Florida Deputy Threatens to Shoot Florida Concealed Carry Licensee in the Back by Robert Farago | Jan 20, 2013 | 203 comments facebook twitter linkedin email comments RKflorida says: January 20, 2013 at 12:50 Deputy seems off the track. If he is this excitable he needs to find another line of work. Reply Ivy Mike says: January 20, 2013 at 12:55 • If you dress down, you get treated like dirt. • If you dress up, you get treated like a star. Get your gear squared away. How To Dress Like a Man by Jeffrey A. Tucker http://www.lewrockwell.com/tucker/tucker38.html P.S. Perhaps it shouldn’t be that way, but it is. Even if you don’t like it, embrace the suck. Reply Nate says: January 20, 2013 at 13:10 So jeans and a button up shirt are dressing down? Sure his clothes has seen better days, but he just looked like a guy who works for a living. That deputy escalated things too quickly. I think it is obvious he joined the Sheriff’s office for other reasons than to “serve and protect”. Nothing that the citizen did here should warrant that kind of escalation of threatening, language, or mistreatment. I am just glad there were no animals present because this deputy seems very high strung. Officer could have removed the weapon or asked the CCWer to. I would write the county sheriff daily until I was sure this guy was properly reprimanded. TBH, this asshole should apologize to that citizen. Reply Ivy Mike says: January 20, 2013 at 13:28 Obviously, the officer is in error. But America is an Open Air Stanford Prison Experiment now. Those in uniforms rule. So wear a man’s uniform, and rule the social encounter. Job interview. Dealing with cops. Same hierarchical social interaction. The uniform makes the man. Hey, I don’t like it either. Personally, I’d rather run around naked or with just a loin-cloth, “gamboling about plain and forest“* hunting and gathering a free lunch off the land. But the paleolithic Garden of Eden and The Original Affluent Society** are long past. Embrace the suck. ____________ * Richard Manning (2005) Against the Grain: How Agriculture Has Hijacked Civilization. North Point Press. p. 24. ** The Original Affluent Society by Marshall Sahlins, University of Chicago Sam A Kersh says: January 21, 2013 at 10:34 “Officer could have removed the weapon…” And failed to do so and should be sent back to the academy on that one. The abusive behavior should draw him a 30 day suspension. Thomas Paine says: January 20, 2013 at 13:16 fully canvassed Brioni and John Lobbs down to the hood or tractor supply? no way. It’s all about environment. Reply Ivy Mike says: January 20, 2013 at 13:50 Sure, if you’re in a local environment. I wear my Carhartts and Stetson 12 miles to Tractor Supply, hardware store, or the feed mill. And the local deputies passing the other direction know me, and wave. Any other business about town, or the big city, I dress up. And it pays off. Uniforms rule in hierarchical City-Statism (Civilization.) Wear one and rule the social interaction. Sam A Kersh says: January 21, 2013 at 10:38 @Ivy Mike I were jeans and boots 7 days a week except when going to church, a funeral, a wedding. Even then I were my boots. I also wear a handgun except when called for jury duty. And we have A-hole cops in Texas like the one in the video. One is here in San Antonio. Badge No. 1209. JB says: January 20, 2013 at 13:20 Fashion tips from a man (Jeff Tucker) who likes to wear seersucker suits and a bow tie everyday? There’s a word for that. It starts with homo and ends with sexual. Reply Ivy Mike says: January 20, 2013 at 13:39 If that’s all you can think about, you must have your trucker clock on. Montesa_VR says: January 20, 2013 at 13:58 Is there some way to put Ivy Mike on ignore? Leo338 says: January 20, 2013 at 17:31 I wish there was a way, if you find one let the rest of us know. He is the new Mikeb302000. I have yet to see him post about the standing army BS today (I don’t know exactly what it is I don’t pay attention to his post at all and I am sure most on here do the same), although its still early. Barstow Cowboy says: January 21, 2013 at 00:35 I think this Ivy guy must be in the used suits business. Ivy Mike says: January 21, 2013 at 05:46 Bunch of whining pusscakes. The pissant bellyaching is as bad here as at HuffPo. frankgon4 says: January 20, 2013 at 22:35 Ivy , I strongly disagree. The cop needs another job. Maybe Mall security. Cops reaction was that of a bully and expect to hear that crap from a dressed down Gang Banger. Cop was trying to escalate the situation instead of bringing it under control. Reply Ivy Mike says: January 21, 2013 at 05:45 I agree the cop needs another job. He’s a jerk. But if you don’t think that uniforms create hierarchical status, you’ve got your head up your ass. Try going to a job interview dressed as you are now. BobtheGrape says: January 20, 2013 at 13:08 Deputy Andy Cox has to realize that in his line of work he may be shot at or shot. He doesn’t need to act like a punk, bully or thug as he showed in this vid. I agree with you RKflorida if he’s that excitable he needs to find another line of work. Thug cop defenders will say, “Well they can be shot in that job.” Well, so could I have been shot when I was in Vietnam, but that goes with the job and when I was in Nam and when I came home I don’t believe I acted like an asshole like Deputy Andy Cox. However, who would hire a guy with a personality like that, he has a personality like a kitty-litter box? The fellow he stopped wasn’t acting aggressively or suspiciously. The only thing I saw in that video was the bottom of his holster. Deputy Cox was behaving badly, much like a bully or a spoiled child. And someone needs to talk to him about his language. Reply WC says: January 20, 2013 at 14:37 Yes, that cop is being way too edgy, but the lesson here is stay in your seat during a traffic stop unless the cop asks you to get out. They are much more relaxed when you stay put. Reply jwm says: January 20, 2013 at 15:33 Stay in your car.both hands on the wheel and as soon as contact is made inform him you have a permit. In a perfect world this wouldn’t be needed. But i’d rather play by these rules than share jail space with bubba, even if it’s just temporary. pat says: January 21, 2013 at 00:10 And to think that many police want to disarm the public. Lawsuit first. Then, if it goes badly, home info of officer, to be handled…. out of court. There was a time when the police carried a S&W model 10 38 revolver and no body armour (now they are militarized from failed drug war). If police press for gun control like NY, they are dirty pigs. They can have 15 rounds in their G22’s while you or I can only have 7? Reply Chad says: January 21, 2013 at 07:13 Well, part of the reason for living in Florida, is so that you can wear shorts, a tropical shirt and maybe some sandals. In other words, embracing that whole beach lifestyle thing, shouldn’t mean you expose your gun. Concealed carry is a system. It’s a good holster, on a good belt, or IWB, shoulder rig, whatever keeps the damn gun concealed. That requires you spend some money on good equipment. Not junk. Reply Jon says: May 22, 2013 at 09:11 I’m going to go ahead and ignore the comments and remarks about this man’s clothing… I’m not sure how it has any relevance, nor is his clothing out of the ordinary at all, what so ever. This, coming from a suit wearing white collar working guy 5 days a week, I see no issue with how he is dressed… he’s driving a POS van…. not a ferrari, why are there high expectations of how this man should be dressed… wow.. Now, in regards to the situation at hand, the cop is not only out of line completely, but I’d say this is grounds for suspension. You are allowed to keep your gun in your car in any form you deem necessary while operating your vehicle, when you are a permit carrying citizen. While it is recommended, you do NOT have to notify the officer you are carrying a gun unless you wish too, or unless your vehicle is going to be searched in which case you must notify the officer on duty. Not notifying the officer is a choice a permit holding, law abiding citizen has, and for the cop to put this man on the ground is out of line, and is against policy. Good example of why some people should not become police officers, and another good example of why local governments need a more intense selection process. Source – A law abiding, current permit holding citizen who just recently finished his class, where they specifically covered rules of informing officers of your weapon. Reply Ivy Mike says: January 20, 2013 at 12:50 America has become an open-air Stanford Prison Experiment. http://www.prisonexp.org Reply Soccerchainsaw says: January 20, 2013 at 14:07 Hear!, Hear! (I remember studying this in a Sociology class called Crime & Punishment in the 1978-80 timeframe. I used to call it Rape & Pillage 101 back in the day.) Regarding the video itself: Comment 1: Nationwide Constitutional Carry now! No restrictions on whether we carry open or concealed. Demand it! Comment 2: Did the cop see a gun or did he see a holster? If he saw a holster then the gun was concealed. (Are there any holsters out there that completely conceal the gun but don’t hide the fact that it is a holster? This would be an interesting way of essentially open carrying in states that don’t allow such freedoms. Plus it has the added benefit of pissing off politicians that passed those screwy laws.) Reply William says: January 20, 2013 at 16:34 I live in Florida and have my Concealed Carry License. First, we are not required to inform law enforcement when we are carrying. We can choose to if we wish, but it is absolutely NOT required. Second, on 10/1/11, a new law was passed protecting concealed weapons carriers if we accidentally expose our weapons. see link. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2760517/posts This cop doesn’t know the law. And to threaten to shoot the guy in the back was WAY over the top. His behavior was blatantly aggressive, unnecessary, and most important of all….actionable. Sue the hell out of Citrus county I say. Reply Sam A Kersh says: January 21, 2013 at 10:46 “I live in Florida and have my Concealed Carry License. First, we are not required to inform law enforcement when we are carrying…” Glad to know that William. Here in Texas we are required to give the officer our CHL when he askes for ID if we are carrying. TX DPS aka Highway patrol recommends you say your a LICENSED to carry up from. Don’t say I have a gun as that might stress the officer out. Lars says: January 20, 2013 at 15:58 STFU! Reply JSIII says: January 20, 2013 at 12:51 I hope this guy sues the hell out of the deputy and the county! Just disgusting and unacceptable! Reply Mr Pierogie says: January 20, 2013 at 12:58 What are you, high? Cops get away with worse than that every day. A slap on the wrist is the worst that might happen here. Reply Ivy Mike says: January 20, 2013 at 13:03 Two weeks paid vacation during the internal investigation that always ends in nothing. Police forces need a week course in youtube public relations right now. Reply Rambeast says: January 20, 2013 at 15:54 Many, if not all, LE enjoys blanket immunity from prosecution. mongo says: January 20, 2013 at 12:52 this is a cop who clearly supports obama,,,who is for civilian disarmament,,,someone who Hitler’s SS would want.. Reply Jon says: May 22, 2013 at 09:18 Stupid comment. Incredibly. Reply William says: January 20, 2013 at 12:52 Florida. If I were president, I’d saw it off and sell it to Cuba for a boatload of Havana cigars. Bye, Comrade Deputy. Reply Nine says: January 20, 2013 at 12:56 Hey, I’m in Florida… I don’t want to go to Cuba… Reply BobtheGrape says: January 20, 2013 at 13:17 What? You don’t like cigars? Reply Bruce says: January 20, 2013 at 14:17 Please, please, keep Disney World. Frank Dio says: January 21, 2013 at 20:41 Thats ok it looks like Cuba is coming to you!! And Soviet Russia,and Red china and etc…etc. Reply Soccerchainsaw says: January 20, 2013 at 14:12 You’re going to disown the home of “stand your ground” and many CC permits signed by Charles Bronson because of one bad cop? Does everyone see how easy it is to blame the innocent for the actions of a few bad actors? Reply Ron says: January 20, 2013 at 15:04 No, it’s easier for some here to use individual acts of stupidity to justify their dislike for law enforcement in general. No amount of rational discussion will change that apparently. Reply duke nukem says: January 20, 2013 at 15:53 f*ck you man!!! we dont like you either!! Reply Justice06RR says: January 20, 2013 at 23:02 I hope you can say the same with NY, NJ, CA, and IL. Don’t be a hypocrite. Reply J- says: January 22, 2013 at 00:39 Hey now, Florida practically invented CCW back in 1987. Just cuz this cop didn’t get the memo is no reason to write off the whole state. Boy howdy, that situation got ugly in a hurry (and not just when his wife got out of the van). Reply Sam A Kersh says: January 22, 2013 at 08:31 J’s right. Yes, other states already had CCW or open carry, but Florida stated the movement that took hold. It took my state nine years and Shrub Bush to join the movement. Reply Silver says: January 20, 2013 at 12:53 And yet the antis argue that only people like him should have guns. Reply BobtheGrape says: January 20, 2013 at 13:18 Go figure. We need guns to protect ourselves from LEO’s like that. They are not all like that but they are getting more and more that way. Reply dom says: January 20, 2013 at 12:58 Typical cop. At least the man did not have a dog for the cop to shoot. Remember, the police are not the friends of free civilians. They are Obama’s front line. The patriots are in the military. The totalitarian thugs are in the police force. Reply Tex74 says: January 20, 2013 at 13:01 Hate cops much? Reply Doug says: January 20, 2013 at 13:54 Dom is right, cops shoot peaceful dogs every day. They shoot dogs behind fences, they shoot dogs on leashes, they shoot dogs inside houses when the home owner cracks the door open for them. The police act like an occupying force here in American, just watch the video. That cop is not acting outside of the norm. Reply Accur81 says: January 20, 2013 at 16:24 Yes, all cops are terrible. I turn into an evil rage monster every time I put my uniform on. matt says: January 20, 2013 at 18:43 So Accur81, how many times have you drawn your gun and threatened a American citizen with deadly force for no other reason than they were exercising their 2A right to bear arms? Molon Labe says: January 20, 2013 at 16:19 When they act like this, yea. And they like to shoot people’s pets. No one likes Thugs with Guns, even if they have a badge. Clean up your ranks! Reply Chas says: January 20, 2013 at 16:31 Do you think this deputy’s behavior is acceptable as someone who swore an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America? Or should he be able to conduct himself as a government thug? Reply Justice06RR says: January 20, 2013 at 23:08 Accur81, maybe not you. But how many fellow LEO’s do you know that have the bully syndrome? For every good cop, there’s a bad cop that paints a bad rep for the whole. I have a few LEO friends so I kinda see some of their biases first hand. I still support and respect all LEO’s, we know its not an easy job. Ivy Mike says: January 20, 2013 at 13:01 Are these the patriots you seek? “…militia members in particular tend to point out the steady increase in gun control…” “…violation of gun control legislation…” “…Larry Pratt, the head of Gun Owners of America (GOA)…” “…gun shows, in gun clubs, at survivalist workshops…” “…exploitation of recruits’ sentiments concerning topical issues such as the expansion of gun control…” Challengers from the Sidelines: Understanding America’s Violent Far-Right Combating Terrorism Center at West Point UNITED STATES MILITARY ACADEMY Jan 15, 2013 http://www.ctc.usma.edu/posts/challengers-from-the-sidelines-understanding-americas-violent-far-right Reply David W. says: January 20, 2013 at 13:16 Dude, that’s a military academy, aka the guys who go there are looking for promotions. They are officers, they don’t work for a living. Reply Hal says: January 20, 2013 at 13:35 Spoken like a jaded NCO. Ivy Mike says: January 20, 2013 at 13:59 Do officers reproduce by fission like all bacteria? 😉 I better reference that. LOL “They reproduce by fission … like all bacteria.” ~Starship Troopers (1959) by Robert A. Heinlein ChuckN says: January 20, 2013 at 14:23 +100 Heinlein rocks! CoryJ says: January 20, 2013 at 15:40 I’ve never shot a dog, or even pulled my gun on one. I would have to have it latched onto my apendages before I would shoot. I welcome CHL holders and would like to see open carry allowed here in Texas. I voted for Johnson last election, and believe the government has gotten too big for its britches. I am also a Marine Corps Veteran. Please keep your broad generalizations to yourself. Reply Billy Wardlaw says: January 20, 2013 at 20:58 …refreshing to hear. How many of your fellow LEO’s do you think conform to this outlook? Reply CoryJ says: January 21, 2013 at 09:12 Most of them, actually. At least within my department. Our Chief has weeded out the ‘bully’ types. Sam A Kersh says: January 21, 2013 at 10:55 “I welcome CHL holders and would like to see open carry allowed here in Texas.” so would I, Cory. When headed West into Nm & Arizona, I switch to open carry as I leave El Paso. And you are correct most officers are good guys but it only takes one to give the department a bad rep. I salute your Chief for getting rid of the bullies. Oh, and I’m former military too. CSM, US Army, retired Reply duke nukem says: January 20, 2013 at 15:55 sooo when bush was president they were their totalitarian troops too? according your logic?? jeez it seems stupid and stupider people are joining this site everyday Reply El Chupacabra says: January 20, 2013 at 16:03 Irony much? Reply KeithF says: January 20, 2013 at 12:58 Lawsuit Reply Tex74 says: January 20, 2013 at 12:59 Well…that escalated quickly…. Reply Mr Pierogie says: January 20, 2013 at 13:29 Hey buddy your tags are expire….OMG WTF IS THAT WHY DO YOU HAVE A GUN I’M GOING TO SHOOT YOU IN THE BACK!!! I was expecting James Yeager. Reply Molon Labe says: January 20, 2013 at 16:24 LOL Reply gloomhound says: January 20, 2013 at 13:01 (1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense. http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/790.053 Reply Thomas Paine says: January 20, 2013 at 13:19 thanks for answering my question. Reply Taurus609 says: January 20, 2013 at 13:20 @gloomhound, Missouri just passed the same type of law last August. And even though it is not mandatory to advise an LE you have a permit, if I was ever stopped I would….if for nothing else, just to make sure something like this “might” never happen! Is Ivy Mike, MikeB Gazzillion numbers in disguise? Reply Ralph says: January 20, 2013 at 14:23 I got stopped for a minor traffic infraction last year and disclosed that I was a licensed carrier to the cop. He couldn’t have cared less. In fact, he might have liked it, since he let me go with a warning. When I got hit by a car and knocked off my bike, I told the cops I was carrying and they couldn’t have cared less. Bottom line — I don’t have to disclose under MA law, but I did and the results were great. Reply Wmc says: January 20, 2013 at 15:57 I informed one at a roadblock for drunks. His response: ” Don’t go for yours and I won’t go for mine.” Charles5 says: January 20, 2013 at 16:06 I was pulled over several years ago for an improper lane change. I was driving my Dad’s 1998 Oldsmobile that has some electrical issues from time to time. The officer said I didn’t use my turn signal when I shifted lanes (I’m pretty sure I did, but it is a very real possibility that the light didn’t blink when I told it to). It was almost midnight and he seemed to be in a pretty pissed mood. He came up to the door and asked for my license and registration. I handed him my license and then told him that this was my Dad’s car and I wasn’t sure where he kept his registration. I told him I was going to open the glove box and that there was a pistol in there, for which I had a permit to carry. He asked me to slowly remove the weapon and then hand it to him in the holster. I did that and he went back to his car to run the serial number. He came back, returned it, thanked me for my cooperation and let me off with a warning…and he never even looked at my registration. I was so sure that he was going to be a jerk and give me a citation. However, I believe my openness, cooperation, and politeness (I said everything with a smile and in a calm voice) made a difference and got me off with a warning. Matt in FL says: January 20, 2013 at 13:29 That “unintentional display” law was amended into statute in June, 2011. The video was taken in 2009. (Source) Reply great unknown says: January 20, 2013 at 13:44 Good catch on the amendment, but where do you get that the incident occured in ’09? If would be instructive to learn what happened to deputy Cox in the intervening three years. Reply Matt in FL says: January 20, 2013 at 14:06 I have the luxury of having read this when it was posted by the originator. It has since gone viral and shown up virtually every gun related board on the internet, including ar15.com three or four days ago, and now here. Here’s the original. The owner of that blog is an Executive Director of Florida Carry, Inc. John Bergmann says: January 20, 2013 at 14:00 I was wondering this the whole video, some states call “brandishing” for simple brief exposure. My only question is does Florida compell you to inform LEO of your piece when stopped? In not then other than excitability, this LEO is so far out its disgusting. Reply Joke & Dagger says: January 20, 2013 at 14:05 In Florida, no need to voluntarily advise of carrying a properly licensed conceald weapon. If the officer asks, you must answer truthfully. Reply Matt in FL says: January 20, 2013 at 14:06 Florida has no duty to inform. Reply jwm says: January 20, 2013 at 15:36 No duty. But it could spare you a lot of hassle to just be up front with it. ST says: January 20, 2013 at 13:02 What an unstable basket case. Between him and the NYPD, perhaps we should insist that police alone be subject to a waiting period and 7 round restriction. Reply MikeM says: January 20, 2013 at 13:23 If we can save just one innocent life, then it’d be worth it 😉 Reply Carrymagnum says: January 20, 2013 at 13:09 I’ve only been pulled over once since I’ve had my ccw. Right after the officer asked for my license and reg I explained to him that I had my permit to carry and that my firearm was in the glove box with my reg. He said all he needed was my license in that case and that he’d be right back. He also told me not to make any sudden movements just in case. I always try to make my life easier and the cop’s less stressful by turning on the dome light and putting both hands on the steering wheel. Small courtesies like these have ensured dealing with the police is as pleasent as possible. Try it. All that being said I think this guy should have told the cop that he was carrying and had a permit to do so. I also think the cop should have been much less of a dick about it. Reply LLARMS says: January 20, 2013 at 13:18 Some people have a misconception that having manners with a cop is the same as bowing down to them. Kind of like driving through any sort of security check point at night, you turn your head lights off. If you get pulled over, keep your hands on the wheel, this simple act by itself will lower the (for which they are trained) anticipation level of the police officer. If it is night time, flip the dome light on. And crack the window until you can verify it is a real cop (so you don’t have to move your hand from the wheel to lower it after he approaches). None of these things are giving “into the man” – matter of fact, might just get a warning instead of a ticket for displaying some manners to the cop in lowering his stress level. – D Reply Gov. William J. Le Petomane says: January 20, 2013 at 13:47 That and most cops will either let you off or at least downgrade the fine if you’re polite. If you’re a jerk expect the largest fine possible. Reply Not Anon in Ct For Long says: January 20, 2013 at 20:54 I once got a massive downgrade of a ticket (“excessive speeding” to “failure to remove snow”) because the cop felt sympathetic towards me, as I had my mother in law in the car. Sam A Kersh says: January 21, 2013 at 11:10 “the cop felt sympathetic towards me, as I had my mother in law in the car.” You would have my sympathy too. 😎 Ralph says: January 20, 2013 at 14:26 matter of fact, might just get a warning instead of a ticket for displaying some manners to the cop in lowering his stress level. I absolutely did. By the time the cop walked away, we were both laughing. Reply Barstow Cowboy says: January 21, 2013 at 00:43 Nah, negative on everything you just said. When I get pulled over I try to IMMEDIATELY spring from the vehicle shirtless with my weapon clearly displayed in a cross draw rig, and I jump around in as threatening a manner as I can without crossing the line, then I wave a HUGE Gadsden flag and start yelling “MOLON LABE” at the top of my lungs. And that’s before the cop even gets out of his car. I show em who’s boss. Reply CG-23 Sailor says: January 21, 2013 at 01:44 I’ll just invoke “Poe’s Law” there and leave it at that. BobtheGrape says: January 20, 2013 at 13:21 I agree with you Carrymag. Reply Doug says: January 20, 2013 at 13:57 When I informed the cop I was armed at a DUI Checkpoint he searched me, disarmed me, put his hands into my underwear to search under my genitals and in my butt crack, handcuffed me, and stuffed me in a squad car while he ran all my information. Don’t tell the cops you’re armed if you aren’t required to by law. Ever. Reply Joke & Dagger says: January 20, 2013 at 14:08 Doug, are you an extremely attractive 22 yo female or something? Reply Carrymagnum says: January 20, 2013 at 14:11 Well if that happens to me I get a tugger and an excuse for a lawsuit. Win win Reply Bruce says: January 20, 2013 at 14:32 We were told in CC class, to stop the car, lower the window a little so you can talk, put your hands on the top of the wheel and at night, put the dome light on. Then tell the officer you have a weapon (not a gun. They learn to react to guns without thinking) early in the conversation. From what I understand in Missouri the Highway Patrol doesn’t care if you carry, and most other police in the state are the same way. Of course, every once in a while, you get to talk to an idiot. Taurus609 says: January 20, 2013 at 15:01 Bruce, from my older, retired, LE brother. When I mentioned the advice of turning on the dome light at night, he said, I don’t think the cops going to need your dome light on with their 100,000 or more candle power spot light aimed in to your interior! After thinking about it, I thought that was pretty funny! Barstow Cowboy says: January 21, 2013 at 00:45 Doug, where was that check point at? Are they still there now? Can you ask them to wait for me? Reply gloomhound says: January 20, 2013 at 13:15 http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49536&d=1311093292 Reply CG-23 Sailor says: January 20, 2013 at 22:25 Gloomhound, Legal requirement to inform the officer or not. It is still the smart thing to do even if you don’t have to. There is no law stating I must keep my hand off a hot stove, I have every right to touch the hot stove if I want to. Doesn’t make it a smart thing to do. You may find yourself in a situation where you would not only be right, but you would be dead right. Reply stateisevil says: January 20, 2013 at 13:16 Florida Carry is pursuing a lawsuit I believe. Remember, the right to open carry is not recognized in Florida and is a crime, making this problem much worse. Reply KD says: January 20, 2013 at 17:26 Florida has limited open carry. Reply Sam A Kersh says: January 21, 2013 at 11:15 Do you have a citation on that? Last I read Florida law open carry was illegal except on your own property. Reply Matt in FL says: January 21, 2013 at 19:20 The most common application of the “limited open carry” that KD refers to is covered in Fl. Stat. 790.25, which says, in part: (3) LAWFUL USES.—The provisions of ss. 790.053 (open carry prohibition) and 790.06 (concealed carry statute) do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes: (g) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive weapons from the United States or from this state, or regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for target, skeet, or trap shooting, while at or going to or from shooting practice; or regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for modern or antique firearms collecting, while such members are at or going to or from their collectors’ gun shows, conventions, or exhibits; (h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition; (j) A person firing weapons for testing or target practice under safe conditions and in a safe place not prohibited by law or going to or from such place; As I said, those (specifically the “to and from” passages) are the most commonly applied sections of the law for people to practice open carry. Note that this does not preclude hassle by law enforcement, whether rightfully or wrongly. When organizations have an “open carry rally” you will often see them at a waterside park, where they will open carry while carrying a fishing pole down to the dock to (apparently) do some fishing for a period of time, after which they will return to their vehicles and go about their day. Note that if you stop for gas on your way to your hunting and fishing trip, and you are seen open carrying, all bets are off. Are you legal? Probably. Might you be arrested anyway? Possibly. Don’t be a test case. JB says: January 20, 2013 at 13:17 A few points: -Yes, Officer Un-Friendly was a dick to arrest him. -The man should not have gotten out of the car. -The man should have stayed in the car, produced his carry permit along with his license, registration, etc. This would have signaled to the officer that he was armed but not a threat and willing to comply. -Generally, it’s a bad idea to drive around with expired tabs. -If you want to carry you should know how to deal with the cops. -Once the cuffs went on the man should have shut up. No need to hang yourself with your own words. That having been said, it seems the officer was a little too eager to protect and f^cking serve. Reply Blake says: January 20, 2013 at 13:27 The driver of the car was not being a jerk, rude or threatening in any way. The cop, however, with his threat of violence, escalated the situation far beyond what was necessary. A cop threatening to shoot a citizen in the back pretty much covers the “justifiable shooting” triad: Ability, opportunity and jeapardy. To explain: The citizen had every right to feel threatened and start shooting. Fortunately, for everyone involved, the citizen was a lot cooler than the cop. Reply JB says: January 20, 2013 at 14:04 Not to belabor the obvious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT-nePQuT-s No the driver wasn’t being a jerk. He WAS being foolish, acting too nonchalant when he was carrying a firearm. The cop did escalate the situation unnecessarily, but it’s safe to say the criminal courts won’t see it that way. Your suggestion that the driver would have been justified in shooting the cop, the cop having threatened him (again, AFTER the driver displayed poor judgement in his actions to that point), also probably wouldn’t pass muster even if you employed Jesus Christ as your defense attorney. If the driver took a little time to educate himself on police interaction the incident probably would have ended with a ticket at worse. Reply Blake says: January 20, 2013 at 14:21 I think you’re missing my point. The cop, for no good reason, threatened to shoot a civilian. Tell you what, put a gun on your hip, as an ordinary citizen, and go threaten to shoot someone. Heck, even without a gun, threaten to shoot someone. See how long it is before the cops show up and, at the very least, make you answer some very difficult questions. Cops are not above the law. If anything, Cops are supposed to be held to a higher standard. This video should scare the living daylights out of anyone who has a CCW. Threatening to shoot someone is not a threat to be made just because you think it will make your point. Such a threat is serious business and not “just words.” JB says: January 20, 2013 at 14:50 Blake, I agree that cops should be held to a higher standard. I don’t disagree with anything you’ve had to say in spirit or principle. Our disagreement is on a matter of practicality and the way the justice system works. Consider this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFEHlkr0lHs I’m sure most police still operate under the “21 foot rule”: If you’re within a cop’s invisible 21 foot radius they can use lethal force to defend themselves. This is how they get away with shooting a guy with a knife, or in the above, a golf club. Again, consider the Andrew Lee Scott shooting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FASrD5xaR0A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDbUudlMDgI Yes, in essence, cops do have more rights than you do. It sucks, but that’s reality. Blake says: January 20, 2013 at 15:13 I agree the criminal justice system would, more than likely, take a different view and we’d have a citizen in jail, if not in the morgue. Worst case, we have a dead cop and a dead citizen. There are so many ways this situation could have spiraled out of control, all because a cop lost control over the sight of a citizen legally carrying a firearm. The cop should have been fired, on the spot. A mistake like this is so egregious, and the margin for error so slim, there should be no second chance and hope the cop learns from his mistake. Make the cop pay the price and hope others learn from his mistake. JB says: January 21, 2013 at 11:55 I agree the cop should be fired. Although this incident pales in comparison to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kassP7zI0qc That cop, Daniel Harless, got fired but according to this he’s just been cleared to be re-instated: http://www.cantonrep.com/news/x2105837634/Fired-Canton-officer-Daniel-Harless-wins-back-his-job JB says: January 21, 2013 at 12:22 More proof not needed. http://danielharless.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/COwO8.jpg Outlaw says: January 20, 2013 at 20:38 The fact that we’re even using the term “civilian” when describing a CITIZEN who is interacting with a police officer shows how far we’ve come. They’re acting like an occupying army in many areas rather than public servants. Hell, an occupying army might actually behave better than what we saw in this video. Reply JB says: January 21, 2013 at 12:08 Good point. This is why I hate “dynamic entry” which produced the Waco siege and countless other horrific incidents like this one: http://reason.com/blog/2012/08/10/st-paul-cops-shoot-dog-in-wrong-door-rai great unknown says: January 20, 2013 at 13:20 Lawsuit indeed. Cop claims the victim never told him he had a permit, yet the video clearly has the statement “I’ve got a permit” before he was handcuffed. No violation of “open carry” if done inadvertently. Cop reacted instinctively and probably in panic, but made some rather stupid statements: I’ll shoot you in the back, etc. Very likely, a product of his training: it’s us against them. Assume every citizen is a dirt-bag, terrorist, cop-killing criminal. Unless, of course, he’s a member of a protected class. The motto of the many police departments: To Serve and Protect. Today that means, to serve the State, and protect out pensions. Next time you see a mayoral candidate, ask him how he intends to punish these kinds of violations. Reply BobtheGrape says: January 20, 2013 at 13:30 great unknown your statement “…and probably in panic.” is probably the case. However, when you panic then you stop thinking and you do dumb shit. If that deputy panicked just because he saw the bottom of the guys holster then he needs to find another line of work. Would he have pissed himself if the guy had drawn down on him and started shooting. Cops, the military and pilots do not need to panic and if you do panic you must know how to supress it and THINK! You can’t use “Well, I panicked” as an excuse. Reply great unknown says: January 20, 2013 at 13:52 My point exactly. His training should have included teaching how not to panic. And if it didn’t work, neither does he. Anything else is malfeasance on the part of the LE organization. As you pointed out, an airline pilot who panics is not put on two weeks paid administrative leave, then put back at the controls of a jumbo jet. Reply Mike C says: January 20, 2013 at 16:38 Actually if this happened in 2009 accidentally displaying a concealed firearm was a felony! The law was changed in 2011 to make it legal. But the cop is still a jerk and broke the law himself by threatening to shoot the man in the back. Reply Tom in a boat says: January 20, 2013 at 13:20 I always put both hands out the window when stopped, in plain view of the approaching patrolman. Life is nerve-wracking enough without doing everything I can to set the public servant’s mind at ease. It amazes me how often some individuals in the police tend to get nutsy so quickly. Reply Matt in FL says: January 20, 2013 at 13:32 I once overheard someone espouse the “engine off, lights on, hands out the window” method, only to hear an LEO respond that if he saw you stick your hands out the window where he could see them (without him asking), he’d know you’d done this before, and it likely wasn’t just for an expired tag. He did not mean that in a good way. Reply Randy Drescher says: January 20, 2013 at 14:16 Thats what I did on my one expired plate stop. My CC instructor said you don;t ever want to use the G word, just hand over your license & CC permit at the same time. The cop in this case was very friendly & even asked what I was carrying in a interested gun person tone of voice, Randy Reply 6 gunner says: January 20, 2013 at 13:26 the closer you get to the oceans the crazier you get. Or conversely, the crazy people seek out the salt water. Reply Hums says: January 20, 2013 at 13:28 I think it bears repeating that in Florida it is not a violation to accidentally flash your carry pistol nor do you have to tell the police you are legally armed. That said most cops don’t actually know anything about the law the courts and legislators order them to enforce so it’s best to no push your luck. Reply Matt in FL says: January 20, 2013 at 13:30 “I think it bears repeating that in Florida it is not a violation to accidentally flash your carry pistol…” As I noted above, this video was taken in 2009. The “unintentional display” language was amended into statute in June, 2011. Reply JPD says: January 20, 2013 at 13:29 Want to “solve” the violent gun crime in this country? Easy. When a crime is committed with a firearm, convict EVERY criminal to life in prison, with no possibility of parole. While you are at it, if a firearm is purchased legally, and the purchaser KNOWLINGLY allows another to commit a crime with it, same punishment. Bring back prison farms. Take flat screen TV’s, recreation rooms, Nautilus workout equipment, cable tv, OUT of the prisons and jails. It is supposed to be punishment, not CLUB MED! Reply Randy Drescher says: January 20, 2013 at 14:24 A guy in prison,in a wheelchair, couldn’t see the TV, so he filed a civil rights disability lawsuit & the prison then put a cable & TV into his cell. Torture is illegal, Randy Reply Ralph says: January 20, 2013 at 14:30 I was right there with you until you wrote “no cable.” That’s just cruel. Reply Hal says: January 20, 2013 at 13:30 So based on Gloomhound’s citation, if accurate, momentary and accidental presentations are a-okay in FL. I am usually the guy on here urging others to avoid armchair quarterbacking. However, in this case it seems pretty cut and dry: 1) Complete and total lack of furtive movements or other violent indicators 2) Overreaction/unprofessionalism on the part of the deputy 3) lack of understanding of FL concealed carry law. 4) I only watched 2/3 of this, but I DID hear the LEO state that the gentleman was under arrest. Where is the miranda warning, deputy? Fail. My only question is whether FL requires CHL holders to notify LEOs when they are carrying concealed. In TX we are required to notify. Other than that, from one LEO to another, this guy shouldn’t be allowed to be a mall security guard let alone a deputy. I hope he loses his badge. BTW, nice liad bearing suspenders. Buy some belt keepers dummy. Reply Mike C says: January 20, 2013 at 16:42 Florida does not require notifying law enforcement that you are carrying, but if they ask you to step out of your vehicle it is probably a good idea. Also when they run your license it comes up that you have a concealed carry permit. Reply Matt in FL says: January 21, 2013 at 19:03 “Also when they run your license it comes up that you have a concealed carry permit.” Wrong. Reply Sam A Kersh says: January 21, 2013 at 11:48 “My only question is whether FL requires CHL holders to notify LEOs when they are carrying concealed. In TX we are required to notify. ” Not exactly. Under GC §411.205 if a magistrate or officer asks for ID and you are carrying you are required to produce your TDL or other state issued ID and your CHL. Texas DPS recommends that inform an officer you are LICENSED to carry ASAP, but not say, “I have a gun,” as that immediately puts the officer in defensive mode. http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/GV/htm/GV.411.htm Reply NickS says: January 20, 2013 at 13:37 Traffic stops are one of the most dangerous activities police officers engage in, along with domestic violence calls. They are unpredictible situations that the officer must confront with little to no knowledge of what might be encountered. The driver of the van appears to have done several things that made the situation worse than it should have been. Yes, he should have stayed in the van. Yes, he should have informed the officer that he was legaly carrying a concealed weapon and possesed a permit to do so, prior to reaching for his wallet. Despite this, the officer responded poorly by threatening to shoot an otherwise compliant individual. The officer chose to escalate the situation in a manner that can hardly be considered professional. Regardless, this is a single deputy. I have no doubt that there are others like him, but remember, before you swing the brush too broadly, there are many fine men and women in uniform who support and stand by us as we fight to preserve our rights. We can only hope that they outnumber the sort of badged-bully depicted in the above video. Reply Doug says: January 20, 2013 at 13:59 “Traffic stops are one of the most dangerous activities police officers engage in, along with domestic violence calls.” Totally untrue. The most dangerous activity that police officers engage in is DRIVING! FAR more cops die in auto accidents than anything else, to include DV calls and traffic stops. Reply Sam A Kersh says: January 21, 2013 at 11:57 That’s an overstatement of facts. According to the FBI’s data in 2011 72 officers were feloniously killed in the line of duty while only 30 were killed as a result of an automoblile accident. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/2011/leoka-home Reply Chris Mallory says: January 20, 2013 at 16:03 The 99% of bad cops make the 1% of good ones look bad. Reply Carrymagnum says: January 20, 2013 at 16:10 Stop mouthing off about the people we need on our side should shtf 2A wise. Sure there’s a few Farvas out there, but rest assured they get plenty of shit from their coworkers for being tools. If you don’t get the reference do yourself a favor and watch Super Troopers. Thank me later. Reply Skyler says: January 20, 2013 at 13:42 It find it curious that he strategically placed the woman in front of the camera to block he view of manhandling the gentleman. Incidents like this make me really despise police officers. Reply Robin says: January 20, 2013 at 13:56 No matter what any law states, not informing a police officer that you have a firearm is a right enshrined in the 1st and 5th Amendments. The right to free speech includes the right to not speak and you are never required to testify against yourself. NEVER tell the police anything. Keep your trap shut. Reply Carrymagnum says: January 20, 2013 at 14:26 I’d rather go with the method that my life has proved tried and true. I have gotten out of some instances where I absolutely deserved tickets by being polite and forthcoming like I mentioned in an earlier comment. I advise you to try it next time you blatantly blow a red light. it’s gotten me out of that twice. Reply Ralph says: January 20, 2013 at 14:32 +1 I’ve disclosed twice and been treated very well both times — in freakin’ gunphobic Massachusetts. Reply Carrymagnum says: January 20, 2013 at 14:40 May have seen flying pigs if you looked up. David-p says: January 20, 2013 at 15:12 I disclose every time and in indiana you do not have to. I simply hand them my concealed carry card with my driver license. The worst that has happened is the officer asked if it was on my person and when I said no he said since you have a weapon in the car do you mind stepping back to my car, which I did. He even said that he was going to write me a ticket but since I informed him of the weapon he was just going to give me a warning. Another time I did the same thing and the officer took a look at my licence and my permit, he ran my name and when it came back clear he told me to have a nice night. If you live in a state where you have to tell them, then tell them because if they find out then it goes down as a gun related crime and I have enough money in them that I don’t want to lose them. I you live in a state that you don’t have to tell them, then do what you want but I am going to tell them. It has saved me quite a bit of money already. Outlaw says: January 20, 2013 at 19:47 You’re a lawyer, Ralph. You should know better. Robin says: January 20, 2013 at 16:12 I am always polite to the police. It is the way I was raised. The last time I received a ticket, I was trying to avoid an accident. The police officer lied under oath and when I cited the appropriate Kansas traffic law I was following, the judge didn’t care. He even told me so in court. That isn’t freedom or justice; it is a crime. I have no respect for any officer that lies and I will never respect those that allow fellow officers to get away with things like that. The only police officers I respect are the ones I know personally as my neighbors. Respect and compliance are two different things. Reply Carrymagnum says: January 20, 2013 at 16:19 You dealt with one dick and you’re letting it taint your opinion on some 600,000 individuals. I’m being generous and assuming you personally know 100,000. Iligitime non corabundum. Translation: don’t let the bastards get you down. Robin says: January 21, 2013 at 10:29 I’m not applying anything to any group of people. I don’t trust police just like I don’t trust some guy on the street that I don’t know. I also don’t think that anyone who gives up their God given rights just to save some money or hassle has any courage or principles. I’m certainly not going to believe, or trust, them. If you can’t get police and the courts to follow the law then you have a moral imperative to oppose them. The correct phrase is “Illigitimae non carborundum”. Carrymagnum says: January 21, 2013 at 14:17 Looks like I need to brush up on my Latin. Sorry won’t happen again. TangledThorns says: January 20, 2013 at 13:57 The cop comes off as a dick but the driver should first stayed in the vehicle and mentioned the permit first thing to the LEO. I fault the driver in this. Reply Doug says: January 20, 2013 at 14:00 I’m assuming his window was broken and didn’t roll down as to why he hopped out of the van. Reply Bill says: January 20, 2013 at 14:16 No way is this the driver’s fault. The deputy clearly has no business being an only one. I don’t know about Florida, but the cops vary by State. When I lived in SC, they demanded you get out of the vehicle. When I moved back to IL and got pulled over, I got out of my truck as I was just coming here from SC. The IL State trooper was highly pissed I got out and screamed at me to get back in my vehicle. Reply Ralph says: January 20, 2013 at 14:33 Yeah, what is it with cops and screaming? They sound like my ex-wife. Reply Joel says: January 20, 2013 at 14:32 Numerous mistakes here, by both parties. Florida law does not require a citizen to inform an oficer on first contact that he/she is armed. It’s a matter of personal judgement and I have no doubt that most reasonable officers would appreciate your honesty, but it’s not required. The driver hopped out of his vehicle without being told to, a definite mistake. Sit still, keep your hands in plain sight and wait for instructions. It’s simple common sense but this driver didn’t exercise common sense. But from there on in it’s all on the cop. Florida law was changed a couple of years ago to eliminate accidental, unintentional, momentary display of a concealed weapon as a violation, and this cop should have known that. He should have also known that the driver was under no legal obligation to inform the officer that he is a concealed carry licensee. Having accidentally discovered that the guy was armed, but observing that he was not acting in a threatening manner and was just retrieving the requested documents, the cop could have asked for the CC license and secured the weapon until he was finished doing his duty, but instead he went off half cocked and the results are recorded. Enough blame to go around here. Reply Paul M says: January 20, 2013 at 14:57 Nice uniform officer. Brand new? Hate to admit that on the simple facts, what I saw was a gun appeared before the man said he carried or had a permit. That goes to the cop. The cops behavior? Maybe he should look into swimming pool maintenance or Real Estate management. Reply Gregolas says: January 20, 2013 at 15:04 Massad Ayoob covers this in his basic class. I used his procedure when my daughter totalled our van and broke my foot. The responding officer asked if I was okay as I sat on the curb. I said fine but could only hop. I was carrying with an OWB rig under my jacket as we were on the way to church. I said, Officer, I’m licensed to carry concealed. How do you wish to proceed? He replied,”Just keep it concealed and we’ll have no problem.”.I gave it to my wife before the ambulance arrived. Ayoob warns: Don’t say “gun” it makes cops react nervously.Also, never get out of the vehicle until told to. They’re taught it’s a prelude to an attack. Reply mark says: January 20, 2013 at 15:14 As a former LEO I have to agree with those who fault the driver’s foolish behavior–which is not to excuse the officer’s conduct in every respect. On the occasions that I was stopped while off duty my practice was to stay in the car, put both hands on the wheel, and when the officer approached inform him that, just for his info, I had a firearm in the car. Their invariable practice was to ask, politely, why I had a firearm in the car, and that allowed me to explain and, upon request, furnish all relevant IDs. Getting out of the car was a big, big mistake. Second only to driving with expired tags. A little understanding on the part of the citizenry–armed or unarmed–that traffic stops are perhaps the single most dangerous thing cops do is helpful. They’ll appreciate your understanding and treat you accordingly–usually. Reply Chris Mallory says: January 20, 2013 at 16:00 Then maybe the government employees need to make fewer traffic stops, especially for paperwork issues like expired tags. A citizen’s rights should never take second place to a government employee’s safety. Reply Accur81 says: January 20, 2013 at 17:17 Or maybe just put the proper tags on your car like I have on mine. Easy fix. Reply Sam A Kersh says: January 21, 2013 at 12:05 Tags can be stolen off your vehicle. Happened to me once. The officer stopped me for that and then after moving me to the back of my vehicle started to open the driver’s side door. I had my keys in my hand so I pushed the button and locked it down before it was open. While less than happy, the officer was aware I knew the limits of their search under a traffice stop. I had just renewed my tag and told the officer who then ran my plate and found I was telling the truth and let me go about my way. I recommend all, including any LEOs here, to read up on Terry Stops. Gregolas says: January 20, 2013 at 17:17 Remember, the LEO is also a citizen. What’s on his mind is that a traffic stop is where he is most likely to be injured or killed on the job. Of course, this doesn’t relieve him of the duty of courtesy to others and to follow the law, but his #1 rule is to get home alive at the end of the shift. Wisdom on both sides was called for here. Both citizens failed that test to some degree. Reply louis Ringe says: January 20, 2013 at 15:49 Seems many of you have never been on the done a traffic stop. 1 FIRST RULE PUT YOUR HANDS ON THE WHEEL AT 10 AND 2 THE FIRST WORDS OUT OF YOUR MOUTH SHOULD BE I AM CARRYING A GUN. I have stopped people with guns and been stopped carrying a gun. This guy was just STUPID. 2ND don’t come bouncing out of your car. the boob is lucky he didn’t get introduced to a felony stop and eating pavement. Reply Chris Mallory says: January 20, 2013 at 15:59 The citizen was in the right here. If the government employee doesn’t like it, then the government employee needs to find another line of work. A citizen’s rights are more important than any government employee’s safety, including yours. Reply Lars says: January 20, 2013 at 16:09 Louis-There is no law stating that a conceal carry holder has to tell a police officer they are armed. I admit, the guy should of stayed in his car, worst mistake he made in the video, but permit holder only has to inform officer he is armed if they are ASKED. Reply louis Ringe says: January 20, 2013 at 16:49 I am not talking about law. The FIRST thing they teach you when going to a CCW class ( have given them in CA for 7 years ) is the first thing out of your mouth should be, I AM CARRYING A GUN and let the LEO take from there Reply Sam A Kersh says: January 21, 2013 at 12:08 “…the first thing out of your mouth should be, I AM CARRYING A GUN…” Is the wrong thintg to say in Texas. You should say I’m licensed to carry… Mike C says: January 20, 2013 at 16:49 You should never use the word “gun” in the initial contact with a LEO, probably the best phrase to use is “I am lawfully carrying a concealed weapon how would you like to proceed” saying the word gun automatically puts many officers in a state of panic. Reply Chris Mallory says: January 20, 2013 at 15:57 Government employee Cox needs to spend the rest of his life in prison. Reply Lars says: January 20, 2013 at 16:07 It’s cops like this that give cops a bad name. Not only did he threaten to kill him by shooting him in the back, he harassed, detained and threatened him with arrest for nothing. Conceal carry does not require you to permanently secure weapon so it is not visible. A shirt blowing in the wind exposing a concealed gun is not a violation of the law. There is also no law that states a person lawfully carrying has to inform a police officer they are carrying, unless they are asked. Reply Jeh says: January 20, 2013 at 16:07 Excuse my ignorance but can someone explain to me why things work the way they frequently do? Why do officers who brutally break the law on camera get away with a two week paid vacation, yet fighting back against an abusive officer whose clearly out of bounds and threatening you, lands you in prison? Where’s the justice? Reply Jean Paul says: January 20, 2013 at 16:26 I live in Citrus County, where this incident happened. Our sheriff has hired nothing but young, aggressive, hotheaded, ex-football player assholes for years. It sucks. He keeps getting re-elected because the senior citizen voting bloc loves him, but he’s a terrible sheriff. The budget for CCSO is huge. He issued FN Five-Sevens to the courthouse staff. How much do those cost to operate? Each deputy has an $800 TASER on his belt. The CCSO has airboats, a plane, a helicopter, an armored vehicle, motorcycles, bikes, offroad vehicles, and multiple boats. I’ve had a few interactions with the deputies, usually as a complainant, and I have to say they’ve been OK to me, but I’ve heard multiple stories of rude and disrespectful deputies who are far too quick to draw their handgun. Reply Highvoltage says: January 20, 2013 at 16:26 Cops, by the nature of their work, deal with people that would do them harm, without hesitation. They also are supposed to have the public’s best interest at heart. That said, I’m sure this deputy, like every police officer I’ve ever met, wants to make it home at the end of every shift. I’m not saying he’s 100% in the right, but instead of looking at it from “government employee” out to harass, try to put yourself in his shoes. He’s just pulled over a motorist, that he knows nothing about…could be a law abiding, upstanding citizen, could be the opposite. I’m not sure if Florida has a duty to inform clause to their CPL law, but even if they don’t, look at the way this happened. The driver gets right out of his van. The officer doesn’t know his intentions, and when he unexpectedly sees a handgun, he has to react quickly, with authority. Common sense is to wait in your vehicle, hands visible to the approaching officer, and wait until he contacts you and directs you what to do. I always inform the officer whether or not I’m armed. (Required to) I always roll down all windows, turn on my interior lights, and ask before I reach for anything. Treating an officer with respect, and politeness, plus helping put him on ease, does nothing but help both parties. I’ve been stopped several times while carrying, and following the above, never received anything other than a polite warning, even when clearly deserving a citation. I usually get “don’t show me yours, and I won’t show you mine”. I’ve even had a good conversation about different guns after the officer asked what I carried and why I chose it. I’ve never had an officer take my gun, often they don’t even ask to see my CPL (assuming that since I informed them, and that it’s referenced to my DL, it’s valid) The deputy may have been a bit harsh with his language, but he has to take control of any situation that could be potentially threatening. Hesitation could get him killed. If the driver had used more common sense, the whole thing would have been a non-incident. Now had the driver done that, and then had the deputy over-react, that would be different, and I’d totally be on his side. By acting the way he did, and then exposing his pistol, he set himself up for a negative experience for everyone involved. Reply Outlaw says: January 20, 2013 at 20:33 Jesus Christ. If he wanted him to get back in his car he could’ve ordered him to do that. This deputy is out of line, plain and simple. So many sycophants in these comments section that it’s ridiculous. Reply Carrymagnum says: January 20, 2013 at 20:59 I’m not a sychophant. I’m just not trying to break some guys balls while he’s at work. I’m not rude to them until they are rude to me. Kinda something I live my life by. Reply Robin says: January 21, 2013 at 10:35 Airborne! jwm says: January 20, 2013 at 16:46 Another example of the need to be the “gray man”. Don’t drive around in a vehicle with expired tags. Don’t run red lights. It’s been 16 years since I was pulled over last. It’s really not that hard to do. Stay off their radar and you’ll not need to find out what kind of mood 5-0 is in that day. Reply Robin says: January 21, 2013 at 10:34 Just obey the law and you are good to go. I’m not being sarcastic, either. My sons are always reminding me of this when I forget. They seem to absorb lessons better than I. Reply Cecil B Demented says: January 20, 2013 at 17:17 This officer is so out of line, it’s unbelievable. For one, there is no duty, at all, in the state of Florida to disclose to a police officer that you are carrying unless he asks you directly. For another, the man did not brandish a weapon: 790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.—If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, There was nothing careless, angry, rude or threatening about a momentary exposure of a weapon while reaching for something in the vehicle. And lastly, last year the Governor singed the “momentary exposure” law into effect: 790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense. I’d advise this guy to call a lawyer and sue the department, and more importantly to see that this officer, who is far to excitable to be patrolling in public, be confined to desk duty or find another line of work. Reply CG-23 Sailor says: January 20, 2013 at 17:26 To all of you anti-cop A-holes that claim the deputy was wrong. You don’t know WTF you are talking about. 1) as a CHL holder, the FIRST THING the driver should have done, was alert the officer that he was a CHL holder. He failed to do so. FAILURE: Driver 2) If the weapon can be seen at all, it is no longer concealed and he is in violation of Conceal Carry. FAILURE: Driver Legally licensed or not, once the officer sees the weapon, for Officer AND public Safety, he is going to act as though the driver is a potential threat until the situation is fully resolved. This includes COMMANDS to the driver in an AUTHORITATIVE TONE. Had the driver informed the officer in the very beginning that he was legally armed, and kept his hands in plain view and no sudden moves, I guarantee you this officer would have reacted entirely different. But once the officer saw the concealed weapon without prior notice and the Driver made SEVERAL moves with his hands towards his waist, The Officer was fully justified in his actions. Had you guys watched the video to it’s conclusion and thrown your anti-cop bias out the window, you would have heard the officer explaining the situation to the driver and the officer was fully in the right. Reply Outlaw says: January 20, 2013 at 20:24 This is FL, we don’t have to alert anyone and it’s best that you speak to the cops as little as possible. Ask any defense attorney. So FOAD. Reply CG-23 Sailor says: January 20, 2013 at 21:29 Outlaw, Legal requirement or not to disclose you are carrying, it is the smart thing to do. but judging by your response, “Smart” is not something you are accustomed to now is it? And no. I won’t FOAD just because you are a dipsh!t who thinks Cops=bad people Reply Not Anon in Ct For Long says: January 20, 2013 at 21:07 Screaming like a panicked school girl and threatening to shoot someone in the back is a million miles from an “Authoritative Tone”. I agree that the driver was wrong for getting out of the vehicle, but he made no threatening or rapid movements. Reply elnonio says: January 22, 2013 at 15:14 Look again at how he swung around to pull his wallet. Reply Jay Williams says: January 20, 2013 at 19:59 There have a been some extreme generalizations about cops and about military, so I just wanted to contribute my 2¢. There are cops who are corrupt jerks who wouldn’t hesitate to confiscate your guns if so ordered (I suppose). There are also cops who are kind, generous, honest, and who would defend the Constitution if ordered to take your guns. Likewise, there are those in the military who serve with honor and who would defend the Constitution. Also, on the flip side, there are those in the military who are liberals (the modern kind) who would obey an order to confiscate your weapons. I say this based on the testimony of a dear friend of mine who was a mid-ranking officer and served in the military for quite a few years. I realize generalizations are a necessary part of efficient communication, but sometimes they should be avoided. Reply Matt in FL says: January 20, 2013 at 22:24 There are two very important takeaways from all this, and they’re not “turn on your dome light” or “hands on the wheel.” Those lessons are learn the laws in your particular jurisdiction and don’t believe stuff you read on the internet without confirming it yourself. There is so much wrong information in this comment section it’s not funny. Some of it (“You always have to tell the cop you’re carrying”) is from people who don’t live in Florida and don’t know the laws here. Some is from those who think the cop was totally wrong because they missed that the video was shot in 2009, and Florida’s accidental exposure law didn’t pass ’til 2011. Still more is from those who say they live on Florida, and think that your concealed carry status shows up when your license is run during a routine traffic stop (it doesn’t, in Florida). The point is, opinions aside, people’s understanding of the facts is in many cases, wrong, and that’s what they base their suppositions on. Make sure you have your facts right before you start forming your opinions. Otherwise it’s just noise. Reply CG-23 Sailor says: January 20, 2013 at 22:32 Good response there. One thing. Others have said it concerning you have to tell the officer., I know the laws differ from state to state. I live in Texas where you have to. I know in Florida you don’t have to. My take on it however is that while not required by law, it is still the smart thing to do. Even if you don’t have to, it is stupid not to. Too many A-holes insist on every little detail of being right and give absolutely ZERO cooperation unless they absolutely HAVE to by law that they often create a worse situation, than had they just cooperated. Reply Someone says: January 20, 2013 at 23:45 If only those jews had cooperated, we wouldn’t have had to gas them. Read the Bill of Rights once in a while. Reply CG-23 Sailor says: January 21, 2013 at 01:26 That you would even think to compare what I said to the holocaust shows just how fracked up you are in the head. You are arguing like a Liberal. Sam A Kersh says: January 21, 2013 at 12:39 Sailor, are you a cop? FYI, I also live in Texas. CarlosT says: January 21, 2013 at 05:52 Third takeaway: this is why you want to live in an open carry state. It’s not necessarily that you’ll stroll down the street with your XDm out for all the world to see, but that a shirt that’s too short doesn’t make you a felon. Reply Molon Labe says: January 20, 2013 at 22:27 Tell me why she got kicked and hogtied? http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-chp-pregnant-woman-20130118,0,7103279.story Reply CG-23 Sailor says: January 20, 2013 at 22:53 1) She was not kicked. There was a movement during the arrest where the Officer did force the weight of his leg into the suspect. She was apparently resisting at that point, not everything is caught by the camera, smaller movements and muscle tension can be felt by the officers, but not picked up by the cam. Being on top of her you can tell when she is tensing up or preparing to try something. The Camera cannot see that however. 2) The woman was combative from the get-go. refusing to pull over. threatening the lives of multiple other people on the highway with her VERY RECKLESS driving and cutting others off while refusing to stop for police. Refusing the orders of officers after she did finally stop. The Officers are trained to take a suspect down hard and fast to overcome any potential of resistance. Absolutely nothing wrong to that point. The only possible problem is the “supposed kick” which was likely nothing of the sort, and has a logical explanation (see above). People like her lie all the time to get out of their own mess. I believe the multiple officers over her concerning when she notified them she was pregnant. She did not look visibly pregnant, and she had no reason to tell them beforehand as she did not expect the rough take-down. I guarantee you she only started telling them she was pregnant AFTER the take-down. The dropped charges and the damages paid is no guide or inference of guilt on the part of the officers, that’s between the Prosecutors and the defense attorneys. The Prosecutor may have decided it was not worth the trouble to fight the case. These things do happen. The way you and the article title makes it seem, is that this poor woman was just talking on her phone, simply got pulled over, and suddenly attacked by police kicking her when she was pregnant. The Video shows something else entirely. A woman who refused to pull over, refused to drive safe, endangered other lives, then reused to comply with arresting officers directions, then resisted arrest. Lawyered up and then pretends to be a poor victim of police brutality. Reply Sam A Kersh says: January 21, 2013 at 12:43 From the newspaper article: Guns drawn, the officers approach the driver, and one of the patrolmen sweeps away her legs with a kick and pushes her face-first to the asphalt. Another officer then presses his knee into the woman’s back and pins her to the ground Hmmm, that sounds like a kick to me. Sailor, are you absolutely sure you’re not a cop? Reply roadkill6 says: January 20, 2013 at 23:22 As a former Florida LEO, this is a serious overreaction. I’ve come across CCW permit holders and I’ve never had a problem. Also, Florida passed a law last year that “incidental exposure” of a weapon is not a violation of concealed carry, so the deputy is incorrect. Citrus County needs to review their SOP for dealing with CCW permit holders and this Deputy needs some remedial training. Reply joe says: January 21, 2013 at 06:30 I was in the situation of stopping permit holders a few times-there was no problem like this-they told me they were permit holders and slowly removed their permits for inspection and that was it.I was on the receiving end once while in plainclothes and some one noticed I was carrying and called the police-I was from a different agency-and after staring down two gun barrels while in my vehicle-I was allowed to remove my badge and ID and the responding officers were very courteous. Reply Chad says: January 21, 2013 at 07:08 For all the talk of Florida being the “gun shine state”, florida does have ridiculous laws on inadvertently showing your firearm. They consider it “brandishing”. It is incumbent upon YOU, the permit holder, to know the law. Concealed means CONCEALED. That said, training is the key here folks. Whether you are required to inform law enforcement or not in your state, the SMART thing to do, is hand the officer your drivers license ALONG with your permit to carry, AT THE START, or when the officer makes CONTACT with you. That way, he/she isn’t likely to ESCALATE the situation, just like happened here. Side note: I just read that Florida has changed the law on “brandishing”. So, if thats true, the cop over reacted. But, now it’s going to take a court of law, to determine the outcome. Reply Jay says: January 21, 2013 at 14:19 This is why so many departments are getting rid of dash cams. More often then not they catch their officers committing crimes. Reply SadAmerican4America says: January 21, 2013 at 18:54 Where is the followup on what happened to this guy after being arrested? Reply Matt in FL says: January 21, 2013 at 19:02 http://www.allnineyards.com/2013/01/video-i-dont-care-if-he-has-a-permit-or-not-citrus-county-florida-deputy-andy-cox-jails-lawful-gun-owner/ Reply Dave says: January 21, 2013 at 20:17 I don’t think that guy was very smart. But that cop was a dick. Reply elnonio says: January 22, 2013 at 15:05 Some people need to review standard guidelines on what do when you get pulled over. You stay inside your vehicle. You keep your hands on your wheel; at the most, you roll the window down ahead of time (and I would say only if you have electric windows.) Beyond that, no fidgeting, no rummaging in the console or glove box, adjusting yourself. You wait patiently till the officer comes to your window. When he does, it’s “Good whatever it is , how may I help you today?” Let him tell you what he wants. If what he asks you requires you to reach for your wallet or something, and you happen to be packing, then “Out of courtesy to you, I would like to inform you that I am licensed in (jurisdiction) to carry firearms concealed, and I am currently carrying concealed. In order to get to my wallet, located (here) I may have to reach past my sidearm, and I would not want you to misconstrue my intentions. Do you still wish me to reach for my wallet?” Or something to that effect. Show them some freaking curtesy, and they will respond in kind. Show them that you take their safety seriously, and they will appreciate it. Or act like the imbecile in the video, and you just might be on the receiving end of some overreaction. Parting thought: even if you think all your rights in the world are being violated, now is not the time to argue with the cop. You will get your day in court. The camera is rolling. Put on your best performance. Reply CG-23 Sailor says: January 22, 2013 at 18:57 I would also add you your excellent response that if it is at night, turn your interior dome light on as well so the officer can more easily see into the vehicle and can see what and where you are reaching for when you do. Reply rightontheleftcoast says: February 3, 2013 at 01:45 Excellent advice, thank you. I believe Ayoob makes same suggestions in his book “Concealed Carry”. http://www.amazon.com/The-Digest-Book-Concealed-Carry/dp/0896896110 Heres a video with a tip on making it even easier to remember- just hand the permit over with license and registration, and wait patiently until the officer digests the info: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVReVYMLH7E Reply ArkJerry says: March 31, 2013 at 16:49 Totally unwarranted reaction by cop! Hope he is sued and works as Mall cop, it’s his speed! Reply Write a Comment Cancel reply Your email address will not be published. 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