The Truth About Chicago Police Chief’s “Threat” to Shoot Concealed Carry License Holders

 

“I don’t care if they’re licensed legal firearms, people who are not highly trained… putting guns in their hands is a recipe for disaster,” Chicago’s Police Chief Gary McCarthy told a Windy City radio interviewer at WVON 1690 am. “So I’ll train our officers that there is a concealed carry law, but when somebody turns with a firearm in their hand the officer does not have an obligation to wait to get shot to return fire and we’re going to have tragedies as a result of that. I’m telling you right up front.” Gun rights advocates are up in arms at that one. They consider the Chief’s statement a threat against their lives. Well, yes. Yes it is. But it’s also the reality of the situation . . .

We’ve discussed this on this site before. If you’re involved in a defensive gun use (DGU), you are in real danger of getting shot by the cops.

In the fog of battle, in the heat of the moment, arriving cops are not going to see a firearm in a civilian’s hands and think “Maybe he’s the good guy!” They’re going to consider anyone holding a gun a lethal threat.

That’s doubly true in jurisdictions where legal concealed carry is a rare as spotting Rachel Feierman at Pep Boys. Places like Chicago, where cops have no “institutional memory” of righteous DGUs.

In any case, it’s up to you to “manage” the responding officer situation. As soon as you can, as soon as it’s safe to do so, put the gun away. Reholster into concealment or put it on the ground.

Don’t move. Follow instructions.

If it’s not safe to reholster or drop the gun, why are you standing there? Get you and yours away; you are under no legal obligation to remain in a dangerous situation.

Call the cops ASAP. Say only what’s strictly necessary. Which includes a description of yourself. Do not expect to be greeted as a hero, ’cause it ain’t gonna happen.

As for McCarthy, I don’t interpret his incendiary remarks as granting his troops a license to kill. There are a lot of reasons to consider McCarthy an enemy of our Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms, but this ain’t one of them.

 

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About Robert Farago

Robert Farago is the Publisher of The Truth About Guns (TTAG). He started the site to explore the ethics, morality, business, politics, culture, technology, practice, strategy, dangers and fun of guns.

114 Responses to The Truth About Chicago Police Chief’s “Threat” to Shoot Concealed Carry License Holders

  1. avatarAlphaGeek says:

    95% with you RF, but let’s recognize this for what it REALLY is:

    It is NOT a threat to kill CCW citizens involved in a DGU.

    It IS blatant intimidation from authorities who do not want armed citizens, period, and they will say anything they can to scare people away from CCW. Don’t you think potential CCW citizens in Chicago will think twice about carrying, much less deploying a gun, after hearing this?

    • avatarRopingdown says:

      It blatantly intimidates potential CCW carriers exactly BECAUSE it is a threat, otherwise there would be no ‘intimidation’ you so quickly identify. Does McCarthy direct this kind of statement toward the paid bodyguards of Chicago’s elite? No. It’s just more of the NYC/Chicago PD-as-protectors of the elites, and of themselves, and only maybe of you. The state legitimately has a monopoly on force used at its borders or abroad. It has no legitimacy when it grasps for itself, extra-constitutionally, a monopoly on firearm-based defense against criminal aggression. Of course we should also point out that many politicians with a base in minority wards deprecate the idea of licensed carry exactly because so many of their voters have already been felonized. John Street, former mayor of Philadelphia, openly expressed this basis for rejecting CCW, with “permits and guns mostly held by suburban commuters.” -And I laugh at McCarthy’s reference to “poorly trained” CCW folks. That’s not what I see at IDPA matches.

    • avatarBarstow Cowboy says:

      I used to work a security job with a retired Chicago police officer. One of his more amusing stories was a time when he had a negligent discharge and wound up shooting a co-worker. It was not a lethal wound. He said when he was asked to answer for his actions he offered up that he was within his rights. Why? Because he was a “Tack Sergeant”, whatever that is. Leveraging your connections to get a guaranteed job with lifelong benefits doesn’t make you a tactical genius. Receiving a 40 hour block of instruction on how to shoot one or two guns and then qualifying once every 12 months doesn’t make you a tactical genius. These people act like they went through Jedi Knight training on Dagobah with all this,”Only WE are qualified to defend ourselves with firearms” stuff. On a side note, this chief of police looks like a young Ditka.

    • avatarRepubAnon says:

      Remember that guy in New York City, Amadou Diallo, who was shot multiple times by the police because be reached for his wallet?

      Do a Google search on “police shot wallet” and you’ll see lots of incidents where the police shot someone that they thought had a gun. It won’t get any better as more and more people carry concealed weapons.

      On a side note: there are a number of commenters mocking police firearms training as inadequate. However, the average police officer gets much more training than that of the average CCW permit holder. Do we really expect people receiving less weapons training than the average police officer to have a better safety record, or have fewer accidental weapons discharges, or make better shoot/don’t shoot decisions?

      • avatarjwm says:

        So far yes. People that bother to jump thru the hoops to get a permit have a remarkable track record on safety and responsible gun handling. Go ahead and look for comparison’s of bystanders being shot by police as opposed to by citizens with permits.

      • avatarNathan says:

        RepubAnon – I would appreciate it if you would cite evidence of this claim. Myself and all of my friends that own guns get out to the range way more often than once or twice a year.

        • avatarBob says:

          RepubAnon is talking about Training, and Nathan is talking about Practice.

          Two different things.

          Both are important.

          Police do get a lot of training in Police Academy, but generally do not follow that with regular and frequent practice. Therefore, the average police officer is poorly qualified for a shooting incident.

          The average CCW holder gets a little more than the minimum amount of training required to obtain his CCW, then spends much more time in a public shooting range practicing hitting a stationary target from a stationary stance. Therefore, the average CCW holder is also poorly qualified for a real shooting incident.

          A few of the police and the CCW holders get quality training and frequent quality practice. These people ar qualified for a real shooting incident. From the point of view from TTAG, it appears that most CCW holders are very qualified. That is because the type of person who makes the effort to get well qualified and maintain it with frequent practice is exactly the kind of person who tends to be a TTAG reader/commenter/writer.

          The AVERAGE person carrying a gun is much less qualified for a real shooting incident than he should be, whether that person is a police officer or a normal CCW holder.

          [flame-proof suit on, but I stand by what I said]

        • avatarMatt in FL says:

          I would like to associate myself completely with Bob’s comments re: training vs practice.

        • avatarAlphaGeek says:

          My own viewing of surveillance videos covering CCW live-fire incidents tends to support Bob’s points. Most CCW shooters I’ve seen don’t take cover, and only move (badly) if they absolutely have to. Anecdotes, not data, but it’s still useful to consider.

          Gotta love how sites like YouTube, LiveLeak, etc have revolutionized our access to video on specific topics of interest.

        • avatarCasey T says:

          Bob, I think you are wrong. A ton of people who have their CCW are former military and we are trained better than a lot of police. Also, many people are practical shooters, which despite being fun, it is also training. After you are trained, your practice is training because you know what you are doing and are increasing your skill. So while police are better trained in legal searches, arrests, etc. I don’t think many are better trained.

      • avatarAlphaGeek says:

        Didn’t I see an article breaking down the hit/miss stats for cops vs citizens here on TTAG recently? Seem to recall that the citizens came out ahead of the cops…

        • avatarRJOGuillory says:

          I grew up in a family of corrupt cops and law enforcement folks…Dad was a six-foot-nine-inch, 350 lb drunk, corrupt St. Louis City Cop….my Mom was a Court Clerk…and dispatcher…until she embezzled $80,000.00 from the ticket fund….and my deceased brother was a cop…until he got caught passing fake $100 bills at wal-mart….the majority of LEO that I have been exposed to are egotistical children who never grew up..and their toys make them feel bigger than everyone else…take their guns away from most LEO’s and they are just immature brats who cover up for their corrupt brethren…and btw, I know many more cops with unintentional discharges of their weapons than any civilians I know…and I know many more drunk, drugged and mentally/emotionally damaged people who are LEO’s…and people think they deserve a gun before law-abiding citizens? Crazy….

          Regards,

          RJ O’Guillory
          Author-
          Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

      • avatarBarstow Cowboy says:

        As far as I know most cops get just enough training to satisfy their training requirements and whatever they do on their own is up to them. Many don’t care enough about weapons training to do any more than the minimum, and honestly why should they? Statistically speaking using their gun is probably the function of their job that they do the least, and if they wind up blowing it when they’re shooting their guns they’ll have:

        1) Conditional immunity
        2) A TRUE presumption of innocence
        3) The backing of a strong union
        4) A jury that holds a generally favorable opinion of police

        and

        5) A media that paints any mistakes they make as honest errors in judgement, not stupid hot headed screw ups.

        • avatarCG-23 Sailor says:

          As far as you know?
          That ain’t much is it?
          There may be a few small town departments that lack the training as you claim, but most mid-sized cities and up have very strict requirements for training and constant re-qualification.

          Many don’t care? LMAO, most Police are very pro-2A in their own right, and go hunting and to the range on their own time IN ADDITION TO their required training.

          your “points”

          1) conditional immunity?
          immunity implies that he will simply “get away with it” just because of the situation. Not true.
          ALL OFFICER INVOLVED shootings are investigated and the officers involved will ride a desk until such time as the investigation is concluded. If the shooting was not justified, charges will be filed.

          2) A TRUE presumption of innocence.
          presumption of innocence applies to everyone in court. Don’t know what you are getting at by adding and emphasizing TRUE presumption. Unless your are insinuating falsely that the officer will automatically be found not guilty. again, you don’t know much do you?

          3) Backing of a strong union.
          only point you have that’s true. and they NEED ONE because every dumbass barroom wannabe lawyer tries to sue them for every imagined slight or misstep.

          4) A Jury that holds a favorable view of police? LMAO… IF they are so lucky.

          5) A media that paints any mistakes they make as honest errors in judgement, not stupid hot headed screw ups?

          Seriously? SERIOUSLY?
          You really are going with that?
          What fantasy world do you live in?
          The Media goes OUT OF THEIR WAY to paint the nastiest picture of any police incident damned near!

  2. avatarOkieRim says:

    Here, read what the local Chi-Town LEO’s think of this looser: It’s about half way down the page….

    http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/

    McDumbAss Threatens to Shoot Citizens

  3. avatarDale says:

    After a DGU
    1) Make sure you are safe. If not move to someplace safe nearby.

    2) Call 911 (first to call is usually considered the good guy). Give only the most basic information and state that you are the victim.

    3) Call your lawyer

    4) Say absolutely NOTHING else to ANYONE except your lawyer….PERIOD!

    • avatarA says:

      Have your ID’s out, and when you hear sirens, get down and put your hands on your head. Give the cops NO reason to shoot you.

      The best advice I ever got about police I got from a former DA turned defense attorney: “Treat all cops like dangerous, wild animals, because they have the same level of intellect. Move slowly, in a non-threatening manner, and never make loud noises. What ever you do, do not look a cop in the eyes, they take that as a sign of aggression.”

  4. avatarspeedracer5050 says:

    It is also a blatant disregard for the safety and lives of not only the law abiding citizens but the Chicago PD also.
    I can just about guarantee you that if a man and wife are the victims of a crime and involved in a DGU and a cop shoots say the husband the wife is going to do her damnest to hurt or kill said officer.
    The victims, already being wired up from the DGU and then a cop shooting at them too, not good for anyone.
    It will ultimately end up just as bad or worse than it is now in Chicago.
    God help them all!!

  5. avatarOfc. Scott Martini says:

    He should be fired!

    • avatar.9mm says:

      Agreed!
      “the officer does not have an obligation to wait to get shot to return fire ”
      You are only returning fire if you are fired upon first. What he meant was if an officer sees a gun you will be shot. He should be fired.

      • avatarRepubAnon says:

        More likely, he meant that anyone that the police officer thinks might be drawing a gun will be shot and killed. Case in point:

        The officers claimed they loudly identified themselves as NYPD officers and that Diallo ran up the outside steps toward his apartment house doorway at their approach, ignoring their orders to stop and “show his hands”… Diallo then reached into his jacket and withdrew his wallet… Believing Diallo had aimed a gun at them at close range, the officers opened fire on Diallo…The four officers fired 41 shots, more than half of which went astray as Diallo was hit 19 times. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadou_Diallo_shooting

        • avatarjwm says:

          In this situation, with Dialliou running away the permit holder would have no reason to fire and would not. Dialliou only turned and reached for his wallet when the men confronting him identified themselves as police.

          And why would a permit holder be confronting Dialliou anyway? 2 strangers passing on a street? The police approached Dialliou, as they said, because he looked like a suspect.

        • avatar16V says:

          Allegedly identified themselves as police.

          Beyond that the New York Putz Douchebags showed what trained perfessionells dey was when it comes to hitting what they (supposedly) aimed at.

          Regardless, ducking to determine if, in fact, the citizen is a threat is supposed to be part of the job. I don’t get to shoot everyone I think just might threaten me so I can “come home to the wife and kids” and neither do they.

    • avatarready,fire,aim says:

      he’s a buffoon with a toy badge

  6. avatarensitu says:

    It’s time to stop ‘praising with feint dams’ This “LEO”, like all his predecessors (and Mayors) is one uniform change away from an inmate. The man is a THUG, of that there can be no doubt! Anyone in Chicago that applies for a CCW had better be ready for severe retaliation by Emanuel’s minions!

  7. avatarOkieRim says:

    McCarthy annual salary of $260,004.

    Mayor-Rahm Emanuel named as Chicago’s new police superintendent Garry McCarthy, the Newark, N.J. police director who debuted innovative and controversial crime-fighting techniques during a long career in New York.

    http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/The-312/May-2011/Meet-Garry-McCarthy-Chicago-s-New-Top-Cop/

    • avatar16V says:

      With a starting base of $45K and an auto raise to $65K base after 18 months, not to mention the gravy retirement, CPD at any level is a gig you need friends to get. I haven’t kept up with that 2CCop blog in a while, guess I should get back to it.

      The CPD rank and file isn’t nearly as shoot-everything-nutty as NYC coppers, but with McDumbAss at the helm, that may change.

  8. avatarscottlac says:

    And it needs to be saved and quoted at his trial when he is eventually accused as an accessory to murder. As he says:

    “I’m telling you right up front.”

  9. avatarJOE MATAFOME says:

    You’re not only in danger of being shot by a cop who mistakes you for the bad guy, but you may also be shot by another CCW holder who might think you’re the threat. I don’t care what state you’re in, if you turn and aim your firearm at any cop in this country you’re going to get shot. Pulling your gun out in public in no joke, and you risk being killed wheather you’re trying to protect yourself or someone else.

    • avatarensitu says:

      You sir are describing a patheticaly contrived scenario

      • avatar16V says:

        Actually he’s stating a relatively obvious fact – you point the gun as the last resort.

        When you are brandishing a firearm, there is no magic video arrow pointing down on your 1stlife character saying “good guy”.

        When the (theoretical) good guys arrive, you drop the iron and try not to get shot. They have no idea anymore than Madam Cleo who is who, and even the perception of being a “threat” will get you shot by the trigger-happy paramilitaries being trained today.

  10. avatarSilver says:

    It may not be a “carry a gun and we’ll shoot you” threat, but it’s an intimidation that states “we’ll ensure ‘accidents’ happen until you peasants disarm and become subservient to us again.” Don’t think he won’t be the first one to send a bottle of champagne to the first costumed thug to pop a righteous CCWer.

    Does anyone truly expect different from the domestic terrorists running Chicago?

  11. avatarSean says:

    I would imagine the city of Chicago’s lawyers and insurance companies are not really pleased that he just opened the city up to multiple lawsuits when his officers do just that. Good job on that.

  12. avatarAharon says:

    Guys, I just found (and ordered!) some .38 special and .357 ammo off the Internet at Sportsmans Warehouse. Inventory is getting thin and SW is limiting customer purchases in some situations. Sportsmans Guide is also very low on inventory. Get this: at the Sportsmans Guide website, .38 ammo made by Sellier & Bellot is back 0rdered until July-September 2013. I’ve seen notices posted by dealers online stating that new ammo is expected to arrive anywhere from January to March/April to the just mentioned fall season.

    • avatarSCS says:

      I noticed that, also. The restocking estimates for certain calibers are freaking crazy.

    • avatarAlphaGeek says:

      I may get shouted down for my cheapness, but I’ve been having a hard time forcing myself to make the buy on a case or two of locally available 40SW. The price hike over the previous case bought online is… substantial. Like an increase of 1.5x in cost per round.

      Since I have a goodly amount still in the locker, I’m torn between picking up one more case vs putting that money towards a reloading setup for all of that once-fired brass I’ll have as I use up my supply.

      • avatarAccur81 says:

        I’m pretty much shooting .22 LR except for 100 rounds of .40 Smith yesterday weekend for a friendly competition. I may actually switch to .177 BB’s soon.

        • avatarAlphaGeek says:

          Fortunately, my supply of Meisterkugeln 177 pellets is in good shape. Takes up a lot less storage space than the 40SW and 20ga ammo, that’s for sure.

    • avatarensitu says:

      some of SG’s 223 is back ordered till October

  13. avatarRandy Drescher says:

    This is word for word what Sheriff Clark in Wis said a little over a year ago. Wis. streets didn’t run with blood & the good Sheriff has come around to our side now. His officers are not threatened by lawfull CC holders(imagine that). Chicago says they will have to stack the bodies up at the curb for pickup, so really, it will be just like any other week. When Chicago falls that will be it, no more, sigh, Randy

  14. avatarHasdrubal says:

    Remember, if you don’t live in a big city with Marxist elected officials, you probably don’t have to deal with this nonsense. If you live in a medium sized city or smaller, especially in a red state, the police probably don’t hate the public or hate liberty.

    I can’t speak for all, but the guys who transfer from southern CA are the most likely I’ve seen to have a bad attitude towards guns, and the locally raised guys the least likely. We don’t have anyone from the east coast, but I would guess the farther you get from NY/DC the better.

    • avatarChris Mallory says:

      Thugs with badges are taking over most police agencies. The Federal “Make the cops look like out of shape SEALS” program are working as planned.

      Disarm the cops for a safer America.

  15. avatarKnoxville says:

    I’m sure the good people of Chicago would be much safer if only “highly-trained” LEO’s like Anthony Abbate were able to carry guns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49kgG0s7lVk

  16. avatarRoss says:

    Rank and file CPD hate McCarthy, CPD would not qualify as “highly trained” by any stretch

  17. avatarJim Scrummy says:

    I am so glad I was not offered a position I interviewed for in Chicago a few years ago, after this stupidity. Yep, never ever going to live in IL, couldn’t pay me enough cashish to move there. It’s bad enough living next door to DC and MD and their stupidity.

  18. avatarRalph says:

    McCarthy is everything we’re come to expect of big city police. I’m surprised that he didn’t threaten to break into the wrong house and shoot the dog, too.

    • avatarAvid Reader says:

      Give him time.

    • avatarmikeinid says:

      I think that was assumed.

      Most of us understand that you face risks from first responders and other ccw civilians in a shooting situation. Don’t kid yourself, this isn’t your local sheriff or some other reasoned individual. He is a member of the aristocracy, and that was a threat, pure and simple. He would have you shot as a lesson to the rest of the peasants.

  19. avatarSCS says:

    Trim his mustache a little and he looks a lot like Hitler. What the hell, he already SOUNDS like Hitler.

  20. avatarJoseph says:

    Is it a legal requirement to be insane before a person can live/work in Chicago?

  21. avatarDavid says:

    Like to see this guy talk his way out of shooting a a peasant when that peasant is an undercover or off-duty cop.

    • avatarRepubAnon says:

      From Police Chief Magazine:

      The issue of police-on-police shootings has been brought to the forefront in New York following three recent fatal shootings:

      *On May 28, 2009, off-duty New York City Police Department (NYPD) Officer Omar Edwards was shot and killed by another officer as Edwards was in foot pursuit of a suspect who had broken into Edwards’s car.

      *On January 25, 2008, off-duty Mt. Vernon, New York, Police Department Officer Christopher Ridley was shot and killed by officers from another department while Ridley was holding a suspect.

      *In 2006, off-duty NYPD Officer Eric Hernandez was shot and killed by an on-duty officer after attempting to apprehend suspects who had attacked him.

      Officer Safety during Police-on-Police Encounters

      • avatarjwm says:

        permit holders aren’t cops. they don’t chase perps during their off duty hours. Once the threat is dealt with they stand down.

  22. avatarWilliam says:

    “…we’re going to PROVIDE that tragedy, so I’m pretty safe in making this prediction.”

  23. avatarChris Mallory says:

    Armed government employees should be required to actually come under fire before they use their weapons. They don’t like this? Fine, we can end the excessive pay, end the platinum benefits, repeal various “LEO Bill of Rights”, and make sure they don’t draw one dime of pension until they turn 65. They work for us, the life of a Citizen is worth more than the life of any government employee.

    • avatarRopingdown says:

      What a humorous suggestion. I can well recall this, that as a Huey crewman manning an M-60 machine gun during the Laos Incursion in early 1971, essentially a campaign into fortified enemy territory, we were ordered not to shoot unless we took fire. We literally had to wait until the tracers were coming up even if we saw the gun emplacement. Yet a Chicago or NY LEO can’t bother to tell a wallet from a gun, or hold their fire if they don’t see the gun swinging their way? What’s up with not using a very bright flashlight if they can’t see? They expect me to. My local LEO’s are very good about lighting up the scene if visual ID is challenging.

  24. avatarChris says:

    Not sure what the problem is. You have a good 30-40 minutes to get your crap sorted out before the cops leisurely roll up.

  25. avatarJohn Moses says:

    Chicago cops are “highly trained”? Would that were the case. Very few officers I know would qualify for that moniker. Most of the crowd with which I associate are far better trained and in much better shape.

    • avatar16V says:

      It’s a patronage gig, or close enough. Poorly trained, and often out of shape, as are pretty much every top 100 major metro department in the US. Bar none.

      At least they aren’t as trigger happy as many of the major metros.

  26. avatarJeh says:

    I like cops, but this chief is a pig, one of the cops that give the rest a bad name. Now he lives in Chicago, so he was probably either brainwashed or beaten as a kid by the local gangmembers, whatever. But to threaten to have killed every CCPH is insane. Because yes lets say “were here to help” by doing the criminals job. Disgrace. I feel bad for his none brainwashed officers.

  27. avatarWiebelhaus says:

    He is a disgrace to the oath he swore, no respect for a pig, which is a cop who A. Doesn’t fly straight and B. Breaks his oath.

  28. avatarmatt says:

    Call the cops ASAP.

    Why? Especially in Chicago. And especially if McCarthy said the cops will shoot you. The CPDs murder clearance rate is 25. Keep in mind they define cleared as a arrest being made, not a conviction.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/04/chicago-murder-clearance-rate_n_2409947.html

  29. avatarJoseph says:

    McCarthy’s statement is an explicit threat, it meets every legal criteria I’m aware of to qualify as a “threat.”
    First. The idea that the average LEO is “highly trained” is ridiculous. They’re certainly somewhat trained. And sure there are some excellent examples of “highly trained” LEO’s out there but most LEO’s, as evidenced by any number of IGOTD awards on here, are not members of this group.
    Second, Robert, if you really want to descend into speculation and bombast then be my guest. You have every right to “discuss” the possibility of a friendly being injured or killed by LEO’s and other first responders during a DGU, that doesn’t make it fact. The fact is that as reported here on your site numerous times in the past the odds of being mistakenly injured or killed by police during a righteous DGU are statistically negligible. It doesn’t happen. Obviously police shoot people accidentally, but they have not shown any tendency to do so when responding to an actual call for assistance. In fact every incident that I could find occurs as a part of actions taken by the police without a complaintant, such as traffic stops, stop and frisks, no knock warrants executed at the incorrect residence etc.

    Please stop perpetrating the erroneous and fictional cautionary tale of LEO’s killing good guys on this site. Offer pertinent advice sure:

    1. Comply with any and all instructions from LEO’s promptly and exactly.
    2. STFU and don’t try to give a play by play.

    That’s really it. Telling people to “remember that if you carry a gun legally and then actually defend yourself with it you might be shot by the police” is just counter productive and offers prospective new CC’rs one more excuse to remain passive about their defense. The time and money involved in securing a CCW permit and weapon are steep enough barriers so one more time; STOP ADDING PSYCHOLOGICAL BARRIERS for new gun owners to overcome.

    Thank you.

    • avatarNobody says:

      “Obviously police shoot people accidentally, but they have not shown any tendency to do so when responding to an actual call for assistance. In fact every incident that I could find occurs as a part of actions taken by the police without a complaintant, such as traffic stops, stop and frisks, no knock warrants executed at the incorrect residence etc.”

      Yeah, that makes me feel a lot better. So as long as I don’t drive, walk the street, or sleep in my house I should be fine.
      Thanks for the tips!

      Sorry pal. Not trying to pick a fight, but if the steroid infested “public must be complacent/compliant officers” want respect and cooperation, they need to earn it.
      You know, like they used to when they thought of themselves as public servants.
      In the meantime, they can get off my lawn and don’t shoot my dog.

      People my age used to support the LEO folks. We were raised that way. WE DIDN’T CHANGE the way we were raised. They changed the way they treat us “commoners”.

  30. avatarGregolas says:

    Massad Ayoob covers all this and how to avoid getting shot by responding LEOs in his basic course. That alone makes the course worthwhile, but the whole thing is quality. You’ll never regret the money you spend on it.

  31. avatarLance says:

    Strange I see CCW and Security out shoot BIG police all the time on training ranges. We have a higher standard than they do. Cops are a BIGGER threat to public safety than gun owners.

    CPD is a bunch of incompetent idiots anyway.

  32. avatarJavier says:

    Whom does he really serve and protect?

  33. avatarLTC F says:

    Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fueher. If people put up with being threatened with summary execution by a supposed public servant, that’s where we are headed.

  34. avatardarkstar says:

    Hey, C’mon this is Chicago after all. Is anyone really surprised that this kind of thing is coming from the windy city?

  35. avatarChuckN says:

    “I don’t care if they’re licensed legal firearms, people who
    are not highly trained… putting guns in their hands is a
    recipe for disaster.”

    With this statement I’m sure we could make a serious case
    for disarming certain police departments, CPD among them.
    I’m curious to know what the percentages of CCW holders
    in Chicago and Illinois in general are veterans and retired
    LEOs. My guess: enough to make the chief eat his words.

  36. avatarJoseph says:

    I’m going to go out on a limb here, and I invite any LEO’s past or present reading this comment to back me up or shut me down as appropriate.

    Robert’s article makes the following comment:

    “In the fog of battle, in the heat of the moment, arriving cops are not going to see a firearm in a civilian’s hands and think “Maybe he’s the good guy!” They’re going to consider anyone holding a gun a lethal threat.”

    The first sentence is what I really take issue with. “The fog of battle.” Police are not soldiers, the way that I understand police is that they show up after a crime has been committed and apprehend a suspect. Of course if there is an iminent threat to their lives or the lives of others I have no doubt that a LEO would “drop the hammer” on a suspect. What I hesitate to believe is that a LEO gets a call to respond to “shots fired” and thinks:

    “Ok, I have no data or information. That means there is a lethal threat. I do not need to evaluate an evolving situation. I am responding to a lethal threat. Therefore my mission is to eliminate the lethal threat… by killing it. Not by aprehending the suspect.”

    When you (Robert, and others) talk about things like “the fog of battle” and LEO’s eliminating percieved “lethal threats” in the course of doing their job (which I wish once again to emphazise is to apprehend SUSPECTED CRIMINALS) the above quote is the kind of picture you’re painting in the minds of a reader. You are characterizing LEO’s falsely as Soldiers and you are basing your beliefs and thus your entire line of speculative reasoning on a fictional mischaracterization of what being a LEO entails. This portrait you’ve painted more closely resembles television than reality

  37. avatarNew Chris says:

    So if Chicago cops lack the decision making skills to responsibly carry a gun, let’s disarm THEM!

  38. avatarRalph says:

    I don’t get it. This pr!ck McCarthy threatens to shoot legal CCW holders who legally defend themselves and he gets a pass. Yeager threatens to shoot anyone who comes after his legal guns illegally and gets his CCW yanked.

    Is this country f^cked up or what?

  39. avatarAccur81 says:

    This man is not a cop. He is a an a$$hole politician in a police officer uniform. He’d be lost if he had to work a beat.

  40. avatarTotenglocke says:

    I maintain my position that as long as the police keep their policy of shooting law abiding citizens on sight, gun owners should publicly institute a policy of shooting police on sight.

  41. avatarFrankM says:

    He looks like the newspaper editor from Spiderman.

    • avatarChuckN says:

      I’d like to think that J. Jonah Jameson would be
      the one to make sure guys like McCarthy end up
      on the front page with “scandal” and “hypocrite”
      in the title.

  42. avatarChas says:

    “I don’t care if they’re licensed legal firearms, people who are not highly trained… putting guns in their hands is a recipe for disaster”

    THIS is why I don’t trust cops. What he’s saying is that he doesn’t give a good G%^ D@&* about the citizens’ constitutional rights.

    Chief McCarthy, you, sir, can kiss my ass.

  43. avatargringito says:

    Chicago’s Police Chief Gary McCarthy is surely well trained in shooting
    but surely
    not in thinking and speaking ….
    (BAD combination BTW…)

  44. avatarRKflorida says:

    Strange that the only a few cities have this problem: Cops shooting CCW citizens, other CCW shooting CCW people. Why doesn’t that happen in Atlanta, or DFW? Why is this only predicted to happen in Chicago?

    This man is a liar and all I can see is a scaled up version of Trumpka that other union thug.

    One more thing, let’s not confuse the total training for cops with their firearm specific training. EVERYONE I know that is a gun person, shoots more and better than the police in the 3 counties that are local. 300 rounds a year for quals is NOT a lot of shooting.

    • avatarAzimuth says:

      I was told as much by sheriffs deputies who use the same range I do. They told me they were disturbed by my rapid 2 shot defensive accuracy. Ya, I shot too well for their liking. As in, “I could be a threat to them someday if they ever had to come to my home and arrest me.” Huh? These 3 LEO’s made their point quite clear, and said so in no vague or uncertain terms.
      In their view, ..”armed citizens make our jobs that much more difficult.” Get it? In their eyes, we’re nothing but potential perp’s. Ergo, a firearm in the hands of anyone but them, is bad, even for a person with a CCW permit. Do these 3 Leo’s sound like Oath Keepers candidates to you?

  45. avatarTed says:

    With some of the PD response times we’ve been hearing about lately, after a DGU incident, you may have time to put away the firearm, call 911, give a detailed account of the event, move your family to a safe place, and then order a pizza.

    Seriously though – after a threat has been neutralized, It’s probably a bad idea to greet the police with a firearm in your hand.

  46. avatarBobthGrape says:

    I hate to tell Chicago’s Police Chief Gary McCarthy and any other police officer you are taking a job where you can be shot and possibly killed. It is not O.K. to take an innocent life just because you are unsure that someone isn’t going to kill you. It’s your job to take that chance. If you want a safe job then don’t be a cop, be a janitor or a truck driver or a mailman. Being a cop is like being in the military, you are going to be put in situations where you could be killed, so get over it. If you don’t want that risk get another job.

  47. avatarJoshinIA says:

    Ahhh yes because his policing tactics are working so well….500+ murders last year?

  48. avatarCameron S. says:

    Most “gun people” i know that CCW happen to practice a metric S$@#-ton. I’d say the members of my R&P club vs Chicago PD – my side would win.

  49. avatarensitu says:

    I’m reminded of South Africa where cops are untrained and very, very under paid
    They have been known to stalk and open fire on vechicles simply because the sun has set.

  50. avatarmiles says:

    and the police keep wondering why more and more law abiding citizens do not like to be around police officers…my mother who is in her late 70′s is terrified of the police.. the all back bdu’s and balaclavas have done a good job of striking fear into the people the police are there to protect..

    • avatarTotenglocke says:

      the all back bdu’s and balaclavas have done a good job of striking fear into the people the police are there to protect

      Well there’s your problem, you thought the police were supposed to protect people. Even the Supreme Court has stated that you’re wrong. The police are there to control people and make you afraid to disobey them. Since their entire agenda is to control your behavior by fear and intimidation, they perfectly fit the definition of a terrorist.

  51. avatarRon jones says:

    People who live in Chicago are retarded. They are not to be trusted. The police are only acting like this because of the level on stupidity they deal with every day. I lived there 24 years. Got fed up and now I live in the south. I hunt. Carry. Shoot and drink sweet tea. Best thing I ever did was to leave that state. I don’t know if its something in the air or what but the people of cook county deserve everything they get/don’t get. If they had any brains they would move. Anyone who knows about the south side of Chicago will tell you how bad it is. Black people don’t even go out at night for fear of there own people robbing and killing them. That’s not racism btw its a fricking fact! So if you don’t get it yet just know…. Chicago wrecks the whole state of Ill by making the laws for a mostly farming state. Is that retarded or what?

  52. avatarJ- says:

    That pretty much sums up Chicago for you: intimidate the law abiding citizens, ignore the criminals.

  53. avatarpat says:

    Sickago Style, oink, oink. More guns (and power) for the po po, less for the average citizen. Whats not to like (for ‘Big Gov)?

  54. avatarMark says:

    I believe a drone strike on Chicago is in order.

  55. avatarIvy Mike says:

    The more civilized (City-Statist) a person, the more they imagine they have THE RIGHT TO TAKE.

    “[The Native Americans] didn’t have any rights to the land … any white person who brought the element of civilization [city-statism] had THE RIGHT TO TAKE over this continent.” ~Ayn Rand, US Military Academy at West Point, March 6, 1974

    Looks like another Trail of Tears is upon us. In fact, City-Statism (Civilization) has been an 8000 year long Trail of Tears.

    “Civilization originates in conquest abroad and repression at home.” ~Stanley Diamond, In Search of the Primitive: A Critique of Civilization, p. 1

    It’s best to keep well away of the shitties.

  56. avatarA Brit in MI says:

    Why in a SHTF situation does an armed citizen have to employ great judgement when deciding whether to shoot/not shoot but the cops can just roll in and shoot anything/anyone that moves without fear of any repercussions?

    If one of us got into a bad situation and mistakenly shot at a good guy with a gun (as all the grabbers think would happen all of the time), then we would be dragged through the courts & end up in prison. If a cop does that? A few weeks of paid vacation at worst.

    Double standards!

  57. avatarA Brit in MI says:

    Here’s a good article on McCarthy from gunssavelife.com

    http://gunssavelife.com/?p=4732

    Not a nice guy!

  58. avatarJustAJ says:

    Just another “blood in the streets” naysayer with a side of “we’re gonna shoot your ass” thrown in. If the PD response was timely in critical situations, the CCW person would not have a need to draw. Fact is, if there is a CCW who has a DGU, chances are the BG or the CCW guy will be down before the PD responds. If the good guy is down, the BG will have run away. If the BG is down, then there is no need to have the gun out anymore, and the good guy should have reholstered at that point.

  59. avatarInBox485 says:

    Thinking that the CPD chief is an elitist asshat is an opinion. Most here share it. But saying that what he said was a threat is just stupid. He stated his opinion that even licensed firearm carriers would be idiots (his opinion, I care not), and that his officers would be instructed not to hesitate to shoot “just in case it was an idiot CCW holder” if somebody turns toward them with a gun in hand (which it would be to do that).

    That isn’t a freakin threat. That is an opinion that CCW holders are idiots. Coast to coast, officers are trained to shoot people that point guns in there direction. No shiznit.

  60. avatarjack_s says:

    4 Stars on each shoulder for a “Chief of Police”? Standing there trying to give a “Pattonesque” speech………. That narcissistic bastard should be FIRED immediately!

  61. avatarDave S says:

    course when you find the plainclothes officer with a gun out in your backyard, then you arent required to get shot either
    Chief, that sword cuts both ways

  62. avatarJon H says:

    Unsure if he realized the impact of what he was saying, as under self defense statutes he basically just gave every Chicago resident license to kill police and get off b/c their boss issued a public decree threatening their lives. I am NOT condoning this action by any means, but if I were an officer there I would certainly cash in vacation and sick leave until he is gone and that statement can be publicly retracted.

  63. avatarSzabla says:

    This police chief has just give the Law abiding Citizens a legal defense for killing any Police Officer who approaches them.
    He said they will kill you if you exercise your rights, you now are in fear of your life, in a purely self defensive way.
    He said the Police are now murderers in waiting, and the citizens have only one way from dying is to kill the Police officer first.

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