More than 100 years after God delivered His pistol design to John Moses Browning, the 1911 semi-automatic pistol is still as popular as Moran Atias at a pool party. Not to miss a trick, SIG SAUER is churning out several versions of the venerable handgun. The 1911 Nitron is the gunmaker’s “standard” model (i.e., the one with the fewest bells and whistles). As a SIG fanboy, I had no qualms about exploiting my position at TTAG for some serious trigger time. What I discovered may astound you . . .
From the moment you open the box, you realize that this isn’t just a carbon copy of John Moses Browning’s masterpiece. The SIG SAUER Nitron looks like the love child of a USGI 1911 and a P226 — coincidentally my two favorite handguns.
Externally, the Nitron’s all very 1911-esque. The slide has some standard SIG SAUER modeling on it; the horizontal ledge along the slide’s reminiscent of their P series handguns. Everything else could have been designed in . . . wait for it . . . 1911.
SIG’s made some minor mods: a skeletonized hammer, beavertail grip safety, external extractor and an adjustable trigger. All of which you’d expect to find on a gun that retails for around a grand. Missing from the “Greatest Hits” of high priced 1911s: a bull barrel. SIG opted instead for a precision machined barrel bushing.
There’s a Novak-like cut in the Nitron’s slide that allows for some better options in the rear sight department (e.g., target sights). SIG’s done the right thing, installing some first rate night sights. They’re as bright as an Oxford scholar — for now, that is. Unlike Bill Clinton’s appeal to the Democratic base, tritium decays. With a half life of 12 years you’ll need to replace them sometime before the Obama tax cuts expire.
The insides are where everything goes all SIGgy. The Nitron boasts a firing pin safety similar to the one in the P226, which keeps the thing from going forward unless the trigger is depressed. There’s also a strange protrusion at the back of the slide. I have no idea what it does, other than getting in the way of re-assembling the gun. I wasn’t able to take a good picture of it, but rest assured it’s quite annoying and not standard for a 1911.
The Nitron has the overall look and feel of an extremely well-polished piece of machinery. It has the same soft finish as the P226, which is as pleasurable to handle as Ferrari shift knob (back when they used to have them). The Nitron’s aggressively checkered front and backstraps make the grip grippy, without sacrificing the gun’s ergonomic sensuality.
The acid test, though, is how well the gun shoots. And the answer is mixed, to say the least.
When the gun runs, it’s a beautiful thing. Thanks to the five-inch barrel, the Nitron’s recoil is manageable if not enjoyable. The trigger is absolutely positively excellent, combining a short take-up with a fine, glass-like break. It’s as accurate as you wanna be; I could pop eight rounds very nearly through the same hole at 10 yards all day long.
But (and as a SIG fanboy, this hurts me to say it) the gun doesn’t run. I’ve tested a lot of guns in my tenure here at TTAG. None of them have had as many malfunctions as I’ve had with the SIG SAUER 1911 Nitron.
All of the failures were either failure-to-chamber or failure-to-feed. In 1911s, FTC and FTF issues usually indicate a bad magazine. Nope. I tested the handgun with the two standard-issue factory mags. Both had failures in equal proportions. So I grabbed some of the fullsize Wilson Combat magazines I had lying around and ran them. Same results. \
I tried changing the ammunition, switching from Winchester White Box 45 ACP to Hornady’s 230gr 45 ACP. Same issues. Some other reviews have mentioned that hollow point rounds failed to feed in the Nitron. I didn’t even attempt it given the terrible round nose performance.
Could it be the shooter, then? I may not be the best shot in the world, but after tens of thousands of rounds downrange this year with my own handguns (including a 1911) and not a single malfunction I’d think that I at least was shooting it properly. Nevertheless, I handed the SIG Nitron 1911 to a green shooter as well as a seasoned veteran. They experience the same malfunctions.
The progression is predictable. For about the first magazine after the gun has been stripped, cleaned and lubed, the gun is fine. Usually. There were one or two times where the gun would malf straight away, but for the most part it ran fine. Then, after loading the second magazine, it started to have issues stripping rounds from the magazine.
My theory: the internal components’ tolerances might be a little too tight. Tight tolerances make for accurate guns, but as Mikhail Kalashnikov has taught us, tight tolerances also lead to malfunctions. An accumulation of grime from firing the gun adds friction to the operating parts and decreases the available force to slip the rim of the brass under the heavy external extractor — which would exactly explain the problems I experienced.
When I contacted SIG SAUER to tell them about the “challenges,” they said I was the only person having these problems. So it’s entirely possible that I just got a lemon and everyone else is having a grand old time with their super-reliable 1911 handguns. But this wouldn’t be The Truth About Guns if I didn’t truthfully and accurately report exactly how this gun ran. Or, in this case, didn’t run.
SIG SAUER is sending me another 1911 Nitron to test, a different flavor this time. Watch this space.
Specifications:
Caliber: 45 ACP
Barrel: 5″
Overall: 8.65″
Weight: 40.3 oz
Capacity: 8 +1
Price: $835 (Bud’s)
Ratings (out of five stars):
All ratings are relative to other similar guns, and the final score IS NOT calculated from the constituent scores.
Accuracy: * * * * *
What you’d expect from SIG.
Ergonomics (Handling): * * * *
The grippy panels will be a little too grippy for some, but I’m used to them from my Wilson Combat 1911.
Ergonomics (Firing): * * * * *
Crisp clean break of the trigger, reasonable recoil and easy-to-see sights. The holy grail.
Reliability: *
It ran . . . sometimes. When it felt like it.
Customization: * * * *
The gun takes standard 1911 parts for the most part, like the barrel and the safety, so you can upgrade if you want. The Novak cut on the slide also makes installing aftermarket sights much easier. But there’s a model with a 1913 rail on the bottom of the gun, and honestly I’d much prefer that.
Overall Rating: * *
I can’t go a hair above two stars due to the reliability issue I experienced. Everything else about the gun is great, except the fact that it sometimes refuses to work.
“When I contacted SIG Sauer to tell them about the issues, they said that I was the only person having these problems.”
When someone tells you that it’s safe to assume that, at the very least, ten other people are also experiencing problems and they just don’t give a ****.
By the way, how many more 1911 reviews is TTAG going to do? The reason I ask is because my great grandpa’s reanimated corpse doesn’t think six or seven is enough.
lol, agreed.
There is no such entity as too many 1911 reviews. Carry on!
I like all the reviews of the various iterations of the 1911. I will read as many as they write
I second that… To paraphrase: “ain’t never met a 1911 review I didn’t read”
Yeah, run, don’t walk away from Sig 1911s.
I’ve had two- the 1911C3 and the RCS. While both were commander-size, I could not get either to run worth a crap. I originally bought the RCS and when it had the problems, I returned it to the dealer expecting a bad gun. Then in picked up a new C3 for a good deal and had issues with it as well. Sig had a special deal going so I sent the pistol back to them for a fluff & buff, recut of the feed ramp, etc and it didn’t help the pistol one whit of good. Of course Sig said that it ran fine for them but while I could go 90% of the time and not have too many issues with FMJ, loading any JHP killed the pistol. The only JHP that would load was Golden Sabres, and only because of their closed “mouth”. To top it off, with the square-topped non-milspec slide your selection of holsters that would work are pared down to a very select few. So, no more Sig 1911s for me.
Sig has had my 1911 Fastback Nightmare 5″ for almost 9 weeks after FTF / FTC issues. I swapped ammo, much in the same way you described. This was my first experience with a 1911 and Sig just dropped down several notches in my estimation. I am a Lean / Six Sigma Blackbelt and have a few notions about quality control and the lack of to allow a firearm out of the facility with suck horrendous reliability.
Just tell the guy who breaks into your home to hold on while you fire off 500 rounds to break the gun in. Seriously, if it would fire better after 500 rounds of break in, I’d be happy, even though the time and expense involved would be a hardship. So far, I’ve managed more like 200, and I do think it has been improving somewhat.
“is still as popular as Moran Atias at a pool party”
Now Nick has caught Robert’s writing contagion to include a link in his post to a hot model. You guys are certainly re-writing the standard for gun reviews. If I ever write a post here I’m going to include a link to a hot fetish model or two. Maybe.
I’m 100% certain that Nick didn’t include that, it was “edited in.” He may have gone as far as writing “…still as popular as {insert hot model link here}…” and let RF fill in the rest, or the entire sentence may be an RF construction. Who knows? Who cares? I come to this site for the completely irrelevant babe insertions, don’t you? Doesn’t everyone?
Matt in FL speaks for me on this subject.
Matt,
What do you imagine my tone or attitude is in my comment above?
I imagine it was ironic, i.e. humor with a point. If I’m correct in that assumption, then my comment was meant to agree with and reinforce yours, by way of “educating” you versus taking a direct shot at the true intended target.
Of course, when you have to explain the joke, it doesn’t work.
Was looking at Moran, what were we talking about??
This is what I like about TTAG. Thanks for the honest reporting. I hope for Sig’s sake that it’s an anomaly but it’s still a bit disconcerting.
I bought a P226, twice. One was a regular version, the other was a TacOps. Both didn’t like running dirty, and the TacOps would lock-back after last round was fired only with stock mags. I bought some +2 MecGar mags and they all sat just a tad lower than stock mags for some reason. Besides, their finishes suck, especially on the barrel. I still find a P220 carry very tempting, but I think I’ll pass.
Sad to hear your P226 didn’t work out… I love the gun, personally. If you don’t mind me asking, what was the year/make of yours?
Mine is a West German made from the 80s. Runs like a dream, though at some point, I’ll probably get night sights, springs replaced, and re-finished.
The plain P226 was from 2010 (German frame); the Tacops was from 2011 (I think 100% US made). I kept both guns stock at all times. Somebody on this forum compared Sig to Taurus. I wouldn’t go that far, but the new Sigs are too much hype, not enough substance. Sorry, but I expected more from a $1k gun. I really wanted to like those guns.
JMB got EVERYTHING right in 1911. After being used in umteen wars and gunfights now is not the time to mess with perfection.
External extractor on a 1911?? Wonder if that could be part of the problem! Never have worked on a Sig 1911, but all the 1911′s I have built and repaired were true to original internal extractors which are easy to tune/adjust.
Just curious if the external could be all or part of the problem.
The TRUTH indeed. As a fellow SIG fan (SIG P226 ’til I die!), it hurt to read this review… but I applaud Nick for speaking the truth. I don’t have a nice 1911 in my personal collection yet, but it looks like this offering by SIG won’t be on my wishlist until the problems are fixed or Nick actually gets to test a model that works.
Extra bonus points for the pretty pictures and video link.
Bravo, TTAG… these are the kind of the hard-hitting reviews I like.
Having only FTC or FTF makes me wonder if the recoil spring is not heavy enough. I would be curious if replacing the spring would make the reliability better.
Your dead on. I have the Sig 1911 Tacops changed out that spring never happened again. It has been well over 1000 rds since.
Sig, sadly, the new Taurus.
***Runs and hides***
sorry, but wtf are you talking about?
WTF I’m talking about is Sig is making guns that look good but function very poorly. Just like Taurus. There are a bunch of Sig guns that don’t work well at all. It’s sad to see and say but Sig is getting a horrible reputation just like Taurus.
Blame American SIG factories?
*runs and hides*
well i have 2 American made 226′s and they run just fine.
Polish the feed ramp… That solved my same issue with my sig scorpion 1911
So when do the Hi-Power and M2 reviews appear?
Man, that’s a shame. I have a “Tac Ops” 1911 that runs perfectly. Best of luck in getting the kinks worked out.
Same here. My Sig 1911 TacOps runs without fail.
Polish the feed ramp? Tune the extractor? Change the recoil spring on a brand new gun? There is no reason a 900-1000 dollar gun should not run out of the box.
My $500 Glock has never had a malfunction no matter what I do to it.
I guess I just don’t understand the fascination with these century old paper weights. (Yes I own a Kimber Eclipse Pro II, and its just as big a turd as this Sig seems to be.)
that’s like saying if you buy a car you shouldnt modify it with after-market parts… just because it cost a lot? fact is that once fine-tuned they run better than a block…
Maybe, but I would still expect that car, in stock condition, to perform its basic functions.
It’s the difference between oh hey, this car runs great but let’s make some upgrades to make this car run better! and oh hey, I just bought this car off the lot, brand new, but the brakes aren’t functioning and I think the transmission’s shot! Let’s piss away even more money to get it running the way it was supposed to from the start!
Loooove SIGs, especially the luminous P226. Hate 1911s. Sorry to see that SIG’s P/1911 love child is a dog. But the question is why a great manufacturer like SIG would try to update such an antique, dead-end platform in the first place.
As much as I dislike 1911s, even I have to admit that JMB got it as right as it could be a hundred years ago. F^ck!ing with the design isn’t going to make it better.
Ouch. My SIG fanaticism bone hurts now. Hopefully that was just a lemon, but I do have to say that my wife’s 238 doesn’t like to feed all the time either. It may take a trip back to the factory if it surpasses the break in period with the same issues.
The p238 hates being dirty. Keep it clean with a firm wrist that little fella will tear one big hole in paper it BG. I personally have never had an issue with a sig. But I was shooting a buddy’s 238 and he was getting stove pipes one after another and he handed it to me with a fresh mag and I didn’t have one issue…
Another buddy has a sig 1911 and that one shoots real nice and he hasn’t had any malfunctions yet. But thanks Nick we all appreciate you and the others at ttag. Regardless of how jealous we all are
I had the EXACT same problems when their second generation (attempt) at 1911s came out a few years ago. Could not get through one magazine (of varied manufacture) of ammo (also of varied manufacture) without some malfunction. Went back to Sig twice – still horrible. I shared the experience with a friend who bought one and he swore Sigs were great. He bought one and it had to go back right away too. It was so bad with the first run, they recalled them all. So bad with the second run that they were overwhelmed with the returns. I was hoping the third time was the charm. Since our experience with Sig 1911s, we have changed their motto in our circle to “To hell with reliability.”
I have a friend that owns a 4 inch Sig 1911, it will not run with hollow points at all. My S&W E Series 1911 on the other hand eats anything but launches brass a mile. Might need new recoil spring.
I like SIGs, but I just don’t get 1911s. I just always assumed it was a generational thing. They’re nice, sure. Will I eventually own one (or two)? Most likely. Some of them are absolutely gorgeous. But I’ve never found a 1911 that I liked better than something else for the same job.
I know a little bit about cars, and I guess I equate 1911s with MGs. That’s MG the car, not machine guns. MGs are neat little cars, and if you are of a mind to tinker with them and figure out the individual foibles of your car, they can be truly fantastic. But they’re finicky and quirky and can be (Can be? ROFL. Have you ever had one? ARE.) difficult to deal with on a daily basis. That to me sounds much like what I understand about 1911s. Each one has its own personality, and they seem to be very sensitive to how they’re run (wet, dry, dirty, clean), how they’re maintained, and sometimes, just what day it is. If yours isn’t running right, you can find literally dozens of opinions on what you can do to make it run correctly. Not better; correctly. I prefer things that run, first time, every time, without having to be coddled or scolded or tweaked.
When you decide to buy a 1911 one day just purchase a low-end Springfield and if you have problems with it (you probably won’t) they’ll bend over backwards to make it right.
You can’t be, too rich, too thin, or have too many 1911 pistols.
Uhh, yes you can if one of them is a Sig. Their 1911s make Sigmas look good…
I have a Sigma 9mm that I got for 300 bucks, new. It’s never choked on any of the varied ammo I’ve fed it.
For 850 bucks it should work right out of the box no matter what brand it is. And if you contact the company to tell them thier 850 dollar gun don’t run right they should be bending over backwards to make it right. Not giving you a shrug and “oh well”.
+100.
I had a Sigma .40 that ran like a champ on any ammo but traded it for a Taurus Mill Pro .40!! The Sigma(SW40VE) was just too big to carry concealed for the way I dress, jeans and tshirts most of the time.
I currently own 2 1911′s right now and wouldn’t trade them for anything else unless I find that “one born every minute” that has a Nighthawk 1911 they would trade for mine!
I have had the Taurus Mill Pro in 9mm, .40SW and .45acp!! All three ran like a champ on any ammo, hand loads included, I fed them, but just never got to like the grip/ergonomics of polymer guns.
Neither of my 1911′s are “High Dollar” I guess. An ATI FX Titan .45acp and an Auto Ordinance Commemarative 100 year 1911. Both are shot on a weekly basis and eat everything I feed them without a hiccup.
Hell I sold my Springfield lightweight champion 1911 an got the ATI because it will outshoot the Springfield.
Just my opinion.
Well I know for a fact that Sig is lying saying that this is the only 1911 that they have had problems with. Sig makes great guns, just not 1911s. Their 1911s are jamamatics. It surprised me they cannot manufacture a design that is over 100 years old, but they can’t. Not consistently anyway. There are so many good choices in 1911s that there is absolutely no reason to buy one from a manufacturer that can’t put one together. A WWII era Remington Rand is reliable whereas with a Sig it is a coin toss if you will get a good one or not. That says a lot. A typewriter company can make the gun well but a gun manufacturer can’t!
The bottom line is if you buy a Sig 1911 you take a chance. Sig should have stayed out of the 1911 business.
Except it couldn’t. 1911s are just too damn lucrative.
Ironic, considering SIG already makes a fine .45 ACP – the P220.
How, how, how do you send a firearm to a reviewer without running at least five hundred rounds through it beforehand? That’s some serious beginner shit in their PR department.
I have an RCS Nitron with about 2500 rounds through it. I have failure to feed problems often. It’s not an every magazine occurrence, but definitely enough to be annoying. Usually I can palm smack the back of the slide to get it running, but not always. I am going to send it off to Sig and have them polish the feed ramp and put a full power spring in. We will see if that does the trick. I am running 47OXC mags so I don’t think they are the issue.
Oh and the RCS is a very loose slide to frame fit.
further evidence that reliable, working 1911s cant:
1.) be mass produced
2.) have a external extractor
They were engineered as a hand-crafted gun with a internal extractor. any derivative that veers away from the original design will unsurprisingly fail.
Ok I have at thing for 1911′s. It isn’t like my only gun and don’t want others but it has it’s place. The design has been around for ever, and it is pretty solid, in many ways. I love the MP line of full sized for defensive guns, and certainly SIG has a place for their P226.
As much as folks are saying, polish this or change that.. This seems like it might be a systemic issue of some sort. And for $850.00 it should work and work reliably right out of the box no problem. The fact that it seems this is not an isolated incident, makes me wonder. There are amateur “Home Bobby” gun smiths who are building some really nice looking 1911 clones which run great! A major arms manufacturer really needs to make sure their guns run perfect all the time, every time. I hope they get the kinks worked out.
You’re absolutely right! For $850 it should work right out of the box. None of this polish this or that and it will be fine. With a 1911 there are so many brands available that work out of the box why would someone take a chance with a Sig? Yeah, I am sure some are fine. In fact I know some are fine but then I know the one that was tested is not the only one that wouldn’t run no matter what Sig says.
I went through the same sort crap with Benelli. They claimed that they never had a problem with the gun before despite us sending them back two of them! Two identical Cordoba models that would jam time after time. I think that is just what the customer service department is instructed to say in these companies. “We’ve never had a problem with these guns before.” Yeah sure. The Benellis were fixed but I had to do it myself. In Benelli’s defense they were made to alter the shotgun design by USFW so it could not be loaded with a round on the carrier making it capable of holding 4 rounds instead of three. It is pretty easy to put it back to original specs which makes it a far more reliable gun. Benellis, when they first came out, had a rep as the most reliable auto shotgun around. Not now, well unless you bring it back to original specs.
I don’t know what the exact problem is with Sig 1911s and don’t care really because there are so many other choices out there that are reliable.
Ok – here is my two cents. I have yet to own a 1911, but I have been tempted to buy one, especially with Christmas coming up. I have heard that if you are in the market for one, you should stick with – Springfield Armory, Colt, and maybe Kimber. I believe you should stay away from companies who “just got into” the 1911 market because everyone else has. Oh, and unless you want a 2nd mortgage on your house to buy that Wilson Combat 1911, stick with the companies who have been making 1911′s for years and years . . . and years.
That – or buy a Glock and be done with it.
I do not necessarily know what I am talking about when it comes to 1911′s, since I don’t own one but FWIW:
You seem to be paying more than what you are really getting;
You have to break these 1911′s in – 500 round minimum before they “run right”;
If you want aftermarket parts, you need a gunsmith/machinist to be able to fit them to your 1911
If you are used to a glock or revolver, RF made the point that you must train yourself to use the new system or your brain might think in your DGU situation, that you are holding your Glock instead of what you really have in your hand – 1911.
Sigh, but some are very pretty and I would still, maybe, someday, like to own one.
DO NOT buy a Kimber. Whomever told you that they’re a good company that makes good products is a liar or an idiot. Go with Springfield or Colt.
Ok..well first off I have owned 6 or 7 1911′s and have never had to run 500 rds thru them before they ran right. The 2 I have now ran like they should right out of the box and are still running like a champ. Considering neither one was over $600 I am well pleased, the compact(3.18″bbl) 1911 is my everyday carry gun and I trust it without hesitation.
I do own revolvers, and smaller semi auto’s and still love my 1911′s the most.
As far as replacing parts/upgrading 1911′s all you really need is a good disassembly/reassembly manual, a good gunsmith’s book that deals with 1911′s only(series70,80,etc) and a little common sense mechanical skill and you can build a good 1911. You just have to invest the time to learn the system, which is true with any firearms platform, if you intend to do any parts replacement yourself.
My toolkit for working on 1911′s is fairly small as I can hold all of the tools I need to work on one in two hands.
Of course your chosen platform is what you are most comfortable with. Just as an aside my ccw 1911 has an ambi safety I installed myself in about an hour, and when drawing right or left handed my thumb naturally lays right on the safety as soon as I get a grip on it.
Hopefully one day you will give the platform a try, and they are available in other calibers besides .45acp if recoil could be a problem.
buy a custom or semi-custom and be done with it.
the only 1911s i own are ones that have been assembled by craftsmen, not unskilled labor.
nighthawk, ed brown, wilson, and les baer to name a few. yes theyre expensive. thats what happens when you buy hand crafted firearms.
That is very good advice. Really it is worth a little more money to get a Wilson, Baer, Brown or Nighthawk. If you are patient and shop around you can pick one up used for little more than a new production brand. A friend of mine just bought a used Les Baer Premier II for $1100. It shows a little holster wear but big deal. He has given it to me test shoot. I already know how it will shoot without firing it. Beautifully. All Baers do or they fix them. Well this was one of the accurized versions that came with the test target if you want to call a piece of cardboard a target. Still I know it will shoot and man is made well. Even the magazine. I can’t figure that out. I don’t see a weld or seam on it. They really didn’t make a magazine from a block of stainless did they? It’s nice whatever.
I will have to get a high end 1911 for myself someday but first I would have to sell of some other guns in my safe. I try to keep my inventory to under 50 guns but it is approaching that again. Yeah, I know. It’s ridiculous. Wait! Ridiculous to have so many guns or ridiculous to limit the number? Hmmm.
in my opinion, the 1911 game is like the battle rifle game. if you are on a budget, then you will be disappointed.
If you have a less than 1000 dollar budget, buy a glock…or any other polymer.
Not necessarily true about a $1000 budget. Although the ATI and the Taurus PT 1911′s are under a grand both are very good guns for the money.
The average on the Taurus I have seen around here is $650 to $800 for the two tone.
The ATI Fx Titan Officers Model(3.18″ match grade bull barrel, match grade trigger) is around $500 to $550.
There are good 1911′s out there for less than a grand if you just look around and ask about them from people you know that own 1911′s, ask your local gun shop also what they have or can get in the model you want for less than a grand.
I will say, and this is just from personal experience, stay away from the Kimbers and Rugers at whatever price, the Springfield Range Officer runs just over a grand here with tax but a very well setup pistol.
It really comes down to your personal choice and what you want it for,ie: concealed carry, house gun, car gun,etc.
Look around,check around, ask around and then decide.
….. C…O…L…T….. enough said.
True if you have the $1000+ and can get the Series70 ones. Not a real fan of the Series80 1911′s.
Never a Kimber or Sig, have had very good luck with Taurus, Auto Ordinance,ATI(series70 and my favorite), or Nighthawk if you have the cash for them. I excluded Wilson Combat not because of price but the way they treated a potential customer, and someone who has used a lot of their parts, purchased from them, to build,repair or tune up other 1911′s.
On the other hand when I get the income saved up to buy/build a top shelf Series70 1911 it will be a Nighthawk Custom and nothing else.
My unit uses Serpa as do the Marines here. I’ve never noticed a plbroem with drawing and firing on target and no ND. I realize I’m one person on the internet saying this, but I feel like maybe if you took a few times to train just drawing your weapon from a holster before you go live on it you would be able to notice a plbroem in your draw. For instance Hey i just drew my pistol and noticed that my finger is in the trigger guard before I’m on target. How can I prevent this? After everything that I have done to prevent this in a safe enviroment I still can’t get it right maybe this holster isn’t for me.’ There the end.
“My theory: the internal components’ tolerances might be a little too tight. Tight tolerances make for accurate guns, but as Mikhail Kalashnikov has taught us, tight tolerances also lead to malfunctions. ”
No no no! Tight tolerances mean its closer to specified size (more exact to the print’s dimensions), and more expensive. You mean that the clearances are too tight as a result of a large tolerance range and by luck of the draw you got a MMC issue here. Barrel slightly large OD, small bore on the slide or something like that.
If you haven’t noticed it yet, in the video, you are losing your support hand grip on the pistol when it recoils. Even on those shots where you aren’t relaxing your grip as the gun fires, you are re-gripping the gun between shots (wiggling your fingers of your support hand). All of those things are indicators that you should be gripping the gun a lot harder with your support hand, since you are basically holding it one handed when the slide goes forward. Your grip should be solid enough that a still picture taken immediately before the gun fires, and another one taken the instant the sights come back to where they started after recoil completes look exactly the same.
Before you place all blame on the gun itself, I would have another shooter run it and see if similar problems occur, or experiment with increasing and decreasing support hand grip pressure, making sure you aren’t dragging your thumbs on the slide (can’t see what’s happening on the other side of the pistol in the video.)
If I was ROing you at a match, I would warn you that your trigger finger really should be higher on the pistol, at least on the frame, instead of resting on the trigger guard, when its in the “off the trigger” position. Where you are putting it in that video basically offers little to no protection against a negligent discharge, were you to be surprised, or stumble while moving during a course of fire, because your finger is mostly unsupported and only resting on the trigger guard. At a minimum it should be flat against the frame, with 100% of the finger higher than the trigger guard. That’s the generally accepted standard – some schools advocate an even higher trigger finger position (touching the ejection port on the slide).
I am not sure what you’re saying. Are you saying that the jams are caused by poor form or you just don’t like the way he is holding the pistol? If you think holding the pistol wrong causes the jams he has had, well I absolutely do not agree. He said several people shot the gun and had the same problems. I have heard this holding it wrong excuse a lot. When I had issues with a Benelli shotgun I was told that I probably didn’t have it firmly against my shoulder! This despite the fact I used to shoot over 30K rounds through a shotgun a year. I know what I am doing with a shotgun. Also I have had my bird boy in Argentina shoot a Benelli one handed, shooting all five rounds without a failure. He did it several times and hit most of the doves too. That whole holding it wrong is an excuse for a gun that isn’t working correctly…well most of the time anyway.
Oh, you will see it over and over these so called experts saying that a Benelli will not cycle unless it is firmly against the shoulder. Where do they get their information. Well from reading other idiots. They repeat the same misinformation over and over and think it is true. If you don’t believe me look it up. You will find people that say exactly that. Have they tested it? Of course not or they would know it isn’t true. It’s another gun myth, kind of like the $20 bill in the empty chamber of an SAA. Sounds good so repeat it over and over.
Oh, the 1911 was designed to be mainly a cavalry weapon and thus shot one handed, one hand being needed to control the mount. They work one handed, at least a decent one does.
The jams could be caused by his grip. I’ve seen it happen many, many times with student guns and had it happen myself, most often when shooting one handed. Instead of keeping constant grip pressure on the pistol before, during and after recoil, some people tighten their grip as they press the trigger and then relax it as soon as the gun starts to recoil. The other common failure mode is pressing in, on the slide, with one or both thumbs, causing the slide to drag and not cycle at full velocity.
The failures could also be caused by the mag sitting too low (placement of the hole that locks to the mag release could be off on the magazine body), could be the feed lips on the magazine, many possible mechanical causes. It’s best to be 100% sure it’s not the operator before blaming the gun, and based on what’s in the video, there are grip issues that might be the cause that should be addressed as part of the troubleshooting process.
Did you notice the part where Nick said (and Jim B reiterated) that he handed it off to a couple other shooters, one experienced, one not, and they all had the exact same issues?
I missed that part. The grip issues I observed in the video are still technique problems that need fixing whether they are causing the gun malfunctions or not. If the malfunction is independent of the shooter, the next step I would do is run a Wilson or a Tripp 1911 magazine in it, with Federal 230 gr ball, and see what happens. If the malfunctions keep occurring using those components then I would blame the gun.
Wilson mags 230 grain FMJ and good grip technique. With my RCS it is definitely the gun.
I think I’ll stick with Browning’s better design; my 15 year old CZ has never had a FTF with many thousands of rounds through it. It also remains one of the most accurate guns I own.
I’m sad to hear about your issues with this gun. I have a Sig RCS (CCO; Commander slide on an Officer frame) and have 0 FTF/FTE in almost 2000 rounds and two cleanings.
Incidentally I have an Advantage Arms .22 Conversion (Commander size) and do experience FTF/FTE with it, as you would generally expect of such a conversion. It also makes the gun filthy, but I have had no issues running 200+ .22 through it and then another 100+ .45 with not a single .45 failure.
Anecdotal evidence at best, but then again so is this review.
I still don’t trust external extractors on 1911′s.
if you buy any modern 1911 you get every bit of misery you deserve and then some…
gave up on 1911′s years ago when only 2 out of over a dozen pistols were functional from NIB…
even a highpoint or an RG has a better chance at reliability than a modern 1911…
This review does not match up with previous reviews I have read on this gun. I’m thinking you just got a lemon.
Watched the video, you have a pretty awful shooting form – back to school for you
.
Did you disassemble, clean and lube the pistol before you first shot it? Did you do a function test? One of your failures on the video resulted from slingshot charging the gun. Have you tried the slide release? Your slingshots are too fast and not clean.
Both malfunctions I saw can be easily be caused by crud in the chamber. I had your same problems happen to me with a brand new .357 Sig barrel I bought for my Glock. It finally jammed so bad I had to take it to the armorer at the premises. He said the chamber was full of crud. After cleaning the chamber and barrel it has run 100% since – now over 600 rounds. That was the only time I have not cleaned a new barrel before shooting it. Also, new 1911s have to be run greasy wet.
Did you even look through the barrel before shooting the gun the first time?
J.
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That’s too bad. My Sig XO 1911 hasn’t failed to feed, fire, or eject anything in 500 rounds so far. Love it.
I own one… Nitron with the rail.
I’ve fed about 1000 rounds through it so far, from bottom dollar plinking ammo (bottom dollar as you can go for .45) and not so bottom dollar quality defensive ammo and the gun ran like a sweing machine; non-stop, smooth, and accurate.
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I have the XO and the 1911F from SIG and neither weapon has had a problem. I did clean it as soon as I got it(it’s not a polymer pistol) and it does need more lubrication than most. The F is the most accurate handgun I own with XO being 2nd. The tolerances are tight on the SIGs (1911′s and the P series) but i’ve never had a problem with any of them.
Thanks for the write-up, Nick. Over the past weekend, I picked up the exact gun you tested (luckily, I guess, before reading your review). I just got home from shooting nearly a full, 50-round box of Federal FMJ, before shooting a handful of Hornady TAPs, before finishing off the Federals. I didn’t have a single malfunction. It shot accurately and smoothly. I’m very pleased with it and plan to carry it after I take it with me to a few more “break in” trips to the range.
That’s not to say things won’t go south later, but I’m thinking you may have just received a unit with issues.
Everyone turns out a lemon every now and again but it is not a reason to run away from ALL Sig 1911′s. I would agree the first GSR line had extractor and magazine issues but Sig has come a long way in fixing these issues. I did a Sig TTT review and had the exact opposite experience.
http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=2294
What I have found though with any 1911 for me is a high grip hold and some wilson grease on the rails and they all run flawlessly. Though I must say you make me cry when I see you just racking that thing to death on an empty chamber I wonder how many times you performed that routine which is possible to cause problems and will absolutely ruin a trigger job.
Springfield Armory’s 1911 manual says this on the issue:
Notice: The slide of a 1911-A1 pistol should never
be released on an empty chamber; especially one
which has had an action job. Releasing the slide on
an empty chamber causes damage to the breech
face on the barrel and undue stress on all action
parts, including the hammer and the sear. This will
ruin the action job performed on your pistol.
I had the same failures to feed out of a Sig Scorpion full-size. The slide stop was bad on it, which appears to have mitigated the problem with the slide locking back after the last round but I would go with the tolerances as a main issue.
Did you install a buffer in the Sig? One that sits right at the barrel lug at the rear of the recoil spring? It’s a small, usually plastic device that often helps with wear and tear on a gun long term but I found that my Sig did NOT like. It ran a lot better without it but with all the finickyness the Scorpion gave me she will find a better home somewhere else.
I purely loathe .45 ACP! If it came in .38 Super I’d buy one right now!
Charlie
I bought the Sig Sauer 1911 Fastback (commander size) Nitron in August. It is awesome! 600 various rounds to date (ball and hollow point) including dirty Precision reloads, without one FTC, FTL, or jam. It is well made, crisp trigger, easy to field strip, and flat out beautiful to look at. I very much appreciate the review and comments from my fellow shooters, but I wouldn’t hesitate recommending this gun to anyone.
Sig needs to end the use of flat-cut recoil springs in their 1911s and P238s.These were my last two Sigs and neither has had one round through them with a standard Sig recoil spring.My Tac-Ops has run flawlessly using a Wolff 18.5# spring and the P238 is perfect with a 12# spring.Just my experience.
Shot my brand new Sig Nightmare carry commander model last Thursday for the first time …. ran 50 rds of Walmart WWB and 100rds of my own target reloads down the pipe flawlessly. A variety of magazines were used i.e. Wilson 47d, ETM, Baer, Metalform, vintage USGI, Sig factory mag and Colt factory 7 and 8rd magazines….not one single issue. This Sig commander shot more accurate than my full size BaerPII and Kimber CII.
OK, so I can cross SIG M1911′s off my list.
That leaves just about 20 other makers to evaluate.
No wonder everyone’s buying GLOCKS!
i own sig 1911 nitron with rail.have run over 1000 rounds through weapon and NEVER had failure with any ammo i feed her. odd review.
Novice user – spent a fortune on Sig 1911 Carry Nitron and P238, mostly because I like the looks and never remotely considered the possibility that guns that expensive would not be somewhat reliable. Have been to the range only once so far and had a few jams with the P238, but the 1911 is basically useless. Looks like they’ll make nice decorations, but I wanted something for self defense. In spite of the fact that I paid a lot of money for these guns, have very little extra money and I can’t remember ever being this disappointed and depressed.
Sorry to hear about your issues. I have a P238 that’s never failed to go bang with whatever ammo I threw at it. Well, except for some cheap russian stuff with hard primers, but I’ve used many other lots of that same brand without a hitch, so I’m calling that a fluke.
I believe if you sent that gun back they sent it to me. I have the exact same gun doing the exact same thing. I have guns i have tried to make malfunction and cant 4 of those are sigs including two p 220s, c3, and gsr. I think there is zero chance you are shooting it wrong.I have had nothing but good luck from sigs of all kinds. And just because i dont like a glock at all dont mean i am going to say they are horible guns like some of these sig haters. But i have had several glocks over the years and have had at least 12 to 15 ftf total But have shot more rounds than most even through glocks so 12 to 15 is not bad. Until this sig 1911 fastback i have had less than 10 from sigs which i shoot 3 times as much as any other gun. Never even one in either of my 220s and ith 4000 rounds and counting never even 1 in my gsr. But this fastback is kicking my but. I do a lot of work on 1911 pistols myself and thought this is going to be a nice little chalange. But i am so sick of this thing now i thik i am going to turn it into a 460 rowland.I think the man is right when he said fit of barrel to slide may have something to do with it also the guy who mentioned the extractor may be onto something.. But it is very hard to tune. this has made me really start to reconsider my 1911 position. I may now start buing springfield, colt or even s and w and dontlaugh at s and w i think i ve had less problems with s and w than any other gun. As far as the fastback goes i will lput the rowland kit in it an if that helps or solves the problem iwill keep it. If not i will sell it cheap or use it for parts and i payed a lot more than 800 for mine
I bought a Tac Ops a couple months ago and never shot it before I put on a 460 rowland conversion with a ported barrel . It shot way low so I added an adjustable rear sight. Wow it eats everything I feed it an spits them all in the 9-10 ring at 20 yards. I reload all my own and use a col of 1.267″ . I have only put 200 rounds thru it so far but never once has it failed.
Jim, that sounds great for you since you seem knowledgable about guns. But frankly, I don’t think I should have to have gunsmith training or retrofit anything to make my $1,100 (or so) pistol shoot a few bullets. A 460 Rowland and a ported barrel? WTF???
I have been having failure to feed problems with my Sig 1911 tac ops. I was told to expect a few problems during break in but after 300-400 rounds I was still getting about a 10 percent failure rate. Sent it back to Sig. They polished the feed ramp and fired 40 rounds through it without failure. When I took it to the range, the failure rate was now around 50 percent. At this point I am thoroughly discussed with the 1911 tac ops, and Sig service as well.
Just picked up my new 1911 Nitron 3 hours ago, and immediately went to the range to see what it would do. The good: It shot amazing groups at 7 yards and felt great in my hand. The bad: 3 FTC’s and multiple Failure to Locks in the 70 or so rounds I shot. The FTC’s were bad enough, FTL’s were the worst as the gun wouldn’t lock more than it would. THIS WAS WITH STOCK MAGS AND WILSON COMBAT MAGS! The gun is going back to Sig, as is my P220 that shoots low left for everyone who knows how to shoot and tries it. Sig, you’re breaking my heart!
Is there a timeframe for when a gun can be returned to Sig?
I’m afraid that I won’t be able
Mine is over a year old.
to get a gun in Maryland to replace it. I bought and paid
for another handgun 35 days ago and it’s still sitting at the
gun shop waiting state police approval. I’m told the wait
is now just about 40 days. I think they’re deliberately
delaying to discourage purchase and hoping to enact more
prohibitions in the meantime.
Sig Sauer offers a “Limited Lifetime Warranty.” So you should be good to send it back and have service done to it, providing it’s a defect. Not saying you mishandle or misuse your weapon(s), just saying what it says in the Sig owner’s manual.
Did some research and hoping that a thorough cleaning and running the gun wet will help with the above problems. Seems to have helped others with similar issues. We’ll see…
My father just picked-up a Sig 1911 full-size stainless. Lots of FTC problems with Speer Lawman round-nose FMJ. After an hour of many FTCs (1-4 pretty much every mag) we grabbed a box of Speer GoldDot; the Sig 1911 ate them all no problem. Sure felt like a tolerance issue to us…we’re hoping it will get over it after some more range work.
I just picked up this handgun today (Sig Sauer 1911 Nitron) and had 0 issues whatsoever with it. Shooting Fiocchi 230 gr, put 50 rounds through it, did some “rapid fire,” and loaded it to capacity (8+1). Used both mags that came with the gun. Zero issues. I’m sorry to hear that several others have been having problems with it…and it does sound like possibly a tolerance issue to me. I’m going to put a lot more rounds through it this weekend so maybe the results will be different? Any update on this gun on your end? Did Sig ever send out a different handgun to test/review?
Hi All,
Just wanted to add my 2 cents. I have recently purchased a Sig Sauer 1911 TacOps handgun (with rail). I took the gun to the range and shot Winchester 230 grain ball with above average group results. I need to mention that the gun came with four (yes, four) stainless steel magazines. Apart from one single failure to lock the slide in retracted position after the last round was fired, I experienced absolutely no problems. I attribute this to mag follower rather than gun itself. After 230 ball, I shot some 200 grain jacketed, lighter loads, again made by Winchester. The gun performed well, no issues, stoppages or hickups, but the groups at the target kind of “opened up”, and they opened up a lot, say from 1.5″ that I shot with 230 grain to over 3″. The next time I went out, I brought some Fiocchi 200 grain JHPs. I loaded the first mag, raked the slide and boom. The gun shot all right, the next round seemed to chamber, but the slide did not close all the way. I cleared the stoppage and attempted at shooting the same round again. I got the same result! Anyway, the short of the long story is – I was unable to shoot ANY of the 200 gr JHPs out of ANY of the 4 magazines in my Sig Sauer TacOps 1911 pistol that day. Very disappointing. This gun should be able to digest anything you put into it in 45 ACP, regardless of weight or shape, as long as it’s a factory load, right?
Kizoni
Does anybody out their know if the device sold at Brownells to disconnect the 1980′s series trigger will work on a Sig?
My son has a new Sig 1911 and a 226. I have a SP2022 and a P250. I have to say we’ve had no problems with any of them and I believe they were all manufactured in Exeter. We shot the 1911 this past weekend for the first time. We ran 500 rounds of Sellier through it and not one FTF or FTE. I’m really surprised at all the posters who’ve had problems. I hope that doesn’t bode problems for us. I really liked the gun.