This past Saturday was Take A Newbie Shooting Day, and I had about 15 people joining me at the Bullet Hole range in San Antonio. It was a convenient drive for everyone, and offered some private shooting bays so we could have people running handguns and rifles at the same time. In theory, it was ideal for the day. In practice, it was awful.
When I woke up on Saturday morning, it had been raining for a good few hours. For every other range in the city this isn’t a problem, since they have covered shooting positions and gravel covering the ground to keep from getting muddy. Bullet Hole, on the other hand, is one gigantic mudpit. Even walking through the complex to the range, the pavement lasts only a few yards before the muddy mess that is Texas mud takes over.
Thankfully it had only just rained so there wasn’t enough time for the water to soak in, but I’ve been at the range days after a rainstorm only to leave with my shoes and all my gear caked with mud. Its annoying, it makes an awful mess, and in the summer its a prime breeding ground for the mosquitoes that roam the place in great swarms.
Before even getting a range assigned, we were treated to the worst customer service I’ve ever experienced.
Since this is one of the bigger ranges in the city, people generally start showing up and queuing for a private bay around a half hour before the range opens. Ranges can be reserved during the week, but weekends is a first come first served deal. This particular weekend was also the CHL licensing course (which sucks, I’ve taken it, don’t recommend it at all) so the microscopic parking lot was already full. Which means that we all had to park along the street, which has limited visibility thanks to some steep hills at either end of the street. Not a very safe start to the day, and the range wasn’t even “open” yet.
When the doors finally opened, there was one guy manning the counter. One. And I should mention that the line was a good 20 people long at this point, actually on the smaller side for a normal Saturday. And yet there was only one person to deal with all the people wanting to use the range.
What makes this even better is that this guy who was manning the register was 100% “tunnel vision” focused on selling some guy an Arsenal AK pistol for $900+. Which meant that the line of people patiently waiting was ignored.
For a good 20 minutes.
That’s 20 minutes where the only employee at the counter was doing nothing but doing a transfer. No one was handing out paperwork to speed things up. No one was even making an effort to be efficient.
By the time I finally paid my money and was issued one of the bays, I had been waiting in line 30 minutes past opening. And I was second in line.
I told the guy behind the counter that I was expecting more people, and he said it was cool and he’d send them back. So I popped out the door and went to practice my draw while waiting for the rest of the guys. Turns out that they were only a few places in line, and they turned up AN HOUR later.
It took the guy OVER AN HOUR AND A HALF to take money from 20 people and hand them a slip of paper saying which range they were on.
When my friends got to the range, we started the Take A Newbie Shooting day in earnest. The newbies were loving it, the experienced guys were having a blast shooting all the cool guns, and a good time was had by all. Until a few minutes later we were told to leave.
When I rented the range, we were given a two hour chunk of time to shoot. That’s the deal: you pay your money, and you get two hours of range time. I had been there two hours, but everyone else had been there less than one thanks to the guy behind the counter.
I told everyone to stay on the range while I sorted the situation out. When I got to the counter (with the same guy behind it) no one was there. There was no line, there was no one waiting, and everyone was happily shooting. So I did what seemed logically acceptable — I offered to hand him more money for continued use of the range. He said no.
We argued for a bit, and it came down to his boss being angry that people were extending their range time in the bays. I guess it wasn’t making them enough money to have the same people in the bay for two blocks of time, so they wanted to cycle more people through. I asked if we left and came back could we have another bay — the answer was no. And it wasn’t a polite “no,” the guy was actively being a dick. Even though some of our group had been on the range WAY less than the two hours they paid for, which was completely due to their own crappy customer service, we were being kicked out and not allowed to rent the range again.
Some of the staff tried to argue my point, saying that there was no one waiting and that I should be allowed to hand them more money, but the guy behind the counter was having none of that “logic” stuff. Apparently we were in the way of paying customers. Who were invisible.
The Bullet Hole range used to be run by nice people, and in an efficient manner. But those days are long since gone. What we have now are power-tripping employees and cash hungry owners that don’t care about customer service. They offer a sub-standard facility with poor accommodations that isn’t well maintained at all, and charge an arm and a leg for using it.
Oh, and if you ever bring an NFA item with you, they demand to see your papers. Doesn’t matter that they aren’t ATF agents, doesn’t matter that you’re not legally required to carry those registration documents, they demand to see the paperwork. Which I always found to be a bit invasive.
I had had enough. When we handed in our target stands and they handed back my range membership card, I whipped out my pocket knife and sliced it in half leaving the pieces on the desk. I will never go back to that range ever again. I left the Bullet Hole range and drove the 45 minutes to the Bracken Range on the northside to sight in my new competition rifle instead of paying to use their 50 yard range.
It was one of the worst experiences I’ve ever had on a range, and it feels good to vent. Especially when you can vent to 1.4 million readers and on a site that is beloved by the Google search engine.
I work in cell phone retail and if I treated a customer the way you were treated my ass would be on the curb. Some people are just stupid, and you know what they say “Can’t fix stupid”
Really? Seems like that’s how I’m treated every time at my wireless store.
Maybe I should switch to your carrier.
I wish that were true everywhere, but alas, most stores these days take the attitude that the customer is always right–right here in line to pay, to ask a question, to find an advertised product, whatever.
But you can spay or neuter it, then hit stupid with a 2×4.
+1
> people generally start showing up and queuing for a private bay
> around a half hour before the range opens.
Evidence that there is more demand for places to shoot than exists.
If the “gun culture” had done a better job of making shooting convenient and enjoyable to more people, there might actually be more people with a vested interest in their gun rights.
While we like to spout figures of a gajillion gun owners in America, most of them buy a gun, stick it in their night stand, and rarely — if ever — shoot it. So when crap like the current insantiy happens, those people — while gun owners — really don’t have a reason to take and interest, or really care, about civilian disarmament efforts.
Most gun ranges suck. Maybe not as bad as Nick’s latest experience, but they do suck. People who are into guns, like most of us are, may be willing to put up with a lot of crap to enjoy our hobby. But try to convince the ambivilent suburbanite who has other things competing for her time, attention, and resources (e.g., kids, work, mortgage, social life, etc. ) to put up with “gun range culture” because “guns are important” has been a long-term mistake. In some ways, the gun culture has been very condescending to the very people we should have been recruiting 10 – 20 years ago.
For years I’ve believed that economics, demographics, geography, and development are a longer-term threat to the gun culture than Schumer, Feinstien, Brady, etc. would be. While that’s definitely not true in the short term, if we survive the current assault I fear we’re going to go back to making the same mistakes we were making in the 20-year calm between the storms.
Right on. Dang you’re good at this…
So true, and indeed the real hazard to the joys of shooting. I suffered for years with various ranges and only one was a real pleasure to visit. Finally got a place of my own. There’s something about being around guns with a little authority thrown in that brings out the boorish, condescending, Barney Fife qualities in otherwise normal people. Lots of gun shops are the same.
> There’s something about being around guns
> with a little authority thrown in
This.
We pride ourselves on being “free” and “independent-minded” people.
Yet when we go to the range, we are often micro-managed, which offends our sensibilities. I understand that, as a business, ranges have to worry about liability, but it doesn’t make the experience any more enjoyable. Add to that that there are some, seemingly a lot, of range operators/officers who do have some type of Napoleon-complex, and who you’re going to deal on any given day becomes a crap shoot.
Then there is the problem of a range’s layout, that has nothing to do with authoritarianism. A lot of ranges have everybody shoot from the same line, with the entire range either “hot” or “cold” at the same time. Some people will want to be doing rapid-fire drills, and need to change their targets every five minutes. Others may be developing an uber-accurate load, and need to change their targets only once every hour becuase they fire one shot every 10 minutes, while taking notes. There is no happy medium.
And forget about variable-distance targets. When I take newbies out shooting (something I do not do anymore), I like to start them at 5 – 10 yards; whether it’s a rifle of pistol. If I’m at a traditional range where the target stands are a fixed-distance (usually 25 yards), it becomes an exercise in pointlessness and wasting ammo.
Oh sure, I can bring my own portable target stands and set them up closer to the firing line (although some ranges do not allow this), but go back up two paragraphs to read why this isn’t a solution. The culture of the range, and not the student-teacher relationship, ends up dictating the pace of insruction. Most ranges are not conducive to “take a newbie shooting”, which is what we’re supposed to be doing; right?
In 2002, John Ross, the author of Unintended Consequences, gave a speech stating that “In Many Wyas, Things Are Better For Us [Gun Owners] Now Than They Ever Have Been In The Past“. Read the whole thing, but one of the things he predicted 11 years ago was
The “proliferation of indoor ranges” has not happened. Urban, and suburban, dwelling citizens do not have convenient access to places to shoot.
I understand that government and environmenmental regulations are partly to blame. But there is a demand that the market has not met, and the “gun culture” bears a share of the responsbility. Even a plethora of small, indoor, .22 only ranges would have given more people a stake in the future of gun ownership — something we really need right now. Instead of building lots of small shooting ranges close to where people are, what I saw at the time (10+ years ago), was an effort to build yet another large shooting range several hours outside of Denver. As far as I know, that never happened, either.
Think about movie theaters, bars, or restaraunts. I can call up my friends on short notice, and within an hour we can all be together having a good time, regardless of where each of us lives. But going to those shooting ranges in the middle of nowhere is more akin to planning a day trip; something that has to be done at least a day in advance and is never spontaneous. And we never know if, once we drive 1 to 2 hours outside the city, whether the range will be too crowded to shoot, resulting in a waste of time and gas.
I’d like to see going to a shooting range, even if it’s “.22 only”, as cheap and easy and covenient as going to the movies is now.
[This is another one of those thoughts running through my mind for over a decade that I haven't really been able to articulate as well as I would like. Since then, the cost of gas has become non-trivial, making the problem worse. If anyone can add to or improve on this, feel free to].
+1. It’s true that regulations, zoning, and Nimby fanatics have made opening and running a range more difficult.
That said, there is a culture (or fog, or something in the drinking water) of gun ranges and stores that is not-customer service or newbie friendly. The gun culture needs what coffee has had for decades: a Howard Shultz / “Gunbucks”…
> That said, there is a culture (or fog, or something in
> the drinking water) of gun ranges and stores that is
> not-customer service or newbie friendly
And that’s the part I really have not been able to define or articulate well over the past decade — although the way you phrased it is awesome, and I may steal it in the future.
Perhaps the word is “arrogance”? e.g., “I own a gun, therefore I am better than you.” I don’t know. Like I said, this has been bothering me for over 10 years, and it’s still more of a constant whisper in the back of my mind rather than a coherent thought I can articulate well.
But what makes this problem worse is that we believe we are “newbie friendly”, when the gun culture really is not.
You realize that zoning boards and municipal governments have a lot more to do with this than “the gun culture”, right?
> You realize that zoning boards and municipal
> governments have a lot more to do with this
> than “the gun culture”, right?
I acknowledge this in my comment.
Somehow, the market manages to meet the demand for certain drugs that are illegal. Given the large, unmet demand for places to shoot, I’m sure somebody with some brains and money could figure out something, even if it’s a chain of small .22-only ranges.
Instead, the gun culture seems focused on a few, large ranges that have all of the problems I wrote about in my comments above, because that’s the way it’s always been done.
What would be better: one range that can accommodate 100 shooters, or 20 ranges than can accommodate 5 shooters each? The two aren’t mutually exclusive, but I think the latter market-strategy is what needs to be done.
And strangely, the Bullet Hole was never heard of again…
Well, at least you gave them some free advertising Nick, Randy
There actually is such a thing as bad publicity. Ask Smith & Wesson or Magpul.
Yeah, it sounds terrible, I’m going to go check it out!
Phew! Nasty folks. They won’t be in business long. If you have a few bucks, you might want to watch for the place to go up for sale. Rename it the “Leghorn Bullet Hole Range”. And sit back and reap the big bucks. Also, the lawsuits, whining public, and buddies looking for freebies.
Why would anyone place a beautiful weapon such as that 1911 on the dirt to take a picture?
Glad you posted this article, I completely agree. They’re terrible. A while back I was going to drive down to San An from Austin because I saw that Bullet Hole had some SIG 553′s for rent (wanted to try before putting 4.5g’s down!). I called to confirm that they still had the guns and were available for rent and was told by the guy on the phone that they only had Sig pistols for rent and he had no idea what I was talking about (even though their website, still today, says they have them ready for rent) in the most “I don’t care about you” tone possible. Dude even just hung up on me before I could ask any other questions.
How do people like this even stay in business? According to a quick google search, there’s at least three other ranges in San An to go to…
When equilibrium returns they won’t stay in business. Acting like the only hooker on the Vegas strip works only while you are the only hooker on the Vegas strip. The most surprising thing I find is that this is coming from Texas. I did spend some time at Lackland AFB in the early 70′s and I can’t say that San Antonio treated service men with any more courtesy than you received at Bullet Hole. Maybe, if they catch wind of this post, management will see the errors of their ways. I have a retail store and deal with the public 7 days a week about 355 days a year. Not everyone who comes through your door will allow you to exhibit courteous customer service, but one of the prerequisites of customer service is not to allow irritating people to encumber you relationship with the next person you offer services to. No business can exist solely on new customers. Successful establishments usually have an extensive amount of loyal, repeat customers.
Take it to Yelp dot com and Google Places to post up your reviews.
Link it here so people with similar experiences can +1 it, submit their own reviews, and spread the word.
They’ll be begging you to come back and experience the new and improved Bullet A-Hole range when their net profit suddenly dip into the red.
“… the new and improved Bullet A-Hole range…”
I see what you did there
> Bullet A-Hole
Or, just prounounce “Bullet Hole” in pig-French:
bull-a hole
I went to the Bullet Hole years ago on the recommendation of a buddy and hated it. Didn’t have any CS problems or anything I just didn’t like the place and for me it was far.
Nowadays I live about five minutes from Bracken, but about an hour from a few acres in Lulling!
I live within earshot of bracken. I think it’s the best range in town. The only thing they need to address is the driveway leading from Marbach down to the range parking lot. It’s also too bad they were forced by douchebag shooters to disallow offhand shooting on the rifle line.
As soon as I see a power tripper, I just leave. Those are the worst kind of a-holes. They get any little bit of power and it goes straight to their head.
I hope they change their ways but I’m guessing they’d rather go bankrupt first.
You’re so right, these sorts never learn.
Good to know, thanks for the warning, I will not visit them.
It’s good to have friends with land in the country. Who needs a shooting range?
I do, sadly.
Also I would NEVER ask someone who I called a friend if I could bring 15 people to his property to make a bunch of noise, that would be very uncool, he’d have to offer at which point I’d consult his wife lol just to double check.
My CHL instructor lets all his former students shoot on his property for free as long as they pick up their brass. You can bring visitors too, as long as everyone has eye and ear protection.
That wouldn’t be Tom Schaefer, would it?
I shoot at Cedar Ridge at Bulverde sometimes and it seems to be good place to take beginners to. Maybe the OP should try that next time
Sadly, there are far too many ranges that aren’t welcoming to new or experienced shooters.
Despite current NY Times reports that there are fewer households that own guns, we all know that there are new shooters out there. If we are to survive politically, we need to embrace the new shooters, particularly people who support gun control. There is nothing like an enjoyable trip to the range and letting them shoot the first time to help them view the issue another way.
And then we hit the range….and the range officers that make us all cringe. We all know them. Whether it is a tirade about 9mm are not for “real men” or repeating the latest reincarnation of some e-mail myth circulating, they reinforce the stereotype we are trying to break.
And then “helping” us instructors to instruct…
Is there any hope that range owners can realize that good customer service is not only good for business but good for the political side of gun ownership?
what’s with that ftf?
Living in Lake Havasu Az. we have a City owned range $60 a year, BUT anyone can come and Shoot on Weekends and Wnesday. or other time if the gate is open.
Just DON’T be the last car out on off days, the gate will be locked.
There is are 6 Skeet & Trap ranges. $6 for non menbers.
Numerous Pistol & Rifle ranges Covered for SUN & rain protection, we never get rain though.
“… When we handed in our target stands and they handed back my range membership card, I whipped out my pocket knife and sliced it in half leaving the pieces on the desk. …”
A little passive-aggressive there Nick.
Well done sir. You were certainly more pleasant to that gentleman behind the counter than I would’ve been. Especially taking into consideration your friends being shorted range time.
Receiving mediocre service in firearm related vendors is the norm now and the best you can hope for ordinarily. Your experience is all too common. Unfortunately.
But that’s what happens when you artificially restrict supply for goods and services. I’ve noticed a striking similarity in shitty customer service experiences I’ve had in gun stores and (in Pennsylvania) state-run liquor stores.
Is it just me or did some of those shell cases in the video look deformed when they were ejected?
It may be that the proprietor thought you were operating introductory shooting lessons, a product he markets? I used to run into that on tennis courts when ‘teaching’ newbie friends.
I didn’t get a single email for TANS Day, even though I signed up on the website. I did, however, take my wife a couple weeks ago for the first time in ten years. She’s not a “gunny” at all, but this time she actually seemed to enjoy it. Having a patient instructor who listens and sets them up for success and having a decent range make a world of difference.
That sounds like the customer service in a large gun shop/outdoor gear retailer here in Northern Michigan. Everytime, and I mean everytime, I bring my wife there we get stuck with a jerk from hell helping us. Now when I go there by myself or with my Dad we always seem to get helped by a friendly employee. I try to convince my wife that decent people DO indeed work there. It’s frustrating because she’s still learning and may not know all the technical firearm terminology but nonetheless is trying and is very safe with how she handles guns. It does our side no good, gentleman that work in gun stores, ranges etc. to make women and/or newbies feel stupid or to be rude to them.
Jay’s?
Reminds me of a great range experience in northeastern Illinois. By great, I mean skunktacular.
Had to have my legally owned pistols locked by the front desk. Negligent gun handling, check.
The case was tagged with a yellow flag for the 50 yard trip across the Cabelas to the 2nd Floor gun range.Whereupon the range officer clips the yellow flag and unlocks my own property with THEIR keys.
I go to the line , and after this ledgerdemain am greeted with this sign:
“No Rapid Fire”
At the end of the session, I rapid fire as many 9mm through the 32 round no name mag as my trigger finger can manage. Not a peep from the RO, as this procedure is now reversed for the trip back to the parking lot.
Seeing all the grief and hassle a group went through to try to open a range here in the very red, rural Indiana I can understand why this happens. They know they have a captive market so why should they care?
Thanks for reminding us that are things worse than not shooting.
Just as there are indeed worse things than not voting. I find more and more elections are like having to choose whether to be drawn and quartered and burned at the stake.
You know I’ve never been to a civilian pay gun range….can’t see that I’m missing out on much.
I’m not sure if we even have any in this state. The DNR has a number of public ranges open for free but I don’t even use them. Seems strange to me to have to pay to shoot my own gun not counting ammo of course.
Is this them?
http://www.facebook.com/BulletHoleShootingComplex?ref=ts&fref=ts
- D
Yup, that’s them.
Go to cedar ridge or Bexar Community! Black hawk isn’t to bad if it weren’t on the other side of the city!!
Just as a bit of counterpoint, let me share my experience:
I shoot at the Bullet Hole, but I avoid the weekends because it’s always crowded (it’s near my office, so I shoot on weeknights) and the rainy days (about 4-5 days a year, it seems). I agree their desk is undermanned and woefully inefficient, but I’ve never experience the rudeness you mentioned. They don’t limit your time or charge by the gun (unlike Bracken), I can paste as many targets as I want (unlike Bracken) their ROs are usually not too lax or too strict. Their prices are competitive with the rest of San Antonio (for range use, can’t speak to their gun sales).
Pingback: Well, this is gonna suck for the BulletHole
Having shot at every range in San Antonio, I can observe that you get muddy at every range in after it ranges. Cedar Ridge Range cancels matches when it rains (the range not the club). And, the mosquitoes come from the neighboring business as the range sprays for mosquitoes.
Also, I observe that he has apparently visited the range before after the rain so… what did he expect?
Being that busy, I would if they really need your business. Go shoot one of those other ranges that are so much better.
Was the guy getting his firearm in line ahead of you? Guess you should have got their sooner… Must be a pretty awesome world you live in were YOU get customer service before those who arrived ahead of you.
I observe now you are saying that you can’t organize your friends, so that must be the range’s fault. Why didn’t you just get “efficient” and pay for everyone and collect the money from them on the range. Or, you wait for your entire party to be present so you all get your shooting and rental started at the same time. This is the 21st century: Smart phones, text messages, even a simple phone call.
Of all that has been written I do believe they do have a dude behind the counter who wouldn’t see the value of just taking payment for another rental time. But… the guy is doing what his boss says.
I wonder if his attitude had ANYTHING to do with your attitude? Naw, I’m certain you were perfectly reasonable… And I wonder if they decided you weren’t worth the money. Maybe they’d rather see you gone than deal with your blame others for your inability to coordinate a group of friends.
Regarding the NFA paperwork… where are you standing when you are on the range? You are on someone else’s property. They decide how you act. They decide if you get to shoot an NFA item without proving lawful ownership. They have a liability risk if someone is shooting a Class III illegally. They bear the brunt of a media onslaught if someone is arrest with a homemade machine gun on the range.
“I whipped out my pocket knife and sliced it in half leaving the pieces on the desk. I will never go back to that range ever again. I left the Bullet Hole range and drove the 45 minutes to the Bracken Range on the northside to sight in my new competition rifle instead of paying to use their 50 yard range.”
Ooooooooh, you are so tough, and dramatic. What an awesome gesture. Btw, they have a 100, 200, and 300 range for the real men who can shoot a rifle.
Also, I shared your rant with the owner, the proper person to air your grievance to.
First, I was second in line behind another guy who was renting a bay. The gun buyer in question skipped the line and walked directly into the store before they were “open.” We were patiently waiting for the range to open, and he skipped the line.
Second, exactly how hard is it to put in some gravel and a little drainage system? The rain in West Virginia is worse, but the ranges I used out there were gravel covered and never muddy. There’s a difference between “a little mud” and nearly losing your boots to the mud as you try to put up targets.
Third, my friends were on time. They were in line no later than 10:10, and if things were properly run they would have joined me on the range within minutes. However, due to the lack of organization, it took them an hour to get through the line. My friends aren’t dicks, they wait their turn, assuming (like any other reasonable person) that the people running the place have their act together.
I do like how you’re attacking me personally, though, instead of simply questioning the issues I raised. Classy.
Let me reiterate a bit more forcefully. Your statement, “For every other range in the city this isn’t a problem, since they have covered shooting positions and gravel covering the ground to keep from getting muddy,” is… troubling.
Again, Cedar Ridge cancels USPSA matches when they get rain and they have less gravel or concrete than the Bullet Hole. This happens to be a fact that any reader can verify with a visit to the range and any USPSA shooter in San Antonio and probable Austin will recall that Alpha-Mike were rained out for something like 3 matches in early 2012.
Likewise Blackhawk has less gravel/concrete at their range than the Bullet Hole. Again, this can be verified with a visit. The private bays at the River City bays are totally dirt.
Or, simply look at the aerial photographs of all three ranges. In those aerial photographs one will also observe the cover on bays 4, 5, and 6. In the video above is clear evidence you were on Bay 5 (maybe 6). See those walls, Nick. They only exist on Bays 4 – 6. Oops…
In addition, the Bullet Hole DOES have covered shooting positions, at the rifle range (50 and 100 – 300 for real shooters) and the public pistol line, with concrete at all three locations. Oops…
So, what you are facing is the need to explain why you, ahem, exaggerated the differences and vast superiority of other ranges over Bullet Hole (maybe you misspoke). And, following that, explain why we should believe you are not, ahem, exaggerating/misstating the treatment you received at the hands of Martin.
The employee you were dealing with was Martin. There is no way Martin was rude, I think his observation on your declaration he was rude was, “lie.” Maybe I don’t remember clearly. Kinda like not recalling cover or maybe I imagined it, like imagining gravel and such at Blackhawk or Cedar Ridge (both fine ranges, btw).
What will be more interesting is that all activity in the office is both video and audio taped. They have a sign out front. I wonders how that will work out for ya…
The other guy named appears to be David; a “volunteer” (friend of the owner who hangs out). He is not privy to the policies nor is in charge of anything. The owner has a policy that you don’t extend rental time. Here is one reason why- some dude who can’t organize his stuff shows up at 10 am, he rents the bay. His buddies arrive later and no matter what time they actually get to pay because they wait in line like all other customer, they don’t get to the bay for another 30 – 90 minutes. At the 2 hours mark the staff gets the radio call to clear the range because disorganized dude’s time is up. Sometimes he now plays for another 30 – 90 minutes of bay rental because his buddies just got there. Sound familiar?
Now, you recognized the need to pay for the time, but the policy is no back-to-back turn around rentals. Sorry, Charlie.
Thank you for admitting the truth that the AK transfer was done BEFORE the range opened. Admit the office opened on time.
This means you are bitching about a special arrangement to conduct the transfer at time it would not interfere with range operations like… renting bays to people who don’t appreciate a business which operates to give them a place to shoot.
Again, if you don’t want to be reasonable and wait for the office staff to hear what the customer in front of you (or your buddies) wish to do (ya know, learn if they want to visit the rifle line, pistol line, rent a bay, buy ammo, get eye or ear-pro (provided at no cost) accept money and run the credit card through the approval)… then organize your visit better. If not, then… well, bye. That all that takes OH MY GAWD!!! A FEW MINUTES PER PERSON!!! How do you survive?
So you seem to have the skinny on what happened yet if the tone of your reply is anything like the service that was provided I’ll tend to beleive Nick’s version. You have not once appologized for any of the negative aspects of their experience or even given any constructive explanations for why they may have been delt with in the manner they were. You simply attacked him and I’m sorry but in the retail world the phrase the customer is always right should be the mantra. to hear you or others state what do you expect in a city with so many people .. I woul dexpect the owners to have enough employees on hand to deal with FFL transfers AND get paying CUSTOMERS/MEMBERS on and off the range efficiently. I thankfully do not live in SA anymore and glad that here I have a great local/private range to shoot at and do not have to deal with douchebags that clearly see there are issues but do not seem to care about correcting them.
good job!! see how much sense simple & rational thoughts/questions can make??
You guys do realize that the tone of your post, and the way you twist his words for the purposes of your reply, are, if anything, lending credence to his point that you suck at customer service? Because, truly, if that’s the way you respond to a disgruntled customer, then you do suck at it, period, even if everything you wrote is correct.
Let me translate some of this:
“The employee you were dealing with was Martin. There is no way Martin was rude, I think his observation on your declaration he was rude was, ‘lie.’”
–”There’s no way my friend was rude. You should not question me on this. I am a completely unbiased arbiter of whether my friends are rude to strangers, particularly when I don’t actually observe the interaction where my friend was allegedly rude. Need further proof? I asked my friend whether he was rude, and he denied it.”
“The other guy named appears to be David; a ‘volunteer’ (friend of the owner who hangs out). He is not privy to the policies nor is in charge of anything.”
– “Businesses with regular busy periods always benefit from having some non-employee in there shooting the breeze with the owner and employees while customers are backing up.”
“This means you are bitching about a special arrangement to conduct the transfer at time it would not interfere with range operations like… renting bays to people who don’t appreciate a business which operates to give them a place to shoot.”
– “If it weren’t for all the damned customers, customer service would be so much easier. Since we are kind enough to open a business for you to patronize, please show your appreciation by putting your money on the counter without speaking with us. No eye contact, either.”
And some of you call me a troll. This kind of customer service is inexcusable.
Yikes… sounds like TERRIBLE customer service. And to a person who’s a member? Yeah, I’d slice my membership card in half too.
Too bad that probably don’t realize that they not only lost your business, they lost the business of all the people you brought to the range, including the newbies for “take a newbie shooting day”.
We talk all the time on this blog how the gun community needs to do a better job of reaching out and teaching more people both the joy and logic of owning firearms. I guess a visit to this range is a reminder of how NOT to do it.
The owners are just as responsible as the individual behind the counter. I would be researching the other ranges in the area…
Wow thank god I live in the sticks where I just go to the hills to shoot… We have a public range here, no RO, annual membership is voluntary… And the public volunteer twice a year to clean everything up, and then th is BLM land everywhere else
I live in San Antonio and my wife and I have family passes at the bullet hole. NEVER had a problem with any rudeness at all. In fact, we find them to be very friendly there. San Antonio as a whole is not a friendly city but the folks that work there are some of the friendliest we have encountered. You are right about the mud but it only rains about 10 days out of the year here so it isn’t all that big a deal. We just bring an extra pair of shoes and change them when we come off the range. They are mis-managed as the desk operations are extremely in efficient. for example, when you come off the range, you get in line with everyone else and wait just to return your target and get your card back. They need one line for returns only and that would speed things up. Also need a separate line for when someone is new and getting a new card which takes some time. We like the bullet hole better then Bracken (where you can wait for as much as an hour to get on the range) Cedar Ridge (which has crappy target amenities) and A Place To Shoot (way on the south side of town and not real convenient). Like another guy said, they don’t charge by the gun, it’s one flat fee per person. If I were you, I’d give it another try.
And I complain that I need an annual $10 permit to shoot in my own backyard. I don’t feel so bad now.
So the first guy in line had the full attention of the attendant, sounds like good customer service to me. Who cares if he wanted to buy all the guns, he was first in line. Inconvenient? Yes but hey, that’s the way it is.
If you had been to The Bullet Hole before you would realize they are generally busy, more so on the weekends. Did you expect a range in the 7th largest city in the nation to not be busy on the weekend?
You failed to mention that a private bay only costs $15 for two hours, a very fair price to be able to shoot on your own without an RO breathing down your neck. Not only that but $10 for unlimited range time with as many guns as you like. Contrary to the other range you visited.
If you don’t like the rarity of mud in San Antonio there’s an indoor range that will charge you more and make you buy their ammo!
What I can’t understand is why, in a time that is becoming hard on gun owners, would you sling mud on people within your community, people who support our rights?
To me you’re no better than somebody selling a Pmag for $70, good riddance.
He wasn’t first in line.
Apologies, I was wrong. Was he in front of you?
There were two guys waiting on the line in front of me, a father and son who I chatted with who were getting a bay (counting them together since one bay). The guy who was buying the gun walked straight past the line and through the closed door before the store opened. We assumed he was working there, but I guess not.
Had to re-read. I see he skipped ahead, unfortunate to be sure, I’m sorry you had a bad experience but I feel they are one of San Antonio’s best ranges and offer the most for your dollar.
I am in the first stages of building an indoor range in Iowa. It sounds like a lot of headaches await me,but having dealt with the public for over 30 years I do know how not to hack someone off. Nick did the right thing.
Considering how our nation loves its gun owners and supports us in every way possible, I guess we all need something to bitch about.
Walk out the back door, load the 23, and have fun, country living!
Wow! This kind of story makes me appreciate the day fee on my range (about $14 for the whole day) and the friendly people behind the counter. Give it a try, Nick. They are Lone Star Gun Range in Lockhart.
Hill Country Shooting Sports Center, Inc., Kerrville TX, one of my favorites. Owner and his wife usually work counter. It’s bit of a hike from San Antonio but so worth it!
We have property outside of Frericksburg off Hwy 16, so week ends we are there, usually includes range time. http://hillcountryshootingsports.com
Another favorite is Lone Star Gun Range, outside of Lockhart, also owned by family
http://www.lonestargunrange.com It’s the one San Marcos ladies shooting league,
A Girl & A Gun, uses.
If owner is no where to be found on a regular basis, I’m not interested
If it deals with guns or cars, there always seems to be an asshat to deal with.
regarding nick and steve’s dispute, WOW!!!! i have been to most austin and san antonio, oak hill, liberty hill ranges. yes the bullet hole is usually a real pc of work. extremely inefficiently run, need separate entrance/exit lines, def lack of customer service. not ALWAYS rude, but pretty often, and just the “yea, yea, whatever. i’ll get to you when i get to you’ attitude!!!!!!!! but yes, to me, my dad & son, it is extremely rude. to have that kind of attitude when we have nothing to do with you hating your job or hating you have to deal with people, is totally unnecessary. ooops, back to “steve.” dang man u obviously have a side in this story!!! you mention the guys by name when nick did not. nice he chose not to mention them by name, but you did. you were so aggressive in your attacks and nasty, snide comments, that it really ruined your credibility. i think nick was prob a little exaggerating, but hes the one who got the bad service, so hes allowed, as long as he doesnt attack anyone personally. but your attack was so personal and defensive, you ruined your own support. just my thoughts but ive been there before, too.
Sort of reminds me of Clarks’ Brothers in VA. Shithole run by assholes.
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A guy who is a significant party to a blog and webpage runs a factually inaccurate scorched earth post on a “one of our own,” and the sniveling is that I called him on his inacccurate statements and point out most of his problems are of his own creation and the unreasonable expectations that the ground not be muddy after a rain?
Chopper Reid has some advise for some y’all…
Had Nick wrote to the owner via the contact information on the webpage and been blown off he might have cause to blast the place. Had he organized his outting better and been mistreated, he might have cause to complain. Had he accurately reported the condition and structure and maintenance of the range, he might have cause to complain. If he weren’t crying about the range taking care of gun sale before the range opened to him (so that it didn’t inconvenience him), he might have cause to complain. If the range didn’t spray for mosquitoes, he’d have reason to complain (though they make this stuff called Deep Woods Off… should be in every range bag).
To me it looks like he is blaming the range for his embarassing failure of organization.
What is telling in this man’s opinion is the silence when facts are presented and notice of audio recording of conversation in the office was made known.
I predict that if Nick was mistreated he will hear from the owner with an appology and Martin will be fired. She might post the appology here, she ain’t afraid of yous guys. If not, he still might hear from the owner… but Martin will still be there. He is a polite and professional individual who does his best to give you, his fellow shooters, the best customer service he can.
Nick’s only real complaint that I can discern might be an overly strict dictate on how bay rental is to be conducted. To that point, he can always take it up with the owner in a polite and professional manner instead of blasting a place.
I wouldn’t want to go to a shop where “Steve”works…
Steve seems to be very knowledgeable about the incident- and as others have already pointed out under Steves previous comments, the tone of his posts is very telling. I feel the same as the other posters in who to believe copped the attitude first…
Luckily the outdoor ranges near me are real nice- uncovered wooden walkways out to the covered bays and grass or gravel out to the lines.
I’ve only ever had one bad experience, at a local indoor range. The only ammo I could find was a couple boxes of Tulammo 9mm. Well, the guy working the counter told me I could not shoot the Tulammo there. His reason? Their backstop was not rated for steel… I tried to show and explain how the only part of the ammo that was steel was the casing, which does not go downrange, and that the bullet itself was basically the same as all other ammo. The only way they would let me shoot there would be to buy a box of Blazer Brass from them for the very high mark up price of $35 per 50….
I asked to speak to a manager, hoping to talk to someone who would understand Brass vs. Steel, but I think it was Steve who I spoke to next. I even offered to pick up all the steel casings, no dice.
Love the attempt to walk back from the ad hominem attack on Nick.
If your attitude and temperament reflect that of Bullet Hole management they better invest in some serious customer service training. If you’re just one of its frequent patrons you have single-handedly convinced me I’m better off never having set foot in the place.
All of this just makes me super grateful that I have access to a good local indoor range, plus a FREE outdoor range. Its about a 40 minute drive to the Wildlife Management Area, but they have 3 covered lines (25, 50, and 100 yards) plus 1 uncovered line (100 yards), and NO fees, or range bosses or anything. Its all self regulated. But you do need to have your $15 fishing/small game license in the event that a game warden stops by. I always thought that north Alabama was lagging behind when it came to gun culture, but maybe we have it better than I thought.
Seems to me, the rental of a shooting lane/bay STARTS when the first person in a party assumes possession of the lane/bay..
If someone else arrives 60 minutes later, or several other people arrive 60 minutes later, the possession of the range lane/bay does not ‘reset’ with the arrival of late buddies to use that particular lane.
If you want to shoot as a group, you would need to arrive as a group and start off shooting at the same time. This sounds like me suggesting that since my wife did not arrive at our Hotel room until 9 pm, while I arrived at the hotel room at 9am, we are entitled to a extra 12 hours in the room because she did not enjoy access to the room that I rented during the initial 12 hours I paid for it..
It sounds like Nick was too eager to get out there, and should have simply waited for his group of friends to arrive and then all of them could go in to shoot at the same time and for the same period, but he went in a hour before them, and this reduced the time for his entourage to use that lane.
If they did have a open lane with no one else waiting, and the customer is being polite and reasonable, they should have simply sold them another hour even if they moved them to another lane/bay at the range.
I dont doubt that some sort of personality conflict arose, and maybe this is a case where “two heads started butting and no one was going to give a inch” sort of situation, instead of Nick simply asking, “Okay- how do I go about waiting for a new lane that my friends can join me on?”
Nick:
Are you exaggerating the recoil on your 1911? Mine doesn’t seem to kick like that unless I have shot my 1911-22 first. If I am not thinking about it my grip is too weak and I get a lot of rise.
Lets see:
You took a group of 15 newbies to a range without setting up something with the range… (try that at Cedar Ridge and let us know how it goes)
You did this on a CHL weekend? Why not during a pistol match? (you know they post schedules on their website right?) YOU could have avoided that problem.
Mud happens at every outdoor range. (as a side note, so does heat in the summer time)
Sounds like the problem was a poorly planned event.
I’ll bet you think scathing Yelp reviews will close down restaurants.
I just wanted to say I was down in Houston at a medical conference this week and took my oldest son with me. It is beautiful today so I played hookey and we went to the Hot Wells public shooting range on hwy 290 N. We had never been there before but my brother in law and nephews have and it it close to their house so we took our M44 and about 80 rounds of bulgarian milsurp and went.
There were a decent # of folks at the pistol range and 10-15 at the rifle range but there was no line and the empty range slots had clean targets already up so we did not have to wait to sart shooting. They only charge $10 per gun and that gets you a target.
They require eye and ear protection and have range officers to monitor and change targets for you, new targets are $1 apiece you just pay the RO and at the next cease fire they put up a new target. You can stay all day at your station or pay a buck to change to a different distance.
The guys behind the counter were super helpfull and freindly. I can’t say enough about how great an experience it was we felt safe the costs were cheap. Each station had its own spotters scope and if we had 10 people and 1 gun it was still only $10.
They had some ammo for sale but like everywhere the most popular was calibers were non existant. I just wanted to share a positve experience as there are good ranges with good people all over and if you have a bad experience let others know so they do not waste their time and money and if it’s good let us know so we can give our money to the people who work hard and deserve it.