harryreid

Yesterday every single gun control amendment failed in the Senate, which prompted a Presidential hissy fit. Today, the Senate is slated to continue debating the remaining amendments and the actual gun control bill itself. Right now, Harry Reid is doing his level best to guilt trip the Senate into enacting useless and painful new laws, using that same 90% statistic that people keep throwing around and saying that the fight isn’t over. We’ll keep you in the loop via this post as to what’s going on in the Senate [watch live here], so keep refreshing the page for the latest news.

[12:44] Senate in recess for lunch until 2:00 PM, at which time they will discuss judicial nominees. Sounds like gun control debate is done for the day.

[12:44] Harkin amendment PASSES – 95/2

[12:43] Senators Lee and Paul voted against this amendment, probably because it spends more money.

[12:34] When there’s no opposition speaker for a proposal, the conclusion is pretty clear.

[12:26] Harkin amendment up for two minutes of debate on either side. Would improve mental health in schools and universities, supported by Dems and Republicans alike.

[12:26] Barrasso Amendment PASSES – 67/30

[12:03] Voting has begun, and the clerk calling the roll seems to have left her cell phone on since I can hear it vibrating through the podium . . .

[12:02] Leahy (D-VT) can’t string two coherent sentences together to describe why he’s against protecting people’s privacy, but he sure looks peeved.

[12:00] Barrasso’s amendment is now up for 2 minutes of debate from each side. The amendment would protect gun owner information and stop New York style outing of gun owners.

[11:57] Nothing says C-SPAN like some classical music while the watching the Senate sit around doing nothing.

[11:47] Blumenthal (D-CT): “We must act before the next election.” Sounds like he may have recognized how screwed they are once the people get to vote them out.

[11:44]  Senator Blumenthal (D-CT): “Yesterday was demoralizing and discouraging. […] The only way to keep a bicycle moving is to move forward.” So if we stop them form passing any legislation, will they fall over and stop?

[11:39] Senator Blumenthal (D-CT) has now brought a picture of one of the Newtown victims and is attempting to guilt trip the Senate into passing gun control. Says Senate “turned its back” on the families of Newtown and other shootings. Literally using the victims of Newtown as a prop.

pic

[10:57] And now we’re talking about national  diaphragmatic hernia month, I guess…

[10:53] I love my senator. John Cornyn (R-TX) is systematically tearing apart the gun control advocate’s position and showing how reasonable the Republican-backed proposal the Democrats voted down yesterday was.

[10:40] John Cornyn: “I watched the president say it was a shameful day on television, and I agree for different reasons. When reasonable people have a reasonable discussion, the president should not accuse them of having no coherent argument and caving to the gun lobby […] I am accountable to them [Texans] and no one else. […] Its false to say it came down as politics, as he said.”

[9:50] Apparently the vote is scheduled for noon today, when they will be voting on two amendments. I’m not sure if the bill itself will be brought up today or if Reid will back off and try to get more support through back room deals. But if these amendments fail as well, there would appear to be no hope for the bill proper.

112 Responses to Latest Updates on Senate Gun Control Debate Here (4/18)

  1. I have been forever awakened to the fact that a faction of people exists who would like to attempt to deprive me of all of my natural rights, including but not limited to my right to defend myself from aggression. All of the rest of you should never forget the last four months. Now, we need to be forever vigilant and proactive in protecting and fighting for the right to be human, which includes but is not limited to a right to self defense using firearms.

    • #commentwin

      Brilliantly said.

      Vigilance is not guard duty, because in guard duty there is a scheduled relief. Three General Orders, anyone?

      Vigilance demands constant awareness. Let this sleeping giant not rest again until he has earned it.

      • I remember them this way?

        Take charge of this post and all government property in view
        To quit my post only when properly relieved
        To pass on to the sentry who relieves me all orders from the commanding officer, command duty officer and the officer of the day…

        Sound about right?

        • From The US Army. I don’t know if any other Armed Force uses these. I was/still am (I’ll always be a Grunt, even now) an 11 Series Grunt.

          1st General Order
          “I will guard everything within the limits of my post and quit my post only when properly relieved.”

          2nd General Order
          “I will obey my special orders and perform all of my duties in a military manner.”

          3rd General Order
          “I will report violations of my special orders, emergencies, and anything not covered in my instructions, to the commander of the relief.”

          Good memories, good memories…

        • From the US Navy:

          1. To take charge of this post and all government property in view.

          2. To walk my post in a military manner, keeping always on the alert, and observing everything that takes place within sight or hearing.

          3. To report all violations of orders I am instructed to enforce.

          4. To repeat all calls from posts more distant from the guard house than my own.

          5. To quit my post only when properly relieved.

          6. To receive, obey and pass on to the sentry who relieves me, all orders from the Commanding Officer, Command Duty Officer, Officer of the Deck, and Officers and Petty Officers of the Watch only.

          7. To talk to no one except in the line of duty.

          8. To give the alarm in case of fire or disorder.

          9. To call the Officer of the Deck in any case not covered by instructions.

          10. To salute all officers and all colors and standards not cased.

          11. To be especially watchful at night, and, during the time for challenging, to challenge all persons on or near my post and to allow no one to pass without proper authority.

        • Wr2a – I don’t think there is an ‘of’ after the ‘perform all’. I distinctly remember one of my drill sergeants had a pet peeve about that ‘of’.

    • I was too young in 1994. What the Democrats just did this election cycle is to transform me into a single-issue voter for the rest of my adult life. I also got my lifetime NRA membership today. Stay frosty my friends!

      • The unfairness, injustice and illogical efforts by the gun grabbers has had the exact same effect on me and caused the exact same reaction, plus some serious donations where I had never before been motivated to do so.

      • Same here. Before this I was skeptical of the NRAs claims that Obama and company wanted to ban guns. This was a wakeup call needless to say. Single issue voter for the rest of my life, I am now involved in gun rights at state and national level, new life member of the NRA. I will never forget this.

    • We need some kind of oath for NRA/GOA/JPFO members to take that mirrors these re: vigilance in protecting 2nd amendment and other constitutional freedoms.

  2. STINKY PINKY bites the dust for now. My one big fantasy is that Stinky has a massive stroke while in the Senate, as they wheel him out, he realizes that his seat will go to a Republican appointee, and has a massive coronary that proves to be room temp., for him!

  3. I’m sure the gun grabbers hate that we have a couple huge tragedies that are not allowing them to get full attention on their guilt trips/hissy fits.

    When you have a terrorist bombing and an industrial accident where neither involve firearms your whining rings hollow.

    I still can’t believe Obama bumped an FBI presser to pitch a fit yesterday. Disgraceful.

  4. So, every amendment failed yesterday, and we got Obama and double barrel sad face pouting in the rose garden. Where exactly is the upside for anyone to change their mind at this stage? You arn’t going to effectively club the Republicans with attack ads the way voted, and they’ve already cast the die yesterday with their votes. Voting yes today isn’t gonna make those ads go away come election season. The only upside is to continue to vote this down and give the civilian disarmament crowd ulcers.

    • Absolutely, full.tang.halo.

      The Prez got the “vote” he was clamoring for. It didn’t go his way so he and his gun grabbing crowd including the MSM are upset and pouting.

      Just as Prez conveniently forgets about the 2nd Amendment and other Constitutional protections at his convenience, he also forgets that the congress is supposed to be representative of “The People”, not just some people, or his people, or rich people, or poor people.

      The Senate actually did its job for once evaluating the true nature of the measure and amendments before them, debated, and determined that the proposed laws were not meritorious of support or in the best interest of too many of “The People”.

      Be vigilant my friends; the Prez and his conspirators will not be going away. What this group cannot achieve by legitimate means, they will try to cram down everyone’s throat by means of deceit and other illegitimate means.

  5. I don’t think there’s anything actually in the bill, it was just an empty piece of paper that amendments were to be added to. The biggest one was the original Schumer amendment which Manchin-Toomey altered. That was going to be the backbone of everything.

    • s.649 is the bill folks. It has text and I assure you it is ugly.

      This is the result of the Obama executive orders in January. Concerns from many Americans about the potential for a national gun registry resulting from the bill led to the hatching of the Toomey-Manchin amendment as an attempt to make 649 palatable.

      It’s BAD news– worth calling your Senator to reinforce the fact that it’s not even fit for toilet paper. Here is a summary of s.649

    • Yeah, I got every penny out of my first time NRA membership too.

      As always, Obama went on stage to project the guilt within his own heart onto the hearts of others. He really needs to start wagging his finger in the mirror when he goes out calling people deceivers and liars instead of wagging his finger in our face all the time.

      Superior ideas simply won the field yesterday. I tell anyone who doesn’t agree to show me their commitment to their Utopian ideals by putting a “gun free zone” sign in their yard and see how long it takes them to get robbed, or worse.

      The simple and absolute truth is that there is only one Heaven and this earth is nothing but a battlefield between good and evil. Anyone who, because of their desire for constant comfort, doesn’t want to believe that simple fact is nothing but Evil’s useful idiot.

      • Sorry Colby, but Obama doesn’t suffer from “guilt” in his own heart.

        Obama’s a political animal first and foremost. Any guilt or other feelings he portrays on gun control issues is strategic posturing for the benefit of public consumption to show how “affected” he is – so everyone who cares and has compassion must please support his efforts.

        It’s kind of like a little kid crying in order to get his way.

        Everything else you said I whole heartedly agree with.

    • Yeah, I got every penny out of my first time NRA membership too.

      As always, Obama went on stage to project the guilt within his own heart onto the hearts of others. He really needs to start wagging his finger in the mirror when he goes out calling people deceivers and liars instead of wagging his finger in our face all the time.

  6. Where did the 90% statistic come from, and can we debunk it and make viral because that sh!t just pisses me off. What polls? I am sure if you ask any question the right way you will get whatever result you want.

    I am going to bet if you ask those 90% who support background checks (if they exist) 95% will have no idea WTH it means.

    Seems like the NRA and others should be debunking the polls so can use that number any more.

    • I keep asking the useless idiots in the comment section of HuffPo to link me the the now infamous “90% poll”. Not one of about 10 has answered. Im beginning to think its a myth…

    • One poll I saw on CNN was the “gun control” was important to 4% of the people. So do 90% support background checks? Maybe (but I doubt it), but there are a whole lot of other problems that are much more important to the country.

      • There is a quinnipiac poll (probably spelled that wrong) that in January or Feb looked at 3 states, virginia, NJ and one other and polled 1600 people, google it you will find it. I don’t believe it though because when I poll people in my personal life, not many people say yes 🙂

    • I like what Mike Williamson said on his blog. (Paraphrase) You have your polls. I have a Constitution.

    • Good read. He basically did the same with Obamacare and the shutdown of Keystone. Even with his new budget, there is ZERO substance it is all about emotions. He is clearly clueless and has a clueless administration.

  7. How close was the vote on reciprocity ?
    And where are we now with traveling across state lines with legally owned firearms?
    Thanks for your collective insights.

    • If manufacturers are backlogged while operating at full capacity it will be a while before we see any ammo.

  8. The gun grabbers tears are sweet. Hopefully they keep flowing amidst all the emotional speeches they have today.

  9. Yeah I hear slow joe will be back tues with advice for the pres on how to proceed with this crap. Thats like mike tyson giving sensitivity lessons. This is a train wreck that they think is a real winner for them, Randy

  10. I absolutely detest Obama and the rest of his ilk using the term “the gun lobby” as if the only ones with a vested interest in firearms are gun industry CEOs, and at the same time calling the NRA a bully and a “special interest group”. The NRA is an organization to represent its millions of members, and the “gun lobby” are the tens of millions of gun owners across this country. “Special Interest Group” does not apply to keepers of the 2nd amendment.

  11. I purchased my Maverick 88 12g home defender shotgun at an Academy store and my son purchased a rifle and the same shotgun at a local gun show both at locations in San Antonio, Texas. We both had to fill out paper work and do the FBI backgound check. Took about 15 minutes. It is my understanding that if we buy a firearm on the internet in Texas we must have it shipped to a registered gun dealer and do the background check. Most dealers will do this for a fee. I did give a 100 year old 16ga shotgun to a newphew that my grandfatheer puchased for $4 around 1900 so I sure hope that was legal.

    Texas is as strong a gun state as there is and until this legisation on “expanded backgound checks” came up I assumed our checks were the norm for other states. Can anyone explain the expanded version of a background check. The Texas law seems pretty sound. How many states have no background check?

    • Every firearm sold by an FFL (gun dealer) in the U.S. is required by Federal law to run a BG check on the buyer. Some states allow CCW permits to be used in lieu of the NICS check, as a CCW permittee has already been subjected to a BG check. They still must fill out the forms. Some states do not regulate intrastate transfer of firearms between citizens who are not gun dealers.

      The M-T bill would have forced people who aren’t gun dealers to use a gun dealer when transferring firearms purchased at a gun show, when the parties discuss any part of the purchase online, or if an ad was placed in a newspaper or other “publication”.

      You should familiarize yourself with gun laws. Violating gun laws are a quick way to have your rights taken away. IMHO Texas isn’t even in the top 10 states with the best gun laws.

  12. I will continue to pray that the day never comes where I have to defend my God given rights with sword and shield.

  13. Pigmy, that’s the same process we all have to go through. You broke no laws giving a nephew that shotgun. Essentially what this bill would do is make private sales illegal. Where as if I posted a firearm for sale online, met up to do the transaction with a private individual, it’d have to be done through an FFL with a NICS. Same as if I wanted to sell my buddy a firearm. No more him handing me cash and me handing him a gun. We’d have to go somewhere to do a background check.

    • Just a question for debate, would you oppose the bill if you could do the NICS check on your own?

      Per you scenario above, ” if I wanted to sell my buddy a firearm.” What if all you had to do was run a check that required your permit and his permit to clear? (A system we had here in CT, and which was free until the new crap came down on us in CT and now we are screwed) Would you be opposed to that too? And, if passing that check, you are now removed from liability if you buddy then murders someone? Would you still be opposed?

      • If we could extract some additional concessions from the anti’s, I would support a (modified?) Coburn style system where a buyer can run a check through an online portal and print a paper valid for 30 days that would allow them to purchase. CCW should also serve as a BG check. Either one should provide immunity. No record keeping requirement. CCW or paper ‘purchase permit’ can be used to bypass 4473 at FFL. Name of purchaser not logged in FFLs bound book.

        In exchange for this generous give away to the antis, we should expect at a minimum:
        Reciprocity
        Interstate purchase of arms
        Mail order & online sales – delivered to the purchasers door after BG check
        Repeal Hughes Amendment
        Drop FFL price significantly
        NFA check is done by NICS
        NFA stamp dropped to $1
        Target shooting is considered a sporting use
        Take the ‘FE’ out of the BATFE and add it to the FBI. Ban on hiring former BATFE personnel

        I consider this a moderate list. Obviously, full repeal of NFA & GCA are the ideal. Also anyone not currently incarcerated or committed should be able to bear arms.

  14. I woukd take a month of Sundays of talk about National Diaphramic Hernia Awareness Arbitrary Period rather than a single anti gun bill pass.

  15. I don’t even know what is being voted on today…nor what the original bill is… Is there a good place to find details that I don’t need a law degree to understand?

  16. At least Obama and his gang of liberal thugs arent using kids as props, or other seamy tactics to push their agenda. They dont let the winds of politics interfere with their conscience.

    Stay classy guys.

  17. I’m watching Richard Blumenthal wave the bloody photograph. Just looking at Blumenthal makes me want to take a shower with carbolated soap.

  18. “President Obama, his face set with rage, stood in the Rose Garden surrounded by the families of Newtown and former Representative Gabrielle Giffords and asked how a measure to expand background checks for gun buyers … had slipped away.” – New York Times – April 17, 3013

    HAPPY PLACE! HAPPY PLACE! SNOOPY DANCE!!!!

  19. >[11:47] Blumenthal (D-CT): ”We must act before the next election.” Sounds like >he may have recognized how screwed they are once the people get to vote them >out.

    The chances of this jackass being voted out is 50/50 but there are a few others whose seats will definitely be on the chopping block by 2014

      • Begich is more pro-gun than almost all the republicans. He’s as pro-gun as Cruz and such imho. Look at his voting record. He might not win re-election, but it wouldn’t be because of this. Him and Baucus (Montana) are democrats sort of in the same way that McCain is a Republican (ie, not so much, really). If there was a third party that had Rand Paul and Cruz in it, there’d be a few dems in it and Begich and Baucus would be in that group, imho. They are dems in that they are pro-fighting for the little guy’s rights. Not dems in the new progressive “government knows best” sense that seem to have taken over the party. We need more of them. Sort of like how the republican party was over-ran with government knows best neo-cons (and still is for the most part, but there is a growing tide of good liberty minded folks, leading me to be optimistic).

        Edit: You’ll notice that both senators from Alaska don’t really fall into the mold of their particular parties. Ie, Murkowski is personally pro-life, but will vote pro-choice because that’s what her constituents want. Both Begich and Murkowski have extremely high approval ratings, last time I checked, and for good reason. They are some of the better senators around imho.

  20. now we move hopefully to phase II: recrimination. this is where the progressives blame each other, and we get the smoking gun email from a high ranking senator aide celebrating childrens death as a way to push an agenda.

  21. So the “Senate ‘turned its back’ on the families of Newtown and other shootings?” What about the millions of gun owners and law-abiding citizens they wanted the Senate to turn its back on?

    Oh, and has anyone introduced a bill yet banning or restricting the sale of pressure cookers? After all, if we’re going to blame one type of inanimate objects for the actions of lunatics, we might as well do the same other types of inanimate objects that have been used for evil intents.

  22. Pascal, yes. If it requires a 4473, as it would, then 1 billion percent yes. It’s not the government’s business who I sell personal property to. I am in no way liable for the actions of my hypothetical buddy. If he was a criminal, and I knew/had reason to believe he was and wasn’t allowed to purchase/own/be near a firearm, then obviously I would be breaking the law, prior to him even committing a crime with a firearm he purchased from me. But the bill as it sat would do nothing to curb violence, or to keep guns away from criminals/crazies.

    Maybe you should evaluate who you’re friends with sir
    /sarcasm

    • Not her cell phone. Thats the magic bullet she uses during lunch or when the Senate is just standing around!

  23. Did we want the Barrasso to pass? Seems like it protects gun owner privacy. Am I missing something?

  24. The rules of parliamentary procedure don’t permit it, but I’d love to sit in the gallery at things like Blumenthal’s speech and every time he mentions Newtown (or something like it), I’d either say out loud or hold up a sign that says “…which this law would have done nothing to prevent.” If it was a sign, I’m sure my arm would get tired.

  25. Nick, It is so awesome that you are doing this live update! This is amazing and a hell of a way to report on the political process!

    -D

  26. Are there any amendments today that make the main bill not a total disaster? If I remember correctly, the existing text is vile.

  27. I was just browsing around looking up information on the Barrasso amendment and stumbled onto his facebook page https://www.facebook.com/johnbarrasso. I don’t know how many other pages look similar to this right now for some of our representatives, but it would probably be good to try to get more pro gun support out there to combat all the bloody shirt waving hate.

  28. The Barrasso Amendment doesn’t stop Journal News style disclosure of gun owner info. That would be beyond the scope of federal power. Barrasso provides that states and local govs that do publish such info will lose 5% of “Community Oriented Policing Services” program funding. That’s it.

    Unfortunately, the Barrasso Amendment is a slap on the wrist and mostly a feel-good piece of legislation. It won’t change anything, which is why it passed.

    • Were the Brasso and Harken ammendments to Reid’s bill that won’t be voted on today, or stand alone ammendments to something else? I assumed these passed so folks could say they “tried” to vote for some reasonable solutions even if the whole bill has no chance. Amendments to a bill that doesn’t pass don’t do anything. (right?)

  29. I’m immensely enjoying laughing in the faces of family members who are anti via email and such. Sorry, I know it’s family and all, but rights are rights and enemies are enemies. Brother fought against brother in the Civil War and this cold civil war is no different.

    So throw back a beer and remember: plenty of senators voted for tyranny, Obama is a petulant child with his finger on the button, and nearly half of America is still comprised of sheep-like morons who would sooner see you dead than practicing a civil right…and that includes family and friends.

  30. Now is not the time to gloat nor dance in glee about our victory. Let us be thankful that we came together and that we are showing the country what it means to be united and free.

    Do not be hurtful to those who have differing opinions unless they physically harm you. We have taken the first small step to bring our country back from the brink of disaster. We cannot afford to rest. Let us continue our fight of “gentle” persuasion and continue our demands that this great country return to and honor its most basic roots, our constitution.

    We can be sure that the subversive forces that oppose this idea will continue their fight to corrupt our way of life. We MUST not allow it. The alternative is horrendous.

    Thank you my good fellows.

    • -Do not be hurtful to those who have differing opinions unless they physically harm you.-

      I appreciate your position, but I will treat any antis as nothing less than the domestic enemies they are. Their stance is not an opinion. “I like chocolate better than vanilla” is an opinion, and hurts no one. “I don’t think you should have the means to defend your life and the lives of your loved ones” is a mortal threat. I choose to be extremely hurtful and disrespectful towards willful idiots and closet tyrants who would see my loved ones harmed for the sake of their own stupidity or selfish false comfort.

  31. “I’m not sure if the bill itself will be brought up today or if Reid will back off and try to get more support through back room deals.”

    Any ideas on what a “backroom deal” with a chance of passing might look like at this point?

  32. Question for the TTAG writers and readers: what if background checks did not, and in fact COULD NOT, lead to a registry? Do you think a background check bill would pass, and would you be okay with it, if it prevented a registry?

    Seems to me the solution here is so simple. If they just remove the firearm description and serial number portion from the Form 4473, we’d be there, wouldn’t we? Make a new form (Form 4474? 4473A?) which lists all the same questions, and includes the necessary identifying information to perform the background check… but remove the section where it identifies the firearm in question. If you did that, it would not be a national registry, and could never become a national registry. It would, instead, become what it’s supposed to be — a BACKGROUND CHECK. And ONLY a background check.

    I could support a bill like that. It could “close the Gun Show Loophole”. It would “do something” (because we know that’s what’s all-important, right, is that our elected officials be seen “doing something”). It wouldn’t really inconvenience the law-abiding citizen, I mean, most of us are going through the background check system anyway, aren’t we?

    So what if Manchin-Toomey were to be resurrected, eliminating that one little tidbit of information (the one that makes our existing, de-facto registry exist already, if only on paper)… maybe this could be the “grand compromise” that shows that we, the gun owners, are on the same side as the other team when it comes to doing everything legally necessary and possible to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals… while at the same time, forever removing and destroying the possibility of their ever being a national firearms registry.

    What do you say — would you support it?

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *