Travis Haley on the 300 AAC Blackout

Travis Haley is probably best known these days for his role in the Magpul Dynamics series of training videos on carbines and handguns, but the man is a master trainer in his own right who has had some time “downrange.” So when Travis Haley speaks, I listen. And today he’s singing the praises of the 300 AAC Blackout cartridge, claiming it’s even combat effective out to a kilometer, which sounds as beautiful to my ears as the overture to Beethoven’s Fidelio. Check it out the vid for his thoughts on 300 BLK.

comments

  1. avatar bobo says:

    Some of what he’s saying is clearly fact but you also have to wonder about his bias when talking about a caliber created by a company that has given him so much publicity and/or pay in the past (Freedom Group, Remington/AAC, Magpul).

    I’ve seen the trajectory/ballistics chart on the 110/120 grain 300AAC and lemme tell you – past 300 meters – it ain’t purdy! That’s not to say that you can’t hit targets past this difference but the amount of aim above the target (hold over – was it?) gets to be a bit ridiculous unless you have specialized glass.

    1. avatar rsilvers says:

      I work for AAC and am project lead on 300 AAC Blackout. If Freedom Group, AAC, or Remington sponsors him, that is news to me. I have never spoken to him or email or any communication. Your post is an anonymous and unsubstantiated claim.

      1. avatar Primos says:

        “Your post is an anonymous and unsubstantiated claim.”

        Can’t the same be said for yours?

        1. avatar Nick Leghorn says:

          Um, that’s Robert Silvers, R&D Director for AAC and father of the 300 BLK round.

          So, no.

        2. avatar sanchanim says:

          That is some ownage right there Nick!

        3. avatar WLCE says:

          i think i soiled myself from the laughter.

      2. avatar Southernmutt says:

        There’s a name I haven’t heard in forever… for apparent reasons. All hail the .300 BO. All hail Rsilvers. All hail the hypno toad. Now, where’s my check?

    2. avatar AnotherMatt says:

      “lemme tell you – past 300 meters – it ain’t purdy!”
      It’s not called the .300 Mortar for nothing!

  2. avatar ensitu says:

    Yeah
    The usual suspects are at work here

  3. avatar Kvjavs says:

    What ever happened to 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC that were coming to sweep the market by storm?

    Yeah…

  4. avatar AK says:

    Small arms cartridge development:

    7.62x39mm? No! To inaccurate! It shoots like a rainbow.

    5.56×45…. there, that’s a little better, a smaller projectile but it shoots flatter.

    Wait I know, what if we shortened the 5.56 case and put a .30 cal bullet in it! Brilliant!

    The only thing that 7.62x35mm does better than 7.62x39mm is fit in AR magwells and be subsonic.

    1. avatar Elliotte says:

      “The only thing that 7.62x35mm does better than 7.62x39mm is fit in AR magwells and be subsonic.”

      Wow, and wouldn’t you know, that’s what it was designed to do, fit in AR-15s, be subsonic, and be a replacement for MP5s among police and military forces

      1. avatar AK says:

        Great. So it fit a niche. The fan-boyish like following its received is annoying.

        1. avatar Michael B. says:

          +1

        2. My 300 BLK is more accurate, runs cooler, and hits harder than my 5.56 mm. What’s not to like?

        3. avatar Dan says:

          Go cry me a river. Boo hoo.

  5. avatar Mike in NC says:

    Like Nick, I am a fan of 300 AAC Blackout even though I will probably never jump through the hoops needed to own a sweet looking SBR with a can like the one in the video. I think that it is great having choices in ammo which enable one firearm to go from AK-like ballistics with supersonic 115-150 grain projectiles to something of a rifle/pistol-caliber-carbine hybrid throwing 220 grain subsonic bullets. I also like that I am only a barrel change away from a standard 5.56mm AR (or conversely, my standard 5.56mm AR is only a barrel change away from the dark side… errr… Blackout side.)

  6. avatar Accur81 says:

    Sounds like a 300 BLK aficionado to me, but if the 7.62 x 51 struggles past 600-800 meters, the BLK is going to drop much more. A 7.62 round will drop roughly 30 feet or so at 1000 yards (my pet Hornady 178 gr Superperformance Match will drop a bit less), a 300 BLK will drop roughly 75-90 feet at 1000 yards. I don’t know how that much drop can be reasonably accounted for save full auto fire and ‘walking’ the rounds into the target. Those rounds will likely have less than 160-180 FPE of energy at that point.

    A 6.8 SPC with 140 grain VLD would still be supersonic at 1000 yards, as would a good 6.5 Grendel or 7.62 x 51 load. With the trajectory and velocity of the 300 BLK, I just don’t see it as a long range cartridge.

  7. avatar Chase says:

    300 BLK is a scam.

    If you base everything off Rsilvers numbers, then yeah its pretty great. As you can see though Rsilvers is fast, already responding to criticism.

    Now there’s the 110 Barnes TTSX for 6.8 SPC and 300 BLK 110 Vortex, very similar bullets. AAC testing has it penetrating farther the 6.8 SPC version fired from 15 yards vs 100 yards, and 16″ vs 9″ barrel. Makes no logical sense that such a thing is possible unless AAC is using bad Simtest or lying.

    People over at M4Carbine took notice of the fact when you look at where Haley is shooting from towards in comparison to the video showing a close up of the target, look like two very different places.

    1. avatar rsilvers says:

      “People over at M4Carbine took notice of the fact when you look at where Haley is shooting from towards in comparison to the video showing a close up of the target, look like two very different places.”

      They are clearly the same place. Some people are just not good at perspective changes between wide angle and telephoto.

      “Now there’s the 110 Barnes TTSX for 6.8 SPC and 300 BLK 110 Vortex, very similar bullets. AAC testing has it penetrating farther the 6.8 SPC version fired from 15 yards vs 100 yards, and 16″ vs 9″ barrel. Makes no logical sense that such a thing is possible unless AAC is using bad Simtest or lying.”

      This is the data that was put out. The bullet did what it did. I don’t see anything unusual about the results. It is amazing performance:

      http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/files/2012/01/300BLK-300-small-500×336.jpg

      http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/300aacblkbarriersummary.jpg

  8. avatar Jamaal says:

    I’m confused on all the 300 BLK hate. If you dislike the 300BLK I believe you are obligated to hate .40s&w as well. The BLK detractors say it’s just an underpowered .308. Well, .40s&w is just an underpowered 10mm.

    300 BLK is not a specialized bullet that needs to be uniquely stocked at stores (like 5.7). you take you 5.56 brass and your .308 projectile and you in the fight. If your local redneck Rodeo Dr, I mean Walmart, won’t carry it it’s easy to reload. The casing and projectile can be found at Bass Pro.

    If 300blk is a scam so is .40s&w. I can make my 10mm round perform as poorly as the best .40s&w. There is no need for the round. AAC found a way to utilize a standard AR lower and magazine and give the AR-15 platform the punch it lacked in the eyes of AR critics.

    1. avatar AK says:

      It’s all relative.

      300BLK is just an underpowered 7.62×39

      7.62×39 is just an underpowered .308

      .308 is just an underpowered 7.62x54R

      7.62x54R is just an underpowered 30-06

      1. avatar rsilvers says:

        300 AAC Blackout has 16.7% more energy at 300 meters than 7.62x39mm.

  9. avatar Matt in FL says:

    In case you’re wondering what he’s shooting, that’s a Spike’s Tactical Compressor.

    Their page here.

    Gun porn on ar15.com here. (Warning: picture heavy link, hide your wallet and grab a change of shorts)

  10. avatar Isarmann says:

    Although I personally like the caliber, I must point out that “caliber,” “weapons system,” and, “platform” are not synonyms. Nor do such words singlehandedly give substance to content-lacking speech.

  11. avatar JAS says:

    My next upper will be a Wilson 6.8 SPC. I will never run it full auto like most, but it will be close to a .243 on an AR platform which is ideal for my use. Whatever is the best for the task at hand is what I will use, no compromises. And that’s just the thing. There is no such thing as a jack of all trades, only a jack that is good at one thing and mediocre or worse at most all of the rest….

    J.

  12. avatar sanchanim says:

    Ok I have to ask this question.
    The ACC is subsonic, and as such designed to be quiet. Why do you care how silent it is at a 1000 yards? I mean at 150 yards yeah that makes sense, but 1000? Lets say you are in the woods hunting deer, varmint or whatever, and you want to be quiet because you are in a tree stand and they are within 50 yards. Then what does accuracy at 1000 yards have to do with it?
    Yeah ok it is a niche market but it hasn’t faded away into the night!
    I would love to be able to run a 300 wing mag for long distance shooting on the AR platform. that would be fun. 308 which you can get now isn’t bad either for most game here in CA.

    1. avatar Mike in NC says:

      300 AAC Blackout is actually available in both supersonic and subsonic flavors. I think this is what throws some people when they look into it and see data for subsonic and don’t look for the supersonic half of the equation. Some ammo examples:

      Remington UMC target 115 grain: 2280 fps and 1344 ftlbs
      Remington Premier Match 125 grain: 2215 fps and 1360 ftlbs
      PNW Match 155 grain: 1990 fps and 1363 ftlbs
      Remington Express subsonic 220 grain: 1015 fps and 286 ftlbs
      Doubletap 240 grain: 950 fps and 560 ftlbs

      1. avatar Accur81 says:

        What’s really upsetting to me is that I’ll be forced to buy one after my wolf .40 to 9mm barrel conversion, and a Mossberg 930.

  13. I dare all the armchair snipers out there to get a load of what this cartridge can actually do. Being from Michigan, where we are not allowed SBRs (at least not yet…) I built up an AR pistol with an 8″ barrel in .300BLK and topped it with the excellent CMR 1-4 optic. After wrapping the buffertube in paracord and capping it with a cane tip, it performed the SBR role very well. So well that at my local range I was able to do exactly as Haley but at my range’s max range of 550yds. Understanding the benefits of having a supercompact and accurate rifle is not in everyone’s mindset yet. When you get laughed at by the GI Jokes at the range, just let the results do the talking. 40 rounds of 110gr AMAX on an IPSC at 550yds is no joke, even from a shoebox sized rifle.

    1. avatar Dash says:

      No joke indeed, man. As I watched Haley hit that torso target over and over at 750m (with a red dot!)…my level of incredulity just kept rising. Damn, that guy can shoot, and that platform is clearly very consistent. I used to scoff at 300 blackout, and have been looking at getting a .308 semi, but now I’m torn, as if I ever was force to use a gun in self-defense, a light, tight, hard hitter would be much more useful than a monstrous .308 with a minimum 18″ barrel (not much point to a .308 if it’s shorter than that.). I will have to think on this. 😉

  14. avatar WLCE says:

    Im feeling the itch. The itch of dropping some dough on a new rifle with a entirely new caliber. I havent done such a thing in over a decade. Perhaps it will be a nice breath of fresh air away from the 9mm, 45, 5.56, 7.62, 50 BMG paradigm. From the sounds of it, I have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

  15. avatar MTaylor says:

    As a law enforcement officer who works in urban and rural environments, the 300 BLK seems ideal. My current patrol rifle is a 5.56, which I never carried before I made the switch from an urban-only environment to my current assignment. When I was working in the inner city, I was worried about over-penetration with the 5.56 so my long gun of choice was a 12 ga. My biggest concern about working in the boonies was getting pinned down behind my car by some meth head with a deer rifle at 100+ yards so I bought my AR. But the statistics show that if I engage a target it will be inside of 20 feet, even out in the county, and will likely be inside of a dwelling or near one. This is why I, and my gun enthusiast partners are excited about the 300. It has the range we need and seemingly better knockdown than the 5.56. Our main concern is the price of ammo since we provide our own. The other main obstacle to making the switch is getting the 300 approved by our department which currently has a 5.56/.223-only policy. Those of us wanting to make the switch are trying to collect data on the 300 to make a “pitch” to our firearms guy. Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated!

  16. avatar skypirate7 says:

    “[.300 AAC Blackout is] combat effective out to a kilometer, which sounds as beautiful to my ears as the overture to Beethoven’s Fidelio”

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Cocaine is a hell of a drug.

  17. avatar Michael Kendall says:

    Its absurd how worked up people get over this stuff. Im former military and LEO and have carried 5.56 and 308 in the field. Each has its merits and disadvantages. The 300 blk fills a void between those two. Sure there are lots of others. Each designed to do something a little better than the next. If you like it, shoot it. If you dont, then dont shoot it. I like the 300 because I can use my pistol powders for reloading and the components are cheap. But dont crap on it because you heard this or read that. Try it and see. Its not a sniper round nor was it intended to be for pete’s sake. Its a combat/hunting round and does the job very well. Ive dumped two whitetail deer, 4 coyotes, and a couple pigs with mine. They didnt seem to notice if I shot them with a 300 BLK or a 300 Win Mag.

  18. avatar Chuck Hobbs says:

    Finally, someone who doesn’t think there is one magical round that will work for all applications. Reading these posts you get the idea that many supposedly gun savvy people hunt everything with one rifle. If that’s the case I can at last understand why there are no 22LR cartridges anywhere to be found.
    Seriously, there is no one caliber or bullet that will work in all situations, especially in the military. That is why the military uses everything from 5.56mm to .50 caliber depending upon mission requirements. It’s also why most of us have more than one caliber to use depending upon application.

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