It Should Have Been a DGU: Off-Campus Gang Rape Edition

As and when my daughters are old enough and responsible enough to carry a firearm, I’d like them to do so. Whether or not they carry, they will [continue to] learn the importance of situational awareness, which includes knowing the likely location and nature of violent threats. Speaking of which, I would be livid if their alma mater failed to provide my progeny with the salient details of a violent assault against a fellow student until four days afterwards. According to nbcnews.com, the gang rape at La Salle University in Philadelphia occurred a mile off campus; administrators figure that once a student steps out of the school’s gun-free zone they’re fair game. Come to think of it, I’m not paying for a school that doesn’t allow campus carry. Got that girls? My condolences to the victim. [h/t Brandon]

comments

  1. avatar cmdrlimpet says:

    Utah Public Colleges, the best choice for the armed student.

    1. avatar Greg says:

      Most Utah schools. They are having problems with Utah Valley University trying to be a bastion of liberal stupidity.

  2. avatar ST says:

    The crummy thing about gun free zones are that not only are gun owners disarmed IN the zone, they’re disarmed going to and from it also. A fact criminals are well aware of.

    I wouldn’t expect the university to willingly make things right after this tragedy. An Iowa college student w/a CCW permit who obediently left her gun at home was raped within sight of the police station, and only after threatening a lawsuit was she granted “permission” by the University President to carry her G19.

    1. avatar Jason says:

      Unless, of course, you are one of the wealthy few who can drive to campus, and therefore keep a weapon in the car. Just another reason gun control favors the wealthy.

      1. avatar ST says:

        The legality of keeping a gun in the car depends on state law.

        For example, California state law forbids the presence of firearms on university property no matter where its located. If the college owns the parking lot, you’re boned.

        1. avatar Pyratemime says:

          In Texas you can keep the weapon in your car as an extension of castle doctrine. I have a number of student even living in the dorms where they cannot have a firearm who have one (properly locked and concealed) in the vehicle that is in the campus parking lot. They do this so they can CCW when off campus.

    2. avatar CarlosT says:

      Every place I’ve worked has been a gun free zone (as too many businesses are), but the one that was really sensible about it was the jail. The employee area had a big wall mounted cabinet with a bunch of compartments. You could get a key for one of them and when you came in, you locked your gun up and retrieved it when you went home.

      If schools want to be gun free zones, they should provide similar lockers. There’s no reason students should have to be disarmed off campus just because guns make administrators feel icky.

      1. avatar Matt in FL says:

        Nice idea, but too much temptation for theft, and too much liability.

        1. avatar DJC1012 says:

          Maybe the lockers could be housed in the campus police office(s)?
          Inconvenient if you are leaving the campus in the opposite direction but, better than nothing?

  3. avatar Jason says:

    I work at a major university. There are muggings on a weekly basis according to spot crime within a mile or two of campus (of students walking home).

    There have been exactly two security alerts in the last two years about such muggings. Campus security alerts are a joke.

    1. avatar Pascal says:

      I believe campus liability is within their grounds. outside of their gates Universities don’t give a crap and say it is a local PD issue. Local PD often don’t give a crap around the university perimeter believing that it will be reported by campus PD and thus you are left with an unprotected zones.

      Rape on campus is still a huge problem and administration does not like to take about it because it could ruin their images printed on the catalog.

      no one wants to take responsibility but at the same time, they want to keep everyone from being able to protect themselves

      1. avatar miserylovescompany says:

        Therein lies the rub. I can’t blame the school for what goes on OFF the campus. But the problem is that they somehow fear students growing a brain and actually taking steps to protect themselves more than they do an imminent threat to those same students. Typical anti-gun denial and rationalization.

        Tom

    2. avatar Pyratemime says:

      The Clery Act actually requires that universities to provide “timely” warnings to the campus community of crimes both on and near campus.

      1. avatar Jason says:

        On paper, yes, but not in practice.

  4. avatar Matt in FL says:

    The problem is your daughters go away to school at 17 or 18, but even if campus carry is legal they can’t do that until 21. What do you suggest for the intervening years?

    1. avatar CarlosT says:

      Like he said, there’s situational awareness, and beyond that, it depends on the particular place. There’s often pepper spray, batons, tasers, and sometimes knives.

      But yeah, it really sucks.

    2. avatar Russ Bixby says:

      ‘Tis better to ask forgiveness…

      1. avatar Matt in FL says:

        I’m not an 18 yo girl, I’m a 36 yo guy, and I won’t say that’s my policy, but I won’t say that’s not my policy, either. Either in general, or on this particular subject.

    3. avatar Pyratemime says:

      Have them join the Texas National Guard and come to a Texas university. In TX if you are in the military you can get your CHL at 18. A nice CCW pistol would make a wonderful HS graduation present.

      1. avatar C. Walther says:

        Bonus: it’s free (well, the paperwork part is. I think you still have to pay for the class).

    4. avatar DS says:

      Call boxes.

      1. avatar Matt in FL says:

        The brevity of your comment is outstanding, but its clarity leaves something to be desired. 😀

    5. avatar PeterZ in West Tennessee says:

      A long, sharply pointed ballpoint pen to the neck goes a long way to discouraging rape.

  5. avatar tdiinva says:

    I have it on good authority of Harvard Dr. David Hemenway that carrying a gun makes you a wuss. You should be using your superior intelligence to overcome the force of your attacker. Or alternatively just lie back an enjoy it.

    1. Straight outta the Democrat Guide To Women.

      +1000

      1. avatar Russ Bixby says:

        And raise the rapist’s offspring – straight from the Republican handbook.

        Neither side is right on this. Either before or after, one of ’em’ll be ewscrayed on this subject.

        How about a real, working Constitution Party…?

        1. avatar tdiinva says:

          Just send her to Dr. Gosnell’s clinic. He will fix the problem.

        2. avatar Russ Bixby says:

          ‘Tis better to avoid such problems, but since rapists tend to use condoms it’s better to simply kill the rapist.

          Saves another gal as well.

  6. avatar Randy Drescher says:

    We had a gun rights lady here in Wis that didn’t have a cc permit, she said her gun was open carry in her car, the cop said otherise. She put her freedom on the line & refused to accept some lesser charge. She won in court, the state lost the case, her attorney fees & precedence. My point is if you have a legitimte reason to carry it is very likely a properly picked jury will let you off. Yes, do you feel lucky? She did, Randy

    1. avatar Russ Bixby says:

      You know, whatever a cockle is, the ones in my heart just got a li’l bit warmer.

    2. avatar Russ Bixby says:

      This post makes me feel better.

    3. avatar Brock says:

      I don’t know about you guys, but I’m curious what Russ Bixby thinks about Randy’s post.

      1. avatar Russ Bixby says:

        The first response was blocked; must’ve been the word starting with c and ending in ockles. I posted a robot-proof message instead, but ‘twould appear that my original then posted.

  7. Animals that think they are men. If caught, I highly recommend castration, and to have an “R” tattooed upon their foreheads, backs of their hands, and each side of their necks, in bright red.

    Then, release them to society. NO jail time. Oh, and to be sure and alert the victim and her family members when the rapists will be released. Maybe they will like to greet the rapists as they exit the safety of jail. Just sayin’.

    1. avatar Wolf says:

      +9,000

    2. avatar Russ Bixby says:

      One quibble: animals don’t rape. These things are lower than the beasts.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        Gotta correct you there, Russ. Animals rape all the time. Yes they do. They often copulate with females who are non-receptive or not in season, and they do so by force. Males of many species will sexually assault lesser males in order to establish dominance. It’s a jungle out there.

        1. avatar Russ Bixby says:

          Hmmm… alright.

  8. avatar annoying says:

    What I find really problematic about campus gun-free zones is when this prohibition extends to university-owned housing (campus housing/dorms). It’s effectively a prohibition on gun-ownership for a student, since they can’t do anything at their home, let alone on their way to class and back.

  9. avatar RKflorida says:

    A friend came by to visit and during the conversation he mentioned that he had finally received his CC permit. I asked him when he was going to actually start carrying and he said he was. He then pulled out a little LCP from a little soft pocket holster. What stuck in my mind was the TOTAL concealment even when wearing a tucked in dress shirt with dress slacks. That got me to thinking about the odds that you would be busted for carrying that little gun. Honest! I couldn’t see the damn thing or even any indication of a holster and I was looking. That was dress slacks, imagine how hidden it would be in cargo type pants.

    Just saying.

    1. avatar The Original Brad says:

      My Baretta 21A (in .22lr) is invisible with my IWB clip on holster. I am not going to win any prolonged unfights, yes, but any gun is better than no gun. They may still kill me with it, but they’ll have to beat me over the head because it’ll be empty.

      1. avatar OHgunner says:

        I carried a Sig SP2022 IWB all day today. Under a T-Shirt. Not so much as an awkward look. Pretty sure that as long as you don’t give anyone a reason to pat you down you can conceal most guns rather effectively. Learn how to move while carrying (avoid bending at the waist, bend at the knees as much as possible) and spend some time in front of a mirror. And keep the fact you’re licensed to carry to yourself. It would really suck to conceal appropriately only to have your buddy blow your cover.

  10. avatar Chance says:

    I’m a PhD student at the University of Texas at Arlington. On October 24, 2012 there was a shooting at an on-campus apartment complex in which student living facilities were struck by bullets. While no one was injured, the campus police didn’t see fit to notify students of what happened until almost three hours after the shooting had occurred.

    http://www.theshorthorn.com/news/campus/gun-shots-reported-at-centennial-court/article_4cb61fee-1e51-11e2-83e3-0019bb30f31a.html

    I live in an off-campus apartment directly adjacent to the apartments where the shooting took place. That night, my girlfriend and I were at a talk given by Dr. Steven Weinberg (the Nobel Laureate physicist who gave the Higgs boson its name) that was held about two blocks from where the shooting happened. There were at least 200 people in attendance and only un-armed security in the building.

    http://www.uta.edu/physics/lcws12/pages/publicevent.html

    The first indication I had that anything was wrong was when my girlfriend and I were walking back to my apartment and saw that police had blocked off the street. We received an e-mail alert hours later saying that there had been a shooting, and that was it.

    I e-mailed the University president and howled about the student body not being informed of an on-campus shooting when classes were in session and a talk was taking place down the street. He responded and said campus police (somehow) knew there was no danger, so they didn’t feel the need to notify anyone immediately, despite the fact the shooter was not (and, as far as I’m aware, has not been) caught and no one knew where he / she ran off to.

    I’ve also written (repeatedly) to my State Senator and State Representative for this area stating my position on campus “gun-free” zones, and neither have bothered responding. It’s good to know they’re both ready to have that “gun control conversation.”

  11. avatar g says:

    Hate to say it RF, but I’m afraid for my daughter too someday… colleges these days have still been very slooooow to protect their students, especially female students, from crimes like rape. The statistic of 1 out of 5 (20%) of women will be sexually assault at college is unacceptable. From an NPR series:

    http://www.npr.org/series/124073905/seeking-justice-for-campus-rapes

    Serial offenders as well, probably knowing their victims are unarmed and they’ll never be punished, tend to act with impunity.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124111931

    “Documents from Indiana University and a later federal investigation of Margaux’s case show that the accused man had left a trail of trouble. Another woman said he’d tried to rape her in her bed, but she fought him off. She did not report those incidents to campus police. But she did send an e-mail to Margaux, who passed along the information to campus officials. When they asked the woman to come to the hearing, she declined. Still, the man, a freshman, like Margaux, was known to campus police. He’d been arrested and charged with a felony for beating up a male student.”

    and

    “NPR’s investigation found that most men found responsible for campus sexual assault get only mild punishment. Reporters at the Center for Public Integrity obtained a database of about 130 colleges and universities that got federal grants because they wanted to do a better job dealing with sexual assault. Even when men at those schools were found responsible for sexual assault, only 10 to 25 percent were expelled.”

    Terrible.

  12. avatar GS650G says:

    Four days later, the school sent out a Safety Reminder to students, notifying them of the attack and offering the following tips:

    Refrain from walking alone, particularly at night, in off-campus areas.

    Travel in well-lit areas. Avoid shortcuts through driveways.

    Report suspicious persons to Security and Safety or Philadelphia Police.

    Be constantly aware of your surroundings at all times.

    Use university shuttle and escort services.

    Practice drawing with a compact 9mm loaded with hollowpoints and showing no mercy.

    I added the last one, we all know that’s not on the list

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