2A Supporters Swarm New Jersey Gun Control Hearings

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Reader SB sends this report on the Trenton gun control bill hearing yesterday:

The Law & Public Safety Committee of the New Jersey Assembly (lower house) was scheduled to hold hearings on 24 docketed civilian disarmament bills yesterday. Yes, they planned to hear comment on 23 complex, highly contentious pieces of legislation in a two-hour window. And they only put these bills on the schedule after 1,000 or so people came out in the pouring cold freezing rain last Friday to protest. So with less than a week’s notice, we had to take off from work, leave our families and other responsibilities twice. Trenton is also very far for many people, it is not centrally located . . .

Roughly 450-500 people showed up and from what we could tell, the anti-gun Assembly Members were overwhelmed by the presence we projected. About 150 of us were not allowed inside because the ran out of room. They had to get us an emergency permit to protest. There were two overflow rooms. However, the hearing was little more than a kangaroo court. I wasn’t there, so I can’t speak verbatim. I believe the video of the preceding will be up on the New Jersey Assembly website in due time.

I want to say, to my surprise, the NJ State Troopers in the Assembly building were very friendly and accommodating They provided us with an American flag, and a podium with a microphone. They attempted to get the audio of the proceeding piped outside, but that never happened.

And reader Chewbacca Defense got his hairy paws on the bills and sends this summary:

1. A588 Spencer, L. Grace/Coutinho, Albert+2.

This bill extends the definition of prohibited ammunition. Hollow points and armor piercing rounds are already banned. Here is the added text; “…or (3) any person, other than a law enforcement officer, who knowingly has in his possession handgun ammunition which (a) has a full metal jacket and an ogive with a steel penetrator tip followed by an aluminum core and is 1 therefore capable of breaching or penetrating body armor, or (b) after testing, the Attorney General determines poses a threat to the safety and well being of law enforcement officers because of the materials, be they metallic or nonmetallic, used in its composition or because its ogive, core or jacket are of a design, construction or formulation which makes it capable of breaching or penetrating body armor…”

The scary part is the ability for the AG to make a decision on what type of ammo poses a threat to public safety and is thus banned.

2. A1116 Fuentes, Angel/Spencer

Establishes 180 day prohibition on purchase of a handgun for certain individuals who fail to report loss or theft of firearm. It says this is from the date of conviction. What do you want to bet it effectively turns into the date of being charged? You have to apply for a handgun permit and receive the okay from the local police station (takes up to a month, then permit expires in 90 days). Will they give you the permit if they see you have been charged with a crime?

3. A1329 Greenwald, Louis D./Quijano

The bill is NJ’s AWB, pretty much a copy of the ’94 federal AWB. The proposed edits reduces magazine capacity from 15 rounds to 10 rounds. I don’t see anything about grandfathering, either for or against. Does that imply grandfathering is not allowed? The bill would take effect on the first day of the third month following enactment.

4. A1387 Wilson, Gilbert L./Johnson, Gordon M.+11 [Positive, I think]

I think this is a good one, if I understand it correctly. The only addition is this phrase multiple times; “Nothing in subsection b. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 and any ordinance adopted pursuant to section 2 or 3 of P.L. , c. (C. )(pending before the Legislature as this bill) shall be construed to prevent…” I’m not exactly sure what this means, I think it’s saying that if you’re passing through a school zone on your way to the range then they can’t charge you for illegal possession on a gun free zone? [ed: NJ is already a gun free zone with may issue]

5. A1613 Bramnick, Jon M./Johnson, Gordon M.

This looks like a new bill. From the summary; “This bill establishes a 15-member Educational Security Task Force to assist the State Board of Education in developing Statewide security guidelines and standards for New Jersey school districts. The goal of the guidelines and standards will be to empower public schools to develop plans, procedures, and tools to provide safe and secure learning environments for students and district employees.” Read on through the rest of the summary for more details. It creates a task force to come up with recommendations is the short of it.

6. A3510 Johnson, Gordon M./Vainieri Huttle, Valerie

“Requires proof of firearms safety training as a condition for issuance of firearms purchaser ID cards and permits to purchase handguns.” A FID (Firearms Identification Card; purchaser’s card) applicant must provide “evidence of successfully completing a firearms safety class or course of a type approved by the superintendent or has received such training through law enforcement or military service. The course or class may be offered by the National Rifle Association, a State or local law enforcement agency, junior college, college, university, firearms training school, or any other entity approved by the superintendent. The superintendent shall prescribe the manner and form of the evidence of qualification an applicant is required to present pursuant to this paragraph.

7. A3583 Wilson, Gilbert L.

Creates a task force, looks like the same thing as A1613 above.

8. A3645 Greenwald, Louis D./Eustace, Timothy J.

This is a new bill. Bans internet sales of ammo, requires face-to-face transactions with an FFL. Doing otherwise would result in a “crime of the fourth degree [which] is punishable by imprisonment for a term of up to 18 months, a fine of up to $10,000, or both.” It also exempts LEO’s and collectors transferring “ammunition which is recognized as being historical in nature or of historical significance.”

9. A3646 Greenwald, Louis D.

This is a new bill. It establishes an ammunition regulatory scheme. I’m not really sure what this does, since it states things you already have to do. You already need your FID and a photo ID to purchase ammo in person, which is what it describes. Perhaps the punishments are new/stricter? “The bill provides that violators are guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. A crime of the fourth degree is punishable by imprisonment for a term of up to 18 months, a fine of up to $10,000, or both.”

10. A3659 Barnes, Peter J./Johnson, Gordon M.

Revises definition of banned destructive devices to include .50 caliber firearms. “A person violating this provision would be guilty of a crime of the third degree…punishable by a fine of up to $15,000, imprisonment for three to five years, or both.” The bill allows you 1 year to get rid of your firearm if it is banned under this provision. Also, does anyone know of an instance where a .50 caliber was used in a crime?

This policy bothers me, it’s the same thing Cumo did in NY with mags over 7 rounds. They’re basically saying these devices are evil and you shouldn’t be allowed to have them, but as long as they’re not in my state I don’t care. It’s very hypocritical to claim that they are a problem and then force individuals to dump said “problem” onto another state.

11. A3666 Cryan, Joseph/O’Donnell, Jason+1

This is a new bill. It bans mail order ammo sales, same as A3645.

12. A3668 Jasey, Mila M./McKeon, John F.+3

This is a new bill prohibiting investment by State of pension and annuity funds in companies manufacturing, importing, and selling assault firearms for civilian use.

13. A3687 Stender, Linda/Fuentes, Angel Firearm id card

Disqualifies person named on federal Terrorist Watchlist from obtaining firearms identification card or permit to purchase handgun. TTAG has previously laid out the issues with this; http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/01/foghorn/feinstein-lautenberg-introduce-bill-that-would-ban-those-on-terrorist-watchlist-from-buying-guns/.

14. A3717 Lampitt, Pamela R./Singleton, Troy

Requires NJ to submit mental health records to the NICS system.

15. A3748 O’Donnell, Jason/Mainor, Charles

Requires NICS on private sales. Of course this needs to be done through/at an FFL and does not create a system or way for individuals to call it in. “A person who violates the provisions of the bill is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. A fourth degree crime is punishable by a term of imprisonment of up to 18 months, a fine of up to $10,000, or both.” Immediate family is exempt and “is defined in the bill as a spouse, domestic partner, child, or step-child.”

16. A3750 Cryan, Joseph/O’Donnell, Jason

Requires that within 180 days of passing that an electronic real time reporting system for tracking ammunition sales be implemented. The info would be available to LEOs in real time, but have no fear, it protects the information from the public. This sounds extremely complicated and expensive to put into place. It’s basically ammunition registration, and if you’re buying ammo you must also have a gun so I also see it as back door gun registration.

17. A3754 Cryan, Joseph/O’Donnell, Jason

Requires firearms seizure when a mental health professional determines a patient poses a threat to themselves or others. “If a licensed practitioner of psychology, psychiatry, medicine, nursing, clinical social work or marriage counseling who is currently providing treatment services determines, in the exercise of reasonable professional judgment, that the patient is likely to engage in conduct that would result in serious harm to self or others, the licensee shall report, as soon as practicable to the Attorney General” at which time you will receive an unexpected armed presence at your door to relieve you of your firearms.

18. A3772 Eustace, Timothy J./Wagner, Connie

Requires that FID’s be renewed every 5 years. Currently there is no expiration date, you would just lose it if you do something wrongful to lose it.

19. A3788 Rible, David P./Dancer, Ronald S.+6 [Positive]

“Codifies regulation exempting firearms records from State’s open public records law; abolishes common law right of access to these records.” Prevents papers from publishing your information like what happened in NY.

20. A3796 Mainor, Charles

This new bill provides a 90 day period following enactment to allow individuals to turn in illegally possessed firearms without being punished. It’s basically a gun buy-back, but does not appear to compensate you in any way for your donation.

21. A3797 Mainor, Charles

This new bill requires law enforcement to submit seized firearm information to the National Ballistics

Identification Network, to cross check with any crimes. It also requires a live fire test and reporting of the ballistic information. Will they check guns voluntarily turned in as per A3796 above? What if it is associated with a crime, A3796 says you won’t be charged with illegal possession of a firearm when you turn it in, but I don’t see any reason they wouldn’t still come back to charge you with whatever crime the firearm was involved in if that is found to be the case.

22. ACR180 Greenwald, Louis D./Oliver, Sheila Y.

This new memo bill (if that’s what you want to call it) “Urges President and Congress of United States to enact legislation enforcing stricter firearms control measures.” This is basically a nice letter stating support and urging enactment of all of Obama’s proposed gun control measures. It’s just a pretty memo pandering to the president.

23. AR143 Quijano, Annette/Cryan, Joseph+2

This new memo bill “expresses support for gun buyback programs established by the Attorney General of this State and encourages more of these programs to be held throughout the State.

6 Gun buyback programs held in this State, including Camden, have proven successful in reducing the number of weapons on the street being used to commit crimes.”

24. AR144 Oliver, Sheila Y.

This new memo bill “Urges Governor Christie’s Administration not to apply for annual exemption from requirements of federal Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act of 2008.” I’m not an expert on this one. The law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Parity_Act), according to the American Psychological Association, “…requires health insurance to cover both mental and physical health equally. Under this law, insurance companies can no longer arbitrarily limit the number of hospital days or outpatient treatment sessions, or assign higher co-payments or deductibles for those in need of psychological services…” (http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/parity-law.aspx). So as I understand it, the law requires insurance companies to cover mental health treatment and keep the costs down relative to physical health treatment costs. If it was not extended those costs would go up. If they go up people won’t get appropriate mental health, or they just won’t seek it at all. If gun control advocates want people with mental health issues reported to NICS, wouldn’t they want as many people to be screened by mental health professionals as possible? Making such treatment cost prohibitive seems counter intuitive to civilian disarmament measures, right?

55 Responses to 2A Supporters Swarm New Jersey Gun Control Hearings

  1. avatarMartin says:

    I would love to see a color coded map of the United States showing which states are gun friendly and which are beseeched by the civilian disarmament movement

    • avatarMark says:

      New England, the West coast and Illinois are pretty much the places to avoid at all costs.

      • avatarMartin says:

        Makes me glad ohio is still gun friendly at least for now

      • avatarJan says:

        I think my dear state of California is pretty much the only anti gun state in the west coast, correct me if I’m wrong.

      • avatarJan says:

        I think my dear state of California is pretty much the only anti gun state in the west coast. Somebody correct or verify this.

      • avatarBrian S says:

        Oregon & Washington are safe (for now)

      • avatarCasey T says:

        Washington and Oregon are pretty gun friendly right now. In fact, Washington has a preemption law and the right to bear arms is in the State Constitution as well.

      • avatarJess in VT says:

        Vermont and Maine are pretty gun friendly, that’s why the rest of New England hates us.

      • avatarSee This Also says:

        Isn’t Vermont one of the most gun friendly states in the US?

      • avatarMike the Hops Farmer says:

        “New England, the West coast and Illinois are pretty much the places to avoid at all costs.”
        Would that also make them the easiest to invade from neighboring pro-2A states and return liberty to the people? I keed, I keed.

      • avatarMatt in SD says:

        We should avoid three of the most free state in the country? You do know that Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont are in New England and New York is not, right?

      • avatarTruthIsTreason says:

        New Hampshire and Vermont are not anti-gun. Not sure about Maine but I’d bet that they have some sense there. I think that the disgusting liberal states with anti-gun morons deserve to have a giant sucking sound of intelligent people fleeing those hell-holes. Let them be defenseless and see how much fun it is for all of them.

    • avatarpat says:

      Just follow the libtard blue. If ya voted for the ‘mad monkeyer to the Constitution’, ‘kid Kenyan’ a la Barry Obummer, you get what ya get.
      Elections have consequences, dummies. I hope the lesson was learned, the hard way, and you wised up for election 14′ and beyond.
      Liberalism is a mental disorder.

  2. avatarCliff says:

    “Requires proof of firearms safety training as a condition for issuance of firearms purchaser ID cards and permits to purchase handguns.” A FID (Firearms Identification Card; purchaser’s card) applicant must provide “evidence of successfully completing a firearms safety class or course of a type approved by the superintendent or has received such training through law enforcement or military service. The course or class may be offered by the National Rifle Association, a State or local law enforcement agency, junior college, college, university, firearms training school, or any other entity approved by the superintendent. The superintendent shall prescribe the manner and form of the evidence of qualification an applicant is required to present pursuant to this paragraph.

    In other words, The government gets to set the standards as to who is allowed to exercise their Second Amendment rights. They can change those standards and/or make them as draconian as they please, AND set the cost of the training and subsequent license. This is exactly the opposite of the intent of the Second Amendment, changes this from an inalienable individual right to a government controlled privilage, AND it is Poll Tax.

    • avatarMark N. says:

      Not quite. Ralph can tell you the details of the NRA gun safety program–they are not onerous. All the state gets to dictate is the form of the certificate establishing completion of the training requirement.

  3. avatarBrian S says:

    holy crap, more spray and pray legislation

    On #17. (A3754) I like how they’re basically saying it’s ok for people who exhibit dangerous and violent behavior to do what ever they want, so long as it’s not with a gun.

  4. avatarDaniel Silverman says:

    Gee and here I was thinking California was bad…
    Welcome to the circus everyone!

  5. avatarJMS says:

    Wow the penalties for #8 and #9 are rough!

    #10 — is that ALL “.50 caliber” ammunition, or just .50 BMG? For example, CA has long-banned .50 BMG but you can have .50 AE, .50 Beowulf, .500 S&W, etc…

    And #17 gives a NURSE the power to strip somebody of a constitutionally protected right!?!?!

  6. avatarCaptain Catsup says:

    Submit mental health records to the NICS system? Makes federally and ethically confidential healthcare information public! If I get depressed, I wont be able to get care for fear of public exposure and loss of my 2A rights.

  7. avatarNora Craig says:

    Friends, this was a set-up from the git go. They never intended to listen to those testifying. I got a tad bit irate about that (g)..
    .
    PLEASE, if you want to make a difference get up, get involved, and work your tails off this election cycle in your district. All 120 legislative seats are up for grabs and we need people to go be primary candidates against the liberals who’d destroy our constitutional liberties.
    .
    It’s time we turned this beast around. Melt Senator Sweeney’s phones so these bills never hit the floor for a vote. He has aspirations for Governor some day. Let him know he’ll never get anywhere unless he supports the constitutional rights of the people.
    .
    WELL DONE to all who were there. So proud of y’all.
    .
    Sincerely,
    Nora Craig

  8. avatartdiinva says:

    New Jersey is a small state and I bet Pensylvania and Delaware ammo dealers are just salivating at all the new business they are going to get. Do any of the bill prohibit a person from buying ammunition out of state? Are they going to post troopers outside of Cabella’s looking for New Jersey plates?

    • avatarMark N. says:

      Doesn’t matter where you buy it, but when they’ve banned the possession of HPs and “penetrator” FMJs, ti doesn’t really matter all that much. All you get are standard FMJs and wad cutters.

  9. avatarDigDouggler says:

    Audio of the hearing is now available (I’m not aware of any video):

    http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/media/archive_audio2.asp?KEY=ALP&SESSION=2012

    Wednesday, February 13, 2013 10:00 AM Committee Room 4 – It’s currently at the top of the list at the link.

  10. avatarNelson says:

    ARREST EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE MOTHERF*CKERS, NOW!

    Sedition! TREASON! Perjuring their Constitutional Oaths!!!

    Idiots, ALL of them… or a Machiavellian Fabian Socialist Cabal. Take a pick, the results are the same: you become a slave.

    Is there bottom to any of this?

  11. avatarDigDouggler says:

    Some highlights – Chairman Mainor proclaims this is “this meeting is my meeting” in response to Norah Craig (Navy Vet) complaining about him not paying attention, and a big verbal shoutdown follows. He states her time is up, she replies “Your time is up in November” – 3:53:00 (3 hours 35 minutes)

    04:30:00 – Citizen reads from the NJ constitution passage on ownership of weapons and asks representatives if they recognize the passage. None respond.

  12. avatarElliotte says:

    On 15, Immediate family is exempt and “is defined in the bill as a spouse, domestic partner, child, or step-child.” This would be something to check in the wording (which probably would need a lawyer’s reading), but it only lists child, not sibling or parent. We both are out of college and live in separate counties, but I still consider my brother part of my immediate family.

    It’s bad legislation overall, but this kind of awkward wording is doubly bad.

  13. avatarAPBTFan says:

    In this sea of anti-gun proposals us Arizonans now have a bill in the House to reinforce a previous one preventing LE from destroying seized firearms. Instead they must sell them to local FFL’s and be “forced” to enjoy a little bit of extra moolah back into their budget.

  14. avatarAmagi says:

    I was there outside both days, out in the cold just to be politically marginalized. It’s disheartening. I even live in Philadelphia and I am a legal resident of PA. There were hundreds of people there. There should have been thousands. There should have been traffic problems, there should have been space shortages, there should have been crowd control, they should have been able to hear us from outside in the assembly room. I want them to know how pissed off we are. I want Charles Mainor to have trouble sleeping at night.

    I am a New Jersey Native and I crossed the river 5 years ago. I was thinking seriously about moving back to be closer to friends and family and these recent developments make me very nervous about my future decisions.

    It’s sad that more people don’t get angry enough to take a day off from work and sit in the cold.

    Millions of American Servicemen and women died so we can have the rights we have today and they can’t even be bothered to take a day off from work? It’s sickening.

  15. There is a stop gun violence rally at the green in Morristown NJ today at 5. If I can get out of work in time I’m going to try to go check it out. I live about a mile away. Here is the event page on facebook;

    http://www.facebook.com/#!/events/470300589700538/

  16. avatar-Rob says:

    Any word on whether Christie would sign any of these, should they pass the legislature?

  17. Do you guys agree with my interpretation of #24, or am I just going crazy? It sounds to me like the opposite of what gun control advocates would want.

    • avatarMark N. says:

      The way I read it, NJ has in the past applied for and obtained an exemption of the requirement that its health policies provide mental health coverage to the same level as hospital insurance. This bill would stop that exemption so that people in NJ could get mental health coverage.

    • avatarMy Name Is Bob says:

      I’m absolutely sure it’s a trap. In other news, I’m more and more glad I moved to PA EVERY DAY. Chewbacca- best of luck in your quest to turn back that BS they’re currently trying to pass.

  18. avatarSGC says:

    Good luck to our brothers in arms up north! It pains me to read this kinda stuff every day…

  19. avatarSilver says:

    I grew up in NJ, I can tell you right now it’s a lost cause. I remember when I was young and still new at all this, I walked into a sporting goods store where all the ammo was locked up in cages behind the counter and asked the guy what I had to do to get a gun (a question in itself I now realize was ludicrous that I as an American even had to ask). He said, “Drive west ’til you get to America.”

  20. As a few others have said, Washington is good, as least for now. A CCW is easy to get, I carry open during the summer (you can’t even do that in Texas!), I have a suppressor, and there’s no dumb law limiting magazine capacity.

    • avatarCarlosT says:

      For now, but there are big fights coming. An assault weapons ban has been introduced, the preemption law will be targeted, and probably lots more anti-gun legislation is on the Seattle Democrats’ wishlist. I don’t know how solid the Senate is, so I’m not counting on us being home and dry.

    • avatarKyle Torngren says:

      Aye, Washington state is an island of calm sanity compared to majority of the west coast, IE, California. I hear Oregon isn’t bad either.

      We even legalized the use of suppressors a couple years ago. Previously, you could own, possess, transfer & trade (within the requirements of NFA, of course), but not USE. If a park ranger rolled up to you while you were shooting at one of the old quarries out by sultan or concrete, and you had a suppressor even with you, you’d be busted.

      I can confirm what Jay Williams said; CCW is easy to get, shall issue and no classes or anything beyond a background check, open carry is de facto legal, and we haven’t got any of the bullshit “assault weapon” crap, or laws against normal-size mags, or any other crap.

      It’s kind of interesting how this state’s politics work. The greater Seattle area is very liberal and densely populated, and is balanced out by the rest of the state, including Spokane and everywhere else south of Olympia or west of the mountains; areas which are more right-leaning, more sparsely populated, but much greater in area. Seattle area keeps us liberal in the right areas, and everywhere else keeps us oppositely-liberal in the other areas. IE, the force of the Seattle-regions population just pushed through legalization of marijuana and gay marriage, and the farmers and blue-collar folks that make up the Eastern two-thirds of the state keep our gun control minimal. These are just recent examples, of course.

      Can you tell I love my home? I can’t imagine living anywhere else in the country, except maybe Montana.

  21. avatarPeter says:

    Sounds as if the intent of the bill is to have Christie allow the Mental Health coverage to take effect. My understanding is that the waiver allows the state to keep things the way they were before Obamacare.

  22. avataruncommon_sense says:

    From the article, “They had to get us an emergency permit to protest.”[emphasis mine]

    What?!?!?!? Since when does anyone need a permit to demonstrate outside of a government building?

    “We the People” are not kindergarten children and do not need a permission slip to exercise our fundamental rights. This has to be our message to the masses.

  23. avatarLance says:

    Grass Roots ACTIVISM KEEP IT UP.

  24. avatarTotenglocke says:

    In other words, after reading over those bills, Democrats gonna Democrat.

  25. avatarNazgul says:

    The Gun Prohibitionists are in a contest across the nation to see who can come up with the most onerous legislation to harass the public. I don’t know which is worse: the legislatures making these laws or the public that voted them in.

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