Prison Inmates Using Recently Published Pistol Permit Map to Intimidate Guards

 

Who didn’t see this one coming? Remember the thing about a newspaper in New York publishing the full names and hope addresses of every pistol permit holder in Westchester and Putnam county? The claim was that they were doing it for the greater good, that there was a pressing need for the public to know about these dangerous people in their community. Turns out some of those ‘dangerous people’ were prison guards, and now that the inmates have their home addresses they’re scaring the crap out of the guards . . .

From Fox News:

Rockland County Sheriff Louis Falco, who spoke at a news conference flanked by other county officials, said the Journal News’ decision to post an online map of names and addresses of handgun owners Dec. 23 has put law enforcement officers in danger.

“They have inmates coming up to them and telling them exactly where they live. That’s not acceptable to me,” Falco said, according to Newsday.

Robert Riley, an officer with the White Plains Police Department and president of its Patrolman’s Benevolent Association, agreed.

We at TTAG had predicted that this would happen, that criminals would be able to find out where LEOs and other law abiding citizens lived and target them. Prison intimidation wasn’t what we had in mind, but its one of those unforeseen consequences of an intentional act.

Now that police officers are being threatened instead of just regular subjects citizens, there’s a plan afoot to get those records locked up so that this can never happen again. But for the thousands of people whose names and addresses are now permanently out in the open there’s no relief in sight.

No word yet on whether the Journal News editorial board is going to help the thousands of people whose lives they have put in harms way move to a safer, unlisted location. Don’t get me wrong, the First Amendment is sacred, but there’s something about yelling “fire” in a crowded room that I seem to remember from my law professor . . .

comments

  1. avatar jay1975 says:

    Time for the lawsuits.

    1. avatar Pascal says:

      Sue for what? What the paper did was legal under NY law. What has to happen is one of these guards or member of their family has to be harmed before you can connect the dots to a jury. Then some enterprising attorney can link the paper to the crime and say they where an agent to the crime.

      Note, that the Alabany has been silent on the whole thing. Until something bad happens nothing will be done. Worst case, they will protect the guards and let the citizens fend for themselves — the democrates will protect the unions and sacrafice everyone else.

      1. avatar Joe Doakes says:

        I wonder if the technological environment has changed so much as to make the law a danger to the public peace; when that law was passed this capacity to distribute information to all enemies – foreign and domestic – did not exist.

        This list will be used to harm people – on both sides – and that is terrible crime.

        1. avatar Gsl45 says:

          A first semester law student could tell you that this is about as clear cut a case there is for false light invasion of privacy.

      2. avatar Barstow Cowboy says:

        This is quite simple really. If someone comes to a police officer’s home and is intent on doing them or their family harm, all the officer has to do to get help is dial 911, take good notes and be an excellent witness…like the rest of the subjects in New York. I’m sure the police will be there to intervene on that family’s behalf as soon as they are able.

      3. avatar Pascal says:

        @Gsl45

        and yet, even with Griswold v. Connecticut and the cases that followed NY has not seen this as an issue nor has there been any lawsuits. CT who has protected gun owners privacy since 1993 is now about to change it so the rabid liberal papers in the state will print out all the gun owners names. May be clear cut, but police powers don’t seem to care or honor the law which in the bigger picture makes laws in general useless.

        I hope somebody steps up and sues, but I do not see it happening in NY because unless you are one of the protected groups of democrates, your rights do not matter.

  2. avatar ST says:

    While I doubt this will make me any more friends around here,I have to wonder why law enforcement believes any of their personal info is a secret to the scumbags of today. Privacy is dead people. A 12 year old with an iPhone could probably track down my address from this TTAG comment alone , to say nothing of a determined crook with friends on the ” outside”. If I worked in LE I’d just as soon pretend that my address is on a billboard next to city hall and make defensive plans accordingly.

    1. avatar Sammy says:

      I’m not a big LE fan, especially when I see the rare instances of abuse of power or arrogance. But for God’s sake. They shouldn’t have to worry about their families while they are on the job and they should have the luxury of anonymity while off duty so they can take the target off for at least a few hours. We grant the cops a lot, peace of mind is a no brainier. A relaxed LEO is a happier and safer LEO.

      1. avatar Billy Wardlaw says:

        My thoughts exactly.

      2. avatar Joe Doakes says:

        I agree. But the reality is the opposite.

        1. avatar Sammy says:

          What is opposite from reality, Joe?. Not flaming you, I just don’t understand the statement.

    2. avatar JPD says:

      You are right. In a college class in 1974 we had an assignment. Find out everything you could about a classmate. We had one week. With no computers, just phone and the library, and neighbors, we found out everything. Family members, where everyone worked, income, addresses, phone numbers, the works.

      Today, extremely easy with the internet. In fact, I ran a check on Ralph. Currently a GQ model, formerly a Chippendale dancer.

      1. avatar Joke & Dagger says:

        Ralph went straight????

        1. avatar IndyEric says:

          hehe

      2. avatar psmcd says:

        You left out he was moonlighting as a dancer while a prison guard. Now that’s false light.

  3. avatar Biofire says:

    Prison guards have a strong union. I hope they sue the newspaper.

  4. avatar Tommy Knocker says:

    I am hoping that the end result of this travesty is ALL records are sealed. What I suspect will happen, because of the power of the LE unions in the state capitol, is that ONLY LE records will be sealed.

    1. avatar Thomas Paine says:

      u got it.

    2. avatar G Orwell says:

      All animals are equal.

      But some are more equal than others.

  5. avatar Lance says:

    Media loved to shame gun owner: There efforts help crime go fig. Another reason to tell media scum to shut up.

  6. avatar ChuckN says:

    I think staff at the Journal News
    are going to need a lot of lawyers
    and even more security guards.

    If even one of the people listed get
    killed, I can see this going from bad
    to worse really fast.

  7. avatar Leon says:

    Freedom of the press should not allow them to be irresponsible.
    With that freedom comes the burden of responsibility.
    Shame on “The Journal News” !

  8. avatar Duality says:

    I truly hope that anyone at the Journal News involved in publishing this info will be held accoutable for any crime committed against the people identified on this map. An accessory to murder, rape, burglary, etc. This disgusts me!

  9. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

    It was public knowledge and the press were wrong for doing it, but the 1st amendment will protect them from criminal. If it could be “proven” someone used this list to intimidate or target a victim I think you could have a civil case, unfortunately that case would have a jury of 12 NY Libbies…

    1. avatar Jim says:

      I think it’s disgusting how they hide behind thebAmmendment they like while trying to destroy the Ammendment they don’t like. All the while they are to ignorant to see that the one they hate protects the one they like. Holy crap I just gave myself a nosebleed…..

  10. avatar Nine says:

    F#ck the Journal News.

    And this is why prisons suck. The Inmates have it too good. To much exposure to the world. Beatings, Starvation, Torture, and Confinement should be what they get, not T.V, hot meals, and drugs.

    1. avatar 16V says:

      You need to talk to someone actually in corrections, or better yet, and ex-con. Or just read some of the DoJ’s own reports. OZ was an understated piece of TV.

      Our prisons (save for some Feds) are all grossly overpopulated. Violence and the threat thereof are a daily part of life. The food is horrid, cells are overcrowded, medical care is a joke, and the drugs are paid for in cash from the outside or “favors” provided on the inside. Those favors range from being some group of guys c-dumpster, to killing some other convict. We have over 3 times the number of mentally ill in prison than we have in mental institutions. And anytime, for any reason, you can end up in solitary, which is guaranteed to screw your head up.

      I know there’s still neocon talk radio idiocy out there that US prisons are somehow somewhere you would want to visit. If you enjoy being beaten, raped, watching your back every second, and dealing with hugely corrupt guards, go get yourself locked up.

      1. avatar Nine says:

        Hmmm. I’ll look into it, perhaps I was a bit too rash.

        But at the same time there are some walking pieces of excrement that deserve life like that, some don’t deserve life at all.

        1. avatar 16V says:

          Fair enough, there are some really bad people out there, and they really do need to be locked up.

          I truly have no problem with that.

      2. avatar mike marriam says:

        And still not a deterrent: go figure.

      3. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

        Well maybe if more Americans were armed and shot to kill the criminal in Defense, maybe it would decrease the number of overcrowded prisons

  11. avatar Carrymagnum says:

    If one of my loved ones was killed because of this I would be out for blood. And I would get it. These people do not deserve to give us the news. Nor do they deserve the lavish lifestyles they enjoy. We need to do something about the media spewing lies and misinformation. I’m all for freedom of press but if any amendment needs to be regulated it’s this one.

    1. avatar Curzen says:

      I’m all for freedom of press but if any amendment needs to be regulated it’s this one.

      and in my opinion you just lost all credibility when opposing gun control

      1. avatar ChuckN says:

        You may consider his credibility gone
        but look at your own argument. You
        seem to have an all or nothing approach.
        While I personally have no issue with
        this, realistically 99.9% could not handle
        the responsibility of that much freedom.

        I should also point out that while the 1st
        Amendment guarantees free speech;
        it does not exempt one from the
        consequences of their words.

        1. avatar 16V says:

          I think you are inadvertently making Cruzen’s point.

          While the 1A doesn’t exempt one from consequences of those protected actions, neither does the 2A.

          Ergo, they both are supposed to be unlimited, until you screw up. Then you have to face the music.

  12. avatar David says:

    Not that I agree w/ what the paper did but anyone who works a prison for more that a few weaks is anything but weak. If anything prison guards can resemble a little too much the population they keep at bay. Most are not wusses by any stretch and can dish out as well as they can take – which is significant. Let the inmates attempt at intimidation; heck – if shot callers of some of the worst gangs around cannot intimidate prison guards (even when bounties are leveled against them) then I doubt this will. But let them try . . . it may lead a few gang related individuals to their slaughter.

    1. avatar Phil says:

      It’s who thous inmates know on the outside- the hidden criminal

    2. avatar In Memphis says:

      This has nothing to do with the size of the guards cahunes. One phone call or meeting between a gangbanger or mafioso and their lawyer could be a hit put out on the guard or their family.

      OR

      This information can be used to bribe and blackmale guards

  13. avatar Steve says:

    Wait. We give prison inmates internet access?

    1. avatar sagebrushracer says:

      a cell phone with data is worth a pretty penny on any prison yard, only thing worth more is prolly tabacco. Even the best person with power, offered money, can be corrupted. Who gaurds the gaurds?

      1. avatar Accur81 says:

        My dog trainer was a former LEO who trains dogs to sniff out contraband cell phones in prison. It helps to stop shot callers from sending hits while inside.

        1. avatar 16V says:

          We both know how effective that has been against Aryan Brotherhood, MS-13, and every other gangster head in the clink. Somewhere near zero. Even after the RICO sweep of ’02, The Brand leadership was still directing the action and the hits.

          Between the creativity of the inmates and the corruption (sanctioned and otherwise) of some COs, there’s not a prison in the US where a con can’t get any drug they want, or get their hands on a cell phone. Ain’t cheap, but all can be gotten.

    2. avatar In Memphis says:

      Some of them probably live better lives than our lower class

    3. avatar CarlosT says:

      Sometimes, but they don’t need that, because they can still send and receive mail. Someone on the outside could do the work of compiling the information based on a list of names provided by mail, and then mail the results back.

      1. avatar Anonymous says:

        Or they could just talk to someone at a routine meeting.

  14. avatar In Memphis says:

    The antis say “if we can save just one life…”

    FOAD!

    If just one life is lost because of this, you will be proven wrong beyond any doubt in your pea sized extremist brains

  15. avatar Kyle says:

    US media continues to show how irresponsible they are. I hope there are repercussions to the Journal News for such an irresponsible act.

  16. avatar Lucas D. says:

    I especially love how The Journal hides behind the “it’s not illegal” defense instead of so much as acknowledging the consequences of their actions, both for the gun owners they’ve outed and for the non-owners whose unarmed status is now known to any aspiring burglars, rapists and/or killers.

    “Not illegal”? Fine, but that doesn’t equal “okay.” Talking on the phone in a movie theater isn’t illegal either, but you’re still a massive shithead for doing it. It’d be nice if people everywhere, but particularly in the news media, would stop looking at these sorts of things as a matter of “can we” and start approaching from the angle of “should we.” But then, it’d be nice if a *lot* of things would happen that never will.

    1. avatar Pascal says:

      That have to keep up the “its not illegal’ meme in case they get sued.

      Sadly, someone will have to get hurt so that the paper, the state and other states like CT that are thinking of doing the same thing get a clue.

      Even the liberal elitist bs cannot hold up to a bloody shirt they caused — ironically, the liberals will blame the killer and not the paper. The opposite of what they have done with Newtown.

    2. avatar APBTFan says:

      “Talking on the phone in a movie theater isn’t illegal either, but you’re still a massive shithead for doing it.”

      Outstanding analogy.

  17. avatar JOE MATAFOME says:

    I don’t see a problem with the guards and cops info being released, because everyone knows that they only need to dial 911 and the lone ranger will arrive just in time to save their family. We all know how help always arrives just in time to save your ass if you just dial 911 and wait like a good little sheep.

    1. avatar Pascal says:

      I could not agree more. And when help does not arrive then maybe things will change.

      1. avatar 16V says:

        It always comes quicker when you are part of the club.

        They’ll roll like it’s an ‘officer needs assistance’ or ‘officer down’ call. Not a whole lot faster than one of us, but it will be as fast as they can possibly get there.

  18. avatar mdc says:

    Fuc%#$ NY,NJ and the rest of the metro sexual nimrods.Im sorry,i forgot Chicago,Philly,St Louis,Calif,all of it.

    1. avatar AlphaGeek says:

      Translation: in a zombie apocalypse, mdc will shoot one of the people he doesn’t like in the knee and make his escape while they’re eaten alive. Because, you know, it’s all about looking out for yourself. It’s not like the horde (aka the gun confiscators) will come for you after they’re done eating that other guy.

      Best regards from one of those “metro sexual nimrods” numbered among the million-plus gun owners in CA.

      1. avatar AaronW says:

        +1 from a “metro sexual nimrod” in NYS, too while we’re at it.

  19. avatar Orangeblue says:

    I find it difficult to believe that corrections officers in NY can’t have their personal info exempted from disclosure. If FL, all sorts of public servants and officials can fill out a form to have their info exempted from the required disclosures.

  20. avatar Curzen says:

    The common sense approach would be to cease registration and delete the collected data, not cry for more legislation to limit access to the data.

  21. avatar Sanchanim says:

    Well we knew this was going to happen. Ok we didn’t think about prison guards but it was bound to happen.
    It is a sad commentary that they feel ok with what they did. I hate to think that LEO’s and guards are now targets along with their families! Home should be a safe haven for everyone, of course there was also the fox report about criminals using the map to make their jobs safer. Way to go Journal News!!
    Queue the lawyers in 3….2…..1…..

    1. avatar AlphaGeek says:

      The funny thing is that my inner Grammar Nazi was shouting “cue! he meant to use the word cue, not queue!” — but then I realized that, amusingly enough, BOTH words work in this context.

      Clearly I need to get some dinner because the topical relevance of my comments is declining rapidly.

  22. avatar Joe says:

    What the paper did was an irresponsible stunt. There was no good purpose behind it, just something the smug “journalists” thought was clever.

  23. avatar Bob says:

    If something bad happens to a guard or cop because of this wouldn’t it be ironic if the newspaper publisher says “Don’t blame the newspaper, blame the person who did the crime.”

    1. avatar Curzen says:

      Ironic yet correct.

    2. avatar Accur81 says:

      Why not blame both? Just don’t blame the damn weapon that the criminal used. Just because an action is technically legal, does not automatically mean that it is moral or wise. “Outing” lawful gun owners was immoral, unwise, and dangerous. It may only be legal because some NY laws are borderline retarded – a “loophole” that needs to be closed. I would imagine that civil liability could still be incurred for such an action, but time will be the tell.

  24. avatar Aharon says:

    “Now that police officers are being threatened instead of just regular subjects citizens, there’s a plan afoot to get those records locked up so that this can never happen again.”

    There are the common people who toil in the private sector and then there are the political class special servants who answer to and are protected by the governing American royalty.

  25. avatar mike marriam says:

    The bigger picture here is that there are always unintended consequences. Extrapolate to nobody has legal guns and all the criminals know it.

  26. avatar TRUTHY says:

    I was a C/O for over 10 years, and I didn’t even carry my wallet inside. Your family’s life depends on inmates not getting your information.

  27. avatar J says:

    You can say what you want as a free human being! So when you walk up to a very proud person and call his mom a fat, stupid, ugly, piece of… etc. You will have to accept the consequences for what you said, in other words, that guy is going to punch your pretty little face until it’s not so pretty and not so little anymore.

  28. avatar Jay Odom says:

    Just to play Devil’s Advocate, wouldn’t a county’s Central Appaisal District (CAD) be more effective than this list? Seeing that most CAD info is online now, isn’t this more of a risk for than a handgun registry? Just I thought. I think the journalist is a foolish instigator, FYI.

    1. avatar Jay Odom says:

      ..and when I say more effective, I am referring to prison guards and LEs.

  29. avatar Ralph says:

    There’s blood in the water now and this is getting delicious. I’m sure that the Journal News also “outed” some of its subscribers, and hopefully some of its advertisers too. The Law of Unintended Consequences is a bitch, ain’t it?

    1. avatar g says:

      …or an ugly burly dude named “STUMPY” who breaks parole and starts visiting all of his guard “friends” thanks to the Journal News.

      What a ridiculous situation…

  30. avatar Silver says:

    If there is any break-in or violence whatsoever at any address listed, the Journal editors should be arrested as accessories to robbery/assault/whatever.

    I love these attempts to “shame” gun owners as if there’s anything to be shameful of. Being hated by sub-human trash like this is a badge of honor. I’d be truly ashamed of myself if they actually liked me.

    1. avatar psmcd says:

      I love the tendency of liberals, the left, or whatever they are, to employ shame as shamelessly as those they say should have no shame. Better we outlaw shame.

  31. avatar Bob Bobson says:

    Good thing these are the guys with guns, whose locations have been published. It will make criminals or gang members think twice before targeting them.

  32. avatar Saul Feldstein says:

    In the US vs. THEM (subject peons vs. enlightened govt flunkies) battle we must remember how much we depend on our govt workers for everything around US.

    They truly are our best and brightest.

  33. avatar JAS says:

    Publishing those maps is as legal as not slamming on the brakes for a jaywalker….

  34. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    Attention LEOs:
    I hope this is a wake up call. Historically you have been exempt from the actions of the rabid gun-control fanatics. Now you see that gun-control fanatics will throw anyone under the bus to accomplish their goals — even a few thousand active and retired police officers as well as prison guards.

    The actions of gun-control fanatics threaten everyone. Please join the ranks of us “mere citizens” who want the means to protect ourselves and our families from violent criminals.

  35. avatar Mark Chamberlain says:

    This is what needs to happen. If you have a subscription to this sorry leftist rag of a newspaper, cancel it. If you advertise on their paper or on their website, stop buying advertising space. Stop visiting this rag’s website. The more you visit their website to see for yourself this despicable interactive map, the more they can justify to advertisers to buy space on the website based on website hits. In other words, don’t give the newspaper justification for engaging in this activity and dry up their revenues until it dries up and blows away.

  36. avatar Johnny Come Lately says:

    Anyone have a corroborating source on this story that isn’t Fox News? It’s not that I don’t trust the media, I just… don’t trust the media.

    1. avatar drus says:

      really! you are asking for independent corroboration on a story from fox news?!?!?! Aren’t they fair and balanced?

      actually, as you stated, “don’t trust the media”

      asking for a lot from a site with a bad case of confirmation bias

  37. avatar The Stig says:

    As I said before, the retired NYPD guys I know are on that list. If I was a betting man, I’d say a good portion of that list is of folks who carried a gun in their line of work. It’s difficult to get a permit otherwise.

  38. avatar Doodaa says:

    To beat liberals you have to fight on their terms…They say this is perfectly legal..Mothers and Fathers have a right to know what dangers, values and beliefs their children will be subjected to in someone else’s home. Where the potential threats may be to so they can plan accordingly……Seems reasonable and responsible and who would deny parent’s this “Right”…. After all, the government has a “Record” and has “Issued” a license…..Well, what if……Someone in a State that have legalized Same Sex Marriage” and have issued state licenses to these couples…..Would this not fall under the freedom of information act as well? Should those who are concerned about dangers, values and beliefs their children will be subjected to in someone else’s home especially if it’s a “Lifestyle” that they disprove of have “Access” to this information as well? even though it’s perfectly legal? Set up a webpage and publish the names and addresses of married same sex couples and watch how fast a law suit is filed…This would be called “Hate Speech”

    1. avatar mike marriam says:

      Exactly what I was thinking but so much better said than I could have.

  39. avatar Zee-Man says:

    A simple thing to do. Each person represented in that map should first cancel any subscription to The Journal News and their affiliates. Write to any advertiser on those sites or print telling them that you have cancelled. Find a media outlet that you feel comfortable with and subscribe there. Tell the advertisers so. Write a letter to the new publisher’s editor and tell them why you have purchased subscription.

    If a decent portion of the gun owners were to follow this plan the Journal News could go bankrupt. The increase in revenue for the other publishers with a stated reason should forestall repetition.

    Not always are private institutions immune from grassroots repercussion.

  40. avatar Mike says:

    +1 for lawsuit time!!! For all costs incidental to moving into a nice new big beautiful home.

  41. avatar Jon says:

    I’m new to this discussion, but I’d like to add something. I’ve been a corrections officer/jailer/guard/screw/whatever for 23 years. I have known corrupt c/o’s – but they are few and are turned out quickly. The last thing we want is some scumbag dragging the rest of us down. I have always tried to maintain as much privacy as possible. I do not talk about me at all. But, we all know people in jail, or an inmate knows someone else who does. They repair our roofs, pour our concrete, work on our cars, suck the crap out of our septic tanks. Always being armed is the only answer. The family knows that if I see someone on the outs and tell them to leave the area that they will leave immediately. But I have an advantage – I know who the creepers in my city are. Most of you don’t. Publishing this info is irresponsible and foolish. Assuming that everyone already knows is only prudent.

  42. avatar Ben L. says:

    I would be willing to donate money to help fund expense for the victims of this stupidity to initiate a class action law suit.

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