Question of the Day: What’s the Big Deal About Printing?

TTAG commentator Buuurr writes: “I’ve always wondered what the obsession with printing was myself. I wear my Springfield XDm 9mm with the extended mag in a pocket holster all the time. The mag of the gun sticks out of my pocket if I do anything but stand straight. I go to the bank, the grocery store and near everywhere else but the post office like this. No one notices. And if they do notice they do not care because no one has commented on it before. I have a very cute daughter that is of the ‘random-women-of-all-ages-in-public-places-stopping-us’ age and none have said anything or looked to be surprised. Nine out of the ten of the most common stores and shopping centers we visit have a uniformed police officer at the door. Nothing…

I guess I would just like to ask what everyone is afraid of? Not just the guys in this particular thread but everyone. Why not just carry it?

My wife once asked me what they would do to me if I walked into a place that did not allow guns, “arrest you?” She said. She had a great point. I go nowhere a gun is not permitted except the post office. If I walk into a place where my gun is not welcome there damn well better be a sign because if I am arrrested (which is unlikely) I have an awesome case for entrapment. And if the place does not have a no carry sign and someone goes off on me well now I have a great case for harassment. It’s a win win situation.”

So what’s the big deal about printing?

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About Robert Farago

Robert Farago is the Publisher of The Truth About Guns (TTAG). He started the site to explore the ethics, morality, business, politics, culture, technology, practice, strategy, dangers and fun of guns.

78 Responses to Question of the Day: What’s the Big Deal About Printing?

  1. avatarST says:

    What’s the big deal, the man asks….

    Ill tell you point blank-it is because no two states are alike regarding cultural attitudes on the 2nd Amendment. In my current state of residence, I could walk down main street openly carrying and not draw any odd looks, much less a bogus Man With a Gun call. In (INSERT LIBERAL ENCLAVE OF RTC STATE HERE) I’d make sure the gun was so concealed *I* wouldn’t know where it is. One gust of wind or garment string catching on furniture, and the whole world knows youre armed. Including the local police, who frown on people carrying better guns than them.

    In summary:Covering the gun every day keeps the lawyers at bay!

    • avatarBuuurr says:

      For your state this would seem to be the case. However, not for me. I guess I should have poised the question to those that live in gun friendly states like me. Or maybe it is that the folk posting on here with the printing issue are in your type of situation mostly and it really just isn’t an issue for those in Ohio. Either way I have my answer.

      I should add that I disagree with the blanket police comment. The officer at my grocery store knows my gun because we have a mutual interest. The officer at my local bank was thinking of getting one of mine until I mentioned that if I had the time back I would have an LCP for convince. We struck up this conversation as I was making sure he was okay with the weapon as many police are different. Luckily for me so far I have had nothing but good guys.

  2. avatarMoonshine7102 says:

    Depends on two things, IMHO:

    1. Jurisdiction: In some states, “No Guns” signs carry the force of law. Thankfully, Minnesota is not one of them. I am not a lawyer, read up on the laws in your state, yadda yadda yadda.

    2. The awareness of the average person you are likely to meet: Just plain pitiful, in my experience. Different rules at sporting events, concerts and most other VERY public places, of course.

    With that said, I am 5’8″ and around 150#. I carry a full-size 1911 every day, all day. I’m sure I’ve printed. I’ve never been called on it. Even by my mother.

    • avatarMichael C says:

      One point on your jurisdiction point. In those areas where no guns signs carry the force of law, only certain, very specific signs actually carry the force of law. No guns signs that do not meet that jurisdiction’s legal requirements can be legally ignored. If it is private property, such as a business, the property owner, or an agent thereof, such as a security guard or management, can require you to leave the premises.

  3. avatarRIGHT! says:

    This is why those tiny 9mms are so handy

  4. avatarTD says:

    not a big deal to me, never much crosses my mind whether I am or not.

  5. avatarBill C. says:

    You carry into banks? At least where I live that is a no no, as is in most if not all states. Am I wrong?

    • avatarMatt says:

      As long as the bank is not posted, it is legal to carry in them in TN.

    • avatarC. Walther says:

      No problems in Texas either unless they have a 30.06 sign.

      Just curious as to what state you live in. I haven’t found one yet that has laws against carrying into banks.

    • avatarChad says:

      Yes, your wrong. Each state is different. In my State of Missisippi, here is my restrictions: Can not carry in a jail or police station, or the inside of the court room, unless prior permission from the judge is received.

      Mississippi doesn’t require training, but if you get training on your own and then get an “endrosement”, added to your carry permit, all restrictions, are lifted, except the above mentioned ones. PERIOD.

      If your carrying concealed and doing it right, NOBODY will know your carrying in the first place.

      Yes, businesses can put up the NO GUNS signs. They do NOT carry the weight of law, so I walk right past them. Do that in Tennessee and you go to jail. You must know the law in each state you go!

    • avatarJohn Fritz says:

      It’s O-K in P-A.

      Matter of fact, you’re good to go damn near everywhere in the Keystone State. Bar? Bank? Boutique? Beer Distributor*? Arm up.

      P.O. and courthouse, not so much.

      * What’s a Beer Distributor? You don’t want to know…

      • avatarjkp says:

        Not every state is as free as Pennsylvania. Some of them — like Texas — pretend to respect the right while burdening it with all kinds of restrictions.

    • You are wrong. It’s only a handful of states in the east where you cannot legally carry into a bank.

    • avatarBobS says:

      Florida has no prohibition on carrying in banks, sign or no sign. (signs have no force of law here) A few banks even welcome them.

    • avatarPhydeaux says:

      You can carry in banks here in Oregon.

    • avatarExNuke says:

      If you have the “enhanced” permit in Mississippi you are legal in banks and most anyplace else that isn’t restricted by Federal law. Post Office, Airport secure areas, Court House, Police Station/Jail or “place of nuisance”. Haven’t spent any time in Jackson recently so YMMV there but most of the smaller places just have no problem with guns unless you act a fool in which case you may well get your ass handed to you. I don’t have a problem with that.

    • avatarracer88 says:

      Regardless of any signs, carry into banks is legal in Florida. :)

      Banks aren’t on the “off-limits” list. And signs means nothing here.

    • avatarDerek Dauma (formerly Other Derek) says:

      I carry every time I visit my bank in AZ. I will not bank at an organization that posts like M&I.

  6. avatarConstitutional Right says:

    Two reasons: 1) don’t alarm people unnecessarily; 2) guns are for protection, not political statements.
    First, why risk having to interact with law enforcement over a non-issue? Sure charges would get dropped, but why get arrested? Defense attorneys cost tens of thousands of dollars. A good concealment holster is under $100.
    Second, carrying a gun is a personal and private decision, not an opportunity to make a political statement. I don’t want to see your gun and you don’t need to see mine. Let’s not confuse the First and Second Amendments. If you use public displays of guns to make political statements you risk creating a public backlash and potential future deprivations of rights. Please don’t do that.

    • avatarBob says:

      +1 Not to mention, a bad guy is one to be more likely to notice that gun sticking out of your pocket and shoot you first.

      • avatarJohnH says:

        Why is everyone so obsessed with the idea that if a bad guy sees your gun, you’ll be the first one shot? Will someone please offer some real evidence this rumor has some truth in it? So far as I can tell from the news reports of self defense shootings, if you have a gun, the bad guy is more likely to be shot and arrested and the crime thwarted.Having a gun so deeply concealed that it is unseeable, also makes it very unobtainable. Open carry is the only form of carry in which the guns presense adds a deterrent effect. Most crooks retain a desire to live, and the presense of a gun plainly signals that a fight will ensue over criminal behavior.

        • avatarBuuurr says:

          Yeah, I do not get that paranoia either.

        • avatarCarlosT says:

          As far as I can tell, it comes from a sort of “if I were robbing a bank…” type of conjecture.

          I think the thought process is if the criminal is really, truly committed to following through with the crime, then he’d look for obstacles in his path and seek to eliminate them. You, as a person obviously carrying a gun, is one such obstacle, and therefore must be removed. Therefore, you will be shot first.

          Now, whether that has actually ever played out that way in real life is another question, but I’m pretty sure that’s what people are thinking when they raise that objection.

    • avatarThomasR says:

      Constitutional Right? Interesting choice.

      I open carry because in New Mexico I can do so without a need of a permit as a free man. Or I can conceal carry with a permit, by acknowleging the state as my master and I as the servant and turning the second amendment right into a privilege. So I’ve opened carried as a free man for three years.

      What I find amusing about this is that the Founding Fathers made the same political statement when they fought one of the greatest military powers of the time because they prefered being free to being a servant; if I can stand for this principle in even this small way, I’m proud to do so.

      This other twaddle of the bad guy shooting you to get your gun flies in the face of basic criminal behavior, they look for the helpless, weak and defenseless; that’s why mass shooters look for gun free zones; also, what is the difference between wearing a gun or a person wearing an expensive wrist watch, a woman with a diamond necklace or wearing a pair of expensive tennis shoes;shoot, the biggest difference is the criminal will leave the gun owner alone, but if they do target the gun owner, because there is always exceptions when it comes to rules about human behavior; that’s what situational awareness is for and why your wearing the gun.

      I’ve opened carried for three years and have had nothing but positive experiences with the police and my fellow citizens; a number have come up to shake my hand in carrying this way and a number of predator types have come hunting in my vicinity during those three years and immediately left the area after seeing me watching them and they see my gun.
      Except for California, where has Open Carry caused increased restrictions? The norm is either less restrictions or they stay the same.

      In the end, for those people who live in states where you can open carry without a permit; all of the reasons people use to rationalize and excuse becoming a servant of the state in practicing what is the most important right that shall not be infringed simply for the convenience to hide the fact that they are carrying a weapon, is very shallow and hollow to me.

      For me, I’ll practice my rights as a free American.

  7. avatarKris says:

    In my concealed carry classes, i put it to my students like this: open carry is looked upon a bit like a guy walking around wearing a bikini top. Nothing illegal about it but it’s hard for anyone who encounters you to focus on anything but the elephant in the room. Well, then printing is a bit like having your fly open or tucking your shirt into your underwear. Its less glaring than a bikini top, but still makes things a little awkward for onlookers who happen to notice. Most people in our midwestern state are comfortable with guns, but sensibilities are easily offended. It doesn’t do our cause any good to scream, “because I can!”

    So, keep it close to the vest and check your fly.

  8. avatarOldLawman says:

    As first an active, now retired LEO, I have never been called out for carrying concealed. Better not to advertise, and be able to respond when needed. No need getting hassled, even if you have a permit. (No need to have a discussion about the principle of “needing” a permit in this forum).
    I always carry everywhere I do not have to walk through a metal detector. Banks ? Sure – where else would a bank robber go ?

  9. Another reason to keep it concealed. In my area, despite one of the most heavily armed populations in the US, only about 1% of the populace actually carries. If the one person carrying a gun in an establishment can be spotted and disarmed, it makes the bad guy’s job a lot safer.

  10. avatarDyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    Sometimes, it’s a gun.

    Some other times, maybe I’m really happy to see someone.

  11. avatarChad says:

    I am not talking about the rookie criminal here. But a seasoned, hardened, top of the food chain predator, looks for tells. You gave him all the “ammo” he needs to kill you or hurt you and take that gun from you, because he see’s it as something he can use of sell.

    Prisons are full of rookies who came out, professionals. They practice taking guns from each other, or at least the techniques.

    I don’t want anyone to know I have a gun, until I want them to know it. Your giving up the element of surprise, so you might as well just open carry if your legally allowed to. Result is the same.

  12. avatarOther Derek says:

    Since outlawing OC in AZ would require a change to the state Constitution, that is highly unlikely.

    If I’m OC and I want to go on a non-posted business like Chilis (both Chilis and Black Angus do NOT post as a matter of corporate policy), I cover my pistol by stretching my t-shirt over the holster. Satisfies the requirement.

    It is a Right, not a privilege.

    “I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!”–Barry Goldwater, my kind of conservative.

    One’s religion is also a personal and private matter. I would no sooner put a gag on people witnessing to other people on the street than not advocate for OC.

    The First, Second, Fourth, and Fifth are all inextricably intertwined.

    You have the most ironic name of anyone on this board when one considers the fawning and conciliatory way you advocate for your Rights.

    Sorry, hit the wrong reply button. My comment is directed at the ironically named poster, “Constitutional Right.”

  13. avatarDan A says:

    Well, in Oregon there’s no law against open carry or printing so unless you’re carrying in a place where you aren’t supposed to (which is pretty much just federal buildings), then no. It’s not a big deal and anyone who lives in a state with the same or similar laws as here should just take it easy and not make a fuss about it. Hell, you could open carry and most people STILL won’t notice (you wouldn’t believe the number of times I’ve had a gun OWB in plain sight and people wouldn’t notice until I pointed it out to them).

    • avatarBuuurr says:

      Yep. Me too. A lot of people (at least in the states I have been in a while – Arizona, Ohio, Oregon) just don’t care that you have the gun. They seldom even notice it. Elephant in the room? Where?

      I guess I should mention I am very happy with the state (Ohio) that I live in for that reason.

  14. avatarjwm says:

    well for me it’s about preservation. i live in alameda county, ca. i can’t get a permit, not because of any glitches on my record but that’s just the way it is here. on the occassions i feel it prudent to carry on the street i need to be real discreet or risk a ride in the back of a cruiser. sucks, but there it is.

  15. avatarSkyler says:

    Printing is not a big deal. Except that it’s against the law in Texas.

  16. avatarMike Taylor says:

    Wall flower. Ego-free entity. Seen without being remembered. Just another face in the crowd. The list goes on. The simple fact is concealed means concealed. There is only one way that a concealed weapon ever needs to be seen, and that is upon presentation to counter a threat, end of story.
    The poor bastard in Las Vegas (Erik Scott) was discovered and a cataclysmic snowball of stupidity mixed with tragedy was the result. It only takes one panicked individual to spark a maelstrom of ridiculous outcomes, not to mention bad press. We do not carry to prove a point, or to look like bad-asses in the eyes of anyone. We carry to avoid the grim possibility of being caught unarmed in a bad situation. Not turn a simple shopping trip INTO a bad (and potentially lethal) situation.
    Not to mention the raining shitstorm that would fall on all of us if there is a shoot-out between 2 CCW’s because of an unintentional presentation. That would make the headlines much faster than when a couple of New York’s finest mow down 9 people on the street with garden hose marksmanship…
    Let the hate mail begin.

    • avatarOther Derek says:

      Living in AZ and OCing every day, I think the “unintentional presentation” thing is one of the silliest, MSNBC-inspired things I have read in awhile.
      Thanks for the laugh!

      I carry any way I choose because it is my Constitutional Right to do so.

      The Vegas issue was exacerbated by the fact the person was carrying in a place that was clearly posted and rabidly anti-gun–Costco. Unlike shopping malls and movie theaters Costco has their bigoted eff-you signs clearly posted by the entrances. Still carries no weight of law until the person is asked to leave however.

      • avatarBuuurr says:

        Yep. Costco is a no go for me if I can help it. It is one of the few places in Ohio that state you can’t carry. Matter of fact here are the places I have encountered where carry is not wanted: Mr. Chicken. One Walmart that is on a property that is owned by an individual who allows no guns on any of his properties. The Post Office.

        Four years and those are the only places I have found.

      • avatarAPBTFan says:

        “Still carries no weight of law until the person is asked to leave however.”

        Yup. In AZ if you miss a “sheep only” sign at the door and the establishment happens to notice and asks you to leave you do just that with no worries.

      • avatarMike Taylor says:

        I don’t want you to think that I am in any way opposed to open or concealed carry in any form, for that is not the case. Where I live now there are laws in place that are selectively tolerated by the police institution that can and will mangle a perfectly good day. Open carry is allowed, as is concealed carry (with a permit), but the area that I call home is a tad bit hoplophobic. (Madison, Wisconsin)
        A while back, a few guys got together to have a burger at a local fast joint and an employee of the establishment got a bit freaked. They were all strapped and she figured that must be a sign of certain doom. The cops showed up and the argument ensued, leading to arrests and eventual lawsuits. The city of Madison settled out of court, but the wonderful PItA chief of police made it quite clear that laws are subjective (and apparently the population is composed of subjects). I just love Chief Noble Wray, a true hero for the common criminal. The lesson that I learned from that? Simple. If I want to make a statement, I will do it in writing and at the ballot box. I will not subject myself to unnecessary hassles by pushing the panic buttons of the people around me.
        When my son was born, I lived in the Sacramento area of California. You would be sorely mistaken to assume that I was ever unarmed when we were in public. I carried my Browning Hi-Power with me like a bad habit, and did so in violation of the law. I did not have celebrity status and it was next to impossible to get a CCW at that time. Keeping my full sized auto-loader under wraps meant that I needed to be keenly aware of printing and other such problems. That nervous training has lasted for quite a while now.
        When I carry now, I do so with all of the arcane little lessons I learned from those days gone by: Keep aware of what is going on around me, ensure that what I have is well hidden from common detection and do not go looking for trouble. The funny thing about that last part- unlike searching for lost socks, trouble is just too damned easy to find.
        As for the MSNBC crack, sorry, I must have missed that one. I have read too many of RF’s IGOTD posts and rue the day the subject matter revolves around 2 of our kind having it out over nothing.

    • avatarSteve says:

      “Garden hose marksmanship”! I love it. I’m going to steal this term. Thanks, Mike. No hate mail here. I agree.

  17. avatarRedBoggan says:

    “If I walk into a place where my gun is not welcome there damn well better be a sigh…”

    Wow, you must have pretty good hearing! :-)

  18. avatarMichael Christenbury says:

    Until recently in Florida it was a felony for your firearm to print or be accidentally exposed thankfully they changed the law. The only time open carry is allowed in this state is when hunting or fishing or when going to or from hunting or fishing, unfortunately manyof our law enforcement do not know the law and if your try this these days you will probably end up in jail unless you are actually out in the woods hunting, unlike 20 or so years ago when I used to stop at the store to get gas and snacks on my way to the woods with my handgun on one hip and my knife on the other. I have been carrying a full size 1911 concealed for more than 20 years and have not had any problem even when talking to law enforcement they had no clue that I was carrying.

    • avatarJeffD says:

      In Florida, you can also open carry when going to/from the range, camping, and hiking.

    • avatarSoccerchainsaw says:

      In NC the first words out of your mouth to the police officer you’re talking to is: “I’m a concealed carry permit holder and I’m currently armed.”

    • avatarAndy says:

      Michael,

      I currently open carry in Florida doing the fishing and shooting thing EVERY day and have been stopped by local, county and state LEO’s.

      On each encounter, I was sent on my way, still open carrying, as all of the officers knew the law and the one who didn’t looked it up on his computer and was glad that he learned something.

      Open carry in Florida while persuing these limited activities works and it works daily for me as I actually do shoot and/or fish every day!

      AD

  19. avatarEJ says:

    Nine out of the ten of the most common stores and shopping centers we visit have a uniformed police officer at the door.

    Whoa. Where do you live that you guys have police outside every store?

    To Kris: in my western state in most palces seeing a guy open carrying isn’t like seeing a guy in a bikini top. It’s just part of the landscape. I think this is a good illustration of how different attitudes are.

    That said, if you’re gonna carry concealed, conceal. Having the butt of a gun sticking out of your pocket around here would make you seen as 1) incompetent at CC, or 2) up to no good. Or both.

  20. avatarfelix says:

    My state allows open carry, love NC!!!! So it really doesnt matter, but i do try to cover up. But if you notice, oh well. Doesnt bother me one bit. Sometimes i open carry, and other times I conceal. It really depends on the neighborhood and where im headed. Most important thing is to CARRY, CARRY,CARRY!!!

    • avatarBuuurr says:

      Yep. That’s what I am trying to get at here. A lot of folk are so anal about printing. It is justified if you are in a state that has printing as a no-no but anywhere else it is just a paranoia in my opinion.

      I carry, carry, carry everywhere I can. I OC sometimes (parks, forests, rescue runs with my dog, up and down my street with my friends who do the same) and I CC other times. Most of the time it is covered and well covered. But in summer I usually let what is be. If the mag sticks out it sticks out. The places I frequent with my young daughter know me well enough and no one sees an issue with it. The important thing is to just carry and not let it stop you from doing so unless it is breaking the law. I think too many people just give in and not carry because they make too big a deal of it.

  21. avatarAharon says:

    I wonder if any people imagine it a cell phone?

  22. avatarKelly in GA says:

    Georgia allows either with a license. I usually CC, but the other day I saw a gentleman with an SP101 in OC in a highly liberal side of Atlanta. Nobody as much as flinched. I was shocked. So a couple days later, I tried it on a dip run. And of course, my (second) worst nightmare, a young looking DeKalb county police officer is inside the store. Nothing happened. I mean nothing. He didn’t notice, or if he did, he didn’t care. I guess its really just about local law and personal preference. That and most people today are so oblivious to everything going on around them they couldn’t spot a gun until it was under their nose. Weird. Really weird.

  23. avatarOldLawman says:

    I choose to make sure mine is concealed more as a tactical matter – I want the bad guy’s last thought to be that he ignored the middle-aged, average looking guy for too long. I also live in an area that is just crawling with all sorts of local/State/Federal LEOs, so I really don’t want any unnecessary attention, even though I have a permit.
    I have heard this described as the “gray man” (not a comment on my hair, but not dressing, or looking for any attention).

  24. avatarNorm Walker says:

    I have actually been pushing it a little bit the last few months to see if anyone notices me printing. So far I have not noticed any extra attention. Printing to me is only an issues in states like Texas where you can actually get in trouble for people noticing your gun and calling it in.

    NW

  25. avatarJose says:

    2012 Florida Statute on “Printing” ( Second sentence in (1)) and open carry:

    790.053 Open carrying of weapons.—
    (1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.
    (2) A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense:
    (a) A self-defense chemical spray.
    (b) A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.
    (3) Any person violating this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
    History.—s. 1, ch. 87-537; s. 173, ch. 91-224; s. 3, ch. 97-72; s. 1205, ch. 97-102; s. 3, ch. 2006-298; s. 1, ch. 2011-145.

    J.

  26. avatarHAVE GUN says:

    Where I live in Kansas, open carry is legal but nobody does that. Being a rural county, open carry would bring unwanted attention, and before the sunsets half the residents would have heard.

    I neither need nor what that attention so I got a CCH soon as I could. It seems in my situation, printing is like an earlier gentleman said, is like walking around with your fly open. No law aginst open flys (far as I know) or printing.

    Once last summer went fishing and the clothes I was wearing were to tight for conceal carry, so I OC’d. Wouldn’t you know if some smart azz farmer drives by, stops to talk with my partner but before he leaves wants to know if I couldn’t catch any fish, was I going to shoot them!

    Interesting thing about conceal carry licensing in Kansas. In urban areas there is a higher percentage of people who have CCH than in the rural counties. I suspect that is because in rural areas we just don’t have the same concern about crime, so a more relaxed attitude towards the need to carry.

    In this state only an approved Attorney General sign carries the weight of law. First offence is a $50 fine. Other than that guns are allowed virtually every place else.

  27. avatarJeremy says:

    Printing? I open carry in Kennesaw, Ga without comment from anyone. Once in a downtown retail store, the manager asked if i had a weapons permit, then thanked me and walked off.

    However, on a recent trip to Texas – i was informed that ANY visibility, including accidental, could be considered “brandishing” – so full concealment is the preferred method. I always had my Glock 27 IWB with a heavy Tshirt.

    Even in GA, I pull a shirt over my carry if i am going in an area where being armed is just being asked to be harassed (like the theater), and I just don’t shop anywhere that posts a sign – even if those signs are not enforceable by law (those businesses don’t deserve my money).

    Each state is different on how they regulate it. Personally – I’d say you folks with bad state laws… should move :)

  28. avatarBHirsh says:

    The big deal is that if printing is illegal in your locale, all it takes is one cop with a hard-on for citizens with guns for you to take the ride in the back of the cruiser.

    And that IS a big deal.

  29. avatarSteven says:

    Unfortunately, “printing” is a Darwin award waiting to happen. Remember Erik Scott?

    http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/cops-gun-down-man-for-legally-carrying-firearm/?cat_orig=diversions

    • avatarBuuurr says:

      I disagree. He was printing – fine. It was his arguing when being asked to leave that gave the police legal right to shoot him. He is now trespassing with a deadly weapon and causing a scene. Whether he was in the right or not arguing with a gun in an area that does not allow guns is not wise.

      I would agree with you if you had said ‘pride’ is a Darwin award waiting to happen.

  30. avatarBrian Jacobsen says:

    I’ve been carrying for just about two years now here in Indy and have not had problem one. I don’t even get funny looks in the places I would expect them (Trader Joe’s comes to mind).

    I tend to be a confident person, in most jobs I’ve done people would assume I was in charge though typically I wasn’t. I have to wonder if that might explain some of the disparity? I carry myslef with confidence and don’t expect to meet trouble and I don’t. Could it be that simple?

  31. avatarrevjen45 says:

    I CC with a shirt covering my sidearm (OWB @ 3 o’clock). OC is legal in WA State, so I don’t have to worry if the shirt rides up when I reach for something on the top shelf. I have no issues with people who OC, but I prefer to cover my Little Blue Friend.

  32. avatarministerial says:

    I feel I need to ask this: why in the world are all of you strapped all the time?

    Do you live in crappy neighborhoods?
    Are you small women who need to travel at night?
    Do you carry large amounts of cash?

    I have a CC permit, but I almost never use it. I’m 45, big enough to dissuade trouble, and don’t spend too much time in bad neighborhoods. When I do, I keep $100 handy to toss a mugger.

    Seems to me the potential downsides are just too great unless you have very good reasons for carrying (political statement might count if that’s your bag, sure.)

    I travel a lot, and I almost never wish I had my CC gun with me. Never, in fact. The only time recently I’ve really wished for a gun handy was when riding unawares through some seriously hairy poacher country in north-east NV, and it wasn’t a Glock 26 I was wishing for there. More like the scoped 7mm.

    Looking forward to some interesting replies.

    • avatarDerek Dauma (formerly Other Derek) says:

      Those who truly needed a gun and did not have a gun are not around to tell their stories.

      My gun stopped a kidnapping in the AZ Biltmore area. Not exactly a poor part of town.

      I used to work nights and live near 7th St and Indian School Rd. Some of you might remember a horrible helicopter crash a few years ago in Phoenix. The car chase that the 2 helis were covering when they went down went right in front of my house–you can see my (former) front yard and driveway in the video.

      Predators are given no quarter, nor do they deserve any. Earl Jones and I are of one mind on that subject, that’s for damn sure. I do not understand how anyone can feel empathy for a goblin, but that’s your (rhetorical) business not mine.

    • avatarBuuurr says:

      No, I don’t live in a crappy area. No, I am not a small woman. No, I don’t carry large amounts of cash.

      I will say that when I was confronted by someone who tried to kick in my door my gun under his chin was a great deterrent thanks to home carry. It happened in a second. As quick as that the safety of your home is gone (it is never there in my opinion) and taken back most easily IF you are always strapped.

      I feel the need to ask this: Why in the world are you not strapped all the time? You have the permit. You have the gun. Regret is a big thing to live with. Can you do it?

      • avatarministerial says:

        Why don’t I carry much? Math.

        On one side of the equation we have X: “chance of really needing a gun to protect oneself”

        On the other side of the equation we have Y.

        Y = A “chance of hurting oneself/gun turned on oneself in situation X” + B “chance of hurting oneself randomly” + C “chance of getting shot by trigger-happy cop/security guard, etc” + D “chance of being prosecuted for screwing up & forgetting somewhere a CC gun is illegal” + E “chance of being misprosecuted from brandishing, etc.” + F “chance of using gun in anger” + G “pain in the ass of carrying.”

        Now do I think sometimes X > Y? Of course. That & standing up for civil rights are why I have the permit.

        On the other hand, I think a lot of folks in the gun community overestimate X and underestimate some or all of A-G + any unknown unknown H-Z’s.

        Now this is all quite subjective, but certainly there’s quite a lot of confirmation bias for “X” on gun boards. It’s always good to keep a weather eye out for confirmation bias.

        • avatarBuuurr says:

          hah! Thanks for that. I didn’t really need the laugh but thanks all the same.

        • avatarDerek Dauma says:

          A=propaganda parroted by the Brady Bunch. Not zero but a number infinitely approaching it, or there would be news reports about it from the antigun biased MSM. So how much does a membership in Brady cost, anyway?

          B=all depends on you. Sorry you don’t have any self confidence, but for me that number, while not zero, is a number infinitely close to zero.

          C=can’t remember this happening in the state I live in. Number infinitely close to zero.

          D=I know the law and since there is a specific exemption for entering a posted place to check if it is a posted place, number infinitely close to zero.

          E=My state’s brandishing laws are very clear and very broad when it comes to lawful carry/DGU. Zero.

          F=zero. Sorry you seem to lack both self-confidence and self-control. Good on you for realizing that though.

          G=no pain for me at all. I have a reinforced gunbelt (Wilderness Tactical Instructor 1.5″ CSM) which makes my carry rig very stable even though my EDC pistol is a CZ 75B. Evidently your carry rig leaves a little to be desired. Try a dedicated gunbelt and a quality holster. FWIW, the gunbelt makes the rig stable moreso than the holster if you can only afford one or the other.

  33. avatarBuuurr says:

    “CarlosT says:

    September 8, 2012 at 02:32

    As far as I can tell, it comes from a sort of “if I were robbing a bank…” type of conjecture.

    I think the thought process is if the criminal is really, truly committed to following through with the crime, then he’d look for obstacles in his path and seek to eliminate them. You, as a person obviously carrying a gun, is one such obstacle, and therefore must be removed. Therefore, you will be shot first.

    Now, whether that has actually ever played out that way in real life is another question, but I’m pretty sure that’s what people are thinking when they raise that objection.”

    You have a good point and I see what you are saying. But in my opinion and what I have seen from my lax carrying there are very few people who even notice you have a gun. I would say that would be the same with the bank robber you mentioned who is more focused on yelling at people to get down, stopping that alarm from being sounded and for sure looking for that armed guard and not for me.

    That’s how I have come to see it. I think these folk are not as smart as you think and like anyone else can be surprised by something that they didn’t fit to the equation.

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