Official: The Guns Used in Newtown Shooting

Bushmaster XM15-E2S (courtesy bushmaster.com)Bushmaster XM15-E2S Bushmaster XM15-E2S courtesy flickriver.comThe Newtown Police Department have released the details of the firearms used in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting. We had some idea about what guns were used pretty quickly after CNN’s choppers started flying overhead, but no official word until recently. As expected, the press release reads like a [short] list of the most popular firearms in the United States. The PD also detailed where the guns were found. From the Connecticut Department of Emergency Services & Public Protection . . .

Seized inside the school:
#1. Bushmaster .223 caliber– model XM15-E2S rifle with high capacity 30 round magazine
#2. Glock 10 mm handgun
#3. Sig-Sauer P226 9mm handgun

Seized from suspect’s car in parking lot:
#4. Izhmash Canta-12 12 gauge Shotgun (seized from car in parking lot)

I’m not entirely sure why the police felt the need to specifically point out that the rifle had a “high capacity” magazine when they didn’t talk about magazine size for any other guns, but I’ll let you draw your own conclusions.

The shotgun found in the trunk is actually a Saiga-12, but since the model name on the gun is spelled in Cyrillic characters it’s listed incorrectly in the police report. And as the gun is listed as being found in the trunk, I think we can dismiss the wishful thinking that it was really the AR-15 that was found in the trunk.

Like I said, this is a list of some of the top-selling guns in the United States. Well, except the 10mm Glock (Glocks are popular, and Jeff Cooper might be pretty cool, but 10mm still isn’t quite as popular as Glock’s 9mm variants). In fact, I’ve owned a model of each of these firearms myself at some point in my life. As have millions of other law abiding Americans who have never committed a crime.

Which brings up an interesting constitutional issue. These guns are wildly popular. And, thanks to Heller’s supreme court win, they appear to be untouchable as far as the judicial system is concerned. From an NRA piece:

What did the landmark Heller decision have to say about banning guns like the AR-15? Justice Scalia’s opinion for the Court says that the Second Amendment “does not protect those weapons not typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes, such as short-barreled shotguns.” The Heller decision interpreted a 1939 Supreme Court case, United States v. Miller, as standing for the principle that the Second Amendment has historically protected guns “in common use at the time,” rather than “dangerous and unusual weapons.” While some scholars have disagreed with the court’s reasoning, the court went on to suggest that bans on short shotguns, short rifles and machine guns are not unconstitutional because those guns are not among the type of “arms” protected by the Second Amendment right.

So, even if we wanted to ban the guns specifically used in this attack, the Supreme Court says it can’t legally be done. And yet. . . .

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About Nick Leghorn

Nick Leghorn is a gun nerd living and working in San Antonio, Texas. In his free time, he's a competition shooter (USPSA, 3-gun and NRA High Power), aspiring pilot, and enjoys mixing statistics and science with firearms. Now on sale: Getting Started with Firearms by yours truly!

129 Responses to Official: The Guns Used in Newtown Shooting

  1. avatarSome Guy says:

    They listed the AR-15 as having a high cap mag because many of the police officials in the CT have an agenda. Make no mistake about it. It was painfully obvious at the hearings that were had not to long ago.

    That and the fact that the rebranding of 30rnd mags as “high capacity” seems to be working.

    • avatarKory says:

      But if the Supreme Court says that it protects guns “in common use at the time,” then the 30-round magazine is the most common for the most popular rifle. The 40, 60, and 100 round magazines are not.

      We need to start defining these appropriately as:
      7-round – New York Capacity
      10-round – Brady Capacity
      20-round – Maryland Capacity
      30-round – Full Capacity or Normal Capacity
      40-round – High Capacity
      60-round – Double Capacity
      100-round – Uber Capacity

  2. avatarCyril says:

    ‘Izhmash Canta-12 12 gauge Shotgun (seized from car in parking lot)’

    …Canta 12? Somebody needs to read up on their Cyrillic alphabet…

    • avatarDrVino says:

      I was LMFO too….

      Americans and their silly letters and inability to articulate strings of consonants…..

      • avatarCyril says:

        I just hope it was a clerical error and not the lead investigator thinking to him/herself “Oh, that looks like a backwards N and half a T… Canta-12 it is! What, made in Russia? They speak English there, right?”

        …I am probably giving him/her entirely too much credit…

      • avatarLarry says:

        Umm I actually like our letters and think that Russian stuff looks like chicken scratch.

        • avatarSixpack70 says:

          I sure hope they ban that evil Canta-12! Who the heck needs one of those things anyway? I am glad my Saigas aren’t being targeted.

  3. avatarWilliam says:

    This is the gun that “was used in the shooting” that was THEN found locked in the trunk of the car? And now they’re saying it got out and killed after all?

    SUCKERS.

  4. avatarjwm says:

    Nobody saw that black helicopter hovering over the scene? The men in the black vans staging bodies and clues and forcing all the witnesses and first responders to go along with murdering all those kids? How about Lanza,s body being pulled out of the cold storage unit and kitted out and then left on scene?

    Do I need to say sarcasm off?

  5. avatarSammy says:

    I saw the video of the long gun being taken from the car. I’m no gunsmith (sad to say) but what they took out of that trunk didn’t look like a shotgun to me. And the cop sure didn’t handle it like a shotgun.

    • avatarNickS says:

      A Saga-12 wouldn’t look like a normal shotgun to many people in this country, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is a shotgun. It is a detachable-magazine fed shotgun built on the AK-47 design, and features the same controls (selector lever, right handed bolt charging handle). From a distance it would be difficult to distinguish from the AK, except for barrel diameter and the size of the magazine. For those who don’t know anything about firearms, or aren’t familiar with this particular model, it could easily be mistaken for a rifle.

    • avatarMatt in FL says:

      No, he handled it like a Saiga-12, which handles like an AK.

    • avatarsurlycmd says:

      Click on the Saiga-12 link in Nick’s post. Does that look like what you saw in the video?

    • avatarthomas says:

      The Saiga 12 is a shotgun using the AK platform. The officer pulled the charging handle to remove the round in the chamber, clearing the weapon.

    • avatarSkeev says:

      From what little we could see, it definitely looked like and was handled like a Saiga shotgun.

    • avatarblinkypete says:

      I love how conspiracy theorists base their ‘evidence’ on statements like “that doesn’t look like what it’s supposed to be to me”. Brilliant folks, they is.

    • avatarChuck J says:

      The Saiga shotgun is a magazine fed shotgun. My first impression when seeing the video was that it was a Saiga shotgun. What was racked out of the action looked too big to be anything but a shotgun shell.

  6. avatarAccur81 says:

    That is a lot of hardware. This sick bastard was clearly set up for his own demented war. Was that an actual photo of the AR used or just one of the popular photos from the Internet? If he was carrying the handguns in a tactical vest, it would seem to show additional pre-meditation.

    We still don’t have the ammo story, or a timeline of shots fired to boots on scene. And by boots on the ground, I mean within firing distance of Lanza.

    • avatarWilliam says:

      The cops said they found it in the car trunk. Not Lanza’s trunk. That other guy they released. The one with a lengthy violent record. What was his name?

      When cops can’t keep their story straight, something is rotten. What happened to the two other men they were show pursuing? One was seen cuffed in the back of a cruiser. WHO WAS HE? WHAT’S THE STORY? Did he flash some ID?

      • avatarRalph says:

        What was his name?

        The Cigarette Smoking Man.

        • avatarPaul W says:

          One armed cigarette smoking man?

        • avatarAnon in CT says:

          Played by actor WILLIAM B. Davis.

          Coincedence? I think . . . . so.

        • avatarfred says:

          christopher rodia is the alleged owner of the dark honda they show being hauled off on the flat bed. as for the bushmaster did the mom actually own one? and nbc news story said she had five guns and none they listed was a bushmaster

        • avatarDerek says:

          Keyser Soze?

      • avatarAlphaGeek says:

        Take a deep breath, get caught up on your medication regimen, and do some research on sites which are fact rather than conspiracy oriented.

        • avatarAccur81 says:

          There isn’t any reason – not any good reason anyways – why the police could not publish a Prelimary Report. The known facts can be released, particularly the timeline. The withholding of those facts is suspicious.

        • avatarAlphaGeek says:

          Fair enough, A81, but look how you managed to express that without shouting or crazy talk.

          Personally, I don’t think it rises to the level of “suspicious” but I do think they’re being overly reluctant with their disclosures and need to be pushed harder. Seems like investigators haven’t learned any of the key lessons about how to manage the public side of an incident like this, i.e. aggressive openness and transparency.

        • avatarblinkypete says:

          The simple reason is that there’s no real reason for them to. Early, unfinished findings could be inaccurate and a million pages of hard evidence complete with a POV video shot by the killer isn’t going to convince people like William of anything.

          It’s reasonable to assume antigun forces are going yo use situations like this to their advantage, and it’s reasonable to accuse them of such. It’s unreasonable to say that this event was the work of a massive government conspiracy, and it’s indicative of severely stunted critical thinking skills.

        • avatarDerek Schneider says:

          That might be easier said than done. Seems nobody is releasing the “facts”, with all the mixed reports that have been printed since this tragedy happened.

      • avatarLayne says:

        I believe he was identified as a student’s father. Who just happened to be at his kid’s school at 9:30… Wearing camo… Running from the cops…

        • avatarblinkypete says:

          You just confused at least two people from the scene. Odd, though, how there were several people near a school in a thickly settled area, and that the police detained some of them when said school was shot up.

          The truth is out there, and we need brilliant people like you to find it.

      • avatarGyufygy says:

        Dude, ever heard of the Fog of War? Applies here, although in this case, it’s the Fog of Rushing to Publish.

        • avatarcz82mak says:

          Yeah Hillary Clinton mentions “Fog of War” all the time…when she’s lying and covering her ass.

          Believe I’ve heard Obama and/or his mouthpiece Carney tout that line some too. Always means some bullshit is being swept under the rug.

        • avatarGyufygy says:

          It means that eye-witnesses suck. It can be used as an excuse, but saying that it’s merely a cop-out for politicians is verifiably wrong.

        • avatarblinkypete says:

          This.

  7. avatarTaurus609 says:

    Nick, my only criticism is, please just show a standard Bushmaster, not some tricked out AR. We don’t need anymore ammo for the antis!

  8. avatarHow'dhe says:

    Ok, so – 3 guns, 3 different calibers, magazines I would presume for each. Thats quite a loadout. I am trying to get a mental picture of what this guy looked like with all that gear. If he had it all on a belt, he would not fit in the drivers side of the car – but if not – did he gear up on site? Shotgun in trunk would suggest at least he arrived, popped the trunk to get rifle? I shoot 3gun matches and rifle/pistol together is quite a lot to manage – its that 3rd gun/ammo that just makes it difficult to picture – Not a conspiracy theory or anything, just, well….wow.

    • avatarjwm says:

      How’dhe, you’re thinking like a rational man. You and I are at a great disadvantage when we try to get into the mind of creatures like Lanza. He was on a 1 way mission and he kitted up accordingly. And the pictures I saw of him showed him to be slight of build. There’s no way I could get my fat ass into my Camry with all that hanging off me. But I’m old and fat and not nearly as limber as I once was. Lanza didn’t suffer from those drawbacks.

      And he may simply have driven to the school and kitted up quickly out of the trunk.

  9. avatarBilly Wardlaw says:

    The Court’s decision in Heller, as printed here, is circular reasoning. If the guns are prohibited and highly restricted they are not likely to be in common use, therefore they can be prohibited and/or restricted.

    This reasoning also precludes any evolution or progress in the types of firearms that can be expected to become “common in use”.

    • avatarBrian says:

      Yep. Heller is fine, and much better than if the case had come out the other way, but it is not the magic bullet by any stretch. The holding and its protections are limited in ways that should give gun owners pause before the rely on them too heavily.

      Of course, if one of the Heller five go down and Obama has an anti-2A Senate to work with we can kiss even Heller’s limited protections good-bye.

    • avatarMatt in FL says:

      I’ve wondered about the circularity (is that a word?) of that argument, as well. I guess the question would be “were fully automatic weapons ‘common in use’ prior to 1986?”

      Obviously I know they’d be in more common use today if the registry hadn’t been closed in ’86, but if you could magically transport the Heller decision to a month before the Hughes Amendment was passed, would they have even met that standard then? I have no idea. I was 10.

      • avatarBrian says:

        You would probably want to look at 1934 and the original NFA and see what the status of full auto weapons was then.

        Arguably, if they were sufficiently popular and used for lawful purposes then their highly restrictive regulation may have been unconstitutional.

        That said, the Heller decision gives little comfort that the Court would go that far. Of course, it is just dicta, so who knows.

      • avatarJoey says:

        Also, from reading the Heller case, they talked about “in common use” in regards to the military, as in, the military didn’t use short barreled shotguns, so they weren’t in common use. If that’s the argument, then the 1986 ban is unconstitutional. If they want to talk about civilian use, then I’d argue the same, since cops are civilians (no matter how bad they don’t want to be), then whatever law enforcement uses would be “in common use.” Either way, it’s time for the 1986 ban to go

        • avatarBrian says:

          Of course, Scalia also talks about how what civilians can own and technology may deviate and calls out the M-16 in context of something not protected (at least under the scope of the Heller decision). So who knows?

          The whole opinion reads like he had to drag someone (Kennedy?) over to his side by avoiding writing anything too strident.

  10. avatarBrian says:

    Yeah, but as that same piece pointed out, whoever won in 2012 would probably get to appoint several SCOTUS Justices, and last time I checked 2012 didn’t work out so well for us.

  11. avatarRuun says:

    Do they take the heavy NFA regulation into account when saying short-barreled anythings aren’t in common use and therefore not protected? They major reason that I don’t have a couple NFA items is because the thought of the NFA and ATF pisses me off.

    • avatarBrian says:

      Probably, the Court has said that long standing prohibitions/requirements are presumed valid. Under Heller’s weird test this is potentially problematic for anything that has been restricted by the NFA, and possibly anything new and sufficiently different that comes down the pike and doesn’t have time to really enter the civilian market before it is regulated.

      • avatarBob says:

        The NFA of 1934 also known as the anti sub machine gun law restricted these type wepon’s to semi automatic types. Mainly it was the 1921 Thompson at the center of it. You have to go back a few more years though to 1902 and the DICK ACT That states, any restriction’s on the SecondAmendment are Unconstitutional. Yes the Heller Decision leaves way too much room for anti gun politician’s to work with. The Second amendment as written and intended was to give the Citizen’s the right to keep and bear arm’s that are in ‘regular use’ by the Military so that in the possibility of a tyrannical Government to come into power the people would have the same capability as the Military. It also holds true for a “Civilian Militia as a ‘backup’ to the Military as a secondary National defense force. There is way too much Fodder in the Newtown Killing’s for anti gun politician’s to jump on and use to abuse We the People’s Right’s. I doubt if the truth will ever actually come out as to exactly what and where the weapons were found that were used by Lanza if indeed he was the actual perp. Yes a lot of crazed conspiricy theorist’s to this as well.I just can’t afford to jump on a plane or whatever and rush to the scene of every high profile event to try and find the actual truth. I do know the LMS used this incident to foster anti gun sentiment and the ‘need for common sense gun laws’. Problem is Criminal’s never obey laws and will find some way to perfrm their heinous act’s. By disarming or limiting the arms that citizen’s may possess to me is no where near common sense.

  12. avatarJohnny Mac says:

    While it is easy to interpret Heller as encompassing AR-15s, as they are in common use, it may be instructive to read Eugene Volokh’s analysis of gun control possibilities post-Heller/McDonald:

    http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/2am.pdf

    He articulates convincing reasons why an AWB might stand constitutional muster.

    • avatarBrian says:

      Yep. There is good reason to believe that our primary and maybe only defense against an AWB is legislative since the Court takes a much narrower view of the 2A than most of the folks at this site would prefer.

    • avatarAlphaGeek says:

      He articulates convincing reasons why an AWB might stand constitutional muster.

      No, he doesn’t. His reasoning is weak, IMHO. Don’t get me wrong, I think Volokh is brilliant, but when it comes to “assault weapons” he got lazy.

      His sole test for the constitutionality of “assault weapons” bans rests on the idea that there are other firearms which are functionally equivalent substitutes for AR/AK-class rifles:

      Semiautomatic assault weapons are functionally virtually identical to other semiautomatics, and are as much arms as are other semiautomatics. But bans on such weapons don’t substantially burden the right to keep and bear arms for self-defense, precisely because equally useful guns remain
      available.

      Really? Show me another reliable, lightweight, 16-inch-barreled, magazine-fed, pistol-grip rifle upon which I can easily mount a flashlight and sights appropriate to my requirements.

      Sorry, but Volokh screwed the pooch on the AWB issue. In this particular instance it’s a good thing he’s not a SCOTUS judge.

      • avatarBrian says:

        Really? Show me another reliable, lightweight, 16-inch-barreled, magazine-fed, pistol-grip rifle upon which I can easily mount a flashlight and sights appropriate to my requirements.

        I think Volokh’s argument is that the Court may not find this sufficiently meaningful to overcome the state’s proffered “interest” in an AWB. The issue for the Court may not be whether AR-15s and the like are better, but do people have sufficient other tools available for self-defense that a restriction on AWBs would not overburden their right to self defense.

        This isn’t to say this view should control or is right, but <i.Heller and McDonald are compromise cases with areas of vulnerability.

  13. avatarOODAloop says:

    Wow, the killer must have had a *really* long time in Sandy Hook because either he only had *1* 30-round magazine and had plenty of time to reload it from boxed/loose .223 rounds or the CT folks only decided to release the list for effect. You’d think that they could at lease be accurate about what they actually found at the scene…

    • avatarmountocean says:

      That’s a great point. Just like Nick pointed out the report doesn’t mention the capacity of the pistols, it is equally important to know how many spares he had.

      • avatarAlphaGeek says:

        For the avoidance of doubt:

        A careful reading of today’s exercise in brevity by the CT State Police shows that they are only disclosing the weapons recovered at the crime scene, which of course includes any magazine affixed to the weapon when it was found.

        The report is silent on the question of additional magazines for any of the firearms found, just as it is on spent brass, loose rounds, load-bearing vests, etc.

        TL;DR version: just because they didn’t mention any additional magazines doesn’t mean that such magazines don’t exist.

        • avatarblinkypete says:

          Well said, though this won’t stop certain people from introducing that absence as evidence when another report suggests he had more than one magazine.

  14. avatarJohn says:

    I can’t recall if it was reported that he fired the handguns or not, but it sure sounded from several reports like he walked into a classroom with a group of kids cowering in the corner and shot into the tightly packed group. I don’t know enough about ballistics, could he have done that much damage with a single 30 round magazine given that scenario? Would that agree with the single magazine reportely found?

    • avatarAlphaGeek says:

      See my comment above. They found one magazine in the AR15. The report is silent on additional magazines found at the crime scene — it only details the firearms recovered, not everything else left on the scene.

    • avatarSue says:

      A quick search shows several news articles where they note more than one magazine.

      “Lanza changed magazines frequently as he fired his way through the first-grade classrooms of Lauren Rousseau and Victoria Soto, sometimes shooting as few as 15 shots from a 30-round magazine, sources said.

      More than a week after the shooting, investigators were still finding bullets under doors and in carpets and walls in the school as they tried to match the casings to the magazines.

      Investigators are aware that frequent reloading is common in violent video games because an experienced player knows never to enter a new building or room without a full magazine so as not to risk running out of bullets. This has led them to speculate privately that this might be a reason that he replaced magazines frequently. ”

      Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/world/adam-lanza-update-sandy-hook-school-shooter-changed-magazines-frequently-as-he-fired-police-say#ixzz2KDu3RoFQ

  15. avatarJim says:

    Why was the AR reported by the first responders on day one as being found in the car and now being reported the school. the change didn’t happen untill outside forces rewrote the story .

    • avatarMatt in FL says:

      Actually the “rifle in the trunk” story was reported early in the day of the shooting, and was corrected before the day was out. CNN was running a timestamped update article, and I think the correction was made somewhere around 5 p.m.

  16. avatarphil ladelphia says:

    If I recall the weapons used were stolen from his mother. Am I wrong or what and if I am right why I don’t hear anything about stolen weapons?

    • avatarRalph says:

      You’re not wrong. The skinny pr!ck tried to buy a gun but was refused. So he killed his mom and took hers. Or so it seems.

      • avatarBrett says:

        Didn’t his Dad get killed a couple hours away too? I don’t know of any 20 year old on drugs motivated enough to get up early to go kill anyone…. doesn’t make sense…

        • avatarblinkypete says:

          You can’t even be bothered to do a cursory skimming of the Wikipedia article on the matter or get basic facts straight (no one’s father was killed), yet you’re qualified to say what does or doesn’t make sense?

          I don’t think you’re qualified to flip a hamburger.

        • avatarBrett says:

          I’m talking about the initial reports, not subsequent coverup, I mean follow up….

        • avatarMatt in FL says:

          That was part of the initial story, yes. It turned out not to be true, and if I recall correctly, his dad actually only found out later in the afternoon from the reporter that was waiting in his driveway when he got home.

        • avatarBlinkyPete says:

          So in your world initial reports can never be false?

      • avatarAnon in CT says:

        Gotta ask – how many women buy Glock 20s for themselves? Doesn’t it have the largest grip diameter of any Glock because of the length of the 10mm rounds?

  17. avatarDave Erickson says:

    This info was released weeks ago — it reveals nothing new. Still fooling you with the headline, too; it tells us nothing about what weapons were USED at/in Sandy Hook, only which weapons were SEIZED inside the school. I have yet to see a ballistics report detailing which weapon(s) was FIRED inside the school, or which weapon(s) caused the death of the victims. Everybody is still assuming it was the rifle that was used for the killings, but no evidence of that has been presented. We still haven’t got the full story!

    • avatarBrett says:

      Never will… = staged

    • avatarblinkypete says:

      It. Doesn’t. Flocking. Matter.

      This guy didn’t need an AR 15. He didn’t need the handguns. He wasn’t going up against armed foes, or even unarmed people his own size. He intentionally, specifically chose the most defenseless victims he could think of. A six shooter or two would likely have caused the same level of damage, and three times more ten round magazines in a friendly looking hunting rifle certainly would have.

      This needs to be our dialog. Demanding to know what was used and how much only plays into the anti’s game.

    • avatarBrian says:

      I remember the day of the shooting that the medical examiner said most of the injuries were caused by the rifle. That has been the consistent refrain and there is no reason to doubt it.

  18. avatarUnapologeticallyAmerican says:

    They released the “guns used” after enough people have been questioning the truth. Hoping we all just accept the “official story”. IF it really had been an “assault rifle” we would have had images of Adam Lanza walking through the school blasting teachers and students. Pictures speak 1000 words and are very powerful in public opinion (that Obama desperately wants to influence). After all the school just had a brand new video security system installed. There was probably every network represented at the scene, yet they all used the same half dozen approved pictures.

    President Obama couldn’t keep a top secret special operation unit (SEAL Team 6) for more than a couple of hours. If they had pictures they could use to persuade those who are undecided in the gun debate, they would use them in a heartbeat.

    For them NOT to use them speaks more to the truth than anything that has been said. The fact that no reporter on the scene was able to get any images of anything also speaks volumes. It isn’t just our 2nd Amendment at risk here folks…. the 1st is also in question.

    • avatarblinkypete says:

      Was unapologeticlyidiotic taken?

      People like you are a far greater hurdle for us to overcome than anti’s. Your incoherent rabble makes the lot of us look like lunatics, and your truther propaganda pushes us ever further away from the actual truth.

  19. avatarmoontree says:

    I would call a 30 round mag a “standard” round magazine…pmag is the leader and the 30 is the most common by far. now a 100 round drum magazine is a “high capacity” mag

    • avatarblinkypete says:

      One of the problems is that standard capacity varies gun by gun. 15 for a G19, 17 for an FNS-9, and 20 or 30 for an AR. The anti dialog of 10 is much easier for laypersons to understand.

      • avatarBrian says:

        Yeah, people outside the gun community:

        1. Get numbers more than functionality

        2. Are more likely to buy into a “Why does anyone need more than X bullets” argument

        3. Are unlikely to agree that civilians need to have as many rounds as police

        This means we have our work cut out for us to educate people about why magazine limits are unlikely to do much good and are more likely to get good people hurt.

        Unfortunately we will probably need to wait for the current madness to pass before most people are willing to listen.

  20. avatarmike says:

    So much for conspiracies. This ain’t about faking a moon landing folks. We got real innocent victims here…. show some respect!

  21. avatarcreeper says:

    The Sig Sauer P226 9 mil. holds fifteen rounds. It would be outlawed under the “high capacity magazine” ban.

  22. avatartheBuckWheat says:

    If we can limit the number of rounds in a firearm magazine, we can limit the number of pages in a Playboy magazine. The same utilitarian logic that allows infringing upon the first, allows infringing upon the second, so to speak.

    • avatarblinkypete says:

      Ha! They can have my playboys when they pull them from my warm, sticky hands!

      TMI?

    • avatarBrett says:

      Shouldn’t we get to the bottom of the story – the Truth – then?

      • avatarBlinkyPete says:

        Brett, we do have the truth. You aren’t looking for the truth, and you aren’t asking questions. You’re making assertions and seeking out kernels of perceived evidence that appear to support a narrative you created before the event happened. You have zero actual evidence to support your version of events, and if you actually believe that’s how it happened you are terminally disconnected with reality.

  23. avatarjustathinker says:

    It took two months to list 4 guns? And they still got one name wrong. There’s a confidence-builder for you.

  24. avatarMGSgt Retired says:

    How about, first of all, we stop speculating and start paying attention to the victims families, they need our support, and flapping your gums about this is not doing that. But, while you are on it. Re-read that supreme court decision. It says Short Rifles. Most ARMALITE RIFLEs, or AR for the real name, are NOT Assault Rifles, they are defensive in nature unless in the hands of a moron on a mission. Eat some sand and you will know that. Most of you have never served, and do not have the knowledge to know what such a scene does to the mind. You were not in Iraq, you are not in Afghanistan, so back up off this rant and do your homework. Most of all, I didn’t serve my country to see idiots with guns kill children, and I will be one Veteran that will stand with all my brothers and sisters to insure it will happen less and less. Dam the liberal media, they are more to blame than anything for heorising the perpetrators of these crimes. How about the media be told to highlight the suffering of the families and WE THE PEOPLE take back control of our government? I know what I am prepared to do if confronted, what are YOU prepared to do? I am not telling you to run out and buy a pistol or rifle, not unless you intend to become proficient in both range fire and situational awareness. In my 20 years, I handled thousands of small arms, I taught many troops, and not one of those firearms was EVER fired by itself, not one jumped off the rack and said, I’m gonna kill people. People kill people, and sometimes it is a required to preserve life. This 100% disabled, honorably served and retired Veteran is prepared to save YOUR life, again. What are YOU going to do for your fellow Americans. Dam the conversation on magazine capacity. You need ONE round to stop a single threat, and TWO for two. IF you are prepared. Are you?

  25. avatarelnonio says:

    Scalia says Heller “does not protect those weapons not typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes, such as short-barreled shotguns.”

    The irony does not escape me.

    SBRs and SBSs are not typically possessed by law-abiding citizens because of the red tap and the $200 stamp. Criminal, unencumbered by these, can do as they please. However, as the $200 is eaten away by inflation, I suspect more and more of us will go that route (yes, I’ve already put my money where my mouth is), thus making them “typically possessed” by common folks.

  26. avatarAlan Rose says:

    So according the the official report the AR only had one magazine, and there were no magazines for the pistols?

  27. avatarlive2ride says:

    Now someone please explain why Adam Lanza’s date of death is listed as 12/13/2012 in the Social Security Death Index.

  28. avatarTheSleeperHasAwakened says:

    Something bugs me that they found a Glock 10mm. That pistol just seems out of place amongst what was found.

    • avatarBrian says:

      From what I have heard the mother was a “prepper” convinced society was going to collapse. A 10mm could have been that first panic purchase when she felt she needed a gun “right now” or got a good deal on it.

    • avatarblinkypete says:

      Hmmm… well, since perceived oddities usually suggest massive government conspiracies I’ve got to say you’re onto something here.

  29. avatarBigazzmarine says:

    It still don’t change the fact that MY GUNS have hurt no one in the 38 years plus that I’ve owned them

    • avatarBrian says:

      And if we lived in a rational world that would be enough; unfortunately we don’t. We need to convince the middle ground that we, and our AR-15s, magazines, etc. aren’t a threat (both because they aren’t, and because we need their votes). Our advantage is that logically we are right, our disadvantage is that we don’t get a fair hearing in the press and that people don’t appreciate logic as much in the wake of tragedy.

      We should start thinking about what the next step is in terms of winning hearts and minds.

  30. avatarM.William says:

    Only one (1) 30 round “high capacity” magazine was found with the rifle?
    According to the coroner the childeren were each shot between 3 and 11 times with .223 cal. rifle; a total of between 60- 220 rounds fired. Witnesses have reported hearing “…hundreds of shots fired” .
    When did the shooter have time to reload the 30 round magazine ???

    • avatarelnonio says:

      M. William: it doesn’t say one (1) mag, that’s your interpretation. At the most, you can blame Lt. Vance of not enumerating the number, or omtting the “s” in magazine. Anyone that has worked with law enforcement knows that, by and large, they aren’t Pulitzer prize writers…

      Another interpretation is that since the list is a list of weapons seized at the scene, it need not list the magazines that were also left behind since, by themselves, they are not weapons.

      • avatarSue says:

        Nice distinction elnonio, thanks. Anyone who does a basic search of the incident knows that they reported recovering several 30 rnd mags, some half full (having them suspect FPS video gamer mentality).

  31. avatarBHirsh says:

    “So, even if we wanted to ban the guns specifically used in this attack, the Supreme Court says it can’t legally be done.”

    EXACTLY.

    For now, select-fire weapons are water under the bridge, and not likely to be recovered because the precedent is now “long standing”. But semi-autos?

    HANDS OFF!

    • avatarBrian says:

      I wouldn’t be so sure. There are reasons (discussed above) that the Court may treat rifles differently from semi-auto pistols. Additionally, by the time an AWB case got to SCOTUS it might be a different looking SCOTUS that is less favorably disposed to the 2A.

      Relying on the Court to save you is a high risk strategy. Much better to avoid the laws in the first place and work to improve the political climate to prevent such laws being proposed in the future.

  32. avatarJJM123 says:

    Still waiting for ballistics results of what calibers were discharged inside the school and if they all match those weapons recovered.

    • avatarblinkypete says:

      Yes, and if they don’t please make sure you follow up with the secret leaders behind this conspiracy on their foolish error.

  33. avatarGaines E Bruce says:

    What did the reports say about the number of Magazines found? This is important due to other stuff the police have said.

    • avatarblinkypete says:

      The report has been released, and there are like 20 other comments on this. In short, it’s likely he used several magazines and apparently reloaded frequently.

  34. avatarSchnoozeMedia says:

    Sandy Hook school incident …
    Cs (crime scene : Sandy Hook + Lanza residence) and investigative information that should be publicly reported :
    1) Forensic toxicology and medical history of the perpetrator.
    2) Results of GSR (gun shot residue) test on the perpetrator.
    3) Cs layout – bodies, weapons, spent shells, bullet holes, etc.
    4) Sales receipts and custody chain of all items, before and after the incident -
    guns, ammo, bullet proof vests, camo clothes, vehicle, etc.
    5) Activities and movements prior to the incident.
    6) Archived video surveillance of the cs area .
    7) Phone calls (perp, school, neighbors, etc.).
    8) Witness affidavits and depositions.
    9) Police list of witnesses, related persons, and analysis of how the incident transpired.
    10) Independent analysis and corroboration of facts.

    Where is all of this information and continued investigative reporting ?
    The schnooze media is missing in action as usual.
    National political debate (opportunistic redirection) may have already prejudiced the police investigation and ‘official’ report.

  35. avatarBob says:

    The Second Amendment is not about “self defense” it is about the people’s right to keep and bear arms ‘common to the military’ at the time. This gives the Secondamendment the ability to be current with what is commonly available and in use by Military forces. The anti gunner’s want to make certain we cannot properly arm to protect ourselves from an over bearing Government such as what we have today

  36. avatarBrian says:

    Did the police say how many AR-15 magazines they found in the school?

  37. avatarArnulfo Tibus says:

    Beautifully said Kory. Just perfect!!!

  38. avatarwayne says:

    more than 120 rounds were fired. nothing about where the empty clips were and how many. and how many of what size brass.

  39. Pingback: Sandy Hook One Year Later: False Flag Event Unresolved

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