Why Did It Take the Cops 20 Minutes to Get to Sandy Hook Elementary School?

TTAG reader Rydak emails:

According to media reports (e.g., CNN’s timeline), it took the police 20 minutes to arrive at Sandy Hook from the first 911 call, which specifically when out as “Shots Fired.” I am a police officer of 24 years and not one to take unreasonable criticism of police lightly, so I’m not trying to bash the police. But I also know that where blame is due….well, it’s due. As a police officer, you hear a call for shots fired at a school, and it take 20 minutes to get there? Something is wrong here . . .

Even a person who has no knowledge of firearms or their use against unarmed people, would have to reasonably agree that if a deranged killer has 20 minutes to do their horrible killing unfettered, in a gun free zone no less, the results would have been just the same or even worst if he was armed with a single shot break open shotgun.

I would like very much to know where the police were when the call came out and what took them so long to respond. Considering that according to American Thinker their station house is only two minutes away.

Just a quick context thing about the station house distance . . .

One of the main tenants of policing is that crime don’t occur in the police station, so don’t be there. (To encourage officers to get out and stay visible and proactive.) As such you won’t have many or even any officers in many police stations and even if you do, they are likely sans vehicle.

So there is no telling where the units were on that day. But still, they have their own dept don’t they? The State police were heavily involved, I wonder why? It’s common to call them in if your crime scene guys don’t have the equipment or skill, but they seemed to have it from the beginning.

There are plenty of questions surrounding this tragedy. Before we go banning guns, we need to address the “totality” of the circumstances.

[ED: Google Maps puts the distance at 2.3 miles estimating a seven-minute journey time]

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About Robert Farago

Robert Farago is the Publisher of The Truth About Guns (TTAG). He started the site to explore the ethics, morality, business, politics, culture, technology, practice, strategy, dangers and fun of guns.

132 Responses to Why Did It Take the Cops 20 Minutes to Get to Sandy Hook Elementary School?

  1. avatarDirk Diggler says:

    and where is the nearest donut shop? Just asking.

    • avatarDoug says:

      The local PD really should be forthcoming as to this, as it only makes them look worse not to, but if they won’t, I’m sure some reader can plot on the map all the local diners and Dunkin’ Donuts locations (hey, it IS New England!) And some of the locals may be able to ‘crowd-source’ in the locations where and when they saw the town officers that morning!

      Please pardon the dark levity, but btw, as it is wintah in New England, I presume it is also town meeting time, if this town has them. Should be quite an interesting town meeting this yeah. Ayuh. Media really should be in attendance to repoaht.

  2. avatarJoe Sixpack says:

    “Google Maps puts the distance at 2.3 miles estimating a seven-minute journey time”

    That’s seven minutes under normal traffic conditions, including stop lights, stop signs, speed limits, etc… The police could likely make the same trip in under 3 minutes averaging just 40mph.

  3. avatarJoshinGA says:

    When you need help, the police are only 20 minutes away. This is a abysmal response time, especially for a “shots fired” call. Maybe we could have one of the resident cops here clarify, but when you get a “shots fired” call on the radio, isnt that the time to hit the lights and sirens and book it to the call?

    • avatarIn Memphis says:

      “… isnt that the time to hit the lights and sirens and book it to the call?”

      To be fair, lights and sirens save maybe a minute or two in response time depending on the area you are in. Granted a police officer can probably get away with a little bit more than I can in an ambulance or fire apparatus but you are still supposed to obey all traffic laws. You can break them with “due regard to safety.” Going through red lights and stop signs, you’re still required to stop and if traffic does not, you do.

      This is not to say that emergency response does not make a difference but if you’re doing it right then it all just comes down to other drivers and the kind of area your in. The other issue is that if you’re in an accident while responding emergency, it does not matter who is really at fault, YOU as the emergency responder ARE at fualt.

      By the way, the severity or urgency of the call is no excuse to go balls to the wall in a response. That may sound heartless and cold but you cant help someone if you are dead. You especially can not help an MCI (mass casualty incident) by tying up recources.

      • avatar16V says:

        By the way, the severity or urgency of the call is no excuse to go balls to the wall in a response.

        Fire and rescue are not cops. They operate under different expectations and goals. I have no idea about your local PD, but in the few geographically diverse major metros I still have friends/relatives in, that is simply not true.

        Rolling code is not always the same. There are times when all the stops come out – officer under fire and officer down are the most easily understood. Somebody pulls a gun at a Chuck E Cheese fistfight is another.

        If you think they don’t roll code harder to those than some run-of-the-mill armed robbery, or domestic disturbance, I suggest some cop friends.

        • avatarIn Memphis says:

          16V – Im not saying they dont “roll harder,” but police or not emergency response laws are the same across the board.

        • avatar16V says:

          In Memphis,
          You’re right they are usually the same within each state. AFAIK, most states have the basically the same statutory language about ‘as necessary for safe operation’ and ‘not endangering life and property’.

          My larger point was just that even though the emergency vehicle regs are the same, an FF or EMT has a different set of priorities than a cop. As an EMT, that 30 second difference to on scene won’t ultimately matter that much, esp as your backup is 8+ minutes out if you stuff it. There’s not a lot that’s fixable in the field (odds wise) that lives or dies on that 30 sec window. Even more so with a structure fire. So FF and EMT are always (rightfully) more cautious that the police.

        • avatarAlan Rose says:

          The harder you roll the better your chances of crashing, which means you never get there, or kill someone else in the process.

        • avatar16V says:

          Alan Rose,

          No doubt that is true. But if you’ve ever been in a patrol car when ‘officer down’ hits the radio, or seen one pass you under that circumstance, you know that there are different degrees of “fast”.

          Let’s be honest. Some guy you don’t know from Adam is in a standard everyday pickle v. your buddy/coworker of “x” years is in deep caca. You’re code for both, which one do you ignore most prudence for?

          Just human nature. That and no matter the 12V71T and short gearing on a pumper or F450 ambulance (let alone the Braun Furions clogging my metro), FF/EMT vehicles are dog slow. They make time by pushing traffic aside and blowing traffic signals. A diesel Rabbit would get there faster with lights and siren.

    • avatarIn Memphis says:

      Didnt get to edit on time so consider this an addendum:

      20 minutes, regardless of what I said above, is a rediculous response time almost anywhere except a very rural area

  4. “[ED: and Google Maps puts the distance at 2.3 miles estimating a seven-minute journey time]”

    And that’s without sirens ignoring traffic lights.

  5. avatarBig Jack says:

    The whole deal stinks to high heaven. If folks can’t see that, they’ve got problems..

  6. avatarCoryJ says:

    I’ve responded ‘Code 3′ from similar and even further distances and it took less than 5 minutes, this includes crossing through two major intersections during moderate traffic times. None of those times was it as serious as a ‘shots fired’ call at an elementary school.

    I can’t imagine what the reason would be that it takes 20 minutes to get to a ‘shots fired’ call at an elementary school.

  7. avatarstateisevil says:

    Yet there are people who say 10 round mags would have stopped him.

    We must not let the lies stand.

  8. avatarjmark says:

    Sad. By the time cops got there it was over. Something doesn’t add up. Did it take 20 minutes for them to gather in numbers and go in? I remember them saying they went right in. What weapons were actually used? It was pistols until the coroner announced a high powered rifle was used. When will the actual reports be released to the public? Sorry I just don’t trust the liberal press or some of the people in Washington & their agenda.

  9. avatarDan says:

    The whole thing stinks to me. No one’s talking about the second shooter they chased in the woods either. WTH.

    • avatarSkyler says:

      A second shooter? Really? Really? Don’t just toss out conspiracy bombs like that. If you have something to back up such a claim, put it out there. Otherwise, go hang out with people who think the Jews were responsible for 9/11.

    • avatarLemming says:

      Because there wasn’t a second shooter. The “camo pants/dark shirt guy who said ‘I didn’t do it’” didn’t, in fact, do it.

      He was Chris Manfredonia, a father of a student at the school. This is old news.

  10. avatarMatt in FL says:

    I am surprised at how little information has been released about this incident. Compared to what we knew by this point after Aurora, we know very little, and some of it still seems conflicting.

    It’s probably hypocritical to ask that, as I have also decried the sensationalism of the media, but I’m capable of holding two different opinions at once.

    • avatarchip says:

      I have been thinking the same thing! I honestly believe that political forces stepped in early on to “manage” the facts to best push their agenda. I also believe that if all the real facts were released the average American would be more inclined to be more critical of issues other then gun control.

    • avatarstateisevil says:

      After certain elements of the Aurora shooting began to get traction, the coverage was stopped. Why make the same mistake again? What would be next, a maternity ward?

    • avatarblinkypete says:

      watch for an official report once the investigation is complete. Keep in mind that most of what usually comes out in the immediate aftermath comes from survivors, and in this case there were few or possibly none.

  11. avatartdiinva says:

    Looking at it ratioonally how would the tactical timeline work out?

    (1) Call goes out and officers rush to the scene.

    (2) Tactical evaluation phase, i.e, WTFO. You are not going to rush in unsupported. That only happens on TV.

    (3) Execute plan.

    Even if the department has a OPLAN for the situation and trains to that plan you still have to account for friction. What Clausewitz said about military planning applies equally to every plan. Fog and friction account for the delay.
    That is the reason that when seconds count the cops are 20 minutes away.

    • avatarmike says:

      you rush in unsupported when there are CHILDREN IN DANGER!

      • avatarJames1000 says:

        +1….WTF!?!?

      • avatartdiinva says:

        Here is a scenario for you. Two different units arrive separately and rush into the school from different location. Group 1 is uniformed officers and group two is detectives. Can you see some problems that might arise in this scenario?

        • avatarJames1000 says:

          There are many things to consider, obviously….however in my opinion LEs are first responders and swear to protect life and property. Reports of someone shooting up a school should immediately invoke action. To include first on scene to enter and isolate the incident. Again, a lot to think about and it’s easy to armchair.

        • avatarStacy says:

          “Dispatch, this is Det. Leadfoot, I’m here and entering the the premises.”
          “Dispatch to all units, be apprised friendlies inside the building.”
          Doesn’t seem to so hard…

        • avatar16V says:

          That’s why there is a “color of the day” for UC and some detectives.

          Regardless, in a podunk burg like this, every LE knows every other LE by sight in at least the whole county.

        • avatartdiinva says:

          James:

          I think the lesson here is that cops are second responders. The first responders are the people at the point of attack.

        • avatarChris Mallory says:

          Fine, if you don’t want to do your job, it is time to start cutting the platinum pay and benefits and make sure you can’t draw one dime of pension until you hit 65.

        • avatarcigr says:

          This wasn’t in NYC. Newton is a town of less than 30,000 people. I am sure every single cop in that town knows every other cop.

    • avatarJimD says:

      I don’t care if they get there in time or not. Step out of the way and let people defend themselves and it doesn’t matter how long it takes the police to respond.

    • avatarSid says:

      Your views are VERY out-of-date. Very.

      Active shooter training began after a long hard look at Columbine. At that time, the standard was hostage-taking, perimeter manning, intensive searching by teams. That was found to be utterly wrong.

      Now, police officers are trainined to immediately enter and assist/search/clear/segregate. Active shooter training is the most difficult training I have seen officers attempt. There are so many “what ifs” that will come up. There is no waiting period. The depts have a known system and plan for every school. Where the first officer places his car signals to the next arriving officer. First officer on scene does X, next officer does Y, first supervisor on scene begins immediately doing X, dispatcher does Y. The contigency is prepared so that when something happens every next layer knows what the previous layer is doing.

      It cannot be made up on the fly. It must be practiced. I know locally that our LEOs open the schools during the summer for practice. There are symbols in the hallway that mean very little to anyone else but tell the responding officers classroom counts, exits, and distance from the main entrance.

      20 minutes indicates too much went wrong. The dept needs to look long and hard in the mirror. Something or many things went terribly wrong. A call that shots have been fired at an elementary means turn your patrol car around in the middle of the street and drive it like you stole it. Get in the building and safeguard anyone you find. NOT WAIT ON THE PERIMETER.

      • avatartdiinva says:

        I guess the police in Newtown and Aurora didn’t get the memo because in both cases nobody rushed in to meet the attacker. They waited outside until they were ready to go by which time Lanza had offed himself and Holmes was waiting them in the parking lot.

    • avatarTexas Tac Officer says:

      >(2) Tactical evaluation phase, i.e, WTFO. You are not going to rush in unsupported. That only happens on TV.

      Wrong. I’m an officer in my departments tactical unit. I have been to several active shooter training schools and mass casualty exercises. In every one I have been to we are instructed to enter, clear, and/or engage suspects upon arrival. Even as a buck patrol officer. The only time we are trained to pull out or not go in is if we encounter explosives or explosives have been used.

  12. avatarStacy says:

    Count me among those wondering if the 20 minutes includes McClellan-style waiting for double-overwhelming force to assemble before attempting to do something. Maybe that wasn’t the case, but I’d like a definitive answer. I don’t expect officers to go on suicide missions, but when you have an active shooter on a mission to wipe out a school, force protection can’t be the absolute top priority.

  13. Like it’s been said before: “When seconds count, Police are minutes away.”

  14. avatarRob says:

    The media has been pulling the wool over the eyes of the public by running fluff sympathy pieces on this story rather than any real reporting.

    Like it’s been said, there has not been any real answers to a lot of questions, yet we’ve heard endless stories about how the cops were traumatized and surrounding cities covered thier posts, we heard all about the new school the kids went to, and we’ve heard all about the trip to Disney that somebody is trying to organize for them, and we’ve all heard how we, the responsible gun owners, are to blame. This is not news, it’s only meant to get people too emotional to think straight.

  15. avatarST says:

    I don’t find this as unbelievable as many would think. It’s possible Sandy Hills LE were involved with another crisis at the time the call came out. While a 20 minute response time is bad news, its also par for the course even in a big city like Chicago.

    What many people don’t realize from thankfully not using it often is that 911 is by no means instant.Thanks to budget cuts and police cutbacks your 911 response time may be longer then youd like!

    Think- if it took 1 whole hour for 911 to respond to your call, you wouldn’t know it until the SHTF, in which case you probably won’t survive to complain about it.

    • avatarJames1000 says:

      Valid point, but I find it hard to believe there were higher priority calls then a reported shooter at an elementary school. Even if, what could cold possibly be more pressing at that moment?

    • avatarrosignol says:

      If that’s what happened, they need to release some details.

      20 minutes is not an acceptable response time to a ‘shooter on campus’ call.

  16. avatarCoyote Gray says:

    “There are plenty of questions surrounding this tragedy. Before we go banning guns, we need to address the “totality” of the circumstances”.

    This is the truest statement that anyone can EVER make about this entire incident.

    Quite frankly, both my Pro2A bretheren and the Anti-gun people, like any other citizens locked in partisan politicol battle, cherry pick data and tweak variables to drive their agenda. But regardless of who does the analysis, a few things are always evident:

    1) There is not correlation between number of guns and violent crimes.
    2) Sorry folks, there also doesn’t appear to be correlation between number of guns and drops in crime.
    3) Their isn’t enough data or correlation to start talking causation.
    4) We don’t collect the type of data we need, to definitively identify key factors at the root of a relatively new trend, “spree shootings” or what the health care community is dubbing”Rampage Violence”.
    5) There is a much more insideous issue at the root of this, and some key weaknesses with in our society. And we are going to be focused on scary black guns.

    I suspect we will pass some useless and underfunded AWB and useless improvement to NICS, and we will face another crisis like this again; But worse since Adam Lanza set the bar so high for copycats and any other delusional who makes some far flung connections between the rage they feel, a body count, defenslessness of victims, and the brutality in which they can affect mayhem.

    • avatarDyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      Actually, there is a correlation between the increase in guns in the last 15 years and the drop in crime. Crime rates (per 100K population) have been going down steadily since the early 90′s. Guns in the population have been going up.

      What we cannot say is whether the increase in guns has caused the drop in crime. Correlation != causation. We would need to do deeper statistical analysis to make that conclusion.

      At the very least, the anti-gunners are forced into a position of explaining how the decrease in the rates of violent crime at the same time as the number of gun in circulation doesn’t disprove their argument that “more guns begets more crime.”

  17. avatarTed says:

    I’ve ordered pizza delivery in about this much time.

    20 minutes to respond to an active shooter 2.3 miles away is an awful response time.

    • avatarJoshinGA says:

      I doubt they had patrol cars just sitting at the station with cops waiting for something to happen. Still, 20 mins is a rather long response time.

      • avatarTheSleeperHasAwakened says:

        An Active Shooter at an Elementary School is an “All Hands On Deck” situation. And one can reasonablly assume that there was at least one Police Officer at the Station.

        Why at least one (1) Police Officer didn’t leave the station to drive 2.3 miles as fast as possible to assess/recon the scene is mind boggling!

        What scenario is more urgent that they would need to hold back resources? Or were they told to stand down, a la Benghazi?

        • avatarjwm says:

          Do you honestly believe a small town PD would aknowledge a stand down order when kids from thier own community are being murdered? Alex Jones can have you brother, you’re too far gone for the rest of us.

        • avatarTheSleeperHasAwakened says:

          Do you honsetly deny that the US Military was told to stand down while the US Consulate Annex was under direct and indirect fire for four (4) hours all the while a spectre gunship circling overhead with enemy mortar positions painted with targeting lasers?

          But you’re right, our Government has NEVER ordered “Stand Downs” in fire fights/desperate situations when aid could have been easily delivered.

          Keep drinking the Koolaid…there’s a lot of it.

      • avatarChris Mallory says:

        The desk sgt and police chief don’t have personal cars at the station?

        • avatarjwm says:

          I went to our local police station Friday to have a fix it ticket signed off on. I live in a larger city than Newtown. The “desk seargeant” was an unsworn unarmed city employee behind a wall of glass. In order to get the ticket signed she had to call an officer off patrol to do it. I waited 30 minutes for a sworn officer to arrive.

          What does this prove, nothing. Except that budgets have been cut everywhere and staffing is down across the board. At any given moment there may not be a sworn officer on duty even at the police station.

          Of couse I believe this is more reason for citizens to be armed in their dailey lives.

  18. avatarMike says:

    Cops were finishing up their flaming hot donut contest

  19. avatarthe last Marine out says:

    I lived near a small Pa. town and you were on your own , our police were the Pa. state troopers any call was always over 25 to 30 mins. even bank and store holdups ( armed) got poor times. I also know for a fact that the police mess there pants if any big stuff like shootings , they were not about to get shot for a paycheck… That is why the founders gave us the 2A … the courts have ruled the police do NOT have to protect you at all EVER.. the police real job is local TAX collector like in parking/speeding tickets…. Far as I can see the ideal of police is the JOKE of the liberals of all time…………

  20. avatarjwm says:

    According to wiki Newtown has a population of about 28 thousand. Their police department has 47 sworn officers. That’s for 24/7 coverage. How experienced aqre the newtown officers at handling large scale events? This was the first time I’d ever heard of the place. How well trained are the officers? Are their commanders worth a spit?

    I’ve lived the rural small town life. It’s great. But you have to accept a reduction in services and you have to adopt a more independent attitude.

    Which is why America needs armed community volunteers at their schools.. If it can happen at Sandy Hook it can happen anywhere. And all the gassbagging by the pols and pundits is doing nothing to make the schools any safer. Quite the contrary, it may be inspiring the next Holmes or Lanza.

    • avatarIng says:

      Small town life is the only way to go. I wonder about their preparedness level in Newtown, though. A reasonably prosperous town of 28,000 ought to have enough police presence to deal with something like the Sandy Hook massacre.

      I live in a town the same size on the other end of the country, and I just found out that the local PD stages active shooter exercises in the 4 public schools in town (3 elementary schools, middle school, and high school) several times a year when school isn’t in session. They practice their response from the first “shots fired” call clear through the final outcome, and they all know the layout of the schools. Not to mention, this being a small town, half of them have kids in those schools.

      However, this is also a college town. Out of about 30k residents, 18,000 are college students of one stripe or another. After the Virginia Tech rampage, the college and the town got together and got *very* serious about response to that kind of emergency.

      As far as such things go, I feel pretty good about the ability of law enforcement in my area to get there quickly, notify the right people, and do the right thing if somebody tried shooting up a school.

      The one thing we’re missing is armed defense actually on school grounds; if we had that, I’d feel better. That’s what gets me about the national media and politicians response to Sandy Hook — the easiest and most effective solution is the one option they categorically refuse to consider.

  21. avatarTheSleeperHasAwakened says:

    So when does discussing questions about an official story/narraitve make you a “Nut Job Conspiracy Theorist” and when is perfectaly acceptable?

    Just asking because there seems to be a lot of double standards at play here on TTAG.

    This is a VERY legitimate question this Police Officer is asking, but the use of logic isn’t solely confined “Officials” and/or “Experts”.

    • avatarWLCE says:

      my thoughts exactly.

      it seems to be sacrilegious to ask questions anymore.

    • avatarjwm says:

      Sleeper, a conspiracy theory is like porn. It’s had to get a consensus on what constitutes porn, but you know it when you see it. Since the interwebz allows instant communication without fact checking it takes very little to get even a mundane story blown way out of proportion. And there was nothing mundane about Sandy Hook.

      There’s a reason why police and military people are debriefed after an action. 10 people involved in the same incident will see and report 10 different unrelated narratives of what happened. It’s hard enough for an experienced intel guy to get to the facts, let alone the man on the street recovering from the shock of it all.

      It seems nowadays every incident larger than a cat stuck in a tree brings out the “theories”. It would take a government as big as the population to be pulling off all these conspiracies.

      I spent 40 years in various government agencies, federal and local including the military before I retired. I even got activated into FEMA during an emergency in West Virginia. I would trust a boy scout troop to pull off a conspiracy before I would the feds.

      • avatarMatt in FL says:

        “I even got activated into FEMA during an emergency in West Virginia.”

        So you can tell me where the best bunk is in the camp when they make me go?

        • avatarjwm says:

          True story, Matt. We set up a relief center in an old, long closed insane asylum. It was dry and warm but I was creeped out the whole time I was there. That place had serious bad juju.

          Also, no body is made to go. A lot of people simply have no option and are grateful for the help.

        • avatarWilliam says:

          “Bunk”. That’s a good one.

      • avatarTheSleeperHasAwakened says:

        If the Feds are a bunch of dunces and could F-up a wet dream…why is it that they keep laughing all the way to the bank everytime a disaster strikes? Being a moron is all it takes to become a billionaire?

        Sounds like you got the mushroom treatment for 40 years…kept in the dark and feed a steady diet of bullshit.

        Here’s a tip for you…If you can’t spot the sucker within the first half hour at a poker table, then you’re the sucker!

        • avatarjwm says:

          Sleeper, if they’re as crafty and well organised as you seem to think then the games already over, they’ve won. Some people need a scapegoat for the failures in their own lives. In the past it was the Chinese, or the Irish or the Blacks. Now it’s the feds and their evil conspiracies.

          And the one getting rich off this is Alex Jones, fleecing the sheep.

      • avatarWLCE says:

        a nice appeal to authority, but im still going to ask questions, thanks.

        so operation northwoods was a made up conspiracy theory?

        the hilarity of state boot lickers never ceases to amaze me. you show them documentation and they put on their red white and fucking blue blinders and charlie mike.

        • avatarjwm says:

          Northwoods, a rejected CIA propasol from 62 is your proof that Sandy Hook was a false flag op? And throw in the boot licker thing to drive home your point. I’m speechless WLCE. I used to run into guys like you on public transit all the time.

          Hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of people with the inside scoop on super dooper secret government ops. And yet the G is still operating without restraint?

          Liberalism is not the only mental illness, is it?

        • avatarWLCE says:

          “Northwoods, a rejected CIA propasol from 62 is your proof that Sandy Hook was a false flag op?”

          draw to wrong conclusions much? i said it was proof of the government doing as they please; conspiracy theories have a valid reason for existing and why people should question everything.

          and a “rejected CIA proposal”. LOL. sure. the fact that such a thing was even contrived doesnt seem to affect you one bit? disappointing.

          ” And throw in the boot licker thing to drive home your point. I’m speechless WLCE. I used to run into guys like you on public transit all the time.”

          speechless? did i strike a nerve? you shit on the idea of conspiracies when conspiracy fact does exist and you expect me to think youre a independent, free-thinking patriot? excuse my sentiment.

          “Hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of people with the inside scoop on super dooper secret government ops. And yet the G is still operating without restraint?”

          another red herring. im really not surprised at this point.
          .
          “Liberalism is not the only mental illness, is it?”

          statism and naiveity seem to be a pretty prevalent illnesses ill say.

          “reality has a well known liberal bias”

    • avatarLemming says:

      Reasonable Question: “Really 20 minutes? Did it really take that long? Why was that?”

      Nutjob conspiracy theorist: “It took 20 minutes,. which proves that the warlocks who launched this attack are part of the Sandy Hook PD”

  22. avatarLC Judas says:

    A “shots fired” call in good faith generates 5 units response in as many minutes on average. When they will arrive is of slight variance. Usually four officers minimum try to confront a shooter. Mainly to close escape routes. Three or less and you run the risk of losing the shooter if he runs or officer safety if you get an officer hit and can’t spare anpther officer to stay with him.

    School shooters aren’t exactly the same as gang bangers or dope boys doing business in the hood but that is the standard I’m familiar with.

  23. avatarCurzen says:

    Small PDs are often at the maximum of their capacity (or beyond) with handling the ‘normal stuff’. 20 minutes seems long, but I’m afraid a sudden mass shooting would see a similar response time in my small town where the states requirement of police presence on the stretch of interstate in our town, the asshats racing down the main thoroughfare, one accident and a public disturbance would bind up all squad cars in a shift.

  24. avatarPascal says:

    I posted a comment about this when it first happened. Glad its getting some renewed interest and that hopefully someone will call out the PD on this as well.

    Anyone who lives in the area knows they have no problems with their many speed traps on various roads but apparently too busy to respond. They also called State PD that came from as far away as Danbury itself about 20min away. SWAT units where also called, but that town has a regional SWAT unit that is made of officers from 6 different towns so they are not exactly at the ready.

    I am wondering if the first thing they did was setup a perimeter first before going in.

    The State PD says it will be months before there is a report and police are on 24/7 watch at the empty building. I would love to know what is taking so long for the investigation to be made public. The shooter is dead, the mother is dead — who is left to prosecute? Why have they not released more information?

    Even if there is no cover up, it smells like a cover up now that it is taking so long. No government agency will want to say anything that makes any other government agency look bad — even when someone says that CT has a mental health issue its system is under funded, people are made to quickly shut up.

    I would like to note that none of the media has bothered to question anything.

    IMHO, there were clearly failures in the system but nobody wants to talk about them.

    • avatarTheSleeperHasAwakened says:

      No one who considers him/herself an intelligent human being should accept any official narrative at face value.

  25. avatarRalph says:

    No conspiracies. No negligence. No donut shops. The police took 20 minutes because the police always take 20 minutes. Except when they take 30.

    • avatarRydak says:

      Agreed, I don’t want to get into conspiracies. At least not me, you guys can do what ya want. I just want to know, what the hell took a suburban police department 20 minutes to get there? I know hind sight is 20/20 and I’m willing to adjust for that. But seriously, its not out in the sticks, its not in some national park or wooded area where someone has to call and wake up the local sheriff. This is not inner city, so its not like they were stuck in NYC traffic gridlock. 20 minutes…long time.

    • avatarRich says:

      I grew up in the area and know Newtown well.

      It’s sad to see Church Hill Road turning into the 21st Century version of the Grassy Knoll.

  26. avatarthe last Marine out says:

    Here is another liberal JOKE of the year , If you think the bad guys worry about the police forget it, all they need do is a decoy job to pull the police away from the real job, so again how dumb can you get ! The bad guys do fear me , because i will shoot them in the head with my 357 mag… just as our founders wanted (justice) then if the police are able to catch a bad guy (most like it was the public tip off etc that gets them) we pay millions to our liberal courts to do all they can to get them back on the streets again… 90 % of our crime is done over and over by the same 8% … way i see it Amerika has everything up side down… WE need to CUT the police save BIG tax money and give people like George Zimmerman A Big reward and a big medal …. like i say Amerika is a SICK place…………and it will not get out of GOD’s judgement/………

  27. avatarBob says:

    Not to kick the tinfoil hat ant mound but I thought I heard something about Lanza smashing up his computer after shooting his mom. Was this ever actually reported or did it just get created in the process of retelling?

    Was it 20 min to arrival of the police on site or 20 minutes until “interdiction” activities began on site? I’d have to assume the former.

    I wonder what a 20min travel time ring looks like plotted around the school?

  28. avatarDon says:

    You should be able to run 2.3 miles in 20 minutes and it sounds like he shot himself when he heard the sirens pulling up outside. Hopefully we’ll get more info when the final reports are made.

  29. avatarLance says:

    Shows the need for armed security. Cops who are at a Police station across town cant make it in time.

  30. avatarHighwayman says:

    I doubt it took 20 minutes to arrive at the school for any of the cops on duty that day. Even if all the cops were at the furtest point in town from the school, they all would have gotten to the school in under ten minutes from time of dispatch. Newtown is relatively large for a Connecticut town, but its not so big that it takes 20 minutes to travel across town with lights and sirens.
    I would suspect since the CT state police muscled their way to the forefront on this case, that the 20 minute response might be what it took for one of their cars to get to the school from when the incident started.
    I’m sure when the police reports are released the time stamped dispatch tapes will be revealed.

  31. avatarWilliam says:

    Well… they wait until they’re pretty sure all the mags are empty. If you were a chickenshit bastard, you’d do the same.

  32. avatarcz82mak says:

    Other reports have the on-scene time within 10 minutes:

    http://www.examiner.com/article/dispatch-release-911-calls-of-connecticut-shooting-at-sandy-hook-elementary

    Still would have been better had he been met at the door with armed resistance.

  33. avatarMark says:

    Police response time is irrelevant to mass murders because they can’t stop it unless they’re already there before it starts. This has proven to be a chronic problem wherever people are disarmed and “gun free zones” are at fault.

    • avatarChristian says:

      This isn’t exactly true Mark. Many cases of school shootings are stopped either by the arrival of police, or direct contact with police. The problem is this is usually after a minimum of 5-8 min of carnage.

  34. avatarhtom says:

    First reports are often wrong. In this case, there is so much so wrong I’m almost inclined to think it’s intentional … but ignorance and terror are sufficient to explain the errors. The lack of correction of those errors, however ….

  35. avatarrightontheleftcoast says:

    Didnt TTAG learn a lesson repeating what they got from the MSM on this?
    Lets wait for the facts to come out.
    Anything else is a waste of time and credibility.

  36. avatarMr aNINNYmouse says:

    Looks like the school is outside the boundary of Newtown. Jurisdiction, maybe?

  37. avatarTotenglocke says:

    7 minutes to cover 2.3 miles? That’s why they have these things called “sirens” and “lights”. Anything over 4 minutes absolute tops for that short of a distance is just nuts.

  38. avatarWmc says:

    I had a friend who got his video rental store broke into at 2am. His alarm went off and he called 911. The KSP said they would meet him at 9am, even tough they were called while the robbery was in place.

  39. avatarpat says:

    20 minutes? What do the evil, libtards think of that, as they try to take our freedom? When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away.
    Liberalism is a mental disorder.

  40. avatarChristian says:

    When I saw news of 20 min police response I was just as enraged as anyone, however I did a little homework, and confirmed there is no way that CNN timeline is correct.

    The shooting began at 9:35AM, and the latest possible reporting of the last shot comes at 9:49AM (some say as early as 9:46). Its also been reported:

    “After realizing that he had been spotted by a police officer who had entered the building, Lanza killed himself with a shot to the front of the head from a handgun.”

    So the longest possible time it could have taken for police to make visual contact (not arrival time) was 14 minutes.

    Bad information is bad information (also, that CNN timeline is the only source for the 20 min arrival time). We should always “be Berean” and investigate the facts before using it as fodder.

  41. avatarGranny Grunch says:

    And why is there now a question as to whether the lad was even carrying the AR15. I rember early on a comment was made about an “assault rifle” being found in the shooters car. The government controlled news peons are running with the assault rifle at the scene….maybe/probably it was not.

  42. avatarJoe S says:

    First off, I respect teh heck out of any LE person, whether a tactical unit SWAT member, or small town cop. That being said, from my limited knowledge, the small town cops are not as prepared as say the state PD or a large city SWAT unit for this scenario. Given the nature of teh town, teh most dangerous thing the PD may have faced was a domestic dispute. Unless you’re a tacticaly trained SWAT member, there really isn’t any kind of manual for these small town cops to prepare them for a shootout at the OK Corral. If the 20 minute response time is correct, while they may have been there 19 minutes too late, I can logically see why – the 911 call comes in and MAYBE by the time the call is made to the PD units, 2 – 5 minutes may have elapsed. Newtown IS a pretty large area, so the the closest PD unit may have been across town. Maybe they were in their car, maybe they were on foot, who knows. Even if the closes PD was in the station, there’s another minute or 2 to physically get geared up and in the car. By the time tehy get to the school, that may be another 5 minutes. Regardless of children or not (I know it sounds cold), I doubt any PD goes in guns a blazin Clint Eastwood style. They will need at least a minute or 2 to assess the situation. I’m also assuming that NO cop would go into a “shots fired” situation without any backup, lest they walk into an ambush and you have an “officer Down” in addition to a shots fired incident. THings the office would take into consideration BEFORE entering the building: Does anyone know how many shooters are in the area, types of weapons, any hostages, is there any description of the shooter to distunguish them from the victims, possible location of the shooter, are tehy inside or outside, did they flee the scene, etc. Again, without at least trying to get these questions answered and/or waiting for backup, you’re just asking the officer to be part of the body count; given all of these, I can see 20 minutes being realistic. As I said before, this is a SMALL TOWN (population, not area) in a pretty rural part of CT with a small town type of police department, and it is unrealistic to expect them to have a Delta Force type of protection waiting at the ready for teh call to come in so they can spring into action. Again, while I respect ANYONE in LE who is willing to put their life on the line to save mine, take a bullet so that I may live, etc, the adage of “When seconds count, police are minutes away” is true. Again, I’m not disrespecting them, I’m just trying to be realistic in my expectations.

  43. avatarWendy Weinbaum says:

    As a Jewess in the US, I can only say that ANY anti-gun plan from an ignoramus like Slow Joe Biden or his dirty Kenyan boss is bound to be a loser idea. Certainly it will make all REAL Americans put our 2nd Amendment FIRST! Both criminals and overbearing governments respect FIREPOWER, not sweet talk. And remember that America wasn’t won with a registered gun! -Wendy

  44. avatarMurrrdog says:

    Sandy Hook like Aurora, CO and the Sikh temple shootings were Operation Gladio USA False Flag attacks with the purpose of getting guns banned. They all involved multiple shooters. NATO and the UN know Americans are too stupid to figure it out and know they have control of the MSM and political leaders.

  45. avatarShadowCat59 says:

    In Connecticut, 9-1-1 calls made via a cellular phone are routed through the Connecticut State Police, not the local police. The CSP Dispatcher, often a Trooper, must then relay the information to the Dispatcher at the local Police department. The CSP is dispatched from wherever the nearest available units are located, and the troop which covers the area, and/or the District Major Crime Squad. Troopers are spread thin, and may be a great distance away, even traveling at high speed. When multiple calls are coming in to 9-1-1, and there is one person dispatching it is not an easy situation to deal with, and it becomes an “all hands’ on deck” coordinated situation. There is not a central dispatch system as there is in a place such as New York city or Los Angeles.

  46. avatarLocqutus says:

    OK, I used to in a town just a town or two over from Newtown and worked in a
    industrial plant there at one time, Newtown CT has the largest land area of any
    town in CT (about 60 sq miles). Theres alot of side roads, and the main drag through town at morning rush and afternoon rush has numerous traffic signals and traffic can be quite bad there.
    Not defending the Newtown police but I’d tend to beleive the idea that response time was much longer than has been said, closer to 20 than 3 minutes.
    I now live in a rural area in NE Arkansas, on a unpaved farm road, which is off two other unpaved farm roads , its ten miles to the center of town, lots of the big roads are narrow and have drainage dtiches on the two sides, I drive at no more than 40 on these roads at night, and no more 50 mph during the day. distance alone compromises response time here, and I live not in town but in the county, so its a
    different LE agency.
    when the crap hits fan, don’t count on LE responce time to save your life. As for Newtown school shooting, theres so many questions, so many anomalies, theres been so much “purportedly corrected information” issused long after the event
    occured. The truth, theres little “hard verfiable information” specially since the
    state and obama slammed the lid on releasing more information.
    Unfortunately we live in a time when we can “trust no one”, and the drive by
    obama suck up media are the last to be trusted.

  47. avatarJ. S. says:

    Twenty minutes is way too long for a 3 mile run. I heard there might have been some type of training taking place, but certainly the PD would have left someone patroling their town. I am a police officer and I can tell you this in no uncertain terms, a shots fired call at a school is the type of call that you drop absolutely everything, and I mean everything, and you get your butt to the school as fast as you can. Once you are at the school you don’t stand around and wait for back up. If you can still hear shots coming from inside the school you got to go in and engage the shooter, even if you are alone. It is what we train for after Columbine, it’s an active shooter situation. You got to stop the shooter before he kills more people.

  48. avatarPsyche vanGold says:

    I have this suspicious feeling that the first responders might have run to the wrong school at first. It would explain why the first media coverage is from officers running across the parking lot at St.Rose of Lima School. It would also explain why they might find bystanders there that were by accident arrested. It might also explain why this was then totally covered up and never mentioned again, because that would be the fuckup of the century, giving the gunman more time to kill those kids if they might have been able to stop him earlier..if there were kids..and one gunman..

  49. avatarZephyr says:

    Newtown PD was on scene in three minutes. Audio and transcript here: http://bit.ly/YwwBsE

    However, there are multiple issues with the story, including the question of what happened at St. Rose.

    Two days later, on 12/16, State Police stated over the radio, as St. Rose church was being evacuated, that the threat that day was of continued shooting, “…to continue what happened two days ago at this location with the person who’s continuing to be the target.”

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