Question of the Day: What Happens When Someone Gets Killed?

If California’s civilian disarmament laws are enacted, violence will ensue. I’m not speaking here of armed resistance—although that’s a distinct possibility. I’m talking about the fact that all laws depend on the threat of violence. In other words, do this or you go to jail. We will make you go to jail. In other words, Golden State cops aren’t going to seize newly illegal firearms by offering their owners flowers and chocolate. They’ll do it with a modern sporting rifle in their hands and a militarized force behind them. If I was a betting man, I’d put my money on some kind of violent “incident” before then. Some kind of a disastrous, perhaps intentional miscommunication between the public, anti-gun groups, the police and/or armed protestors. Check out this little gem from katu.com ahead of today’s confluence of pro and anti-gunners in Portland . . .

And while Freeman and Rinkin [in the video at the top of the post] expect lawmakers on hand as they demonstrate firearms safety and weapons handling, some people want to know if the rally will create a situation similar to last month in Southeast Portland. On that day two men walked the streets of Sellwood with their semiautomatic rifles in hand to demonstrate their Second Amendment rights. It led to 911 calls and a day care center lockdown.

“It’s hard to have a dialogue with someone who’s holding a gun,” said Jenn Lynch, whose group, Million Moms for Gun Control, is holding its own rally this Saturday.

“Standing out publicly for your support for gun control is a scary thing when you know people who are pro-Second Amendment tend to be armed. It’s just a scary leap to make,” she said.

As the Brits say, it’s the bus you don’t see that kills you. As far as I’m concerned, the question is not when. It’s what then?

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About Robert Farago

Robert Farago is the Publisher of The Truth About Guns (TTAG). He started the site to explore the ethics, morality, business, politics, culture, technology, practice, strategy, dangers and fun of guns.

97 Responses to Question of the Day: What Happens When Someone Gets Killed?

  1. avatarMichael B. says:

    What Happens When Someone Gets Killed?

    Martial law.

  2. “Radical pro-gun terrorists have murdered innocent city officials in an attempt to force the government of California to overturn their latest firearms safety measures. Speaking from the capitol, the Governor said that acts of terrorism will not be tolerated. Police are currently searching for other members of the terrorist cell, who use websites such as AR15.com and TTAG to communicate and organize their attacks. The Department of Justice has said they are looking into taking those websites down in order to stop the terrorist threat.”

    • avatarDaniel Silverman says:

      Agreed Nick, then we have to take the website underground, setup an encrypted IRC channel for organizing operation… Dude to much work!!!!

      We know right now New York already has the disarmament laws in place. I have a feeling barring a hold on the law things might happen there first. Of course if there was a huge shoot out between citizens and police and such people would get upset. It would not bode well for the politicians.

    • avatarPatrick says:

      Sadly, this is realistic “journalism”. More sadly, people fall for this stuff.
      There is a disturbing, false sense of relationship and trust between presenters of “fact” on TV and their audience. People are designed to have an audience of a small group of people, at most, and the communication goes both ways. Now people develop a personal connection with faces and voices on TV, without really knowing who they are or what they do (except the numerous relationships, who does something embarrassing in public, etc). We’re conditioned to have feelings and trust in these people who tell us what the state wants us to believe. With enough of them repeating something frequently enough, most people will believe most anything.

      Naturally, they still ridicule the Internet for being so questionable. If you read something on the Internet, there’s a good chance it’s not true. If you hear something on TV, you know for a fact it’s a bunch of statist propaganda. (I realize there are a few sparse exceptions.)

      I certainly hope people don’t buy the next-door terrorist lies. Most importantly, I hope the police and military employees don’t buy the next-door terrorist lies.

      • avatarAlphaGeek says:

        Finding ways to establish and maintain contacts in your local PD and/or Sheriff’s department is good insurance against future incidents.

        I figure they’re going to know sooner or later that I’m a gun owner, so I might as well be up front about it and establish that I’m a good guy with a gun. I don’t see any downside, and it might cause them to think twice if things get weird.

        • avatarMichael B. says:

          http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/647492.Ordinary_Men

          Your trust in the police is misplaced and naive.

          Their leaders will trot out the “we’re not gonna take your guns, you’re the good guys!” B.S. and remind them that if they quit now they won’t be able to enjoy their pensions.

          You’ll have a bunch of law-and-order morons saying things like: “Well it’s the law and the law is the law and therefore it’s the law and you should follow the law.”

          Most gunnies will either turn them in or hide them.

          You won’t be able to do the latter because they know who you are and they’ll send cops that you don’t know or who don’t like you to get them.

  3. avatarPulatso says:

    It also hard to have a dialogue with a hysterical person.

    • avatarSoccerchainsaw says:

      “It’s hard to have a dialogue with someone who’s holding a gun,” said Jenn Lynch, whose group, Million Moms for Gun Control, is holding its own rally this Saturday.

      It’s also hard to have a dialogue with someone that won’t let you speak, that tells you to shut up, that your opinion is worthless, that you need to do what they say without question.

  4. avataranonymous says:

    > As the Brits say, it’s the bus you don’t see that kills you.

    The reason the Brits don’t see those buses is because they look the wrong way before crossing the street.

  5. avatarbrian says:

    These “million moms” groups are the ultimate Rabbit People.

    “It’s hard to have a dialogue with someone who’s holding a gun,”

    Really? Actually that’s all you CAN have. You certainly can’t force them to do anything at that point.

    The gun is civilization.

  6. avatarJoseph says:

    Ya, when?
    This Jenn Lynch person really needs to get out from under her rock and experience a bit of the world. Reality isn’t like what you see on TV, movies, video games, on the internet, and hear about on the radio. The media either has an opinion or agenda which they are pushing, most have lost the ability to be objective or where never tough that in school. Besides, if her experiences with people have been nothing but violent when it comes to weapons then she need to seek help for she’s in the wrong place around the wrong people. Her energy, money, and time would be better spent on trying to reduce Violent crime, ya guns fall into that category however gun happen to be one of the Smaller parts of Violent crimes. Once again if falls back into a lack of education, weather it is personally driven or school driven she has had a poor one, or looks that way.
    It’s the people who commit Violent Crime not the tools. I haven’t seen a proposed ban on shovels, bats, knives, or even Lamps of all things. I haven’t seen a proposed ban on cars, trucks, or boats and they kill far more people each year from accidents and from accentual crimes. She needs to steep down off her high horse and join the rest of us normal mortals in the country……

  7. avatarNick says:

    That’s weird, I had a very pleasant conversation with a gentleman who was OC’ing at the grocery store.

  8. avatarJohn Rand says:

    We will make you go to jail.

    This is basically it. The people have forgotten what their votes actually mean. In fact, they don’t even know why they have a country. I’m not sure what their foundations are based off. Every single US citizen owns a gun. They may wield it by proxy through a vote, but they’re pointing a gun at people on a daily basis.

    Part of the other issue is, she seems to not understand that it’s surprisingly easy to kill people. Many of these people think that, “Well, he’s doesn’t have a gun anymore, I’m clearly safe.” When in fact the average male could beat her dead quite easily before anyone did anything, not to mention having a pointy stick would make it almost instantaneous. It’s as if holding a gun reminds them of something they’ve tried to hide from for the past 40 years; that life is fragile, discussions should be civil and humans should be respected.

  9. avatarStacy says:

    Realistically, the public will turn a blind eye to a certain number of Ruby Ridge-type incidents, especially since the media will be sure to paint all such incidents as involving sister-humping militia hillbillies.

    The real potential for SHTF involves a scenario like this: New York authorities have shot down some dozens of citizens in the streets for refusing the give up their ARs. Refugees have made it to Virginia, where the state government is under public pressure to shelter them, even/especially since it involves putting a stick in the eye of the Federal Government. Double-plus ungood for those of us who want a peaceful (but free) place to raise our families. Let’s hope this is all idle speculation in the end.

    • avatarPhydeaux says:

      Sure the *public* will turn a blind eye – but then, they’re the sheep and never would have done anything anyway. It’s the sheepdogs and their ilk who will be motivated by deaths resulting from forced civilian disarmament that will be motivated to act.

      • avatarStacy says:

        The group of ‘sheepdogs’ would have to include multiple state governments, a substantial part of the military, and foreign allies. If it were just a cohort of likeminded civilians, even thousands, the government could easily kill them all and it would go down in the history books as the great militia scare of 20__, uncritically accepted as such by the entire population of ‘sheep’. Don’t kid yourself. V is just a comic book.

  10. avatarNB says:

    It’s a cliche, but it’s true: If gun owners were half as violent as civilian disarmament proponents think we are, why are there any of them left?

  11. avatarSGC says:

    Wonder if they already have the drone coordinates for my house laid in somewhere…?

  12. avatarRalph says:

    First of all, “Million Moms for Gun Control” is misnamed. It should be called “About 50 Skanks and One Cute Opportunist for Citizen Disarmament.” Second of all, if there’s bloodshed, then it will be like the Waco-Ruby Ridge-Murrah Building trilogy all over again. Dead feds, dead kids, and a rethink about what the G should and should not be doing to Americans.

    I hated Timothy McVeigh — he was as vicious a baby killer as Lon Horiuchi and the rest of the feds — but I don’t think it’s coincidental that there hasn’t been another Waco or Ruby Ridge since the bombing.

  13. avatarMEW says:

    whoever said it pretty much on the mark. “He who turns his swords into plowshares will plow for those who don’t” or “He who has the guns has the gold”
    Wake up people, free men are not free without arms……………….

  14. avatarliberty2Alpha says:

    “It’s hard to have a dialogue with someone who’s holding a gun,”

    She must have fits when stopped by an officer.

    She should get that checked out.

  15. avatarOrion says:

    OK, I’ll be the one to say it.

    You CANNOT be pro 2A…it’s an inalienable right, it exists for every man woman and child. You cannot be for it or against it, because it just “IS”.

    That’s what a lot of these Pro-Gun control folks need to realize. It’s like being against the fact that you have the ability to breath when your born.

    You can be for concealed carry, or open carry etc…but the 2A just isn’t up for debate, one way or the other.

    Hope you all get what I am trying to say here.

  16. avatarAccur81 says:

    I wonder if TX Rangers accept lateral transfers.

    • avatarMolon Labe says:

      Check it out, they might. From your post here I think you would be a good fit. My wife and I are actually talking about moving to the free state of TX. CO seems to be going down the path as CA.

      • avatarMamba says:

        Sadly so.
        My wife (a registered Democrat, now enlightened & a new NRA member) just got a call from the CO Democratic Party. Apparently they are calling their voter reg-list and pushing for support on their gun-control agenda.
        http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/06/colorado-democrats-look-to-make-gun-manufacturers-liable-for-damage-done-by-assault-style-weapons/
        She politely declined and told them why.
        I’ll be sending more $ to RMGO this weekend. We can’t afford it but I would rather eat mac & beans at home for awhile than in jail for years.

        • avatarSoccerchainsaw says:

          We need more pro-gun democrats to call their representatives and tell them if they push this anti-2A agenda, party affiliations will change.

          Remember this, if you’re unhappy with your party’s efforts you have lots of choices besides the major two. I am registered in NC as “independent” and as such can vote in primaries as well as the general elections. I can’t vote in both primaries, I have to choose one. But I can help decide who the major party candidates will be. And of course there are multiple 3rd parties out there. If more people would vote their conscience instead of just someone that might have a chance at winning we might get some better candidates out of all the parties.

  17. avatarRoss says:

    If CA passes these laws there will be people that loose their lives, this isn’t Australia, some American gun owners will not go quite, and to be quite frank, can’t say I blame them.

  18. avatarLiberty2Alpha says:

    If anyone hasn’t already, I highly recommend Matthew Brackens “Enemies, Foreign and Domestic.”

    We’re on about chapter 5 or 6 these days.

  19. avatarBilly Wardlaw says:

    “It’s hard to have a dialogue with someone who’s holding a gun,”

    There is no need for dialogue once the take the gun away from you.

    • avatarSoccerchainsaw says:

      There is no need for dialogue once they take the gun away from you.

      Fixed it. Otherwise, well said!

  20. avatarTheSleeperHasAwakened says:

    “I’m talking about the fact that all laws depend on the threat of violence.”

    Looks like someone is coming around to a more Libertarian / Anarcho-Capitalist mind set :-)

  21. avatarMy Name Is Bob says:

    I personally wouldn’t give up my guns until I gave up my ammo- if you catch my drift.

  22. avataruncommon_sense says:

    I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest a simple standard of conduct for open carry advocates who carry in public — especially at demonstrations.

    Openly carry guns all you want in the following manner:
    (1) handguns — in a holster on your hip, shoulder, ankle, thigh, etc.
    (2) long guns — slung over your shoulder/neck and on your back

    Please do NOT carry guns in public in your hand/s unless you are actively resisting an attack. If you carry a gun in hand, you will almost always point it at someone at some point which violates at least one of the basic gun safety rules … and it is technically an assault.

    When I see someone strolling down the sidewalk with a handgun in a holster or a long gun slug over their shoulder on a sling, I don’t give it a second thought. And that act is neither dangerous nor criminal.

    Let the flames begin.

    • avatarTheSleeperHasAwakened says:

      As far as I know, NO ONE in public is carry around a gun in their hands because that would legally be considered possessing a gun in a threatening manner.

      All the folks that these Anti-Gunners are talking about are law abiding citizens with pistols holstered and/or rifles or shotguns slung over their shoulder.

      • avataruncommon_sense says:

        According to the article:
        “On that day two men walked the streets of Sellwood with their semiautomatic rifles in hand [bold added] to demonstrate their Second Amendment rights. It led to 911 calls and a day care center lockdown.”

        Hence my comment above.

        • avatarTheSleeperHasAwakened says:

          Aye, I just don’t believe that account to be accurate, it’s probably embellished to make it seem as if gun owners all over are walking around armed threatening people when in fact they are just walking around armed, which the anti-gunners find threatening.

  23. avatarRoscoe says:

    Y’all are speaking to the choir.

    The time spent hammering away on TTAG and other 2A friendly sites provides a lot of good feedback, pro 2A rights arguments, and ideas. But that’s not enough.

    We will ALL be best served if SOME of that time is diverted to rallying behind pro gun rights representatives and politely protesting directly to gun grabbing politicians via direct communication. E-mail them, call them, snail mail them; but get it out there. The ground swell must be plainly evident to overcome the liberal feeding frenzy.

    Politicians hate jeopardizing votes and the threat of losing support will usually dampen their restrictive ways. It happened even here in Kalifornia when an attempt late last year to ban modern carbines (so called Assault Weapons) failed to garner enough votes to leave committee for a legislative vote.

    A good place to start:
    http://nraila.org/get-involved-locally/grassroots/write-your-reps.aspx

  24. avatarhmmmmmmmm says:

    “I’m not speaking here of armed resistance—although that’s a distinct possibility”

    Oh man you are KILLING ME today with these repeated wet dreams about gun owners actually backing up their big talk with armed action against “the man”.

    It’s time to face it – old fat white guys aren’t going to do a damn thing when the ATF comes to collect their arms. It’s simple psychology apart from anything else – if you don’t have the balls to even leave your house without a gun (or go to yoga class for that matter) then you are going to do exactly nothing when the real authority turns up. Just how long do you think you will last against SWAT anyway?

    • avatarLiberty2Alpha says:

      One OFBG is giving LAPD fits… in case you missed it.

      • avatarRoscoe says:

        LAPD trained him and in this case because of how they handled his “disciplinary” case, the LAPD is having to “reap what it sow(ed)”.

        It is trully unfortunate that innocents (cops and civilians) are being hurt and killed in the process of this ex-LAPD officer’s goal of recaliming “his name”.

      • avatarhmmmmmmmm says:

        But he had nothing to lose – when the plod turn up at Casa Farago do you really think he’s going to look at all his cool stuff and say “f*** it”, then go all Butch Cassidy on them? Of course not. We’re more likely to see an intelligent comment out of Ralph than that ever happening!

        • avatarLiberty2Alpha says:

          All of the replies I’ve seen Ralph leave are very intelligent.

          Yours on the other hand…

        • avatarhmmmmmmmm says:

          That’s called “Confirmation Bias”.

          An easy mistake to make though, liberty, it happens to the best of us sometimes.

        • avatarRalph says:

          You’ll have to excuse humjob. He’s off his meds again and is obviously fixated on yours truly.

        • avatarhmmmmmmmm says:

          I don’t think needing to use an example of a blowhard and coming up with your name implies fixation ralph – I just needed the name of somebody here who’s mouth outpaces his brain and yours was first on the list.

          It’s like if you ask me who the president is and I say “Obama” – I’m not fixated on him, he just is.

        • avatarCarrymagnum says:

          Wit implies intelligence.

        • avatarGS650G says:

          Hmmmmmm clearly hasn’t met some of the people outside the norm.

      • avatarMolon Labe says:

        Imagine just 3 or 4 million who are willing to stand. The left must be the ones who are in fear. Homeland Security just ordered more ammo.

        • avatarhmmmmmmmm says:

          3 or 4 million willing to stand is a civil war.

          3 or 4 willing to stand (what will actually happen) is a few lone nutjobs who will be ground to dust by the military industrial complex.

        • avatarR7 Rocket says:

          hmmmmmm says:

          3 or 4 willing to stand (what will actually happen) is a few lone nutjobs who will be ground to dust by the military industrial complex.

          Yes because the Taliban is being ground to dust by the military industrial complex…
          Oh wait.
          $16Trillion debt, $100Trillion+ in unfunded liabilities
          vs one third of the planet’s gunmen.

      • avatarIng says:

        That was pretty funny. (Of course it was funny; it’s The Onion.)

        But I’m pretty sure old Earl in Norfolk isn’t the only guy keeping the fascist new world order black helicopter brigades at bay. I’m doing my part too — I can’t even count the number of chili cans I’ve assassinated with my own personal firearms over the past year. Yep, that’s right, I said *assassinated.* (Better go now…I can hear the helicopters hovering; they must have triangulated my IP.)

    • avatarMichael B. says:

      hmmmmmmmm says: You’re all a bunch of cowards. And if you do resist, you’re all a bunch of terrorists who had it coming!

      • avatarhmmmmmmmm says:

        I am not saying that atall. What I am saying is that real men don’t feel the need to beat their chests and proclaim to the world what badasses they are, and what they will do when the man comes – they just do it.

        I know you guys hate it when I pierce your little bubble and shine some light in, but the fact is all your mall ninja BS is just that – BS. You aren’t going to do a damn thing when the man comes and takes your guns, so why do you say you will?

        • avatarMolon Labe says:

          The only bubble to be busted is yours. A lot of combat vets out there. And you don’t have the military.

          Molon labe

        • avatarBill in IL says:

          And what, exactly, would you know about being a man?

        • avatarBill in IL says:

          What are you psychic? You get on this site with your anti – freedom, collectivist BS and spew nonsense. You have NO idea what ANYONE will do in a given circumstance. We do not want any violence, the last thing any of us want to do is have to shoot someone. That is why we are organizing and contacting our servants in government to politely tell them to stop the insanity now, before it gets ugly.

        • avatarCarrymagnum says:

          I think I can count the individuals here on one hand who have openly said that they would become violent should his scenario happen. “Shine light in”??? You are ignorant as they come and full of yourself to boot. In the off chance that it does hit the fan, you sir, will be shocked at how many stand up for their rights.

        • avatarRandy Drescher says:

          Yes, the military is going to waste us all. Good one! Randy

        • avatarGS650G says:

          Funny how HMMMMM the troll seems to know exactly what’s going to happen in the future. He’s clearly taken the position that we don’t have a position. A lot of incredible things have happened in the past few years, just look at Egypt and Libya. A bunch of people got fed up with the bullshit and made a few changes. We may not like the results, but it’s definitely different now. Syria is next.

        • avatarDaniel Silverman says:

          Well I will chime in here, just for silly.

          I am working hard, have a full time job, write for this blog, do a radio show, and run the California State chapter of the GRAA.
          I don’t beat my chest, yeah I am 41 years old and I have the middle age spread going on. So why am I working with so many organizations, trying to organize the individual citizens, educate, invigorate?
          Because this is an important issue. Possibly one of the most important issues of our time.
          I know you are simply laughing at the idea of people standing up to Tyranny. Gosh we would just hand it over and feel sheepish wouldn’t we.
          I don’t think that will be the case. Say what you may, laugh make fun. I don’t think people will cave. That is just my opinion.

    • avatarR7 Rocket says:

      What makes you think it’s “old fat white guys”? The guy who set up wiki weapon isn’t an “old fat white guy”.

  25. avatarBrian S says:

    “I am not saying that atall. What I am saying is that real men don’t feel the need to beat their chests and proclaim to the world what badasses they are, and what they will do when the man comes – they just do it.”

    …and spending your time throwing insults from behind a monitor, trying to rile people up for a cheap thrill and inflated sense of self worth makes you what exactly? I suspect you’ll be one of the one’s “just following orders” when push comes to shove.

  26. avatarCliff says:

    “An armed society is a polite society.” – Robert A. Heinlein

  27. avatarjimbthepilot says:

    ‘Oh man you are KILLING ME today with these repeated wet dreams about gun owners actually backing up their big talk with armed action against “the man”.’

    Ad hominem attack – attacking the man instead of the message. Nothing intelligent, rational, or logical here.

    “It’s time to face it – old fat white guys aren’t going to do a damn thing when the ATF comes to collect their arms.”
    Argumentum ad ignorantiam – assuming something is true simply because it hasn’t been proven false. Again, nothing intelligent, rational or logical here.

    “It’s simple psychology apart from anything else – if you don’t have the balls to even leave your house without a gun (or go to yoga class for that matter) then you are going to do exactly nothing when the real authority turns up.”
    Combination of ad hominem, red herring, and confusing correlation with causation, though the correlation here is iffy at best. Again…

    “Just how long do you think you will last against SWAT anyway?”
    Red Herring – for those of us intent on keeping our oath, it’s not about how long I last. It’s about defending individual liberty. However, I am working, feverishly, to ensure my family, my friends, and I last as long as possible.
    Again, nothing intelligent, rational or logical in your statement.

    The reference to “The Onion” article – Straw Man argument. Look it up.
    Again, …

    Liberty2Alpha’s statement was opinion. So was yours. We all tend to work with confirmatory biases. Some work to overcome them. Some don’t.

    Alinsky’s Rules just ain’t working so well on freezing and ridiculing unalienable human rights granted by our Creator.

  28. avatarScott says:

    I thought this post was a different topic, one I haven’t seen anyone talk about…

    What happens when some Mother and her kids get killed because she ran out of shots trying to defend her home and kids against a group of thugs because she was limited to X number of rounds. How are the politicians and anti-gun people going to spin that? There will be no mercy for them in my eyes, and the blood will be on the hands of all who seek to remove our 2A rights. It will happen, mark my words, and then what? I hope you’ll all be proud of yourselves then.

    • avatarLiberty2Alpha says:

      I agree it will happen…

      But will it be reported?

    • avatarGS650G says:

      They won’t give a shit about the situation, they will call for more police and less guns “on the street”

    • avatarpat says:

      Yup. In NY, pop pop pop….your mags almost half gone and you only have four rounds left.
      Stupid libtards.

    • avatarSoccerchainsaw says:

      I think if we think about it we know how it will be covered. The victim will called out as an irresponsible mother that had guns in a house with children. That she deluded herself into thinking she could effectively use them. That this is further evidence that guns have no place in modern society. That she should have called 911 and done what her assailants asked. That’s how they will spin it and they definitely will not assume any responsibility for the incident.

  29. avatarJoseph says:

    Accur81: The Texas Rangers do not accept lateral transfers. All their personnel come from the Department of Public Safety (DPS), of which they are a branch.

    Years ago they would take people from another agency. An example is Ramiro (Ray) Martinez, the Austin, Texas police officer who shot and killed Charles Whitman, the UT Tower sniper in 1966. They actually asked him to be a Ranger.
    Those days are over, but a friend of mine from our PD joined DPS and actually made it into the Rangers. Maybe you could contact the Texas Department of Public Safety and get the ball rolling…it takes a while. Whatever you do, you need to un-ass Cali for ni a.

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