. There are bad people out there; hell there’s bad air out there. She learns that you can’t avoid life, you can only do what is in your means to be prepared for it. I try to protect her from the evils of the world, but by no means do I shield her from awareness of their existence.

    When I’m angry she sees my ears get red, my voice get louder and higher pitched and I pace. She never sees violence as a result of something pissing me off. She sees emotion, because ya know, people have those things.

    I don’t say no to toy guns and violent play. Why would I? Would I rather it be pent up and become real violence because I refuse to allow her freedom in her imagination?

  25. avatar RKflorida says:

    This liberal douche thinks that all men are as mentally unstable as he is. He talks of rage and suicide as though they were common and unavoidable. He is not worth reading.

    1. avatar gloomhound says:

      +1

  26. avatar Fred says:

    Death is a part of life, children must learn to accept death and be respectful of life and our natural resources.
    Are you going to tell your children to buckle up because they are likely to get into a near-fatal car accident that day? Suicide is not a random side-effect of gun ownership.
    Are you an good example for your children? Chances are if you regularly carry you are less prone to violence and “random rage”.
    When you take responsibility for your life and the lives or your family and deny dependence on state and federal services what does that say to your children?
    When you choose to educate your children and instill the right morals instead of harshly restricting their every move and thought you set them free and help create self-sufficient and responsible adults.

    The jist of this is typical liberal parenting, a clear allegory of gun-control, and shows the gun-control thought-pattern. We are all the “children” in this situation, they prefer to legislate and control our every move over instilling a moral and educated society. Their delusions make them think controlling us is the answer while ignoring the actual issues.

  27. avatar Aharon says:

    “are you willing to tell your children that guns at home are likely to be used in suicides?”
    — If discussing suicide, it would be more realistic to say that even without access to guns, the Japanese still have a far higher rate of suicide than Americans.

    Enough of this nonsense. Just look at this guy’s face. It’s soft and weak, and just like other progressive mangina’s that have been pictured on this site previously they all look unlike men. I think he needs to be tested for having too much estrogen in his system.

  28. avatar Ralph says:

    Another pencil-necked panty sniffer has been heard from. Geez, where do they find these imitation men?

  29. avatar John E> says:

    What example does he give his child when he drives after three scotches, or lights up a blunt with his friends on the weekend and she finds his stash? Good God we could go on, and on, and on.

    BTW just picked up a Ruger 10/22; as soon as I can find some ammo I’m gonna take my 9 year old out…

  30. avatar DrVino says:

    Poor Lee has been too busy thinking of these things to take his kid to the park…. …where he can see any random kid push another out of the way on the monkey gym, the slide or sand box or walk up to another kid, thwack him upside the head and take his toy.

    These behaviors are hard wired – more so in others – and trying to tell people to go against their urges is as helpful as restorative therapy is for gay men.

  31. avatar Ensitue says:

    Holder : “We Must Brainwash People On Guns”~1995

  32. avatar Ing says:

    A few weeks ago I was making a list of things my son and daughter needed to know in order to be self-sufficient when they leave the nest. My wife has been doing the “indoor” part of the list, and I’ve been doing the “outdoor” list.

    My list of things they’re going to do and practice over the summer included things like pounding nails, sawing wood with hand and power saws, planting a garden, running the lawnmower, using various hand tools, shooting bad guys, resetting circuit breakers, fixing a bicycle, jump-starting a car, etc. (They each know some of these things, but they don’t both know know all of them.)

    One night at dinner I read them the list, and they listened and nodded silently to every item except one, at which they both burst out at the same time: “We already know how to do that!” My reply: “Then you’d better stay in practice.”

    You probably know which item that was. 🙂

    I was only half-serious when I put that one in the list, but the point is that we’ve already talked about how these particular tools work, what their benefits and dangers are, and what people (rightly or wrongly) use them for. And we’ve practiced using them accurately and safely in age-appropriate contexts.

    Lee Schneider is way out in the weeds with most of his opinions, but he’s right about one thing: If you can handle a gun with dignity and respect for its power, it says a lot to your kid. What says even more to your kid is you teaching them how do it, too.

  33. avatar Haiku Guy says:

    I hate the way people are careless about speech, and use their mistakes to justify their prescriptions on policy.

    A gun in the home is not likely to be used in a suicide because suicide is still somewhat rare. The vast majority of guns are never used in a suicide.

    There are those who say that a gun is more likely to be used for suicide than to be used to protect the home, but they come to that conclusion only because they compare the number of suicides to the number of dead bad guys. I would say, rather, that the gun protects the home each and every day, providing security and peace of mind to the inhabitants. Very rarely it must be fired, and if all houses had guns, it would be even more rarely. The value of the gun is that it deters the bad guy.

    My fondest hope is that I never have to use a gun on another person because the situation never arises. But if that situation does come to pass, I would much rather be prepared. Better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it.

  34. avatar KCK says:

    115,000,000 households in america
    50,000,000 with guns 40%
    16,000 suicides by guns
    Since when has 3 one hundrenths of one percent chance become “likely”

    Check my facts

  35. avatar JW says:

    Cherry picked “study” in it’s worst form. The author did not look for any data that would challenge his hypothesis, such as the elevated suicide rates in countries where guns are almost completely unavailable. Why do we tolerate pseudo-science especially when it masquerades as virtue?

  36. avatar Bill says:

    “Likely to be used in a suicide” WTF is wrong with you?

  37. avatar Totenglocke says:

    Ah yes, the never ending “guns cause suicide” bullshit.

  38. avatar Southern Cross says:

    My son has known about my guns since the age of 2 and has regularly accompanied me to a service rifle range since the age of 3 and a half. The worst thing he has done was to go swimming in a large puddle while fully clothed. Luckily I had spare clothes in the car. He’s now nearly 5.

    He is very well behaved and the officials tell me there is no issue with my son at the range. Thanks to Mythbusters, he knows what guns can do. He watched me compete in a match for the top 10 competitors last year. He was very proud when daddie won several stages and came 3rd overall.

    I would prefer him to know about the guns and let him hold them under my supervision. That takes the mystery out of them. He helps me clean the rifle after the match and wants to know when can he start to shoot (unfortunately not for another 8 years). He enjoys the day out and keeps asking me when are we going next. Unfortunately, I’ve been out of work since mid-February and I can’t afford the cost of the fuel, much less the fees.

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