Daily Digest: Hell No

 Kent State (courtesy laprogressive.com)

I remember the late-60′s. America was split in two: pro-war vs. anti-war. Short hair vs. long hair. Domestic cars vs. foreign. Pablum pop vs. protest music. Highballs vs. getting high. Republicans vs. Democrats. As Ralph recently reminded me, you can sum up the tension between these two camps in two words: Kent State. Or one image (above). The gun control rolling downhill in New Englands’ Democratic strongholds is headed in the same direction: violence against a protesting populace. Except this time the populace is bunkered and armed. Sad to say, I can foresee a dozen Ruby Ridges led by ATF (the National Guard won’t play this time). And then . . . a return to Constitutional sanity via the ballot box. Worst case? Best case? In any case, here’s the news . . .

The new generations of [Swiss] citizen soldiers have demonstrated that the respect their forefathers had for the military gun no longer exists. As a result, new preventive measures had to be taken: while military guns are still stored at home, the ammunition is now stored at the arsenal. Nowadays, the assault weapon must be disassembled and stored in two separate closets. This way, if anyone steals the gun, they will be left with a useless piece of steel instead of an agent of death.

This Is How They Hijacked My Country huffingtonpost.com

A new anti-gun metric animated here for maximum impact. Click here for the top 15 causes of death for 2010.

Full speed ahead Mr. Boatswain, full speed ahead. Rep. Gwen Moore: Will Right to Bear Arms Lead to People Owning Submarines? newsbusters.org

If “weapons of war don’t belong in our schools” does that mean cops can’t use AR-15s against active shooters?

FYI: civilian disarmament is alive and well at the state level. Assault Weapons Ban Likely To Die So That Broader Gun Policy Legislation Can Live huffingtonpost.com

JOHN F. KENNEDY

I don’t think “packing heat” means what they think it means. 13 Photos of Presidents Packing Heat motherjones.com

Screen Shot 2013-02-04 at 8.58.03 PM

That’s MISTER gun nut. Hundreds of Confused Anti-Gun People Think I’m a Gun Nut—And That This Is My Gun kotaku.com

Not so quietly, now. The World’s Hottest Hedge Fund, Tiger Global, Has Quietly Sold Its Gun Stock forbes.com

Quietly now. “Georgia State Senator Bill Heath has introduced Senate Bill 93, a bill which would allow hunting with suppressors in Georgia.” aacblog.com

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About Robert Farago

Robert Farago is the Publisher of The Truth About Guns (TTAG). He started the site to explore the ethics, morality, business, politics, culture, technology, practice, strategy, dangers and fun of guns.

81 Responses to Daily Digest: Hell No

  1. avatarDave S says:

    Kent State shows what happens when a crowd pushes folks with rifles into a corner. (they were pushed downhill against a fence) Thats why we should always leave bad guys an escape route. It also illustrates the concept of no place to retreat to in home defense doctrine.

    I have always wondered what would have happened if the Guard troops had had the discipline to fix bayonets and hold the line instead of firing.

    • avatarmatt says:

      lol wut? The crowd did no such thing, in fact the National Guard spent the entire time advancing on the crowd! They were are at no time cornered.

      When it was determined the crowd was not going to disperse, a group of 77 National Guard troops from A Company and Troop G, with bayonets fixed on their M1 Garand rifles, began to advance upon the hundreds of protesters. As the guardsmen advanced, the protesters retreated up and over Blanket Hill, heading out of The Commons area. Once over the hill, the students, in a loose group, moved northeast along the front of Taylor Hall, with some continuing toward a parking lot in front of Prentice Hall (slightly northeast of and perpendicular to Taylor Hall). The guardsmen pursued the protesters over the hill, but rather than veering left as the protesters had, they continued straight, heading down toward an athletic practice field enclosed by a chain link fence. Here they remained for about ten minutes, unsure of how to get out of the area short of retracing their path. During this time, the bulk of the students congregated off to the left and front of the guardsmen, approximately 150 ft (50m) to 225 ft (75m) away, on the veranda of Taylor Hall. Others were scattered between Taylor Hall and the Prentice Hall parking lot, while still others (perhaps 35 or 40) were standing in the parking lot, or dispersing through the lot as they had been previously ordered.
      While on the practice field, the guardsmen generally faced the parking lot which was about 100 yards away. At one point, some of the guardsmen knelt and aimed their weapons toward the parking lot, then stood up again. For a few moments, several guardsmen formed a loose huddle and appeared to be talking to one another. The guardsmen seemed to be unsure about what to do next. They had cleared the protesters from the Commons area, and many students had left, but some stayed and were still angrily confronting the soldiers, some throwing rocks and tear gas canisters. About ten minutes later, the guardsmen began to retrace their steps back up the hill toward the Commons area. Some of the students on the Taylor Hall veranda began to move slowly toward the soldiers as the latter passed over the top of the hill and headed back down into the Commons.
      At 12:24 pm,[1] according to eyewitnesses, a Sgt. Myron Pryor turned and began firing at the students with his .45 pistol…

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings#Eyewitness_accounts

  2. avatarNelson says:

    As with most things govt-touted, they’re usually almost always provocateured or agitated: meet the FBI COINTELPRO rat and agent provocateur who got Kent State incident rolling, one Terry Norman.

    http://www.facebook.com/KentStateTruthTribunal/posts/281531968544147
    http://mendocoastcurrent.wordpress.com/2010/12/20/does-terry-norman-hold-the-key-to-kent-state/
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/09/27/uncovering-the-kent-state-cover-up/
    http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/05/activists_press_government_for.html
    http://www.cleveland.com/science/index.ssf/2010/10/revelations_from_kent_state_au.html

    Nope, Kent State couldn’t happen again… well except there that Waco and… Ruby Ridge… and…

  3. avatarGreat Lenin's Ghost says:

    Kent State would not have happened if the protesters had been armed, like the brave men and women of the Black Panthers and the Weather Underground :)

    • avatarHerb says:

      Did you know that Lenin’s Tomb is a commie plot?

      ;^)

    • avatarpat says:

      More anti-American libtards would have died.

      • avatarRebecca says:

        Dude. Calling names does *not* advance your cause nor curry you favor.

        Until this fiasco I considered myself somewhat liberal, and I knew some liberals. They’re no more anti-American than you are. They just see a country where more people are included in “We The People”.

        You and they have different viewpoints, but you both want the country better. You just differ on what “better” means and how to get there.

        • avatarDr. Kenneth Noisewater says:

          The good ones are “useful idiots”, who enable the bad ones to promulgate their statist, freedom-hating ideologies. The same way that “good muslims” turning a blind eye or offering hospitality to the nutbag “bad muslims” means that both are part and parcel of the same problem.

          We need more “good liberals” to stand up vocally against gun control and statist power grabbery in general.

        • avatarpat says:

          I am answering Commie Ghost Creep above. This whole fiasco IS libtard only. Did you vote libtard? Let this be your lesson.

    • avatarThomasR says:

      So GLG, you said your’re a proud communist, why do you feel that?

      Every attempt to live a communist ideal has ended in complete and utter failure. From the Pilgrims in this country that tryed to live the communist ideal that ended up in famine until they gave individual people thier own property to farm and profit from thier own efforts; afterward they had abundant food. The Oneida colony here in the eighteen hundreds ended in failure, the communes in Isreal, a failure; the failed nightmare of mass deaths and starvation in Stalinist Russia, Moaist China and Cambodia; every where it’s been tryed has led to failure, mass death and/or a totalitarian police state.

      The Weather Underground planned to murder up to 25 million Americans that they figured would not be re-educated after thier revolution.

      So I really mean this question, why are you a proud communist?

  4. avatarRon Mexico says:

    We need a “So God made a Farmer” type internet video. Use the pics from the ‘gun owner’ series…get a well-known narrator (maybe Tom Selleck)… and someone to write some damn good copy (Robert are you up for the job). One minute would suffice.

  5. avatarWilliam says:

    I remember it so well. Shock, “how can you run when you know?”

    Who is that with JFK? Is that that blackguard Lemnitzer?

    • avatarMamba says:

      Chester V. Clifton Jr., major general and senior military aide to Presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson.

  6. avatarRalph says:

    Kent State was the last time that the National Guard — made up of neighbors and friends — was used to murder the people and trample the Constitution it is sworn to protect. If the Guard has a memory or a conscience or honor, as I think it does, it will never again allow itself to be used as a tool of government oppression against the people. Never again.

    If I’m wrong, then the country be damned.

    • avatarAlphaGeek says:

      From what I understand, Kent State was the turning point for US policy on deploying armed National Guard troops as a regular practice within the US. I’m not talking about armed MPs and Guard soldiers being used for site protection, I’m talking about civil disturbance call-outs like Kent State.

      One of my parents was in the library on campus when the shootings occurred. Interestingly, I had never heard the tactical details shared by Dave S above (thanks, Dave!) but my parent was unsurprised that the “power of the peaceful masses” demonstrators pushed the government forces too far and caused an incident. The opinion was along the lines that they did this out of willful ignorance of what constituted threatening force, and denial that they could possibly be in the wrong because they were “peaceful”.

      • avatarDyspeptic Gunsmith says:

        Kent State, viewed in isolation, leads to very misleading conclusions. The Guard didn’t just roll up onto campus in APC’s, dismount, shove an en bloc clip of M2 ball into their Garands and light up the crowd.

        If one examines the national totality of the two+ years’ of violence and deliberately agitated action on campuses and in cities across the country leading up to Kent State, the actions of the SDS, Weathermen, et al… one sees why the Guard was called out and why so many people, when asked after the students were shot down, supported the Guard, not the students. There were remarks I read in the press at the time that struck me: Anonymous townspeople of Kent quoted in the press as saying “They should have shot more of them…”

        Well… that’s rather… harsh.

        Why would someone say this?

        Because in the weekend leading up to the shootings, the red diaper babies had:

        1. Burned down the ROTC building.
        2. Attacked the firemen who responded to the fire, slashed their hoses and drove them off.
        3. Went on a rampage of window-smashing on campus (doing major damage to the electrical engineering building) and…
        4. Went smashing windows on businesses downtown.

        “Peaceful” protest, my buttocks. In the 80′s, I got to meet people who were there at Kent State – well before the day of the shootings through the aftermath. The pure-as-the-driven-show left wing version of events very neatly omits the totality of the actions by the SDS, Weather Underground, et al designed to inflame the populace, political leadership and, yes, the police and the Guardsmen called out to deal with this crap. That discussion with a couple of guys who had been at Kent State was the start of my conversion to distrusting most everything I read in the press…

        The truth of it was this: The actions at Kent State were organized by the Weathermen/Weather Underground, Radical Youth Movement, SDS and their offshoots. The brains behind many of these movements were predominately spoiled, left-wing, middle class Jewish kids with big ideas and even bigger mouths. Starting in October ’69, these clowns decided that they were going to “bring the war home” light off a bomb in Chicago, then engage in direct hand-to-hand violence with “the man” – now known as the “Days of Rage.” This was, according to these young eggheads, going to foment a popular revolution as people “rose up” to break down the system.

        Yeeeaaaaa, right.

        In Chicago, “the man” was represented by tough Irish, Polish and German kids who grew up as brawlers to become policemen in Chicago. For those boys, a fistfight and a glass of whiskey was how they started their day. During the “Days of Rage,” the Chicago PD opened up a Costco-sized can of whup-ass on these twerps – I seem to recall the Chicago columnist Mike Rokyo (who has passed on) saying something akin to “they couldn’t fight their way out of a Polish wedding” when referring to the agitators. But… the Illinois governor called out 2,500 of the National Guard to back up the cops. This caused the red diaper babies to disperse from the city. That, IMO, set the stage for the Ohio governor to call out the Ohio Guard to deal with the Kent State crap.

        After the own-goal that was the “Days of Rage,” the Weathermen decided that a) soft, middle-class twerps with a pampered upbringings were not going to ignite the popular revolution they thought they would, so they would b) become terrorists. They’d burn and blow stuff up, and sure enough, that’s what they did – not just at Kent State, BTW.

        In March of 1970, the Weathermen (who had now morphed into the “Weather Underground”) blew a trio of their members to shreds with what we would now call an IED – it was the same sort of bomb that the terrs in Palestine use against the population of Israel – nails around an explosive core – and the Weather Underground went on the run. It was found out that the bomb had been intended for the US Army’s Ft. Dix – and would have blown up not only service members, but also their spouses, girlfriends and dates at a dance on base. Yea, that’s really going to get a popular uprising going – blowing up an Army dance hall.

        But now there were going to be copycats and one-ups in the leftist movement, who wanted to be as bad-ass as all those twerps in the Weather Underground. And so Kent and Kent State started to get burned and smashed.

        The Kent police told the governor that they couldn’t handle the situation… this was in the days before most major urban cities had “riot squads” and “tactical teams” and “SWAT.” The cops were just cops. People in Kent were hopping mad at the actions of the agitators – and they called upon the governor to “do something.” People in the midwest had seen two+ years of this crap. Baby boomers seem to conveniently forget that their parents’ generation was the Great Depression/WWII generation, who had seen and been through more than enough seriously involuntary crap for two or three lifetimes, and they were not going to endure a bunch of spoiled children running amok through their streets.

        When a generation of guys and gals who had dealt with a Dust Bowl, Depression, 23% unemployment (without the safety net we have today – we’re talking for-real destitution and hunger), then a four-year long war on two fronts with over 400,000 of our people dead… tells a bunch of spoiled kids to sit down and STFU, the smart move for the kids is to listen to their elders and do just that.

        But the kids were oh-so-terribly smart. They’d been to college, after all. They were, just as the political class they’ve become today, so much smarter than everyone else. They had all the answers.

        The Guard was called to Kent State – fresh off Teamster union violence in Akron. The Guard had just been dealing with some for-real violence in the streets, protecting “scabs” who were being brought in to drive trucks, and they were given no time to shift gears, as it were, and they were sent to deal with a bunch of kids on a campus where there had been fires, window-smashing and sit-ins.

        At some point, there were going to be some bodies hitting the ground in numbers too large to ignore. That was a given of that era – because there were people (the Black Panthers, SDS, RYM and WU) deliberately pushing for that result.

        When stupid people play stupid games, they win stupid prizes. And the twerps who helped foment Kent State got people killed playing stupid games. Yes, the Guard pulled the triggers. But the agitators were pushing for exactly that event. And they played it for all it was worth.

        BTW – interesting footnote of that era and the events leading up to Kent State: The Black Panthers rebuffed WU efforts to join forces, because after the “Days of Rage,” the Panthers thought the Weathermen/Weather Underground and their groupies were going to get a bunch of people killed. The Black Panthers turned out to be right.

        There’s plenty to study and learn about that era. When baby boomers get all dopey-eyed nostalgic for the 60′s, I see them as certifiable. The last five years of the 60′s, and indeed the first five years of the 70′s, would have been better off if they’d never happened for the US.

        • avatarGreat Lenin's Ghost says:

          A compelling argument. A more compelling argument is that the only good conservative is a dead one :)

          The SDS’s only mistake was not expressing their 2nd amendment rights :)

        • avatarmatt says:

          Regarding the Days Of Rage, Mayor Daley said “The police are not here to create disorder, they’re here to preserve disorder. ”

          it was the same sort of bomb that the terrs in Palestine use against the population of Israel

          You mean that the Jews used against the British in the Territory of Palestine – see the King David Hotel bombing.

          Great Depression/WWII generation, who had seen and been through more than enough seriously involuntary crap for two or three lifetimes, and they were not going to endure a bunch of spoiled children running amok through their streets.

          If the children were spoiled than it was their parents fault – the WW2 generation’s fault. And supposedly everyone likes to say that WW2 was fought for freedom, yet you seem to be saying that those same people who fought in WW2 violently oppressed their children who were doing nothing more than exercising their 1A right to protest.

          1. Burned down the ROTC building.

          Whats wrong with that, it is no less symbolic than burning a flag which the SCOTUS has declared is protected speech.

          Personally I love the Weathermen, they blew up the CPD’s Haymarket monument not once but twice! I just think its too bad they didnt exercise their 2A rights.

        • avatar16V says:

          “one sees why the Guard was called out and why so many people, when asked after the students were shot down, supported the Guard, not the students.”

          That is the very same group who would be happy to eliminate the 2A. Completely. “So many people” I know puked when hearing about what the Guard had done to American citizens. However misguided they were. Seppuku is the only thing of ‘honor’ dirtbags NGs have to look forward to.

          I get (and remember) the Nixon fear-mongering. I’m sorry DG, but please. These were NG encouraged to violently react to UNARMED students. For what? Some property damage? Really? That rounds were discharged is beyond disgraceful. That they killed American students should have been grounds for courts martial and summary execution. Not that they should have even been there in the first place.

          “Fix bayonets and hold” would have been more tenable.

          The late 60s early 70s were a mess. Thankfully, at least the kids knew back then that unwinnable wars that got our kids killed for nothing but money, was something to protest.

          Sadly, today’s tools are all on board.

        • avatarpat says:

          Stalins Ghost and matt: The big picture is that America took a dump in the mid-sixties to early seventies and it was the libtards fault.
          So much for the SOB LBJ’s Great Society.

        • avatarHerb says:

          “The last five years of the 60′s, and indeed the first five years of the 70′s, would have been better off if they’d never happened for the US.”

          An excellent summation of those ten despicable years! You should publish that entire post.

          This is for `Great Stalin’s Ghost’: troll, the only good commie is a dead commie. I flew choppers in Vietnam & did my own small role helping to create large numbers of dead commies and when I left, we were still winning.

          ;^)

        • avatarmatt says:

          the only good commie is a dead commie. I flew choppers in Vietnam & did my own small role helping to create large numbers of dead commies and when I left, we were still winning.

          But dont people like you love to say that service members fight for freedom, and the constitution. Your statement simply reaffirms that service members are statist thugs who will violently oppress people, including their fellow countrymen, for no other reason than they dont agree with their political views.

        • avatargloomhound says:

          Dyspeptic Gunsmith

          This is a very good post, still it is kinda funny that the “victims” of Kent State now only want the police to have civilian arms.

        • avatarMatt in FL says:

          And once again, DG starts typing, and I start learning. I read the Wikipedia page on Kent State, and a few others as well, but none gave as much insight as you did to the politics and times surrounding those events.

        • avatarJim D says:

          A brilliant compilation of the hard facts! Well done.

        • avatarRalph says:

          DG, the Guard killed four students who were on their way to class. End of story. Everything else is BS.

        • avatarDyspeptic Gunsmith says:

          Ralph, I didn’t say what happened at Kent State was right or righteous. I said that the WU and their ilk had bee goading the government into something like this. The Weather Underground and their ilk had been ratcheting up their rhetoric and actions for two years. They wanted a violent uprising. They wanted violence from the government – any government, local, state or federal.

          Well, they got the response they were seeking. It was going to happen somewhere, to someone, and it was going to be lethal. Even the Black Panthers saw this coming, and they wanted none of it.

          Kent State and students walking to class just happened to be where it was.

      • avatarmatt says:

        I’m talking about civil disturbance call-outs like Kent State.

        You do know they were called out for the civil disturbances during Katrina a few years ago?

  7. avatarClayton says:

    So…when can I buy my submarine?

  8. avatarAlphaGeek says:

    Regarding the Kotaku article:

    Has anyone noticed that all of the top comments on this article are solidly anti-Feinsteinish-ban at the least, and many are pro-gun?

    If you’re an OFWG (or anyone who doesn’t “get” video games, cough*Accur81*cough ;)) I highly recommend clicking on the Kotaku story. It’s a good read, and it illustrates a point I’ve made here before:

    It used to be that shooting sports enthusiasts got their start in hunting, military service, or both. These days there is a third 2A-friendly group: gamers. Their first gun may be a GSG MP5 replica in 22LR, not a .30-06, but they ARE a huge constituency that either shoots or is interested.

    • avatarg says:

      +1

      And if the gun rights community is serious about continuing the legacy of responsible firearms ownership in the US, these young people are the ones we need to work to educate and incorporate in the community. Not push away.

    • avatarWilliam says:

      I saw that too.

      Along with only a few individuals who cant understand that they are giving the same style of argument against firearms as those who claim violent video games are the root of all evil.

      Gives me a glimmer of hope…

      Anyway, back to my video games…. :)

      • avatarAlphaGeek says:

        Yeah, TTAG is getting in the way of some quality time leveling up my Mechromancer in Borderlands 2 right now…

        • avatarGyufygy says:

          Can’t comment, busy gunzerking…

          “ONE LINER!”

        • avatarAlphaGeek says:

          My favorite continues to be Axton shouting “You get a bullet! And YOU get a bullet!” in the middle of a huge firefight like a lethal Oprah Winfrey.

    • avatarC says:

      i wouldn’t be so sure about gamers being pro-2a.

      • avatarmatt says:

        Im a gamer and I’m pro-2a. Look at the prices for Kel-Tec KSGs which were featured in Call Of Duty and tell me that gamers arent pro-2a.

      • avatarrosignol says:

        A lot of them aren’t, yet. They’re still gathering information and deciding. Unfortunately, most of the information they’re getting is via the mainstream media, facebook, and other sources that are not generally friendly to the 2nd-A.

        But a huge number of them are reflexively pro-1st-A, and know very well what it’s like to have a hobby you enjoy blamed for a tragedy because a nutjob had the same hobby.

        A little outreach to the gaming community will pay off tremendously. The population is much more urbanized these days, for a lot of people, their first exposure to a firearm is in a game. Yes, this leads to some of them believing hilarious ‘facts’ and having unrealistic expectations… but at least they’re interested and willing to listen. Demonizing them is a huge mistake.

        If there is going to be another generation of gun owners, a huge number of them will have been video gamers. We need to recruit them, not blame their hobby for the actions of a lunatic.

    • avatarrosignol says:

      Blaming videogames for gun violence is a huge mistake. Someone needs to explain this to LaPierre ASAP.

      The vast majority of video games make it very clear that what is done with a firearm is entirely at the discretion of the person holding it. The player decides what the target is, aims, and chooses to pull the trigger. The gun in a game does absolutely nothing on it’s own- they are entirely implements of the player’s will.

      These games are doing more to refute decades of propaganda pushed by the Bradys than the NRA is, and if the 2nd-A organizations would at least give support for the 1st A a nod* instead of trying to shift blame, a huge number of video game players will be willing to give the other stuff the 2nd A groups are saying a listen.

      *which they should be doing. The point of the 2nd A is so we have the means to defend the rest.

    • avatarCarlosT says:

      [kids these days]
      The problem I have with today’s video games is there’s too much extraneous crap in them that’s just there to act as filler to pad out the playing time.

      It’s gotten to the point where if a game mentions “open world” or anything like that, it goes back on the shelf immediately. I was playing Red Dead Redemption and when the old man asked me to become his florist I just stopped talking to NPCs. Here I am playing a gunslinger in the Old West, and I’m going to fart around collecting wild flowers? WTF? Call FTD, geezer. Solve your own damn problems and leave me alone.
      [/kids these days]

    • avatarMamba says:

      I’m a gamer, own a GSG-522 (tricked out a bit), and am pro-2A….not necessarily in that order. I’m also an OFWG, tho’ not so much F as O.
      (we now return you to your regularly scheduled Crysis 3 MP Beta session ;) )

  9. avatarg says:

    Sad, but I wonder if what a “new” Kent State situation would do.

    Imagine: A peaceful protest march of pro-2A people in NY. Men and women of every background, age, ethnicity. Some children. In an act of civil disobedience, members are prominently displaying empty “high capacity magazines”,10 round mags, 30 rounds mags, beta drums, etc. The group marches directly to NY state legislature building, setting up a massive protest camp (ala “Occupy”) based ironically in Lafayette Park. The protest crowd begins to grow over several days. There are rumors that besides the magazines, and against official instructions by the organizers of the movement, several protesters are openly carrying locked and loaded firearms.

    Nervous at the size of the crowd of protesters, Cuomo, Bloomberg, and the other NY elites call out the national guard. The 2A protesters are ordered to surrender any magazines and firearms, and to disperse. Several sympathetic guardsmen/women refuse to do so, but as the majority of national guard troops approach the protesters, a nervous guardsman spots what he *thinks* is a 2A protester aiming his handgun with its “deadly” 10 round magazine at him.

    The national guardsman fires his weapon, and a massive firefight erupts with casualties on both sides. Chaos seizes Albany.

    The mass media has a field day claiming that the 2A protesters fired first, despite coverage from eyewitnesses on internet blogs such as TTAG that the national guard fired first.

    The misinformed public is outraged. The governor declares martial law, and orders the mass disarmament of the state of NY.

    • avatarAlphaGeek says:

      The problem is that it wouldn’t be a firefight, because 2A supporters are so carefully law-abiding that there wouldn’t be a live round in a magazine anywhere within our ranks. And if we did spot a rogue in our midst with a live weapon, I fully believe that he (or she) would be immediately surrounded and counseled into giving up the ammo.

      Yes, a mistaken shooting could occur, but in this case I would be less worried than usual about an agent provocateur, because they’d be quite likely to get caught in the massacre.

      Besides, SOP is to line up riot control troops and use chemical agents to disperse protesters. Something tells me that the preparedness level of our crowd, in terms of gas masks and similar gear, would be about 100X that of the Occupy crowd.

    • avatarDyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      It wouldn’t play out the same way, because the RKBA crowd would:

      1. Not burn down buildings.
      2. Not go on window-smashing sprees in the middle of the night.
      3. Not do goofy crap like “sit ins.”
      4. Not have morons like Jerry Rubin telling kids to “shoot their parents.”
      5. Not have a track record of bombing public spaces and buildings.

      Every RKBA rally I’ve been to (and I’ve been to a bunch in the 90′s), we left the grounds or area groomed and policed of all trash, no one got parking tickets, we had hired porta-potties, the whole nine yards. In other words, we acted like adults and professionals.

      That wasn’t the case at Kent State.

      • avatarrosignol says:

        Not just that… a lot of people have a cellphone that can record video these days. If the ‘official’ story wasn’t the real deal, the video would show what really happened.

  10. avatarAlphaGeek says:

    If AR-class rifles are weapons of war, I don’t want the police to have them because I don’t want a war breaking out on the streets of my city. Maybe they should use double-barreled shotguns instead, like VP Biden suggests for situations of civil unrest.

    What’s that you say? When a LEO holds an AR in California, it’s a “patrol rifle”, but if I hold the exact same rifle, it’s an “assault weapon”? Pshaw, sir, no one would be so silly as to pass a law like that.

    • avatarBill F says:

      “Maybe they should use double-barreled shotguns instead, like VP Biden suggests for situations of civil unrest.”
      Or scissors.

  11. avatardislexic says:

    So in the anti-gun animated metric, did anyone else notice that the Northwest region only had 2% of the total gun murders represented? I would love more data on this or to see this explored in greater depth.

    Maybe we need to be looking at what the Northwest is doing, because last time I checked guns were still legal in that part of the country.

  12. avatarS.CROCK says:

    i like what the old guy said at the end of the Swiss video. it was along the lines of if you don’t have the ability to defend yourself then you are at the mercy of anyone that wishes you harm.(well any one, wishing harm or not.) then he said the tools to defend yourselves is a gun.

    • avatarCliff says:

      Radio icon Paul Harvey, who loved the outdoors, once asked his guide why he wore a pistol. The response (I’m paraphrasing since this was quite a few years ago) “Out here on your own if you are not prepared to defend yourself you may well find yourself at the mercy of men with no mercy.”

      ‘Bout sums it up.

    • avatarO.E says:

      When I said that mercy stood within the borders of the wood.
      I meant the lenient beast with claws.
      And bloody swift-dispatching jaws.

      Lawrence Spingarn

  13. avatarRopingdown says:

    What a daily summary. The ex-pat Swiss woman on the Huff Post link was wrong about Switzerland in almost every regard. No, the young reservists are not different than the old ones. The mass shooter wasn’t a soldier. You are not required to have two separate cabinets for your rifle. You can buy ammo for your Sig 550, though you can’t keep the issued box at home. Switzerland is fine with its guns.

    Every vision of gun use half of America has in their minds is a sick vision conjured by a fabulist whose only guide is sensational box-office receipts. Of course they think guns are scary. And of course they forget everything they briefly once knew, like what it felt like to be a Korean grocer in Koreatown, LA, in 1992 when the cops fled the scene and it took three days to get the marines, reserves, and guards to LA, and there was a 10-day wait period to buy a gun. Or to be an unarmed black farm family in Alabama when the clan rode up at night.

    I’m gratified that someone on the site remembers who Lyman Lemnitzer was, and what Operation Northwoods was supposed to do. Are there two of you?

    Video games probably don’t cause crime, but they are a good diagnostic tool: If your adult kid stays in the basement playing FPS’s 8 hours a day six days a week, maybe you should get him into counseling. No?

    • avatar16V says:

      It’s HuffyPo, the “truth” is what our sycophants decide it is. We count on the fact that the average idiot will believe everything that it is written about a foreign country that aligns with their pre-suppositions.

      ‘Northwoods’ didn’t really exist despite all the documents proving it. Even if it did, it never would have happened, our glorious gov would have never allowed it. That’s all just crazy talk…

      Our gov would never let anyone sail on a vessel that everyone knew would be the target of a foreign power who placed multiple ads in newspapers announcing it was carrying munitions and would be attacked and sunk (Lusitania).

    • avatarSwisscrow says:

      Correct. She is wrong. The issued STGW 90 (Swiss military reference for the 550) can be kept at home while you are still an active reservist but once you leave it is modified. Since 2010 the automatic capacity is removed in the military arsenal and its downgraded to a semi automatic. Only then, can you keep the STGW 90 at home as a decommissioned soldier. But while you still serve you also do keep it at home but should remove the bolt and store it separately. BTW. Ownership of assault rifles vary massively. The Swiss government admits between 600’000 to 2 million assault rifles are stored in Swiss homes.

    • avatarCarlosT says:

      She makes Switzerland ripe for the picking. Just stroll through while everyone is scrambling to unlock their two separate closets and then get to the armory for ammo.

  14. avatarAharon says:

    MSNBC EXCLUSIVE: Justice Dept. memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans
    “The confidential paper says the government can order the killing of some citizens without intelligence indicating that they are plotting to attack the U.S.”

    • avatarLogan P says:

      Links or it didn’t happen.

        • avatar16V says:

          Exactly Ralph,

          The point is, that even (or especially) if you don’t “like them” for whatever reason, they get a fair trial.

          WHY? Because if they don’t, someday you may be the “unpopular” one on trial. Do you want a fair trial now?

          Yeah, that’s what I thought.

      • avatarmatt says:

        They dont even have to be plotting a attack, see Abdulrahman al-Aulaqi and Anwar al-Aulaqi, both of whom were American citizens who were extra-judicially executed in separate drone strikes 2011.

        • avatarJuliesa says:

          Several followers of Awlaki have already committed attacks in the US. Maybe it’s just coincidence that Nidal Hasan, Carlos Bledsoe, the underwear bomber, and the failed printer bomb guys were all buddies of Awlaki.

        • avatarmatt says:

          It doesnt matter what they did, you do have a right to freedom of association.

        • avatarRalph says:

          “[No person shall] be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.”

          Where was the due process? Awlaki was a pr!ck, but even pr!cks are entitled to due process, not summary execution with no process whatsoever.

    • avatarFrank Williams says:

      The paper states that the U.S. would be able to kill a U.S. citizen overseas when “an informed, high-level official of the U.S. government” determines the target is an imminent threat, when capture would be infeasible and when the operation is “conducted consistent with applicable law of war principles.”

      So I wonder how long before the word “overseas” is removed from this equation?

      • avatarRalph says:

        Hey, if the G is going to flush the 5th Amendment due process clause down the drain, there’s no difference between overseas and here.

  15. avatarCliff says:

    A new anti-gun metric animated…

    I seem to recall a statistic recently that something like 80% of gun homicides were either criminals and/or persons involved in criminal activity? How exactly does that relate to the statistic of “Stolen Years”? If they had been arrested and convicted of their crimes instead would the time in prison also count as Stolen Years? If you want to calculate “Stolen Years”, related it to the percentage of innocents or good guys who were murdered. Criminals who die from gunfire didn’t have their life stolen, they gambled it and they lost.

  16. avatarSid says:

    Kent State is a bad metaphor for the current 2A struggle.

    As Dyspeptic Gunsmith points out above, it was not a case of the man coming to harsh the mellow of peaceful protestors who were just trying to be heard. The governor called out the guard unit after consulting with the university president and local leaders. They were concerned (rightfully so) that the ROTC building was the first of many targets, not the only target.

    Just a little research into crowds at protest events that have turned violent would tell you they were right. It is not that broken windows are a terrible crime. It is broken windows first. Some looting. A few cars turned over. A car set on fire. A building set on fire. Hey, while we are at it let’s rape some women, steal some stuff, and kill that cop.

    The better lesson to learn is that you need your 2A rights because violent mobs have to be confronted. The NG will help when they can. But if you think waiting on the police to respond is too long….

    • avatarDyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      That’s the point I was trying to get across.

      Kent State was a result of a bunch of spoiled children (who have now grown into solipsistic adults) playing stupid games. Their argument was stupid from the get-go, and their “tactics” were even dumber. There’s no one in the RKBA movement that stupid – not even the supposed “militia movement,” which is greatly exaggerated by the clowns in the NY press (eg, NYT).

      Communism has a pile of bodies three times as large as fascism to it’s credit, and yet we had (and still have) morons across the country on college campuses championing the cause.

      • avatar16V says:

        Spoiled children or not, they deserved a day in court after a lawful arrest. THEY WEREN’T ARMED. FULL STOP.

        Not a summary execution by NG children who were amp’ed up to think this was the second coming of Stalin.

        I know it was different in context. I was alive and aware back then. That doesn’t make any of what happened more right than any of a dozen massacres in the 20th.

  17. avatarO.E says:

    Not a cigarette paper between the two sides can be squeezed, they are so alike in their need for violent encounters.

    One side seeks a fight using street brawling techniques preluded by threats of collective assault and the energizing of an inhuman force-field system made of ‘people power’ (useful idiots whom make up the first wave to every street clash), and the other side seeks a ballistic based firefight literally promising all coming contestants that collateral and unintended damages are unavoidable due to the unlimited bullet capacity rules belligerent & or criminal forces play by when the games begin.

    Un-involved parties are expected to just shut up & put up with how the world works.

    Someone of high reputation once said “In a man to man fight, the winner is he who has one more round in his magazine.”

    With this in mind it makes very good sense for Government to keep close watch on Militia groups who are learning at the standard rate which History provides.

  18. avatarpat says:

    Probably why they have been buying so gaud awful many rounds.

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