Quote of the Day: FOPA Be Damned Edition

 

“A working group led by Vice President Biden is seriously considering measures backed by key law enforcement leaders that would require universal background checks for firearm buyers, track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database, strengthen mental health checks, and stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors, the sources said.” - White House weighs broad gun-control agenda in wake of Newtown shootings [via washingtonpost.com]

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About Robert Farago

Robert Farago is the Publisher of The Truth About Guns (TTAG). He started the site to explore the ethics, morality, business, politics, culture, technology, practice, strategy, dangers and fun of guns.

69 Responses to Quote of the Day: FOPA Be Damned Edition

  1. avatarThomas M says:

    I’m not too worried about Firearms laws being passed at the Federal Level…at least not for the mean time. They are going to be preoccupied with the fiscal situations they keep created themselves and then give themselves credit for solving.

    That being said, that doesn’t mean these foolish legislative ideas can’t resurface after they’ve kicked the fiscal can down the road, for the trillionth time.

    I’m more concerned about legislation being passed at the state level. I live in Pennsylvania…but I will most likely be moving back to New Jersey or *gulp* New York City. The prospect terrifies me.

    • avatarLance says:

      I agree Blue states will try first the biggest guns bans.

    • avatarWilliam says:

      I know it’s a shocking fact, but they actually CAN think about and do more than one thing at a time. It’s folly to think they won’t try the thing they’re aching most to do.

  2. avatarPascal says:

    I could be wrong, but the FOPA registration provisions where limits on ATF not against new laws by congress.

  3. avatarShire-man says:

    FOPA has been “damned” for a long time now.

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/12/robert-farago/does-the-atf-already-have-a-national-gun-registry/

    Being just one example.

    Defacto tracking and registration has been with us all along. The government is just playing with the idea of admitting it.

    Most horrors and liberty trouncing talk is simply talk of what is already occurring more or less under the radar.

    If the government is proposing it today chances are the government implemented it yesterday.

    • avatarSCS says:

      Interesting. Never thought of it in those terms. I agree with your conclusion that is has already been implemented. Big Brother, indeed.

  4. avatarGreg in Allston says:

    “The White House is weighing a far broader and more comprehensive approach to curbing the nation’s gun violence than simply reinstating an expired ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition, according to multiple people involved in the administration’s discussions.”

    Doesn’t the WaPo use editors any more and where can I get some of that “high capacity ammunition”?

  5. avatarCameron S. says:

    Historically speaking, these owner lists have always turned into “door knocking” lists for subsequent confiscations.

    A registry is step 1 to any full-scale removal.

    And that is why it is forbidden in the FOPA. This simply will not be tolerated.

    • avatarRalph says:

      A registry by ATF rulemaking action is prohibited by FOPA. Congress can always change its rule. Just like those “permanent” tax cuts we’ve been hearing about, they’re permanent until Congress decides otherwise.

      But I agree that their ultimate goal is confiscation and the ultimate tool is registration.

      • avatarMatt in FL says:

        “…they’re permanent until Congress decides otherwise.”

        Exactly. Anything Congress can do, Congress can undo.

        One of the not-very-loudly-reported aspects of the fiscal cliff deal is that he catastrophic cuts to military and other spending — that “absolutely will happen on Dec 31, and there’s nothing we can do if Congress doesn’t reach a deal” — have not been avoided, they’ve simply been pushed back to March. We’re gonna do this all again in three months.

        • avatarWilliam says:

          Catastrophic military cuts? Does this mean Drone Man will be limited to only two new wars in 2013?

    • avatarLarry says:

      “Door knocking” depends on the door being answered instead of fired through. I believe it will be decades, at the earliest, before anyone is stupid enough to go knocking on doors, regardless of who tells them to.

      “Yes, sir, I’ll be right behind you when we go in!”

  6. avatarIke says:

    The most ominous quote in the article:

    “In addition to potential legislative proposals, Biden’s group has expanded its focus to include measures that would not need congressional approval and could be quickly implemented by executive action…”

    • avatarCurzen says:

      with those being “changes to federal mental-health programs and modernization of gun-tracking efforts by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives” and “the meeting also included significant discussion of mental-health issues, violence in video games and movies, and the poor quality of information contained in databases used to conduct criminal background checks”. Not all bad stuff IMO. With the actual AWB most likely being shot down in the House I’m glad that they actually are taking a broader view. Only making guns in schools illegaler seems to be a patently idiotic approach to prevent massacres.

      • avatarSivartius says:

        None of this will prevent another massacre. None of this will even mildly discourage another massacre.

  7. avatarCoyote Gray says:

    We need to start considering some passive resistence methods we can standardize across the country for all gun owners. Options to counter the most likely legislation to be forced down our throats. A concerted effort by all pro-2A citizens to totally scuffle the most agregious efforts of the government.

    • avatarRalph says:

      I don’t support passive resistance. I support massive resistance. Lawsuits, marches, demonstrations — there’s nothing passive about ‘em.

  8. avataruncommon_sense says:

    None of Biden’s measures will stop a raving lunatic. If laws, government policies, and law enforcement officers were effective, We The People — the good citizens of the United States — would NOT be victims of something like 2 million violent crimes every year.

    Like it or not, there are people among us who attack citizens. Either you can be prepared to defend yourself or you can trust the bad guy who is attacking you to be “nice”. I choose to be prepared.

    Make sure you contact all of your city, state, and federal representatives THIS WEEK and demand that they respect your right to protect yourself and your family with the tools of your choosing, not the tools of their choosing.

    • avatarRKflorida says:

      Somehow, Biden and Raving Lunatic seem to be a natural pairing in a sentence, don’t you think?

  9. avatarNick in IL says:

    Don’t we already do a Universal Background Check each time we purchase or transfer a firearm through and FFL? Are the talking about forcing private sales / inherited firearms to go through and FFL? How would this new law have prevented Newtown? I have an idea, lets make it illegal to shoot your mom dead and also make it illegal to steal her firearms, which you are not permitted to posses. While we are at it, lets make it illegal to shoot other people who are posing no threat to your well being or property. Oh, yeah, all those things are already illegal. Those laws did not stop the Newtown shooting and no law I have seen proposed so far has…

    • avatarThomas Paine says:

      but we need to do ‘something’. !

    • avatarCurzen says:

      their idea to have all sales require a background check coupled with a comprehensive database is to in the long run (think decades) reduce the number of guns filtering down to felons.

      • avatarThomas Paine says:

        why would you need a database if all sales went thru a background check at an FFL?

        Aren’t FELONS already databased by their criminal record? Why database law abiding firearms owners?

        • avatarCurzen says:

          because straw purchases I assume

        • avatarLarry says:

          Because of control, because of selective prosecution, because of stolen guns, but really back to item 1, there doesn’t need to be a reason, shut up and do what you’re told, or we will GET you!

    • avatarMark says:

      The left doesn’t bother with any examination of the history of the Second Amendment or the technical aspects of the guns to be regulated unless you count Fenstein claiming to have looked at pictures of guns. A perfect example of this may be found in Rep. Carolyn McCarthy’s (D-NY) discussion of her proposed assault weapons ban which would have regulated weapons featuring a barrel shroud. When pressured to explain what a barrel shroud is, McCarthy stated “I actually don’t know what a barrel shroud is, I believe it is the shoulder thing that goes up.” It does not interface with the shoulder in any way and it does not go up. The fact of the matter is, our legislators do not know what they are trying to legislate. The only fix for inappropriate emotional over-reaction are facts and logic which the left rejects outright.

      • avatarRalph says:

        Let’s keep them ignorant, okay? Because the more they know, the more they hurt us.

      • avatarBrad says:

        You should read about these idiot Senators and Reps in Illinois. When the NRA’s lobbyist for IL walked into the Senate Committee hearing and was holding a rifle stock (just the stock), the Senators crapped their pants. “Did you get police permission to bring that?” (a piece of wood). When Sen. Raoul (IL) was asked how they plan on registering mags, he said “We’ll figure it out.” The Federal garbage is the same thing, these idiots don’t even understand what they’re trying to ban. Barrel shrouds, I have one on my home defense shotgun, it came with it, the shotgun has NEVER left my house. Feinstein’s bill includes banning “rocket launcher” attachments…uh…I cannot buy an AR with a rocket launcher attachment, they are NFA Class III DDs. Ineptocratic, kleptocratic government. *sigh*

    • avatarBrad says:

      Nick,
      You’re in IL? Then you know that the ISP doesn’t use the NICS, it uses its own little proprietary POS system, FTIP. NICS data is purged, as required by law. FTIP data for backgrounds is retained indefinitely so if the ISP/SD/other local LEOs want to find out how many guns you own, they just look up your FOID #, run it against the FTIP database, and bam, they know how many guns you own. Not what kind, just how many are registered.

      We don’t need gun control, we need idiot control. We need psychiatrists with balls to actually commit people like Holmes and Lanza. Thanks to the ACLU, Connecticut’s commitment laws are VERY strict. Since he was over 18, it was up to him whether to commit himself unless he started threatening suicide or threatening other people…as in an imminent danger to self or others. So, I place blame on the ACLU. I also place blame on Lanza’s mother. What kind of idiot takes her mentally disabled kid shooting as a bonding activity? Then he plays Modern Warfare 3, he was obviously incapable of differentiating between real life and a video game. He should’ve been in a psych ward.

      And for the record, anyone who opposes FTF sales without an FFL as an intermediary, you’re right. A LOT of idiots sell guns to people they don’t know. I am not one of those idiots. I just sold three pistols, but I’ve known the buyer for almost a decade. I know the buyer’s family. This wasn’t some Craigslist type thing.

  10. avatarKarim says:

    I would think that “strengthen mental health checks” – was already covered under the GCA…..

    • avatarCurzen says:

      supposedly some states suck badly at actually reporting those with other legislation having weakened the comprehensiveness of reporting to the point of uselessness.

    • avatarIke says:

      “strengthen mental health checks”? Let’s start with Feinstein and Biden… then extend it to all Congresscritters and ATF.

  11. avatarDirk Diggler says:

    there needs to be organized boycotts of any retailer, esp a big box one like walmart, that participates in this nonsense. the folks down in bentonville are not country rubes like the intellectuals on the east coast think. . . .people likely to buy ammo, gun cleaning supplies, hunting gear and and targets at your store are also the ones likely to buy automotive, groceries, kitchenwares, clothing, and even electronics from your superstore as well . . . .

  12. avatarSasquatch says:

    At least one Senator must have been listening to her constituents:

    http://thehill.com/video/senate/275819-heitkamp-reported-obama-gun-control-proposals-extreme

  13. avatarIn Memphis says:

    I would like that civillians have the ability to track the sale and movement of all firearms sold by the government. Specifically south of the border.

    • avatarLarry says:

      Well, shit, isn’t that fun! *I* would like to know how many select fire weapons have been purchased by my local LEO agencies. Is there some reason I can’t find out? While we’re at it, I would also like to know just WTF a LEO agency needs with a machine gun. I mean ever, anywhere. Spraying bullets all over the place seems to not comply with protecting anyone, more like weapons of AGGRESSION, with no regard to those pesky incidental deaths of taxpayers. Myself, yeah, I would like my toy to be select fire, for the range and maybe even for shooting hogs, but in actual combat it would be semi only to conserve ammo and limit collateral damage. Why do LEOs have select fire?

  14. avatarBilly Wardlaw says:

    “…stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools…”

    Are you kidding me? These kinds of statements are evidence of a seriously failed capacity to reason. What homicidal maniac would be stopped in his tracks by the threat of “stiffer penalties” on his way to murder 20 children? In fact, about the only people this would exert any pause on is the armed Good Samaritan in the parking lot.

    Grabbers can’t be reasoned with because they genuinely lack that ability when it come to the topic of gun control.

    • avatarChris says:

      Exactly

    • avatarMatt in FL says:

      “What homicidal maniac would be stopped in his tracks by the threat of “stiffer penalties” on his way to murder 20 children?”

      The same one who would avoid going on a rampage because a $5/bullet tax made it too expensive.

      • avatarSaul Feldstein says:

        The Ritalin retard could have killed just as many people driving a car into a crowd of kids, but you will never hear the usurpers demand a 10 gallon limit to gas tanks.

        • avatartdiinva says:

          Or he could have done it quietly by kidnapping his victims and murdering them. Some serial killers have wracked up some pretty impressive numbers before caught.

        • avatarAlphaGeek says:

          “Ritalin retard”? Seriously?

          ADD/ADHD is not mental illness, and those of us who use medication to manage it don’t deserve or appreciate slurs like that.

        • avatarLarry says:

          You know, I sympathize. But there is still a question in my mind over whether such people should have their firearm rights restricted or denied. When we have a reasonable ability to evaluate who is or is not likely to shoot strangers (which is really the question, and the elephant in the room), then we can decide over which marginally handicapped people, (such as ADD/ADHD) should be allowed arms.

    • avatarOHgunner says:

      In a conversation with a friend who is a school principal, she said “After Sandy Hook, we reviewed our policies. We actually have pretty good plans in place. But if someone came to the door with a gun, we’d have no way of stoping them. We’d just implement lock down procedures. But if anyone really wanted to break in to a door, all they would need to do is break the glass and open it from the inside..”

      I wasn’t very convinced of the safety of their school…

      • avatarMatt in FL says:

        But schools aren’t designed to be fortresses. School shootings are black swan events, when you consider how often they happen against how many schools there are. Just like “banning all the guns” is a nonsensical solution, so also would be spending tens of thousands of dollars (per school) to harden it against intrusion. That’s tax dollars, and I’m already paying a lot for “everyone else’s kids” (because I don’t have any of my own).

        • avatarCarlosT says:

          But if “Something Must Be Done” then let’s do something that works. Hardening is probably futile, but armed response isn’t and the faster that response comes the better. That means armed people on site.

        • avatarRambeast says:

          The issue of tax dollars going to services that I will never (that I can foresee) use is a problem. Why am I having to pay for someone else’s children to be educated? Why do my hard earned dollars get taken and then given to someone too lazy to earn their own? This nation has been circling the drain since the 60s in terms of social welfare. When will this nation as a whole begin to take responsibility for it’s own expenses instead of expecting the collective to pay?

  15. avatarSaul Feldstein says:

    Now is the time to sit back and let the officials do their investigations.

    Conspiracy theories be damned, we know this govt would never do anything outlandish, like, try to drug an entire population.

    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/12/17/121217fa_fact_khatchadourian?currentPage=all

    • avatarRandy Drescher says:

      If you take a real good look at MSG you probably won’t need to be immediatly concerned with other population poisons, Randy

  16. avatarRandy Drescher says:

    What concerns me is the guns near schools thing. Around here there is a school every block it seems. Right now as a CC holder I can carry right up to the school, a non licensee must stay 1000 feet away. CC would be eliminated if the 1000 foot applied to card holders, Randy

    • avatarSaul Feldstein says:

      The gun free zone at Sandy Hook was such a success the govt just wants to build on it.

    • avatarMatt in FL says:

      Unless you want to believe (and that’s fine) that the intention is to discourage gun ownership/carry by making it more of a hassle, you have to believe that those laws would be written such that transit through the zone would be fine. We have similar laws here, but it specifically exempts those who are dropping off or picking up children at the school, so long as they don’t leave their vehicle while carrying. You can literally drive right up to the school building with a concealed weapon, as long as you stay in your car.

  17. avatarmatt says:

    backed by key law enforcement leaders

    Once again demonstrating that LEOs are the right hand of politicians. They will enforce the politicians edict whatever it may be, while at the same time saying they support 2A. They all ready grab guns from Americans on a daily basis just because they are felons, engaged in domestic battery (often is self defense), have restraining orders or own evil black rifles or standard capacity magazines. Should new gun control measures be enacted, and you do not comply with them, you too will be a felon, and they will grab your guns as well.

    • avatarRalph says:

      I agree. Not all German police were Nazis, but when the chips were down, they all acted like it. History repeats more than radishes.

      • avatarMichael B. says:

        The go along to get along crowd will fall in line.

        I highly recommend the book Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland

        All had the chance to opt out guilt and consequence free. Only one did. The rest, even despite intense misgivings, fell in line. Many later committed suicide because they could not live with what they’d done, but they were still weak murderous scoundrels.

  18. avatarSanchanim says:

    Between this and state legislation we see being thrown out there this is going to get ugly.

  19. avatarLance says:

    Shows a AWB is not the only thing to fear from Obama. Obama will try to make it illegal to even drive with your guns to the range make your guns stay at home. Overall call and email your Reps and Senators and say not to this just like a AWB.

    • avatarLarry says:

      Given the opportunity, Obama would also make it illegal to drive if you are not a liberal. Selective prosecutions of insane laws allows those in charge to accomplish things which intelligent people would imagine to be impossible. Who is controlling the current abuses?

  20. avatarGs650g says:

    Yeah , tougher laws against guns near schools are the answer. Bad people don’t want that on their permanent record.

  21. avatarpat says:

    Who are all these politicians who seem to be working on banning firearms?
    Are they……..liberal perhaps? Like we all dont know the answer.
    liberalism is a mental disorder.

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