When Only Police Have Guns . . .

 

They shoot each other. Pittsburgh’s wpxi.com tells the tale. “Allegheny County police Superintendent Charles Moffatt said the girlfriend told 911 dispatchers that her boyfriend had a gun and was distraught. She then locked herself in a bedroom and said that her boyfriend had calmed down. When the three Baldwin officers and a Whitehall officer arrived at the home, Miller went to the door and ordered the man to put his hands up. He [the man in the house] had a milk jug in one hand while his other hand was behind the door. Moffatt said the man tried to close the door and one of the Baldwin officers fired two shots, one striking Miller just below his bulletproof vest . . .

The other Baldwin officer then fired a shot that hit the house.

“The officer behind him fired his weapon twice. There was another officer farther away from the house. He hears the shots, sees the officer down, levels his weapon and fires once striking the outside of the house,” said Allegheny County police Supt. Charles Moffatt.

What’s the bet one or more of the cops was holding a (strangely unreported) AR-15?  The shot cop has a shattered pelvis, shattered hip and possible nerve damage. And what of the gentleman with the assault milk jug?

Police said the man inside of the home was not armed and had tossed his rifle out of a window into the yard. His name has not been released. Investigators said the man could face charges unrelated to the shooting.

Yeah, cause they got to charge him with something, right? Otherwise, the insurance won’t pay out. [h/t GMan]

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About Robert Farago

Robert Farago is the Publisher of The Truth About Guns (TTAG). He started the site to explore the ethics, morality, business, politics, culture, technology, practice, strategy, dangers and fun of guns.

77 Responses to When Only Police Have Guns . . .

  1. avatarRalph says:

    They can have my milk jug when they pry it from my cold refrigerator.

  2. avatarOddux says:

    Those assault milk jugs are dangerous. Threaded muzzle, thumb-hole style grip (which is just a pistol grip work around that needs addressed), high capacity… who NEEDS 1 gallon anyway?

    • avatarPulatso says:

      Don’t for get the the plastic construction that can slip past a metal detector.

    • avatarMark says:

      Needed help to realize they have those military features…

    • avatarCulpeper Kid says:

      It’s fully reloadable too, and you can see the amount you have left, plus, it has multiple levels of lethality, whole, 2%, part skim, skim, etc..

      Almost forgot, worst of all, kids are attracted to it.

  3. avatarIn Memphis says:

    “Yeah, cause they got to charge him withsomething, right?”

    I would say so. They were called to a “man with a gun” and he obviously did have one. Whether it was in the yard or not is irrelivant until they see otherwise. MWAG call and on arrival they cant see one hand when ordered to show them?

    • avatarMark N. says:

      Why did they have the right to prevent him from closing the door? His GF said he’d calmed down, and there was no suggestion that he had threatened her at all.

      • avatarIn Memphis says:

        Im not an LEO so I admit Im armchair quarterbacking this but I dont see them just walking away from a MWAG based soley on, “he calmed down.” At least not without a brief investigation.

        Does the girlfriend have a right to not press charges and just let it go? Absoloutley. But the story said he was trying to close them out, Im not sure but I dont think the suspect is the one who gets to say no.

        I’ve been to many domestic violence scenes in my career and it is not at all uncommon for things to “calm down” and no charges to be pressed. But I have never seen police back down until the victim (not the suspect) says they dont want to push it.

        Also while it may have been good for the man to get the gun out of the equation, throwing it outside in public? Was that before or after police arrived. If before, not very smart or safe.

        • avatarThomas Paine says:

          “Does the girlfriend have a right to not press charges and just let it go?”

          not in PA bro, this is a commonwealth.

    • avatarRalph says:

      on arrival they cant see one hand when ordered to show them?

      Says who? I wouldn’t believe those trigger-happy clowns if they told me that the sun rises in the East. They’re trying to cover their asses, just like the murderers on the Danziger Bridge.

      The truth is that they over-reacted and ended up shooting their own, and now they want to wriggle out of trouble with some cornball story.

      • avatarIn Memphis says:

        Im not defending the shooting at all. That was rediculous.

        ETA: Ralph, Im not defending the shooting at all. I dont think theres really a lot of information in this story for that. But who did she tell that he calmed down? If she was still in the bathroom, dont police have an obligation to talk to her? If hes shutting them out before then, sounds suspicious. But I admit, this is just speculation.

    • avatarRopingdown says:

      The WPXI story cited above was altered shortly after it appeared. The original referenced the second 911 call from the girlfriend, telling them that the boyfriend had unloaded and put down the gun. The significance of the second call is simply that the police no longer had reasonable suspicion that a crime was underway. They obviously don’t teach the proper use of the AR safety in the academies. To my mind it is the most ergonomic in the rifle world.

    • avatarRopingdown says:

      Except for the second call saying he’d unloaded the gun and put it down. Small detail. And what the cops should have said is, “tell your wife we would like to speak with her about the 911 calls she made.”

      • avatarIn Memphis says:

        “… called back to say her husband had unloaded the weapon and police were no longer needed.”

        I dont see how that changes much. Yes the shooting was rediculous but I am failing to see why the police should stop at her second phone call. It could have been under duress, at gun point. The only proper response (in my opinion) was for them to speak to HER in person and the husband was the one trying to shut them out.

        “And what the cops should have said is, “tell your wife we would like to speak with her about the 911 calls she made.”

        +1

    • avatarAsh says:

      So they engaged a person, in HIS home, with no weapon and that’s supposed to be justifiable? What’s irrelevant is whether or not they were called for a house fire, a house party, or a man with a weapon in his own domicile…you cannot fire rounds into a house because there is a possibility that he has a weapon, that’s beyond ridiculous.

    • avatarWA_2A says:

      Maybe they should charge him with owning a firearm. Seems everyday like they’re trying to make us out to be criminals for exercising a constitutional right.

  4. avatarDave S says:

    closing a door on Cops justifies use of deadly force?
    interesting!

  5. avatarbrcSVO says:

    I find it pretty disturbing is that one of the officers opened fire just because the guy tried to close the door.

    • avatarRalph says:

      Why so disturbing? In LA they shoot women just for driving a pickup truck. In New Orleans, they shoot people for walking (Danziger Bridge). In NYC, they shoot people for turning on a light (Ousmane Zongo). Or sometimes they stick a plunger handle up a guy’s coolie, just for giggles (Abner Louima). In Phoenix, the shoot the homeowner (Tony Arambula) and let the intruder go. In Arkansas, they prefer to shoot their victim to death (Joseph Hamley) when he’s laying on the ground.

      The cops are as much of a danger as the crooks.

      • avatarSammy says:

        I disagree, they are worse cause you have a harder time disarming them or getting them off the force, and they have badges. Crooks can’t take away your freedom. They can shoot you to death, but they can’t concoct a BS story and get you imprisoned. Think FOP unions have anything to do with the poor quality of law enforcement in this country?

      • avatarmatt says:

        The cops are as much of a danger as the crooks.

        They’re a greater danger than the crooks. You can shoot the crooks and generally not fear reprisal. Look at whats going on with Chris Dorner and when you shot a cop.

      • avatarBrooklyn in da house says:

        You forgot about the dogs.

  6. avatargreat unknown says:

    Never let it be said that the Baldwin cops couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn. I wonder how far away he was.

    • avatarMark N. says:

      The story is kind of confusing, but it sounds like the officer who shot Miller also shot the side of the house. So these guys could hit the broad side of a barn but not the barn door!

  7. avatarWiregrass says:

    What ever happened to #4 “Identify your target and what is beyond”. Or does this somehow not apply in this case?

  8. avatarAdam says:

    What about the idiot who shot the HOUSE?! Was the house acting suspiciously?

    • avatarRalph says:

      The house made a furtive movement.

      • avatarSammy says:

        They wouldn’t have plugged a doughnut shop.

        • avatarAdam says:

          Seriously, LEOs are becoming more and more of a societal embarrassment every day. Are these the morons that will be coming door to door for confiscation? If so, great! I’ll just answer the door in a police hat and a captain’s badge and tell them it’s all taken care of!

          ………………………And then video them as they shoot every dog in the neighborhood…….

        • avataruncommon_sense says:

          Adam,

          I wouldn’t answer the door wearing a police uniform … they are likely to shoot you accidentally like the basis for this article!

        • avatarRalph says:

          And then video them as they shoot every dog in the neighborhood

          They don’t shoot every dog — just the big scary ones. Like Schnausers.

    • avatarRopingdown says:

      The cop forgot that the house always wins.

  9. avatarSkyler says:

    I had an acquaintance that was formerly a cop along the Maryland/Pennsylvania border. He said that the different states and even agencies within Maryland regularly fought each other. Not sure how much of it involved gun play, but the picture he painted was like something from a banana republic. I’ve always wondered how accurate that picture was.

  10. avatarjoe says:

    That’s normaly the end when people doing a job are not profesional. And to the best of my knowledge as a europena citizen, beeing a policeman in US is not a life-long job, but rather depends on regional politics and labor demand. Its time I think to reconsider and stop blame people instead of poorly schedule system.
    Oh, a gun is just a tool I wish I could have in europe.

    • avatarLoïc says:

      Don’t really get that last sentence, I live in europe and I have a Gun.. (and I’m not a LEO)

      • avatarRopingdown says:

        The reality of guns in Europe is always misrepresented in the US. Obama holds it up as a model. The NRA holds it up as a fate to be avoided. They both overdo it.

  11. avatarWobo says:

    Here’s the link to a local paper that explains things in greater detail and gives some more facts regarding the incident. http://baldwin-whitehall.patch.com/articles/baldwin-police-officer-shot-wounded-while-responding-to-call#photo-4914381

  12. avatarPulatso says:

    Apparently someone is auditioning for a new series of Reno 911.

  13. avatarSammy says:

    This may be as serious an issue of the home owner possessing a jug (possibly a semi-automatic jug) of raw milk and got what he deserved. The house, too. If you (the house) open your doors to rebels wielding containers of a possibly dangerous liquid, your going to wind up with holes in your siding. Now comes the delicate and intricate police work to place the blame squarely on the home owner. Like my attorney said, if you want things to get worse, call the cops. Who is training these “Peace Officers”?

  14. avatarChris says:

    Disappointing to see the improper use of “assault jugs”

  15. avatarRalph says:

    The police made a natural, excusable mistake. They thought that the homeowner was Christopher Dorner. Or maybe that the house was Christopher Dorner. Or maybe each other was Christopher Dorner. That seems to be the excuse du jour.

    • avatarTotenglocke says:

      Perfect time for some cops to do some political assassinations – then say “Damn, you mean that was a politician and not Christopher Dorner? I guess that’s another two week paid vacation then….”

      • avatarAnon in CT says:

        L L Cool J better watch himself.

        I like L L and all, but he looks like Dorner would if Dorner went on Weight Watchers for a few months.

    • avatarMark N. says:

      So tell us Ralph, you used to do criminal law, right? Can police (a) order a homeowner to “step outside,” (b) order a homeowner or resident to disarm if the resident is not presenting a threat of harm to anyone, (c) force entry if entry is refused?

  16. avatarCrunkleross says:

    Got Milk? Start Blastin

  17. avatarstateisevil says:

    In the cops defense, maybe it was raw milk. The government and large dairy producers are terrified of unprocessed pus free milk.

  18. avatarUSMCVeteran says:

    This appears to be yet another case of “shoot first and lie later”. If the actions by these cops is what we have to look forward to when the SHTF they will quickly become an endangered feces.

  19. avatarMcBane says:

    There was an incident in the city of Pittsburgh a month or so back where a female called the 911 for a domestic incident. The police arrived, but the male wouldn’t open the door for them, so they left. It turns out, he had killed her. Now there is an investigation as to why the officers left the scent. I’m not privy to all of the details, and I’m going off memory, but I’m assuming that’s why the Baldwin police wouldn’t leave the residence (Baldwin is a suburb outside of Pittsburgh). Also, I’m not sure of the details on this shooting, but I remember having read the article thinking “WTF were the police doing shooting in that instance?”.

    • avatarRalph says:

      Two of Milwaukees “finest” brought an escaped victim back to Jeffrey Dahmer’s apartment. Dahmer then had the kid for dinner. The officers were fired — and then reinstated.

  20. avatarNick says:

    There has to be some justifiable way for the average Joe to defend himself against a gun-ho cop. Granted the cost of legal fallout would have you working a little past retirement.

  21. avatarR Hampton says:

    It seems to me that all of these incidents involving police officers undermines the argument for armed officers/teachers in schools.

  22. avatarLance says:

    Yeah if you need backup as an officer let the keystone LAPD and NYPD or here WPD come and kill you for the bad guy. How about banning dumb cops.

    • avatarneo297 says:

      If any citizen were to discharge their weapon in a manner that wounded another individual, even if that individual was supportive of the shooter after the fact, would they get a warm cup of tea and some counseling or get their asses arrested? How do you justify firing blindly into a house with small children? Duh I didn’t know whoelse was in the house or where they were located when I discharged my weapon but look I have a shiny badge. These idiots should be fired and charges should be filed on them.

  23. avatarMichael C says:

    Needs clarification that Miller is one of the Baldwin officers. The news story linked to at the beginning clearly states that Miller is a Baldwin sergeant, but on here it is unclear.

  24. avatarBob says:

    Unfortunately, you can’t fix stupid.

  25. avatarpat says:

    And to think that some cops want to, and actually work toward, taking away our semiautomatic rifles and REGULAR magazines. These are traitorous, filthy pigs who are limiting your protection and freedom because they are either stupid or evil and want power over you, the citizen.

  26. avatarJLR says:

    “Yeah, cause they got to charge him with something, right? Otherwise, the insurance won’t pay out.”

    Is that true?

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