NY Times’ “Keeping Guns Away from Children” is Pure Propaganda

 

This Sunday, the New York Times ran an article entitled “Keeping Guns Away From Children.” It argued for civilian disarmament based on firearms-related deaths of “children.” Why did I put children in quotation marks? Glad you asked, since this has pissed me off to an extent that not even my philandering ex has achieved . . .

From the article:

If you are as concerned as I am about the safety of your children and grandchildren, consider that it may be time for a grass-roots movement, comparable to Mothers Against Drunk Driving, to help break the stranglehold the National Rifle Association seems to have on our elected officials.

We at TTAG are absolutely concerned about the safety of children. That’s why we went through the trouble of performing a simulated school shooting to evaluate the effectiveness of armed guards and teachers in schools. And why we will perform a more detailed experiment sometime in the spring. And continue to test until we get hard, repeatable results. You know, something that adds some usable facts to the conversation.

But for the New York Times, the solution can’t be based on facts. The solution has to be based on how the American population feels. They need to feel safe. They need their politicians to do something. And, naturally, since guns are scary, implementing a proven and effective safety measure is impossible to consider.

Do you really want, as the association proposed, an armed guard in every school?

Quick note: The parents of the children who attend Sandy Hook Elementary do. Which is why they recently asked for the police presence at the local schools to be permanent. Its a logical and immediate solution to the issue, one which The New York Times wants to throw out because “guns are scary.”

Instead of focusing on mental health, or the idiocy of gun free school zones, or any number of other issues that would be more effective against stopping something like Sandy Hook from ever happening again, they focus on the guns. They look at guns like some magical talisman that, once eradicated, would mean peace and happiness for all, despite all the facts that point to the exact opposite.

This image right here forms the basis of the argument:

While there are many things we don’t see eye to eye about, there’s one thing that my anti-gun mother does agree with me on: 24 year olds aren’t “children.” Anyone old enough to have a driver’s license no longer bears that label to me. And yet, the New York Times has decided to include people up to the age of 24 in their chart.

The reason? They want to bolster their numbers with gang related violence. Otherwise, their own argument falls apart.

Let’s take a peek into the CDC’s data and figure out exactly how many of these deaths that they reported actually involved small children:

I pulled that data from the CDC’s website last night. Personally, I would have set the cut-off point for “children” at 15. But then again I didn’t have an agenda to push.

The five years between 20 and 24 account for 1/5 of the population under investigation (these “children”), but provide the majority of the body count. Throw in another fifth (15 to 19) and you’ve got damn near 80% of the fatalities among the population being studied.

What the article would like to have you believe is that small children are being murdered and killing themselves because of the presence of firearms in the country, but that’s just not true. The leading cause of death for children is accidental, not murder. And among the murders committed in this country, some people place as many as 77% of those in the category of “gang related violence.”

We’re not talking about little 5 year old Suzie, children like those involved in the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting. We’re talking about adults. And specifically hardened criminals killing other criminals in most cases of homicide.

As for the rest of the murders, there’s nothing indicating that those murders would not have happened if guns were not available. England has almost no civilian firearms ownership, but their murder rate rivals the United States and is on the rise — the US, by the way, has seen a decrease in the murder rate even as firearms ownership has increased.

As for suicides, countless studies (and Bruce Krafft himself) have found that the suicide rate is independent of the availability of firearms. Just because the means to end your life is readily available in firearm form doesn’t make the population of a country more likely to take that way out. Japan is the prime example, with almost no civilian ownership of firearms and a skyrocketing suicide rate that far surpasses the United States.

The only statistic that actually applies to the point of the article is the accidental death column, and as you can see that number is nearly zero involving firearms. Remove those deaths that involve people who are able to vote and the number decreases even father.

I said this exact same thing to my mother (who then became slightly irate): accidental firearms deaths are solely the fault of the parent. I see no reason why they should be treated any differently than a child accidentally drinking bleach or sticking a fork in a power outlet. The means of death does not absolve the parents their responsibility to look after and protect the child, which includes proper firearms storage. And removing firearms from society because of the irresponsible actions of a handful of parents is to ignore the greater good that firearms ownership does on a daily basis.

The purpose of The Times article isn’t to inform and educate, the purpose of this article is to evoke an emotional response. Everything, from the picture at the top of the article to including “young adults” in their figures, was designed to make parents think that there was an epidemic of firearms related deaths among their young children. It was designed to evoke an emotional response that overrides the facts. Its the textbook definition of propaganda.

“Think of the children” is the rallying cry for those who have run out of facts. And even then, their argument still falls flat on its face.

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About Nick Leghorn

Nick Leghorn is a gun nerd living and working in San Antonio, Texas. In his free time, he's a competition shooter (USPSA, 3-gun and NRA High Power), aspiring pilot, and enjoys mixing statistics and science with firearms. Now on sale: Getting Started with Firearms by yours truly!

73 Responses to NY Times’ “Keeping Guns Away from Children” is Pure Propaganda

  1. avatarChris From Iowa says:

    Does the 18 to 24 group also include soldiers killed in Afghanistan and Iraq?

    • avatarChicagoist says:

      Well said. You beat me to it.

    • avatarJim says:

      All things considered? I wouldn’t doubt it.

      • avatarJoke & Dagger says:

        I recommend reading the comments under the linked NY Times article, to see the determined myopia we are up against.

    • The IDC-10 code provides for death by operations of war, the CDC however, does not use it. ALL firearm related homicides, including murder, justified homicide by civilians and justified homicide by off duty police are included in the “homicide” category.

    • avatarDirk Diggler says:

      so under the NYT logic, the US is using child soldiers to fight its wars??? ok, maybe I am cynic, but isn’t that against a number of UN resolutions and condemnations of certain countries who did the same thing? and if so, does that not mean the US gov’t and specifically, the POTUS, is guilty of a war crime? Do we need to ask for a UN Security Council hearing on this??? After all, it is about the children . . . . .

    • No.

      The Department of Defense does not release death certificates of individuals killed overseas to the individual states. The CDC numbers are based on data collected and reported by the individual states.

  2. avatarO.E says:

    Mentally ill people do not commit mass murder. Criminals do however.

    • avatarJonathan says:

      After working in a juvi detention center for sex offenders years back, my opinion is that they are one in the same. Mental problems often lead to criminal behavior, however that doesn’t mean I don’t believe in prison or capital punishment.

      • avatarO.E says:

        Low IQ does not qualify as mental illness. Low IQ is a gift and birth rite in the U.S.A where as life experiences that lead to the cause of mental illness are undesirable problems that require solutions to be found.

        In your case, you found the solution to ‘sex offenders’ problem making was to incarcerate them in a same sex prison system, that is till the shower rooms became a torture chamber.

    • avatarTotenglocke says:

      Mentally ill people believe that the best way to stop someone from hurting you is to be defenseless and submit to their attackers.

    • avatarSammy says:

      Mentally ill people do, however, run the New York Times.

  3. avatarCA_Chris says:

    This current frenzy reminds me of the run up to the Iraq war. More lies, more emotion, more hysteria, and any voice of reason is ignored or shouted down in the media.

  4. avatarPulatso says:

    Even if they can’t get a law passed, it’s about changing what society calls “normal”. Scare a parent into making their homes “gun-free” and a child grows up with guns being alien and unnessecary. They’re working generationally, aiming to make the young voters 20 years from now people who grew up hating the very concept of firearms.

    • avatarO.E says:

      Wonderfully stated.

    • avatarMatt in FL says:

      The “new normal” is what I loudly lamented to everyone I could find who would listen about 8-10 years ago, when the airport TSA bullshit had gotten warmed up and was hitting its full stride. I’m 36, so I remember what it was like “before.” For people who are graduating high school right now, this stuff all started during their formative years, and they have no memory of “before.” My concern was (and is) that many of us who know “before” see what a horrible overreach this $60B industry is, but for those who have now grown up with it, this is normal. That leads me to ask, how much further than what we have now will it have to go before they get upset at the diminishing of their rights and freedoms?

    • avatarKat says:

      There might be some hope for future generations. Recent poll of young people 18 to 20 high percentage plan on purchasing their own gun.
      Makes sense, same kids who have been playing video games, are the same kids inclined to explore the pleasure of shooting.
      I don’t believe violet video games is a cause, in and of itself, on rise in spree killers. It takes a disturbed mind to begin with, to do that.

  5. avatarGov. William J. Le Petomane says:

    And you expected honest reporting from the NYT?

  6. avatarRoss says:

    When these Tyrants are called to the floor for their Treason will they hold their heads high and say it was for the children? When We the People walk them to the wall will they hold their heads high and say it was for the children? Or will they beg and grovel for their lives saying “just give me one more chance to get it right”………. for the children.

  7. avatartdiinva says:

    There are 14 year gangbangers shooting people and being shot. Before they started trying juveniles as adults the 14-17 age group were the ones the gangs used to do their hits. They got released at age 18.

  8. avatarBLAMMO says:

    How many children drown in swimming pools every year?

    Nobody needs a swimming pool.

    • avatarWill says:

      +1 my favorite response to people who say “No one needs assault rifles”

    • avatarMr. Pierogie says:

      Statistics show that more people are killed each year with hammers than rifles. So how come no background checks, waiting periods and 1-hammer-a-month limits at Home Depot yet? That’s just irresponsible….

    • avatarJonathan says:

      In the NYC and Long Island area, you should ask them if they need a luxury car and/or “a driver?” I grew up in Syracuse, NY with family in NYC and went to school with people from the tri-state area. (NY, CT, NJ) These people think they are the center of the universe and they pollute NY state politics.

    • avatarFrankM says:

      Great point! I’m not statistician but I was looking at this recently. It seems that in 2010 726 children (age 0-14) drowned in pools or hot tubs. In that same year 281 children (age 0-14) were killed by firearms (homicides and accidents).

      All the raw data was from the CDC website.

    • avatarIn Memphis says:

      Connecticut already has swimming pool control. Even thoes $200 inflatables that are only about 3 feet deep are required to be fenced in. The logic was if some UNINVITED kid went on your property and drowned its YOUR fault

    • avatarCasey T says:

      It’s funny you say that. I don’t own a swimming pool because of the risk to my daughter but do own firearms. Why? Because pools are a hell of a lot more dangerous and you can’t keep them away from kids.

    • avatar"A" says:

      I wanna know how many of those accidental deaths were to kids who had never seen a real gun before, and were not taught the Boy Scout/Eddie the Eagle/Youth Hunters Safety “Stop, Don’t Touch, Leave the Area, Tell an Adult” response? My guess would be none. Thats is a much a death by ingorance as a death by firearm.

  9. avatarRandy Drescher says:

    I’m sure more than a few mothers are wondering why its really bad to make sure their kids aren’t killed by the use of armed guards. More guns in schools aren’t the answer, oh yeah, Sandy was just awash in guns. Thats immaterial though, bring on the EO’s & goons joe & see what happens. Turn the national guard on law abiding citizens? I can’t wait. Lets rock, Randy

    • avatarIn Memphis says:

      “Turn the national guard on law abiding citizens?”

      James Yeager said in one of his new videos that he has a personal weapons cache’ overseas with rocket launchers and stuff. Might need him to get thoes before he goes to hide lol

  10. avatarAharon says:

    Good post Nick. The NYT’s objectivity, accuracy, and integrity is on par with the former Soviet Union’s Pravda. Ironically, the USG is increasingly ‘changing’ to becoming more like the Soviet government.

    • avatarMichael B. says:

      What’s hilarious is that today’s Pravda is more objective than the NYT. It’s like I’ve entered a bizarro universe where all the lying bureaucrats and propagandists from the Soviet Union jumped ship and took positions in our governments and media.

      • avatarMatt in FL says:

        When two of the best objective sources of TV news are RT (Russian) and Al Jazeera (Arabic), you know the world, she is a’changin’.

        • avatarAharon says:

          I’m not a hard-core libertarian. However, I do appreciate the coverage and criticism of the American and Western establishments and societies that libertarian and Austrian economic sites provide.

          Hey cool, it’s snowing in Portland and a big flock of geese just flew by.

      • avatarAharon says:

        You’re right. We have entered a bizzaro universe. The Russian News site RT has provided some great reporting and coverage. I used to watch them frequently during the financial bubble implosion back in 2007-2008. The American mass media essentially parroted the USG’s propaganda and the misinformation from Wall Street.

  11. avatarThomas Paine says:

    I am very concerned about the safety of my children.

    That’s why for Christmas,
    my 8 year old got a new Gamo Whisper
    my 6 year old got her brother’s hand me down Red Ryder
    and my 4 year old got one of those mini-Red Ryders with like 6″ length of pull.

    I should be able to pull out the bolt action .22 in a year or two, and they will be that much safer.

  12. avatarMike says:

    A better chart is the 10 Leading Causes of Injury Deaths by Age Group Highlighting Unintentional Injury Deaths fro the CDC

    http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leadingcauses.html

    Age 0-14
    1) Suffication 1325
    2) Traffic Accidents 1225
    3) Drowning 726
    4) Firearms 314 (208 Homicide, 80 Suicide, 26 Accidents)
    5) Fire 308

    Since 2/3 of Firearm deaths in Kids are homicide I would think you would want a gun to protect them while watching and training them properly to prevent accidents and suicide.

  13. avatarCtay says:

    Is the child in the article picture scared of the assault style rifles or scared that one day she’ll never be able to own one? Maybe its her wallpaper *shrugs* I’d certainly rather have that on the wall than My Little Pony … just saying.

  14. avatarNick says:

    There is little difference between the “press” as it existed in the Soviet Union and what we now have in the US. Newspaper and TV editors in this country have conferences where the coordinate which topics they will emphasize and what they won’t. There is no “free” press, the modern media exists to propagandize a “progressive” point of view; they are pushing a philosophy, not news.

    We are engaged in a culture war with the old hippies and student radicals of the 60′s and 70′s and so far – they are winning.

  15. avatarGreg Camp says:

    Note that accidental injury is by far the leading cause of death–in fact, it’s larger than all other causes combined. If we want to save the children, we should pass laws requiring them to be put into large plastic bubbles with lots of insulation. Of course, what would come out at age twenty-five wouldn’t be quite human, but that’s what the control freaks want, anyway.

  16. avatarJustAJ says:

    So the question is, how do we get the facts “out there” to the people? We can assume that anything coming from the NRA will be automatically ignored, cause Momma says that the NRA is the devil. I’ve copied/pasted statistical data many many times and sent it to various publications, both via email and in the form of editorials, yet not a bit has been published. Having sites like these are great, but they do little good if we can’t disseminate it to the sheeple who are unable or unwilling to learn on their own and base their voting decisions solely on what the MSM says is the “right” answer.

    • avatarJeff the Griz says:

      What happens is the anti’s will watch this site and many like it waiting for someone to make an insanely stupid post and pass that along as gold… They don’t want truth, they just want to make life more restrictive for the rest of us.

  17. avatarDrew says:

    Now that this arguments gone what’s left? Are they, (the antis), going to go back to, “guns kill people?”
    Yeah right, and spoons make people fat…. sheesh.

    (It’s a tool people, and no, guns were not designed to kill people, they were designed to fire a piece of metal at a high velocity. This piece of metal can be dangerous, but it’s still a tool and you still get to decide how to use it).

  18. avatarWLCE says:

    “…americans aged 1 to 24″

    LOL agenda much???

    this is just sad :( i almost pity anti-gunners.

    • avatarIvy Mike says:

      If you were a parent paying for a child’s college, you might understand their choice of age metrics.

      • avatarjosh says:

        Not being able to pay for an excessively expensive item before one has a chance to make significant income has nothing to do with being a child. The fact is they are including citizens that can buy any weapon that any other civilian can buy.

        • avatarMatt in FL says:

          The fact is they’re using the label of “children” on individuals that most people who aren’t on their side of this argument, and many who are, would disagree with. As Nick said, when most people think of “children,” they’re thinking of individuals that cut off at around 13-15 years old. If you stretch it to the age of majority (18), you’re doing just that, stretching it.

          Despite my mom telling me I’ll always “be her baby,” nobody ever thinks of a 21-24 year old as being included in any group defined as “children.” You’d likely have a hard time finding people who lump them into “youth” or “young people,” as well.

  19. avatarRalph says:

    Breaking News! Wingnuts and Gungrabbers Lie! Film at Eleven!

    If it’s in the Times, it’s bullsh!t — and the Times knows it. It’s not a mistake, it’s not an error and it’s not inadvertence. What we are seeing today is the biggest mindf^ck in the history of the United States. The enemy has it’s pretext — Newtown — which saved them the trouble of having to invent it. They’re not just all in, they’ve doubled down.

    All the phoney scumb@gs are crawling out from under their rocks. We expected the Times to lead the march, but we’re seeing the true colors of a lot of people who we thought were benign. I don’t know about y’all, but as for me, I’m not going to forgive and I’m not going to forget.

  20. avatarDavid says:

    While we are in the mode of dissecting stats – does anyone want to take a shot at (sorry I could not resist) the one Piers Morgan brought out about 35 gun deaths in the UK? That one seems bogus on its face.

    • avatarmatt says:

      According to Wikipedia, they had 157.95. (0.25 per 100,000), most of which were suicides, so the number is probably accurate for homicides.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

    • avatarO.E says:

      Here in the UK authorities found a missing MI5 officer/informant dead curled up within a gymnasium style hold all bag that was zipped shut from the outside.

      The state concluded that the man had died of ‘natural’ causes and his death was in matter of fact part of sexual misadventures involving confined spaces and bondage going horribly wrong. The state did not treat the investigation as one might, the pursuing of evidence based upon suspicious circumstances…

      The Brits couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.

  21. avatarLarry says:

    What? Kids don’t feel safe around guns? Why then does my little girl remind me when we leave the house to make sure I’m wearing my gun? Yes, she’s more comfortable with me armed – because she knows that I would protect her with my life and certainly with my gun. She’s already looking forward to her first pocket knife and she’s already using a re-curve bow. As far as that picture goes, I think my kid would be fine with all of those fine guns on her bedroom wall ;)

  22. Did you seriously expect anything other than propaganda from the New Yuck Slime? If you did, the joke’s on you.

  23. avatarMr aNINNYmouse says:

    They are using the same tactic with guns as they did with GMO foods.
    There, it was big evil corporations – Dow and Monsanto who had a stranglehold on…. (?).
    Except nobody was willing to admit that *the farmer* has a choice to buy seeds that 1) are not sterile, 2) have lower yields (so less profit for farmer), 3) has less resistance to disease, 4) cannot be doused with glyophosate (by the *grower*) – oh, that’s right on that last one: It’s the grower and not Monsanto that douses the crops with Roundup….

    With guns it’s the evil murderous cabal NRA. Because it is not the lobby for 4+ million dues paying Americans (as well as 90million non-dues paying Americans)…..

  24. avatarWilliam says:

    Oh jesus. This “for the children” script is so old and clearly phony, I’m surprised it doesn’t crumble like the Pharoah’s mummy when they touch it. If these pricks cared about children there wouldn’t be Violence Invitational Zones.

  25. avatarLance says:

    Another liberal propaganda piece try not to post them RF we know what crap they pedal and we dont need to give them the ratings online.

  26. avatarKCK says:

    Amongst the AI, we have been debating the effectiveness of the NRA as a group that represents us. They do and they don’t. OK, that being stated, do you notice how the media always keeps them in the Lobbyist camp as if they are pot bellied men chatting up congressmen for thier own interest. The media isolates them from the millions (members and nonmembers) of people that support the NRA and those it does represent.
    Would it not be the same to say that Senators and Congress members have a “strangle hold” on Congress.

    Flash: School Shooting in CA. 2 injured

  27. avatarNeez says:

    Not that i’m surprised. But the age of true objective journalism ended years ago, especially in the new digital age of bloggers, youtube videographers etc….

    Now its the age of who can get the most attention, fans, subscribers, and ratings. This all brings in ad revenue which is their bottomline and number 1 priority. So yea, they cook stats to bolster their agenda, which is to shock and awe people. To make them angry and upset, because hatred is the easiest emotion to coax out of people and rally them to your cause. Look at Hitler, give the people a scapegoat for all of your problems and you can incite them to go to war with the world in hatred.

    There aren’t too many good news reporters anymore. I see so many blatant flaws in their stories it’s sad. You can tell they don’t do any research beyond what’s needed to make their story, they are also on track minded and focused on finding only the information to bolster their stories.

    It also doesn’t help that the general public has fallen into the age of spoon fed information. Thinking for yourself isn’t something you do anymore, you want someone to show you what to think and easily ingest the information with as little effort of your own as possible. It’s that simple.

  28. avatarLeo338 says:

    Where can I purchase that awesome wall paper in the picture? That would look good in my man cave.

  29. avatarThe Concerned Citizen says:

    “They look at guns like some magical talisman that, once eradicated, would mean peace and happiness for all, despite all the facts that point to the exact opposite.”

    Of course they do!!!

    Any sufficient technology that a person is ignorant of will seem like magic. The real problem at the numerious sites around the USA where mass shootings have occured is that they are “Gun Free Zones”. I’m a computer guy. People think I’m a genius, I’m magic and the computer is somehow a demon or a monster that only us computer guys can control.

    Understand that “Gun Free Zones” are not devoid guns. “Gun Free Zone” means “No Guns For Good Guys”. You know the old saying, “If they outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns!!!” …and then people laugh. But, look at the evidence. Its so incredibly apparent of what is happening yet the national media yells, screams and bellows, “ITS THE GUNS! ITS THE GUNS!”

    We have become a nation of mentally challenged individuals.

    Why didn’t this moron gal put up some real statistics? Huh? Because, without her cherry picked stats, YOU WOULD SEE THE TRUTH.

    Here’s one for you: 99% of all mass shootings occur gun free zones.

    No, really, its true. Try and find a mass shooting that isn’t in a gun free zone. Oh, yeah, there are a bunch of ATTEMPTED mass shootings. But, in areas where carry is legal, citizens take them out BEFORE there is much carnage. Its kind of comical how people will ignore obvious when the sensational press steers them away from the facts.

    Here is why my kids, since age 9, have been safe with loaded guns EVERYWHERE in the house. I do mean *EVERYWHERE*. Behind the doors, under the couch, under the cushion of the chair, leaning in the corner. I mean everywhere. I’m not obcessed with guns but its my hobby and a big business for me too. I have about 30 rifles and 20 handguns. Here are the three rules for my house that keeps my kids and I safe:

    A) The gun is always loaded. This applies to every gun.

    B) If you need to do something with a gun beyond using it or moving it, unload it.

    C) The gun you just unloaded is still loaded. Oh, I know you have the cartridge in your hand, however, you can’t see inside the chamber, trust me, its loaded. See rule A. It never expires. You always handle the gun as if its loaded.

    People just don’t understand how often unloaded guns kill people. I know its crazy, but, they do! Its no wonder the insanely ignorant gun rights infringers think the guns are magic!

    The gun rights subversives will use any statistic, any lie and any rumor to subvert your gun rights.

    THE LAW IS THE LAW AND HERE IT IS IN BLACK AND WHITE(…at least for Indiana):

    Article 1, Section 32 of the Indiana Constitution: “The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State.”

    Article 12, Section 1 of the Indiana Constitution: “A militia shall be provided and shall consist of all persons over the age of seventeen (17) years, except those persons who may be exempted by the laws of the United States or of this state. The militia may be divided into active and inactive classes and consist of such military organizations as may be provided by law.”

    Constitution for the united States of America, Amendment 2: “A well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

    I therefore have now realized these truths:

    A) I am a member of the militia.

    B) I am attached to the “inactive” class.

    C) My state says I have the right to bear arms in defense of myself and the state.

    D) The supreme law of the land, The Constitution for the united States of America says I have the right to BEAR *ALL* ARMS.

    Lawyers would have you believe that that makes the limits “legislatable”. That is a lie. When you say ARMS and you say “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED” it means ALL ARMS and it means what it says: “shall not be infringed”.

    Lawyers would have you believe that when you have open ended statements that it give them license to infringe. But, that is just the very opposite. They are lying to the publice and the public just swallows it.

    I declare this:

    From this day forward I shall respect the law with proper reverence and I shall render all contradictory firearms acts, laws, statutes, codes and ordinances as null and void in their application to myself and other Indiana Militia members. Since the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, I am not obligated to obey the color of law statutes, codes and “law” that would infringe upon that right. I, being a member of the Indiana Militia and a citizen, have written this.

    • avatarctay says:

      and as a member of the Indiana Militia, Gov Mitch Daniels has specifically ordered you to work the 12-9pm shift Friday night at the Ft. Wayne Super Walmart checking receipts as customers leave. You’re also ordered to work security for ticket sales Monday night at a Riley High school play in South Bend. Being in the militia, you won’t be compensated for your time or expense as owning firearms is sufficient payment for your services. Thank you . Yeah, I’m being facetious, but the point is there’s always a liberty our gov’t will find a way to remove, limit or make you pay for it somehow in the end.

    • avatarWC says:

      Concerned Citizen- You sound like a very interesting individual. I think your family might get a lot of useful information on this board: http://rugerforum.net/gun-stories/39075-negligent-discharge-3.html

  30. avatarJim B says:

    Why do you say the murder rate in England rivals ours? That is factually incorrect. Our murder rate is four times that of the UK. You can look it up anywhere. Don’t use lies like the antis to make your point.

    • avatarSuburban says:

      U.K. – 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people
      U.S. – 466 violent crimes per 100,000 people

      Ben Swann: Reality Check

      • avatarNee says:

        The murder rate is higher in the U.S. even if you take away all the gun stats. It’s higher with just knives, blunt objects and beatings. But you also have to keep in mind the U.S. reports crimes from the police report which is the worst case scenario for stats, and justifiable homicides are still considered homicides. Whereas U.K. reports crimes after they’ve gone though the courts system, best case scenario for stats. 70-80% of our homicides in the U.S. are in the ghetto’s and are criminal activity related. This stems from problems related to segregation(not that long ago) and other socio-economic roots.

        But yes, violent crime is rampant in the U.K., something even their news media doesn’t air. This gives the public a higher perception of living in a safer world.

      • avatarJarhead1982 says:

        Need to update your notes.

        All VCR per 100k people

        US 2011 383.6
        UK 2011 1,563.2
        Israel 2011 951.6
        Australia 2011 1,259.4
        Canada 2011 1,230.92

        Ref Wikipedia “List of Countries by intentional homicide rate” 2010 data UNODC (UN) we were #103 in the world at 4.8 murders per 100k people.

        • avatarNee says:

          i’m a little skeptical of those numbers. I’m sure in other countries the definition of what is considered a violent crime is less than the u.s.

  31. avatarRoscoe says:

    Great expose’, Nick!

    Though this sites focus is primarily on firearms and 2A Rights attacks, the liberal media does this kind of misrepresenting, mischaracterizing and downright lying about ANY issue it tries to influence for their liberal Democrat politician friends. If the media wasn’t so liberal biased and locked into supporting the Democrat agenda no matter what, there might actually be a national forum to intelligently, rationally and effectively address the many issues that face our nation, including tragedies caused by sociopaths who manage to use deadly weapons of any sort.

    Unfortunately, since the liberal media pretty much owns the airwaves and print, it will continue to be an uphill struggle to enlighten people – one which I personally will never give up – one person at a time.

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