DGU of the Day: San Antonio Black Friday Brawl Edition

 

“Black Friday got off to a rowdy start at a San Antonio mall,” nbcdfw.com reports, “where police say one shopper pulled a gun on another who punched him in the face while they were waiting in line at a Sears store.” Gun control advocates will no doubt stop thinking there. Concealed carry firearms = Wild West. Done. But let’s go to a local source [mysanantonion.com] and zoom in on the details of the incident. “A man was pushing to get to the front of the line and started arguing with other people, trying to cut in front of them, said San Antonio Police Sgt. Rob Carey. Then he started calling people names, the sergeant said, and punched another customer in the face . . .

Roger Rivera, who was shopping in the Sears, said the man who was punched then pulled a gun and pointed it at the rabble-rouser, although Carey said the man actually pointed the gun at the ground. Everyone scattered, “tumbling over things, dropping boxes,” Rivera said. The man who was trying to cut in line ran and hid behind a refrigerator before he fled the store.

“It kind of went a little crazy in there,” Carey said.

Rivera told his kids to get down. While everyone was panicking, the man with the gun stood there, he said, and looked around, lowering the weapon.

For about 10 minutes, the shopping stopped, said Rivera, and his wife Teresa, who was also in Sears but in another part of the store. She raised concerns about whether Sears had enough security, noting that she only saw men at the store wearing “Security” vests.

So a concealed carry weapons permit holder prevented a one-man riot and grievous bodily harm. Remember: a single punch can be fatal. And a single glimpse of a self-defense firearm can save lives. And when seconds count, the Mall cops are only, wait, where were they again?

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About Robert Farago

Robert Farago is the Publisher of The Truth About Guns (TTAG). He started the site to explore the ethics, morality, business, politics, culture, technology, practice, strategy, dangers and fun of guns.

33 Responses to DGU of the Day: San Antonio Black Friday Brawl Edition

  1. avatarJoe Grine says:

    Sounds like a good way to clear the asiles and move to the front of the line!

  2. avatarBryan P says:

    As someone who works “Security” for Sears, we are not authorized to do much of anything. Sears strictly prohibits possession of any form of weapon by an employee.

    • avatarAccur81 says:

      Mall security guards aren’t badass?!

      • avatarBryan P says:

        Our “Mall Security” company is able to do even less than we are. They are the stereotypical “observe and report”.

      • avatarIn Memphis says:

        Well, there is that one that saved the mayors nephews virginity.

        Then didnt he save an Abercrombie and Fitch from Checnian terrorists? I think it was something like he evacuated the mall under the guise of a gas leak so no one could see him and his team operate.

        I wonder if he ever decided to duct tape thoes trauma plates to his back. We all know its important to cover our partners back with a vest that can stop a .308. Damn mall snipers.

        Gecko45 FTW!

      • avatarJake in AK says:

        I work for a private security company- and while what I end up doing is much more hands on, most of our officers are observe and report.
        Security guards are *NOT* there to act like cops. No one wants to admit it, but security is only there to get information to police faster and lower insurance rates for stores. Citizens should not count on third party private security to save them.

        Keeping in mind that most, if not all, who work for private security want to help keep people safe- company rules and policies, laws, and contractual obligations and limits prevent most private security from doing anything more then saying “please stop or I will have to ask you to stop again.”

  3. avatarTommy Knocker says:

    Sorry but the CCW broke the first rule of living in a crowded world. AVOID. He should not have been in some stupid shopperholic sardine can tension creating pressure cooker situation. Same reason I dont go for strolls in the local ghetto at 3am on hot August nights.

    • avatarAccur81 says:

      I’m not avoiding every potential violent situation that could ever possibly occur – I’m going to live my life. Just because I CC does not mean that I can’t chase a door buster or two. As long as the CCW carrier is not intoxicated, I have no problem with him carrying.

      People go apeshit over the holidays – violence, suicide, stress, depression, etc. are all unusually high. I’ll carry on duty and off.

    • avatarKendahl says:

      Tommy, stop blaming the victim. We realized long ago that women don’t “ask” to be raped by wearing attractive clothing or going out at night by themselves. This situation is no different.

      The permit holder had every right to be where he was just like the other shoppers around him. The blame falls entirely on the assailant who refused to behave in a civil manner, verbally abused other shoppers and committed an assault on one of them. The permit holder used the threat of force to terminate the attack, not to mention the rest of the guy’s bad behavior. Would you rather he went kung fu on the assailant, leaving him on the floor with multiple injuries? That would have been justifiable self defense.

      As for going “for strolls in the local ghetto at 3am on hot August nights”, does that include a poor, but decent person standing on a street corner waiting for a bus to take him to or from his low paying night job?

      • avatarTommy Knocker says:

        Sorry but I guess we have different life experiences. Grew up in that ghetto. Had to deal with low life criminals most of my childhood. I developed what Cooper called rule one , situational awarness. I made it to a ripe old age. Hope those with the “all piss and vinegar ” atttitude do too.

        • avatarJake says:

          If you ever walked out of your own house then you broke your own rule, by definition, if you lived in a dangerous place. You can’t be expected to hide from the world so you don’t have to react appropriately to the often inappropriate actions of the animals it contains.

    • avatarBen says:

      Shut up Tommy.

  4. avatarspeedracer5050 says:

    Well the MSM will be calling for a ban on holidays and holiday shopping next!! Thank God for the Internet!!

  5. avatarAharon says:

    I looked into the MSNBC site and so far have not found a reference to this incident. I did see this story:
    ‘Cops: Mass. bargain-hunter took home TV, left 2-year-old boy behind’

    Ya think America’s consumerism-obsessed values are making for an unbalanced and sick society?

  6. avatarThomasR says:

    But, but I was taught that introducing a gun into an intense situation only makes it worse, I don’t understand, was I lied to? (sarc)

  7. avatarNWGlocker says:

    So did they arrest the line jumper for assault?

  8. avatarDerryM says:

    I’d have to argue that this CCW Permit holder crossed a line here he should not have crossed. I’d be really pissed if some a-hole trying to cut the line punched me in the face, too. But with so many other people around in close proximity, pulling your gun and causing a panic, as this guy apparently did, just does not make good, responsible common sense. He put a whole bunch of people into danger by causing a flight panic, and played right into the gun grabbers’ “all CCW holders are just lunatics with guns” claim. (There, MikeB302000, saved you the trouble of posting that.) There are too many “What ifs…?” to go through here, but I will say, if you’re out Black Friday Shopping, you kind of have to accept that ridiculous crap like this is highly probable, and if you are carrying, prepare yourself to expect to get dragged into an incident like this and to respond more appropriately than this guy did. There’s no fault in expecting the worse and having nothing as bad as you expected happen, but there is a fault in losing your composure and putting a lot of other people in danger because your mental preparation was lacking.

  9. avatarBob says:

    OK. Let’s do some scenario planning…

    You’re the CCW holder, and you have accidentally gotten yourself and your family into this bad situation. The A-hole has just punched you in the face. What should you do? Comments, please…

    I would have grabbed the handle of my firearm through my shirt, so he could see that I’m carrying. I would say to the A-hole just loud enough for him to hear clearly, “I’ve got a gun right here. Now do you want to continue messing with me, or are you going to stop acting like an a__hole?” He would have adjusted his behavior, no one else would have been assaulted, and the innocent bystanders would not have been panicked by an angry man about to start shooting.

    • avatartdiinva says:

      This situation called for pepper spray. A blast in the face would have settled the issue without having to resort to a ballistic solution. I normally carry pepper spray to deal with threats to my dogs from wild animals and out of control dangerous dog breeds. Over time I realized it is a better self defense weapon than a gun when you have to deal with out of control two legged beasts in situations like black Friday mobs.

    • avatartjlarson2k says:

      First off, the CCer should’ve created some space between him and his attacker to put a delay in any more follow-up punches. The attacker wasn’t a guy with a knife or gun (yet), just a flailing fist and a temper — like a brat. So treat them like a brat.

      Vocally and loudly, announce you’re being attacked, so people around you know you’re in the defensive. If people just turn and see a gun, they’ll freak. But if they get some context (“Hey, I’m being assaulted by this jerk! He just punched me!”), it puts you in a much better legal position if you still feel the need to present your gun (ie. the attacker escalates with a deadly weapon).

      But a fist isn’t inherently lethal unless the person: is a trained boxer or brawler, martial artist, or outweighs you by quite a bit. Or if you have some sort of medical condition that doesn’t take punches to the face well.

      The above reasons are the only way I could justify pulling a gun after one punch. But knowing that you’re in a huge crowded area and that presenting your firearm will likely cause panic, your loud verbal warning announcing the incident and the fact you are the one being attacked is very important to help offset panic.

      Also try to get in a defensive posture with a hand out in the STOP position so if anyone turns and looks at the commotion, they see a hunched person (probably with a red mark on their face or a bloody nose) with their hand held up defensively and their other somewhere on their belt. Clearly, the person being attacked as opposed to the red-faced guy with his fist cocked back for round 2.

    • avatarDerryM says:

      Thanks! Looks like the Police did not (yet) charge anyone with anything, and returned the CCW’s “property” (aka, I presume, his gun) to him. So, it also looks like the reporting MSM resources may have made it out to be more than it was (What a surprise!).

  10. avatarArmed Veteran Voter says:

    IF it were I in a similar situation, and I whipped out my super giant economy sized can of Wasp & Hornet Spray, because I don’t have my concealed permit, yet, would that have been a proper response?

    I’m an old fart, retired military marksman, expert on all NATO arms, up to the
    Nuclear Launch Command and Control encrypted systems. Being most highly trained in Nuclear Launch Procedures, as an Avionics Maintenance Technician on huge delivery and launch control aircraft in SAC, I don’t believe in concealed carry.

    I let you know that I am the most powerful entity in this quadrant of the universe.
    If you mess with me, you screw the pooch for all the folks you know, or, don’t know, but who live within 50 miles of this spot that you temporarily occupy.

    So, I carry a Super Giant Economy Size can of Wasp & Hornet Spray, to blind you,
    while I run get my real weapon. So, the rest of you might have noticed that there have been no incidents of nuclear explosions. Yeah, by the time I get to my launch control pad, I am of the opinion that the costs are NOT justified, in this instance…

    Then, I do have my M1 with spare ammo… already in the clips and ready…

    • avatarMotoJB says:

      Someone seems to be sniffing/huffing the bug spray… ;)

    • avatarG23 to 9 says:

      You know hitting someone in the eyes with wasp spray could get you a charge of causing grievous bodily injury right? Its been brought up in court before numerous times that wasp spray is designed to kill bugs, which has the effect of also causing blindness to the assailant. Stick with pepper spray, that wont get you charged but’ll do the same thing, using bug spray WILL get you charged, doesnt matter if youre an old fart or an 18yo.

    • avatarA says:

      You know hitting someone in the eyes with wasp spray could get you a charge of causing grievous bodily injury right? Its been brought up in court before numerous times that wasp spray is designed to kill bugs, which has the effect of also causing blindness to the assailant. Stick with pepper spray, that wont get you charged but’ll do the same thing, using bug spray WILL get you charged, doesnt matter if youre an old fart or an 18yo.

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