Question of the Day: Is It Time To Stock Up On AR Lowers?

Has the President’s recent support for a renewed Assault Weapons Ban, in combination with Pollster.com’s electoral map, set you to worrying about your as-yet-unpurchased collection of Modern Sporting Rifles ™? If the answer to this question is “(Expletive of choice), Yes!”, you need to make sure your inchoate AR collection is grandfathered in before any AWB II legislation goes into effect. If you were made of money you could order a crate of Noveskes or LWRCs and put them on your Amex card. If you live with us in this universe, however, you’ll have to get creative. And you’ll have to study up on Foghorn’s Guide to assembling AR lowers too.

As you should all know by now, the ‘serialized’ part of an AR-pattern firearm is its lower receiver. This intrinsically useless lump of machined aluminum alloy is classified as a ‘firearm’ by our friends at the ATF, so it’s the only part of an AR which requires a Form 4473. Every other part (including but not limited to the lock, stock and barrel) can be ordered from wherever you like and delivered directly to your door.

Courtesy www.rguns.net

You can spend as much as you want to for an AR lower, but no-name stripped lowers can be amazingly cheap. This nickel-boron model shown at the top of the article can be yours for only a buck twenty-five, and if you don’t need the fancy NiBo coating you can get a plain hard-anodized model for $65 plus shipping and transfer fees. Click here for details.

courtesy Spike's Tactical

If you’d really like to know who made your AR lower, standard entry-level brands like DPMS, Stag and Spike’s Tactical can often be had for about $150 including shipping and transfer. If you buy in bulk many FFLs will give you a transfer fee discount, so call around and make your best deal.

Buying a stripped lower (or three) at these prices will let you start building your future AR collection now, without actually having to build any of those ARs now. And it puts the ‘firearm’ part of the firearms into your hands well ahead of any possible Assault Weapon Ban Part Deux, all for less than the price of a new Glock and a couple of magazines. Unless all sorts of legislative shit hits the fan (in the form of outright prohibition or confiscation of Evil Black Rifles) you’ll be able to purchase the remaining components and attach them to your ‘pre-ban’ firearm as and when you like.

But that reminds me: if you’re worried enough to stock up on AR lowers, you’re an idiot if you don’t stock up on normal-capacity 30-round magazines also…

 

73 Responses to Question of the Day: Is It Time To Stock Up On AR Lowers?

  1. avatarMichael B. says:

    I ordered three more surplus AK mags that I wanted anyway the night of the debate just to beat any potential price gouging after Obama’s remarks.

    • avatarJPD says:

      That’s exactly right. All the hysteria when Obama was sworn into office in 2009. No AWB. What happened, everyone panics, gun retailers and manufacturers raise prices. We happily pay the prices.

      Now, if he is re-elected, what happens. Even if AWB is “re-introduced” Do the math. Firearm supporting Republicans and Democrats have a definite majority in both houses.

      End result, we panic AGAIN…..prices go up. I wonder how much under the table money Obama is getting from Smith & Wesson??

      • avatarjwm says:

        Bill Clinton stop the importation of perfectly legit firearms from overseas with a simple EO. Majorities in the house and senate gaurantee nothing.

  2. avatarRoll says:

    LOL, ordered my lower parts kit yesterday, gonna wait on the local gunstore to get the actual lower.

  3. avatarChainsawWieldingManiac says:

    I would think that you want to have BUILT rifles if you think an AWB is coming down the pipe. I think it is well within the realm of possibility that the ATF might rule that only guns that were in a banned configuration prior to the ban would be grandfathered in under a new ban. A lower unto itself is not in a banned configuration…

    • avatarPaul Rain says:

      Very much agreed.. the idea that any assault on gun-rights will be conducted in a ‘business-as-usual-but-now-you-can’t-buy-non-CA-legal-lowers’ fashion is pretty ridiculous.

      Perhaps it would be legal to get them grandfathered in.. just with a little anti-crime measure.. register the combination of the lower with a nice new also-serialled upper reciever. You’d have to be an evil domestic terrorist to be against that.

      That said.. the AR lowers are the parts with the eeevul pistol grip attach points and detachable mag well. Unless America’s Great Leader bans selling upper receivers seperately.. or puts a large tax on doing so.. who cares if they’re banned or not? The lowers will sleep in cosmolite until thawed out just the same either way.

  4. avatarMoonshine says:

    My local Scheel’s is selling DPMS Oracle’s for under $650 as of last night. No price hike yet.

  5. avatarshea says:

    It is my understanding that the AR itself doesn’t violate the AWB, but having 2 or more of the items listed on the restricted items list does. Does that mean that if the SN on your lower predates the ban date, you can outfit your rifle with whatever bells ans whistles you want anytime after the fact? Or does it mean that after the ban you can no longer keep those items on the gun.

    • avatarXGP says:

      I believe that since you have a preban Serial number you can outfit it with whatever bells and whistles you want. This is of course assuming that a new AWB would be similar to the old one.

      • avatarshea says:

        So it sounds like if AWB is passed simmilar to the one in 94 the lower itself can still be manufactured, because only certain configurations would be illegal. That would make enforcement almost impossible. A LEO walking into a gun range would have to request permission to check the serial number of any rifle in questionable configuration and somehow run the sn to see if it is pre or post ban.

        • avatarrosignol says:

          Congresscritters have never been terribly concerned with practicality. This is one of the reasons BATF is so deeply disliked by gunowners- Congress passes nonsense, BATF is responsible for making sense of it and enforcing it, and they occasionally come up with onerous and irrational rules.

      • avatarUncle Lar says:

        “This is of course assuming that a new AWB would be similar to the old one.”
        And there’s the rub. The reason the ’94AWB was allowed to sunset was that it didn’t do what the anti gun crowd wanted. In fact it encouraged additional ownership of firearms carefully configured to comply with their silly restrictions. They won’t make that mistake again. At a minimum I would expect there to be no “grandfather” exemption. I’d also anticipate a blanket prohibition on all semi auto firearms with the possible exception of rimfire, and perhaps not even those.

  6. avatarPeter says:

    I have currently 3 mega gtr-3s ambi lowers with one more on the way. Also have a maten. Have about 50 pmags but need to stockpile some 308 mags! I am thinging of getting a basic ar forged lower for 22 lr cmmg upper since it makes my mega billet lowers super dirty and gritty. Have about 4 thou in rounds but need to get more federal sg 12700 rounds….after that i guess that is all i can do short of getting nvg before obama bans that also.

    • avatarBob Hart says:

      Peter,

      I have been looking for a Mega GTR-3S just before school shooting on the east coast. Now with that incident I can’t find what I am looking for. Are you interested in selling one of your lowers? If so please reply.

      Thank you in advace,

      Bob Hart

  7. avatarnonnamous says:

    What are the odds of this having the same rules as the ’94 AWB? (Assuming it actually comes to pass.)

    • avatarrosignol says:

      It’d be 94+. The anti-gunners aren’t morons, they’ve read a fair bit of the criticisms of the ’94 AWB and you can expect them to ‘fix’ the flaws and loopholes.

      But I agree with the people saying AWB2 is a distraction- the real action will be Supreme Court nominations. We need to elect Senators who will oppose bad nominees, and the current lot doesn’t.

  8. avatarXGP says:

    Went and bought me a new lower yesterday.

  9. avatarTim says:

    So, if you have the receiver before the ban, it is legal to have it built in a pre-ban config?

    I ask because I won an FAL receiver and I want to know if I can build it someday. I don’t have funds to now, but I want to know if it ever has a shot at being built into a full gun.

    • avatarNot Your Mother says:

      Nobody can answer that until the “ban” happens, if it does.

    • avatarGeodkyt says:

      The way the ’94 “Scary Gun Ban” was written, the grandfathering only applied if you had already ASSEMBLED the gun into a scary configuration before the ban went into effect. ATF also determined that merely HAVING all the parts to assemble a scary gun counted as “assembled” – for granfathering purposes ONLY. (NOTE — that ruling did NOT mean that collecting scary parts along with your post-ban “scare-free” rifle was “assembling”, which is why it was legal to have scary bits and a post-ban rifle, so long as you didn’t attach the bits. But if you had a pre-ban stripped receiver AND a pre-ban scary parts kit, it was grandfathered, even if you hadn’t gotten around to assembling it yet.)

      If so, it was grandfathered, and you could swap parts to make it even scarier (within the NFA, GCA, and your state law, of course) to your heart’s content.

      Of course, it takes about 20 seconds to move the same upper to another lower, and not too terribly long to swap the trigger groups and stock assemblies.

      So, IF an AWB2 comes along, and IF it is written like the 1994 “It’s a Crime, Bill” AWB, then you should take your stripped receivers and at least A set of parts, and document that EACH receiver has been built into “scary” configuration BEFORE the ban takes effect.

      Of course, I doubt that any Son of Ban will include a grandfather clause at all, if one ever passes. . . the gungrabbers learned from their “mistakes”.

  10. avatarmountocean says:

    I wouldn’t be too confident in any speculation on what will or won’t be grandfathered in to a hypothetical AWB II. A lot of people were pretty dismayed by all the “loopholes” in the 94 ban; so while I have no idea what it will be (if, God forbid, it happens) I’m confident it won’t be identical to AWB I.

    • avatarXGP says:

      Agreed.

    • avatarBill F says:

      +1
      The pattern with firearm laws seems to be to making everything we want a giant pain in the ass to get, rather than flat out banning it. Manufacturers already know how to deal with the prior ban. In fact they’re doing it now when offering configurations legal for NY, where the old ban is still in effect. The grabbers won’t settle for that. Renewal of the old ban would only be, in their eyes, an “inconvenience” to us, rather than an insurmountable obstacle. If nothing else, watch for the prior (and current NY) list of “evil features” to be expanded to the point of rediculousness.

  11. avatarAlphaGeek says:

    I’ve read the articles and I’m getting ready to buy two off-list lowers (CA residents will know what I mean), one in 5.56 and another in 7.62.

    Are there any substantive differences between, say, a Spikes ST-15 stripped lower receiver at $110, versus the S&W MP15 stripped lower at $170? Other than the brand name on the receiver, why would I want to pay more for the S&W part?

    • avatarAverage_Casey says:

      I think S&W makes all of their parts for their ARs (I read it in one of the magazines awhile ago) so they are technically different but if you get a mil-spec receiver it doesn’t matter. Most of the receivers are made by a couple of manufacturers like Mega and Aero Precision. It’s just that other companies pay those two to stamp their logo on it. If you go to most gun stores that have their own name and logo on the receiver you will notice that the description is identical like Surplus Ammo and Arms and Double Star. I think all of those are made by Aero. I wouldn’t pay more for a name brand receiver unless it’s a lefty because I don’t think Mega or Aero make those.

      • avatarAlphaGeek says:

        That’s useful background info, but I’m not sure it answered my question. Is there any functional or quality difference between the OEM’d lowers (Spikes et al) and the S&W made-in-house lower?

        • avatarRambeast says:

          Some brands will have a slight gap between other brand’s upper. Example DPMS and Armalite. The most noticable is with AR-10s, but 15s will be as well. I have a Bushmaster lower that you cannot get any other brand upper to fit perfectly flush to. It does not affect function, just asthetics.

  12. avatarjwm says:

    If a new ban happens, who’s to say they’ll allow “grandfathering”? The way to derail this is to defeat the dems and hopefully they’ll learn to stay away from the 3rd rail.

    • avatarImhotep says:

      They basically have no choice. The constitution prohibits passing “ex post facto” (literally, after the fact) laws, as doing so would criminalize behaviour that was at the time legal, when the individual believed it to be legal. That being said, the courts have upheld retroactive laws that they believe to be “regulatory”, and not “punitive” in nature, such as the requirement that sex offenders register their presence, even if the law didn’t exist when they committed their crime.

      Either way, I think this is nothing more than the NRA’s usual scare mongering to boost sales. Obama is the best thing that ever happened to them. Both Dems and Reps are fearful of the NRA’s wrath and ability to sway voters and would steer clear from such issues. I’ll wait until prices drop 3 months from now.

      • avatarGeodkyt says:

        Oh, you mean like when they banned narcotics?

        IF a ban is legal, there is no reason they MUST include a grandfather clause. After all, it isn’t an ex post facto law.

        An ex post facto law is simply when you are being punished for behavior that was legal WHEN YOU DID IT.

        You would not be punished for possession of a banned weapon before the ban took effect. You would be punished for possession AFTER the ban takes effect. As soon as it becomes contraband, possession is illegal from that point forward. Which isn’t criminalizing your behavior “after the fact” (what “ex post facto” means.)

        Just like felons are banned from possessing firearms AFTER they are convicted, even if they were not convicted felons when they bought the firearms. Once they become convicted felons, the guns become contraband.

      • avatarNEIOWA says:

        Who did that work out for you Kreskin?

  13. avatarAverage_Casey says:

    Anyone who is looking to buy a receiver from the company link provided may want to go look at that company’s reviews in a couple of forums. You should research a company before you purchase from them.

  14. avatarJim Barrett says:

    I’m on the fence about the whole AWB thing. First of all, the advice given in this column assumes that AWB II would be similar enough to AWB I that having stripped lowers would be the key to circumventing it. I suspect that if an AWB was forthcoming, pretty much every single AR part on the market would get snapped up, so even if you had a stripped lower, you couldn’t do much with it.

    While an outright gun confiscation similar to what happened in Australia is not particularly likely here, it would not surprise me if a new AWB tried to limit people’s ability to take stripped lowers and turn them into full fledged guns. All sorts of things could be put into place such as a transfer tax like what we have with Class III weapons. This would not affect people’s rights to keep the guns they actually have, but if the tax were high enough, it would depress the resale market.

    With respect to a new AWB, a couple of things to consider. First of all, the AWB of 1994 was not a stand-alone law. It was part of Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, which was the largest law and order bill ever passed by Congress. It did a lot more than simply ban some guns. Whether or not it would have passed as a standalone act is open to question. It’s also worth mentioning that Democrats controlled both House and Senate during the consideration of this bill. It was in November of 1994 (two months after the bill was signed into law) that Republicans took control of both houses. Even with a Democrat controlled house, senate and presidency, a 10 year sunset provision on the law could not be overcome.

    It also took nearly a year from the date the AWB was proposed to the date it was signed and went into law. Gun makers are not stupid people. They are as good at reading the tea leaves as anyone. If it looked even possible like something was going to move forward, I suspect that anyone with a CNC machine and a license would start turning out lowers and other parts. I imagine that should an AWB loom over us, we will be temporarily awash in enough AR-15 parts that everyone would have a chance to get all that they need.

    For that reason, I don’t see the point in hoarding lowers or for that matter, complete guns. Magazines on the other hand make sense because even if they don’t get outlawed, they do wear out, so it makes sense to pick them up when possible. Also, while I don’t see an outright ban on AR-15 pattern rifles coming any time soon, a magazine size limitation has a decent chance of getting passed at some point in the next decade or so. I hope it does not, but I might as well prepare for the worst.

  15. avatarTRUTHY says:

    The sky is falling! The sky is falling!! Never ends……same old same old.

    • avatarRalph says:

      I agree. Just because Obama said he wants to reinstitute an AWB doesn’t mean he told the truth.

      Yup, I’m pretty sure that Obama was lying.

      • avatarAlphaGeek says:

        I think you meant that to be a tongue in cheek comment, but… I think he was telling the truth when he said he’d like to see AWB 2.0 introduced.

        I think he was lying by omission because he implied he’d like to see it passed, when in fact actually signing AWB 2.0 into law wouldn’t be aligned with his priorities. Far more useful as red meat for a subset of the Democratic Party base. There are plenty of similar red-meat/snowball-chance-in-hell issues on the GOP side.

        If President Obama was actually presented with AWB 2.0 for signature, he’d be like the proverbial dog that accidentally succeeded in catching the car he was chasing.

        • avatarjwm says:

          So the best way to avoid this mutt accidentally catching the car is to put this mutt out of office.

        • avatarAlphaGeek says:

          Or maintain mixed control of the Federal gov’t. Chances are very low that the House is going to flip blue this season.

          I’m against President Obama on a couple of issues (2A and unlawful detention without due process being the main ones) but overall I’d rather have him in office than any Republican. I know that’s heresy around here, but the man has done solid work cleaning up the mess left behind by his predecessor, whom I consider the worst president of the last 40 years.

        • avatarMoonshine says:

          @AlphaGeek:
          So, you’re okay with being compelled, via threat of fine, to purchase a product or service?

        • avatarAlphaGeek says:

          Moonshine,
          I accept that in certain cases society (specifically American society) benefits from compelling its citizens to participate in economic activity, as long as allowances are made for those who lack the means to participate.

          I’m glad to participate in both Social Security and Medicare, because I see the benefits both to society and to (potentially) myself.

          I accept that the state requiring me to maintain car liability insurance, sufficient to prevent me from causing economic harm to others I may injure, is beneficial to society, as well as to me in the event I am injured.

          Having considered the alternatives, I definitely believe that society benefits from ensuring that the vast majority of its citizens receive something more effective than emergency-room healthcare. Those “free” ER visits which have been the primary care for far too many Americans is far more expensive than getting those same people into the healthcare system and receiving non-emergency care.

          Does that mean that I think the government should be able to dictate what hat I must buy and wear? Not at all. Nor should the government compel me to buy a particular gun, or worse, PREVENT me from buying a gun, unless the potential harm to society outweighs my individual rights. For example, I fully support restrictions on gun possession & ownership for those with serious mental disorders, convicted violent felons, and persons with restraining orders against them related to violence or the threat of violence.

  16. avatarRalph says:

    Every other part (including but not limited to the lock, stock and barrel) can be ordered from wherever you like and delivered directly to your door.

    True now, but not necessarily true if there was a new AWB. It would depend on what is banned, and what is not.

  17. avatarJoe Grine says:

    Of course, all of this discussion assumes that the next AWB will have a grandfather clause for pre-existing weapons in teh hands of dealers, distributors, or customers. What is more likely in a second Obama Administration is a “turn ‘em in” type of ban.

    • avatarAlphaGeek says:

      Do you really believe that this is going to become the law of the land, nationwide, given the last 8-10 years of substantial progress on 2A rights?

      I just don’t find claims of a Federal confiscatory gun ban to be at all credible. I don’t believe it would be passed or signed in to law, I sure as heck don’t believe it would withstand a court challenge, much less the barrage of court challenges that would ensue, and there’s no practical way the Feds could put such a confiscation program into effect in the US.

  18. avatarSanchanim says:

    See I have been saying this for months now. Obama is good for the economy! Gun manufactures are hiring, stores are selling, ammo sales skyrocketing! Come on people this is great for the economy!!
    Ok sarcasm off now…
    What ever ban they try to pass may or may not have some sort of grandfather clause. The SB 249 here in CA that is dead at the moment had no such provision. Basically thousands of people would be instant felons if they didn’t go down to the local po po and turn in their black scary rifle.
    The US needs to tread lightly in this arena. If Obama is back in office, and if there is an AWB which is an outright ban on AR and AK platforms regardless of bullet buttons, magazine size, or what ever, I think we might see a lot of violence on our hands. Waco will look like a cake walk. Ruby ridge will be like Mr Rogers neighborhood. I don’t think people will simply lie down and except it. Unfortunately this will put LEO’s and the ATF square in the middle.

    • avatarAlphaGeek says:

      On that we can agree 100%. Any Federal ban which includes confiscation of guns that are currently legal is a non-starter.

  19. avatarSammy says:

    It’s Hillary and the UN you have to watch as well. Obama is like Chavez North. All it takes is an EO from His Excellency (that is what his cousin (?),referred to him as in an Aljazeera interview where it was also disclosed that Barack Obama’s “Granny Sarah” is using the Obama name to raise money to fund Sharia educations). What country is he the leader of again?

    • avatarAlphaGeek says:

      I hear the black helicopters coming for you! Run and hide in your doomsday bunker, Sammy! (Don’t forget to put on your tinfoil hat and stick Kleenex boxes on your feet…)

  20. avatarAM says:

    Delaware machinery lowers have screwed up magazine release holes.

    • avatarWiKDMoNKY says:

      Why is there no mention of 80% lowers in the article????

      • avatarRambeast says:

        Finding a machinist to finish them will be a pain for almost anyone.

        • avatarAlphaGeek says:

          You might be surprised. Home machine shops are not as populous as gun collections in the US, but there are large numbers of mills and lathes in garages and basements across the US. A significant number of them are CNC these days.

          I personally know of two home-garage CNC operations within a mile of my house that are commercially producing small-quantity parts runs. Either one would be fully capable of doing the finish machining on an 80% lower, and those are just the shops that I know about.

          Hell, given a week to putz around with setups and order new tooling, and a spare 80% lower to screw up on the first try, I could do the work on my non-CNC mill. Might not be Aero Precision level of surface finish quality, but the finish product would function correctly.

    • avatarRambeast says:

      Did some reading up. It appears they can be tight on Pmags. Not a deal breaker since cleaning up the magwell is not a mammoth undertaking.

      Being a southpaw shooter, this might come in handy since I reload with my hand wrapped around the mag, and hit the release with my thumb. This might assist with some FTF with loose mags as well.

    • avatarKeith says:

      I’ve put together two deleware machinery lowers and the only problem I had was that I had to lightly sand the sharp edges on one of my uppers to get it to slide in smoothly.

  21. avatarAccur81 says:

    I have a Mormon friend in CA who bought 5 stripped lowers after the sunset of the 94 AWB. He is still a CA resident, and has 5 fully functional lowers, that don’t have worthless bullet buttons. If I could go back in time, I would have done the same thing. Stocking up, given today’s political climate, makes a whole lot of sense to me. Then again, I live by the olde school Boy Scout motto: be prepared.

    • avatarAlphaGeek says:

      You can still buy and possess stripped lowers without bullet buttons. You can do that today, and in fact I’ll be doing so in the next few weeks.

      If you’re in CA you can’t assemble them into a pistol-gripped AR without a bullet button. That’s equally true for the lowers I’m buying as it is for your friends stripped lowers. His date of purchase is irrelevant. To put it another way, you can absolutely build an AR with all the evil features and no bullet button on (any) stripped lower — but you’ll be committing a felony regardless of when/where you bought that lower receiver.

      And I agree that following the Boy Scout motto is always a good plan. I’m still working my way through the substantial stock of .40S&W FMJ I bought when it looked like we were going to lose the ability to buy ammo online.

  22. avatarRambeast says:

    Wow…$65 lowers on RGUNs. Just ordered 2. Plain Jane finish, but I planned on getting my next AR’s coated anyway. Thanks for the link Chris and Nick. :D

  23. avatarJohn says:

    “When’s the best time to plant a tree? Ten years ago. When’s the second best time to plant a tree? Today!”

  24. avatarspike says:

    I only wish I manufactured AR-15 parts so everyone would panic and spend all of their disposable income on thousands of dollars worth of AR parts to put in their basement for when the bad men come to take their guns. Somebody is making some coin, and it isn’t the ones buying all the tacticool accessories

  25. avatarDerryM says:

    So, if AWB II comes to reality, I wonder how many people it will put out of work and how many small businesses it will close in the long run? If the number is big enough, maybe it would scare Barry into dropping the idea. Perusing “The Shotgun News” the other day I could not help but notice that the majority of the ads had to do with AR and AK complete rifles, parts, accessories and add-ons.

  26. avatar"Dr." Dave says:

    Its always time to stock up on AR lowers!

    Build them, swap them, trade them to a friend, bury them, sell ‘em, I always have a few bouncing around the work shop.

  27. avatarMichael says:

    Forget banning certain guns, in the future, gun control will come in the form of taxing and limiting necessary items related to guns I.E. magazines, ammunition, reloading components, etc. Magazines, ammo, powder, primers, and bullets are what I’m buying. Trying to pass a bill like 94 AWB has a very small chance of happening now. If magazines and ammo dry up, your gun is useless.

  28. avatarSDFreeman says:

    AlphaGeek says:
    October 18, 2012 at 20:17
    Or maintain mixed control of the Federal gov’t. Chances are very low that the House is going to flip blue this season.

    I’m against President Obama on a couple of issues (2A and unlawful detention without due process being the main ones) but overall I’d rather have him in office than any Republican. I know that’s heresy around here, but the man has done solid work cleaning up the mess left behind by his predecessor, whom I consider the worst president of the last 40 years.

    My reply is fast & furious if BO is willing to let people get killed with his illegal gun running to further his perverted agenda’s that all by itself leads to BO has to go.

    • avatarAlphaGeek says:

      I spent an hour tonight re-reading the excellent, neutral-viewpoint Wikipedia article on Fast & Furious, plus a bunch of the sources it cited. Here’s the link:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

      There is no proof whatsoever, NONE, that President Obama even knew of F&F before Eric Holder got involved in the program. If the President has no knowledge of a program, how is he then to be held responsible for “let[ting] people get killed with his illegal gun running to further his perverted agenda’s” as a result of that program?

      F&F operated on questionable assumptions from the start, and both the ATF and the US Attorneys in the Southwestern US were idiots for enabling it to happen. If anything, they’re the ones who should be held responsible, not President Obama. Of course, it’s much easier to focus your rage on POTUS than a collection of no-name mid-level federal law enforcement officers, isn’t it?

      I don’t know why I’m bothering to respond, other than that I hate to see falsehoods go unchallenged. You’re clearly a conspiracy theorist of the highest order, and my only surprise is that you didn’t throw in a gratuitous comment about birth certificates or secret Muslim tendencies. Yes, clearly President Obama has nothing better to do than to secretly order guns to be sold to Mexican drug cartels so he can (cue evil laughter) ban all the guns in the US.

      Wait, what?

      • avatarMichael says:

        You have a good point, except for one little problem. Obama granting Eric Holder executive privilege inserts himself into the fiasco. By helping to make sure that the real truth never sees the light of day, he becomes the Number 1 person to blame here. Had he allowed the House Oversight Committee to continue he would be a lot less culpable. Just my thoughts… (and for what its worth, I don’t think he knew at the time what was going on, but he sure as hell knows it all now – and we don’t)

      • avatarGeodkyt says:

        Obama picked his team to run Justice.

        It’s his crap sandwich.

        Remember, you can delegate authority, but NEVER responsibility.

        Just like Bush took the heat for bad decisions made by HIS administration officials.

  29. avatarAngel says:

    I bought myself another stripped lower as soon as the debate ended. I was already on the fence to get one and that just pushed me over. I think the real issue though is going to be getting the parts for a stripped lower if they pass a new AWB.

    I wasn’t old enough to purchase a gun when the last AWB was in place so I don’t really know all the technicalities of it. My understanding is that they didn’t ban any guns at all, just accessories like adjustable buttstocks and pistol grips. I know there’s no way to tell what will be in a new AWB, but if it similar to the old one a stripped lower by itself won’t do much good if no one will sell you a pistol grip or buttstock, or charge you $200 for each.

    Also for those of you wanting to stock whole guns, don’t forget to get spare parts. If an AWB passes i doubt they’ll be as many manufactures as there are now, so getting a new firing pin or a buffer retaining spring is probably going to be more difficult than it is now.

    And while I’m here, does anyone recommend any other purchases to prep for an AWB. I’m looking into getting some 30 round PMags and an LPK for the above mentioned reasons, but anything else I should be getting? I’m thinking of also throwing in some “standard” capacity mags for my pistols since there’s already plenty of states that ban those already.

  30. avatarMike DeArmond says:

    I would say its time to stock up on 3d printers

  31. avatarBambiB says:

    All the political hand-wringing leaves me wondering just how stupid gun owners are.

    After all, you had an A+ rated candidate who wanted to repeal the NFA 1934 and the GCA 1968, and gun owners were too dense to support him.

    Now we have a choice between someone who wants to ban guns and someone who wants to ban guns… depending on what day of the week it is.

    I refuse to play the game any more. With Ron Paul out of the running, I’ll be voting for Gary Johnson – the only candidate left whose head isn’t firmly up his ass.

  32. avatarRobert Hooper says:

    Sad to say but the last AWB required that you prove the rifle was completely assembled prior to the date of the ban. Buying a lower won’t help if this is what is done this time around.

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