Reminder: TTAG Active Shooting Simulation — Still Looking for Help

Just a reminder for those of you in the NY/CT/MA/RI area that this weekend we’re running a Simunition-powered drill to try and get some data on whether a concealed carry holder (or armed guard) would make a difference in an active shooter situation. It’s scheduled for this Sunday at 9 a.m. in Southington, CT and all you’ll have to bring is your own eye and, um, groin protection. Trust me you don’t want to take a Simunition round in the nads. So if you’re able to be there, please contact me directly: nick.leghorn+SSSim@gmail.com

comments

  1. avatar Will says:

    I wish I were closer. I would looooove to spend a day doing this. NC to CT is a tad too much driving though. Good luck!

  2. avatar Oddux says:

    Reminder: TTAG Active Shooting Simulation — Still Too Soon and Too Close to Newtown

    Fixed that for ya.

  3. avatar OHgunner says:

    If you’re having trouble getting readers that can travel, contact the local shooting clubs.

  4. avatar JB says:

    I’m local and interested, but isn’t any one worried about Bad Press? I think this scenario is a question that should be asked and more importantly tested, and soon, but the anti-gun article practically writes itself. “Playing Monday-morning Quarterback in Newtown’s Backyard.” I am all for this, but maybe time and place? That being said, I don’t know how long it will be until lawful gun-related activities in CT will shake their current scrutiny.

  5. avatar AaronW says:

    I have to work for most of that day, but surely everyone participating is going to go to some local place to warm up and eat?

  6. avatar Joseph says:

    I so wish I could go but it’s to far for me to travel, I just don’t have time for the travel or the money… How Sad. I’ll post this to my FB public to help…

  7. avatar Casey T says:

    While I believe that this is going to end up with a lot of bad publicity, I wish you the best of luck. Please ensure that everything is legal because the anti-gunners are going to come with everything they have at you. If one person has a gun or magazine that isn’t compliant with state regulations, I’m sure that those people will identify that and press for prosecution. It may be a good idea for you to contact some sort of legal representation before hand because I bet you will have some interaction with the authorities, even when everything is completely legal. Again, I hope all goes well and wish you the best of luck.

  8. avatar hmmmmmmmm says:

    I think it’s pretty ballsy of you guys to do this, it’s not often that people take the difficult step of proving themselves utterly wrong in a hunt for pure truth – so kudos.

    Short of having a pill box in each classroom I see no way for any guard to be both close enough to protect a room of children, while at the same time be able to survive the initial surprise of the assault. My prediction for your simulation will be that when the guard has no warning of the assault they will take a round in the face and be completely ineffectual – and that is even given the fact that in your mock up nobody will have sat there day in day out for five years with nothing interesting happening, every person you field will be expecting something to happen, and soon.

    1. avatar Daniel says:

      So what you’re saying is “It MIGHT not work so you shouldn’t try.”
      They thought the invasion of Normandy might not work either.
      Now the world is rid of the Third Reich, isn’t it?

      1. avatar hmmmmmmmm says:

        That isn’t what I said at all Daniel FLAME DELETED

        I happen to think this experiment will be very useful and informative, even given the unrealistic condition of the participants knowing that an event is going to occur beforehand. If the setup is done even close to scientific conditions then the results will be meaningful IMO, and I look forward to seeing the methodology and results.

        Nice Godwin BTW.

      2. avatar hmmmmmmmm says:

        Just to throw this out there before the “test” – does anybody here actually believe that they could safely take out a shooter who stormed into a room and didn’t care about collateral damage if they had their gun holstered?

        I mean honestly, I reckon I could take out 1 defender in a classroom of people I didn’t care about hitting without much trouble, and I’ve never shot a handgun before – a real gun fetishist should be able to do it even quicker than me. Who here actually thinks they can be taken by surprise by the gunman entering the room, correctly assess the situation, draw their weapon from sitting, and accurately shoot a man dead before they are taken out themselves? Anybody who answers yes can just sign up for mall ninja quarterly as far as I’m concerned, because they are full of it.

        1. avatar jwm says:

          Hmmmm, What rule limits the school to one armed responder on site? Could having armed responders on site make things worse than they were in Ct?

          None of yours, or Mikeyb’s, arguments address what we should do NOW to protect the kids in school. All of your ideas would take years to show results, if at all.

          I find it strange that the one idea that might have an immediate impact on the situation is the one you’ve chosen to stand against.

        2. avatar hmmmmmmmm says:

          Actually I was assuming one per classroom, which is utterly ridiculous anyway, but still, that’s what I was assuming – and it STILL won’t help protect the first classroom at least. That is my point, that having an armed guard in every classroom is completely ineffectual. Unless they are covering the door at all times, which is more dangerous, then they will be the first to take a bullet and may as well not have been there in the first place.

          The only way this could possibly work is if every school has only one entrance, and everybody who comes in and out has to prove their identity and submit to search – that is the only way. I find it scary beyond belief that you think the best solution to this problem is to turn schools (and presumably every building in the country) into fortified prisons with armed guards.

          FLAME DELETED

        3. avatar jwm says:

          And what part of your plan will make the schools safer when xmas break is over. I’m really curious to know what piece of legislation that will hit Washington in January will take the 300+ million guns and tons of ammo already out there and render them useless.

          Our first priority is to make the schools safe. We can argue what if any changes are needed in gunlaws after we make the kids safe.

        4. avatar CarlosT says:

          You know, tactically this isn’t that hard a problem to solve. First off, the guard should have his attention on the entry points into the room and be ready to react based on what happens. Second, a full bookshelf of books will stop pretty much anything anyone would think to bring to a school shooting (all the way up to .30-06 armor piercing). So some strategically placed bookshelves would provide the cover our good guy would need to give him the time to respond.

        5. avatar Rybred says:

          you forget to address the more likely outcome that the FIRST classroom may not have ANY armed people in it, yet upon hearing gunshots, an armed person in a nearby classroom can run over and pop the shooter in the back while they’re focusing on killing innocents.

  9. avatar Crunkleross says:

    I have mixed feelings about this simulation but have no doubt that the real power of armed guards is the deterrent effect. No simulation will prove the deterrent effect.

    The spree killers attack defenseless people in gun free zones as a rule. You might say they are cowards who take the easy way out at the first sign of resistance. This indicates to me that even a modest defense force would prevent these kinds of attacks.

    1. avatar hmmmmmmmm says:

      Much like crime in Middle Eastern countries where they take your hands as punishment is nonexistent?

  10. avatar Graybeard says:

    I so wish I could be there!

    However, I’m so looking forward to the results!

  11. avatar LazyDrummer says:

    So I’m reading this post, as I’m sitting at work in…. Southington, CT. I’ve followed the site for a while and didn’t realize any of the mods / writers were from around here.

  12. avatar In Memphis says:

    I have one question and please know Im not trying to debunk this out the gate. Its just curiosity.

    You are trying to scientificaly collect data on whether or not armed response would save lives? If everyone attending this already knows there will be a shooter, does that not botch the results?

    1. avatar jkp says:

      Well, that’s easily fixed. If you’re running multiple drills, don’t have a shooter in every drill.

      1. avatar In Memphis says:

        Running multiple drills I get. If I remember anything from school I think the same results have to occur more than three times to make it fact?

        But that still does not eliminate the factor here that people know they are going in to an active shooter situation. The when may change drill to drill but the if dosnt.

    2. avatar Daniel says:

      I’m a little dubious myself as to what this is supposed to prove. It will, at best, only provide anecdotal evidence that “Yes, armed guards could work.” It will be ignored just as every other piece of evidence which supports the argument, especially since simulation != real life. I would be much more interested in this if you could organize something like this with the involvement of well-known defense/gun groups adding their expertise to make the scenario more credible, and to gather empirical data and stats. Alas, such is the nature of money, but as it is, it stands to prove little.

      1. avatar Phinnigan says:

        We left Knoxville in 2006, but I am familiar with your route. I taghut in the Jesse Harris Building which was the corner of campus prior to the parking garage being built.If you go with the spray, get one with a marking dye included. I have not looked lately, but when we were in Knoxville my wife had the spray on the key ring that contained OC, pepper, and marking dye. OC acts faster than pepper but pepper lasts longer than OC. The marking dye will make the apprehension of the accused much easier. He will be the large Smurf colored man crying and shirtless.

  13. avatar doubleactiondan says:

    I’m in the area and interested in attending but I know that simunition can leave a nasty mark. We’re going to need a bit more than eye and groin protection. Will adequate protective gear be provided for the participants?

  14. avatar Christian says:

    Glad you are putting this simulation on, as very few states train civilians for an active shooter. I’m in Oklahoma, so I will have to attend in spirit. Will you be recording the event to present the results?

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